Sen. Kennedy on college admissions scandal: This is a culture of entitlement on steroids
College admissions process under scrutiny in wake of bribery scheme; Louisiana Sen. John Kennedy weighs in.
This is a rush transcript from "The Story," March 13, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
ED HENRY, HOST: All right. Actress Lori Loughlin, being released on $1 million bond after appearing at court just moments ago. To face charges that she paid exorbitant bribes to get her two daughters into college.
This as Fox News is learning tonight the school she allegedly faked their way into could be throwing them out. Good evening, everybody. I'm Ed Henry, in for Martha MacCallum and this is “The Story.”
The college admission scandal Loughlin and dozens of others were embroiled in now, serving as an indictment really on the country's entire higher ed. system. Supposing how far some may go to illegally and in many cases, legally give their kids an unfair advantage.
But some have also managed to make this an indictment of, believe it or not, President Trump. One writer for The Atlantic, essentially making the case this all happened because we have "alleged grifter that sits in the Oval Office." Well, that sounds like a new form of Trump derangement syndrome.
Speaking of the president, one of his biggest critics, Senator Elizabeth Warren, who's been under heavy fire for fraudulent claiming she's of Native American descent, ironically had this to say about people who commit fraud to get ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKA BRZEZINSKI, CO-HOST, MORNING JOE, MSNBC: How much sympathy would you have for these parents who are embroiled in this alleged cheating scandal.
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN, D-MASS.: Zero.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: Got it. So, you should not game the system to get ahead. Thank you, Senator. Just a minute, the always affable Senator John Kennedy weighs in on what Congress can and should do about all this mess. But first, our correspondent Jeff Paul is live outside the Los Angeles courthouse where Loughlin is facing those charges. Good evening, Jeff.
JEFF PAUL, CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Ed. Yes, Loughlin appeared before the judge wearing a white turtleneck and glasses. She stood there with her arms folded as she answered the judge's standard questions.
Now, while her bond was set at a million dollars, there are some travel restrictions in place for her. She can only travel within the continent of U.S. and to British Columbia where she is currently filming.
It's a very similar deal to what was set up for her husband. Fashion designer Mossimo Giannulli. Now, the couple is accused of paying a half a million dollars in bribes to get their two daughters in the USC. In addition to that institution, investigators say students were placed at schools like Yale, Georgetown, UCLA, Texas, and Stanford. And the news of the scandal has some students at those schools shaking their heads.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARISSA BERSH, STUDENT, STANFORD UNIVERSITY: I think there absolutely are victims, I think it's any student who deserve to get in, who worked really hard.
DEVIN HAGAN, STUDENT, STANFORD UNIVERSITY: Hard work from the south, not a great high school than my best came out here.
GINA SANCHEZ, STUDENT, STANFORD UNIVERSITY: I would like to see a more accurate representation of fairness within the admission's process as a whole.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL: Now in total, some 50 people including another, at least, one Hollywood star and some powerful CEOs, as well as coaches and test administrators are accused of participating in this alleged scandal according to federal investigators.
Some coaches who were allegedly accused in this have already either been fired or suspended. Now, as for the accused parents, as far as the punishment they could face, we spoke with a former prosecutor who tells us it all depends on what they give up to investigators if anything at all community service is an option. But federal prison is a real possibility.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TROY SLATEN, FORMER PROSECUTOR: I think the United States government, through the U.S. attorney, is definitely going to make an example out of the parents and everyone involved in this. This really strikes at the core of the integrity of the entire university system of the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL: As far as the kids, that former prosecutor we spoke with says it all depends on what they knew, but they could be expelled from those various institutions. As far as Loughlin goes her next court date is March 29th in Boston inside a federal court. Ed?
HENRY: Wow, unreal. Jeff Paul, live outside the courthouse. Thank you, Jeff. Here now live, Louisiana Senator John Kennedy, of course, a Republican. Good to have you come in, sir.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY, R-LA: Thank you, Ed.
HENRY: What's your initial reaction when you hear all about this mess?
KENNEDY: I'm not sure their words in English. This is some of the most odious, vile, repugnant, reprehensible conduct I've ever seen, or at least, in a long time.
I stayed up late last night, reading the indictment. It's quite long, it quotes liberally from the FBI wiretaps transcripts. Made me want to scream, made me want to heave. I don't know if you can scream and throw up at the same time. But that's how I felt.
HENRY: I hope you don't try to do that right now. But I can understand what was the detail or two that really jumped out of you?
KENNEDY: There say, a venture capitalist on the West Coast. He paid, at least, 50 grand to have somebody take the ACT test for his child. He went -- when the -- when the perpetrators were explaining the scheme to him, he laughed. And he said, "I love it, I love it."
Now, this was a gentleman, he's a venture capitalist.
HENRY: Yes.
KENNEDY: He holds himself out as the leading voice in Silicon Valley, of ethical investing. He and U2's Bono just raised about $2 billion. They're only going to invest in ethical companies.
HENRY: Yes, Senator, what --
(CROSSTALK)
KENNEDY: Give me a break, the hypocrisy is breathtaking. And the prosecutor you just had on talking about possibilities --
HENRY: Yes.
KENNEDY: I vote federal prison.
HENRY: So, in some cases, the detail that jumped out of me among others was that in some of these cases, they claim the kid had a learning disability. So, they could get that child in a private area where they can manipulate the tests change answers.
So, here they are taking advantage of the idea of hey, this kid's got a learning disability, when there are real kids with real learning disabilities who now are going to have people looking over their shoulder about whether they really have that learning disability, and that maybe they're cheating on the test, instead.
You think about all the students who worked hard and did it the right way and didn't get into these big-time schools.
KENNEDY: You know -- you know, for ordinary Americans like you and me, let me tell you what they're thinking and they tell me this every day. They say, "Kennedy, we get up every day, go to work, obey the law, trying to teach our kids morals. We want -- we -- you know, we try to do the right thing. But we look around and we see too many undeserving people at the top, cutting corners and getting bailouts. And too many undeserving people at the bottom getting handouts, and we're playing by the rules, and we get screwed every time.
HENRY: Well, Senator, speaking of getting screwed that I mentioned, I've mentioned this at the top. Atlantic magazine is actually sort of trying to pin this on President Trump. I want to read it quickly this article.
"But the chaos of the present moment has a way of making all of us potential marks. The logic of the con, the perversity of it is becoming normalized. And alleged grifter sits in the Oval Office, near a bust of Andrew Jackson and the nuclear codes." What do you think about folks try to blame this on President Trump?
KENNEDY: Someone needs to kill whoever wrote that article. That the voices he's hearing in his head aren't real. That is to try to turn this into Trump's fault is to say it's a bridge too far is a gross understand. It's absurd.
HENRY: Speaking of absurd, what do you think about --
(CROSSTALK)
KENNEDY: I mean, can I say -- can I say this.
HENRY: Yes.
KENNEDY: Let me tell you what we have here. This is -- this is a culture of entitlement on steroids. And I don't care how many movies you've made, I don't care how much money you've made. Right is still right, and wrong is still wrong.
And I want to thank the FBI, and I want to thank the Justice Department for prosecuting, and I hope they go medieval on these people.
HENRY: yes. Medieval on them. Well, Senator, as you know, President Trump is a candidate ran against elitist and the idea that some parts of the system were rigged. There is one of your other colleagues, one of many colleagues, I should say, on the Democratic side, running for president, Elizabeth Warren. Here's what she said today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRZEZINSKI: How much sympathy would you have for these parents who are embroiled in this alleged cheating scandal?
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN, D-MASS.: Zero.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: Senator, I thought your colleague had a little trouble with filling out forms herself.
KENNEDY: Well, all cheating. I don't want to personalize this with my colleague. But, all cheating. Well, they're tickly in college admissions, I mean it's wrong. Think about the hundreds of thousands of kids out there tonight who are studying hard, their mom and dad -- they don't have a lot of money, they don't have a lot of clout, they don't have a lot of pull. They're working their rear ends off because they believe in the American dream.
And then, you have these chuckleheads, like these parents come along and do this because they're entitled. They're smarter and more virtuous than the rest of us. So, they drink -- they drink goat's milk lattes. I mean, give me a break, this is -- this is why people are angry.
(CROSSTALK)
HENRY: So, Senator --
KENNEDY: And when say it again --
HENRY: Yes, go ahead.
KENNEDY: I vote --I vote federal prison.
HENRY: I've got less than 30 seconds you've covered a lot of ground.
KENNEDY: OK.
HENRY: What can Congress do about this? You said that this legal system should go medieval on them. Is there something Congress can do about this as well (INAUDIBLE)?
KENNEDY: Obviously, obviously, we need the whole hearings. But first thing we need to do is let the prosecutor do his job. And let justice run its course. But, the American people are going to be watching.
And I understand that this fashionable -- we don't want to punish nonviolent crime and all that. Your crime doesn't have to be nonviolent to be evil and this is evil.
HENRY: Well, Senator when it's all said and done, we're going to have to sit down, have a goat milk and latte, I hope.
KENNEDY: I don't drunk them.
HENRY: Senator John Kennedy, appreciate you coming in tonight.
President Trump orders Boeing 737 MAX planes grounded. Did he just stand up to what one of Washington's most powerful lobbying groups back there in the swamp? And what does this mean for you and your next flight?
A story exclusive next with the former secretary of transportation, there he is, Ray LaHood he's on deck
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT: All of those planes are grounded effective immediately. Pilots have been notified, airlines have been all notified, airlines are agreeing with this. The safety of the American people and all people is our paramount concern.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: President Trump right there, ordering the grounding of the aircraft fleet involved in Sunday's deadly crash in Ethiopia, the Boeing Max 737 8 and 9. That crash, of course, killed 157 people from 35 countries including eight Americans.
That move today runs counter to the decision by American Aviation officials just yesterday, when the FAA was saying there was "no basis" to ground the planes. And though Boeing says they are on board with the move expressing their continued confidence in the plane's safety, noting "we are supporting this proactive step out of an abundance, they say, of caution."
It is seen as a rebuke to one of Washington's most powerful lobbying arms. And here now exclusively tonight is Ray LaHood. He is a longtime member -- a Republican member of Congress whom we remember who crossed the aisle to serve as transportation secretary under then-President Obama. Mr. Secretary, I appreciate you being here.
RAY LAHOOD, FORMER SECRETARY OF TRANSPORTATION: Thank you, Ed, for inviting me.
HENRY: You said you were concerned about flying one of these planes a couple of days ago and yet the FAA was still saying 24 hours ago, all was well. Why were you concerned?
LAHOOD: Because while I was secretary, Ed, we had a similar situation with the Dreamliner where there are some lithium batteries in the hull of the planes and they were catching fire, and we grounded those planes. Boeing didn't like it. we put our FAA safety folks on it and the Boeing safety. They figured out what was wrong and everything turned out fine.
And when you have two air crashes like this and have so many people perish, there's something wrong, Ed, and these planes need to be looked at. And I really want to congratulate President Trump. I believe this was his decision.
I believe he decided that for the safety of the flying public, these planes needed to be grounded and then let the FAA safety officials and the Boeing safety officials work together to find out what's wrong. Is that technological problems, is that pilot error, is it something else, to give the flying public 100 percent assurance the planes are safe.
And so congratulations President Trump and thank you for doing this.
HENRY: Well, Mr. Secretary, you congratulate the President there. He did it seems stand up to Boeing in this case. As you know, look, they create a lot of jobs around the country, employed a lot of people, a major manufacturer in America. We certainly applaud that.
But as you know, they give out a lot of campaign money to Democrats and Republicans. They've got a big lobbying team. Were they -- is this what you think was going on? They were working behind the scenes because their stock was dropping and they didn't want to see these planes grounded.
LAHOOD: You know, I don't blame it on politics, Ed. I really -- I know the people at the FAA. These are career people. They care a lot about safety. They've spent their whole lives working on safety. They care about safe aviation. And I also know the people at Boeing. Many of the people at born are people who care about safety and the last thing they want or unsafe plane.
HENRY: But sir, what changed in 24 hours is you know, 24 hours ago you were on CNBC and elsewhere saying I'm concerned. These planes should be grounded. But the FAA, the career people that you say do care about safety -- I'm not I'm not second-guessing them but I'm raising the question of why yesterday were they saying there's no basis to ground them and then suddenly today OK, there's a basis.
LAHOOD: I want to give the credit to President Trump. Look, he owns -- he owns an airplane. He knows the importance of safety. If something like this were to happen with his plane -- at one time he tried to buy a bunch of planes ins and start a fleet of planes and I give him the credit on this, Ed, for recognizing that the safety of the flying public could be in jeopardy. And he didn't want that on his watch. So he make --
HENRY: And credit for that decision, you were absolutely right. But as you know, there's an Acting Administrator at the FAA tonight and he has not nominated a full-time administrator. Is that a mistake by this White House?
LAHOOD: You know, they have nominated somebody now. And actually the Acting Administrator is a career professional person --
HENRY: Yes. Who served under Obama. He's been there a long time.
LAHOOD: Right.
HENRY: But right it took this White House as you know a long time to put someone up and there hasn't been any movement. I know they blame that on the Senate Democrats. But it's -- he's been president for two years.
LAHOOD: Yes. Well, look, I'm glad they made the decision they did. I think people are feeling like the administration now takes safety as their highest priority and this investigation and grounding will go forward and we'll end up with the safest planes we can.
HENRY: All right, Mr. Secretary we certainly appreciate you coming in tonight and explaining all that.
LAHOOD: Thank you, Ed, very much.
HENRY: All right, meanwhile, the White House responds to the top story breaking at this hour in an exclusive interview next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We're having tremendous amounts of meth, cocaine, heroin, and ultra-lethal fentanyl. That's literally ultra-lethal, gets stronger. Illegal immigration provides a lucrative cash flow to put it mildly, to some of the most dangerous and ruthless criminal organizations on planet Earth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: President Trump working right there to take on drug traffickers and the horrific opioid crisis on a very busy news day in Washington ahead of that crucial vote in the Senate tomorrow on his national emergency declaration.
Earlier I spoke to Mercedes Schlapp, she of course is Assistant to the President and Senior Advisor for Strategic Communications.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: Talk about how critical this is. When the president says it's powerful fentanyl, is 30 to 50 times more powerful than heroin.
MERCEDES SCHLAPP, ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT TRUMP: there's no question that watching these numbers of overdoses in our communities continue to grow, is troubling especially when you have that a small bit of fentanyl can kill so many large numbers of people. And so that is one of the reasons why the president today met with law enforcement with our Border Patrol agents, with local sheriff's and also with the Department of Defense to talk about this issue of illicit drugs and how it's starting off in Mexico coming through the border.
And that not only includes at the point ports of entry but also between the ports of entry and ending up in communities like Illinois, like Alabama, all across the country, and it's at a point that we are at an emergency and as why the president continues to talk about this national emergency.
HENRY: So Mercedes that sounds like a strong case. Why is it not getting through to some of your fellow Republicans? Because the way we're hearing it, it sounds like there will be enough Republican senators tomorrow to vote to disapprove of the President's declaration of a national emergency despite all of the problems you're talking about at the border and he may have to issue his first-ever veto.
SCHLAPP: Right. And I have to tell you, Ed, and the President talked about this earlier, it's about unity. I mean, the Democrats stand very united on the issue of open borders and crime while the Republicans seem to splinter off in these votes making these arguments that many legal scholars have come out and said wait a second here, the president has the authority to do this. Congress, you gave the president the authority to do this and in essence, is allowed to declare a national emergency. I mean, we saw --
HENRY: So on that point though -- pardon me, but our viewers get frustrated because they hear all these cases you're making, the President makes almost every day on Twitter in his public remarks and yet you had the White House, the House, and the Senate for two years not as much of the wall as the president has wanted got built.
Now he declares this national emergency and it appears that despite the arguments you're making, enough Republicans are going to buck him on this that he's going to have to veto.
SCHLAPP: Yes, I mean, the president will veto it. I mean, it is clear that the president has made his case to declare this national emergency. It's been done 60 times before by former presidents unless important issues. Because what we're seeing right now is this emergency happening where in essence our Border Patrol agents are spending more time processing illegal aliens than they are focused on border security, on monitoring what's happening on the border.
HENRY: Real quick, I want to ask you about what went into the President's decision in that conversation with the head of Boeing today, the telephone call to ground all these planes.
SCHLAPP: Well, the President's consultation with Secretary Elaine Chao and our acting FAA Administrator made these decisions to ground the planes. This is based on new evidence, this is based on new information that we received. And so the president said let's ground them. This is pending further investigation.
And again, our focus is obviously this new data has come in. This data has been shared with other nations also we've been in contact with in these discussions. And we also have an FAA team down in Ethiopia to help with the investigation.
HENRY: very last question. Paul Manafort today faced his second sentencing in just a matter of days. It appeared to be the second straight time that it's a pretty light sentence. And for the second time a federal judge said basically there has not been proof of collusion. In this case, it was not -- charges of collusion we're not even brought. It wasn't tested in the courtroom. But does the White House see that as a victory?
SCHLAPP: You know, I think at this point it's what the President has said all along. There has been no wrongdoing. There has been no collusion. The original intent of the special counsel was that of focusing on collusion. What they ended up doing is you know, going after the member of the campaign and obviously, now he's going to jail for his actions on tax fraud and bank fraud etcetera, but it has nothing to do with the President.
HENRY: But is there embarrassment at the White House? Is there embarrassment? The President said he's a good man last week and all of that. This is somebody who's going away to jail for all of this fraud. I know it's not directly related to campaign but he was the President's chair. He was a campaign chair.
SCHLAPP: Well, again, I think the President feels bad for Paul Manafort. He said that earlier today. You know, at the end of the day, it's not connected with the president. And again, it further proves there's no wrongdoing and no collusion.
HENRY: All right, Mercedes Schlapp, we appreciate you joining us exclusively tonight.
SCHLAPP: Thank you for having me.
HENRY: Thanks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: So that leads us to -- up next is impeachment talk exposing another deep divide within the Democratic Party. That debate with our all-star panel is next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Speaker Pelosi said the impeaching Trump just isn't worth it. Do you agree with that?
Do you have a different opinion?
REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ, D-N.Y.: I happen to, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. AL GREEN, D-TX: This is a sad set of circumstances when we conclude that it's not worth it to impeach a bigoted president who is causing harm to society. And if I stand alone, I still stand.
And for those who question the Democratic Party and Democratic leadership, I don't speak for them. I don't want anybody to think I speak for the Democratic leadership. I do not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: House Democrats defying their leader and Speaker Nancy Pelosi to some extent. She says the president is not worth impeaching. It's the latest sign of a bit of the gap between Democratic leadership and the rank and file.
Here now our panel. Charlie Hurt, Fox News contributor and opinion editor for the Washington Times. Jonathan Swan, Axios political reporter, and Juan Williams, co-host of course, of The Five and Fox News political analyst.
Good evening, everyone.
CHARLIE HURT, CONTRIBUTOR: Good evening.
JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST & POLITICAL ANALYST: Hello.
HENRY: Jonathan, I want to start with you because, you know, there is a certain reality Democrats seem to be facing which is Al Green who we just play there a moment ago. He has been leading the effort on impeachment, Maxine Waters, and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. They grab the headlines they get the attention on cable news.
But this majority for Democrats was one in some of these Trump districts where they got to be a lot more careful.
JONATHAN SWAN, POLITICAL REPORTER, AXIOS: Yes, that's exactly the point. And so, we -- while it's a really interesting Democratic Party, you have the people who run leadership getting far less media attention than three or four very, very progressive numbers including a set of three freshmen, AOC, Omar, and Tlaib.
But you have almost two dozen new freshmen House Democrats who won in districts that President trump won in 2016. You don't see so much of them, because frankly, for the last few weeks, a lot of them are feeling very uneasy about the early days of this new House majority. It's been a very distracted majority.
Last week they are supposed to be spending the week talking about this big sweeping anticorruption bill, instead the week was sort of anti-Semitism week discussing Representative Omar --
(CROSSTALK)
HENRY: Never good when it's anti-Semitism week, Juan.
WILLIAMS: Well, I mean, the point is well taken. Jonathan is on target here. But remember, Pelosi held a caucus together at that juncture. If one or two, especially if any of the Jewish Democrats had pulled away, we would have gone ballistic here. I mean, we would have talked about the division in the Democratic ranks.
Right now, you have Pelosi, her number two Steny Hoyer, number three Jim Clyburn all saying the same thing, singing from the same hymnal.
HENRY: Sure.
WILLIAMS: Right now, it's premature. And the Quinnipiac poll out has at 59 percent of Americans opposed to beginning impeachment. So, the Democratic leadership is in touch not only with those moderate Democrats from districts that Trump won, but in touch with the American people this juncture.
HENRY: Well, but Charlie, I see you smiling. Are those Democratic leaders in line with the hard core left of the Democratic Party who seems to want this president out?
HURT: Exactly. That is where the problem is. And obviously, Juan is exactly right. The leadership is in lockstep with one another about seeing what a disaster it would be to pursue impeachment.
But what Nancy Pelosi says Trump is not just worth it. Are you kidding me? After two years of everything that we've been told. It is not that Trump isn't worth it. It's that they've been lying all this time, and all of the stuff that they've been ginning up they've been lying to their own supporters about Trump and Russia and Putin and somebody being somebody's puppets and all this nonsense.
We spent $25 million in this political investigation trying to get to the bottom of this and we're basically finding out what most normal people sort of assumed at the beginning which is that this is nonsense.
And, yes, the leadership is in step with one another.
HENRY: Yes.
HURT: But they're not in step with their supporters and they're not in step with a lot of the ranking file Democrats.
HENRY: Sure. Well, I want Jonathan and Juan to get a chance to weigh in on that, but something else happened today. And it was Paul Manafort was back in the courtroom for the second time in about a week, was sentenced pretty light again compared to what a lot of people were expecting. And his attorney had something interesting to say after.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEVIN DOWNING, PAUL MANAFORT'S ATTORNEY: Two courts have ruled no evidence of any collusion with any Russians.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: You hear a liar right there, Jonathan, but he is right that in last week's courtroom the federal judge specifically said there's no proof of collusion. This judge tis to be clear was more measured and said look, collusion was simply not tested in the courtroom by the special counsel, Jonathan. So, where are we?
SWAN: Well, where we are, is Paul Manafort was convicted of a number of crimes including money laundering, bank fraud, now not disclosing his foreign lobbying. And yes, you're right, the sentence is fairly light. But it's not an aberrant sentence. I mean, white-collar criminals get light sentences in this country.
And actually, one of the failures of the Obama Justice Department and they admit this, was not going after, not prosecuting white-collar criminals, no one went to jail after the financial crisis. And this is a continuation of a trend.
So, actually, Manafort is doing worse than a lot of white-collar criminals in this country have done. They have gotten off with far lighter sentences than Paul Manafort.
HENRY: Juan, Mollie Hemingway had an interesting tweet. She said in reacting to a Washington Post analysis of no collusion. Shorter version there is no Russian collusion here which was how the special counsel was sold to the American people.
But please ignore how much we harassed skeptics of the Russia collusion narrative and you must not - all caps - mentioned that there is no Russian inclusion here." Juan, will you say tonight there is no Russian collusion?
WILLIAMS: No, we don't know. I'm waiting on the Manafort report is where we are.
(CROSSTALK)
HENRY: How many years we're going to go?
WILLIAMS: Well, how long did we go in terms of other special counsel investigations, five years, seven years? That's not -- but I don't think this is going to happen. I think everybody -- I think everybody here is pretty informed that they think it's coming soon. We just don't know how soon.
(CROSSTALK)
HENRY: The Mueller report you're saying.
WILLIAMS: Yes. But I will say this, that I don't think that -- I think Mollie Hemingway's tweet is a little bit off because clearly, the mandate that Mueller had was to look into Russian interference, not Russian specifically collusion.
HENRY: Hang on.
WILLIAMS: If there is a possibility of collusion, he should discover it.
HENRY: Well --
WILLIAMS: But what the Central Intelligence Agency and other intelligence agencies have said is that the Russians interfered to help Donald Trump. There is no argument about that.
HENRY: Well, Adam Schiff seems to be selling something much different, Charlie.
HURT: Yes, indeed. Among the many things I love about you, Juan, is you are very patient and you're going to wait -- you're going to wait till the very, very end to get to the bottom of any last things about Russia.
But look, the bottom line is, you know, and I think it's great to go after these white-collar criminals and throw them in jail for tax evasion or whatever. But the bottom line is that he went after him because he got involved in politics.
HENRY: Yes.
HURT: And had he never gotten involved in politics, had he never worked for Donald Trump --
HENRY: Sure.
HURT: -- Paul Manafort never would face all of this and that while I have no sympathy for Paul Manafort --
HENRY: Sure.
HURT: -- that's a very troubling thing in a free democracy.
HENRY: Jonathan, in less than 30 seconds. You are good at ferreting out these scoops. The Daily Beast says that there might be two Mueller reports. That there is one we'll see in public that will likely say no collusion, but that there could be a second one focus on counter intelligence and maybe kept under wraps. Do you know anything about that?
SWAN: I wish I could find that in the plans of Bob Mueller. But I'll tell you what. They haven't leaked to any of any my competitors and they haven't leaked to us. And I'm glad that I haven't written the Mueller report, it will come out on x day because I'd be humiliated right now.
HURT: Or that Trump is already been indicted which Politico I think reported maybe three or four or five times.
HENRY: All right. Others have not been as wise as Jonathan.
HURT: Exactly.
HENRY: Juan, Charlie, I appreciate you all coming in.
SWAN: Thanks.
WILLIANS: Way to go.
HENRY: All right. We are getting breaking news right now on Beto O'Rourke's decision to run for president. Is he in or out? That is straight ahead.
Plus, California's governor suspends the death penalty sparking outrage among those who have suffered at the hands of some brutal criminals. Judges Andrew Napolitano is here live, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HENRY: Democratic Governor Gavin Newsom out in California using an executive order to put a moratorium on the death penalty there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM, D-CALIF.: We were laying claim to having the largest death row in the western hemisphere. I think we're better than this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: But tonight, critics, including President Trump are blasting that controversial move, saying it gives serial killers and child murderers reprieve along with other high-profile death row inmates like Scott Peterson. Remember, his trial for killing his wife Laci drew national attention.
Here now, Judge Andrew Napolitano, Fox News senior judicial analyst. I'm glad to see you in the person.
(CROSSTALK)
ANDREW NAPOLITANO, SENIOR JUDICIAL ANALYST: A pleasure to be with you my dear friend, usually through the monitor.
HENRY: Judge, what to say about this?
NAPOLITANO: The governor has the authority under the California Constitution, even a referendum to abolish the death penalty was defeated. He has the authority to pardon any person or commute any sentence just like the president of United States has with respect to federal crimes.
HENRY: But as you know, when the president acts unilaterally Gavin Newson and other Democrats say he thinks he is a dictator --
NAPOLITANO: Yes.
HENRY: -- he is out of control.
NAPOLITANO: Yes.
HENRY: And here it looks like Gavin Newsom is doing what he said the president --
(CROSSTALK)
NAPOLITANO: He is doing it because he said he was going to do it. He is an opponent of the death penalty. Interestingly, we talked about this during the break. The former attorney general of the State of California vigorously defended the death penalty.
(CROSSTALK)
HENRY: Who would that be?
NAPOLITANO: Kamala Harris. Now support for president because she is running for president --
HENRY: Exactly.
NAPOLITANO: -- and that he wants the progressive votes in the Democratic primary.
HENRY: Let's see -- let's listen to the senator from California.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NEWSON: There was a National Academy of Science report that came out that estimates one out of every 25 people on death row is innocent. If that's the case, that means if we move forward executing 737 people in California, we will have executed roughly 30 people that are innocent. I can't sign my name to that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: So that's the governor. Senator Kamala Harris said "as a career law enforcement official I have oppose the death penalty because it is immoral, discriminatory, ineffective and a gross misuse of taxpayer dollars."
NAPOLITANO: Right. So, she may have defended it nevertheless because she was the chief law enforcement officer of California. I give her -- I give her credit for that. I know what it's like to have to follow a law that you find personally repellent because you're took an oath to uphold the law.
You know, this is an area, I'm smiling because you probably don't know what I'm about to say, where progressives and libertarians agree. I condemn the death penalty. So, I rejoice. Probably the only time I've only agreed with Gavin Newson on anything. I rejoice in this as well. I know the president - - the president is fuming --
(CROSSTALK)
HENRY: Yes. Well, listen what the president said. He said that he's "Defying the voters, the governor of California will halt all death penalty executions of 737 stone cold killers. Friends and families of the always forgotten victims are not thrilled and neither am I."
What about the --
(CROSSTALK)
NAPOLITANO: This plays very well to his base and it plays very well to the large community that's in both political parties that believes that the death penalty brings closure for the victims. I understand that emotional, that emotional part.
HENRY: And the president is planning to run in 2020 on law and order.
NAPOLITANO: Yes.
HENRY: The idea that folks like Gavin Newsom has sanctuary cities, a sanctuary state when illegal immigrants come across the border from Mexico and killed police officers and innocent people.
NAPOLITANO: What are we doing in California succeeds from the union?
HENRY: Well, you know, you're laughing and there are people who think that might happen someday.
NAPOLITANO: Yes. I don't think it's going to happen. I think the civil war ended that the succession debate but it is a very, very different place. Does he win votes by doing this? Not if you look at that referendum.
HENRY: Right.
NAPOLITANO: The last time I was up it was 56, 57 percent --
(CROSSTALK)
HENRY: Because voters in California didn't want him to go this way.
NAPOLITANO: -- wanted the death penalty.
HENRY: So, does this play right into the president's hands --
NAPOLITANO: Yes, it does.
HENRY: -- in 2020?
NAPOLITANO: Yes, it does. He's I'm sure going to write off the state of California, but he can make California and Gavin Newsom just like he will here in New York with Andrew Cuomo, a punching bag. And he will probably do that --
(CROSSTALK)
HENRY: And say whether it's immigration, whether it's abortion, whether it's the death penalty that Democrats are out of the mainstream? That's going to be his case.
NAPOLITANO: That will be his argument and this will be a basis for that argument.
HENRY: Judge Napolitano, I appreciate you coming in.
NAPOLITANO: You're so good in person, Ed Henry.
HENRY: Great to be with you.
All right. This is a Fox News alert. The cover of Vanity Fair's April issue has just been revealed that's got some news. Beto O'Rourke posing like a cowboy under the quote, "I was born to run." Quoting Bruce there.
Is this some sort of announcement? Well, the man who would know, he's from the great state of Texas, Karl Rove. Is this a dream come true for him? He's got the white board, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FMR. REP. BETO O'ROURKE, D-TX: I will not be a candidate for president in 2020.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks.
O'ROURKE: I think it's as definitive as those sentences get.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: Well, it seems like a lot has changed in just a couple of months. Former Texas Congressman Beto O'Rourke now telling Vanity Fair, quote, "Man, I'm just born to be in it and want to do everything I humanly can for this country at this moment."
And in fact, there's a report breaking out of Texas tonight that Beto has a big announcement plan for first thing tomorrow morning. I want to be clear that Fox News has not been able to independently confirm that report.
But while we await the news, let's bring on our old friend, Karl Rove, former deputy chief of staff to President George W. Bush and Fox News contributor down there in Texas. Good to see you, Karl.
KARL ROVE, CONTRIBUTOR: Great to see you.
HENRY: What do you make of Beto O'Rourke in his machinations here?
ROVE: Well, I think it is interesting that he's essentially made a pro- forma announcement of his presidential candidacy in a magazine with the name Vanity in its title. That "Man, I'm just born to be in it" said by Robert Francis O'Rourke.
I mean, talk about a guy, the guy served a couple terms on the city council of El Paso and three unmemorable terms in the U.S. Congress, but man, I've just been born to be in it. It's pretty extraordinary article. I thought a very revealing, some of it good, some of it not so good. But I thought it was an interesting article.
Starting with a fact that he said, you know, "I don't ever prepare a speech," which is probably why he went out and said things I can't think of anything more American than taking a knee, and law enforcement is the new Jim Crow-ism.
And in June of 1929 -- 2018, he endorsed impeaching President Trump. I mean, this is a guy who just sort of says what he's got in his brain at that moment --
(CROSSTALK)
HENRY: Well, Karl, on that point --
ROVE: -- and it's reckless.
HENRY: Well, on that point, when the president was down in El Paso recently, didn't Beto O'Rourke say something to the effect of I want to take down --
(CROSSTALK)
ROVE: Tear down the fence.
HENRY: -- tear down the wall that's there.
ROVE: Yes. And look, you know, go interview people in El Paso and see if they want to have the fence taken down so that people can walk out of a neighborhood in Mexico, walk -- weighed across a 2-foot deep Rio Grande river and walk into a U.S. neighborhood and not have to go through a border crossing.
You know, that is just absolutely nutty. But that's the way the guy he is. Is he just sort of whatever he's thinking? Look, he went around in 2017 in 2018 and visited every one of the state, 254 counties.
Now he's not the first candidate to do that but he's the first candidate to go to those counties and dropped the f-bomb routinely in speeches in front of people who generally not only are active Democrats but go to the first church of Jacksonville on Sunday or the first Baptist church of Friona on Sunday. I mean, it just, it was really remarkable.
HENRY: And he lost the State of Texas as you know. It was close against Ted Cruz --
ROVE: Right.
HENRY: -- but he still lost. And you know how important images can be in politics. You mentioned this Vanity Fair cover. I want to compare it to Ronald Reagan on the cover of a magazine. You see him there on the cover of Time man of the year.
Now maybe Beto O'Rourke is trying to play to millennials and have this rugged look but on the cover of a magazine that is you say, Karl, has a Vanity in the title, I guess it sort jumps out of me, nothing screams middle America, forgotten man than the cover of Vanity Fair magazine, a New York magazine.
ROVE: Yes. Well, and look, look at his backgrounds. I mean, he sort of went to two elite schools, Woodberry farms -- Woodberry Forest, excuse me. And then Columbia, and then sort of went out and did a grunge band while he was trying to find himself.
So, you know, and again, a lackluster career. Having said that, the article has four or five points that I think indicate that he is a smart operator.
For example, he said you can hide who you are. And look, he's got a certain amount of charisma.
HENRY: Yes.
ROVE: And we saw that during the campaign. He said that he found it more invigorating to be for what you're for than to be against something. And again, I think that's going to be a big edge if he can pull it off --
HENRY: Sure.
ROVE: -- in this Democratic primary. He's a master of social media. I mean, he's got people who follow -- I mean, there were how many people who watched him get his teeth cleaned for God's sakes?
HENRY: Some people were turned off.
ROVE: yes. Well, 80 million -- he got $80 million in a race for the Senate.
HENRY: Yes.
ROVE: The question is going to be how many of those people stick with him in a presidential contra -- contest.
(CROSSTALK)
HENRY: We got his teeth on camera right now. we got his teeth on the monitor.
ROVE: Yes. There we go. There we go. Please, thank you. I'm going to be -- well, I'm going to be up all night remembering that scene.
HENRY: Karl, we --
(CROSSTALK)
ROVE: Every one of us wants to go to the dentist, don't we?
HENRY: I got one minute, Karl. We've laid out some of the problems he faced, you also mentioned in fairness some of the good things, the charisma, maybe the connection, the money raising.
But what about Joe Biden? Because I find it striking that Beto after saying I'm not running appears to be getting in before the former vice president and, by the way, some Obama veterans like David Plouffe and Paul (Inaudible) and others operatives seem to be on board with Beto and not waiting for the former vice president. What does that tell us?
ROVE: Well, I'm not certain it says anything about Biden per se. Biden doesn't need to get in early but he gets to when he gets in and I suspect he will get in, he needs to get in strong with no early mistakes.
Because look, everybody knows who he is. In the 30 polls that have been run since January, in both national polls and state polls, he's been behind in one, New Hampshire. And tied one in New Hampshire --
HENRY: OK.
ROVE: -- and ahead of the field on the rest. So, if he gets in, he better makes sure that he's ready to get in and has a strong start.
HENRY: Nobody breaks it down better than Karl Rove. We appreciate you being here on this night as we get this breaking news.
ROVE: Thanks, Ed.
HENRY: Thank you, sir. We expect an announcement from Beto O'Rourke tomorrow. And we'll be all over it because that is “The Story” on this Wednesday night. But I will see you right back here tomorrow night at 7 p.m. Eastern. Our friend Tucker Carlson, he's up next.
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