This is a rush transcript from “Sunday Morning Futures," August 16, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MARIA BARTIROMO, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Good Sunday morning, everyone. Thanks so much for joining us. I'm Maria Bartiromo.
Straight ahead right here on "Sunday Morning Futures": It was a monumental week for the Trump administration, with the U.S. brokering the first Middle East peace deal in 26 years, between Israel and the United Arab Emirates.
Coming up, one of the agreement's lead architects, Jared Kushner, is here to tell us why the president's peace plan could change the course of history, this as the next phase of the 2020 presidential race kicks off tomorrow.
It is convention season. Day one of the Democratic National Convention begins tomorrow. The Republicans will get their turn the following week, both conventions happening virtually because of the coronavirus crisis.
I spoke exclusively with President Trump this week about his second-term agenda heading into that convention -- that interview straight ahead.
We will also talk to the man who helped lead the Trump campaign to victory in 2016. Steve Bannon is here with his election predictions ahead of convention season.
In the middle of it all, breaking news this morning in John Durham's criminal probe, with ex-FBI attorney Kevin Clinesmith expected to plead guilty to falsifying a document in the Russia investigation.
DNI John Ratcliffe flagged this criminality right here back in December last year.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN RATCLIFFE, U.S. DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: What you have are FBI lawyers literally changing evidence to make false representations to the court to continue this counterintelligence investigation against the president.
So it details -- now, everyone is entitled to a presumption of innocence. The Democrats never want to give one to Donald Trump. But the inspector general's findings really outline what is criminal activity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BARTIROMO: Coming up, Wisconsin Senator Ron Johnson is here to break down -- with breaking news on his committee's investigation into Obama era corruption, and the evidence he says should disqualify Joe Biden from being president.
Plus, Steve Schrage is back with us this morning with more about the 2016 conference he introduced Carter Page to Stefan Halper, subsequently ensnaring him in the Russiagate scandal.
All that and a lot more right here, right now on "Sunday Morning Futures."
And our thoughts are with the president this morning and his family, following the passing of President Trump's younger brother, Robert Trump, yesterday. He was 71 years old.
President Trump visited him in a New York City hospital on Friday, before traveling to Bedminster, New Jersey, for an event.
His senior adviser and son-in-law Jared Kushner is there with him this weekend, and he joins me now.
Jared, our condolences to you and family.
JARED KUSHNER, SENIOR PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: Thank you.
BARTIROMO: I want to discuss this week's historic peace deal between Israel and the UAE.
But, first, how are you doing? How is the president doing?
KUSHNER: Thank you very much, Maria. The president is doing well.
I was with him last night and the family when he got the unfortunate news. He loved his brother very much. It's obviously a very difficult time for him in that regard.
But, again, he loved his brother. He was happy he got a chance to see him. And they had a great relationship and many good memories together. So, hopefully, he'll continue to do great things and make his brother proud.
BARTIROMO: Jared, I want to talk about this historic peace deal between Israel and the UAE, which, of course, you were so critical in putting together.
Tell me the most important parts of this deal, as you see it today.
KUSHNER: So, this deal is really the culmination of three-and-a-half years of incredible diplomacy by President Trump.
President Trump started his administration with his first foreign trip, where he went to Riyadh, where addressed the 54 Muslim nations. Then he went to Israel, where he met with the Jewish leaders. And then he went to Rome, where he met with the pope and other leaders.
And so President Trump has set out a course to really change the Middle East and to try to bring more peace to the world. This was a great culmination of it. And there's a lot of steps along the way.
We hosted a conference in Warsaw where we brought the Middle East closer together. We hosted a conference in Bahrain where we brought everyone together.
And, you know, even the president's steps that he took which were widely criticized in the foreign policy world, like moving the embassy to Jerusalem, was a very critical step. That showed people in the region that, number one, President Trump, unlike past politicians, keeps his promises. And he won't be bullied out of doing things that he thinks is right.
And that strength and courage of conviction allowed him to build very strong relationships with our regional allies that had previously been forsaken. And that confidence that they both had in him allowed them to take this historic step forward. And I'll also say that one of the other critical steps along the way was President Trump getting out of the disastrous Iran deal.
That deal sent $150 billion to the largest state sponsor of terrorism, one of the worst deals perhaps in history. And President Trump's leadership has greatly constrained the reach of a big menace in the region.
BARTIROMO: Yes, I think you make a lot of good points.
And all of these efforts for the last three-and-a-half years have yielded true impact and success. I feel like the idea of peace in the Middle East has been going on decades, but there was a relationship in place between you and Bibi Netanyahu, the president and Bibi Netanyahu.
Was that really the trigger that allowed the United Arab Emirates and its leadership in Abu Dhabi to say, now is the time to actually listen and to try to come to the middle? I think Netanyahu giving up the settlements and putting a pause to that in the West Bank is critical.
Tell me how your personal relationships, the president's relationships really got this done.
KUSHNER: Right.
So, relationships are one thing. And, obviously, you have to be able to have trust and know that you can have freewheeling discussions. We didn't come to the region to lecture people. We came to listen to people and then to understand what were their best interests and then find commonality.
When President Trump moved the embassy to Jerusalem, a lot of people criticized and says, well, he didn't ask for anything in return. And President Trump's point of view on that was that, first of all, you don't have to get something for keeping your promise. You shouldn't be getting something for doing the right thing. You should just do the right thing.
But what he got out of that, which very few foreign policy experts saw, was he got the trust of the Israeli people and he got the trust of Israel. It showed that he was doing things for the right reasons and that trust has enabled him to get Israel to make some tougher decisions that they wouldn't have made otherwise, perhaps under a different administration.
And, obviously, with the United Arab Emirates, they felt very betrayed by America with the past administration. The Iran deal was a terrible betrayal of the region, and American leadership in the region had really pulled back.
If you think about America's foreign policy interests in the Middle East, previously it was about energy. And under President Trump's leadership, America is now energy-independent as a country, so that has greatly reduced our dependence on the Middle East, which is critical.
Americans don't want to have too much war there. The past administrations have lost, you know, trillions of dollars, and too many soldiers in the Middle East. And, you know, bringing people together and creating peace, like President Trump was able to do here, greatly reduces our need to have troops in the region.
And then, finally, a big threat to us and to the whole region is radical extremism. And President Trump, on his first trip to Saudi Arabia, the custodian of the two holy sites, was able to create agreements amongst the Arab world to do a counterterror finance center, where now, over the last three-and-a-half years, we've seen a significantly less amount of money going to terror organizations, and then a counterextremism center, where we're fighting the long-term online battle against extremism online.
President Trump also was able to destroy the territorial caliphate of ISIS and kill their leader. And that also is a -- creates a lot more stability in the region.
So, it has really been through his actions that he has earned the trust, not just of these two leaders, but of everyone else in the region. And people know that they may not always like every decision he takes, but he's going to do it from a position of strength. And he's the first leader who has really moved peace around in the region.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
KUSHNER: And, obviously, this is the first peace agreement in the last 26. So it's an amazing breakthrough and accomplishment that only President Trump, the deal-maker president, could have done.
BARTIROMO: Well, you mentioned all of the strategies that the United States has had in the Middle East for years. And it is energy. You've got this military -- huge military footprint, based on all of the wars that we've had.
And then, of course, the biggest threat is extremism. This sort of speaks to all of that.
But I want to ask you what this means going forward, because, in an interview last week, you suggested that this is the beginning of something broader. So, number one is, was MBS, the head of Saudi Arabia, consulted on this?
Would Saudi -- would the Saudis be next in terms of recognizing Israel? And what else do you see happening as a result of this throughout the Middle East?
KUSHNER: So, part of the trust that we've built with all the leaders is that we don't disclose publicly a lot of the discussions that happen privately.
People are actually quite amazed that this deal didn't leak out. It really -- the news broke with the president's tweet, and that's a great thing.
This really is a paradigm shift. And what President Trump has tried to do for the last three years is, he recognized that a lot of the approaches taken in the Middle East in the previous administrations just didn't work and weren't serving America's interests.
President Trump is an American-first president. He always is putting the interests of Americans first. And he tried to take an America-first approach here.
And what he did was, he tried to align the different countries in the region around their common interests, as opposed to focusing on historic grievances. And, again, over the last three-and-a-half years, people were saying that President Trump's actions would lead to another world war, that they wouldn't be successful.
And it was because he was doing policies that were based on common sense, not based on traditional diplomatic approaches.
BARTIROMO: Right.
KUSHNER: And, obviously, this is an amazing fruit that has been born from those efforts.
But I will say that, going forward, this shows people that things are possible. I believe that many people had grown hopeless in the Middle East because they've just seen years and years of failure, and they didn't believe that things could change. And so the problems became very fixed.
But, one by one, piece by piece, President Trump has slaughtered a lot of the sacred cows. He has used some blunt-force instruments. But he has taken out a lot of the problems that existed and held the region back for years.
And if you look at the younger generation, whether you're Israeli or Saudi or Emirati, they want to have better lives.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
KUSHNER: And in order to do that, they need to have a secure environment. They need to be free of terror, free of the radicalizers. And they need to have economic opportunity, so that they can feel like their children can have a better life than they have.
BARTIROMO: So does this -- should we believe that this could be the beginning of an affront -- or a continuation of a front against Iran?
At some point, perhaps Hezbollah becomes less important and not running things in that part of the world. And what about China? Because, Jared, you really have been critical to the president's foreign policy in a number of areas.
You helped lead in terms of the biggest trade deal ever, Mexico and Canada. You were behind the deal with China phase one. You did an OPEC deal. You also did criminal justice reform. Of course you also did leadership on the wall. Where are we on that?
And I know that China has a lot of business with the UAE. You know, the UAE sells almost all of its oil to China. Are we going to get to a position where they're going to have to choose, the U.S. or China, given the fact that there's such tension between the two countries now?
I know there's a lot there, but give us your sense on the impact on Iran and China. And then let's end off with the wall, because I know our audience is interested in hearing where we are on that.
KUSHNER: Absolutely.
So, I would say that, before President Trump came in, the direction was very clear. Most of the countries in the Middle East were heading towards China, because America had totally given up its leadership role in the region and had betrayed all of its allies by doing the dangerous Iran deal that gave them a glide path to a nuclear weapon and empowered them to cause more instability throughout the region.
This is a big sign that people in the region want to be with America long- term. We just need to be a consistent and strong leader in terms of bringing people together around common interests. The president's Iran strategy has been very simple, which is that he thought the deal that was made previously was the worst deal, perhaps, in history.
You had a deal that was signed where you sent them a couple of billion dollars in cash, $150 billion total, gave them a glide path to a nuclear weapon. And the day they signed it, they weren't saying, thank you, America.
BARTIROMO: Right.
KUSHNER: They were in the streets saying, death to America, death to Israel, and then trying to divide the Middle East.
So that was a big problem. And President Trump has brought people back into the orbit. He has been able to accomplish this historic breakthrough. And I do think that, you know, for the last couple of years, perhaps I've been the only optimistic person about the Middle East, but I think, after this deal, everyone else is believing that so many things could be possible, and that we could put all differences aside and focus on new shared opportunities.
And then, with regards to the wall, that's moving incredibly fast. That was a project that President Trump promised during his last election. The border right now is more secure than ever before, which is critical in the age of coronavirus, in terms of stopping illegal drugs, human trafficking, and illegal smuggling.
BARTIROMO: Right.
KUSHNER: And we have about 300 miles of the wall that will be completed.
And we are on pace right now to surpass our goal of 450 miles by the end of the year. And the Border Patrol is thrilled. They are, I believe, going to be endorsing the president. And they believe that every mile of wall makes their operations more efficient because it's less manpower they have to spread out over -- over fewer amount of unobtruded crossing potential areas.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
Well, it makes a lot of sense. I totally understand.
Jared, it's great to have you this morning. Thanks very much, sir. Congratulations on a lot happening this morning...
KUSHNER: Thank you, Maria. It's great to be with you.
BARTIROMO: ... in the Trump administration.
KUSHNER: Thank you so much.
BARTIROMO: You too. We'll see you soon, sir.
We will be right back. We will talk with Steve Bannon ahead of convention season. Stay with us.
Plus, we will hear from the president.
Back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BARTIROMO: Welcome back.
Congress is now in recess this morning, after lawmakers failed to reach a deal on economic relief from millions of Americans hurt by the coronavirus pandemic.
Now, the sticking points, money to cities and states, as well as money to the post office to enable mail-in ballots, something President Trump warns could lead to voter fraud in November.
I talked about this and his concerns with President Trump last week during our exclusive interview on "Mornings With Maria" on FOX Business.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They want $3.5 trillion -- billion for the mail-in votes, OK, universal mail-in ballots, $3.5 trillion.
They want $25 billion -- billion -- for the post office. Now, they need that money in order to have the post office work, so it can take all of these millions and millions of ballots.
Now, in the meantime, they aren't getting there. By the way, those are just two items. But if they don't get those two items, that means you can't have universal mail-in voting, because they're not equipped to have it.
And this is all over. I can give you...
BARTIROMO: So, this is what's holding it up? They want...
TRUMP: No, no, no. That's only one aspect of it.
BARTIROMO: So, Mr. President, this is what's holding up money for the American people? They want mail-in votings and they want money for the post office.
This is one of the sticking points that's holding back stimulus for Americans during this coronavirus...
TRUMP: Oh, yes, that's one of them.
BARTIROMO: ... the Democrats wanting money for the post office for mail-in voting?
TRUMP: That's one -- that's one of them. That's right.
They want $25 billion for the post office, because the post office is going to have to go to town to get these great, ridiculous ballots in.
BARTIROMO: What are the plans for the second-term agenda, Mr. President?
TRUMP: OK.
Well, I've done the payroll tax cut temporary -- you know, this is a temporary payroll tax cut, but this is a very substantial, positive jolt to the economy. I'm going to do a capital gains tax cut to 15 percent in second term.
We're going to get it down to 15. It's at 21. We'll get that down to 15 percent. And I'll get that done easily.
We're going to take the House. I believe we're going to take back the House, because Nancy Pelosi is stone-cold crazy. We're going to hold the presidency. And we're fighting very hard in the Senate.
I'll be honest. The Senate is tough. We have a couple of people that aren't as supportive of Trump as they should be. And those people are going to lose their elections. If they don't support Trump, they lose their elections. It's a very simple element.
I'm going to have over 300 judges by the end of the first term. Nobody's ever seen that before. I'm going to have two Supreme Court judges, justices, and we'll have literally over 300 judges, including court of appeals.
We've done things that nobody's ever done, the tax cuts, the regulation cuts, ANWR. Look at -- ANWR, they couldn't get ANWR done. Ronald Reagan couldn't get it done, Bushes. Nobody could get it done. And I got ANWR done.
BARTIROMO: But there was still a coup against you. There was still a coup against you, is my point.
TRUMP: Everybody -- that's true.
BARTIROMO: Where is John Durham, Mr. President? Is he -- I mean, where is John Durham? We know that there was criminality.
TRUMP: I hope he's -- where is he? I hope he's doing a great job.
And I hope they're not going to be politically correct. And I hope they do what -- because the fact is, this was -- President Obama knew everything. Vice President Biden, as dumb as he may be, he knew everything. And everybody else knew everything, Maria. And you know it.
And Comey and Brennan and Clapper, they all were terrible, and they lied to Congress. They spied on my campaign, which is treason. They spied both before and after I won. Think of that, using the intelligence apparatus of the United States...
BARTIROMO: Do you want to get a special counsel...
TRUMP: ... to take down a president, a legally elected president, a duly elected president of the United States. It's the single biggest...
BARTIROMO: That's right.
TRUMP: ... political crime in the history of our country. And I hope they're doing a job.
I hope they're not going to be politically correct and say, well, you know, we want to go -- just get -- let's get the lower guys that forged the documents going into FISA.
Bill Barr can go down as the greatest attorney general in the history of our country, or he can go down as just an average guy. It depends on what's going to happen.
BARTIROMO: Well, do you want to see a special counsel put in place to ensure that the American people find out what took place here?
We know that there was an FBI agent who actually changed documents, changed evidence. We know that there was lying to the court, lying to the Congress, leaking to the media.
What -- if you do not win in November, we're not going to hear another word about this. So, should...
TRUMP: That's right, probably.
BARTIROMO: ... A.G. Barr bring in a special counsel...
TRUMP: They'll probably cancel it out, almost definitely.
BARTIROMO: ... to ensure that this is...
TRUMP: They'll probably cancel it out, almost definitely.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
TRUMP: And it's a shame. It's a shame.
But we caught them. Look, we caught them. They don't need a special counsel. First of all, they have a special counsel working. And they have Durham working, so they don't need another special counsel. We've had enough special counsels.
And, frankly, everybody knows, if you didn't have one bit of evidence from what you already know from reading the newspapers, they're all guilty as hell.
BARTIROMO: But, Mr. President, we know that the FBI lied to the Senate in February of 2018. Christopher Wray was running the FBI, Mr. President. Is Christopher Wray hiding all of this stuff and protecting the FBI? Should he step down?
TRUMP: So, Christopher Wray was put there. We have an election coming up. I wish he was more forthcoming. He certainly hasn't been.
He was put there for a good reason. He was chosen by a certain person. And I said, go ahead, put whoever you want. I'm so honest that I said, you could put anybody you want. Let's see how Wray turns out. He's going to either turn out one way or the other.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
TRUMP: But I'll tell you, Bill Barr...
BARTIROMO: All right, before we -- yes.
TRUMP: ... and Durham have a chance to be -- Bill Barr has a chance to be the greatest of all time. But if he wants to be politically correct, he'll be just another guy, because he knows all the answers.
BARTIROMO: Mr. President, you...
TRUMP: He knows what they have. And it goes right to Obama and it goes right to Biden.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BARTIROMO: My thanks to President Donald Trump.
Coming up, quick break, and then the man who helped Donald Trump take the White House back in 2016, what he expects from the convention, the Democratic National Convention, kicking off tomorrow, and whether Biden made the right choosing Kamala Harris.
We have got Steve Bannon on the other side of this.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BARTIROMO: Welcome back.
It is officially convention season, with the DNC kicking off tomorrow, followed by the RNC on August 24.
Both events will be almost entirely virtual, setting the stage for what's expected to be an historic showdown between President Donald Trump and Joe Biden come November.
My next guest knows better than anyone what it takes to win the presidency. He helped lead Donald Trump to victory in 2016 as the chief executive of Trump's campaign.
Joining me right now is former White House chief strategist and the host of the wildly popular "War Room: Pandemic" Steve Bannon.
Steve, it is good to see you this morning. Thanks very much for being here.
STEVE BANNON, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF STRATEGIST: Thanks.
BARTIROMO: I want to kick it off with the convention.
Tomorrow, look who you have got speaking at the Democratic National Convention. Bernie Sanders is opening it up. Michelle Obama will be the big highlighter, and then John Kasich and Amy Klobuchar. The week follows suit with John Kerry, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Bill Clinton, the big speaker on Tuesday, Wednesday, Hillary Clinton, Elizabeth Warren, Kamala Harris, Barack Obama, the important big speaker 9:00 Wednesday night, and then, of course, Thursday, Cory Booker, Pete Buttigieg, and Joe Biden.
Let's talk. What are you expecting?
BANNON: Well, I think this is perfect for President Trump.
In fact, if I was the campaigner of the RNC, I would amplify the messages coming out of this convention. And here is why. President Trump won in '16 because he stood up for America. He stood up for working-class and middle- class people against an elite, a financial and political elite that was driving the managed decline of the United States.
And you're going to see it over the next four days. That's what they are going to be talking about, more globalization, right, more economic devastation, now coupled with this kind of undergirding of this cultural Marxism and anarchy of Antifa and certain elements of the Black Lives Matter.
So, I think it's perfect, because this is going to down, I think, to a pretty bold choice, between do you want the America of globalization, do you want the America of Joe Biden, and do you want the America of these political and financial elites, or do you want the America-first economic nationalism and populism of Donald Trump?
And I think, look, Jared laid out, I think very succinctly, in the first segment what the national security and foreign affairs issues are with this pivot.
But go back and look at Obama-Biden. You had the greatest concentration of wealth in America 's history during their term of office, their two terms. President Trump turned that around to a striver's economy, where blacks, Hispanics, the working class, middle class are starting to get increases in pay and lower unemployment.
Also, Joe Biden was put in charge by President Obama of the pivot to Asia. And what did the Democrats do? They cut a terrible deal with Iran that then partnered with the Chinese Communist Party. It was Joe Biden that fumbled the pivot to Asia. It was Joe Biden that basically gave away the South China Sea, walked away from the cyber-intrusions.
It was Joe Biden put in charge of trying to confront the Chinese Communist Party, and he failed.
So, I think this week is going to be great for the Trump campaign and the RNC and the White House to let the American people see exactly what the policies are, what America is. And here is what they want. They want death and destruction. They want the death of the American economy and the destruction of the American way of life.
And I think, if that's highlighted by the end of the week, it'll smoke Joe Biden out of his basement. He's going to have to stop doing the proof-of- life podcasts and get on and hustings and prove that he can take on Donald Trump, because I think the policies themselves will blow this election out.
BARTIROMO: One of those policies is higher taxes.
The Wall Street Journal writes, under Biden's tax -- tax increases, a married couple filing jointly shows $78,000 of ordinary income, their current marginal rate is 12 percent. When Trump's tax cut expired, their marginal rate under Biden would double to 25 percent. This is just a couple filing $78,000 in ordinary income.
What are your thoughts on Biden's choice of Kamala Harris? And, real quick, isn't it interesting that John Kasich is one of the speakers on Monday night? He is kicking off the DNC, John Kasich.
BANNON: Well, this shows you the never-Trump crowd, how they're triggered by President Trump.
John Kasich is a very -- he's a quisling, OK?Everything he's ever stood for his entire life, everything his supporters gave him, he's going to stand up there on Monday night and basically throw it all away, OK, because these policies are so radical.
The globalization projects are so radical by these Democrats, now with the undergirding of this cultural Marxism. So, no, I think Biden picked the perfect candidate for him, because I think it's so juxtaposed to what President Trump stands for.
I think Senator Harris is the perfect running mate for him, because now you can show the globalization. And, remember -- and, with Biden, you want have a Manchurian Candidate. You have a Beijing candidate.
The victory right here for President Trump, I think, is very specific. It goes right through Beijing. You hold them accountable for the pandemic. You hold them accountable for the economic carnage, for all the deaths. You start to confront the Chinese Communist Party everywhere, in technology and economics, in what they're doing.
You start to bring back the supply chains. You start to bring back high- value-added manufacturing jobs. That is the path to victory. Joe Biden is in cahoots. He's compromised by Beijing. He is compromised by the Chinese Communist Party.
Senator Harris is basically a cipher on this.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
BANNON: So, they're not going to be able to combat that.
I think President Trump, action, action, action, like he's been doing, and what Jared Kushner did the other day in this fabulous deal with UAE, with other things to come. And, remember, Jared is right. That's bringing back the Middle East to the side of the United States...
BARTIROMO: Yes.
BANNON: ... in this great confrontation with the Chinese Communist Party against Iran, against Pakistan, against Turkey, and against Russia.
BARTIROMO: Yes.
And, of course, you have got Peter Navarro driving that manufacturing with the Defense Production Act.
Steve, it's always great to get your insights. Thank you so much, sir.
We will see you soon, Steve Bannon.
Stay with us. We have got a lot more coming up right after this.
Senator Ron Johnson is here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BARTIROMO: Welcome back.
The next domino in the Russian collusion hoax toppled this week with news that FBI lawyer Kevin Clinesmith plans to plead guilty to doctoring a U.S. government e-mail that was used to obtain the third FISA warrant to unlawfully spy on Carter Page in June of 2017.
Joining me right now with reaction is Wisconsin Senator Ron Johnson. He is doing his own deep dive into Obama era corruption. He is the chairman of the Homeland Security and Government Affairs Committee.
Senator, it's always a pleasure. Good morning to you.
SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): Good morning, Maria.
Let me first offer my condolences to the president and his family on the passing of his brother Robert. My condolences.
BARTIROMO: Yes, we did say that as well. The president was in New York for his brother on Friday night.
Let me ask you about Kevin Clinesmith, Senator, and how this fits into the overall puzzle of corruption during the transition period from Obama to Trump.
Your reaction to this lawyer doctoring evidence, which we knew he did? He's now going to plead guilty.
JOHNSON: Well, this is an obvious indictment. And I can only assume the reason it took so long is probably John Durham was trying to get Kevin Clinesmith to cooperate with his additional prosecutions and investigations.
So I'm hoping that's the case, because there's an awful lot of wrongdoing that has to be exposed.
I think what was probably most stunning about the court document is now we know that, back in August of 2016, the CIA had already notified the FBI that they knew that Carter Page was an operational contact for the CIA. So, the FBI knew this back in August of 2016. And we only know that now?
You know, Maria, what we have found out in just the last week, you know, the premeditated lie on the part of the FBI briefers to the Senate Intelligence Committee. Now the fact that the FBI knew that Carter Page was an operational contact back in August 2016, these revelations are stunning.
And we should have known about this years ago, which, again, just makes me even more frustrated with Director Wray that I was forced to offer -- issue him a subpoena, which all those documents are due next Thursday. And they better be forthcoming.
BARTIROMO: Well, you make a really important point.
And we need to call it out right here. And what that is, is you and your colleagues have been asking for documents, asking for the evidence for years. And the FBI is sitting on documents. Whether it's you or when John Ratcliffe was in Congress or Devin Nunes, they all told me, over 2017, '18, '19, '20, that they constantly asked and asked to look at evidence and documents from the FBI, and you're not getting them.
Why are we learning all of this stuff now, when we spent $40 million on a Mueller investigation, we spent more money on a Michael Horowitz I.G. report? None of this unearthed any of this stuff. Michael Horowitz did do a good job in terms of the footnotes and unearthing a lot of things.
But all of these documents have been there this whole time, Senator.
JOHNSON: The reason we're not getting this is because the people that perpetrated this massive fraud on the American public have been very successful at hiding the ball.
You have a criminal investigation. Then you have Robert Mueller. And, by the way, I never supported the appointment of a special counsel. And I called it right out from the start that Robert Mueller never should have been the special counsel, because he had a massive conflict of interests.
I knew there was wrongdoing in the FBI. I was pilloried in the press for saying that. But now we know there was absolute corruption at the highest levels of the FBI. And it's taken years for this to come out.
This is completely unacceptable. We need to get to the truth as quickly as possible.
BARTIROMO: So, now we know, Senator Graham told us weeks ago, that the FBI briefed the Senate Intel Committee about the dossier in February of 2018, a year after everybody knew that the dossier was garbage, that it was hearsay.
You heard from the subsource in January of 2017. A year later, they brief - - the FBI briefs. And now Graham told us last week it was Bill Priestap briefing the Senate Intel. And they lied or misled under oath.
So let me ask you about those subpoenas. Who is stopping you from subpoenaing people from the FBI? You want to subpoena Chris Wray. You want to subpoena Jim Comey. Why aren't you? Why isn't -- and Lindsey Graham, who has subpoena power?
JOHNSON: Well, first of all, I have the authority to subpoena 33 different individuals. James Comey, Clapper, Brennan, those folks are on the list.
What has delayed my interviews of those individuals is, we don't have the documents. How can you sit down and conduct a thorough interview when you don't have, for example, the two documents that were just revealed over the last week?
So, we absolutely need those documents. That is what the FBI has been so successful at hiding the ball on. And, Maria, I have been saying this for a number of years. How do you investigate the investigators? They know how the game is played.
This, to me, has been an enormous diversionary operation to cover up their wrongdoing. It has been a successful diversionary operation. But now the chickens are coming home to roost. We're finally starting to learn this. But we are running out of time.
Nobody can out-frustrate me, trust me. I was kind of raked over the coals earlier this week by a radio talk show host. Nobody can out-frustrate me in the terms of the lack of forthcomingness from the FBI and the fact that we have not gotten these types of truths available and exposed to the American public.
BARTIROMO: Well, let me ask you this, because the only GOP senator who voted for impeachment is on your committee. And that is Senator Mitt Romney.
Is Mitt Romney stopping you from subpoenaing Brennan and Comey?
JOHNSON: No, he voted for that authority.
Now, there's no doubt about it. In the lead-up to that vote, we had to deal with members on my committee that had reservations. And I'd say they were legitimate. This is the committee process. I need to respect the wishes of the members of my committee.
But, in the end, every Republican on my committee gave me that authority. We have had that authority for a couple months. But they also wanted me to voluntarily get this information.
Well, we bent over backwards for the last couple months. My patience ran out, and I have begun the compulsory process. So we have already issued subpoenas to Director Wray for those documents, to Anthony -- or Jonathan Winer from the State Department. And additional subpoenas will be forthcoming.
BARTIROMO: My sources tell me that John Brennan is doing an interview with John Durham this upcoming Friday.
I guess my only question to you is, as we await John Durham's investigation results, do you see reason for indictments?
JOHNSON: Oh, I think, certainly, Andrew McCabe should have been indicted over a year ago after the I.G. report, where he was -- I love this euphemism, lacked candor with the FBI.
No, he lied to his own FBI investigators. Remember, George Papadopoulos spent 10 days in jail in Wisconsin for lying to the FBI. So, I can only assume, from that standpoint, that there are much greater offenses that they are investigating Andrew McCabe for.
But, no, there should be a host of indictments.
BARTIROMO: OK.
JOHNSON: From what we already know, there should be a host of indictments.
BARTIROMO: Senator, it's good to have you this morning. Thanks very much.
Of course, we will be following the situation, Senator Ron Johnson.
We're going deeper inside of all this with Steven Schrage, back with us again, next.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BARTIROMO: Welcome back.
My next guest is responsible for introducing Carter Page to Stefan Halper at a Cambridge University conference that he coordinated back in July of 2016.
Three months later, the FBI secured the first of four FISA warrants to unlawfully spy on Carter Page.
Steven Schrage is a former White House and State Department official. And he joins me right now.
Steven, thank you very much for joining us.
You really were able to take us behind the scenes of all of this last week when you joined us. We wanted to have you back.
I want you to tell us who Stephen Somma is, because Somma was always with Stefan Halper, who now, we know, is an outed spy, has worked with MI6 in the U.K., has worked with Western intelligence as well.
STEVEN SCHRAGE, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL: Right.
According to documents and connections that people have made, they point to Stephen Somma as being Stefan Halper's FBI handler. In reports -- in the I.G. report and elsewhere, he saves his career in 2011, when Stefan Halper was fired for being mercurial and having questionable allegiances to intelligence sources.
And I think he's one person that could answer a lot of questions about how this really started and was generated at the beginning of 2016, and throughout the end of -- start of 2017, before this really got rolling.
BARTIROMO: So, did you see Stephen Somma a lot while you were -- he was your Ph.D. senior. Stefan Halper was. Did you see Somma?
SCHRAGE: I did not see Somma much. I did not see him.
And, to be honest, they have struck all pictures of him. So, I haven't even seen a picture of him on the Internet.
BARTIROMO: Wow.
SCHRAGE: So, I may have come across him. But I have never seen people protected the way that Stefan Halper and Somma have been protected.
I haven't heard the president speak Stefan Halper's name. I have not heard people like Lindsey Graham speak his name, even though he's so central to everything that happened at the start of this.
BARTIROMO: And why do you think he's so central?
SCHRAGE: Sure.
BARTIROMO: I want to pull up this timeline, Steven, as we look at this timeline, because this really takes us back to 2016, when Stefan Halper first met Carter Page at your conference.
SCHRAGE: Right.
BARTIROMO: And it also shows us Alexander Downer and what he did.
SCHRAGE: Right.
BARTIROMO: In 2015, Michael Flynn first met Trump.
And then Stefan Halper was awarded a contract from the Office of Net Assessments for $255,000 -- $245,000. You invited Carter Page the next -- in July of '16.
SCHRAGE: Right.
BARTIROMO: And then, as we continue looking at this timeline, we see Alexander Downer involved as well.
Did you -- was Alexander Downer part of the Cambridge group as well?
SCHRAGE: I -- he would have a lot of connections to them through what's called the Five Eyes intelligence community. And he actually referenced that in an interview about why he did what he did. But he has kind of disappeared as well.
What seems strange is that there were these four individuals at Cambridge, Christopher Steele, Stefan Halper, and Richard Dearlove, who all did different pieces of this, along with another Cambridge professor, as it came to a head.
There have been reports. Carter Page, I think, was told at one point that Downer was actually at my conference. I have not confirmed that. But it is very odd that there's 4,800-some miles between Moscow and D.C., and all these events are connected to a very small group of people outside of London and Cambridge.
BARTIROMO: And they were all at your conference.
And Stefan Halper is making all this money to write "reports" -- quote, unquote -- about China -- $411,000, he got to write a report on China.
SCHRAGE: Right.
BARTIROMO: Meanwhile, he kept running into Trump campaign officials.
Take a quick break.
And then I'd like you to talk a little about that. Have you ever seen such a price paid for a report in academia?
Stay with us. We're talking with Steven Schrage this morning.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BARTIROMO: Welcome back.
We are bake with Steven Schrage.
And back in June of 2016, Schrage was organizing a conference.
And, Steven, so many of these spies that we now know about were at your conference. You had Alexander Downer there. You had Stefan Halper. You had others.
Was Joseph Mifsud there? Do you know Joseph Mifsud?
SCHRAGE: I do not know Joseph Mifsud. The only -- I only heard about him through the reports. And there have been reports that Downer was there, but I can't verify that he was there.
The key person that was there, along with Halper, was former MI6 Director Sir Richard Dearlove, who was Christopher Steele's old boss at MI6, and has popped up through this quite a bit during this entire time frame as well.
BARTIROMO: And you questioned why many of these people are protected.
Maybe people don't want to discuss these names because these are so-called sources and methods, where you have these spies that are taking direction from the FBI.
You have news today about what Stefan Halper's goals were. Not only did he want to spy, but he also perhaps wanted to get into the administration.
You have that on tape. Let's roll that tape.
SCHRAGE: Sure.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
SCHRAGE: Makes sense, and -- but you have no desire to go back in, unless there's something -- there's nothing that would appeal to you that...
STEFAN HALPER, FOREIGN POLICY SCHOLAR: They have already given it away.
SCHRAGE: Yes.
HALPER: They have already given away secretary of state.
SCHRAGE: Oh, wow. Is that your dream job, though, would be secretary of state?
HALPER: It would be a -- it would be a good job to have. I would enjoy it.
SCHRAGE: Yes.
HALPER: Yes. I would be happy with deputy as well.
SCHRAGE: Yes. Yes. Well, the deputy is still open, I guess.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BARTIROMO: So, explain the background of this tape, Steven.
SCHRAGE: Right.
I had been recording Stefan Halper for my Ph.D. to get comments on my thesis since 2015. He had told me before that he was very interested in secretary of state. And I had kind of dismissed it.
When I sat down with him -- this was on January 10 -- I was quite shocked. And he had mentioned that he claimed he had met with Ivanka Trump, other things that he was pushing very hard for administration posts in different ways.
And it subsequently came out through a leak that he was on a list of potential ambassadors for Asia. But there was no more information leaked after that. He then told me that he had actually been offered the ambassador to the Philippines, which is incredibly strategic, as Mr. Bannon mentioned earlier. It's on the South China Sea.
And especially when you have a spy that has been admitted to be surveilling Trump administration -- Trump campaign officials, when, you know, he spoke about how Flynn was going to blow up 48 hours before the felony leak happened, the question is, did the FBI know, did the top leaders in the FBI know that a spy was trying to infiltrate different positions in the Trump administration?
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