This is a rush transcript from "Justice with Judge Jeanine," December 22, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
JEANINE PIRRO, HOST: Breaking tonight, President Trump staying in Washington for Christmas as the Senate heads home amid a partial government shutdown and standoff for border security. Hello and welcome to "Justice," I'm Jeanine Pirro. Thanks for being with us and thanks to all of you for once again making "Justice" number one last weekend.
We have a great show on deck with a big guest lineup including White House Deputy Press Secretary Hogan Gidley, Senator Lindsey Graham, Congressman Mark Meadows, Jim Jordan and Matt Gaetz to name just a few.
But first, my "Opening Statement." With all due respect, I would like to direct my open to the President of the United States. Mr. President, I understand the pressure that you are under from every side, but the wall at our southern border is a promise that you made, ran on got elected on and must keep. But more than that, it is your legacy and you cannot allow them to force you to compromise, so here we are, days before the Christmas holiday and you are facing the most important issues that Americans elected you to confront, your promise to build the wall.
Now there's never been a President more dedicated to fulfilling a campaign promise than you. Unlike just about every other President in recent memory, you say what you mean and you mean what you say. That is why your base is so loyal to you and continues to grow. You have done what no other President has had the fortitude to do. The wall is no different and you must fulfill this fundamental promise to the American people. You cannot buckle.
Now, there's no question that on January 3rd, your presidency will face even more obstruction and resistance by the Democrats than you have seen in the last two years. They will stop at nothing. They are callously salivating at the prospect of your collapse. The only way to go into this is to let Pelosi and Schumer know that now, they are going to have a fight every step of the way. They will have to deal with the toxic environment they created.
No one has your strength, Mr. President. Your perseverance or your determination. You instinctively understand what needs to be done and how to do it and you need to build this wall. Your meeting in the Oval Office with Pelosi and Schumer was a turning point in your presidency. The arrogance, disrespect and condescension by these two members of Congress was shocking.
Schumer, unable to look you in the eye and Pelosi instructing you, the wall was a non-starter and that you did not have the votes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY PELOSI, MINORITY LEADER OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: The fact is, you do not have the votes in the House.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Nancy, I do and we need border security, Nancy.
PIRRO: Well, Mr. President she found out you had the votes. She is a liar and an obstructionist and I might add, the whole lot of them are hypocrites.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER, D-N.Y., SENATE MINORITY LEADER: Illegal immigration is wrong, plain and simple.
HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I voted numerous times when I was a senator to spend money to build a barrier to try to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in.
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT: We simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States undetected, undocumented, unchecked.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PIRRO: These hypocrites wanted a wall until Donald Trump wanted a wall, until Trump promised a wall. They simply will do whatever they can to stop you from succeeding, their hatred of you, Mr. President is so intense and so vindictive that they would rather destroy you and America than destroy the drug cartels, gang members and the human traffickers coming over our border.
Schumer, Pelosi and their gang of haters ignore the fact that 90% of the heroin coming into our country, killing our loved ones comes from Mexico. And Nancy and Chuck, you don't want to put a wall up to stop that? We have spent tens of billions of dollars to fight heroin, but you don't want to spend five billion dollars to put up a wall to stop heroin for good? Nancy and Chuck, you both know this year, ICE agents seized enough fentanyl to kill every person in the United States, but you don't want a wall to stop it.
Don't you want to stop the human traffickers? The child smuggling? And the coyotes raping young women, claiming that they are family? Isn't this what every law-abiding American wants? What is with this open border nonsense? And you call us racists, heartless and cruel?
I'll tell you what's heartless. It's a number of Americans that are killed by drugs pouring over our porous namby-pamby fence border. It's the number of illegals and Democrat sanctuary cities who kill innocent Americans. You want to throw down the welcome mat to illegals and with open arms, shower them with health care and education and housing.
Yes, you will have a fight from every side, but what is clear to the American people is that these Democrats have no respect for the rule of law and want to attack it. Their sanctuary cities endanger the safety of our citizens. It's just insanity. The only time the rule of law matters to these left-wing haters is when it's the campaign finance law, but the protection of our country and its citizens, who gives a damn?
So we shut down the government, okay, it's been shut down 20 times. Let's be clear. All essential personnel continue to work. The shutdown does not affect Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, the military or other essential branches and after the shutdown, all the other non-essential employees are paid. So stop with the rhetoric, 75% of our government is open and the wall is the will of the American people.
So now, there's talk of compromise for those of you who want a lesser amount than $5 billion, that number is simply inadequate. How many caravans need to come through before we realize that we need a wall? And the money from last year's budget, can only be used to fix a fence and for those of you who think that's enough, consider this.
An eight-month pregnant woman was able to scale the fence to get to the American side to deliver her baby. Do you really think that that is the kind of wall we need? Mr. President, the American people are tired of our government standing with illegals over American citizens. They are tired of the destruction of the rule of law in our country and everything our Founding Fathers fought for and I don't care who owns the shutdown and neither do they.
We voted for you and you have not failed us, so while the Senate goes home for Christmas, you remain in Washington. I am pleading with you, on behalf of the American people, who believe with every fiber of their being that if anyone can get it done, you are the one who can and will.
This is your moment in history. Just do it. Thank you, Mr. President.
And that's my open. Tell me what you think on my Facebook page, Twitter and Instagram, #JudgeJeanine.
And here with reaction to my open is - and all of the developing news of the day actually, White House Press Secretary Hogan Gidley who joins me now. All right, good evening, Hogan. You know, I am fired up over this border wall stuff and we've got Lindsey Graham, Mark, Meadows, Jim Jordan and Matt Gaetz - they're all here. They're all ready to get on board and get on the record. What is going on in the White House as it relates to the border wall?
HOGAN GIDLEY, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY: Well, Jeanine, thank you so much for having me on tonight and I can just share your passion for this issue and the President shares that passion as well and so do a majority of the American people.
This has been a crisis in the making for the better part of 40 years. You played the clip of Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer, I was standing behind Nancy Pelosi when she made those claims that the President did not have the votes. He did. I watched Chuck Schumer. I watched Nancy Pelosi when she made those claims that the President did not have the votes, he did.
I watched Chuck Schumer, I wanted Nancy Pelosi as they made their nonverbal cues back and forth to each other refusing to make eye contact with the President. They knew it wasn't true then, they know it's not true now. This country is facing a crisis. The American President, Donald Trump ran on that crisis, addressing that crisis. He's ready to take it on face forward for all the world to see because we've got to fix it and we've got to fix it now. That's why the vote happened and now it's up to the Senate Democrats.
So while your passion is shared by myself, the President and the American people, we need to focus that vitriol towards the folks in the Senate who have refused to address this problem and will not take a vote to protect the American people.
PIRRO: What are they afraid of? Why won't they take the vote number one, and number two, why are they going home for Christmas and the President is staying in the White House working?
GIDLEY: The President wants to fix this, so he's going to stay here. He's not going home to Mar-o-Lago. He's not taking a vacation like the senators are. That's a great point that you're making, but I don't know why Senate Democrats are opposed to this. You played the clips of them in the past.
This is Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Chuck Schumer all voted for a fence in 2006, a fence in 2013, and none of it ever came to fruition. You mentioned the heroin crisis we face in this country as well, $230 billion we spend on it, 300 deaths a week in this country because of it. You mentioned the fentanyl, ICE has seized enough to kill everybody in this country; 50,000 children a year are smuggled into this country. It is a burgeoning business, a disgusting business for people to exploit children and use them to get across our southern border, to use women in a manner, for abuse and sexual assault all along the way, two-thirds of those women experienced that.
All of that being said, at the very least, you should want to stand up and protect the American people. Democrats as you saw in that Oval Office, let me just make this point, Judge, you saw - you saw Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi. It was a watershed moment. They stood up collectively as the Democrat Party, we are standing with hundreds of thousands of people who are here illegally and unlawfully as opposed to hundreds of millions of American citizens. That's got to stop. The President wants to work with them. He does not want to shut down. We have to get something done to protect the American people and keep the government open.
PIRRO: All right, Hogan Gidley, you covered it all. Thanks so much for being with us this evening and Merry Christmas to you, Hogan.
GIDLEY: Merry Christmas to you. Thanks, Judge.
PIRRO: ALL right and joining me now with more on all of the developing news and the fight for border security, Senator Lindsey Graham. All right Senator, should Mitch McConnell have sent them home well?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, R-S.C.: Well, you know, I don't think we're going to do anything between now and Christmas.
PIRRO: Why not?
GRAHAM: Let me just say - well, it takes two to tango. Here's what Schumer said, I'm going to quote you, Judge. "Schumer demands Trump abandon the wall." So Senator Schumer, we're not going to abandon the wall. We're going to build the wall and to all of those Americans who want us to abandon the wall and open up the border, that's what this fight is about. We don't agree with you.
So Mark and Jim and Matt deserve a lot of credit for getting the President in a good spot. I had lunch with the President today and I can promise you, we need more money for the wall along the border. Schumer wants to abandon the wall. We want to build it. That's what this fight is all about and it really is a silly petty fight on behalf of Democrats.
GRAHAM: They all voted for $25 billion for the wall, border security in February.
PIRRO: Okay, but they won't - they won't allow for the actual building of a concrete wall. All right, I don't know if you heard my open, but there's an eight-month pregnant woman who scaled that ridiculous fence so she can get over. Listen, are you going to have to compromise in the Senate and how - in order to get the wall, because I can't believe that in the end, we will not get this wall, but maybe I'm just an optimist.
GRAHAM: Well let me tell you, we need the wall and after the caravan, okay, the President asked for $1.6 billion for wall funding early in the year. Along comes the caravan - 5,000 people show up at our border near Tijuana, Mexico and you made a very good point. What kind of wall is it that a nine-month pregnant woman can climb over, have the baby on our side with an hour? I am so glad she's healthy; apparently, the baby is okay. What else did we learn about our wall?
Somebody put an eight-month old baby under the wall, so Senator Schumer, what does it take for you to realize that we need more money for a broken border and this is about them hating Trump so much, warning him to lose, they can't understand that America needs to win and we're not going to give in.
GRAHAM: I am pretty reasonable guy, but we're not going to give in on this.
PIRRO: And you're a pretty reasonable guy, senator, who doesn't agree with the President --
GRAHAM: If I say so myself.
PIRRO: Yes, I'll say it. You don't agree with the President on everything and Syria is one of those issues, but I'm honestly right now, I'm into this wall right now. How are you going to get nine Democrats to vote for the wall? What are you going to do?
GRAHAM: We're going to go on TV and say to the American people that we need more money for wall funding because the threats against the country are greater, not smaller and the President asked for $1.6 billion, Democrats agreed to $1.6 billion. The difference between $1.6 billion and $5 billion is very small in a $3 trillion budget. The need is there.
Every Democrat in February voted for $25 billion dollars for wall funding. We're going to make the case that this is unreasonable and it is dangerous.
PIRRO: You know what? Okay, I just thought of something. You know, in the Omnibus Bill with the $700 billion for the military and all the other stuff, $500 billion for Planned Parenthood, you know, it was a compromise, right?
GRAHAM: Right, the whole deal.
PIRRO: They had $1.6 billion, I believed in that Omnibus Bill for the wall, but they specifically said Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan, you can't use any of it for the wall. What makes you think Mitch McConnell is in with you guys on this?
GRAHAM: Well, I think Mitch is not the problem. I think, he's the solution. I think Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi and the hard left are the problem. Chuck Schumer said today, "I demand that the President abandon the wall."
PIRRO: You know what I hope he does that continuously.
GRAHAM: If you want to know what this is about they want to abandon the wall, we want to build it.
PIRRO: Why does Chuck Schumer - why does Chuck Schumer hate the President so much?
GRAHAM: Well, you know I'm not saying he hates the President as a person. I'm saying this, that he hates the President's agenda. That he's cow- towing to the radical left that most Americans understand compromise is good, the Democrats have told the President, you won't get one penny for the wall. The people voted for the President to build a wall. They're on the wrong side of this issue.
The three people coming behind me, these congressmen, they understand what 2016 was all about. We did lose the House in 2018, but I promise you this, the issue of securing our border is alive and well and when Chuck Schumer tells the President, he demands that he abandon this wall. President Trump should listen to your opening statement, he will. I've never seen the President more determined to get something done than to build this wall.
PIRRO: Good. Senator Lindsey Graham, always good to have you on the show. Come back and see us sometime.
GRAHAM: I'll be back.
PIRRO: All right.
GRAHAM: Merry Christmas.
PIRRO: Merry Christmas. And coming up, Congressmen Mark Meadows, Jim Jordan and Matt Gaetz - all standing by live to discuss this critical issue. Will we be able to get the wall funded? The answers you won't want to miss, are next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL, R-KY., SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: So one would think that securing our homeland, controlling our borders and protecting the American people would be bipartisan priorities.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PIRRO: That's Senator Mitch McConnell earlier today with some strong words for the Democrats amid this battle for border security. Joining me now - three key players who are fighting to protect Americans each and every day. Congressman Mark Meadows, Congressman Jim Jordan and Congressman Matt Gaetz. Thank you all for being here.
Now, you all attended the working lunch at the White House to discuss border security. Congressman Matt Gaetz, I'll start with you on this question what was it like with the President today?
REP. MARK GAETZ, R-FLA.: I was so proud of our President. The establishment in Washington on both sides of the aisle wanted President Trump to take a bad deal that didn't have any funding for border security, but he was tough. He stood up to them and you know, the reason big business wants to have a deal is because they want the cheap labor but who ends up paying for that is the American worker, the American family that wants the safety that comes with a secure border.
And so the President did his job. He pushed back and now, I think the President made very clear to all of us and he's made clear to the country that he is not going to take a bad deal from the Democrats and anything under two billion you know, $1.6 billion, what Schumer was floating, that is a total non-starter. We're going to have real border security or we're going to have a long shutdown, Judge.
PIRRO: All right, well you know, Congressman Jim Jordan, you know, the Senate has gone home. Should they have gone home and let me stop for a minute, I want to congratulate the House for doing what you did and getting this passed and to all of you. I know, you're the movers and shakers, but anyway, Jim, should the Senate have gone home?
REP. JIM JORDAN, R-OH: Well, here's what I know. One week ago, Nancy Pelosi sat in the Oval Office and told the President the United States there weren't the votes in the House. Three days ago, the United States Senate sent a bill to the House with no funding for the border security wall. Two days ago, we passed a bill out of the House of Representatives, 217 to 185, strong win for the President and more importantly strong win for the country. So I don't know whether they should have went home or not all.
I know is the momentum is on our side because the American people want a secure border. They want what the President campaigned on which is a border security wall to deal with the caravan issues and all the other issues you talked about in your opening statement.
PIRRO: All right and Congressman Mark Meadows, what is it going to take in the Senate, I know you're in the House, but what do you think it's going to take? How much horse trading is going to have to be done to get this passed?
REP. MARK MEADOWS, R-N.C.: Well you had Senator Lindsey Graham on and he's been actively involved, but it's not just him. You have Mike Lee. We met with Senator Shelby from Alabama earlier today with the President. What it's really going to take is for the Democrats to quit saying that they're for border security when they don't want any funding for the wall.
I mean you can't be for one and suggest that you're for a secure America when you're wanting zero funding for that, so we're going to have to work hard I can tell you, should the senators have gone home? The answer is no. You know, they should be right here in Washington D.C. along with the President working hard because the American people expect us to get this done.
And so yes, there's been multiple offers by this administration. You talk about being flexible. The President and his team have been fully engaged every hour making multiple offers, but the answer continues to be the same on Capitol Hill.
Well, we've got a check with Nancy Pelosi. Since when does Senators have to check with Nancy Pelosi?
PIRRO: What? Chuck Schumer is bowing down to Nancy Pelosi now? What's his problem?
MEADOWS: Well, he is. I mean when you when you look at that, you know, she's obviously running and going to get the gavel and going to be a Speaker, but when we look at this what we have to make sure of is that each senator understands what's at stake and it's the security of our communities. We're talking about drug trafficking, human trafficking, terrorism - all of that - is there a price that we can put on that? No $5 billion is the number that we need. We need to continue to work hard and to get this done.
JORDAN: And Judge.
PIRRO: And you know, we've got - go ahead, Jim.
JORDAN: Judge, I would say, here's the problem. They are more - as Senator Graham said, they're more concerned about stopping the President than they are in helping the country. Everyone knows we need to secure the border. Everyone knows we need a border security wall to stop the gang problems, the drug problems, the human trafficking problems - the whole thing. So if they would stay more focused on doing what's best for the country, something they were all for just a few years ago, instead of going after the President, just trying to stop anything the President is for, the country would be better off.
PIRRO: And you know Congressman Gaetz, one of the things that I noticed when I was down at the border, I think last year or the year before, I'm not sure, it was - they called them rape trees, where the coyotes would bring these young girls across and they would have the personal belongings, the undergarments of the girls that they raped on the - you know, in this country.
I mean people - how could the left, the Liberals, the people who are supposed to care not understand how important this wall is. What do they get out of not having a wall?
GAETZ: Judge, when we don't build a wall, it's like we hang an open for business sign for every coyote and cartel that would want to destabilize our border and bring harm to America's families and so we need new wall funding. There's a trick the Democrats are trying and we've got to be able to stop it. They're trying to constrain the money that we want to get for the new border wall only to go and fix old fences.
Now, we ran on build the wall, not fix the fence, and so I think that - you know, until we have that type of aggressive posture, we're not going to be able to deliver on this result, but what I keep coming back to is just my gratitude for the fact that we have a President of the United States who did not give in to either side. He's still fighting. We're still fighting and I think it's a fight worth having for American families, American workers and our national security.
PIRRO: And you know what? The way the week was going, I was a little worried, but the President came back. Anyway stay with us, this star- studded show continues with the Congressman Meadows, Gaetz and Jordan who are going to stick around to delve deeper into the fight for the wall. Will these men lead the charge to get the wall the American people want?
ANITA VOGEL, CORRESPONDENT: Live from "America's News Headquarters," I'm Anita Vogel. For a sixth straight weekend police and yellow vest protesters clashing on the streets of Paris. Their numbers seeing a sharp decrease though. Today's group was estimated at about two thousand, a drastic decline from the estimated ten thousand protesters about two weeks ago. This, as the yellow vest movement continues in Belgium. Protesters there raising concerns about social welfare and the rising cost of living.
President Trump facing a setback with his plan to implement new asylum restrictions. A divided Supreme Court upholding a lower court's ruling that blocks the Trump administration from enforcing a ban on asylum for any immigrants who cross the U.S.-Mexico border illegally. The President's plan would have forced immigrants to wait in Mexico while their asylum cases are processed. I'm Anita Vogel, now back to "Justice With Judge Jeanine."
PIRRO: Welcome back to "Justice" on this very busy night of news. Congressmen Mark Meadows, Jim Jordan, Matt Gaetz are all back with me to continue the discussion on the critical issue of the border wall. You know, I'm going to address this first to Congressman Mark Meadows.
You know now, both you guys and the President are going to have to work with a different House, a Democrat majority, how's that going to work, Congressman Meadows?
MEADOWS: Well obviously, you're going to have to make a choice here. I think the President has made it very clear, either you're going to actually work in a bipartisan way or you're not and right now, all indications are the Democrats are not interested in cooperating or finding common ground. We see this on the border wall where they're saying zero dollars are enough.
The other thing that we're seeing is multiple letters, some 50-plus letters coming out of oversight on investigation, so you've got two tracks. You've got either a legislative track or an investigative track and I can tell you, I'm having a lot of fruitful conversations with Democrats but the choice is going to be made very soon. Is this going to be one that we're going to move the country forward and cooperate together or not? And I say, first out of the box, Nancy Pelosi and zero dollars on the wall is not a good sign.
PIRRO: You know, it's amazing. You know, all they did, when you guys were in power was obstruct, resist, obstruct, resist. You guys now say, "Look, let's work together," and they're continuing with that even though you know, it's just unbelievable.
JORDAN: Fifty one letters, 51 letters judge that Elijah Cummings as Mark just said, 51 letters he's already sent to the administration, various Federal agencies - all kinds of investigations they are going to proceed with.
PIRRO: Yes, well they're going to be busy doing that, not the people's business, but anyway, you know, Jim, there is talk about a having a status quo spending bill with no wall. How would that work and could that possibly happen?
JORDAN: No, that's what they tried. That's what we just defeated and we amended it and put on the $5 billion for the wall, so that is not going to fly in the United States. That's not going to fight for the rest of this Congress. I mean, if we get to a point later, they may try that, but that is not what's needed. We need the money for the wall.
You know, Judge, I was thinking about this. The moment I most remember last week, the moment I most remember is when the President and Nancy Pelosi were talking there in the Oval Office and he Nancy Pelosi said, "We want to do this in private," he says, "No, Nancy, this is a good thing. Transparency is a good thing for the American people." And the President is so right.
We need to have this open debate and focus right on this key issue. We need a border security wall, the President has done that, that moment in the Oval Office. We'll be continuing it this week. We need to continue to have this debate so we can get done what we all promised the American people we were going to do for them.
PIRRO: Well, you know what, there's no question that the American people are fascinated seeing a President talk to the other side of the aisle and have discussions. I know - he did it last year once. I was absolutely glued and what was so shocking was the way they wouldn't make eye contact with him. The disrespect.
But anyway, let's talk about Mitch McConnell. Mitch McConnell, guys, was all in when it came to Kavanagh, and as I referenced in one of my other segments, I said Mitch McConnell was part of that Omnibus Bill where they had $1.6 million for a border security, but it was not allowed to be used for the border wall. So I'm like kind of skeptical as to whether or not McConnell is all in on this. Am I right or wrong? Or talk to me.
GAETZ: I think you're right, Judge. If Mitch McConnell were serious about the border wall, he would not have voice voted out of the Senate legislation that preserved the status quo. Donald Trump ran against the status quo. That is what we're trying to change. We don't want business as usual.
Frankly, what Mitch McConnell ought to do is use the nuclear option so that we're able to get this vote up with 51 votes. Now, again, I don't know if that would be successful, but if the Democrats could go to a 51-vote threshold for Obamacare when that was Obama's signature issue, I don't understand why we couldn't go to a 51-vote threshold for the wall, which is President Trump's signature issue.
PIRRO: Okay - go ahead, Mark.
MEADOWS: And Judge, let me jump in there real quick because you've hit a key point. If the senators would work as hard as President Trump is working right now to fulfill his campaign promise, if they would get behind him and support it and yes, there may have to be some give-and-take here and there, if they would work that that hard and be that committed, you know what? We'll get this resolved very quickly and have the government open back up and ready to roll. But so far, you know, they're taking off for Christmas. The President is staying here.
PIRRO: Yes, I think that pretty much says it all. Congressmen, Mark Meadows, Jim Jordan, and Matt Gaetz - what a thrill to have you all on this evening. Thanks so much on this holiday weekend.
JORDAN: Merry Christmas, Judge.
MEADOWS: Great to be with you.
GAETZ: Merry Christmas.
PIRRO: And up next, National Security insider Dr. Sebastian Gorka joins me to break down the President's strategy and why the wall needs to be done now. What should the President's next move be? "Justice" is back in a moment.
The Dems choosing to shut down our government instead of securing our southern border. Here with reaction to that and more, former deputy assistant to the President, Fox News national security strategist, author also of "Why we fight?" Dr. Sebastian Gorka.
All right, Dr. Gorka, why do Democrats not want to secure our border and protect our country from drugs and crime and terrorism?
SEBASTIAN GORKA, NATIONAL SECURITY STRATEGIST: How long have you got, Judge? There's lots of ideological reasons. They really do hate this country the way it was envisaged by the Founding Fathers. But if we get really practical about it, it's about votes. Think about this issue that they don't want to have voter ID. They call the idea that having voter ID, you can't rent a car without ID, you can't get on a plane without ID, but having ID when you vote is voter suppression?
Judge, it's only suppression of illegal voters. They want to lock in the next demographic. They want to bring people in here who will vote for them forever and that's why they don't want a wall. They couldn't care less about the immigrants. My parents were refugees. I'm a legal immigrant to the United States. This isn't about compassion. This is about power and corruption, nothing less.
PIRRO: You know and it is amazing the excuses that they use that we are racist, you know, while we allow people to come in from all other parts of the world, but we're racist when we don't know who they are, what they are and what - but my understanding is that, now Mexico is helping us somewhat by keeping many of them there until they can legally apply for asylum. What do you know about that?
GORKA: Right. So let's be clear about the real issue here. We can ignore national security for a second. You listed all the issues -- MS-13, weapons smugglers, the fentanyl -- all of that. But think about that the really compassionate argument.
The Democrats say they are the empathetic ones. They're the compassionate ones, then why don't they care about the girls. More than 25% of the girls trafficked across the border are raped on the way here. Why don't they really care about the minors? They'll show us photographs from the Obama administration putting children in cages, but do they know that of the 12,000 minors in DHS facilities now, 10,000 of them, Judge - 10,000 were handed to the coyotes by their parents.
If you want to protect the young girls, if you want to protect children, build the wall beyond our side of the argument, but they couldn't care less. They don't care about the immigrants, it's only about votes. That's how cynical the Democrats are.
PIRRO: You know what I think, Sebastian, what I think is that, it's now in the Senate and what needs to be done is every senator who was against the wall in their particular state, they need to meet the victims of crimes - committed by illegals -- homicides, felonies -- whatever, and also the victims' families of those who have overdosed on fentanyl and heroin. That's what that push needs to be a grassroots push from the ground up for those highfalutin senators in Washington who are now home relaxing when they should be in Washington working like the President so that they feel from their base what matters and what counts.
GORKA: Right, we should know. Right now, we should have every senator make a yes or no vote on the wall. Think about the 60,000 people that die as a result of overdoses. That's more than all the people who died wearing the U.S. uniform in Vietnam. We should have all the pressure put on these senators in those states that are not prepared to protect Americans and who will protect illegals who want to give free passage to MS, 13 who want to support sanctuary cities. Let's see who they are and let's see what political consequence they pay in their own districts.
PIRRO: Correct, so correct. Dr. Sebastian Gorka, always good to have you on "Justice." Thank you and Merry Christmas.
GORKA: Merry Christmas.
PIRRO: Thank you and coming up, Tom Fitton, here to talk all the latest developments with Cardinal Comey, Flynn and Mueller heading into the new year. What's next to come? The answer to that and more in a moment.
James Comey making headlines again this week defending the FBI's interview of Michael Flynn. Judicial Watch President, Tom Fitton joins me now to discuss that and more. All right, Tom, I've got to start with the shutdown. What's your take on the shutdown?
TOM FITTON, PRESIDENT, JUDICIAL WATCH: The President is doing the right thing. The establishment waits until the last minute on these big spending bills especially around Christmas and so the key is what they try to do is it make it impossible to challenge and get effective conservative policy in place like border security and a wall, and the President being the disrupter he is said, "No, we're not going to do that," and I hope he sticks to his guns.
PIRRO: Well you know, the partial shutdown, you know, they're making it like, "Oh, it's heartless around Christmas." I mean, everybody gets paid, right?
FITTON: Yes, there are some people who may get a delayed paycheck. Some will have to work without pay for a little bit, but in the end, most of everyone who's affected will get paid and in fact, most of the government affected or those employees who work in those agencies, most of those employees are going to be showing up to work anyway.
So it's not a big deal. This is why you get the press over heatedly talking about it because they know the impact is not significant here in Washington.
PIRRO: And, oh, gee, who isn't shutdown? Mueller and the Special Counsel? They're not shut down, are they?
FITTON: Yes, it is interesting. The Mueller operation to my understanding is, it gets an indefinite appropriation, so he gets money that you know, some other government agencies aren't able to get to continue his harassing campaign against the President of the United States.
PIRRO: Indeed, indeed. All right let's talk about - you were in the courtroom when Flynn was supposed to be sentenced. What's your take on how the judge handled Michael Flynn?
FITTON: Well he could have been kinder to him, but you know, I think Judge Sullivan was doing a little tough love on Michael Flynn trying to convince him to pull away from his plea agreement because he recognized the corruption issues that were being presented to him, but that Flynn and his lawyers didn't want to pursue because they were insistent on pursuing this plea deal and that's why he was raising the specter of all these additional crimes in some ways unfairly, but what was also interesting was the Special Counsel lawyer there kept his head down.
He didn't confront the crimes. He didn't respond to the corruption issues that were raised by General Flynn and corruption issues which have been largely confirmed. You had James Comey admit that he breached protocol and specifically tried to get around the White House Counsel to get this ambush interview of Flynn done.
I'd tell you, if I were the court, I'd be upset about this, but if Flynn isn't going to fight, there's not much the court is going to do and this is why the President ultimately is probably going to have to pardon Flynn to ensure that justice is meted out fairly.
PIRRO: Well, you know, what's interesting is that, I thought that you know, the judge was being somewhat schizophrenic the day -- you know, the week before you've got 48 hours to give me the 302s, then you know, they didn't give him the 302s on Friday, he gets them on Monday. He doesn't really address the problem why it was so hard to get the 302s of Flynn and then he starts saying, well is this treason? I mean I was a sentencing judge. I would never dare accuse defendant standing in front of me for one crime of possibly having committed other crimes. Your job as a sentencing judge is to focus on the crime in front of you that the defendant has pled guilty to.
I find it stunning and yet you know, I don't understand it. Something is going on that none of us get, but finally how does this delay in the Flynn plea affect the President?
FITTON: Well, it guarantees the President is going to face more harassment over the next year, I would suspect from the Mueller operation because Flynn, unless he said - in theory, he's still a cooperating witness with the Mueller investigation and all these news stories that Mueller is going to give a report in February, I don't buy much. I don't buy into.
I think the goal of the Mueller operation is to take out the President of the United States and you can't do that if you shut it down, so I don't see him shutting it down.
PIRRO: All right, Tom Fitton, it's always bad news, but Merry Christmas to you. Thanks for being with us tonight.
FITTON: Merry Christmas. Thank you.
PIRRO: All right and everyone, we'll be right back. I've got a special message for you.
It's almost Christmas and I know you're all shopping like crazy. I can tell you the best gift you could give us a copy of my new book, "Liars Leakers and Liberals: The Case against the Anti-Trump Conspiracy." In case I haven't already told you 99 times, it's a number one "New York Times" bestseller. And finally, tonight, I want to take a moment to wish everyone of you wonderful viewers a heartfelt happy and blessed Merry Christmas and if you have the time, look in on a senior citizen who might not have the resources and the family that many of us have.
Thanks so much for watching. I'm Jeanine Pirro, still advocating for truth, justice and the American Way. "The Greg Gutfeld show" is coming up and I'll see you next Saturday night.
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