Rudy Giuliani on whether he will testify before Congress on Ukraine controversy

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Rudy Giuliani on whether he will testify before Congress on Ukraine controversy

Personal attorney to President Trump Rudy Giuliani says if he is called to testify he will take that up with his client.

This is a rush transcript from "Sunday Morning Futures," September 29, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARIA BARTIROMO, ANCHOR: Good Sunday morning, everyone. Thanks so much for joining us. I'm Maria Bartiromo.

House Democrats accelerating their impeachment inquiry of President Trump, as three committee chairmen subpoena the country's top diplomat, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo. They want documents related to Ukraine in the wake of that whistle-blower complaint about the president's conversation with Ukraine's president.

One of the people mentioned in that conversation, my first guest this morning, Rudy Giuliani, the president's personal attorney.

Then we will hear exclusively from House Judiciary Committee ranking member Doug Collins, along House Intel Committee Member Mike Turner. The two Republicans weigh in on the impeachment push, the Ukraine controversy, and whether there's a chance for bipartisanship on legislative issues that matter to the American people.

Also with us this morning, former Attorney General Michael Mukasey is here. He will join us on Speaker Pelosi's claims that Attorney General Barr has - - quote -- gone rogue."

Then the former prime minister of Qatar is here, a very rare and unique interview. Hamad Bin Jassim Al Thani is here exclusively on the tensions between the U.S. and Iran.

All those stories and a lot more right now, right here on "Sunday Morning Futures."

All right, as Democrats accelerate their impeachment inquiry, we are getting new reaction this morning from the two people squaring off at the center of it all, President Trump and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

The president put out a video message on Twitter, arguing that the whole thing is politically motivated. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT: The greatest scam in the history of American politics. The Democrats want to take away your guns, they want to take away your health care, they want to take away your vote, they want to take away your freedom, they want to take away your judges.

They want to take away everything. We can never let this happen. We're fighting to drain the swamp, and that's exactly what I'm doing. And you see why we have to do it, because our country is at stake like never before.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BARTIROMO: Meanwhile, Speaker Pelosi is dismissing the possible electoral consequences for Democrats. She says her party must move forward, even if it means losing the House in 2020.

Watch this:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI, D-CALIF.: People say you have to take a political risk doing that. That doesn't matter. That doesn't matter, because we cannot have a president of the United States undermining his oath of office, his loyalty, his -- to his oath of office, undermining our national security and undermining the integrity of our elections.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BARTIROMO: The impeachment inquiry was, of course, sparked by a whistle- blower complaint concerning President Trump's July phone call with the president of Ukraine.

A White House transcript shows the president asking the Ukrainian leader to investigate Joe Biden and his son. The president urged Ukraine to work with his personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, on the matter.

Joining me right now to give us his first reaction to all of this is Rudy Giuliani. He's President Trump's personal attorney and former New York City mayor.

And, Mr. Mayor, it's good to see you this morning.

RUDY GIULIANI, ATTORNEY FOR PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: And former U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York who investigated many corruption cases, Democrats and Republicans, and didn't have the standard that exists now, which is you only investigate Republicans.

These things that are alleged by Joe Biden, if you change the name to Trump, is there any fair-minded person in this country that thinks, after six months, I would be pointing them out, putting them online, and The Washington Post and The New York Times wouldn't have made a major scandal out of this?

If you think that, you're not observing reality.

BARTIROMO: I understand. And...

GIULIANI: And this is one of the reasons for the bitterness and the division in this country, because Americans just instinctually cannot abide two different systems of justice.

One, if your son is working for a crooked oligarch in a country, you're giving out money, and you're the vice president, and he gets $8 million, or he's getting $1.5 billion from China, and your name is Biden, and if I bring it up, they attack me?

The first question is, how did you find it, not, what is it?

(LAUGHTER)

BARTIROMO: Right. I understand what you're saying, and I want to get back to all that.

GIULIANI: Good.

BARTIROMO: And you should know that, on this program, we have been covering what went on and the origins, the origins of the Russia probe.

GIULIANI: Oh, Maria, I'm talking about the overwhelming majority of there swamp, not a few individuals like you.

BARTIROMO: Tell us what your role has been in this Ukraine story in terms of the corruption there and finding out what went on with Joe Biden. What is your role?

(CROSSTALK)

GIULIANI: My role is very, very simple.

I'm a lawyer defending a client. And one of the things you do defending a client is, if you prove that somebody else did it, or there's some other explanation for it, then, of course, you pursue that vigorously.

They should be applauding me. If I was representing a terrorist or a murderer, they would say, wow, you're one hell of an investigator. You have found things that the FBI couldn't find.

Well, the FBI could have found it. The FBI went like this. So I was sitting in my office in November. This was dropped on me by Ukrainians actually by an American first, two Americans, and they told me they couldn't get it to the FBI. They'd been trying for a year. They had been trying for a year, and they couldn't get it to the Justice Department. They had been trying for a year.

And what this is is...

BARTIROMO: Yes, what exactly are you holding? You have an affidavit here. What is this?

(CROSSTALK)

GIULIANI: Well, this is not like -- I want to point out the difference.

This is not like this ridiculous whistle-blower nothing, which says, I wasn't a direct witness, and then it says, I learned, I heard, I guess, I think, never I know.

I have I know. This is an affidavit from the main person involved in this. His name is Viktor Shokin. He was the prosecutor general of Ukraine at the time.

BARTIROMO: He's the one that Biden wanted fired.

GIULIANI: And they say he was corrupt, he was fired for corruption. The reality is, he's never been charged with corruption. There have been no corruption charges proven. I have seen the man. He lives in a little home, and he's about 74 years old.

If he's corrupt, he wasn't good at it.

BARTIROMO: Biden is on camera saying, I got him fired.

(CROSSTALK)

GIULIANI: Yes. But he's not on camera telling the rest of it is, which is that before this guy was fired...

BARTIROMO: You're reading directly from the affidavit.

GIULIANI: I'm reading. I will read the...

BARTIROMO: Go ahead.

GIULIANI: "On several occasions, President Poroshenko asked me to consider the possibility of winding down the investigative actions in respect to this company." That's Biden's son's company.

"But I refused to close this investigation. Therefore, I was forced to leave office under direct and intense pressure from Joe Biden and the Obama administration. In my conversations with Poroshenko at the time, he was emphatic that I should cease my investigation regarding Burisma."

That's Biden's company.

"When I didn't, he said that the United States (via Biden) were refusing to release the $1 billion promised to Ukraine. He said that he had no choice, therefore, but to ask me to resign."

I have a second affidavit from a Ukrainian prosecutor, another one, saying that, several days later, a P.R. firm and lawyer on behalf of Hunter Biden came in and began by apologizing for having to exaggerate these claims of corruption about the prosecutor general's office in order to get this guy fired.

BARTIROMO: Yes.

GIULIANI: But now they wanted the Biden case to be dismissed.

BARTIROMO: Yes, OK.

GIULIANI: Now, let me tell you what that proves.

BARTIROMO: But then we have got to get to what you're doing and what the president did.

(CROSSTALK)

GIULIANI: Biden is lying about the fact that there was no investigation.

Or at least there is direct proof that there was. I have actually seen the documents.

The real shame of this is, I put this out six months ago, and the Washington press didn't pay attention to it. I announced it. I talked about it.

Where's the FBI been for a year-and-a-half this has been out there?

There's two standards here, Maria, and that's really the deeper question.

Now, if you want to talk about my role, I am defending a client who was falsely accused of Russian collusion. They came to me and said, it's really ironic, Mr. Mayor, that there was no Russian collusion. The collusion was in Ukraine.

BARTIROMO: Yes.

GIULIANI: The collusion was in Ukraine. And It was bought and paid for. It was done by Hillary Clinton, the Democratic National Committee.

They told me the name of the person that was the intermediary. I have interviewed...

BARTIROMO: But if you are President Trump's personal attorney, why are you having all of these meetings with Ukrainian officials?

GIULIANI: Because they had an alternative explanation to what happened that cleared my client. That's what you do as a defense attorney.

Did you ever watch "Perry Mason"? Perry Mason goes and investigates and proves who really did the murder. So, let's say I was investigating -- I was representing someone for murder, and someone came to me and said, we really know who did the murder, but the police won't listen to us.

BARTIROMO: Yes.

GIULIANI: I would have to go investigate it myself, because -- and they were also telling me they didn't trust the FBI, which is a shame.

(CROSSTALK)

BARTIROMO: Well, Congressman Devin Nunes joined me on Friday on "Mornings With Maria" on FOX Business, and he connected the dots in terms of why the president was so interested in getting to the bottom of what went on in Ukraine.

Listen to Devin Nunes. He joined me on Friday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DEVIN NUNES, R-CALIF.: That's number one.

Number two, people have to understand that the origins of the Russia investigation begin in Ukraine, OK? Now, this is only slightly in the weeds, but I think most of your viewers know Fusion GPS, the firm that was paid by the Democrats to dig up dirt on the Trump campaign, most of their dirt, original dirt, if you go back to the so-called Steele dossiers, comes from Ukraine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BARTIROMO: So if I go back to the actual transcript of the call between the president and the Ukraine president, the president says, do me a favor. We want to get to the bottom of this.

Is that what he's talking about, the 2016 origins of the probe?

GIULIANI: Yes.

If you notice, Biden is just an afterthought, only four lines on Biden, 178 lines on collusion in general.

What I was told was that this collusion began in Ukraine, that there is evidence of people in the Obama administration telling the Ukrainian officials to dig up dirt on Trump going back to as early as January 2016. There are witnesses to this.

BARTIROMO: Right.

GIULIANI: Look, I can't determine if it's true or not. But if this isn't investigated, it would be a major scandal. Then...

BARTIROMO: Were you working alone, or were you working with others to try to get information on the probe in Russia...

(CROSSTALK)

GIULIANI: On this particular thing...

BARTIROMO: ... in Ukraine?

GIULIANI: I wasn't trying to get dirty information on Biden. Biden was in our way. Biden had the prosecutor fired who was investigating the collusion.

That prosecutor, the new prosecutor, bought and paid for, who is corrupt, dismissed the case on Hunter Biden. And dismissed a case on a company called AntAC.

And that's where a lot of the dirty information, including false information, came from.

And if you think I'm just making this up, the American swamp media avoids the fact that, in December of 2018, a Ukrainian court found that there was illegal interference in the election. They named the particular parliamentarian who was guilty, and they say it was information illegally given to the Hillary Clinton campaign.

That is a court decision, not Rudy Giuliani, but a Ukrainian court. And I have four more affidavits like this. These are people willing to go under oath that say that false information and dirty information about the Trump campaign was given to the American Embassy, the Democratic National Committee, operatives for Hillary Clinton, and The New York Times.

BARTIROMO: So this goes back to the origins of the Russia probe, and the president wanting to know how all of this started in terms of...

GIULIANI: So, you are -- you are -- you are...

BARTIROMO: ... getting into the dossier?

GIULIANI: I'm representing you, and you're charged with bank robbery.

BARTIROMO: Yes.

GIULIANI: And somebody comes to me and says, no, no, no, she didn't do the robbery, they did, but the police have been covering this up and not looking at it for a year.

What would I do? I'd go get the facts first. I'd get them in affidavits, not like the whistle-blower, who doesn't know anymore. I have that many affidavits.

And if you want to go find them, Google them.

BARTIROMO: Yes.

GIULIANI: I put them online, so everybody could be challenged to look at them.

BARTIROMO: Let me ask you this.

Look, we all know that President Trump has his own approach in doing things. He says what he wants. He brings up things that he wants to bring up.

But you just said it moments ago. You are the former U.S. attorney. You are a former U.S. attorney. You are a former prosecutor. You are a former elected official.

What advice are you giving to the president in terms of what he should and shouldn't be saying? You know better in terms of -- yes, in terms of...

GIULIANI: I know better what?

(CROSSTALK)

GIULIANI: ... something wrong?

BARTIROMO: Well, bringing up Joe Biden.

GIULIANI: No. No.

BARTIROMO: A lot of people will say it's not impeachable, it's not impeachable; however, it was in bad form for the president to ask another leader of a country...

GIULIANI: Oh, it was in bad form to ask the leader of another country to investigate a vice president of the United States who appears to have...

BARTIROMO: Who is his opponent politically.

GIULIANI: OK. You say that.

He's also someone who looks like he may have sold his office in the Ukraine, disgraced the United States, made it impossible for us to combat corruption in the United States.

How could Obama have ever sent Biden there to say he's going to take on corruption in the Ukraine, when his son is working for one of the most crooked oligarchs in Ukraine? And doesn't that hurt the relations between the United States and Ukraine?

I can't help it if Biden will be a candidate for president someday. That doesn't give him immunity from being investigated.

BARTIROMO: There are people on the Republican side as well...

GIULIANI: The Republican -- Republican...

BARTIROMO: ... who are saying, you know what?

Here is one right here, when you have got Senator John Kennedy. "I wish he would shut the heck up."

There are people even on the Republican side who are saying, Rudy is coming out and putting all of this information out there in rambling interviews and making the president -- putting him in a bad spot.

Pompeo is upset with you, apparently. A.G. Barr said, I shouldn't be lumped into the same situation as the president's personal lawyer. I am the attorney general.

Is that what's happening? Is there a blurring of lines here?

GIULIANI: No, there isn't a blurring of lines here.

I am representing the president, and I am bringing out facts that the swamp wants to cover up. I knew the moment Biden was mentioned that it would be more difficult to do this, because they'd all circle the wagons and try to protect him.

The reality is, if the president of the United States hadn't asked for an investigation of this, he wouldn't be doing his job under Article 2, Section 3 of the Constitution.

Just because Joe Biden is a protected Washington creature doesn't mean that the serious allegations of a pay-for-play pattern, $8 million to his son from Ukraine, when he's supposed to be straightening out corruption in Ukraine, $1.5 billion from China, when he's supposed to be dealing with Saklan (ph) Islands and tariffs, these are things that relate to the foreign policy of the United States.

They relate to the credibility of the United States. And you don't get away with doing this...

BARTIROMO: Hold on.

GIULIANI: .. just because you're a candidate for president.

BARTIROMO: Hold that thought. We're going to take a quick break.

GIULIANI: Because every crook would run for president.

BARTIROMO: We're going to come right back. More with Rudy Giuliani when we come back.

Follow me on Twitter and on...

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BARTIROMO: Welcome back. I am back with President Trump's personal attorney, former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani.

There are testimonies that are going to be coming. We know that the Democrats are looking for Bill Barr to recuse himself.

They are looking to subpoena. They have subpoenaed Secretary of State Mike Pompeo.

Have you gotten subpoenaed? Are you expecting to testify? What's next?

GIULIANI: I have not been subpoenaed.

When I am, or if they call me and ask me if I would testify voluntarily, I will take that matter up with client.

I mean, they forget about the fact, because they have no regard for constitutional rights, and they treat President Trump as if he has no constitutional rights, I'm his attorney. There's something called attorney-client privilege.

That has to be considered, even if they don't think he should have attorney-client privilege.

Would I be willing to explain this openly, and did anybody do anything wrong? Absolutely not. The only thing done wrong here is...

BARTIROMO: Did the president...

GIULIANI: The only thing done wrong here is the cover-up of these charges for three years that are very, very serious.

These are very serious charges. And they're backed up by sworn affidavits. And they're online. And the Washington press corps trying to protect Biden like they protected Clinton -- and beyond that, the pattern, there is a pattern of pay-for-play.

It includes something very similar to what happened with the Clinton Foundation, which goes to the very core of, what did Obama know and when did he know it?

In December of 2015, The New York Times wrote an article, a scathing criticism of Biden, for putting his son in this conflicted a position and compromising his ability to deal with corruption, which, by the way, should be a concern of a future -- wait, wait, wait.

BARTIROMO: Yes.

GIULIANI: Should be a concern of a future president.

The question is, when Biden and Obama saw that article about how the son was pulling down money from the most crooked oligarch in Russia, did Obama call Biden in and say, Joe, how could you be doing this?

BARTIROMO: Yes, I understand that.

GIULIANI: Did he have any controls?

BARTIROMO: But the reality is, is that the Democrats have the majority in the House. That means they have subpoena power. That means they are running the show.

What are you going to do about this?

GIULIANI: Maybe -- maybe -- maybe -- maybe -- maybe...

BARTIROMO: The fact that there was wrongdoing done in early 2016, they don't -- they're refusing to look at.

GIULIANI: It would be nice to my -- if -- I say to my fellow Republicans, it would be nice, instead of attacking me, the messenger, without knowing what really is involved, if you would give me the benefit of the doubt before you attack me, and you take a look at what I have.

BARTIROMO: Right.

GIULIANI: How about -- how about -- how about don't -- we have hearings?

I mean, suppose it was alleged that Donald Trump Jr. got $8 million from a crooked oligarch in Ukraine? How long would it take for the Democrats to investigate us? And how long would it take for The Washington Post and The New York Times to have glaring headlines?

And until we cure that, we're going to be a divided country.

BARTIROMO: Yes.

GIULIANI: And until our Republican friends realize that we're really not in bad faith, that this is really serious, and that I am concerned, as I have been from the time I was an assistant U.S. attorney.

I find the sale of public office to be disgusting. And they weren't hiring Hunter Biden. There are a hundred reasons why they weren't hiring him, including the fact that he's a troubled young man who shouldn't have been put in that position. They were buying Joe Biden.

And if he didn't see that, then he's blind. And if Obama didn't deal with it...

BARTIROMO: Yes.

GIULIANI: ... then he's not the kind of president Donald Trump is, who takes Article 2, Section 3 of the Constitution seriously.

BARTIROMO: Yes.

GIULIANI: And maybe these Republicans should give him and me the benefit of the doubt.

BARTIROMO: All right, quick break, and then we have got more with Rudy Giuliani.

Plus, I'm going to speak with the ranking member of the House Judiciary Committee, Congressman Doug Collins, coming up, along with Congressman Mike Turner.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BARTIROMO: I'm back with Rudy Giuliani.

Did President Trump hold back aid to Ukraine because he wanted them to investigate Joe Biden and his son?

GIULIANI: Isn't the best answer to that the telephone conversation?

Although the Democrats said that, falsely, before it came out, and Schiff pretended that he did in that ridiculously falsified thing that he did at the beginning. You -- look at the transcript.

Is there any mention of military aid? No. Did you hold back the aid? No.

BARTIROMO: Did you work with other lawyers?

GIULIANI: I have never -- in my discussion...

BARTIROMO: Did you work with other lawyers, Victoria Toensing, Joseph diGenova, to try to get dirt on Joe Biden?

GIULIANI: No.

I didn't work with anybody to try to get dirt on Joe Biden. The dirt on Joe Biden was handed to me by the Ukrainians, amazed that the FBI hadn't asked for this a year early, completely shocked and worried that our system of justice was flawed, because Joe Biden announced it publicly.

And if you're a lawyer at all, what Joe Biden announced was, he offered something of value, $1.2 billion loan guarantee...

BARTIROMO: Right.

GIULIANI: ... in order to get the prosecutor to take official action. That's the crime of bribery.

And the motive is, if you at least interview the guy, to cover up the case on his son. There were also, by the way, I believe, three other affidavits of different prosecutors, some of them not friendly to this prosecutor...

BARTIROMO: Right.

GIULIANI: ... saying the same thing. Now, that's what we have investigations for. But that's a lot more evidence than this piece of nonsense.

BARTIROMO: But, Rudy, the bottom line is, you're not getting that on the Democrats' side, and they are in charge.

(CROSSTALK)

GIULIANI: I don't care about the Democrats' side.

BARTIROMO: What are you going to do to get...

GIULIANI: I care about the American people.

BARTIROMO: But they're -- they know what went on and the origins of the Russia probe.

GIULIANI: What am I supposed to do? Keep silent? But, Maria, what are...

(CROSSTALK)

BARTIROMO: Where are the indictments? Where are the prosecutions for the people who actually did wrongdoing in the 2016 elections who tried to frame Donald Trump?

GIULIANI: That's a very good -- that's a very good question.

BARTIROMO: Where are they? Have you spoken to Bill Barr about this?

GIULIANI: That's a very good...

BARTIROMO: Where is this?

GIULIANI: That is a very good question, and that's the question we should keep asking.

And the reality is, before they start criticizing me, the question should be, what have they done about it? Where's the Republican Senate investigating extremely serious charges about the former vice president, who I know is a member of the club?

But members of the club don't get to put their sons in positions where they make millions and millions and millions, where you have to be an idiot not to know the son was trading on the father's public office.

BARTIROMO: Yes. Well...

GIULIANI: That is disgusting for a Democrat or a Republican to do it.

BARTIROMO: I have been asking the question about China. I have been asking the question about China for a long time now, the fact that Hunter Biden got $1.5 billion from the Bank of China after he took that ride on Air Force Two with Vice President Biden.

GIULIANI: China -- now, China, I have to say, I didn't investigate. I don't have the affidavits.

BARTIROMO: OK.

GIULIANI: Here, I have all the proof.

BARTIROMO: Yes.

GIULIANI: What I understand about China is, he was actually in a partnership with the Bank of China and Whitey Bulger's nephew.

Now, if you're not going to investigate that, if the Republicans don't have enough courage to investigate that, then we're not really even representing the American people effectively.

BARTIROMO: Yes.

GIULIANI: The reason -- the overriding reason for doing this is, if a vice president did this, and compromised us in China and in Ukraine...

BARTIROMO: Yes.

GIULIANI: Now, the Chinese government knows why they gave the money. They weren't hiring Hunter Biden's expertise.

They were buying Joe Biden. And, by the way, for the price of that, they also got John Kerry's stepson.

It's coincidental that they put the money there?

BARTIROMO: Yes. Yes. No, I know China's ways, and I -- we have reported and reported it over and over.

GIULIANI: You can't just say, oh, we're not going to look at...

BARTIROMO: I understand.

GIULIANI: ... that because it's part -- he's one of our guys, he's part of the club.

BARTIROMO: You made your points.

Rudy Giuliani, it is good to have you this morning. Thank you.

GIULIANI: And it's so much similar to the Clinton Foundation...

BARTIROMO: Yes.

GIULIANI: ... that there's a pattern here of pay-for-play. And I'm not going to be silent about it because they intimidate me.

BARTIROMO: We will leave it there.

GIULIANI: They are trying to intimidate me. They can intimidate me all they want.

And the reality is...

BARTIROMO: Yes.

GIULIANI: ... this is because I represent the president of the United States. I want to show that he's innocent.

And I have to admit, I'm disgusted by what I see. And I'm worried about my country having a double standard.

BARTIROMO: We will leave it there.

Rudy Giuliani, thank you.

We will take a break.

When we come back, Congressman Doug Collins is the ranking member on Judiciary. He will be up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BARTIROMO: Welcome back.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi announcing the start of an impeachment inquiry into whether President Trump abused his power when he asked Ukraine's president to look into a political rival.

Joining us right now is Georgia Republican Congressman Doug Collins. He's the ranking member of the Judiciary Committee in the House.

Sir, it's good to see this morning. Thanks so much for joining us.

REP. DOUG COLLINS, R-GA: Hi, Maria. It's always good to be with you.

BARTIROMO: You just heard my conversation with Rudy Giuliani, I hope.

Give us your reaction to this inquiry into impeachment.

COLLINS: Well, first off, let's start, Rudy is a passionate defender of this president.

He's watched this president be attacked for over three years, and he is simply doing what an attorney is supposed to do. And he's presenting that. That's his job.

But let me go back to what's going on in the House and where this is at right now. This week, we saw a dark day in the House. We saw Speaker Pelosi abuse her oath of office, if you would, by abusing the role of the speaker by saying an impeachment inquiry had started.

And they were sending it to the Intelligence Committee, where you have a gentleman who has a habit of lying about the facts, Mr. Schiff. And what that means is, though, is, they have decided to walk down a path in which they are in contrary to American values. They're not going to allow this president to have due process. They're not going to be fair.

They're going to ramrod this thing through because -- and I heard a member of House leadership this morning say on another network that they wanted to -- he wanted to have an inquiry, but he wasn't ready to vote for impeachment.

The reason is, if they were truly serious about that, they would bring it to floor, they would have a vote, and then there would be fairness, and the American people can know that this wasn't just simply a Democrat ramrod of this president.

That's the problem we're seeing right now, Maria.

BARTIROMO: So, what does that mean, though? I mean, what does that mean for this impeachment inquiry? Where does this go? Does the president -- is the president in jeopardy of being removed from office?

COLLINS: No, he's not in jeopardy of being removed from office. He's in jeopardy of having to continue the onslaught of lies and attacks and half- truths from a one-sided investigation in the House.

This is something, from my position as ranking member of the Judiciary Committee, all you had to watch is our committee completely fall apart under investigation. In fact, any time they have been allowed to have -- we have allowed to have investigations, whether it be the Mueller report or these ridiculous hearings that Chairman Nadler's had in Judiciary Committee, it has always tended -- has shown that the president has done nothing wrong.

There were -- the collusion was a false narrative, the conspiracies. All these things were false when you actually investigate. So now they have decided, let's throw that out the window, because that's not working for us. Fairness is not working. Being on the right side of the American people is not all right. So we're just going to ramrod it through. That's what's happening right now.

BARTIROMO: Look, I want to ask you about the whistle-blower and the rules around a whistle-blower.

We know that, in the actual transcript, we see that -- and the actual complaint, rather, the whistle-blower says, I do not have direct knowledge of this. That is in the complaint. But I was told this and I trust the people who told me.

What are the rules around the whistle-blower in terms of what that person can charge?

COLLINS: Well, that's what's really been interesting here in the last little bit, because we have been finding out that the whistle-blower rules, especially in the intelligence community, seem to have been changed.

And they have been changed from requiring and demanding a firsthand account or an actual knowledge, firsthand knowledge of the abuse or the misuse of issues in the intelligence community, to now where they can have secondhand information.

If you look at the whistle-blower report, even besides the transcript and everything else, comparing the two is really interesting, because it seems to be a very well-written document, multisourced. If this was a piece for The New York Times or The Washington Post, that's not -- be what you expect.

But you don't expect this and what comes in the form as a legal document accusing the president of doing something in a legal fashion and doing so from secondhand information.

Now, as we go forward here, is that going to be the standard that has been changed now in the intelligence community where basically anybody there can take any report that they want to over the watercooler, wherever, and decide to file a complaint?

This is more serious than this. This president and our country deserves better than what we're seeing right here.

BARTIROMO: They may deserve better, but, Congressmen, that's not what's happening.

The Democrats are in charge, and they are going to be investigating this. And they want the president out of office. What are you going to do about it, as the ranking member of Judiciary?

COLLINS: Well, it's been a really interesting week, because it seems like the Judiciary Committee, as they -- again, in this ramrod that Speaker Pelosi, in, frankly, just degradation of the House rules, is saying now, well, we're going to do an inquiry with not being an inquiry into the Intelligence Committee. We're going to keep following the rules.

But we're also going to say this. In just the next few weeks, I think we're going to see the inspector general report of the Department of Justice come out. We're going to go back to the real area that we need to be concentrating on here is how this actually got started.

Hopefully, the Senate will be having hearings. And I know Lindsey Graham will be doing that. And we will be looking at this. And they're going to have to deal with the entire picture. They're rushing to judgment, Maria.

Keep this clearly in mind. They're rushing to judgment because they know time is running out. And they're desperate for this president not to win next year.

BARTIROMO: Are we going to see indictments?

COLLINS: This is the derangement syndrome in the House right now.

BARTIROMO: Are we going to see indictments, prosecutions of the people who did the wrongdoing coming out of the FISA abuse story and after the I.G. report? Where is the -- where is the accountability?

COLLINS: Well, the accountability, I think, is coming.

You see all of the major players are continuing to scramble, making up stories on how they were really just doing their job. It sounds very similar to, oh, I didn't do anything. Don't look over here.

I think Bill Barr, the inspector general, Mr. Durham are all looking into this. And I do believe that this is coming. And this accountability will happen, Maria.

We have been talking about it a long time, but it's time to stop the -- basically, the harassment of this president.

BARTIROMO: OK.

COLLINS: It's time to for the House to do what they need to be doing. And that is get back to the people's business.

BARTIROMO: Congressman, thanks so much. We so appreciate your time. I'm looking forward to having you once again come back soon.

Thank you, sir.

COLLINS: All right, Maria, take care.

BARTIROMO: We are going to be talking with the former Attorney General Michael Mukasey about this coming up, as well as Congressman Mike Turner. So, stay with us on this.

Meanwhile, we want to take a look at Iran right now. Iran is blasting the United States for restricting the movements of prime minister -- Javad Zarif during his visit to the United Nations. Tensions are escalating in the Middle East following the strikes on the Saudi Arabian oil facilities.

The U.S., Saudi Arabia and other allies are blaming Tehran for that attack, and warning from President Trump during his address to the General Assembly last week, calling in world leaders to act against Iran's -- quote -- "bloodlust."

Joining us right now is the former prime minister of Qatar. He is Qatari Prime Minister Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Thani. He's also the former minister of foreign affairs of Qatar.

And, Mr. Prime Minister, it's good to see you again. Thanks very much for joining us.

HAMAD BIN JASSIM AL THANI, FORMER QATARI PRIME MINISTER: Pleasure, Maria.

BARTIROMO: Do you believe Iran is responsible for the attacks on the Saudi oil fields?

AL THANI: I don't have the fact of this.

But I think all the tension in the region, it is related to each others, from Yemen, to Lebanon, to Syria, to Iraq, to the tension between the U.S. and Iran.

I think all this is related together. And there is acts from both sides.

BARTIROMO: What -- if you were to find out definitively that Iran was behind that, would you push back against Iran?

Because we know that one of the issues in terms of Qatar and the boycott that we have seen among the GCC countries was because of Qatar's support of Muslim Brotherhood, of Iran.

AL THANI: Well, let me tell you one thing.

When all this started -- the boycott started again Qatar, the siege started, we have no ambassador in Tehran, and we have no diplomatic relation with Tehran, because we were supporting the Saudis at that time, and we pull our ambassador from Tehran.

So anyone would like to say that we have a different relation with Iran than the other neighbors that's part of the lies which they did against Qatar, and, by now, everybody know that.

I think there is many GCC countries have more -- better relation with Iran than Qatar, especially that we have a major difference with them about Syria.

But we always, we always have been in opinion in that the problem with Iran have to be solved diplomatically and through negotiation between the GCC and Iran.

I don't think that we should try to see if there is a tension with the United States and we ride in the same seat. I think this tension with the United States, it seems to me, it's an opportunity for the GCC to arrive to a solution with the Iranian, and that basic -- that no interference on both sides.

BARTIROMO: There is a feeling that the U.S. pulling out of the Iran nuclear deal is one of the underpinnings for Iran's more aggressive provocations.

Do you believe that to be true? Do you blame the United States in any way for Iran's provocations because of the pullout of the Iran nuclear deal?

AL THANI: Well, I think to pull out of agreement, it's not -- not something usually respected, because if you have done an agreement with Iran, I think both sides have to fulfill their agreements.

And we know that United States pull out. And when they pull out, they say why they want to pull out. And I think with the Iranian and with their policy -- and we are talking about intelligent people in Iran dealing in this matter -- it should be done differently.

I think if there's worries with the United States and the region about some of the points in this agreement, or they need to extend it for a few years, I think there is a different approach to the Iranians than the approach which has been taken now.

BARTIROMO: Give us -- give us -- let's put this down for granted. You are not the prime minister of Qatar anymore.

AL THANI: That's true.

BARTIROMO: But from your stance in terms of the Qatari position with the United States, the Qatari position throughout the Middle East, what is your stance right now on the United States?

AL THANI: Well, as you know, we always historically have good relation with the United States.

And there is some time when there is a lot of -- a lot of mistakes or a lot of wrong information being given to the United States, as you say, about the Islamic Brotherhoods or any other stories from our neighbors

BARTIROMO: Well, do you not support the Muslim Brotherhood in Qatar?

AL THANI: We did not support them, but we are not against them.

(CROSSTALK)

BARTIROMO: Can you say categorically that Qataris do not support Iran and do not support terrorism?

AL THANI: First of all, I am not the prime minister of Qatar, but I can tell you we didn't support any act of terrorism.

That is against our -- our principle. And we are a small monarchy. And I always say, we would like to see a peaceful neighborhood. And for us to touch anything against the law or international law is something not accepted and dangerous.

BARTIROMO: So, real quick, before you go, what is the answer to stabilize the region, whether you look at Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Syria, Yemen?

AL THANI: Well, I think, first of all, the -- serious diplomatic dialogue is important.

Unity of the GCC could help. And there is no unity in the GCC now to lead negotiation, like what we did with Yemen when Ali Saleh stepped down. There was a GCC opinion in that, and there was an initiative from there.

Our problem now, the GCC is broke down almost. And, also, we didn't have same understanding or same ideas about how we can tackle the problems in the region.

BARTIROMO: All right, Mr. Prime Minister, it's good to see you again. Thanks very much.

AL THANI: Pleasure.

BARTIROMO: Sheik Hamad joining us there.

We will be right back with former Attorney General Judge Michael Mukasey.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BARTIROMO: Welcome back.

Speaker Nancy Pelosi slamming Attorney General William Barr now over the DOJ's handling of the whistle-blower complaint. She says he's -- quote -- "gone rogue."

Let's bring in former attorney general himself, Judge Michael Mukasey.

Your Honor, it is always a pleasure to see you.

MICHAEL MUKASEY, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Pleasure to see you.

BARTIROMO: Thank you so much for joining us.

Your thoughts and reaction to what Nancy Pelosi's saying about A.G. William Barr?

MUKASEY: That's outrageous.

He's gone rogue? The whistle-blower complaint is basically a compilation of secondhand information from the press and secondhand information about what the man claims he was told, period.

The notion that, somehow, he didn't handle that properly, there's a long memo saying, essentially, that the I.G., the inspector general, to whom this document was sent, had absolutely no obligation to transmit it to Congress, because he's the inspector general for the intelligence community.

And the president is not a member of the intelligence community. He's not the Lone Ranger. He is the inspector general for the intelligence community.

BARTIROMO: Right.

MUKASEY: And he's not -- he has no jurisdiction to deal with the kinds of issues that this so-called whistle-blower was raising.

BARTIROMO: But why would the president say to the Ukraine president, I'm going to have Bill Barr call you?

You know, even -- even Bill Barr was upset -- or, apparently, reportedly, annoyed that he was put into the same bucket as President Trump's personal lawyer.

MUKASEY: Look, why he said it, I have no idea.

But he is known for having occasionally an indiscreet relationship with the English language. There's no doubt about that.

But the point is Mr. Barr never talked to the Ukrainians. The president never talked to Bill Barr about talking to the Ukrainians. There's a press release from the Justice Department that came out the same day as the conversation that says that.

It says also, by the way, that this matter and the underlying investigation of who provided information to the FBI about Manafort, and whether any of that was done unlawfully, that's being investigated by John Durham.

BARTIROMO: So you're say that what the president was trying to do was better understand what was going on in early 2016 when they tried the frame him and why so much information from the dossier was coming from Ukraine.

MUKASEY: Correct.

His first reference in the conversation, when he says, "I need a favor," it wasn't a reference to Biden at all. It was a reference to the server, i.e., the Democratic National Committee server, and why that wasn't turned over to the FBI and so on.

Had nothing whatever to do with Joe Biden.

BARTIROMO: All right.

We should take a short break. And then we're going to come back with Attorney General Michael Mukasey.

I have got to get your take on how you see this in terms of, did the president do anything wrong? Did Hunter Biden and Vice President Biden do anything wrong? And, also, what about Horowitz and Durham? When are we going to see the latest there?

So, stay with us.

More with Attorney General Michael Mukasey next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BARTIROMO: Welcome back.

As we told you earlier, Speaker Nancy Pelosi is slamming Attorney General William Barr over the DOJ's handling to have whistle-blower complaint.

Earlier, I said she says he went rogue. She wants him to recuse himself. Should Bill Barr be recusing himself in all things related to Ukraine?

MUKASEY: On what basis?

(LAUGHTER)

MUKASEY: I mean, her response is, I guess, because I said so.

The president said in this -- in the transcript that he was going to talk to Barr, and ask him to call the Ukraine. There was a press release issued by the Department of Justice the same day that the conversation came out saying that the president never talked to Barr about the Ukraine, that Barr never talked to the Ukraine about Biden or anything else.

That's the end of it. There is no basis for him recusing himself, based on a statement by the president that he was going to talk to him.

BARTIROMO: Michael Mukasey, you are a voice that is independent and we can trust.

Did the president do anything wrong here that the American people need to understand?

MUKASEY: Wrong meaning illegal?

BARTIROMO: Yes.

MUKASEY: No.

He's -- suggesting that he was talking to a foreign leader about getting information that might be useful to him in an election is probably indiscreet. It is not, as far as I know, unlawful under any statute that I'm aware of.

BARTIROMO: What about Joe Biden? He was vice president, and he did take his son on Air Force Two. They traveled to China. They obviously were in the Ukraine. Did he do something wrong?

MUKASEY: Wrong unlawful?

BARTIROMO: Yes.

MUKASEY: Don't know.

Depends on what he did. The fact is that his son apparently got a job with a Ukrainian gas company, a business he knew nothing about, with no demonstrable credential, other than that he was Joe Biden's son. Joe Biden also demanded that a prosecutor be fired who was investigating that company.

BARTIROMO: Yes.

MUKASEY: Now, whether that was a criminal violation or not is up -- is a matter that needs investigating. But, certainly, it was indiscreet.

BARTIROMO: All right, we will leave it there.

I want to get your take on the I.G. report that's coming out soon.

But we will have to wait.

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