Rudy Giuliani on Darren Wilson breaking his silence

This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," November 25, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MEGYN KELLY, HOST, "THE KELLY FILE": Breaking tonight, less than 24 hours after a grand jury announcement sparking the most destructive riots we have seen in this country in years, and at last the man at the center of this historic national episode speaks out. For the first time, Ferguson police Officer Darren Wilson in his own words.

Welcome to “The Kelly File,” everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. This is a live look at Ferguson, Missouri, tonight, much of that city in ruins after riots exploded last night. Demonstrators enraged by a grand jury's decision after three months of considering the case do not indict Officer Wilson in the death of Michael Brown. Now the protests spreading nationwide to half a dozen cities. Look at this melee here in New York City. Police surrounding one man. And when he starts to fight, others jump in. Some throwing punches at the cops. Look at this. Unbelievable. And now tonight for the first time we hear from Officer Wilson, that he felt he had to shoot Michael Brown because he believed that Michael Brown would kill him. Watch.



and hit me in the left side of my face.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Because you know, some of the witnesses have said
that they saw you trying to pull him into the car.

WILSON: That would be against every training every taught to any law enforcement officer. I just felt the immense power that he had. I mean, the way I've described it, it was like a five-year-old holding on to Hulk Hogan, that's how big this man was. When I said get back or I'm going to shoot you. And then his response immediately, he grabbed the top my gun.

And when he grabbed, he said you're too much of a (bleep) to shoot me. And while he's doing that, I can feel his hand trying to come over my hand and get inside the trigger guard and try and shoot me with my own gun. And that's when I pulled the trigger for the first time.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Why not stay in the car, he's running away?

WILSON: Because he's not -- my job isn't to just sit and wait. You
know, I have to see where this guy goes.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So you felt it was your duty to give chase?

WILSON: Yes, it was. I mean, that's what we're trained to do. When he stopped, he turned, and faced me. As he does that, his right hand immediately goes into his waist band and his left hand is a fist at hisside and he starts charging me.

STEPHANOPOULOS: What did you think when you saw that?

WILSON: I didn't know. I mean, my initial thought was, was there a weapon in there?

STEPHANOPOULOS: Even though he didn't pull something out earlier when he was confronting you?

WILSON: It was still just the unknown. And again, we're taught to let me see your hands.

STEPHANOPOULOS: As you know, some of the eyewitnesses has said that when that moment he turned around, he turned around and put his hands up.

WILSON: That would be incorrect -- incorrect.


WILSON: No way.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So you say he starts to run, starts to come towards you. And?

WILSON: At that time I gave myself another mental check, can I shoot this guy? You know. Legally, can I? And the question I answered myself was I have to. If I don't, he will kill me if he gets to me.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Even though he's what, 35, 40 feet away?

WILSON: Once he's coming in that direction, if he hasn't stopped yet, when is he going to stop?

STEPHANOPOULOS: And you're absolutely convinced when you look through your heart and your mind that if Michael Brown were white, this would have gone down in exactly the same way?



WILSON: No question.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You and your wife -- I don't even know if this word is appropriate any more. But what is your dream going forward?

WILSON: Like I said, we just want to have a normal life. That's it.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You have a very clean conscience.

WILSON: The reason I have a clean conscience is because I know I did my job right.


KELLY: Joining us now with reaction, former New York City mayor and former Republican presidential candidate Rudy Giuliani. Mr. Mayor, good to see you tonight.


KELLY: Your reaction to what we just heard right there?

GIULIANI: Quite powerful. That would have been testimony in front of a jury that would have been very, very hard to convict this man. But here's the amazing thing. I read some of the testimony today. If you look at witness number ten, not identified by name or by race, but I'm pretty sure an African-American from the discussion. He corroborates every single thing that that officer just said including the fact that no one put their hands up. In fact, he came forward because he was angry and offended that people were lying about the fact that he was shot in the back and that Brown had put his hands up.

KELLY: Wow, that's amazing.

GIULIANI: And he describes exactly the same thing. The reaching in, the shooting, the fact that the police officer got out of the car. The police officer yelled to Brown. Brown, instead of stopping, ran toward him. The police officer shot him two or three times. When Brown stopped, the police officer stopped shooting. And all of a sudden Brown put his head down and came at the police officer, he said, something like a bull, you know, with his head down as if to come right into him. And that's when the fatal shots were probably shot into the -- and he came forward because he was so offended by the lies that were being told. You remember, there were four witnesses who said that Brown was shot in the back.

KELLY: Not true.

GIULIANI: Which are total lies. If that's --

KELLY: One said that the cop -- Officer Wilson was standing over him shooting him.

GIULIANI: Yes, totally untrue. So again disproven completely by the autopsy and the forensics. I mean, I disagree with the prosecutor on only one thing. I would prosecute all those people for perjury.

KELLY: Wow, really?

GIULIANI: Well, I mean, to testify falsely in a case in which you can put a man in jail for the rest of his life is an extremely serious --

KELLY: But you know how unreliable eyewitness testimony is. I mean, I think his belief is according to him is, it's just unreliable and so these people may believe they saw what they didn't see.

GIULIANI: It's not unreliable. These are people who were friends of his, these are people who have an ax to grind. You know, it's not unreliable that you think you saw hands go up when in fact his hands were down all the time.

KELLY: So will it make any difference? Will his on-camera testimonial and the fact that he's backed up not by one but by several African-American witnesses, I mean, I want the viewers to know that, because we are told by some that this is all about race. And African- American witnesses came forward to say it is not the way folks are telling you. It is the way the officer, it is the way the white officer is telling

GIULIANI: Seven witnesses corroborate his testimony, three of them corroborated completely. The others corroborate portions of it.

KELLY: But does it make a difference? I mean, they're still on the streets. They still burned dozens of places.

GIULIANI: I don't know if they care. I think the racial arsonists in this country have worked these people up so much with propaganda that facts don't matter. Justice doesn't matter. It isn't justice to put an innocent man in jail. Also every time that Mr. Brown is described, is described as a young man, and people forget he had committed a robbery. In fact, the police officer in his testimony says that Brown took some of the cigarillos and pushed them in the car, and said, you know, take these, actuallyproving that he was the robber that the police officer was looking for.

KELLY: Well, one of the things that jumped out at me in this interview is how young Darren Wilson seems, he's 28-years-old.

GIULIANI: He's a kid.

KELLY: He was ten years older than Michael Brown, but he's not some seasoned cop who's been on the beat for 30 years. He, too, is a young man.


KELLY: Who found himself in a very dangerous situation that was not of his own making.

GIULIANI: This should be described as a police officer who shot a man who had committed a robbery. It shouldn't be described as a police officer who shot some innocent young boy. He shot a man who had just committed a robbery. Now, it's either justified or not, and the facts suggest that it's justified. The second thing the prosecutor had to be absolutely aware of is he couldn't possibly have won this case at trial.

KELLY: Right. With all that evidence that supported the police officer, but I want to get this thing because we're short on time. What we've seen in Ferguson last night, so far is much more peaceful tonight. They finally sent in the National Guard that's been there for a week. Why did that happen last night?

GIULIANI: I don't know. When I was watching your broadcast last night, having had to deal with riots and being very proud of the fact that I had none in the time that I was mayor after two in the years that preceded me, they did one of the most -- biggest mistakes you could make. They allowed a cooling off period or a venting period. Remember, all that time that rocks were being thrown and cars were being overturned and --

KELLY: Police were holding back.

GIULIANI: Police were backing off. The rule is, you can protest all you want. Make all the noise you want. Carry all the signs you want. The minute you throw a rock, you get arrested. The minute you break a window, you get arrested. The minute you break into a store, you get arrested.

KELLY: You make an example out of the early law breakers.

GIULIANI: The Gigante (ph) Report that was written in 1993 says, a cooling-off period becomes a heating-up period and it's supported by academic research by James T. Rosen.

KELLY: You think this Governor Nixon is in over his head?

GIULIANI: He looked to me tonight like a very nervous man, not like a man who feels like he's in charge of this situation. That can just be my impression from having dealt with lots of emergencies. I didn't hear a lot of clear black line rules about what he expects tonight. What he should have told the people tonight is, you can protest, but if you throw a single rock, the first one that does it is going to jail and the second one and the third one and I have enough jails for all of you. So, you want to protest, we're not breaking any windows, we're not breaking any buildings, we're not burning anything.

KELLY: We're not breaking any laws.

GIULIANI: You're all going to jail. And if I need 50,000 cops here and National Guard, they'll be here to do it.

KELLY: Yes. He's under fire from his own lieutenant governor tonight. And he will be joining us, the lieutenant governor live in just a bit. Mr. Mayor, great to see you.

GIULIANI: Thank you, Megyn.

KELLY: Thank you, sir.

GIULIANI: And great coverage last night by the way.

KELLY: Thank you. I appreciate it.

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