Rudy Giuliani: Cohen 'tampered' with Trump recording

This is a rush transcript from "Justice with Judge Jeanine," July 28, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

JEANINE PIRRO, HOST: Breaking tonight, President Trump's attorney, Rudy Giuliani with explosive allegations regarding the Michael Cohen tapes.

Hello and welcome to "Justice," I'm Jeanine Pirro. Thanks for being with us tonight, and thank you for once again making "Justice" the number one rated show on all of cable news all last weekend.

My opening statement in a moment, but first, Rudy Giuliani within the hour has told Fox News that experts have gone over the tape that former Trump attorney Michael Cohen allegedly made of conversations with the President and Giuliani says quote, "Somebody played around," close quote, with the tape.

He says the Trump legal team is still trying to get to the bottom of it. Among other things, Giuliani said he is trying to get access to the original full recording. A prospect Giuliani concedes is slim.

And joining me now via phone on all of this breaking news is the man himself, President Trump's attorney, Mr. Mayor Rudy Giuliani.

All right, good evening, Mr. Mayor. Thank you so much for being us this evening. Some shocking news tonight.

RUDY GIULIANI, COUNSEL TO PRESIDENT TRUMP: Yes, Judge. We have to stop being shocked. I have to admit that I was. I always thought of Michael Cohen as a responsible guy who was basically honest and certainly was extremely loyal to the President and the President was to him for many, many years.

I used to hear rumors about him about his character and some of the things he did, and now I find he does things like record his client and doesn't tell him. He abruptly ended that recording as soon as the President said the word check. We are now -- what we are investigating is how did that happen? What actually did happen? What was eliminated? And then you have got to raise that question with every one of these tapes. How many of them did he play around with?

I mean the guy has like 180 tapes and Lanny Davis, his lawyer said he didn't intend to deceive. I don't know who is a bigger liar. I mean, Lanny Davis has to confront the fact that with Chris Cuomo, he took his phone and he put it in the desk drawer and said, "I'm not going to record it." What do you mean you are not intending to go deceive? I don't know -- these people -- these Clinton people think they can just say something. He didn't intend to deceive, but we got him on tape putting it in a drawer.

PIRRO: Well, Mr. Mayor, you and I both know -- you are a former prosecutor, I'm a former prosecutor, you have got to lay a foundation for the admissibility of any tape. And what struck me the first time I heard the tape and we'll get to how CNN got it in a moment, was, you have to number one, make sure that it's admissible in evidence if it's recorded with the permission of one of the parties, and it was because Michael Cohen recorded it. It was unethical, because he's the lawyer, but that's another issue.

Then we have to lay a proper foundation. Anyone listening to that tape knows that all of a sudden, it's cut off, garbled at a crucial period of time when the President seems to be saying "No, no, no, no, no, you make a check out, we don't use cash."

GIULIANI: Yes, yes, yes.

PIRRO: And nobody asked any questions about it. You and I both know they cannot tamper with this. But the only way for us to figure out if this is accurate is for you to get the original tape. How are you going to do that?

GIULIANI: Well, we've got to hope it exists. This could be a recording of a recording, we're not sure yet. That they can probably determine. You are right. We may never be able to determine that, but we have determined the fact that he tampered with the tape in a sense that he abruptly, mid- conversation turned it off.

Now, we know he didn't do that for a good reason because a guy that goes into a reporter and hides his thing and says, "I'm not taping it," and then is taping it for two hours, it's definitely not someone who didn't intend to deceive as Lanny Davis falsely said.

PIRRO: Well, in addition to that, he's lying, but that's another issue. You and I both know that in order for the government to admit something into court, they've got to show its continuing custody and that no changes or additions or deletions have been made.

If they cannot prove that there are no deletions or changes, and we don't know where it's been, could that be the reason it was leaked to CNN and do you have any idea how it got to CNN?

GIULIANI: Well, isn't that interesting because last week at this time, Jay Sekulow and I were being accused of leaking it. Maggie Haberman who got the story, to her credit made it clear that it didn't come from us. There's only one other place it could come from, Cohen and Lanny Davis. And people wondered, "Well, why did they put it up?" Because it's harmful to Cohen.

I think they put it out because they wanted the redacted version to obscure whatever else might be on that tape, which will be very -- I'm sure will be good for us. That I think is lost to us. It was never recorded in the first place. I was hoping he had possibly erased it, and we could maybe recover it, but it was never -- it was never recorded in the first place.

PIRRO: Well, Mr. Mayor, everybody knows you can't tamper with stuff.

GIULIANI: And you know, Judge, we can draw an inference from that -- that it was favorable to us, because of the way in which he was deceiving us.

PIRRO: That's exactly right. That's exactly right. Rudy Giuliani. I want to thank you for calling in with this breaking news.

GIULIANI: Hey, great book, Judge.

PIRRO: Thank you.

GIULIANI: I'd gone through half of it now. You gave me a copy.

PIRRO: Thank you.


GIULIANI: And give about three or four other -- great book.

PIRRO: I appreciate. Thank you so much and I know you're going to have more to say tomorrow morning on "Fox News Sunday."

GIULIANI: Yes, I will be on Chris Wallace tomorrow.

PIRRO: All right. And now, to my "Opening Statement." Americans elected the outsider business President, why? To borrow a phrase from the man himself, "What do we have to lose?" The economy was in the tank, our kids were living in the basement because they couldn't find a job. Factories were closing down. Jobs in manufacturing were being shipped overseas and in trade, China was sucking us dry.

The Obama folks called it a healthy economy, but there was barely a pulse. One percent annual GDP growth was the new normal for these bozos and President Obama even warned that Donald Trump's election would result in economic disaster for all Americans.


BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Because some of those jobs of the past are just not going to come back and when somebody says like the person you just mentioned who I'm not going to advertise for, that he's going to bring all these jobs back. Well, how exactly are you going to do that? What are you going to do?

There is no answer to it. He just says, "Well, I am going to negotiate a better deal." How exactly are you going to negotiate that? What magic wand do you have? And usually the answer is he doesn't have an answer.

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER FIRST LADY: Because I want to you tell your friends, don't let a friend vote Trump. So here is the deal. He can't escape the math. Math can be kind of inconvenient if it doesn't add up the way you want it to. And economists left, right, in the middle, all say the same thing that Trump's policies would throw us into a recession. The last thing we need. He would undermine the growth that we have had since the great recession.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the event Donald wins, I have no doubt in my mind the markets tanks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His tax plan in combination with his refusal to reform entitlements and honestly address spending would balloon the deficit and the national debt. So, even though Donald Trump has offered very few specific economic plans, what little he has said is enough to know that he would be very bad for American workers and for American families.


PIRRO: And then there was Paul Krugman, a Nobel Prize winning economist, writing for the "New York Times" let me say that again, he is a Nobel Prize winning economist and here is what he said, "The stock market will plummet and never recover from the election of Donald Trump. So we are very probably looking at a global recession with no end in sight."

Some are so blinded by their hatred of Donald Trump that they forget decades of training in their own field. And as America surges forward with more jobs than people to fill them, with African-American and Hispanic unemployment the lowest in history with millions coming off of food stamps because they want to work. The left, while they rant and protest and create chaos.

They throw people out of restaurants and off television shows, they even go to church and say that God sent them to destroy Donald Trump. The left doesn't care about our economic success. All they want to do is make noise, but it's nothing more than background noise. White noise. The truth? Nobody is paying attention to them. Donald Trump's numbers continue to increase, his popularity just keeps going up. And after he met with Putin and was accused of everything from collusion to treason, an offense by the way punishable by death, his numbers continued to go up.

When are they going to realize that their yelling and screaming is nothing but a distraction, nobody cares. We care about food on the table, paying the rent, the mortgage, paying for kids' clothing, for school. But no, they want to talk about whores and porn stars or about a lawyer who they are squeezing so tight he'll confess to sinking the Titanic.

And yet, despite a media focused on a whack-a-mole Trump-Russia collusion nonsense and the haters continuing to hate, the outsider president has thundered forward with his America First agenda.

And with a kryptonite proof aura of invisibility, the 45th outsider President often working without the support of his own party has produced a GDP that no one thought possible, 4.1% and we are on track to hit the highest average growth rate in over 13 years. What have you got to say to that, Barack, Hillary and all you geniuses? We are flying folks. This is the America Donald Trump had in mind when he asked us, "What do you have to lose?"

That's my open. Tell me what you think on my Facebook, Twitter and Instagram #judgejeanine.

And if you loved my open, you will love my new book, "Liars, Leakers and Liberals: The Case Against the Anti-Trump Conspiracy." It's a New York Times number one best seller. So go out and get your copy if you haven't already. And I you have, I thank you.

And here with reaction to my opening statement and much more, White House Deputy Press Secretary, Hogan Gidley. All right, Hogan, talk to me about the economy and my open.

HOGAN GIDLEY, DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY, WHITE HOUSE: You're absolutely right, Judge. You remember when Donald Trump was elected to be President of the United States, so many people said the economy wouldn't just tank, but it would never recover from what he would do to this economy.

And here we are now with 3.5 million jobs created. Regulations cut. We are open for business. This President has gone on the global stage and said other countries now have to pay their fair share when he did that in NATO to our friends and allies, and said, "Folks, we are the piggy bank of the world, it stops today." That's also important and listen, I was in Granite City, Illinois with President when he gave that speech to the steel plant, US Steel.

I watched the tears stream down the faces of grown men who looked at the President, who told me, they hadn't had a job in two years because Barack Obama told them those types of jobs were gone and would never come back,
1.9 % GDP growth as you just said in the open, that was the quote-unquote "new normal" experts would say.

Now, we're hovering at 3%, this President has proved people wrong yet again. Americans are back to work. It's an incredible time in this country and it's all due to this President's economic policy.

PIRRO: I have to tell you, Hogan, it really touches my heart and every American that people who want the work, people who pay their taxes, who follow all the rules, they are the ones who deserve the effort of this government, but -- and speaking of that, I want to talk about the abolition of ICE.

It seemed that the Democrats had pulled back on it because they were doing polls and most of the American people, I mean, there's a huge number not in support of the abolition of ICE. Then, just a couple of days ago, we have got Ocasio-Cortez, the socialist who beat Joe Crowley in New York for Congress, the primary, and now Kirsten Gillibrand, they are now saying we have got to abolish ICE. They are back to that song and dance, they are serious.

GIDLEY: It's incredible. Anyone who wants to abolish ICE, these Democrats either A, have no clue what ICE actually does or B, have decided to ignore the safety and security of their own constituents.

ICE are on the frontlines for MS-13, the dangerous blood-thirsty brutal gang. They are ones who protect commercial air travel. They focus on child smuggling, on human trafficking, drugs -- all of those things, they are there to stop that. This President comes out and stands up for the hard working men and women that put their lives on the line every day that work for ICE and Democrats say, "No, we are going to stand with MS-13 whose motto is kill, rape and control." It is absolutely insane.

PIRRO: It's crazy. I want to get to one more thing because we're coming up against a break, the remains of American soldiers from the Korean War are now coming back. How many administrations before Donald Trump tried to get the remains of American soldiers?

GIDLEY: There have been several, but this president actually delivered. Remember, the Democrats mocked and derided him for even talking to Kim Jong-un. They said, these things that he promised would never come fruition and here we are on the precipice of getting the repatriated remains of those people in the military.

I talked to some folks who served and their surviving loved ones and they told me, this gives them a sense of pride, a sense of peace and closure that they never would have had but for this president, tough negotiations, getting those remains back in this country. It's amazing.

PIRRO: Well, it is amazing, Hogan Gidley. And it's all about closures for these poor families. And kudos to the president. Thanks so much for being with us, Hogan.

GIDLEY: Thank you, Judge.

PIRRO: All right Dan Bongino and Chris Hahn standing by on the panel. But next, more on tonight's breaking news as you heard exclusively from Rudy Giuliani right here. Next, Congressman Ron DeSantis weighs in on the Trump-Cohen tapes and the explosive new allegations from the President's attorney. Don't go away.

Breaking tonight, you heard the news right here on "Justice" minutes ago, President Trump's lawyer, Rudy Giuliani telling us explosive new details how they believe quote, "somebody played with the Trump-Cohen recording."

Here with reaction to this and the other big news stories of the week, Congressman Ron DeSantis who joins me now. All right, good evening, Congressman, first time I heard that tape and then there was a break at the point where it seemed to be in the President's favor and then all of a sudden, it was garbled, as both a prosecutor and a Judge, I said to myself, "That would never be admissible." And lo and behold, it's sent over to CNN. What's your take on what's going on as they try to get forensic analysts to figure if this tape has been toyed with and yet, they can't get the original tape at this point to see if it has been?

RON DESANTIS, HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Well, good evening, Judge and congratulations on the book. I know it's selling very well. I know you're going to be down in Florida, so congrats on that.

PIRRO: Thank you.

DESANTIS: Look, this whole thing is just very, very strange. I mean, some of the questions involving the tape. Why he would have been doing this? And now, he's got -- Lanny Davis is a Democrat, a big Clintonista and he's working with Lanny on this. I just don't know how much credibility any of that evidence is ultimately going to have.

PIRRO: Well, obviously, the damage is done to the extent you see this damaging. I didn't because of my background, but they leaked it, so it's not even an issue of whether or not they can lay a proper foundation to admit it at trial. They've admitted it to the public and if they want to impeach they could say, "Oh, you know about that tape," when you and I both know, it wouldn't be admissible in court.

But I want to talk about my favorite guy there, Rod Rosenstein, the guy who is basically running the Department of Justice after he convinced Jeff Sessions to go hide in the closet somewhere. Now, you guys wanted to impeach him and as I understand it, there was a resolution to have the guy impeached based upon what facts?

DESANTIS: Well, a number of things. I mean, one, he should have recused himself from this. Remember, he wrote the memo saying Comey should be fired. He also signed one of the FISA extensions for Carter Page. Those are both critical issues in terms of some of the information we are trying to get and then he has consistently stonewalled the Congress. They've redacted material facts from documents that were provided to Congress.

So, this has just not been adequate cooperation with the Congress. These are very important issues that the American people have a right to.

So, Congress only has limited tools. I think the issue with the impeachment is there weren't enough Republican votes for it. I would have liked to have seen us pursue contempt of Congress against Rosenstein because I think that could have been done quicker. It would have required the Senate to ultimately vote "yay" or "nay" on it.

Well, the problem is Congress is now gone for the August recess, and so that is not going to be a viable vehicle at this point until sometime in September, and by the time all of that -- even if it did get off the ground, I think it may be too late, so we need to get this stuff soon.

PIRRO: I know, we need to get it done, but here's the problem. Paul Ryan wouldn't get on board and as I understand it, he didn't want this impeachment to go through or contempt of Congress. Here is the bottom line, am I somewhat right about Paul Ryan and the leadership? Because you come on every week and all your friends come on who are congressmen, and you are trying to do it. Somebody is stopping you. Who is stopping you?

DESANTIS: Oh, I think the leadership was definitely opposed to my resolution.

PIRRO: Leadership as in Paul Ryan. Say his name.

DESANTIS: Oh yes, sure. Absolutely, I think the speaker was opposed to it. Now, getting some of this stuff short of that. I think that could be done and I just don't know why that hasn't happened yet. You do have people like Nunes who are pushing, Jim Jordan, Meadows, myself, but ultimately, we have certain issues with involving what surveillance happened before July 31, 2016 of Trump's campaign? What informants were used? How did Crossfire Hurricane start? What about the dossier? Those are easily answerable questions from the Department.

PIRRO: I agree, look -- plus he threatened congressional staff. All bad stuff. Congressman deSantis, thank you so much. And Candace Owens is still on deck with this week's most of outrageous statements.

But next, these two guys just can't get enough of each other. Chris Hahn and Dan Bongino keep coming back for more. The panel is next and the fireworks are about to begin. You don't want to miss this.

MARIANNE RAFFERTY, CORRESPONDENT, FOX NEWS: Live from "America's News Headquarters," I am Marianne Rafferty. The White House today approving Federal aid for California as the state battles 14 wild fires. In northern California, the Carr wild fire near Redding almost doubling in size overnight, killing five people so far.

Meanwhile, in southern California, a man charged with arson for starting a fire still burning in Riverside County. Officials say hundreds of structures are destroyed, thousands more still at risk and tens of thousands of people have been forced to evacuate.

And Pope Francis accepting the resignation from Cardinal Theodore McCarrick, former Roman Catholic Archbishop of Washington, DC from the College of Cardinals. This comes as decades' old claims of sexual abuse including one involving an 11-year-old boy prompted the Pontiff to strip McCarrick of his ministry. I'm Marianne Rafferty, now back to "Justice with Judge Jeanine."


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've accomplished an economic turnaround of historic proportions. When I came into office, 1.5 million fewer prime-age Americans were working than eight years before, but we've turned it all around. Once again, we are the economic envy of the entire world.


PIRRO: That's President Trump talking about the incredible news about the economy on Friday, and a lot to talk about with my panel tonight, so let's get right to it and see what they think. NRA TV contributor, former aid to Chuck Schumer and radio show host, Chris Hahn join me live. Back up a second -- it's former NRA TV contributor, Dan Bongino and Chris Hahn. All right, Chris, how are you going to wiggle your way out of what the President said. -- 1.5 million fewer prime age Americans who are working than eight years before he came into office?

CHRIS HAHN, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, look, I will give him some credit for the economy, maybe not as much as he's giving himself. He didn't inherit a mess. The economy has been on an upward trajectory for the last 10 years, and I do give him some credit for it. I also give credit for the fact that a lot of people were front loading their exports, worrying about a potential trade war, and we'll see what happens.

Don't forget, President Obama had four quarters that were better than this and he created more jobs in the last 18 months of his Presidency than President Trump has created in the first 18 months of him. And we'll see where we wind up. Quarterly growth does not necessarily equal a great end of year number.

Obama learned that in 2014 where he had a 5.1% growth in the second square and then over 4% growth in the third quarter, he lost seats in the midterms, and they were at 2.9% at the end of the year.

PIRRO: It's all about sustainability, Chris, and Obama couldn't do it, but Dan, what's your response?

DAN BONGINO, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: I agree, well, Chris is a little confused. President Trump did inherit a mess. The fact speak for themselves. Guys, this is a fact. I know Chris sometimes has a tough time with these things, but Barack Obama is the only president in United States history to never in two terms by the way, reach 3% GDP growth annually at any point in his presidency.

Keep in mind, one-term Presidents have done it. He's the only one over. Cumulative GDP growth, he's also at the bottom. He's one of the top five worst economic presidents in American history, and by the way because I know Chris is going to try to wiggle out of this one. He was wrong about the GDP numbers, Judge on our debate three weeks ago. Barack Obama harmed him a 1.9% growth rate in the final quarter and 1.6% the final year, Trump turned it around right away. He was wrong about it.

PIRRO: Did you call him up and tell him he was wrong, Dan?

HAHN: My 2014.

BONGINO: I didn't want to bother him after the show, I thought he might be sleeping or having hot cocoa or something.

PIRRO: Go ahead, Chris.

HAHN: I've got to go get ice cream for my daughter after the show, but here's the deal. Here's the deal. My numbers are dead on for the second and third quarters of 2014.

PIRRO: So, you admit your errors.

HAHN: Let's not count -- no, hold on, let's not count our 3% growth before it hatched. President Trump did not achieve that last year, he may not achieve it this year; 2.9% is almost 3%. Obama got 2.9%, I think President Trump is going to be between 2.9% and 3.1% this year. If he gets 3.1%, I'll say hooray. But let's not count our chickens before they are hatched and let's not give all the credit to him.

Obama did not leave him a mess. It was a booming economy. People were going back to work and we have been on an upward trend for years.

PIRRO: Go ahead, Dan.

BONGINO: Yes, well, listen, that's just not true. Chris, he handed him a mess by any measure. Now, listen, I will agree with -- I'll give you this. I don't give any president good or bad credit for the economy. I give to it American entrepreneur. I think the President can do things to get the government out of the way, and I think that's what Donald Trump has done through the tax cuts and cleaning up the regulatory mess Barack Obama left us.

But Barack Obama, Chris, it was a disaster by just about any metric. Labor force participation, wage growth, and by the way, I -- the liberal talking point, which I am surprised you didn't bring up, all wages aren't growing under Trump. That is not true.

PIRRO: That isn't true.

BONGINO: The employment cost index, which is a proxy for it, Donald Trump, his first year, bested Barack Obama's eight years. He has never reached that those measures.


HAHN: Okay, (inaudible) on these wages.

PIRRO: Go ahead, Chris.

HAHN: There's a long way to go between here and the end. Look, there's a long way to go between here and the end, one thing we could say about President Obama is--


PIRRO: Okay, I have an idea, guys, I have -- hold on Chris, I can't yell tonight, I have a sore throat. Listen, here's the bottom line.

HAHN: Thank God.

PIRRO: How many people -- what that I don't have a sore throat or I'm getting to the bottom line?

HAHN: No, that you can't yell at me. I want you to feel better.

PIRRO: Here's the bottom line. Thank you. Here's the bottom line. My mother just called me during the break and she says to me, "Jeanine, you have to have some water." If the unemployment is the lowest it's been ever for African-Americans, for minorities, we have got more jobs than people to fill them. You could talk GDP until the cows come home. That's what matters. A job and the ability to take care of your family. But I want to move on now, I want to talk about this tape. Well, Chris, do you want to answer? Go ahead.

HAHN: Well, I mean, just look, there is a lot of good and there is also a lot of caution. The deficit and the debt are growing dramatically.

PIRRO: No, the deficit is fantastic.

HAHN: And that could lead to problems long term.

PIRRO: Go ahead, Dan.

HAHN: That's the trade deficit. Not the budget deficit, those are different things.

PIRRO: Go ahead, Dan.

BONGINO: I give up. Don't tell me on a Saturday night I have to shave for this and I'm going to -- and you're going to let him get away with this. Listen, for eight years, we had to deal with Barack Obama and record deficits -- the media, the limbs -- Hahn probably celebrated, "Oh, it's the greatest thing ever. Debt and deficit." Now, it's Donald Trump -- listen, I get it. Chris, I'm with you. Debt and deficits stink. Point stipulated. But please spare us the nonsense about debt and deficit after eight years of Barack Obama.

HAHN: Obama -- he reduced the budget deficit every year.

BONGINO: Folks, this is the "scam" he's pulling. Chris always has a scam. He came into office with the highest annual deficit in American history. Chris, if I owe $700,000.00 and make $50,000.00 a year and pay down $25,000.00. This is not an accomplishment. That's what Obama did. He ran historic deficits every year.


BONGINO: Stop pretending otherwise.

PIRRO: All right, guys. I want to thank Chris Hahn and Dan Bongino. Thank you. Now, how did a former attorney general make my list of the week's most outrageous statements? That's ahead. But next, more on the Trump-Cohen tape. Alan Dershowitz joins me and you don't want to miss him.

GIULIANI: We are now -- what we're investigating is -- how did that happen? What actually did happen? What was eliminated? And then it raises that question with every one of these tapes. How many of them did he play around with?

PIRRO: Developing tonight. That was President Trump's attorney Rudy Giuliani minutes ago on "Justice" discussing the breaking news on the Trump-Cohen tape. Joining me now with reaction, author of the new book "The Case against Impeaching Trump." It's a great book, a great read, I bought it, I read it. Harvard Law professor emeritus, Alan Dershowitz.

Now, Professor, I always read your articles in "The Hill," and yesterday you wrote an a very interesting piece on how an obstruction case against President Trump should raise a flag for any civil libertarians out there irrespective of which side of the aisle they are on. Tell me why.

ALAN DERSHOWITZ, PROFESSOR, HARVARD LAW: Well, what they are trying to do is stitch together an obstruction case based on public tweets on the exercise of First Amendment rights. People don't obstruct justice in public. If you are going to obstruct justice, you are going to do it in private.

The idea the special counsel is trying to put together a case -- he knows he doesn't have a case. There is no smoking gun. He's trying to put together a case based on tweets, public statements, Presidential statements, Presidential actions -- that is so dangerous to civil liberties.

Today it's being used against Trump, tomorrow it will be used against Democrats and the day after tomorrow, it could be used against any of you in the audience. Every civil libertarian ought to be outraged that the idea that special counsel, if this report is true, is trying to cobble together a case against President Trump based on his tweets and his public statements.

PIRRO: Professor, would you also agree that when some of the judges were looking at the travel ban, they were looking outside the four corners of the ban itself, to other things that the President may have said or not said. This is fundamental contract law. Everything is within the four corners of a contract or based on what is relevant to the specific issue. Would you agree with that? Because if you don't, tell me.

DERSHOWITZ: I completely agree. The Supreme Court, yes, in a five to four decision, but nonetheless a majority of the Supreme Court said what the President said about the travel ban is not as important as what's in the words of the travel ban. You can't have a travel ban that would be constitutional if President Obama issued it, but the same words would be unconstitutional if President Trump issued it.

PIRRO: All right.

DERSHOWITZ: You have to look at the words of the travel ban. You have to look at.

PIRRO: We agree. We agree. I want to talk about Rudy Giuliani. He was just on. It was breaking news. And he talks about the tape that there is a break in the tape. Its gets muddled and the first thing I thought was, "What's going on with this?" What are your thoughts on it?

DERSHOWITZ: Well, about 10 years ago, I represented the former President of Ukraine who was charged with a serious crime. I went over to Kiev and it was based on a tape, and we were able to get the tape and put it through all kinds of forensic analysis and prove that they switched words from the tape and made him say things that he didn't say. I don't know that that's happened here. All I know is this tape must be subjected to forensic analysis.

We must stretch the words to find out exactly what the President said, what the context was, and most of important, why it ended at a particular point. Was that a decision made by Mr. Cohen to end it there? Was it erased because he said things that were exculpatory. We need to know the entire context of the tape if the tape means anything.

By the way, the tape does not contain any evidence of crimes. How do I know that? A former judge appointed by Judge Kimba Wood made a determination that this tape is covered by the lawyer-client privilege, and criminal discussions are not covered by the lawyer-client privilege.

So we already have a judicial determination that this tape does not contain elements of a crime.

PIRRO: So, Professor, you are talking about, I assume Barbara Jones, the master on this who would not have handed over the tape if it were not covered by attorney-client privilege.

DERSHOWITZ: Absolutely right, and nobody has made that point and it's very important. You already have a judicial determination that it's covered. It's not criminal.

PIRRO: It's not a crime. Go ahead, Professor.

DERSHOWITZ: No, it's not a crime to seek advice from your lawyer as to how to deal with a complicated situation. We all -- every lawyer has had conversations like this with clients. In the end, the client listens to you, but nobody should have heard this tape and we have to find who leaked it.

PIRRO: Okay, I agree, and that's why you are a Harvard professor because you are so smart, Alan Dershowitz. Thanks for being with us. And she loves those outrageous statements. Candace Owens from Turning Point USA standing by live to run down the craziest things that were said this week. It's next, you don't want to miss it.

PIRRO: Maxine Waters always has a lot of outrageous things to say when it comes to President Trump, but this time she actually suggests in a church sermon that she was sent by God to stop him. Take a listen to this.


MAXINE WATERS, US REPRESENTATIVE, CALIFORNIA, DEMOCRAT: I am here to do the work that I was sent to do and as Pastor said to me when I came in this morning, when God sends you to do something, you just do it. I head back to Washington tomorrow morning, I'm going to tell them the Pastor told me to come here and just do it.


PIRRO: Turning Point USA Communications Director Candace Owens joins me now with reaction to that and much more. All right, Candace, so you know what? I keep hearing that the left is on God's side, isn't God on the right?

CANDACE OWENS, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, TURNING POINT USA: Listen, I can't even imagine that she said this. It's so bizarre. This is a woman that advocates for violence. She tells people to go up to and to accost Trump supporters when you see them in the street, when you see them in restaurants. I don't believe this is what God wants exactly. I don't recall that exact scripture. What do you think, Judge?

PIRRO: I don't recall it either and honestly, I do read the Bible to be honest with you, and I must tell you, the claim that God is on their side and at the same time calling for at the very left, harassment of public figures is shocking. All right, let's go to the next one. Chelsea -- no, I'm going to Holder. Do we have a sound on that? Sound on tape. Go ahead.


STEPHEN COLBERT, AMERICAN COMEDIAN: Are you seriously considering throwing your hat in the ring for 2020?

ERIC HOLDER, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE United States: Yes, I'm thinking about it and what I've said is that I'd make a determination sometime early next year.


PIRRO: All right, so that's former Attorney General Eric Holder being asked by Colbert, "You are seriously considering throwing your hat in the ring for 2020?" Now, what's outrageous about that to me is, this is a guy who was held in contempt of Congress for failing to hand over documents, sound familiar, in the fast and furious scandal where our guns were sent by his department to the Mexican cartel.

OWENS: That's exactly correct. He quite literally has blood on his hands. I mean, remember Brian Terry was the ICE patrol agent that was killed in this fast and furious scandal and Eric Holder played a part in this. So, it is ridiculous. He was held in contempt of Congress. The on sitting Cabinet member ever to be held in contempt of Congress, and he is talking about running again.

It's almost as if the left only runs criminals. I can hear the chant, "Lock him up," all over again in 2020. I hope he runs. He has a right to think about running, but he shouldn't think about winning.

PIRRO: You know what's interesting also about Holder is that he never recused himself on any of this stuff. So when Congress holds him in contempt, there is no one to refer it to in the Department of Justice because he was the Department of Justice. You see, the left is always smarter. They hang on to the power while the right, Sessions is in a closet somewhere, but that's just me.

All right, let's talk about Chelsea Handler. All right, Chelsea Handler tweet. Chelsea Handler, verified account quick question by Chelsea, "Is the man who vandalized Trump's star on the Hollywood walk of fame single?" What say you, Candace?

OWENS: This is not even that bizarre when it comes to Chelsea Handler. She's done much worse. This is a woman that advocates on behalf of MS-13, who is okay with Molotov cocktails being thrown at the Palestinian border. This is par for the course. At the end of the day, her career ended and she has nothing else to do throughout her day but send wacky tweets in the hope that somebody will give her attention. Look, I hope they do get together. I hope they do date. I mean, that will be the most thing that she has going on in her life, period.

PIRRO: All right, and finally as we go forward closer to the 2018 midterms, do you think this is going to get worse?

OWENS: What's going to get worse? Everything?

PIRRO: No, the outrageous statements, which is what we love having you on for.

OWENS: Of course it is going to get worse. It is going to keep getting worse. This is their strategy going to 2018 midterms. I can't imagine it getting much wackier. Look, Maxine Waters, it always seems to get much wackier, with Chelsea Handler it always seems to get much wackier.

PIRRO: They're both great for this subject and this segment. Candace Owens, thanks so much.

OWENS: Thank you, Judge.

PIRRO: All right, and we'll be right back. And finally tonight, I'm excited to say my new book, "Liars, Leakers and Liberals: The Case against the Anti-Trump Conspiracy," is number one on the New York Times bestseller list. Number one on the Washington Post bestsellers list.

I want to take a moment to thank everyone who has been so supportive, especially all the folks who took the time to come out to my book signings. Take a look. I've got some pictures.

Remember -- well, here we are in the White House, the Oval Office with the President in Washington and then a book party. There is Sarah Huckabee Sanders in Washington, Kellyanne Conway at the book party in DC. Tom Fitton, you know him from the show; Jared Kushner and Donald Trump, Junior in Washington and Wilbur Ross, last night, Cabinet Secretary in Southampton.

Also, Lally Weymouth in South Hampton. Oh there's the mayor himself, Mr. Giuliani and former Attorney General, Mike Mukasey, also a federal judge and friends of mine from Montreal, ML, Alvin and Stacey who came from Montreal and there is Pamela Gross also held a party for me and there is from Washington, DC, United States Senator Lindsey Graham.

And Eric Trump, Junior along with Lara Trump in New York City with me and there I am in North Valley, New Jersey at a book signing that so many people who waited in line for. And there is a crowd when I first came in and then in Smithtown, Long Island -- the Zere family, look at the stuff they cooked for me and about 300 people last night in Smithtown -- two nights ago in Smithtown, and there is the guy I owe it all to, my Sir Lancelot who sat with me as I wrote and wrote and wrote, I owe it all to him.

And remember, if you don't have your copy, you can go to Barnes & Noble or any bookstore. Don't forget to follow me on Twitter. Thank you so much and God bless all of you.

Thanks for watching. I'm advocating for truth, justice and the American way. I'm Jeanine Pirro signing off, Greg Gutfeld is next. See you next Saturday.


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