Rep. Max Rose on stalled COVID stimulus relief: There is a deal to be made

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Rep. Max Rose on stalled COVID stimulus relief: There is a deal to be made

The coronavirus pandemic is not a red state vs. blue state issue, says New York Rep. Max Rose, Democratic member of the House Homeland Security Committee.

This is a rush transcript from "Your World," September 14, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

SANDRA SMITH, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Thank you, Bill.

We are live in Sacramento, California, where President Trump just wrapped a ceremony honoring the California National Guard, as thousands of firefighters are battling dozens of wildfires across the state.

At least 24 people have been killed in California, another 10 in Oregon. The president is blaming poor land management for the wildfires, as Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden is putting the focus on climate change.

And we are following both.

Welcome, everyone. I'm Sandra Smith, in for Neil Cavuto, and this is “Your World.’

We have Fox team coverage now with Claudia Cowan in Sacramento with the latest on the president's visit there, and Jacqui Heinrich with the Biden campaign in Wilmington, Delaware.

We begin with Claudia.

Good afternoon.

CLAUDIA COWAN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Sandra.

The president's visit here in Sacramento just wrapping up. And, as you might imagine, the focus today was as much on climate change as on the wildfires themselves.

Just before he sat down for a briefing with emergency officials, the president doubled down on the role he believes poor forest management has played in these catastrophic fires and pushed back at the idea soaring temperatures may play an even bigger role. Here's that exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WADE CROWFOOT, CALIFORNIA SECRETARY FOR NATURAL RESOURCES: That science is going, going to be key, because, if we ignore that science and sort of put our head in the sand and think it's all about vegetation management, we're not going to succeed together protecting Californians.

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: OK. It'll start getting cooler.

CROWFOOT: I wish...

TRUMP: You just -- you just watch.

CROWFOOT: I wish science agreed with you.

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: Well, I don't think science knows.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COWAN: Governor Gavin Newsom thanks the president for pledging federal help in what he called record time and agreed more needs to be done to clear away dry brush and dead trees.

But he took the president attack on the climate change issue.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CALIFORNIA GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM: There's an area at least commonality on vegetation forest management. But, please, respect -- and I know you do -- the difference of opinion out here as it relates to this fundamental issue on the issue of climate change.

TRUMP: Absolutely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COWAN: The president also took time out to honor members of California's National Guard, who conducted a daring rescue over the Labor Day weekend, airlifting more than 200 campers to safety after they became trapped by a fast-moving fire near Fresno, the president awarding the Distinguished Flying Cross to seven of those heroes.

He is now on his way to a roundtable event with Latino supporters in Phoenix -- Sandra.

SMITH: Heroes, indeed. Claudia Cowan, thank you.

Joe Biden, meanwhile, hitting the president hard on those wildfires, saying the science is clear that climate change is posing an imminent existential threat to our way of life.

Jacqui Heinrich is in Wilmington, Delaware, for us with more on that -- Jacqui.

JACQUI HEINRICH, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Sandra.

Well, Biden slammed President Trump for lack of decisive action climate change, calling him a climate denier who refuses to listen to the experts. And Biden warns that, without action this issue, these catastrophic events will become more deadly, more common, more frequent.

Biden said President Trump's partisan response to these disasters puts the country at risk, referencing reports that Trump tried to withhold disaster relief aid to California because voters there don't support him politically, as well as his comments over the weekend partially blaming local officials for the fires because of improper forest maintenance.

Biden painted the president's position these issues as dangerous and familiar to people who have been affected by disasters before, mentioning Puerto Rico still recovering from Hurricane Maria three years ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is the same president who threw paper towels on the people of Puerto Rico, instead of truly helping them recover and rebuild.

If you give a climate arsonist four more years in the White House, why would anyone be surprised if we have more America ablaze?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEINRICH: Biden also touched on how these crises have disproportionately affected people of color. Biden then touted his own climate plan, pushing back on the Trump campaign's line of attack that it would kill jobs in the fossil fuel industry, saying his plan would actually put more Americans back to work by building modern systems, and also by rejoining the Paris climate accord.

Trump -- he said that Trump ignores facts and denies reality. And, in the end, he repurposed the Trump campaign's line of attack, saying it's clear that people aren't safe in Donald Trump's America -- Sandra.

SMITH: We will have more on that in just a moment.

Jacqui Heinrich, thank you.

My next guest has been dealing with these deadly wildfires.

Daniel Berlant is with Cal Fire, which was represented today at the president's meeting. He joins us now by phone.

Your team met with the president's team, Daniel. A lot has changed in the last 24 hours. What update can you give us from the ground there this morning?

DANIEL BERLANT, ASSISTANT DEPUTY DIRECTOR, CAL FIRE: Well, I can tell you while we have had several days of cooler temperatures and lighter winds, and making good progress.

Today, the winds are picking up, and we're already seeing fire activity increase on a number of fronts. Now, crews have been making real good progress. And so we're hoping that that progress will help hold back some of these flames.

But here in Sacramento County at our air base in McClellan, many of our large -- large air tankers have now taken off, ready to fight those fires.

SMITH: Daniel, I say this morning, because you and I spoke early this morning, and a lot has changed since then.

You talked about the heroic efforts that you're seeing on the ground to fight these fires and in the air, I should add. Tell us about how those crews are doing this afternoon.

BERLANT: Well, many of our firefighters have been battling for weeks in a row, many of them for well over a month.

And so crews are responding fire to fire. They are keep -- doing our best to give them an opportunity to get a break. But this has been a very long firefight.

SMITH: Daniel, something I wasn't able to ask this morning about the growing debate that you heard, obviously, with the president's visit there over what causes these fires, what exacerbates these fires.

Obviously, there's a debate over climate change vs. land management and forest management. What can you add to that conversation, Daniel?

BERLANT: Well, in California, there really is no debate that our fire seasons are getting longer. We are seeing larger fires and more explosive fires.

And, in fact, on average right now, our fire season is, on average, 75 days longer than they were just four decades ago. And so we can debate all we want, but I can tell you, here on the ground, we are seeing fires that are incredibly destructive and incredibly fast-moving.

SMITH: And it is a huge threat to the communities and the people of these areas.

Daniel, you're doing a lot of work there on the ground to keep people safe and fight these fires. We appreciate your time. Thank you.

BERLANT: Thanks.

SMITH: Our next guest says climate change has made it more imperative to manage our forests.

Arkansas Republican Congressman Bruce Westerman is a Yale University- trained forester. He joins us now.

I'm extremely interested in what you have to say, especially after hearing from the president and his team on the ground there this afternoon. What needs to be done?

REP. BRUCE WESTERMAN, R-AR: Well, Sandra, first, I want to say my heart goes out to all those residents on the West Coast.

I have got friends there that said the air conditions are worse than they have ever seen. We're seeing millions of acres of fire go up. And, also, a big thank you to all those with Cal Fire and the others that are fighting these fires.

But the bottom line is, it doesn't have to be this way. We can debate about what the cause is. Sure, the climate conditions are changing. We have got more carbon in the atmosphere.

But trees are the natural carbonator. They're the one tool we have to pull that carbon out of the atmosphere and to reverse the effects of adding carbon. But, also, we have been mismanaging these forests for decades.

And it's going to take time to get them back into the condition where they're not as subject to intense fires, not as rapidly occurring fires. And we can mitigate these damages if we will just apply sound scientific management.

SMITH: You talk a lot about having to take these trees down, but then putting those trees to use.

You have put a lot of thought into using those trees and to green infrastructure, sort of to get over the controversy and the debate around this, so that we can stop these fires from happening. Explain how you would make that work and really appease both sides in this.

WESTERMAN: Well, it's really a win-win situation. I appreciate you pointing that out.

The Trillion Trees Act, which President Trump supports, would look at planting more trees in areas where we can plant them, but also keeping the trees in the forests that we have got healthy, and finding markets, like mass timber, where you're using a lot of wood in buildings.

And this wood actually stores carbon for the length of the building. It would be good for rural economies. And when we look at what we need to do with the forests that are there to make them healthier, that's the biggest impact we can have to avoid these catastrophic fires like we're seeing in the West.

There's four areas we need to target. And I say we need to do triage. And this is in the wildland-urban interface, on transportation corridors, transmission corridors, and in sensitive watersheds. We need to do an all- out effort to thin these forests.

And I'm not talking clear-cutting. I'm talking thinning from below, getting the trees where they're spaced out, so that, when you have a fire, the fire drops down, you can put it out quickly.

SMITH: Yes.

WESTERMAN: And you're not destroying the canopy, like we saw in the Camp Fire in Paradise, where that fire was actually put out when it got to a firebreak, where they had done the thinning.

SMITH: Congressman, I have 20 seconds left.

What do you say to those who say you're oversimplifying it with that solution? Joe Biden is really putting the focus on climate change.

WESTERMAN: I say, let's do something now.

We can talk about climate change, but the most pragmatic, proactive thing we can do is forest management. And we know the science behind it. We know how to make it work. And it's a crying shame that we're not doing it right now.

SMITH: Congressman, I appreciate your time this afternoon. Thank you.

WESTERMAN: Thank you.

SMITH: All right, to Wall Street now and stocks surging on hopes for a new coronavirus vaccine, the Dow up over 300 points today, finishing with a gain of 327, the Nasdaq, the S&P 500 also posting strong gains to start the week.

Pfizer says its coronavirus vaccine could be given to the American people before the end of the year if found to be safe and effective. Pfizer is one of three companies involved in late stage trials. The U.S. government has agreed to pay Pfizer and its partner nearly $2 billion for 100 million doses of the vaccine if it gets the green light from regulators.

Meanwhile, the search continues in California for the gunman that ambushed those two L.A. County sheriff's deputies in their patrol car.

The latest on that investigation -- next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SMITH: Two Los Angeles County sheriff's deputies expected to survive after a gunman ambushed them Saturday while they were sitting in their patrol car.

Now the manhunt is on for the attacker.

Fox's William La Jeunesse has the latest on all of that -- William.

WILLIAM LA JEUNESSE, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Sandra, police will not say this publicly but some believe this ambush was retaliation for some recent police shootings of black suspects in L.A.

Now, the deputies are in stable condition. Doctors say both will survive. Now, the photo you're about to see here is kind of graphic. It's provided by the sheriff's department. It shows the injured deputies covered in blood, one, a 31-year-old mother who was shot in the jaw, her partner, a 24-year-old male officer hit in the forehead, arm and hand.

Now, she reportedly applied a tourniquet to stop his bleeding.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEX VILLANUEVA, LOS ANGELES COUNTY SHERIFF: They survived. And I think they're going to embrace the idea that they were very, very fortunate, both of them, considering how many times they were shot, so they can actually walk away from this and recover.

That's just a miracle.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LA JEUNESSE: Five shots, according to the sheriff. Police posted a $100,000 reward for the suspect, a black male, they say, 28 to 30 years old.

Surveillance video shows the shooter approached the deputies' patrol car. He fires multiple times through the window, then escapes with an accomplice in a Mercedes.

Now, this hours later. Both deputies are in surgery, when protesters shout at the hospital, "I hope you die." They're surrounding the building, carrying a Pan-American flag taunting officers by yelling "Pigs" and "You're next."

Sunday, a counterprotest, police decorating their -- rather, police supporters decorating their cars with blue and black balloons.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's not OK anymore. And we just need to let them know that not everyone's against them, and just keep those two deputies in our prayers and hope that they make it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LA JEUNESSE: So, the surveillance video that we have been watching all day was shot with a fish-eye lens. And so it's distorted. The person is not as small as they appear.

Police are looking at surrounding cameras, however, for leads. The manhunt continues -- back to you.

SMITH: William La Jeunesse, thank you.

Joining us now with his thoughts on all of this, former NYPD Lieutenant Joe Cardinale.

Thank you for being here this afternoon, sir. It is still, as many times as I have seen it, so incredibly difficult to watch that video footage of those two deputies, sheriff's deputies, sitting in their patrol car. And what happened then? How did you react when you first saw that?

JOE CARDINALE, FORMER NYPD LIEUTENANT: Well, just like everybody else, I'm horrified, since some people have -- get pleasure out of this, as, you know, we saw in -- your last reporter.

And it's just getting to a point where it's totally ridiculous. These aren't protesters. Let's get that straight. These are anarchists, right? They are out there for one purpose, to disrupt any form of life as we know it right now.

And for those two officers, it's by the grace of God that they're here today, because the same thing happened to Officer Ramos and Liu in Brooklyn, and they were not so fortunate. And this is what's going to continue as long as we have anarchists controlling the streets.

SMITH: A 31-year-old mother, a 24-year-old man. Both of them were just sworn in to the force 14 months ago. According to the sheriff, they're still fighting for their lives.

We know they have come out of surgery. They're listed in stable condition now. Our prayers and thoughts are with them and their families, of course.

But meanwhile, Joe, the hunt is on, $100,000 reward for any information that will lead to the arrest of this person. Will they find him or her?

CARDINALE: Oh, rest assured they will find them, not just him. They will find them, because there's accomplices as well.

And, Sandra, let's keep in mind that their injuries are severe, and they might be career-ending, and they can be lifelong injuries as far as mental injuries as well. But these individuals, they will be found and they will be prosecuted -- hopefully, they will be prosecuted to the fullest extent in law.

But God only knows what that is today. We don't even know what the fullest extent of the law is anymore.

SMITH: You know, you listen to the police sheriff and the emotion that was coming from the department as they were able to respond to this, talking about the cowardly act that this was, talking about how young these two officers were, and how they stepped in to helped each other.

That 31-your-old mother stepped in, even though she was wounded, to help her partner. You know what that is like. You know how your team members stepped in to help.

But then you see what happened with these protests outside of the hospital in which they were receiving surgery, the protests. And you saw it on the cover of The New York Post this morning: "We hope you die."

Thankfully, there was counterprotests the following day that showed support for the police. But what did you think when you saw those protesters outside of the hospital?

CARDINALE: I mean, it's truly disgusting.

First of all, they shouldn't be allowed near the hospital. Hospitals, churches, police stations, government buildings, they should be kept away and they should be prosecuted for violating a certain perimeter over there, all right?

They're not there to do anything but cause disruption to the hospital. And there are people who are trying to recover in the hospital, not only the police officers, people trying to do business. They have other patients coming in and out. They should be arrested, all right?

They should truly be arrested and prosecuted. But, once again, in this day and age, everybody's allowed to do whatever they want, and they just put it under the guise of protest. And this isn't protesting. This is anarchists.

And this is what's going to continue.

SMITH: Yes.

And, Joe, I go furthermore into the sheriff's words, talking about a somber reminder that this is how dangerous this job is for our men and women in blue, talking about the actions and words. They have consequences.

He went on to say: "Our job does not get any easier because people do not like law enforcement."

It makes him angry. He used a different word. "It dismays me at the same time. There's no pretty way to say it."

Talk about the morale right now, Joe, for the police department, for the ability to retain police officers, for the ability to recruit police officers, and what the future looks like for our men and women in blue.

CARDINALE: You know what, Sandra. I have been with Fox for 18 years now doing these types of stories, and I have never seen as bad as it is right now.

This is a mass exodus in New York from the police department. You don't have the senior police officers conveying to the young officers what's -- what they should expect, how to train them and everything.

And across the United States, it's very hard to be a police officer right now. And yet they get up every day, put that uniform on, they go out there, and they do the best they can under the worst conditions, especially in New York and L.A. and Portland.

We have no support whatsoever from the government, not -- well, the local government, I should say. We have the support from the president, but we don't have the support from local government. I mean, it's amazing that, in one place, you can have a mayor that's also the police commissioner, so he calls the shots on everything. It's ridiculous.

And until we get back to some kind of normalcy -- and I don't even know what normalcy is anymore -- this is going to continue to happen, and it's going to get worse. It's definitely going to get worse.

SMITH: We hear the frustration in your words, Joe. Appreciate you coming on this afternoon. Thank you.

CARDINALE: Any time, Sandra.

SMITH: Well, just weeks after Hurricane Laura battered Louisiana, the Gulf Coast now bracing for Hurricane Sally. Live updates on the storm that's still strengthening -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SMITH: The Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade will look a little different this year.

The retail giant will reimagine the event in a televised format due to the coronavirus, but still promising its signature balloons and performances.

We're back in 60 seconds.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SMITH: Hurricane Sally gaining strength over the Gulf of Mexico.

Fox News meteorologist Adam Klotz with the latest on this slow-moving storm.

Adam, what can you tell us?

ADAM KLOTZ, FOX NEWS METEOROLOGIST: Well, Sandra, it is a slow-moving storm. And it still has time to continue to intensify before we eventually get a landfall sometime tomorrow or perhaps even Wednesday.

I will show you that in just a moment, but, currently, winds at 90 miles an hour. Some of the outer bands of rain of this beginning to hit the Florida Big Bend and stretching across the Florida Panhandle. This isn't the real heavy stuff that's going to begin to deteriorate overnight tonight, and we will see a little bit more of that.

This is the forecasted path. It still has time to jump up to Category 2 hurricane. That's winds up over 100 miles an hour. Upper-level winds are going to grab this and turn it from heading to the west to move it to the northeast. When it turns is going to make a big difference.

It could make landfall as early as tomorrow morning across portions of Louisiana, if it turns a little bit sooner. It's a slow mover. It could take all the way until Wednesday morning before you hit the coast around Biloxi. So this is going to be one we're paying attention to, regardless of when that eventual landfall happens.

There's still plenty of areas that are going to be impacted by a lot of heavy rain, wind, and, of course, that storm surge. We have got all the watches and warnings stretching from the Florida Gulf Coast, getting over towards Louisiana, New Orleans included. Storm surge in some of the hardest-hit areas could be as much as seven to 11 feet of storm surge, just a wall of water being pushed in with this hurricane.

And it won't just be that. It will also be the rainfall. When you get a real slow-moving storm -- and this one currently only at seven miles an hour -- it's going to slow down even more -- that allows it time to just sit overhead and drop a whole lot of rain. So, we have got flood watches across a very large area here, getting well north into Alabama, as this system will be very slow-moving.

Here's some of your rainfall totals. I think, widespread, there's going to be a lot of spots that see anywhere from eight to 16 inches. But there's going to be some isolated areas. And there's still time for this to move to, but, Sandra, isolated areas where we could be talking about two feet of rain, on top of that, all of that storm surge.

So, this is going to be a real mess. And, again, we're looking at mostly taking place tomorrow, but this is going to linger into Wednesday's forecast also.

SMITH: All right, Adam...

KLOTZ: Sandra, back out to you.

SMITH: Adam, thank you for the update.

Meanwhile, mandatory evacuations ordered in parts of New Orleans, as Hurricane Sally approaches.

Fox News correspondent Leland Vittert is there -- Leland.

LELAND VITTERT, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Sandra, good afternoon to you.

New Orleans is preparing for a direct hit. And if that 11 feet of storm surge that Adam talks about actually happens, it would be the first real test of the post-Katrina levee system.

There are now states of emergency from New Orleans in the west all the way back east through Mississippi, Alabama, the president declaring a state of emergency already ready and approving the proposal here for Louisiana.

The big question for everyone in New Orleans tonight is, when, if ever, business will return.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VITTERT: Welcome to Bourbon Street in New Orleans.

During ordinary times, the bars would be opening, the music playing, and good times would be had by all. But these are extraordinary times.

Between the coronavirus and back-to-back hurricanes, the lifeblood of this town, tourism is now on life support. Most of the folks you see are here to board up ahead of the storm.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just not knowing when there's an end in sight. If you had a date where, OK, things are going to turn around starting now, you can kind of pace yourself and be prepared for it. But it's the inconsistency, and it's the just not knowing that can kind of drive you crazy as a retail owner.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VITTERT: Well, Sally is slowing down, as Adam mentioned.

And when you talk about a couple of feet of rain, Sandra, in a town like this and you being -- having spent a lot of time in Louisiana, will understand, that you have a town that's 50 percent below sea level, there's only so much levees and sandbags can do.

SMITH: Eighteenth named storm of the season. That state has gone through a lot already.

Leland Vittert, thank you for the update on the ground there in Louisiana.

Mississippi is also in a state of emergency, as the coast prepares for a direct hit.

Governor Tate Reeves joins us now.

Governor, as Leland mentioned, I did spend a lot of time in the state of Louisiana. People know how to prepare. They know what to expect, or at least they try to.

What are you telling residents of your state, as we don't necessarily know at this point what the next turn that Sally may make?

MISSISSIPPI GOV. TATE REEVES: Well, thanks for having me on, Sandra.

You're exactly right. We in the South, and particularly in Mississippi, have -- for better or worse, we have dealt with hurricanes for many years, obviously, dating back all the way to Hurricane Camille in the late 1960s and Hurricane Katrina in 2005.

But what we're talking about right now is the fact that we look -- it looks like right now that we're going to get a direct hit from this hurricane. Unfortunately, as many people have said, this thing has slowed down in the Gulf of Mexico.

And, typically, when these storms slow down in the Gulf, they tend to intensify. And so we're expecting it to take a sharp right turn and possibly hit Biloxi, Mississippi, as early as about dark time tomorrow. And that's something that our -- we're telling our people that, if you live in a low-lying area -- because, no matter where it ultimately hits landfall, we're going to get significant amounts of rain, and it's going to be a major water event, no matter where it hits along the Gulf.

SMITH: So, that's what you're preparing for.

Manage expectations, as far as the state of emergency for your state has been declared, Governor. What do you do about evacuations and mandatory evacuations?

REEVES: Well, we appreciate President Trump. He just recently approved our state of emergency. And we're very thankful for that.

We appreciate the administration's willingness to be very proactive when it comes to these emergencies. 2020 has been unlike any year, I think, any of us have ever seen with -- in terms of the number of things that we have had to go through.

But, in terms of evacuations, our local governments in Hancock County, in Harrison County, in Jackson County are looking at the mandatory evacuations, particularly in low-lying areas. We are opening shelters in our state.

In fact, we have already opened the medical needs shelter that we have built in Stone County, Mississippi, just about 40 miles off of the coastline. For anyone who has special medical needs, we will have that shelter open. And it's already open, in fact.

And so if you live in a low-lying area in the three coastal counties of Mississippi, the time to get out is now. There's no doubt about that. We're going to get, as was said, as much as 20 to 25 inches of rain in those three coastal counties.

SMITH: Governor, you mentioned the evacuations and the shelters, that you're going to try to accommodate some residents.

Coronavirus and the pandemic have added an entire level of complexity to the hurricane situations. And having this been such a brutal season so far, how are the people in your communities faring? And what's the economy look like? What kind of hit are you taking?

REEVES: Well, we're certainly having challenges in our state, like in other states.

But, remember, Sandra we didn't shut down our economy. For the entirety of this coronavirus, we have had the vast majority of our economy open. We're continuing to gradually and very intelligently open up more and more of our economy.

Just today, in fact, I took restaurants, for example, from a 50 percent capacity limitations up to 75 percent, which allows them to have more people, and while, all the while, we have opened up schools in our state. We have seen K-12 institutions reopen. We have also seen our IHL institutions reopen as well.

And our number of cases are actually continuing to go down. We peaked at 9,200 cases over a seven-day period some time ago back in late June. We're going to have less than 3,000 cases over the last seven days, after reporting only 140 cases today.

So, we're seeing significant progress in our state. And we're seeing that across the Southeast as well.

SMITH: Governor, I really appreciate your time.

Our best to you and the people of your state, as this storm makes its way towards the coast there. Appreciate it.

Thank you.

REEVES: Thank you, Sandra, and God bless.

SMITH: Thank you.

And new study finding Joe Biden's platform would push Washington spending to its highest level in decades. Will that push voters away?

We will discuss -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SMITH: Spend, spend more, then repeat.

That's according to a new study from the University of Pennsylvania. Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden's spending plan could cost -- wait for it -- $5.4 trillion over the next decade. He's playing to his base. But how will that play with all voters?

GOP pollster Lee Carter joins us now.

Sometimes, you have to sit down and write out the zeros to remind yourself just how big that number is, Lee.

How is that playing with his base vs. the general voting public?

LEE CARTER, REPUBLICAN POLLSTER: The numbers now are so big, I think they have almost become meaningless to folks, because it's just so hard to wrap your hands around, what does this mean?

It means a big problem for our future, is what it means. But people don't hear it that way. I think a lot of people have been hungry for Joe Biden to say exactly what he's going to be doing for America. And he's laid it out here. And it's going to cost a lot of money.

So, now it's Donald Trump's job to try and explain why that's not OK, because he's talking about the things that are really important to the American voter. He is talking about creating jobs. He's talking about infrastructure. He's talking about education. He's talking paid leave, Social Security and health care, these issues that are really, really important.

And, yes, it's going to cost too much. And it's not going to be a hard thing to break down, because, when we're talking about these numbers, they are so huge. How do you even tell the difference when you're talking about this $3 trillion vs. $4 trillion?

It sounds like a lot. But, at the end of the day, people are hungry for the solutions. What's this mean for America?

SMITH: A Wharton economics adviser is quoted in The Wall Street Journal piece on this, this morning, saying, this is the largest proposed spending increase by a presidential nominee since George McGovern.

OK, Wharton dug into these numbers here, said that this would elevate federal spending to be 24 percent of GDP by 2030. You're talking about the biggest federal budgets going back more than a half-a-century, according to Wharton.

You have to wonder how that plays with all voters in this environment, Lee.

CARTER: Yes, there's no question about it.

I think it's really scary to folks. I think people are concerned about the future. I think they're concerned about their grandchildren. But right now, I think a lot of people think that spending is necessary, because we are in -- many people are saying we're in a recession, but we're certainly going through a very, very difficult time economically.

And that's when a lot of these kinds of big plans often are popular and cut through. I think it's important to note, though, that his campaign said what he's talking about in this $5.4 trillion package are the plans that are going to endure, is not talking about temporary measures that are going to get us through the moments that we're going through because of COVID.

He's talking about long-term spending. And that's really, really extreme. The other thing I think is important is, the Democrats have been criticizing Trump for his spending, saying, you're not a true conservative.

And now they're coming out, and they're going to huge, huge amounts over that. And they're saying they're going to pay for it by taxing the wealthy. Well, that's not going to get you -- the math doesn't add up.

I think, what was it, one candidate was talking about, what is it, fuzzy math. It just doesn't make sense. How are we going to do this for the long term? We can't keep spending.

SMITH: Yes.

CARTER: We can't just keep giving things away.

So, somebody who's going to have to explain it in a way that's going to help people say, we can have what we need without spending too much.

SMITH: It's an important point. And I brought it up with the White House.

I was talking to Kayleigh McEnany last week about it. And I asked her about the deficit and the ballooning deficit. She said she had just spoken to the president about it, and that he's going to make that a second-term priority.

So, an interesting response to that. We will see where that goes.

I want to transition to this. Caught my eye this morning, The New York Times reporting on Joe Biden's legal preparations and how he is now creating a new major legal team in the event that the election is challenged, Lee.

What does that tell you about what we may see unfold on election night?

CARTER: I am so nervous about this.

The one thing that we have is trust in the system. The one thing that we have is trust in our democracy at work. That's being lost, and it's being shown by Joe Biden already. People are preparing for some of the worst reactions to this election that we have ever seen.

They're saying that we might not have results for weeks after, the unrest that could follow. When people were concerned about, in 2016, are you going to concede if you're -- if you don't win the night of, now we're talking about weeks, and we're talking about legal teams. I think this is going to make people feel very, very unsure, very, very unsafe.

And I think the job of both of these candidates right now is to make people feel confident in this system, that it's going to work, and show us how it's going to. This kind of stuff, I think it should make everybody very nervous.

SMITH: Fair to get Joe Biden's campaign response in there.

They're saying that this team, this election legal team, is an election protection program unlike any before.

Lee Carter, great to talk to you this afternoon, and good to see you. Thank you.

CARTER: Great to see you. Thank you.

SMITH: All right, looking live now at a New York City food fight.

Restaurant owners taking to City Hall and taking on new rules for indoor dining during the pandemic. We're going to have a live update on that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SMITH: This just in on the wildfires in Oregon.

We're now learning that 22 people are confirmed missing in that state, and that some 1,000 National Guard soldiers will be in the state before the end of the week to help fight the fires there. We will keep you posted on any further developments as we get them.

Meanwhile, your table is ready. Well, it's almost ready, New York City restaurants given the green light for indoor dining to start two weeks from Wednesday, but not all owners are happy, and they're letting the city know about it.

To Kristina Partsinevelos at City Hall in New York City on what is being served up to day -- Kristina.

KRISTINA PARTSINEVELOS, FOX NEWS BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Well, I have now actually shifted to Hell's Kitchen, because the landscape has changed so dramatically in New York City.

It's not hard to find restaurants with their doors closed. I'm on Ninth Avenue, and there's literally four in a row that have shut their doors. And this comes at a time when restaurants have been scraping by for months just with outdoor dining.

They finally got the green light, but many took to City Hall this morning to protest. They're not happy with the new restrictions. The new restrictions mean that, right now, on September 30, restaurants can open at 25 percent capacity.

You have to have mandatory temperature checks. You have to provide information for contact tracing. You have to update your own filtration systems inside your restaurants. You must close at midnight. And bar service cannot be open.

I spoke to some of the protesters as to why they're so dissatisfied with the new restrictions. Listen in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSEPH SMITH, OWNER, BOBBY VAN'S STEAKHOUSE: We have been struggling, hanging on by our fingernails for the last six months. Most of these people here, as you can see, they haven't worked in six months.

DANIELLA SOLANO, PERNOD RICARD WHISKEY AMBASSADOR: And, collectively, no one's come together and say, hey, we need to pass the RESTAURANTS Act. We need to keep these businesses alive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PARTSINEVELOS: The restaurant owners find it unfair that other cities across the country can open up, but not here. So their demands are 50 percent capacity by September 30, full capacity by November. They want bars to reopen.

And like many other industries, they're hoping for some type of federal relief. And these demands come as the CDC puts out a new survey of roughly 314 adults, and the survey says that for those who tested positive, they're twice as likely to have gone and eaten at a restaurant indoors.

Pressure is on for an industry here in New York that employs over 100,000 people -- Sandra.

SMITH: It's just been brutal for some of these restaurants, really some of them trying to hang in there still.

Kristina Partsinevelos, thank you.

Meantime, New Jersey restaurants have been open for indoor dining at 25 percent capacity since the beginning of the month. So, how is that working out so far?

Let's get the read from Michele Siekerka, president of the New Jersey Business and Industry Association.

I know that you are probably listening to that report there in New York, where many of those restauranteurs are hitting up City Hall, saying, this isn't good enough. I mean, what does it been like in New Jersey to have the doors open for indoor dining for only a quarter capacity? You're talking about a restaurant that could sit 40 people normally. You can seat 10.

MICHELE SIEKERKA, PRESIDENT, NEW JERSEY BUSINESS INSURANCE ASSOCIATION: No, it just doesn't work; 25 percent capacity doesn't work.

Many restaurants remain closed, because they didn't have large capacity to begin with. And then complying with an executive order that limited them to 25 percent would be a money-losing proposition.

New Jersey, we have an $18.2 billion restaurant industry employing over 228,000 jobs; 87 percent were laid off in March, when we had our shelter- in-place order. And of that, only 23 percent have come back to work so far.

They can't sustain on 25 percent. In fact, many tell us that they won't even break a profit of 50 percent. They really need to be getting back up to 100 percent in order to survive.

SMITH: Some restaurants outside the city, whether it's Long Island, Westchester County, they tell you, you know what? When we adapted to the outdoor seating in the summertime, some of them did quite well. People really enjoyed the outdoor added seating capacity.

But the weather is turning. It is going to get chillier. And when you look at these restaurants that can only operate at a quarter capacity, they're already starting to stock up, we're hearing on outdoor heaters, anything they can do to keep getting people seated at the restaurants.

How much longer can this last?

SIEKERKA: Well, those who are fortunate enough to have limited outdoor dining did perhaps fare better than others.

But think about in the cities where you don't have that ability. And, yes, we're entering what they call the shoulder season. And so now how many people want to sit outside chilling while they're eating?

So, the time is very limited in order to ensure that we can continue to have outdoor dining help to support indoor dining. We really need relief on indoor dining.

You know, 35 percent of small independent restaurants will not reopen and will close by the end of the year, according to the National Restaurant Association. Those are statistics that should really, really frighten us.

SMITH: Michele, it has been a tough time for the restaurant scene. We really wish the best for all these restaurants, and so many them dealing with the fact that staff left to go do something else. And if they're told they can open their doors -- final thoughts -- a lot of the staff have already moved on.

Final thoughts?

SIEKERKA: Oh, challenge. Huge struggle right now is finding employees for these restaurants, absolutely.

SMITH: All right, Michele, our best to you and all those who are trying to survive this. Appreciate your time. Thank you.

SIEKERKA: Thanks so much.

SMITH: And the COVID-19 stimulus stalemate continues.

New York Democratic Congressman Max Rose says his part and the GOP need to figure it out and get it done. Max Rose joins us live coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SMITH: Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin saying there is a deal to be had on COVID-19 stimulus, and is ready and willing to negotiate with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

Our next guest says both political parties need to put the fighting aside to start fighting for the American people.

Max Rose is a Democratic congressman from New York and joins us now.

Congressman, good afternoon. What's your message?

REP. MAX ROSE, D-NY: With the Treasury secretary, there is a deal to be had.

But, in order for that to occur, two things need to happen. First off, the Democratic Party has to stop thinking about the next election. The Democratic Party can't say, oh, look, it's better if we don't get a deal, because then the president looks worse off. I think that is fundamentally wrong and un-American.

But, secondly, the Republican Party, particularly my colleagues in the Senate, can no longer put their head in the sand and think that a skinny bill is OK. It's a good thing that we didn't have a skinny plan for the Apollo project or a skinny plan to beat the Nazis.

Rather, I have confidence that there are members in Congress on both sides of the aisle that are putting the country first that will come to the table with a robust, bold, and, nonetheless, sensible plan to beat COVID, emerge out of this economic crisis, as well as this public health crisis.

SMITH: All right, as we're showing on the side of the screen, Mnuchin signaled that he would be open to this.

It sounds like negotiations will happen. But, of course, he's receiving criticisms from the Republican Party about moving forward with too much. Obviously, we're looking at a situation that could last many years for the American people.

So, how badly is this stimulus needed?

ROSE: It's absolutely needed. And state and local aid has got to be included in that stimulus package.

Otherwise, we will see cops, firemen, teachers, nurses, first responders, essential workers laid off from our cities and our states throughout the country. This is not a red state vs. blue state issue.

The president several months ago said -- and I agree with him -- that this is a moment of war. Well, you can't underspend during a war. Rather, it is critical that we dedicate all of the resources necessary to beat this unprecedented pandemic, not looking back to decide whose fault it is, but looking forward, figuring out how we can emerge out of this stronger than ever.

SMITH: So, it sounds like Mnuchin is talking about the extraordinary need for this stimulus.

And this just in: The U.S. Treasury secretary, Steve Mnuchin, and Fed Chairman Jerome Powell will be testifying before the Senate Banking Committee -- that's happening on September 24 -- on coronavirus relief.

Do you have a response to that before I move on?

ROSE: No, look, my hope is, sincerely, whether it's the Treasury secretary or anyone else on both sides of the aisle, that they put the country first.

SMITH: All right.

ROSE: We cannot think about the next election right now.

SMITH: It reminds me of what is happening all over the country, but particularly here in New York.

You have shared your grievances with the mayor. Your final thoughts on Mayor Bill de Blasio and his handling of all this? Twenty seconds.

ROSE: Well, look plain and simple, as I have said several times, I think he's the worst mayor in the history of New York City.

He's got to get his act together, do his job, stop listening to Twitter, and rescue our city.

SMITH: I asked for 20. You gave me 10.

Congressman Max Rose, appreciate your time this afternoon. We will catch up again soon. Thank you.

ROSE: Thanks so much again.

SMITH: And Sally has strengthened to a Category 2 hurricane, 100-miles-an- hour winds, that update just coming into our newsroom.

That's it for us. I'm Sandra Smith. Thank you for joining us.

END

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