Rep. Devin Nunes: 'Pretty darn clear' that California's sanctuary policies are leading to the murder of innocent people

This is a rush transcript from "Tucker Carlson Tonight," December 28, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARK STEYN, AUTHOR, COLUMNIST, STEYNONLINE.COM: Good evening and welcome to “Tucker Carlson Tonight.” I'm Mark Steyn, in for Tucker this evening. But he will be breaking his pre-Hogmanay observances to make an appearance on the show later, so stay tuned for that.

But first, a new warning from President Trump. As the government shutdown enters its second week, Trump refuses to give an inch in his fight for a Border wall.

And today, he warned on Twitter, "We will be forced to close the Southern border entirely if the Obstructionist Democrats do not give us the money to finish the Wall and also change the ridiculous immigration laws that our country is saddled with. Hard to believe there was a Congress and President who would approve."

The Office of Management and Budget Director, and the incoming White House Chief of Staff, Mick Mulvaney, told Fox this morning that the President is ready to negotiate an end to the shutdown but the Democrats are nowhere to be found.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN MICHAEL MULVANEY, DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET: The President's been here, by the way, all weekend, all Christmas. He's staying in Washington, D.C., over New Year's. He's canceled his plans for Christmas. Now, he's canceled his plans for New Year's.

So, we're talking on an hourly basis, about not only what's happening in California but also what's not happening in Washington D.C. with Senate Democrats. The President is very heavily engaged in this on almost a -- a minute-by-minute basis.

It still strikes me as very unusual that the Democrats did not provide a counter-offer to our last discussion. They simply left town. Again, the President is here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

MULVANEY: The President cancelled his plans. Where's -- where's Chuck Schumer? Where's Nancy Pelosi? They're not even talking right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEYN: Where is Nancy Pelosi, Mulvaney asks. Well she spent the holiday living the highlife at a resort in Hawaii. Mulvaney also said Pelosi seems to be the key hold-up while Senate Minority Leader, Chuck Schumer, might be more pliable.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MULVANEY: Vice President and I met with Leader Schumer last Saturday, the last time we sat down face-to-face, and my gut was that he was really interested in doing a deal and coming to some sort of compromise. But the more we're hearing this week--

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

MULVANEY: --is that it's Nancy Pelosi who's preventing--

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

MULVANEY: --that from happening.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEYN: Chris Hahn is a radio host and former aide to Senator Schumer and Ned Ryun is the Founder and CEO of American Majority. They both join us.

Chris, once upon a time, your former boss, Senator Schumer, 2009, he said, "When we use phrases like undocumented workers, we convey a message to the American people that their government is not serious about combating illegal immigration. People who enter the United States without permission are illegal aliens."

He talked about the 650 miles of border fence that creates a significant barrier. Was he just drunk that night? He'd fallen face down in the eggnog because he wouldn't be saying stuff like -- he hasn't said stuff like that in recent months, has he?

CHRISTOPHER HAHN, RADIO SHOW HOST: I -- I think you're confused. I -- I think you buy into the hype that a lot of people on the Right portray Democrats as not wanting any kind of border security at all. That's just not true.

They're not interested in this fake, made-for-the-base, made-for-TV Border wall that President Trump is not going to get because, look, the American people voted in November for a new majority in the House of Representatives. They gave them an 8.5 percent edge in that vote and those people, most certainly, were not putting money in--

STEYN: Yes, yes.

HAHN: --for this ridiculous wall.

STEYN: No, no, no, that's--

HAHN: And -- and -- and I -- I heard the intro. Hold on there (ph)--

STEYN: Yes?

HAHN: --hold on there (ph). I heard your intro. Right now, the Republicans still control the House of Representative. Nancy -- Nancy Pelosi is the Minority Leader until--

STEYN: Right.

HAHN: --next week.

STEYN: Yes, yes.

HAHN: And then he'll negotiate with her. And I'm telling you right now he'll get nothing for the wall.

STEYN: OK.

HAHN: So, he needs to come up with something to give them first, if he wants to get anything--

STEYN: O -- OK.

HAHN: --in return.

STEYN: Let's have a second shot at my question then. Why do big-time Democrats not use words like illegal aliens anymore?

NED RYUN, CEO OF AMERICAN MAJORITY: They don't do that anymore, Mark, because--

HAHN: I think people--

STEYN: Yes, go ahead then, Ned, you take it. You take it.

RYUN: No, they can't. I mean they can't, they can't. They cannot give Trump a win, Mark. They can't give him anything for his wall because it would -- it would infuriate their far-Left base who doesn't want anything dealt with, with our immigration system or securing our border.

So, they -- they think they're getting a twofer. They're getting -- they're denying Trump will win and they're making their Left--based -- Left -- Leftist base happy. I will say this.

It is pretty stunning that this has all taken place over the last five years, when in 2013 most every Democratic Senator voted for $46 billion in nearly 700 miles of Border wall. I think it's gotten to a point we are -- this is complete insanity, Mark.

STEYN: Yes.

RYUN: At what point, do we as a sovereign nation not have the right to say we're going to secure our borders. We have a moral responsibility to our citizens to decide--

HAHN: We do have that right.

STEYN: Well -- well now--

RYUN: --who is coming in and why.

STEYN: --now, you're using these naughty phrases like national sovereignty and that kind of thing. The President has threatened to close down the border. In a sane world, to use the term you use Ned, in a sane world, we would have an enforced border. But that apparently is impossible--

RYUN: Right.

STEYN: --in the United States.

So, Chris, if we've got a choice between totally open borders and a closed border, actually, isn't the President's suggestion for a closed border on the Mexican border actually less insane than open borders?

HAHN: We don't have that choice. And the President's choice of a closed border on the Mexican border is absolutely insane. If you think the stock market was bad this month--

STEYN: Why? Why is it insane?

RYUN: Why?

HAHN: --you wait -- you wait till next month if he closes the border how bad our stock market would be and how bad our economy would become.

STEYN: Why?

HAHN: That is a ridiculous statement by a ridiculous president who does not understand world markets. He claimed a couple of months ago to have renegotiated NAFTA.

RYUN: That's--

HAHN: Why would anybody negotiate anything with him if he's then going to (ph)--

STEYN: No, no, no, no--

HAHN: --just turnaround and close the border? It's ridiculous.

RYUN: No--

STEYN: No, wait, wait--

HAHN: He should do the job, look, he's got--

STEYN: Well wait a minute, wait a minute.

RYUN: Wait a minute.

HAHN: --$1.4 billion he hasn't even used yet for border security.

STEYN: Oh and just -- just bear -- bear with me. Bear (ph)--

HAHN: If he's really serious about it, he should use it.

STEYN: Hear me out, Chris. Australia doesn't have--

HAHN: Yes.

STEYN: --a land border.

RYUN: Exactly.

STEYN: And it trades with the rest of the world. Iceland doesn't have a land border and it trades with the rest of the world. Instead of having ports of entry--

HAHN: Yes.

STEYN: --that people can just walk through, why not close them and at least insist they have to get on a flight to LAX or O'Hare or wherever where we at least know--

HAHN: These--

STEYN: --who they are before they get on the plane. What's wrong with that, Chris?

HAHN: Because the systems of trade and the avenues of trade and that -- have been--

RYUN: This is--

HAHN: --developed over years and years and years and--

RYUN: --absurd.

HAHN: --millennium in some cases.

STEYN: Oh, Ned, Ned--

HAHN: So, you know, what are we going to do? Change it overnight--

RYUN: Absurd.

STEYN: --Ned.

HAHN: --because the President has a whim and the Right-wing won't let it (ph)--

STEYN: No, no, no, Ned--

RYUN: You know what? Donald Trump--

HAHN: --that happen (ph). That's how economies work.

STEYN: --you take -- you take that. You take that question, Ned.

RYUN: --Donald Trump is on power (ph)--

HAHN: You know all the businesses work that way (ph) how economies work.

RYUN: --trying to do this (ph)--

STEYN: Come on, let -- let's -- I want -- I want Ned to weigh in on this. What -- what's your vote (ph) on the closed border?

RYUN: Under the powers given to him, under the Immigration and Nationality Act, Mark, Donald Trump should say, I find the entry of illegal aliens on the Southern border detrimental to the interest of the United States. And until Democrats want to be serious about securing our border, I'm shutting it down, and I'm going to shut it down for the rest of my term until we get serious--

STEYN: That's--

RYUN: --not only about securing the Southern border but also fixing--

STEYN: Yes, that is (ph)--

HAHN: Let me tell you something.

STEYN: --that's--

RYUN: --our completely screwed-up immigration system--

HAHN: Let me tell you something.

RYUN: --because I wouldn't even argue with the system--

HAHN: Let me tell you something.

RYUN: --right now.

HAHN: He -- he shuts it down--

STEYN: We got to leave it there, guys. Thanks -- that--

HAHN: --if he shuts down the -- the border and crashes the economy, his 40 percent is going to be--

STEYN: No, no, that's -- relax about the economy. That's all algorithms and that's--

RYUN: He can't operate (ph).

HAHN: --compounding five in this base (ph). And the Republicans in Congress are going to turn their backs on him.

STEYN: --crazy algorithms, anyway. Thank you, Chris. Thank you, Ned.

HAHN: He'll be gone.

STEYN: The DHS Secretary, Kirstjen Nielsen, made a visit to the still open border today. Meanwhile, California police arrested an illegal immigrant suspected of murdering an officer during a traffic stop.

For more on both stories, Fox Correspondent, Jonathan Hunt, is here. Jonathan?

JONATHAN HUNT, CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Mark. The arrest of the alleged killer of Officer Ronil Singh came just 48 hours after the 33-year old officer, who leaves behind his wife and five-month old son, was gunned down.

The suspect, Gustavo Perez Arriaga, was in the U.S. illegally according to the Sheriff who angrily denounced California's so-called Sanctuary laws, which the Sheriff said prevented Perez Arriaga being deported for previous DUI convictions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADAM CHRISTIANSON, STANISLAUS COUNTY SHERIFF: We can't ignore the fact that this could have been preventable. And under SB 54 in California, based on two arrests for DUI and some other active warrants that this criminal has out there, law enforcement would have been prevented, prohibited, from sharing any information with ICE about this criminal gang member. Ladies and gentlemen, this is not how you protect a community.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: With immigration and border issues at the heart of the current government shutdown, Homeland Security Secretary, Kirstjen Nielsen, today visited the border area near El Paso, Texas.

Her visit was primarily to get a first-hand look at the medical screening facilities at border stations in the wake of the deaths this month of two young Guatemalan children, who had crossed the border and were taken into custody by Customs and Border Patrol agents.

The CBP Commissioner has said, in the two separate tragedies, agents did all they could to help the eight-year-old boy and seven-year-old girl as soon as they became aware they were sick.

The Secretary's visit also comes on the heels of hundreds of immigrants being released onto the streets of El Paso this week by Immigrations and Customs Enforcement agents with ICE saying they are constrained by law over how long they can detain immigrant families.

Secretary Nielsen, by the way, Mark, is also due to visit border facilities in Yuma, Arizona tomorrow.

Mark?

STEYN: Thanks, Jonathan.

Earlier this year, by the way, the Oakland Mayor, Libby Schaaf publicly took a stand against America's own laws after learning of an impending ICE sweep that was seeking criminal illegal aliens in that jurisdiction. Schaaf issued a warning so that those illegal immigrants could flee. She said that any other action would be racist.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR LIBBY SCHAAF, OAKLAND, CALIFORNIA: It is a continued distraction. It is a continued perpetuation of a racist lie that immigrants are not valued members of our society. We in Oakland know better. We in Oakland have a community that welcomes and honors all people no matter where they came from or how they got here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEYN: Well months later, after the murder of that policeman from Fiji, Schaaf tells BuzzFeed, "I have no regrets, none. The more time goes by, the more certain I feel that I did the right thing in standing up for our community and pointing out our values are not aligned with our laws."

Travis Allen is a former Assemblyman, and candidate for Chairman of the California Republican Party, and he joins us now.

Travis, really, this appalling murder and it's hard to look at that photograph on Christmas morning of that policeman and his wife and their five-month old child and the service dog, and not to feel as his fellow officers did, in denouncing the indulgence of these illegal immigrants because this guy was a model immigrant.

This is -- this is the choice. You -- you want people like this to come to your society. He comes here from Fiji. He assimilates with the community. He serves the community, becomes a police officer, and then someone who shouldn't be in the country murders him, and the Mayor of Oakland is really on the illegal's side rather than the legal side of this.

TRAVIS ETHAN ALLEN, FORMER REPUBLICAN MEMBER OF THE CALIFORNIA STATE ASSEMBLY: You're exactly right.

And, you know, this is the criminality that we're seeing in California. You know, Libby Schaaf, as you just mentioned, the Mayor of Oakland, gave warning to over 900 criminal illegal immigrants, people who came here illegally, and then actually committed crimes while they were here.

Because of her warning, they're now roaming free across State of California. As you know, California is now a -- in a legal sanctuary state as well, which means that our federal or our law enforcement can't cooperate with Federal Immigration authorities. So, you start pairing this together and then you can understand the sort of problem that we have in California.

And this tragedy that we just saw, you know, with Corporal Ronil Singh, you know, how do California Democrats, how do Democrats across the country like Nancy -- Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer, how can they actually hold their heads high and address the family, when they know that the weight of this tragedy falls fully on their shoulders?

STEYN: Why--

ALLEN: So, look, I tell you--

STEYN: --why have they chosen that (ph)? The Democrats have made a choice. That Mayor says immigrants. They weren't -- they aren't immigrants. They're illegal immigrants. They're criminals.

Corporal Singh is an immigrant. He filled in the paperwork. It's tedious, it's time-consuming. He did it by the book because he wanted to come here by the book. Why do the Democrats choose the other guys?

ALLEN: Well and this is the problem. It's -- it's the -- they're choosing people who are not valid legal U.S. citizens.

You talk about Corporal Ronil Singh. This guy was from Fiji. His whole life's dream was to be a police officer in the United States. His family called him their action hero. This guy was an incredible man. He had an incredible family and his whole life ahead of him.

STEYN: Right.

ALLEN: Why should Pelosi and Schumer be putting illegal immigrants ahead of U.S. citizens and our safety?

STEYN: Yes.

ALLEN: You know, this is -- this is why it's -- it's very clear.

STEYN: You're--

ALLEN: Not only do we have to secure the border but--

STEYN: --you're--

ALLEN: --we need to do it today so we don't have more of these tragedies.

STEYN: --you're right on that, Travis. Thank you for saying that.

Rudy Giuliani says it's time for the Mueller investigation to be investigated. A former Federal Prosecutor will weigh in on that, up next, on TUCKER CARLSON TONIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

STEYN: Is it time for the Mueller investigation to face an investigation of its own?

President Trump's Defense Lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, says Mueller should be probed to see if he helped destroy evidence after thousands of text messages between Peter Strzok and his FBI paramour, Lisa Page went missing. The Department of Justice claims the politically explosive texts went missing due to a technical glitch. Glitchy. Glitchy. Glitchy.

Francey Hakes is a former Federal Prosecutor and former DOJ National Coordinator for Child Exploitation and Prevention, and she joins us.

Francey, there's a kind of credibility issue here because everybody in some little rinky-dink civil suit in the local county court knows that you don't do this kind of stuff. How come the FBI gets away with just vaporizing important evidence from key figures?

FRANCEY HAKES, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, that's a great question, Mark. I don't know how they get away with it.

And the thing that concerns me the most is that you're talking about text messages that show bias. And as I'm sure you know, every criminal defendant in the courts across this country are entitled to any evidence that shows--

STEYN: Right.

HAKES: --bias by a witness. And Strzok, certainly, who would have been a witness in this case, in many cases, showed clear bias in his text messages with his lover, Page.

It was wrong for the Department of Justice to get rid of these text messages. They were the subject of an OIG investigation already. And it seems to me to be a constitutional violation that they cannot provide these text messages to any current or future defendants.

STEYN: Well Peter Strzok is this very weird figure because there's like 35,000 FBI employees. But somehow, this guy is the indispensable guy.

He's on the Hillary investigation. He's on the Trump investigation. He gets sent to the White House to snitch up Michael Flynn. He gets flown to London to see Alexander Downer, the Australian High Commissioner, so they can get the goods on Papadopoulos. And then he's sent to the Special Counsel's Office.

And according to the OIG's report, it's the Special Counsel's Office that reviewed these cellphones and put them back on factory settings. Isn't that corruption in the Special Counsel's Office?

HAKES: Well, it certainly seems like it could be, Mark. My concern here is that Bob Mueller was a United States Attorney, a presidential appointee. He was the FBI Director. He knows better than most people what is relevant to a potential prosecution. And what is relevant is always exculpatory information.

STEYN: Right.

HAKES: And that is what is contained in these text messages. And it is shocking that they deleted them. And it makes you wonder whether it was purposeful.

STEYN: Yes. And that phrase you used, exculpatory information, that's actually -- prosecutors can be punished for that. No -- nobody seems anxious to punish Bob Mueller. So maybe Giuliani has a point about investigating the investigator.

Another thing, Francey, while we have you, a new report claims that President Trump's former attorney, Michael Cohen, who famously said he had never been to Prague may have been there in the summer of 2016, according to cellphone tower evidence.

And that, as you know, is one of the most explosive allegations in the various Trump -- details in the Trump dossier. Is this -- is this anything real or is it hearsay upon hearsay?

HAKES: Well I think, Mark, you hit upon it. I think it is hearsay upon hearsay. It reminds me of the very Steele dossier that was the source of this information in the first place that has been unverified.

It is still unverified to this day, and relies upon mysterious Russian or Eastern European intelligence sources, the same thing that the FBI and the Department of Justice asked the FISA Court to rely upon--

STEYN: Right.

HAKES: --in the Carter Page FISA warrant. It is not reliable information. And until you show me American surveillance by Americans that prove he was in Prague--

STEYN: Right.

HAKES: --I'm not going to believe it.

STEYN: So, you don't see why this MI6 guy, Christopher Steele, a British subject should be allowed to interfere in the 2016 American election basically.

HAKES: I really don't. I think we should leave that to Americans.

STEYN: OK. And -- and presumably, he would -- he wouldn't actually -- if -- if Cohen had been in Prague, he's now copped a plea with Mueller and the rest of the guys. He would presumably have no incentive not to disclose that. So, if he had been there, the investigation would know it. Wouldn't they?

HAKES: Well, they would. And, in fact, he has made no secret of his newfound hatred for President Trump and his evil ways, as I think, he put it. And so, I think if he was in Prague and it was part of some vast conspiracy by the President to collude with Russia to throw the election, I think he'd be on Twitter talking about it right now.

STEYN: Yes. He does seem to be relatively leaky about that. Are we anywhere near a wrap-up of this investigation?

HAKES: Well, of course, rumors say that Mueller will put out a report in February. It's long overdue, in my opinion. This investigation has been going on now for well over two years. I -- I can't imagine what it is they're doing now. I look forward to seeing the report. But I think, at this point, he's just justifying the millions of dollars that he's been spending.

STEYN: OK. For well -- he's been spending millions of dollars resetting iPhones to factory settings. It -- it looks like they've been doing a bit of that anyway. Francey, thank you for explaining all that to us.

Tucker is going to be back just ahead. And Michael Bloomberg, stand well back, Michael Bloomberg, another billionaire who may be readying his own self-funded presidential campaign with global warming and gun grabbing as central focuses.

Is that what the American people want? That's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

STEYN: Billionaire Michael Bloomberg is still drawing speculation as a possible presidential contender. If he does run, a top adviser says Bloomberg would be willing to spend more than a $100 million of his $40 billion fortune to win.

And in a recent interview, Bloomberg said, if he runs, then fighting climate change will be a top priority of his campaign. Of course, Emmanuel Macron became President of France with a similar agenda, and they're now facing riots and burning down Paris.

Seth Barron is an Associate Editor at City Journal. He joins us. Wouldn't it be quicker for Michael Bloomberg just to throw a $100 million out of the window and watch it float into the Atlantic?

SETH BARRON, NYC INITIATIVE PROJECT DIRECTOR AT MANHATTAN INSTITUTE: Well, you know, $100 million for Michael Bloomberg is like, you know, that's what he leaves under the plate. I mean he spent a $100 million on his third Mayoral campaign.

STEYN: Right.

BARRON: He spent a $100 million in the recent midterm elections when he wasn't running.

STEYN: Yes.

BARRON: When Wolfson says that Michael Bloomberg is willing to spend more than a $100 million, I think we can assume that he's willing to spend comfortably more like, you know, in the billions to achieve this.

STEYN: Is he not just, though, one of these politicians who is too disconnected from ordinary life? He -- he -- he -- he was all about the trans-fats so, he could regulate the salt out of your cheeseburger. But when it snowed, he couldn't regulate any salt on to Seventh Avenue. That was beyond him (ph)?

BARRON: Right. And, you know, sodas, and salt, and trans-fat, those were all things that he focused on. At the same time, Bloomberg was a non- partisan technocratic Mayor with a business-friendly agenda and, you know, a focus on law and order, and he did a fairly competent job running the city.

STEYN: By comparison with what's come after?

BARRON: Well, yes. The thing with -- with Bloomberg though is his emphasis on climate change, gun control--

STEYN: Yes.

BARRON: --those indicate that's the extent to which he's still in this elitist bubble often (ph).

STEYN: No -- nobody west of the Hudson is interested in -- in gun control and climate change.

BARRON: Well it -- once you get over to the Sierras then, you know, west of their (ph) people are interested to get it (ph). But no, I mean I think -- I'm -- I'm not sure he's really in touch with the -- the -- the heartland.

STEYN: Isn't -- isn't he absolutely what -- there's no place for in -- as you said, he's like a centrist technocrat--

BARRON: Yes.

STEYN: --in a hyper-partisan environment where people either want Donald Trump or Ms. Ocasio-Cortez.

BARRON: Well I think the -- the -- he's missed his window in the Democrat Party. They've moved ideologically. You know, one thing he did, when he was Mayor that I think would come back to haunt him, is he for -- for immigrants, he charged their sponsors if they went on benefits.

STEYN: Right.

BARRON: Now, that's legal.

STEYN: Yes, absolutely.

BARRON: And that's like the public charge--

STEYN: Yes, yes, yes, yes. No, no--

BARRON: --proposal.

STEYN: --I had to -- I had to agree to all that.

BARRON: Certainly.

STEYN: Yes.

BARRON: And, you know, that's the sort of thing that, you know, to me, it seems perfectly reasonable. I'm not sure that the mainstream of the Democratic Party now would be in favor of things like that.

STEYN: So, he -- he'd have to explain some of his identity politics--

BARRON: To the woke aspect of the Democrat Party. He's -- he's

STEYN: How -- how woke is he on -- on the Ocasio-Cortez guide (ph)?

BARRON: He's extremely un-woke. His whole broken windows agenda was, I mean, at the time, maybe you could have said it was, "Oh, implicitly racist." But now they would say, "Oh, this is objectively racist." He would -- he -- he'll have a lot of explaining to do to that side of the party.

STEYN: Do you think that comes from spending every weekend in Bermuda, which is very attractively un-woke in many ways (ph)?

BARRON: Well, you'd think that with someone so concerned about rising ocean levels, he might sell that and try to, you know, find something in Vail or Aspen but--

STEYN: Right. Higher ground, yes.

BARRON: Right.

STEYN: That -- that's from a guy who managed to actually put a lot of the ocean into the New York City subway during--

BARRON: That's right. That's right.

STEYN: --Superstorm Sandy. Well, thank you. Thank you for that, Seth.

BARRON: Thanks, Mark.

STEYN: I can hardly contain myself when we come to the thought of a Michael Bloomberg presidential candidacy.

The first Democrat primary debate is actually only six months away. And the party's still trying to find an identity for 2020. A new poll of Democrat voters says the candidate they're most excited about is "Somebody entirely new." But if they can't have that, they'd settle for Joe Biden.

Jason Nichols is the professor of African-American studies at the University of Maryland, and he joins us. This is very interesting polling, Jason. There -- there was an old New Yorker cartoon years ago, a guy coming out of the theater and the Marquis (ph) says, fun for young and old, the New York Times.

And it's a middle-aged guy looking extremely unhappy. And that's what the Democrat primary is. It's fun for young and old. There's like either guys who've been around for half a century or those people who are very callow and youthful, and not really a lot of space in between them, is there?

JASON NICHOLS, PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND: No. I -- I think that there -- there's -- there are people who may be young but actually have plenty of experience. Many of the people have been in Congress or -- or been in the House for a long time.

I think we have a good field of people. I think more people are going to come out and -- and announce in the next two or three months. I think it's going to be really exciting. It's an exciting time.

And I will say your last segment was really cool. That is the first time I've heard anybody use the term woke on a Fox News segment. So that -- that was the first and I enjoyed it.

STEYN: No, I am -- I'm totally un-woke. And I'm happy to join the--

NICHOLS: Yes.

STEYN: --un-woke party and be the un-woke--

NICHOLS: I would agree to that.

STEYN: --candidate.

NICHOLS: You are not woke.

STEYN: Oh, thanks. Ah, I don't know.

Anyway, well, since we -- since we -- since you brought up Bloomberg, is Bloomberg your idea of somebody who excites you and excites the base?

NICHOLS: No. I'm going to agree with -- with what you guys said about the fact that he has to answer for stop and frisk, and broken windows, which I will say is objectively racist. We've seen the numbers. The people who get stopped and frisked and they're usually Black and Brown.

So, I -- I'm not excited about Bloomberg. And I would agree that he is out of touch. He is someone who is, you know, a very pro-business, seen as very Wall Street. And--

STEYN: Right.

NICHOLS: --and I don't think he's going to catch on with the progressive parts of the party, which--

STEYN: No. At -- is that where the energy is because you put it in what -- what one might call identity politics terms. And again, to go back to the young and old thing, you've got like geezers. You've got like Bernie, you've got Joe Biden, old White men in a party that seems to want something with a little more of an exotic freeform (ph) about it.

NICHOLS: I don't -- I don't know that any American is exotic whether you're a Black American or a White American or--

STEYN: No, but it is. If you -- if you--

NICHOLS: --or -- or anything like that.

STEYN: --think about identity politics, people were, "Oh, the quiet (ph) thing about Ocasio-Cortez is she's a young Latina." It's -- it's you guys who are interested in all these categorizations of people, isn't it?

NICHOLS: Well, no. I think people were excited about Ocasio-Cortez because she was young -- she's young.

STEYN: Yes.

NICHOLS: And she, you know, the other guy Crowley was -- was out of touch with his base, and that's why he lost, and -- and he overlooked her. Any boxer will tell you, "You don't overlook your -- your opponent," and he overlooked her. And I think, you know, there's a good chance that she's going to challenge Chuck Schumer--

STEYN: Right.

NICHOLS: --in the future if he does the same thing.

STEYN: Oh, bring it on. That -- that -- I would love to see that one.

NICHOLS: Yes.

STEYN: And she'll hang all that stuff about when he's demonizing illegal aliens all around his neck. I would love to see that fight. Go for it, Alexandria. That would be a great -- that would -- that would be a great moment, Jason.

NICHOLS: Yes. No, I -- I think it'll be fun. I think all of this is going to be fun. And we have to remember that we don't have to decide things. Democrats don't have to have a clear answer. We know what it was in 2016 when Republicans smell blood in the water with -- with -- with Hillary Clinton, they had a huge field.

And, you know, Donald Trump was not the number one guy, at this point. At this point, it was a guy named Mike Huckabee. Anybody remember him--

STEYN: Right.

NICHOLS: --other than remembering that he's Sarah's father. He was actually the guy who was at the top of all the polls at this point. So, I think we--

STEYN: So--

NICHOLS: --we've got a long road ahead of us.

STEYN: --so, who is your Trump figure? Who's the one who's going to come down the escalator and soar to the lead and leave the other 17 guys in the -- in the dust? Is it Cory Booker? Is it Kamala Harris? Who's it going to be?

NICHOLS: So, I like -- I like that you picked the two Black candidates. I like Cory Booker, certain things about him, but I don't think he's -- he's the guy. I actually like someone. Her name is Tulsi Gabbard.

STEYN: Right.

NICHOLS: She's -- there's a good chance that she's going to run. She's military, so she brings patriotism back to the Democratic Party. And she's very progressive on a lot of these other issues. So, I think that she's somebody who -- who could, you know, catch fire and leave others--

STEYN: But --but -- but -- but--

NICHOLS: --behind.

STEYN: --but you -- you -- the Democrats always looking for that strong military figure with the military background you mentioned. But they actually hate her position on Syria and that kind of thing the base does.

The base doesn't want to go -- that's not the path the base wants to go down. It's not John Kerry's year again. They're not looking to -- to -- to square the circle with some hawkish Democrat, are they?

NICHOLS: Well, you know, I think Tulsi, unlike Donald Trump, was not afraid to actually visit a combat zone and see what it is, you know--

STEYN: Well--

NICHOLS: --and -- and see things for herself. So, I think that that was, you know, something that could be explained pretty easily. I think once people actually hear her, give an opportunity to explain herself, I think that she will resonate.

STEYN: OK. Well, we'll see how that prediction holds up in that first debate in six months' time. Thanks a lot, Jason. Always good to see you. Happy New Year. And--

NICHOLS: Happy New Year to you, Mark.

STEYN: --thank you.

And just today, this just in, another 2020 contender, Actress Angelina Jolie is hinting that even she might run for president in 2020. In an interview with the BBC, Ms. Jolie said that she can work with both governments and militaries, so she may be worthy of high office.

And with dozens of other people possibly contending from Michael Bloomberg to Oprah, we see no reason to exclude her. Angelina versus Bloomberg, that's the Democrat primary, as it's shaping up on the eve of the big campaign season.

Tucker will be back right after the break. Stay tuned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

STEYN: A crazy week on Wall Street came to an end today with the Dow swinging back and forth all day like a drunken sailor before settling at a modest drop of 76 points.

The Dow opened this week with its worst Christmas Eve ever, as it dropped 650 points. But it followed that with its biggest single-day gain ever on Boxing Day, rising by more than a 1,000 points.

Despite the good week though, unless stocks make a dramatic rally on Monday, this will be the worst December for U.S. stocks since 1931. It's all the algorithms. We need to sacrifice more virgins into the volcano of the gods of the algorithms.

Brett Kavanaugh's confirmation battle was this year's most dramatic news story, and exposed the dangers we all face from uncorroborated allegations of sexual misconduct. Tucker recently spoke to someone who knows all about the dangers of being wrongly accused. Here's what happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TUCKER CARLSON, HOST: Well it's hard for most of us to imagine what it must be like to be Brett Kavanaugh right now. But David Sorensen has some idea.

He once worked as a White House Speechwriter. He was fired after the Washington Post published an article accusing him of domestic violence. Without a conviction or solid evidence around -- and without much time to respond to the charges, he lost his job, and his reputation was destroyed.

If current trends continue, a lot of people might learn what that's like. David Sorensen joins us tonight to tell us. David, thanks a lot for coming on.

DAVID SORENSEN, FORMER TRUMP SPEECHWRITER: Thanks for having me, Tucker.

CARLSON: So, I'll just say upfront, I mean I know nothing about your marriage or the details even of this case.

All I know is that you did not have a chance to respond. There didn't seem to be concrete evidence these charges were true. They were made by someone who had, I think, motive to make them. And the consequences you suffered were overwhelming. What was your response to this?

SORENSEN: Well I felt a -- a deep and profound frustration. I think that Judge Kavanaugh is feeling that right now, as we speak, probably, that I never thought I'd feel in my life. And -- and the feeling of having your reputation that you've -- that you've so carefully built over so many years being destroyed in an instant.

And -- and furthermore, for millions of people to believe these baseless accusations, simply because they fit a political -- political narrative, is incredibly frustrating. And I couldn't imagine, you know, how difficult it must be -- actually, well I could for -- for Judge Kavanaugh, and the situation he's in right now, it's terrible.

CARLSON: What I find so striking is--

SORENSEN: Your -- your reputation is something that's--

CARLSON: --you can't get back.

SORENSEN: --gone (ph).

CARLSON: What I find so striking so in -- there are lots of crimes committed in this country all the time. And in almost all of them, we wait to hear the evidence then we weigh it to decide what we think of it. But in this one specific category of alleged crime, we weight it dramatically to one side.

So, did you feel like you had the onus of proving that you weren't a domestic abuser? Did you feel like people just automatically believed your ex-wife?

SORENSEN: Yes, absolutely. Even though there was no evidence, whatsoever, it was simply a -- a baseless allegation. It -- it -- it contradicts everything we've learned throughout our lives about justice, about fairness. It contradicts the legal system that we've built up carefully over centuries to create a--

CARLSON: Yes.

SORENSEN: --a fair forum for getting to the bottom of the truth. And it's - - it's really scary how the Left is waging a -- a war on the basic building blocks of our civilization, when it comes to priorities like truth, fairness, merit, reason. These are things that are thrown right out the window at the expense of their -- their pursuit of political power.

CARLSON: Yes. They want power.

SORENSEN: And it's -- it's also equally--

CARLSON: That's right.

SORENSEN: --shameful to see the media just participate in it so -- so egregiously, when they used to be considered or -- or ideally they were considered to be sort of an -- an arbiter of truth or an institution in our society that was designed to uncover the truth. And now, they're participating in these reprehensible smear jobs.

CARLSON: Yes. Well they're a herd of craven dumb people. It's just such a sad and ominous trend for those of us who have sons. David--

SORENSEN: It is terrible and insidious.

CARLSON: Yes, it is.

SORENSEN: Your -- your reputation is something that's gained by the rain drop and lost by the bucketful. And Judge Kavanaugh is learning that the hard way. And I hope that we're calling him Justice Kavanaugh despite it all very soon.

CARLSON: David Sorensen, thank you very much for that. I appreciate it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEYN: Well, from we must always believe the woman to Europe's plans to abolish words with "Man" in them completely, and real-life witches are angry with President Trump yet again. The Liberal Sherpa is going to help us understand why. That's next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT DONALD J. TRUMP: This whole witch-hunt that's going on in the United States, the Russian witch-hunt.

We've had a phony witch-hunt deal.

This is a pure and simple witch-hunt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

STEYN: The European Union can't secure its borders, can't stop terror attacks at Christmas markets, and can't get members economies in order. But it can fight against so-called gendered language.

A new translation guide for European Parliament staff in Strasbourg tells them to avoid using words with "Man" in them, due to the offensive connotations. Instead of mankind, they must use humanity. Instead of man- made, they must use artificial, and so on and so forth, until language is so sterile, it will be better to not speak at all and just communicate in Euro-approved emojis.

Michael Loftus is a comedian. He joins us. Michael, it's tough being a comedian when the European Union is working the room. You really wouldn't want to follow an EU Commissioner on open mic night after comedy gold material like this stuff.

MICHAEL LOFTUS, COMEDIAN: I don't think you would. I don't think you could. It's got to -- EU people have to have the worst sense of humor ever. Europe has fallen. If the kids (ph) -- thank God, World War II isn't today. All the Nazis would have to do is tell some offensive jokes.

STEYN: Right.

LOFTUS: Two guys walk into a bar, everyone would faint.

STEYN: Yes. Well I'll say this -- I'll say this for them. They're working - - Justin Trudeau, the beloved Prime Minister of Canada rebuked a woman for referring to mankind a couple of months back, and said it should be people- kind, whereas the European Union is at least proposing humanity, so that's slightly less clunky than Justin's offering.

LOFTUS: It's less clunky but "Man" is still in there. They'll -- they'll never--

STEYN: Yes.

LOFTUS: --they'll never get rid of it. And even in female--

STEYN: Yes.

LOFTUS: --humanity--

STEYN: Yes.

LOFTUS: --"Man" is in there. It's like a bad marriage. You can't get out. You can't divorce us, ladies.

STEYN: How--

LOFTUS: We're here.

STEYN: --how far do you think they should take that because like Baghdad, the capital of Iraq, I mean I find that -- I mean that's just not my Baghdad as the hipsters would say. Do you think -- do you think they should actually start, perhaps, renaming some of these cities and places as well?

LOFTUS: Sure. Yes, let's -- let's have just like Bag-person for--

STEYN: Yes.

LOFTUS: --for Baghdad.

STEYN: That's right (ph).

LOFTUS: These -- and I feel bad -- I feel bad for the translators, the ones that have to use -- they can't use he or she anymore.

STEYN: Yes, no.

LOFTUS: That's how I thought you learned another language was the masculine and feminine. These EU meetings that -- that the translators, they're just going to be reduced to using whistles and clicks.

STEYN: Yes.

LOFTUS: The whole thing's going to look like a Dolphin Show at SeaWorld.

STEYN: No. And -- and -- and they've got like a 137 official languages because it's not just in the European, it's not just the obvious ones, it's like things you don't think about like Welsh. And, basically, everything's going to come out sounding like Welsh by the time they're done with the vacuuming the language here.

LOFTUS: Yes. That and -- the Welsh they're -- that's a -- that's a tough language. God help anybody that has to eliminate gender-specific pronouns from that one. This is just -- don't they have anything better to do in the E -- the EU, like France is on fire every other night? Can't they like fix a bridge or paint something?

All this -- this -- this don't say him, don't say her, it's just absolutely ridiculous. The whole thing has turned into a Monty Python skit. It's like The Ministry of Silly Walks is in charge of Europe.

STEYN: Yes, it's running an entire continent now. Do you think -- but you say don't they have anything better to do? There are people who actually think this stuff is important.

LOFTUS: Those people are idiots. And they -- they need to be -- they need to be--

STEYN: In the spirit of the season--

LOFTUS: --thrown out of the country of their origin.

STEYN: These people are idiots. You have -- you have so much love for your fellow man or whatever, your fellow people-kind, you're brimming with it.

LOFTUS: That's right. I was going to cut you off. Don't use -- don't you assume my gender, Mark Steyn.

STEYN: OK. OK. We're going to find -- come up with a new pronoun just for you. Thank you very much, Michael and -- and Happy New Year. Let's hope for a manly New Year for Michael, a very (ph)--

LOFTUS: Yes. A very manly Christmas, New Year.

STEYN: Yes, we wish you a manly Christmas.

President Trump--

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TEXT: THE LIBERAL SHERPA.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEYN: Oh, got to love that. President Trump routinely refers to the Russia investigation as a witch-hunt. And now, some real-life witches are angry at him. CNN recently profiled witches, who say that President's -- Trump's use of the term demeans the suffering of actual witches and warlocks, if you'll pardon that masculine term.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Witches tend to side with Liberals. And you know what they wish? President Trump would stop saying about the Mueller investigation--

TRUMP: It's a witch-hunt, that's all it is.

The witch-hunt, as I call it.

Russian witch-hunt.

This is a witch-hunt like nobody's ever seen before.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The author of Witchcraft Activism calls the President's use of the term--

DAVID SALISBURY, WITCHCRAFT ACTIVISM AUTHOR: It's really disgraceful. I mean thousands of people were executed in Europe on suspicion of witchcraft.

AMANDA YATES GARCIA, WITCH, HEALER AND THE ORACLE OF LOS ANGELES: There's a lot to be offended by -- by Donald Trump. And I think his use of the term witch-hunt is -- is very low on that list of priorities for most witches. But nevertheless, it does demonstrate his ignorance, as usual.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tweeted someone, "I guess he will have to start referring to it as a Wild Goose chase, but then, that might offend geese."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEYN: Yes. That's the CNN level joke. I think I prefer EU ones.

Cathy Areu is the Founding Publisher of Catalina Magazine and this show's Liberal Sherpa, and it's always great to see her. Cathy--

CATHERINE AREU, FOUNDING PUBLISHER, CATALINA MAGAZINE: Yes (ph).

STEYN: --where do you stand on this witch-o-phobic, warlock-a-phobic language from President Trump?

AREU: It's -- it's a new time. And witches are a minority in our country, actually. So, we need to respect minorities in our country. And they're speaking up. And they're saying that this is an old-fashioned term, and it's not acceptable anymore. And, as a group, they do not appreciate it. And they would prefer it not to be used. So, they're offended by the term witch-hunt.

STEYN: Yes.

AREU: And there are 1.5 million witches in our country. And there's 1.4 million people who are Presbyterian.

STEYN: Right.

AREU: So, this is a large group.

STEYN: Right. Right. And nobody talks about--

AREU: It's, you know, the wicked (ph)--

STEYN: --Presbyterian hunting. I want (ph)--

AREU: No, exactly.

STEYN: --I want to come back to that 1.5 million--

AREU: Yes.

STEYN: But this -- this thing, witch-hunting, it's like England had a Witch-finder General, I think, he was Matthew Hopkins. He got paid a pound- -

AREU: Right.

STEYN: --for every witch he found. So, it was a real thing.

AREU: It was a real thing, of course. Women who were strong--

STEYN: Yes.

AREU: --considered strong in our country than the Puritan society were witches.

STEYN: Right.

AREU: So, yes, it was a horrible thing. But it's outdated just as Donald Trump, perhaps, doesn't understand that now there's a movement.

STEYN: But -- but--

AREU: People who are one with nature call themself witches.

STEYN: Right.

AREU: Vegans, you know, they are witches.

STEYN: Yes, but wait a minute. Wait a minute. This -- let's come back to that.

AREU: OK.

STEYN: Because that's interesting to me.

AREU: What?

STEYN: These people are not exactly witches. They can't do anything.

AREU: What do you mean they--

STEYN: They tried -- well they tried to put a--

AREU: --it's not about hexing. It -- it's a new definition--

STEYN: --no, no, they tried to put a--

AREU: --it's a new definition of witching.

STEYN: Well -- well what's the difference between that and cultural appropriation like Rachel Dolezal pretending to be Black (ph)? If--

AREU: Right.

STEYN: --these witches supposedly put a hex on Brett Kavanaugh, and it didn't work.

AREU: They said those were (ph) really witches.

STEYN: Right.

AREU: Hexes are not -- this group says that that's not about hexing.

STEYN: Right, right.

AREU: They have nothing to do with the coven in Brooklyn who did the--

STEYN: Right.

AREU: --hexing on Kavanaugh.

STEYN: So, these--

AREU: You know, this is another group.

STEYN: --so, this is non -- what -- what do you call someone who belongs to a coven then?

AREU: Well that's the whole thing. The -- yes, yes, within the witch community, they're saying that you know your witch for these 15 reasons. It's on YouTube, actually.

STEYN: Right, right.

AREU: There's these wonderful videos. Instagram has a Witches of Instagram with 2 million post.

STEYN: Yes, but--

AREU: So, there's actually like guidebooks on how to be a proper witch in our--

STEYN: But wait a minute. What's the--

AREU: --society.

STEYN: --no, but that's like me saying, "Oh, I'm now a lesbian Hispanic because that just like feels cooler."

AREU: And it's OK.

STEYN: So, it's OK to--

AREU: It's totally OK.

STEYN: --so, so--

AREU: It's America. It's OK.

STEYN: --so it's self-identity politics.

AREU: It's fine, which is fine--

STEYN: That's--

AREU: --yes.

STEYN: But where -- where is all--

AREU: Why not? Why not?

STEYN: --where's all the cultural appropriation come from?

AREU: Well it has to be respectful. As long as you're not hurting others--

STEYN: Yes.

AREU: As you -- as long as you're not disrespectful then--

STEYN: But what is in this (ph)--

AREU: --which -- which they're saying Trump is being disrespectful by--

STEYN: You're--

AREU: --saying witch-hunt.

STEYN: --you're saying there's 1.5 million witches--

AREU: Yes.

STEYN: --who can't actually do anything witchy like put a spell on you but they--

AREU: They're doing witchy things that are not old-fashioned defined witchy thing.

STEYN: Oh, like, so being able to put a spell on you that's like--

AREU: Right, yes--

STEYN: --old-school witches.

AREU: --that's old-school, yes.

STEYN: Right.

AREU: Yes.

STEYN: So, what is a witch then?

AREU: Well that's what they're saying that instead of analyzing water, they're enjoying the water. They're drinking the water. It's about spirituality. Yes. So, it's a new movement.

STEYN: But what's the difference--

AREU: Millennials are identifying with it. So, it's -- it's almost like it's going away from Christianity and embracing nature, perhaps being vegan as opposed to eating meat. So--

STEYN: Oh, wait, so you're saying--

AREU: Yes.

STEYN: --being a witch like -- so it's not like in Harry Potter.

AREU: No.

STEYN: Right, right, yes--

AREU: No, no, no, that's movies, TV shows. No, no, no.

STEYN: No, no, no, no, but the witches like little (ph) Macbeth in the old days--

AREU: Right, right. No, no, no, no Shakespeare here. No. No 1400s.

STEYN: No, but no magic here. No Black Magic.

AREU: No, no, no hexing.

STEYN: Then--

AREU: These are good witches.

STEYN: But that's -- that's -- that's -- that's ridiculous--

AREU: It's -- it's -- it's real. It's -- it's actually real.

STEYN: No, but that's -- that -- that's like--

AREU: 1.5 million people, it's--

STEYN: --Pat Boone saying, "Oh, I'm Black now. We're moving beyond the whole skin color thing." What's -- what's -- what's the point of any of it then?

AREU: Well that's -- that's the whole point, I guess. We're moving in a world where everything should be accepted and it should be OK, as long as you're not hurting others.

STEYN: So that basically being a -- being a witch now, you -- you mentioned the despised Presbyterians who have now been outpaced--

AREU: They're not despised.

STEYN: --by the witches.

AREU: They're just a--

STEYN: No, no but they're like a--

AREU: --smaller group. They're smaller.

STEYN: --yes, they're just -- they're just on the downside. They're heading for the--

AREU: Christianity's on (ph) going down--

STEYN: And so--

AREU: --and witches going up.

STEYN: --and so being a witch is just like being a Presbyterian with vegan food.

AREU: I guess you could be a Presbyterian -- some witches say you could be a Presbyterian and a Christian and also witch.

STEYN: And -- and where do you think the Trump -- that the Trump witch-hunt thing? Is this a big in the -- in the witch--

AREU: I -- I -- the witches, perhaps, feel that he doesn't know when he says witch-hunt that there is a witch minority in this country, and they're just speaking up, letting him know, we exist.

STEYN: So, it's like saying, you're welshing on your debts and then Welshmen getting offended by it.

AREU: Totally.

STEYN: We need to -- the--

AREU: Totally. I have no idea what that means but yes.

STEYN: --the European Union is -- good.

The European Union isn't going (ph) far enough, Cathy. We need to outlaw not just male words but actually figures of speech as well. Thank you. It's always good to see you. You -- you're not -- did you -- are you flying off on your broomstick? Or is that--

AREU: With my coven?

STEYN: --stereotyping, yes--

AREU: With my coven?

STEYN: --yes, yes.

AREU: Don't stereotype me.

STEYN: No. And I'm--

AREU: Please, please.

STEYN: --sorry about that. I'm -- I'm going to get a coven, I think, for the next time.

If you live in the New York area, you might have seen the sky flash a deep unnatural blue last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC)

TEXT: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEYN: Many noticed the light was the same color used by the aliens who destroy New York in Independence Day. Others drew a comparison to Ghostbusters. Look at that. That is the same blue as in the alien movies.

But alas, Con Edison Power says it was all perfectly natural as far as bright blue flashes in the sky go. The company blamed the light on something called an arc flash at a power station in Queens.

No aliens in this time, but we will continue to be vigilant monitoring it into a 2019. By the way, some district court will say that Trump has to let in all those aliens. You know that's coming.

That's it for us.

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