Rep. Comer: Democrats' USPS concerns a 'baseless conspiracy theory'

This is a rush transcript from "Your World," August 17, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

NEIL CAVUTO, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: All right, Bill, thank you very, very much.

Well, the Democratic Convention has officially begun. Of course, it'll be a prime-time event for most Americans watching it virtually. The Republicans will be playing things out the same way next week, but the president raining on that parade today.

Normally, the party that is not adding to convention lies low. But when have you ever seen this president lie low? In Minnesota today campaigning for a state that he barely lost, hoping to make good, just as he did in Wisconsin four years ago, a state that he's going to be visiting next, this as Democrats gather to sing the praises of a ticket they say is simply unbeatable.

Is it?

Welcome, everybody. And happy Monday to all of you. So glad you're with us right now.

This is what is at stake, as we look at your political world today and the key speakers who will be addressing the nation tonight, first off, of course, with the likes of Michelle Obama. We're going to also be hearing some party luminaries that have really gotten a good deal of attention, including one who isn't a party member at all. I'm talking about the former Ohio Governor and presidential candidate, Republican John Kasich, who will be addressing that august gathering tonight, again, virtually.

But the fallout here is very, very real. Now, whether either side gets any sort of a convention bounce on all this hard to program. The candidate who generally needs the bounce more is the candidate trailing in the polls. Doesn't always work out that way. And whatever bounces come out of such gatherings can be short-lived.

Just check Michael Dukakis 1988 for that.

But, in the meantime here, let's get the read from Jacqui Heinrich on how the DNC plans to get the party going tonight -- Jacqui.

JACQUI HEINRICH, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Neil.

Well, Democrats are trying to project an image of party unity. They have progressive Senator Bernie Sanders juxtaposed with former Republican Governor John Kasich. That's an effort to show broad support among folks who want to vote President Trump out of office, despite considerable division the issues.

We're also set to hear from Congressman Jim Clyburn. He is credited with rescuing Biden's campaign after the South Carolina primary, really galvanizing support among black voters. A big issue for the Democrats is how this ticket gives black voters and other minorities a seat at the table.

So it's possible Clyburn, maybe even Michelle Obama, the keynote speaker tonight, will talk about representation on this ticket, which could make up last turnout from 2016. That was key back last cycle.

It is going to be a challenge to build energy without the crowds of years past on the convention floor. So, to focus attention, many speeches are going to be taped. Meantime, while the Democrats curate this image of a united party, Biden has gotten a lot flack for failing to regularly give interviews or hold press conferences.

But he did sit down with Cardi B. That was a strategic move to reach some young people. Listen to his message.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSEPH BIDEN, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: For example, in 2016, if 18-to- 23-or-24-year-olds had voted in the same percentage as the rest of the population, we would have had Hillary Clinton, not him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEINRICH: So, no curveballs there from Cardi, but the former Sanders supporter did challenge Biden on the issue of Medicare for all. That's one of the last remaining real gaps within the Democrats right now is how they approach health care.

So that might be another thing that we hear Sanders use his allotted speaking time tonight to touch on, Neil.

CAVUTO: All right, we will be watching very, very closely.

Jacqui Heinrich, thank you very, very much.

Again, she did give you an idea of who-who's speaking right now at this confab for the next four days.

In the meantime, some news to pass along to you. Remember how we told you how both the House and Senate had quit for August and weren't going to return a delay after Labor Day? Then along came Nancy Pelosi urging Democrats to return to stop what she said was the president trying to completely restructure the U.S. Postal Service.

She succeeded in getting them back. But, right now, there is going to be a great deal of debate as to how far some of the changes President Trump has orchestrated for the post office and getting to get the postmaster general himself to testify before a key House hearing a week from today.

Chad Pergram on these fast-moving developments.

Now, the vote on these changes to prevent them and go back to where we were on January 1 of this year, that is slated for Saturday, correct?

CHAD PERGRAM, FOX NEWS CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right.

It'll probably be a vote late in the afternoon or the evening on Saturday here. It's rare for them to recall the Congress, certainly in the middle of the August recess, rare to have a Saturday session. Here, you have a combination of that.

Some of that is facilitated to wedge this in between the Democratic and Republican Conventions. A lot of Democrats, rank-and-file Democrats, got in the ear of the House speaker over the weekend and said they need to act on the Postal Service, among them, Gerry Connolly, Democrat of Virginia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. GERRY CONNOLLY, D-VA: Well, it's not hard to connect the dots here. I don't think there's any mystery.

They're attempting to suppress the vote by using the Postal Service as a wedge.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERGRAM: Now, this will be a narrow bill, only focused on the Postal Service. It'll spend $25 billion for postal operations and halt changes to postal policy.

Some Democrats hope to expand the bill into other areas of economic aid for coronavirus, but that won't be the case. Democrats charge, the president is trying to weaponize the Postal Service at election time.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ROBERT MENENDEZ, D-NJ: This kind of suppression comes straight out of a dictator's playbook. It is shocking to see it in the United States of America.

That is a dangerous attack on our nation and our democracy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERGRAM: It's doubtful that Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell will consider the House bill. He argued that the Postal Service is fine.

But watch to see if Republican senators from rural states demand action. Mail delivery is important in those

regions. President Trump says he's just trying to make the Postal Service better.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: The post office is running very well. The post office -- now, look, if you look at the post office, for years, that's all people complained about. We're going to run it well and we're going to not lose so much money.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERGRAM: The top Republican on the House Oversight Committee, James Comer of Kentucky, called Democratic concerns about the Postal Service -- quote - - "a wild and baseless conspiracy theory."

Comer says that undermines the integrity of the election. And Comer will be on the dais a week from today, next Monday, when Louis DeJoy, the postmaster general, comes to testify before the House Oversight Committee - - Neil.

CAVUTO: All right, Chad, thank you very much, my friend Chad Pergram on Capitol Hill.

Let's get the read on all this from James Comer, the Kentucky Republican House Oversight Committee ranking member.

Where is this going, Congressman? You have Democrats saying the president is trying to use the post office to force his way and interfere in this election and mail-in ballots. What do you say?

REP. JAMES COMER, R-KY: Well, the Democrats are trying another scare tactic. This is very irresponsible.

As I said earlier, this is a baseless conspiracy theory. The Postal Service is on an unsustainable path. But that predates the Trump administration. That's been a problem for over a decade.

What the president is trying to do is to help the post office. The president is trying to do things to make the post office more efficient and to save the taxpayer dollars. That's what Americans want. That's why they elected a businessman to be president, to come in and make government more efficient.

The truth of the matter is, the Postal Service today has $14 billion cash on hand. That's enough cash to be able to operate for the next 13 months. So, the Postal Service does not need to bailout Saturday. They do not need a bailout before the election.

They can operate for another year. But the president is doing what I think most hardworking taxpayers want. He's trying to make government more efficient.

CAVUTO: But do you think he's doing it with the mail-in ballots as his real rationale, that he doesn't like them? The post office has handled absentee ballots just fine in the past.

And I understand and I get the notion of mail-in ballots, which are exponentially a lot more of them, that's a whole 'nother beast. But by making it more difficult for the post office to deal with the mail-in ballots, is he -- is he complicating the problem? Is he making it worse?

Some Democrats suspect that's by design. He wants to make it more complicated.

COMER: I don't think the president is trying to make it more complicated. The Democrats are trying to muddy the water here.

The problem isn't the Postal Service. The problem is the secretaries of state and the voter rolls. The president said today he's fine with absentee voting. That's what we have had in the past. And that's what we will always have moving forward, is the opportunity for people who can't vote in person, for whatever reason, they can vote by absentee.

What the president's problem is with is with universal mail-in ballots, where the secretary of states in certain states mail out ballots to every person on the voter rolls. The problem is, the voter rolls are wrong.

I can look here in Kentucky, and we have had a lawsuit in Kentucky with a former Democrat secretary of state to remove 300,000 names off the voter rolls. The liberal courts threw that out.

So, we have potentially between 100,000 and 300,000 names currently on the voter rolls in Kentucky that aren't eligible to vote. That could make the difference in the presidential election. The Democrats know that. They're using the post office as a scare tactic to hide from the fact that they're wanting to have universal mail-in ballots, they're wanting to vote illegal Americans, like they're doing in states like California.

CAVUTO: What if they get it wrong?

If it's as you say, if it's as you say, Congressman, what if you get it wrong, and, in fact, the mail-in ballots actually help Donald Trump and Republicans, and the final count ultimately reveals that? Would you then say, we have got to continue our investigations into fraudulent mail-in ballots, if, in fact, they produce a Republican victory?

COMER: Well, I think the mail-in ballots will help the president, if they're -- if they're regular absentee ballots, like the president voted himself in Florida this week.

Absentee ballots are...

CAVUTO: No, what if the very universal ballots themselves, what if the universal ballots themselves end up helping the president?

COMER: Well, I mean, that's something that history will determine, I guess.

But the problem...

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: But then it wouldn't be a scandal, right? Then it wouldn't be a scandal at all, right?

COMER: It would still be a scandal. It would still be a scandal.

We should have accurate voter rolls.

CAVUTO: All right.

COMER: We have a problem with many states with the voter rolls.

And that's what the issue is. It's not the Postal Service. The president is trying to make the Postal Service more efficient for the taxpayers. That's one of the things that he campaigned for president on.

CAVUTO: All right. Got it.

Congressman, thank you very much.

Fair and balanced, I want to get the read from Ben Cardin on all of this, the Maryland Democratic senator.

Senator, let me flip the question around then. If, indeed, the universal ballots and the mail-in ballots end up being something that works to Republican advantages, would you still be OK with that?

SEN. BEN CARDIN, D-MD: Oh, absolutely.

The records have shown, the studies have shown that universal mail-in balloting, the amount of fraud -- and we don't want to see any fraud in elections -- is through far less than people who are denied the opportunity to vote that are eligible to vote in in-person voting.

So, you're -- the accuracy of the vote is not going to be affected by mail- in ballots. What we want to see is the highest possible percentage of eligible voters who are registered casting their votes and getting their votes counted.

So, we have always had absentee ballots, which is correct. We have made it easier and easier for those that are not in town, particularly our military, to vote. Now, with COVID-19, we know the safety issue, that it's very important that we make it easier for people to mail in their ballots, not only for their own safety, but for the safety...

CAVUTO: But you can see, right? But, Senator, you can see that the president might have a point that, at the very least, it would overwhelm the system.

Absentee ballots are one thing. Universal mail-in ballots, that would exponentially be a factor, perhaps 10, 20, 30 times that volume. And then will some argue that's conservative, as you know, Senator, that, even if there are not deliberate fraudulent plans afoot, it would overwhelm the system, and even if everyone is on the up and up, counting them would take forever.

CARDIN: Well, we're going to have a challenge if we don't have a large number of mail-in ballots, because the number of voting places are being contracted. The lines at the polling places have been unacceptably large.

A lot of people are going to be afraid to stay in those lines for a long period of time because of COVID-19.

We have adequate time to prepare for the counting of absentee ballots. If they're mailed in earlier, there is a way in which you can get those results on election night. We have done that in Maryland.

So, no, I don't think it delays the overwhelming number of ballots being counted. But, yes, today, we have to wait.

CAVUTO: But it would complicate it, right? But, Senator, wouldn't it complicate it, sir?

By that, I mean there are some postal services where they're put in bins, sometimes public bins, readily accessible to anybody. There isn't even a clean or clear process how to retrieve those ballots from those bins, so that it's not consistent in the various states that would pursue this.

So, the president might have a point, all right, to look at this now and enact this now, what's the rush? Maybe go in that direction four years from now, get it down and get it right, than invite a problem ahead of the fact.

CARDIN: Well, there should be a secure collection process. That's the responsibility for integrity in elections. So, there should be a secure spot.

CAVUTO: But there isn't. Unfortunately, sir, there isn't. There isn't a consistent secure process.

CARDIN: I can you tell us -- in Maryland, we do have those secured sites for collection of ballots.

So, the urgency is COVID-19. The urgency is that people are really justifiably concerned about long lines on Election Day, getting adequate election workers, because election workers are generally -- have been a larger percentage of older people who work as election judges.

They don't want to be exposed. It's going to be very, very challenging for states that have had traditional day voting to get the personnel to get this done right.

CAVUTO: All right.

CARDIN: Let's do it in a public safety way, where there may -- may be an inconvenience on getting the certified election done on election night.

But, for public safety and participation, we should err on the side of allowing more people to vote in a safe manner.

CAVUTO: All right, we will watch it very, very closely.

Senator, thank you very much for taking the time.

A little bit later here, if there's some deja vu in poll numbers and everything you have been seeing, it's because the gap between the president and the Democratic challenger right now is roughly what it was four years ago, when he was the challenger to the incumbent party in power, the White House.

There is a common theme here that John Podesta knows well, working closely with Hillary Clinton then -- his thoughts on what happens now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: All right, first in Minnesota, the president moving on to Wisconsin, a state that he won last go-round, barely lost Minnesota, but he's doing all of this at a time when Democrats are gathering in Wisconsin, at least virtually, for their big convention.

Right now, Mike Tobin joins us out of Oshkosh, Wisconsin, where the president will follow up with remarks he made in Minnesota -- Mike.

MIKE TOBIN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: And, Neil, the president is really barnstorming the -- or I should say are really trolling the Democrats as he barnstormed around the flyover states, and the Democrats won't even gather in the same room, here Wittman Airfield.

The campaign limited the crowd to about 500 people. They're certainly not six feet apart. It is open air. And about half of the people here are wearing masks.

Now, as the president stopped in Minneapolis, he hit on a lot of familiar themes, that he is the law and order president, that liberals are weak, particularly the liberal leadership in Minneapolis. He went after Senator Kamala Harris, saying, when people learned about her, she sunk like a rock in water.

As for the DNC convention, he says, with all of the remote and taped speeches, it's going to be boring.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Michelle Obama, her speech is taped. Why don't they tell me that? I will tape my speech next week. I will tape it. It's a lot easier.

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: I will make sure it's perfecto. Every word will be perfect.

Do you want to go to a snooze? When you hear -- when you hear a speech is taped, it's like there's nothing very exciting about it, right?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TOBIN: Democrats, by contrast, have been unusually quiet.

The Biden campaign skipped all the Sunday shows. Joe Biden did pop up to do an interview with the performer Cardi B for Elle magazine. In that interview, he promised free college paying for by taxing corporations, and he encouraged the youth vote.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Your generation and the young millennials beyond that, they can own this. They can own this outcome. And they can own what happens in the next election. They are the ones that can change things dramatically, if they show up and vote.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TOBIN: And talking with Trump supporters at this event, they don't believe that the president's appearance here is irresponsible, as the Democrats say. They believe it shows his level of commitment -- Neil.

CAVUTO: Mike Tobin, thank you very much, Mike Tobin in Oshkosh, where the president will be addressing folks in a little less than an hour from now, I think about an hour from now.

Lee Carter with us right now.

Lee, you're a darn good pollster. You know something about the sentiment of Americans right now. And we do know these polls are narrowing a little bit. The CNN one stands out that has the president within four points of Joe Biden. You also remind me, don't clasp onto to any poll.

But, having said that, I do follow a trend. It wasn't that long ago that the president was trailing by double digits in some of these polls. Now, they're all over the map. I get that. But I'm beginning to wonder whether the trend or the tide could be turning. Your thoughts.

LEE CARTER, REPUBLICAN POLLSTER: It does appear that the trend is shifting some.

Now, the CNN poll seems to be an outlier at this point. But it is a huge change from their poll just a few weeks ago. And so what we're seeing right now is the president is much, much closer, especially in the 15 key battleground states, and that's where this election is going to be won and lost. So that's really, really good news for the president.

I think what we also need to be focused on in the polls is how little people know about Joe Biden, despite the fact that he's been in the public eye for a really long time. Only a third of voters feel like they know what a Joe Biden presidency is going to look like. So, this week is very, very important for Joe Biden.

He's got to make the case on what he's going to do for America. Now, specifically, people are very, very concerned about what he's going to do for America's economy. A lot of folks are very concerned about what this means for taxes. He has made the case that he is going to build a better America.

What does that mean exactly? Americans are eager to hear what that's going to look like. And, clearly, the president is out there to try and create his own narrative at the same time as Joe Biden's trying to create his.

CAVUTO: The president obviously not wasting a nanosecond, not doing what, conventionally, the party that's not anything a convention does, that is, to hang low and let the other guys do something. I'm sure that's something the Biden folks will think of next week.

But there's no time to waste, right? And that seems to be the president's thinking in going to these battleground states. What do you think?

CARTER: I think his thinking is that, if -- no one's going to tell his story better than he is, so he's going to be out there vocally, loud, and trying to show a huge contrast between him and Joe Biden.

I think one thing the president really loves is these rallies, because he's unscripted most of the time, or at least he goes off-script. It feels really rough. He's very much in touch with the people. It's very raw. It's very authentic.

And I think he wants to do a big contrast to Joe Biden, who is going to be very, very scripted. It's going to be a very produced convention. We saw Hillary Clinton did the same thing. She had a very produced convention back in 2016.

And I think we're going to see something very, very similar tonight. And it's going to be very, very difficult to even see the chemistry and all of that in the virtual conventions. So, this is going to feel very, very produced. And it's going to be huge contrast to what the president is going to be doing out there in person.

CAVUTO: Or what he does next week at his convention.

CARTER: No doubt.

CAVUTO: Thank you very much, Lee Carter, on all of that.

In the meantime, we are still following these rampant demonstrations and looting episodes that have popped up across the country, particularly in Portland.

But when one was caught on tape of someone trying to help, well, it sticks.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: All right, you got fighting over the virus, fighting over the post office, fighting over, well, just fighting.

And look what happened to the Nasdaq. It hit its 33rd record high of the year, the S&P within just a couple of points of all-time highs -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: He was just trying to help.

And in the Portland uprising that's getting international media attention, the difference was, this was caught on tape.

Dan Springer on what transpired and the fallout from that now -- Dan.

DAN SPRINGER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Neil, this was a vicious beating that happened during a Black Lives Matter protest last night.

And we have to warn our viewers, this video is disturbing. It happened around 10:30 last night in downtown Portland. A man is pulled from his truck after crashing into a tree. He's then punched and kicked on the ground.

The whole thing actually started several minutes earlier, when the man apparently tried to help another person who had been assaulted and robbed. The crowd then turned on him. He tried to get away, but was followed. And then one of the protesters took a running start at him and kicked him in the head, knocking him unconscious for quite some time.

There were no police officers anywhere in sight. We spoke with a man who witnessed the whole thing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DREW HERNANDEZ, WITNESS: This was violent, extremely violent. Sometimes, I forget that I'm walking the streets of an American city in the Northwest. Sometimes, it feels like you're walking in a Third World country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SPRINGER: Portland police have not responded to us, so we don't know the victims condition. As of this morning, police had not made an error.

So, we will follow the story, of course, Neil. It's important to note that this took place three days after the Oregon State Police pulled out of Portland. And that happened just a couple of days after the local DA said that he would no longer prosecute nonviolent crimes -- Neil.

CAVUTO: And what's remarkable about that, Dan, is, they knew people were recording this and they didn't seem to care.

SPRINGER: There were cameras everywhere, but it didn't stop that attack.

CAVUTO: Absolutely.

SPRINGER: Yes.

CAVUTO: Amazing, Dan. Thank you very, very much.

All right. Well, as Democrats gather for their convention, their virtual convention, a lot of them are pretty happy about polls that seem to say they can't lose. Along comes John Podesta to remind them, been there, done that, be very, very careful about that.

Hillary Clinton's former campaign manager, Bill Clinton's former chief of staff, John Podesta -- next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, 2012)

CAVUTO: Here comes potentially a milestone.

Welcome, everybody, from the Convention Center here in Charlotte, North Carolina, on a day, maybe within minutes, if you look at the lower right portion of your screen.

Just as Democrats kick off their convention, and a number once too unfathomable to even appreciate, $16 trillion, the amount we owe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAVUTO: All right, two things stand out there, the debt, of course, which was rocketing at -- to $16 trillion -- we're at $26 trillion today -- and my toupee back then.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: Man, oh, man, I didn't realize. What the heck? That looks hideous.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: Thanks, guys, for letting the world see that all over again.

Hillary Vaughn with us right now, because, you think about it, Hillary, as everyone gathers -- and it's a pox on both parties' houses. The spending has run amok. Now we're $10 trillion higher than we were. We have John Podesta coming up. He was chief of staff under Bill Clinton, the last president to get that under control. It seems like a century ago.

But no one is mentioning the debt right now. No one's mentioning deficits at all right now, are they?

HILLARY VAUGHN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: No, they're not, Neil.

But one thing that they are talking a lot about, the presumptive nominee, Joe Biden, is talking about raising taxes to bring in more tax revenue.

And, as the Democratic Party gets ready to make their platform official, President Trump is pointing out the price tag of all of these plans and saying -- pointing out where the money is coming from, taxpayers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRUMP: Biden and Harris get into power, they pledge to raise your taxes by $4 trillion, which, put in very simple terms, mean many of you will have to pay double and triple the taxes that you're paying right now.

(BOOING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUGHN: Biden has been open about raising taxes.

The Tax Foundation, though, says that, under his plan, everyone's taxes would go up. The top 1 percent of households would pay close to 300,000 more dollars in taxes under a President Biden than they are right now under Trump.

Even the lowest-income households would pay about 30 bucks more in taxes. But Biden's tax hike would bring in about $4 trillion more in tax revenue over 10 years. But that's not enough to cover some key progressive ideas, like Medicare for all, free college and the Green New Deal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Because people don't want to pay the taxes for it. And that's why this whole thing about government has bad has been such a downer for the things that really matter to you and me.

No corporation making a profit should pay less than 15 percent tax on their profit. None. Zero. Everybody has to pay their fair share.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUGHN: But Biden's pledge to get a fair share, Neil, from everyone could put someone out of a job, because the Tax Foundation estimates that Biden's tax plan could actually cost businesses a lot more money and could put up to half-a-million people out of work -- Neil.

CAVUTO: All right, Hillary Vaughn, thank you very much.

I should emphasize that there are many who criticize those numbers.

The Tax Foundation, being a largely a conservative entity, has extrapolated some from the numbers that Joe Biden has proposed. He does want to raise the corporate rate from 21 to 28 percent. He does want to go after the top income earners in this country, return their rate to what it was under Barack Obama at its height, 39.6 percent.

Again, we can go back and forth on these numbers and whose are right. The fear does seem to be that, once you start raising taxes, it does spread far and fast.

John Podesta, anyway, joining us, Hillary Clinton's campaign manager four years ago. Of course, he was Bill Clinton's chief of staff when we were running surpluses.

And that seems like a century ago, John. I don't mean to cast aspersions on Democrats or Republicans.

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: But I'm just thinking.

I mean, will we ever get a handle on this? Because, when you mention debt or deficits with either party, their eyes glaze over, and they don't find it to be an appealing subject.

Furthermore, Americans, when polled on it, don't find it among their top five concerns. Are you surprised?

JOHN PODESTA, FORMER CLINTON WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Well, Neil, look, we're in a tremendous downturn. And we have got double-digit unemployment.

It is unclear whether we're going to really bounce back from this any time soon, given the fact that we can't get our arms around and control the COVID-19 crisis.

So, I think now is not the time to talk about deficits, as much as it's to talk about how you build back the economy. And Joe Biden has put out very specific plans.

I'm glad you fact-checked your own piece and noted that he has not said he would raise class -- taxes on the middle class. He did say he would raise taxes on the wealthy.

By the way, Neil, that was exactly what Bill Clinton said in 1992. The same arguments about it was going to kill jobs were made in 1993. And what happened? A long boom, 23 million jobs created. We created a surplus the three years I was chief of staff. So...

CAVUTO: Well, indeed, we had an Internet boom as well.

But the president did -- that is, the president-elect in '93 did talk about a middle-class tax cut that he had to shelve. And I understand how these things go.

But I'm just wondering, do you think the improvement -- and we did see steady improvement from our worst levels with the pandemic, not only the markets coming back, jobs now close to 10 million gained over three months now.

Now, we still have a big old hole to dig out of. But I'm just wondering if Democrats are concerned this advance is picking up steam and that maybe Joe Biden is a little too cocky. What do you say?

PODESTA: Well, I don't think -- I think they're running like every day is, they could -- they could stumble and lose this thing. They're going to do everything they can to win this race.

And that, as -- as we learned the hard way, we -- you have to do that. We did that, I think, in 2016. We still got upended right at the end, as a result of a little bit of interference by the Russians, Jim Comey.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: But do you think Joe Biden, John, is doing that to the degree you would like.

(CROSSTALK)

PODESTA: ... and we slip up.

CAVUTO: Do you think he's -- he's a little too conservative in the strategy he's taking, this rope-a-dope, or whatever they want to call it? He's laying back a bit too much, right? He hasn't done many interviews.

PODESTA: Well, look, I think -- I think what he is doing is what he needs to do, which is to build a field structure that can get out the vote.

He's putting out specific plans, like how to rebuild the economy, invest in green infrastructure, solve the COVID crisis, solve the climate crisis.

And I think this week will give him a chance and give all the other speakers a chance to talk about who he is like as a person, who Senator Harris is like, what her life stories have been about, but, most importantly, what are their plans to improve the lives of middle-class and working-class Americans?

Donald Trump promised that in 2016. And look where we are today, with so many people out of work, with people who are being thrown out of their houses, with debt high again for households.

And so I think they have a strong case to prosecute.

CAVUTO: I mean, to be fair, though, John, to be fair, though, I mean, a lot of this is driven by the virus. I get what you're saying, but we're well off our worst levels.

PODESTA: Well, but he screwed up the virus, Neil. So...

CAVUTO: I guess what I'm asking you, though, on Joe Biden, let me ask you about this.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: One of the things -- but let me ask you about Biden.

I mean, if he is playing it conservatively, if he is sitting on a lead, and avoiding the press, avoiding any possible pitfalls, maybe leaving that burden to Kamala Harris in the fall campaign, is he risking pulling like a Thomas Dewey in 1948, sitting on a big lead and thinking it's all his?

I covered that race. Not really.

PODESTA: No. I'll tell you...

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: But I'm wondering if he's risking doing that. What do you think?

PODESTA: Look, I will tell you, I don't think you can ever risk sitting on a lead.

You have to get out and aggressively campaign. And I think he's doing it. He's doing it in a new way. The COVID crisis has required that. This is going to be a different kind of convention. They're going to have to draw people in.

Normally, half of the convention is building off the energy of the people inside the hall. That's unavailable to them.

But I think they have got plans to ensure that the convention goes out to the people, that the kinds of ideas that they're talking about that will energize young people, people of color, not just the candidates themselves, but the ideas they're pushing forward, as I said, are very compelling. And they just got to tell their story.

Tonight, we will have somebody who I think, more than anybody, deserves credit for Joe Biden being the nominee, and that's Jim Clyburn, along with Bernie Sanders, Michelle Obama, John Kasich, who knows what it's like to run against Donald Trump.

Kasich warned the Republican Party what Donald Trump would do. And look where have we have gotten to.

CAVUTO: All right, perspective is everything, no matter who you talk to.

John Podesta, thank you very, very much.

Should be interesting, virtual or otherwise.

John Podesta, a key adviser to so many American presidents, of course, to Hillary Clinton four years ago. That is one area where he draws distinction, that he does not think Joe Biden will make the same mistakes in the end that cost her that election, by ignoring the battleground states that Donald Trump did not, and four years later continues not to.

All right, in the meantime, we have a lot more coming up here.

What's at stake, not only in the convention, but for the markets? Are they telling us about the outcome already?

After this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: All right, Nasdaq did it again, hitting a record.

This average, along with the S&P 500, which, for a while, was in a record territory today, is remarkable when you consider the comeback that these markets have made since the lows of March, a better-than-50-percent comeback that also has the Dow, even though down on the year, now a little more than 5 percent away from all-time highs there.

Unthinkable.

Now, as to what it means for the election and whether it could have any impact, Charlie Gasparino. He looks at a lot of these kind of numbers.

And I guess the key is, Charlie, when those numbers are being registered, right?

CHARLIE GASPARINO, FOX NEWS SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

And, like, when the Biden tax plan I just heard John Podesta talking about how there's no middle-class taxes. There are a lot of middle-class taxes in the Biden tax plan, just certain deductions that can't -- like, the standard deduction, which is not -- a lot of middle-class families are not going to be able to use that.

There's -- if you look at his plan, it's going to hit middle-class families. It's going to hit it's going to hit small businesses. And, obviously, it's going to hit corporate America in a major way, because there's taxes across the board.

That, at some point, if you believe that Joe Biden is way ahead, he's got this thing locked up, that at some point should be factoring into the -- into the market analysis, into -- particularly the S&P. And it's not, at least not yet.

So, what I have basically been hearing -- and I have been talking to a lot of traders on this.

CAVUTO: Well, how do you know it's not?

Could it ever be, Charlie, the markets may be, all right, worst-case scenario, Biden wins, worst case for them -- I'm not talking money guys.

GASPARINO: Yes. No, I got you.

CAVUTO: But he doesn't take the Senate with him, and his Federal Reserve is doing what it's doing. You certainly wouldn't be able to hike rate -- I'm sorry -- hike taxes in this environment. So, maybe they're seeing that and the limitations of it.

GASPARINO: Yes, I mean, let's be clear here.

None of this is -- I don't want to give any absolutes here. This is sentiment. This is what people are talking about. And the S&P has -- is a pretty good indicator. If it's higher, if it's up to three months before the election, the incumbent generally wins, like 85 percent of the time, since the 1920s.

But what you really have here is, the market saying, I think, Neil, is what you hit on the head, that Trump is not guaranteed a loss. He can make it close. He might win. The Republicans might keep the Senate. That would thought all the crazy stuff, economically, at least the way the market feels, is going to come out of the Democratic Convention tonight.

And let's face it. The Democratic Convention tonight, it's virtual. It's going to be featuring Bernie Sanders, Ocasio-Cortez, Elizabeth Warren. All those people are like -- if you're an investor, you really have to watch your pocketbook, because they have a bullseye out for you.

And it's very fascinating, Neil. I have been talking with people, Democratic supporters of Biden and Harris, who -- and others, who are basically saying to put out the word that Biden and Harris are really moderates. All these lefties are up there just because it's for show.

CAVUTO: Right.

GASPARINO: They didn't show up to -- in 2016. That didn't help Hillary enough, so we want them there. That's why we're giving them a chance, but we're really going to be moderate when they govern.

I will say this. Look at the Democratic Party platform. It is heavily influenced by Ocasio-Cortez, by Sanders, by Warren. And the plans that Joe Biden and Sanders and Harris are putting forth economically are very, very -- they're to the left of Barack Obama.

And, yes, there are many middle-class tax increases in there.

CAVUTO: All right.

GASPARINO: Maybe not purely on rates, but in deductions and other things. It -- it could be pretty scary.

CAVUTO: Well, and Republicans are pouncing on that, also using the example, look how the AMT started.

GASPARINO: Yes.

CAVUTO: It was supposed to ensnare just a few millionaires like you, who are trying to avoid taxes, and it spread to half the residents of this country.

GASPARINO: Who can blame me?

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: Thank you. Thank you, my friend. Always good seeing you.

All right, here's the thing about an Arizona school district. Everything was all dotted and crossed for the kids to return to school. Then the teachers had a sick-out. It was a widespread sick-out. Guess what?

School canceled -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: All right, a story of a school district in Arizona all set to have the kids go back to class.

What they didn't count on in the district is that so many teachers would call into cancel, a massive sick-out that prompted Gregory Wyman, the J.O. Combs Unified School District superintendent, to say, all right, no classes.

Greg was kind enough to join us right now via Skype.

Superintendent, thank you for taking the time.

Man, oh, man, what did you do? I mean, what number did you get, superintendent, you said, all right, this is not going to work?

GREG WYMAN, SUPERINTENDENT, J.O. COMBS UNIFIED SCHOOL DISTRICT: Well, Neil, thank you for having me.

CAVUTO: Thank you.

WYMAN: The issue at hand, more than anything else, is, the instructional model that we're using for kids this year, which came out of a survey of our parents and our staff, based on what the spring looked like, had teachers teaching -- quote, unquote -- "a normal classroom," in the sense that they may have 30 kids.

Some of those may have been in person and some of those would have been virtually. But that meant we had to have enough teachers so that we could put kids into a classroom and we could safely monitor them.

And so what we ended up having is not enough teachers showing up that we -- and we did not have enough substitutes or district office personnel to get in all the classrooms, so that we could safely put kids -- or monitor kids in the classrooms. And that's a situation where we finally decided that, for the safety of our students, we unfortunately could not -- could not have school.

CAVUTO: So what do you do now?

WYMAN: Well, we're trying to look for solutions.

I think the real issue that's at hand, to be totally honest, is the lack of a comprehensive and coherent plan at the state and federal level for, how do we reopen schools? I don't think this is going to be a situation that is unique to Arizona or unique to our district.

I think you have a situation that's very polarizing, 50/50 split on what people think should happen. And so it gets a little more difficult. We're going to continue to work with all the constituents involved to try to come up with a solution.

It's not a simple solution. And we just continue to look and see what our numbers are and how we can work a way to get to get our kids back in. That's our obvious goal, virtually or in person, is to get kids in.

But without a coherent plan, in essence, what's happened is, is, you put a lot of pressure on superintendents and school boards to make decisions that are very, very difficult, given the nature of the community.

We could talk about safety from the standpoint of the teachers. We can talk about safety in terms of mental health from the standpoint of students. You got community members that want kids in. You got community members that don't want kids in.

And it's creating a very polarized and difficult situation for schools around the country.

CAVUTO: Yes, and makes your job very, very difficult.

You never dreamed of this, superintendent, when you became superintendent, you would have to deal with stuff like that.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: Gregory Wyman, the Arizona J.O. Combs Unified School superintendent.

Just a microcosm of what's happening across the country, as people debate, should we go back? We shall see.

Here comes "The Five."

END

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