This is a rush transcript from “Your World with Neil Cavuto," July 30, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
NEIL CAVUTO, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: All right, thank you very much, Bill.
We are following a lot of developments here concurrently. And a lot of it has to do with stimulus round three, four or five, whatever you want to call it, at least a trillion bucks that we're talking about here.
Nancy Pelosi has already been planning to meet with Steve Mnuchin, obviously others at the White House, Mark Meadows, the chief of staff. They're trying to come up with a way to bridge the gap, particularly on these jobless benefits, whether they continue at $600 a week at the federal level, or they start paring them down.
One thing is sure. They're a little closer than where they used to be. But time's running out to get anything done, so that it can take effect because time, as I say, is running out.
Welcome, everybody. I'm Neil Cavuto, and this is "Your World."
We have a crazy market day to tell you about too, responding to all these crosscurrents and developments, and the president talking about possibly postponing the election, and Republicans and Democrats coming down hard on him over those remarks.
We are going to get a gauge of that and the fallout of that, because it did affect your money for a brief while today.
In the meantime, these stimulus talks and where they stand, another coronavirus relief bill, where they're arguing over the details and the dollar signs.
Chad Pergram with more on that.
Hey, Chad.
CHAD PERGRAM, FOX NEWS CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Neil.
Well, the talks are basically stalled. We have just gotten word in the past few minutes that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who was at the funeral of John Lewis in Atlanta today, she's going to meet again with the secretary of the Treasury, Steve Mnuchin, and the White House chief of staff, Mark Meadows, later tonight.
But what's developed in the past hour or two here is that the Senate is going to start debate. They had a procedural vote this afternoon to pry loose the House-passed $3 trillion coronavirus bill from May. Now, they're not actually going to consider that bill.
But what they're going to do, they're going to take that bill and start next week, strip it down to its studs, and put in provisions, interim provisions here, to extend unemployment benefits on an interim basis.
What this means is that the $600, that's going to expire, because the Senate is gone. The Senate is going to leave here in just a couple of hours here for the weekend. But that's gone. But they're going to start this next week. They're trying to dare Democrats to vote against this.
Here is the Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): They won't engage when the administration floats a narrower proposal. They basically won't engage, period.
The speaker and the Democratic leader are playing rope-a-dope with the health, welfare and livelihoods of American families.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERGRAM: Now, this is a maneuver by Senate Republicans to dare Democrats to oppose an interim extension of unemployment benefits.
Democrats want a broader bill, but there's dissension on the GOP side of the aisle on that. The Senate minority leader, Chuck Schumer, says Republicans can't pass a big bill at all.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): Once again, Senator McConnell engages in "Alice in Wonderland" tactics and speeches and words.
What he says is exactly the opposite of what is true. We're trying to negotiate. The Senate Republicans are not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERGRAM: Now, what this does is, it gives those vulnerable Senate Republicans facing competitive reelection bids this fall -- I would look at Martha McSally in Arizona, I would look at Thom Tillis in North Carolina -- it gives him the opportunity to vote for something.
And to get something out of the Senate, you're going to have to have 60 votes. There's only 53 votes on the Republican side of the aisle. And Mitch McConnell said on our air yesterday that he has about 20 senators who don't want to do anything.
So maybe this is an interim, narrow, very skinny type of proposal here, but they would still need Democratic assistance. And if they don't get over a filibuster next week, they can then turn this back around on the Democrats later next week -- Neil.
CAVUTO: Chad Pergram, thank you very much, Chad Pergram on Capitol Hill.
Let's go to Mick Mulvaney right now. You, of course, remember him, the former acting White House chief of staff, an expert on all budget matters as well.
Mick, very good to have you.
This battle back and forth, whether it's going to be a trillion dollars, whether it's going to be $3-$3.5 trillion, it is a lot of money we don't really have. I mean, we have poured about $10 trillion into coronavirus relief, if you add the trillions the Federal Reserve has spent to shore up and buy everything from regular bonds to corporate bonds, municipal bonds, and on top of these congressional measures.
Where's this all going?
MICK MULVANEY, FORMER ACTING WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Towards the debt. I mean, that's what it comes down to, right?
I mean, keep in mind that the budget of the United States every single year, the ones we used to write at the Office of Management and Budget, were about $1.2-$1.3 trillion. The government spends more than that. We spend about $4.5 trillion, but most of that is Medicare and Social Security.
But the actual appropriated budget is only $1.2-$1.3-$1.4 trillion a year. So, they're talking about a package that is at least as big as that done in a matter of only a couple of weeks. I think Secretary Mnuchin is right to be fighting back against this $3 trillion absurdity in the House.
But the bottom line here is, whatever they do spend is going right to the bottom line in terms of the debt and the deficit, and the interest payment responsibilities for next generation.
So, I think they're right to sort of take a deep breath and say, wait a second, do we really need to spend this much money?
CAVUTO: You know, on these unemployment checks that the federal government now doles out on top of state benefits, to the tune of $600 a week, it looks like they will remain in some way, shape or form, maybe not at $600, and that the latest rationale for continuing them, even at a smaller level, is that the economy seems to be hiccupping.
The jobless claims were up week over week for the second week in a row. And I'm wondering whether that is hurting Republicans' argument to stop them.
MULVANEY: Well, keep in mind -- and I think you have hit the nail on the head here. This is a federal supplement. This is not everything that goes into unemployment insurance. Unemployment insurance is run through the states, and that is continuing.
This is a federal supplement, a kicker on top of that. So, the $600 that we have had since, I think, March or April is on top of the ordinary benefits.
Keep in mind, during the financial crisis, the depths of the financial crisis in 2008, when the Democrats were in charge of everything, they didn't do $200 worth of supplemental payments.
There's a lot of politics behind this, Neil, believe it or not. Nancy Pelosi really doesn't want to see Donald Trump elected. And if she can try and make a political issue here and make hay, she's absolutely going to do that.
I actually think you would see them be talking about a smaller package if there were a Democrat in the White House, because they understand what the cost is. And the proof of that is, that's what they did the last time we went down this road.
So, I think that does get lost, the fact that the Democrats did less than this when they were in charge, and that it's a -- it's a kicker on top of this. People are not going to be left out in the cold. This was a supplement.
Is the economy struggling? Absolutely. The numbers you saw today are historic. But does it have the ability to come back quickly? It absolutely does.
CAVUTO: But it's not coming back quickly, right?
I'm just wondering now, given -- and it could be these states, where they had spikes in cases, and a lot of governors, many Republican governors, have had to stall their reopening, if not reverse it in some cases.
And I'm wondering if you -- just looking at this, stepping back, saying, this V-shaped recovery has stopped?
MULVANEY: A couple things.
I -- granted, the longer it drags out, the more it turns into a U, instead of a V. But keep in mind, one of the things I -- one of the reasons I think you're seeing some optimism still in the markets is that good news on a vaccine or good news on a therapeutic could change people's psychology.
Keep in mind, this is a health care crisis. There's no question. It's an economic crisis.
CAVUTO: Yes.
MULVANEY: But there's a huge psychological component here. If people were not as afraid to go back to work, you could see things turn around clearly.
Plus, as I think you have reported on the show earlier in the day, more than a trillion dollars of the CARES Act money isn't even out the door yet. So, there's a trillion dollars that they appropriated or they approved in April that hasn't hit the economy yet.
So, that money is all -- hasn't left, has not had the impact yet. You don't know if we need the additional money or not. Again, I think discretion is the better part of valor here.
And, besides, any -- any stimulus you do now, Neil, is going to have a real hard time affecting the economy before the election anyway. So, we should be looking at the economics of this, and not the politics. And the economics may dictate it's better to wait and see.
CAVUTO: Mick, the president has been saying to anyone who wants to hear it, even when he was in Texas yesterday extolling the virtues of our energy independence now, that all of that goes away if Joe Biden is elected.
And he's gone on to say the same about the stock market surge, the comeback we have had since the virus, that too, amid talk that the former vice president wants to raise taxes, certainly corporate taxes from 21 to 28 percent.
He has similarly said, you can kiss your 401(k) goodbye too in that -- in that environment. Do you buy that? Do you think that a Joe Biden presidency will tank the markets and the economy?
MULVANEY: Yes, I actually do.
And I don't think you have to take the president's word for it. You can actually take Joe Biden's word for it. This is what I mean when I say this.
When you do a federal budget, you don't just do that year. You do a projection for 10 years out. At least that's been the custom for a long time. Go back and look at the last Biden-Obama budget, and what did they predict for unemployment right now? Certainly, it wasn't as high as it was because of COVID, but, back before COVID, Biden thought the unemployment would be higher.
They thought growth wouldn't be lower. They didn't know how to get to 2.5 or 3.5 or 3 percent growth. They were just -- they were talking about that new normal. The country was graying, productivity was down permanently.
It was an anemic outlook on the future of the country. Remember, they were there eight years. And what did you have? You had the slowest recovery in history. You had a lot of things dragging on the economy.
We did not have...
CAVUTO: Well, to be fair, to be fair -- and I don't want to play politics with it, Mick, but they did come into the middle of a meltdown, and losing jobs at a million a month. And they did turn things around from that.
MULVANEY: Yes.
CAVUTO: You're right, the growth was slow and tentative from that, but it was certainly up from where they were eight years later.
The Obama folks have also pointed to the fact, under us, the Dow did triple, and then we gained millions and millions of jobs. So, who is the president to say that he inherited a mess and a depression? That's simply not so.
What do you say?
MULVANEY: Again -- but look at the -- look at the facts. You can go look at Joe Biden's economic plan right now. And he says he's going to create, I think, it's three or five million manufacturing jobs.
On day one of the Obama Biden administration, if you go to the end of that, they actually lost net manufacturing jobs. So, the proof is there, Neil.
Listen, I get it. And I know folks want to criticize the president for that. But you actually have a template here. Joe Biden's been in Washington a long time. You can go back and see what the previous administration did. And that's your choice.
Do you really trust that group to sort of take you out of this COVID recession? Or do you trust somebody else?
But I don't think it's hyperbole. Certainly, it's politics, because everything is politics these days.
CAVUTO: So, when they do say -- I understand where you're coming from.
When they do say, someone who would be inheriting a mess, let's say if Joe Biden were to become president, and he's inheriting this post-virus mess, if it is that still, they can point back to the fact that, well, we inherited a mess when I was with Barack Obama in 2008, when we were elected in 2009, and the economy was melting down. We're good at handling comebacks from meltdowns.
You say?
MULVANEY: Again, net manufacturing job losses, telling people the jobs were never, ever coming back. I mean, you can look at what actually happened.
You had a situation, yes, they had a chance to turn it around. Their recovery was smaller, I think, than any major recovery in history. You go back to what Reagan did in the '80s. The bounce-back after 2008 was much flatter than that. There's a track record here.
You really don't have to guess.
CAVUTO: But it was a bounce-back, right? I'm not here -- I'm not an apologist for either side here, but I just look at the numbers, right?
And we did come from losing a million jobs a month to gaining 200,000 to 300,000 a month. So, I guess, where are we on this? If you have to look at promises and forecasts that are wrong, aspersion on both parties, right?
MULVANEY: Yes. You know, I think -- I think your numbers...
CAVUTO: So, I guess, is it your sense, when the president says that it would lead to a crash or a meltdown and all of that, is that a fair assessment?
You are a pretty good number cruncher here. Do you think that's a fair assessment, that a rise in the corporate tax rate from 21 to 28 percent will be the wrong message to send markets and the economy?
MULVANEY: Look at the -- look at what they have telegraphed.
How does the Democrat Party generally -- so, let's try and take Biden out of this equation? How do they deal with downturns, OK? What they're going to want to do is spend a lot more money. You're seeing that telegraphed right now, in fact, not even telegraphed. They're doing it.
They're going to want to add regulation, not get rid of it. That's what they did at the end of the financial crisis. That's what Dodd-Frank came from. They're going to want to grow the government and increase the government control over the economy. That's what they do.
That's the fundamental difference between the two parties. And I think what the Trump administration has proven...
CAVUTO: All right.
MULVANEY: ... is that supply-side economics does work and can get you out of a recession, or even a slow growth model, like we had at the end of the previous administration.
CAVUTO: Mick, I'm going to take a leap here and put you as a maybe on Joe Biden.
(LAUGHTER)
CAVUTO: So, we will see what happens, all right?
Very good seeing you, Mick Mulvaney, the former acting White House chief of staff, much, much more, on that as well.
Thank you again, Mick. I do appreciate it.
The Dow down about 225 points today. It had been worse. What really got things going was this notion, not only the bad GDP numbers and claims numbers that many people had known were coming, and just for a little jolted to see it, but the president talking about the possibility that voter fraud might necessitate delaying the election.
Everyone came down on him like a ton of bricks over that.
We will have more after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAVUTO: Somewhere, Mark Zuckerberg might be saying, in your Facebook.
After getting ripped up on Capitol Hill yesterday virtually for Facebook's dominance and what many critics on the right left were saying a company that has gotten too big for its britches, well, it just got a little bigger.
Earnings are out after the bell right now. And they came in much better than expected. Revenue was stronger as well. Something they follow very closely, daily active users, shot up to close to 1.8 billion. And monthly active users also increased much more than forecast.
So the world still follows Facebook. And the stock is up in after-hours trading an additional 5 percent. My loose math tells me he just got $3 billion richer.
All right, we're also following developments right now going on in Portland, Oregon, 63rd night in a row of violence there, but they think -- they stress, they think -- they might get a control or a handle on this right now with a cooperation agreement between those trying to keep the peace and those, at least those in Portland, who are saying agents who are now disturbing the peace.
William La Jeunesse with more on what's happening -- William.
WILLIAM LA JEUNESSE, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Neil, we might be a turning.
The corner federal courthouse, conflict zone here, you can see the disinfectant and the power washers out. But the story, as you intimated, is right over here. This has been a staging area for the last month-and-a-half for the -- basically, the protesters to assault the courthouse on a nightly basis.
But, as of this morning, at sunrise, it was cleared out by Portland P.D. Literally, they cleaned it out of all the tents, all the homeless, all the protesters, forced outside, with batons and helmets.
Also, state troopers were in riot gear nearby, background, out of sight. Now, the feds are claiming that they are still here, not in the courthouse, as the governor said, HSI, Border Patrol and ICE, but they're still in Portland, per se.
U.S. Marshals, basically, they are still here, and they remain inside.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... farther than I can throw a rat. She said, ICE and CBP are going. I will believe that when I see it.
GOV. KATE BROWN (D-OR): Let me be clear. We live in a democracy, not a dictatorship. We cannot have federal troops roaming city streets across the country or abducting people into unmarked vans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LA JEUNESSE: President Trump replied by tweet, saying: "Kate Brown isn't doing her job. She must clear out and in some cases arrest the agitators and anarchists. And if she can't do it, the federal government will and we will not be leaving."
So, right now, the ball is in the protesters' court. What will they do tonight? We don't know. The majority are peaceful. They could declare victory and go home. But the burn it down, hate all cops minority may challenge the new order.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I believe that they're still -- protesters are going to come out, the same that they have every night, because no one really knows if the federal agents are actually gone. And this movement hasn't stopped. They're not going to stop.
Black Lives Matter is still Black Lives Matter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LA JEUNESSE: So, the feds insist this is a phased withdraw. Again, they're still in the city. They still have some tactical units inside.
But you got to believe, Neil, with the governor and the mayor's reputation the line, they might be telling these groups that have come out every night, hey, you better police herself, or we will.
We should find out in several hours if there's actually this change. But, as you can see, the police have got crime tape up there now. We do expect that no one will be in there tonight, allowing them to, if you will, assault the federal courthouse.
That's what they're thinking -- back to you.
CAVUTO: Thank you very much, my friend, William La Jeunesse, following all of this.
I want to go Judge Andrew Napolitano on this. He was leery of foreign agents, military agents, whatever you want to call them, troops or whatever, interfering in this and inciting problems. That was an argument some had said that the mayor, more to the -- particularly, Judge, saying that that was a big concern.
Does this ameliorate things? How do you see it?
ANDREW NAPOLITANO, FOX NEWS SENIOR JUDICIAL ANALYST: I think it does ameliorate things, Neil.
And good afternoon. It's always a pleasure to be with you.
I suspect that this was negotiated between representatives of the governor of Oregon and representatives of Acting Secretary Wolf of DHS. And they made a negotiation. And they each have their spin on it.
The governor's spin is, the feds are calling home. The feds' spin is, well, we're still here. We're going to wait and see what happens. At some point, they have other things to do, the federal troops that are there, and, at some point, they will leave.
They are probably on federal property. Neil, when they're on federal property, and they're protecting federal property, they have every right to do so. But when they leave federal property and engage demonstrators or try to enforce domestic law, against the wishes of the governor or the legislature -- I'm quoting the Constitution now -- this is not me -- they have no right to do so.
So, at the present time, if they're not visible, that's a good thing.
CAVUTO: I'm wondering too what this says about how to settle these kind of differences, where you have the president trying to intervene to say, look, you can't get a handle on this, I will.
Now, the mayor seems to have worked out something where local police will. I mean, they're still in uniform. You know exactly who they are. So, I'm wondering if it makes any difference whether it's a local entity getting involved to keep the peace or its agents.
NAPOLITANO: So, there's two things going -- that's a great question, Neil.
There's three things going on here. There's the people that want to destroy property to make -- somehow make their point that black lives matter. There's the people that want to express political opinion, basically dissent. That's constitutionally protected, and the government must protect it.
There's the absence of police, local and state, in the Portland area, in the Portland -- in this particular six-block area. They should be there. They should be there to stop violence and to protect the demonstrators.
Add to that the fence. The president, I think, was animated. He couldn't stand seeing the violence. He wanted to bring about law and order. Guess what? That's not a federal responsibility, under the Constitution.
I think that the governor of Oregon has persuaded the secretary of DHS that that is so. It's not even a close call as to whether that's a federal responsibility. The only federal responsibility in that area is protecting federal assets, which is the federal courthouse, a series of buildings owned by the federal government.
On the other hand, the streets have to be safe. And the local police and state police have to maintain some semblance of order, so that demonstrators are not hurt, and so that people who want to cause violence are arrested.
CAVUTO: All right, Judge Andrew Napolitano, thank you very, very much.
We're following a lot of developments here, including some numbers out of Amazon that are just out. It made a lot more money than anyone thought. The world's richest man just got a whole lot richer. I'm talking about Jeff Bezos, who was among those titans queried on Capitol Hill virtually yesterday.
His company made five times more money in the latest quarter than anyone thought it would, revenues handily beating it. So, a lot of people -- maybe you were among them -- during the pandemic who were buying things online, you were not alone. The stock is up better than 5 percent. Remember, it's a pricey stock, right now up more than 150 bucks.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAVUTO: The president is commenting on mail-in voting again and fears of a fraud that he said earlier today might prompt him to delay the national election. Republicans and Democrats were piling on him over that.
We will talk to the governor of Maryland about it next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAVUTO: The president is just tweeting right now about mail-in voting, saying: "We must know election results on the night of the election, not days, months or even years later."
These comments follow up on a tweet he made earlier today in which he said we might have to delay the election this fall, if there were serious concerns over fraud.
Now, that is not his call. That technically would be a congressional call. But it did stir up a healthy debate among Republicans and Democrats, who essentially said, you can't do that.
But he's kind of doubling down in trying to clarify it and say that he was glad that "the very dishonest lamestream media" has finally started to talk about the "risks to our democracy from dangerous universal mail-in voting, not absentee voting, which I totally support."
I do want to get into this with Governor Larry Hogan of the beautiful state of Maryland. He's got a great book out right now, "Still Standing: Surviving Cancer, Riots, a Global Pandemic, and the Toxic Politics that Divide America."
It's a fun read, because, well, he trashes a lot of people in that book as well. And he admits a lot of things about himself, which is always very refreshing.
Governor, very good to have you. Thank you.
(LAUGHTER)
GOV. LARRY HOGAN (R-MD): Yes, thanks for having me, Neil.
CAVUTO: Governor, let me ask you a little bit.
I don't want to go afield from your book here. But the president talking about possibly delaying the election of concerns of voter fraud, what do you think of that?
HOGAN: Well, I'm not really sure what the president's purpose was in tweeting that. I mean, sometimes, I'm confused about why he does these tweets.
But, obviously, I think you're hearing from others, he has no power to change that. And just the fact that he's saying that, it's not helpful to the discussion. He can't delay the election. And it's just another opportunity to cause mass pandemonium and people arguing back and forth.
And it's the last thing we need right now. I don't think it's helpful. And he obviously can't do it. And I'm not sure what the purpose was.
CAVUTO: You are a Republican governor in a very blue state. You won back- to-back elections by healthy margins, and yet you're not afraid to criticize the president. You essentially talk about how he's been botching it on the coronavirus.
Do you guys speak much at all, or what?
HOGAN: Well, look, I have been very careful not to ever go out of my way to criticize the president unnecessarily.
But I'm not afraid to stand up when I -- when I disagree. And I don't think every Republican should have to just march in lockstep and agree 100 percent of the time. And I don't think people should be afraid to stand up and speak out when they disagree.
I'm the chairman of the National Governors Association. So my job -- I'm representing Democratic and Republican governors all across America -- is to is to stand up and push back when we feel like we need more help or when we think the president is off-track.
And I thank them and praise them when they're doing something that we think is helpful, and I let them know when we think they're not doing something that we need.
I talk to him -- we were having weekly calls with the president, all the governors and the Cabinet...
CAVUTO: Yes.
HOGAN: ... where I spoke up every time on behalf of everybody.
Now the vice president leads all of those calls. I don't -- I haven't spoken to the president directly in a while. But we talk to the vice president and the members of the Cabinet, and we continue to try to make progress.
But I would say our relationship is a little frosty these days on a personal level, because he doesn't like anybody to provide any kind of constructive criticism.
CAVUTO: But he doesn't go at you aggressively. Some thought, in 2018, when you were running for reelection, he would. It was, by and large, a hands- off policy.
I'm just wondering. You have been critical of the direction he's sending the Republican Party and the message he's sending there. There had been talk that even you might -- briefly were considering challenging him for the nomination this year. What made you change your mind?
HOGAN: Well, I never was really pursuing that.
There were people who were reaching out and trying to encourage me. There were people talking about that, because I had won overwhelmingly in a very deep blue state.
CAVUTO: By the way, you said in your book -- in your book about that Cabinet officials, Cabinet officials of his were encouraging you.
Can you tell me who they were?
(LAUGHTER)
HOGAN: No, I can't tell you who they were, or I would have put it in the book, rather than just telling you today.
(LAUGHTER)
HOGAN: But it wasn't a big effort by the whole entire Cabinet trying to convince me. It was in passing reference of a couple of -- just two folks that were basically saying, look, you -- we can't tell you how much we appreciate you speaking up, and the things you're saying are important to the -- for the party and the country, and maybe you should just consider this, because there had been some reports and people talking about it.
But I never seriously pursued it. And I didn't think there was any chance of taking on the president in a primary. And it really wasn't about me running for anything.
But I have said repeatedly I'm a Reagan guy. I was chairman of the Youth For Reagan. I talk about a bigger tent party and doing a better job of communicating and having a more positive vision for the future, reaching out and broadening that tent, which I think -- my concern is, the president does a pretty good job of speaking to a portion of the base, but he's not doing a good job of reaching out to the voters we're going to need to win elections in the future.
CAVUTO: Looking to 2025, there had been talk -- you even discussed a little bit in your book -- about the not-Trump wing of the party, quiet now, although you're a little bit more vocal about being an alternative to the style and philosophy.
There are many in the we want to be another Donald Trump part. So, that's a crowded field. Being an alternative to the Trump style of leadership, could that hurt you?
HOGAN: Well, look, I think, after the November election, regardless of what happens, look, at some point, Donald Trump is not going to be the president and not going to be the leader of the party.
And the party is going to take a hard look at itself about what direction we're going to head. I'm not sure what direction it's going to go, but I want to be a part of the discussion. I want to talk about returning to some of our traditional Republican roots and about a time when Ronald Reagan would work across the aisle with Tip O'Neill and get things done, about how we won over independents and Democrats, and we won suburban women, and things that we're not doing anymore.
And I just think it's a discussion we're going to have to have. I have been able to do all of those things in one of the bluest states in America. And I think we're going to see if that's a better way to go about it or not.
Who knows. I mean, right now, there are at least 10 or 15 people that want to take over the mantle of Donald Trump. I'm not interested in doing that.
CAVUTO: Yes.
HOGAN: And there may be a big lane up the middle that maybe -- maybe wants to go back to the days of Ronald Reagan and George Bush.
CAVUTO: You know, real quickly, Governor, I had known that you had survived stage three non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. I was impressed with that.
I had no idea of some of the horrors you and your family went through of bankruptcy and all of this other stuff many years prior. It's a very uplifting story.
But your own battle, which you got quite personal about in the book, maybe has you in a different sort of frame of mind regarding the coronavirus.
HOGAN: I really didn't want to have...
CAVUTO: Go ahead.
HOGAN: Yes.
Well, I didn't -- I didn't want to write out one of those boring political books that I don't even enjoy reading, let alone writing.
(LAUGHTER)
HOGAN: This is a more unvarnished view of my life and I -- some of the challenges that I have been through on a personal basis.
And it did really have an impact on me, I mean, some of those challenges. I faced life-threatening cancer just five months after becoming governor, went through 24-hour-a-day chemotherapy. And I met so many incredible people going through difficult battles and struggles and their families.
And I learned to listen to the advice of the doctors, for one thing. But, in that case, I was worried about my own life and worried about my family and other patients I met.
In this case, I'm worried about all the people in my state and how to keep them safe.
CAVUTO: Yes.
HOGAN: And it's a much more stressful situation now about worrying about a whole lot more people and a lot more at stake.
CAVUTO: The only reason why I mention it, Governor -- and you did far more eloquently in your book -- that maybe it's changed your perspective or why you have such a different perspective on the virus itself and how it kills people.
Sadly, we learned Herman Cain the latest today.
HOGAN: Very sad.
CAVUTO: That this is more than just getting the economy back on track.
Does -- is that part of your thinking about leaders and how they handle and address the COVID-19 epidemic?
HOGAN: Well, getting the economy on -- back on track is also critically important.
That's the only reason I ran for governor, was to try to help small businesses grow and put people back to work. So far, in our state, we have been trying to do both at the same time. We have got 98 percent of our economy open. Our economy's doing 30 percent better than the rest of the country. We have got 8 percent unemployment, when some states have 25 percent.
But we also have some of the best health metrics. And we're trying to find that right balance about keeping people safe, getting them to wear masks and follow the rules, while also helping them safely, gradually and effectively reopen, because we have got to get people back to work while we're keeping them safe.
CAVUTO: All right, Governor Hogan, thank you. Continued good health. Best of luck with the book.
HOGAN: Thank you.
CAVUTO: Larry Hogan, the governor of Maryland.
HOGAN: Thank you.
CAVUTO: We were mentioning, sadly, about the passing of Herman Cain.
He died from the coronavirus. He was just diagnosed a few weeks ago. But it is another reminder that it's very real, and it hits anyone and everyone, regardless of their status.
Remembering Herman -- after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAVUTO: John Lewis finally laid to rest in Atlanta, Georgia, today.
That's where you will find our Steve Harrigan.
You talk about a star-studded goodbye, Steve, huh?
STEVE HARRIGAN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: John -- it was a remarkable setting here at Ebenezer Baptist Church that marked the end of six days celebrating the life of civil rights icon and Congressman John Lewis.
In attendance here at the funeral today in Atlanta were three former U.S. living vice presidents, George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, and Barack Obama.
Lewis, of course, became famous across the country in 1965 after leading a demonstration of peaceful protesters across the Edmund Pettus Bridge from Selma to Montgomery. They were set upon by Alabama State Troopers, beaten severely. Lewis suffered a fractured skull. It eventually led to the Voting Rights Act of 1965.
The video, the violence was captured and shown on television, outraged the nation.
Here's President Obama on Lewis' achievement.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Voting Rights Act is one of the crowning achievements of our democracy.
That's why John crossed that bridge. That's why he spilled his blood. And, by the way, it was the result of Democratic and Republican efforts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIGAN: Shortly before his death, Lewis wrote an essay for "The New York Times" which was published on the day of his funeral.
In it, Lewis writes: "The way of love and nonviolence is the more excellent way."
He stuck to that principle of nonviolence throughout decades of struggle -- Neil, back to you.
CAVUTO: Steve Harrigan, thank you very, very much.
We will have more after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) CAVUTO: A lot of kids and their parents are facing a lot of burdens when it comes to affording college this fall. That is whether they're going to make it there in-person or virtually.
Enter this next fellow at Rowan University in Glassboro, New Jersey, that just cut its tuition by 10 percent.
Dr. Ali Houshmand is the Rowan University president, joins us right now.
Well, Doctor, that was a big and a pleasant surprise to a lot of kids and their parents upon hearing this. You did it because of the hardships associated with the pandemic, right?
ALI HOUSHMAND, PRESIDENT, ROWAN UNIVERSITY: Of course. That's the main reason. A lot of Americans are hurting right now.
More than 40 million unemployed lost their jobs due to not their fault, or the economy was wonderful, and , suddenly, this happened.
So, as a result, we need to do whatever we can to help our students.
CAVUTO: Now, Doctor, what is the plan for the fall for your university, in- person, virtual, what?
HOUSHMAND: Yes, that we are going to have in-person, hybrid.
We have purchased a number of tests -- testings. We have set aside a 300- bed dorm as an isolation room, in case our students get hurt or come down with disease. We have got contact tracing set up. And we have also food deliveries that can be boxed and delivered to individual rooms. So, students can be in their dorms, have some activities, but take many of the courses online, unless there are laboratories or experiential type of learning that they need to come on campus.
So, very limited. The class sizes are going to be significantly smaller. So think about a class of 20 students, it could be 10 of them are present face to face, and balance of the month taking the courses online.
CAVUTO: Harvard is going strictly virtual online this fall, and is charging full freight for that, no cut in tuition as a result.
HOUSHMAND: Yes.
CAVUTO: What did you think of that?
HOUSHMAND: Yes. I don't know.
If I had the endowment of Harvard and the reputation of our Harvard, I probably would have done something different, but I'm sure they have the wisdom. They know what they're doing. And that's their -- that's their approach.
But, for us, we are a blue-collar institution. And we really have to take care of our people, because, if we don't, they just don't -- don't come. And it's that simple. Not everybody can go to Harvard.
CAVUTO: All right, that was a very polite way to not trash Harvard. You handled that very well.
Dr. Ali Houshmand, thank you very much, the Rowan University president, sharing some news with a lot of incoming students and their parents at least, that you're welcome back, classes in person, and tuition cut 10 percent.
You don't see too much of that these days.
We will have a lot more on the impact of that kind of stuff and the impact of one Herman Cain.
You know, conservatives and liberals loved him. How was that possible? We lost him, and both sides are now wondering, what happened?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAVUTO: My late Italian dad used to say, you can tell the measure of a man by how he treats people who don't like him vs. those who do.
Herman Cain stood out in life for winning over liberals and conservatives alike, many times not sharing his views, but liking the guy who had them.
Herman died this morning of COVID-19. He had been diagnosed, tested positive a little more than a few weeks ago. It was a fast descent for a man who had a fast and incredible life.
In his young 74 years, Herman Cain changed the way we looked at African- American businessmen and success stories. He was the head of a pizza giant, but he never gained a pound. He had views on stirring economic growth, but he never had a political axe to grind.
When others would rip up his ideas, he would stick to the ideas, usually with a joke, usually with a quick zinger and, when it came to me over the years, with a quick reminder, everything in balance, Neil, and in the fast- food industry, that includes you and ordering so many hamburgers.
He had a way of making you feel good, not only about yourself, but this country. He was optimistic, he was upbeat, and he never doubted that we would come through this virus, just like he never doubted we would come through all of these protests.
At our core, he would tell me, we were and are good people, all of us. We just bug each other sometimes. Over the years, we bugged each other a lot of times.
Let's look back at Herman, an incredible life.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HERMAN CAIN, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Neil, I was on your show in the early 1990s, when we were doing GDP growth of 4 percent-plus.
I know it can happen. And all of the economists who are saying, well, we can't do that for whatever reason, they are simply wrong.
You and I have lived through this. You and I have lived through robust...
CAVUTO: Don't make me sound as old as you. Now, be careful here. Just...
(CROSSTALK)
CAIN: Well, you know, let's just say, you...
CAVUTO: I know what you're saying.
CAIN: Let's just say, you're my younger brother, but you're not that younger, OK?
(LAUGHTER)
CAIN: We are a bunch of crazies, as they say, Neil.
And you know what I tell them? I said, yes, we're crazy. We're crazy about the Constitution, the Declaration, and we're crazy about freedom and liberty.
The difference between businesspeople getting elected to office at all levels is that they know how to solve problems. They know how to cut through the clutter and solve problems. We don't have any problem-solvers in Washington, D.C. All we have are politicians in Washington, D.C.
I worked my way up the corporate ladder when I was at Burger King to become a vice president. I worked my way up a second time to become a vice president with Burger King Corporation. And then, when I was made president of Godfather's Pizza, we were looking bankruptcy right between the eyes.
CAVUTO: I remember that.
CAIN: And we were able to -- we were able to save the company from bankruptcy. So, my experience is as a businessman.
CAVUTO: But you're going to -- that's all well and good, but you're going to have to tell people whether you ate the product at any of these places, because you have stayed very thin and fit all these years. I'm waiting for that answer, Herman Cain.
CAIN: I...
(LAUGHTER)
CAVUTO: Thank you, my friend. Very good having you.
CAIN: I not only made it. I ate it.
Neil...
CAVUTO: Yes.
CAIN: Neil, Neil, one last thing.
CAVUTO: Yes.
CAIN: Will you stop telling people I made a fortune?
I'm still working, you know, as a radio talk show host.
CAVUTO: Oh. You're a little concerned someone else might be listening.
OK, well. All right.
CAIN: I'm still working every night.
CAVUTO: You doth protest too much, Herman. All right.
(LAUGHTER)
CAVUTO: Continued success, my friend.
CAIN: For the IRS commissioner or one of the ex-commissioners to get up and say, well, I'm sorry or it shouldn't happen on my watch, well, you know what? I would like to send in an "I'm sorry" with my next tax return.
(LAUGHTER)
CAVUTO: Yes, I tried that. That doesn't necessarily work.
CAIN: That doesn't cut it.
Even if you were to take all of the money of the top 300 richest people in this country, Neil, it still wouldn't solve the problem. One of the things that you know I talk a lot about, make sure we're working on the right problem. Just taxing the rich and playing the class warfare card is not solving the problem.
We need a broader tax base and bold solutions.
You can tell I don't have an opinion, Neil, OK?
CAVUTO: No, no, I was wondering where you were coming from.
Herman, always good talking to you.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAVUTO: He made you think, and he made you laugh.
Of all the liberal critics, who would always say, there's no way to pay for your 9-9-9 plan, Herman Cain, when he was running for president and all of that, he would say, they doth protest too much, but they know not what they do.
He'd laugh. I'd laugh. Even the people who were criticizing him would laugh, because you just couldn't help it. He was that kind of guy. He was bipartisan when no one was. He was fair and balanced with all, when no one could even try.
And he's gone.
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