Prince's first guitarist describes jamming with a legend
Dez Dickerson reflects on his time collaborating with the pop icon on 'The Kelly File'
This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," April 22, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MEGYN KELLY, HOST, "THE KELLY FILE": Breaking tonight, a multi-agency investigation is now underway into the death of the legendary singer Prince. As authorities reveal new details about how he was found, an autopsy is completed. And there are serious questions tonight about who, if anyone, might be held accountable.
Welcome to "The Kelly File," everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly. A live look at Minnesota now where fans have been gathering to mourn the award-winning musician. It was just 24 hours ago that we first brought you reporting from TMZ that Prince had ODd. After his Atlanta concert a week ago. Just days before his actual death. Tonight, TMZ is reporting that Prince had actually taken Percocet the night of that concert and was given a so-called save shot to counter act its effects.
Numerous media outlets are now suggesting the singer had been battling a hip problem. Still, authorities are staying tight-lipped about his medical history refusing to say if he had been on any medication or if anything suspicious was found at his Minnesota home. However, they do believe that he was alone at the time of his death. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM OLSON, CARVER COUNTY, MINNESOTA SHERIFF: Because this was an unwitnessed death of a middle aged adult, the decision was made to process the scene. That is also normal protocol. It is not different from what we normally would do. There should be no inference taken from that. It's not unusual for them to come out and do those types of calls. There were no obvious signs of trauma on the body at all. The information we have right now is that he was last seen about 8:00 Wednesday night.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where was that?
OLSON: At Paisley Park. We have no reason to believe it's a suicide. The rest of it is under investigation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Harvey Levin is the executive producer of TMZ.com which has been breaking news on this case since the very beginning. Harvey, thank you for being here. So, now you are saying it was Percocet. That's what your sources are saying to you. Tell us.
HARVEY LEVIN, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, TMZ.COM: Multiple sources. What we are told is that this was a life-threatening overdose. And that the pilot -- the pilot landed this plane and the situation was so dire that's when the EMTs arrived they decide to give him the save shot right there at the airport. They didn't wait until they got to the hospital. They needed to act quickly and they did. And they were able to revive him and took him to the hospital, and that's when the doctor said, look, this guy is in bad shape, and he needs to stay here for 24 hours.
His people said the only way he is going to stay here is if he gets in a private room because we don't want everybody knowing that Prince is here, especially under these circumstances in the light of day. And the doctors said look, there is no private room for him here. And Prince's people said then we are out of here. In three hours later they were on a plane going back to Minnesota against doctor's advice.
KELLY: Any description of the condition that he was in on that airplane?
LEVIN: We are told dire. I mean, we are told this was a true -- remember, Megyn, he was 48 minutes away from his home in Minnesota. And it would have been much easier for him to deal with this if it was at all possible there. But they had to make this stop in Moline. And when you think about it, he was coming from Atlanta. It was 1:00 in the morning. And if he is landing in Moline and has to be rushed to a hospital in a strange town for him, you know how serious the situation is.
KELLY: Uh-hm. Especially when people are reporting about the speed with which the plane descended. And obviously there was a true emergency on board. And so what -- obviously, Prince had some hip issues. There was some reports that he had had a hip replacement. He often had a cane out on stage with him which many of us believed was a prop, you know, to dance with. But it may have been something more than that. I mean, does that what you are hearing that perhaps he had a -- this was due to hip pain?
LEVIN: We are told that around 2010 he had hip surgery. I mean, it really was not well known that this happened but he had hip surgery. And before the hip surgery he was in a lot of pain and he was on pain killers. What I cannot tell you is whether he continued taking that pain medication and whether it was Percocet after the hip surgery, whether he became addict to do it, whether he stopped and then started again. But I do know that based on all the sources we have in Moline, that this was Percocet and, Megyn, we talked a little bit about this yesterday.
We got this picture of Prince at a Walgreen's hours before he died at 7:30 at night on Wednesday. And we're told by witnesses there that he was agitated. He was pacing in the parking lot and this was his fourth trip in almost as many days to that Walgreen for prescriptions. So, again, these are building blocks that the authorities are using in Minnesota to try and figure out what happened to Prince and whether this did, indeed, involve drugs. They have done a toxicology on him. It will take two weeks for the results to come back.
KELLY: And the family will be in charge of what happens with Prince's body. Do you have any information on what happens next there, Harvey?
LEVIN: We are told that the body has been released to Prince's next of kin. And they are planning a private ceremony that will be followed by some kind of public memorial.
KELLY: It's been incredible to see the outpouring of love and support for him tonight. Harvey, thank you so much. Great to see you as always.
LEVIN: Okay, Megyn.
KELLY: This story has gotten so much attention. TMZ was telling us that in just 48 hours the Prince story has already generated more views for their website then all of the Michael Jackson coverage almost seven years ago. Think about that. Just gives you some feel for the importance of this man and this figure in America. During today's news conference there were a number of questions about the TMZ reporting on drug use. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is there any sign of a drug or prescription drug overdose?
MARTHA WEAVER, MIDWEST MED EXAMINERS SPOKESWOMAN: That answer is pending. And it will take days and weeks to complete those particular investigations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Joining me now is Mark Fuhrman, who is a Fox News contributor, former L.A.P.D. detective and Dr. Michael Baden, world renowned forensic pathologist.
Good to see you both. So, Mark, let me start with you. They are going to know a lot faster than a couple of weeks, are they not?
MARK FUHRMAN, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: I would suspect that they might have already done preliminary toxicology. I mean, you go to a hospital and you can get them in 15, 20 minutes. And I'm sure Dr. Baden will confirm a couple days on the outside, they will know. But they will also know by the condition of the body and the lack of any trauma to any organs or any circulatory problems. And they might see a depressed respiratory system which would be an overdose of opiate or opioid like Percocet.
KELLY: Uh-hm. Doctor Biden, do you think that they know now based on something they did this morning, the autopsy?
DR. MICHAEL BADEN, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Yes. I think Mark is right is that the toxicology they should know within a few days. But right now, today this morning's autopsy, they know whether there is any heart disease, any pneumonia, any blood clot emboli, any head injury. They know whether or not whether it's present or not just on based on the autopsy. And they could -- if they found nothing unusual, they can rule out natural diseases.
KELLY: Uh-hm.
BADEN: Almost completely at this stage. And they are waiting for the toxicology. And as Harvey Levin has found out so far. The issue of Percocet is a real issue because it's a narcotic drug test like morphine or just like heroin, similar effects. It's legal to be prescribed by physician. You are going to want to know which physician has been prescribing it. And it doesn't go away by itself.
KELLY: Yes. But when --
BADEN: If the handlers had kept him in the hospital, he wouldn't have died when he did.
KELLY: -- when he left of the hospital against medical advice.
BADEN: Right.
KELLY: But Mark, you know, listen, I don't have a lot of experience with pain medication but I did give birth to three children. And I know that when they offer you Percocet it's very regulated. It's like you can have, you know, they don't just give you refills on that. So, the police are definitely going to be talking to his doctor.
FUHRMAN: Right. Well, you know, Megyn, when you are talking about Percocet. You are talking about a prescription drug that's as strong as heroin. But you know exactly because the milligram of the tablet exactly what it's going to do. So you can actually increase the effects of the drug proportionally. Now, when doctors prescribe this, they don't prescribe it 120 tablets or 200 tablets.
KELLY: Right.
FUHRMAN: They prescribe it according to the level of pain and the level and the amount of pain for the amount of days. So, if Prince has got an ongoing supply without a prescription in his own name, somebody is providing it for him that is close to him.
KELLY: Uh-hm. Dr. Baden, what would you see if this was a Percocet overdose, what would there be, anything in the body other than the toxicology report to tell that you?
BADEN: Well, you would have a lot of fluid in the lungs. Usually when one dies from overdoses of narcotic drugs, the lungs fill up with fluid. And this take as few hours. You don't die instantaneously with narcotic drugs. The brain is affected so you slowly, you stop breathing. And that takes place over a few hours. During which time the lungs fill with fluid. And they know at this point whether or not the lungs filled with fluid.
KELLY: Uh-hm. And there is going to be a long trail Mark, if this -- if people were supplying him drugs or prescriptions that were -- that he shouldn't have had, there is going to be a trail. There will be text messages. There will be something for the cops to find.
FUHRMAN: Well, there will be text messages. There will be conversations. There will be witnesses that don't want to get arrested and really don't want to be on the wrong side of this. But, there is a misplaced loyalty when you have celebrity and money that somehow you are protecting somebody like Prince by getting these drugs because he wants them. But, really, they are harming him and ultimately killed him. It's going to be fairly obvious when you see prescriptions for Percocet surrounding the people that are close to Prince.
KELLY: Uh-hm. And abuse of prescription drugs is rampant in this country. It's just rampant. And people start for reasons that are completely legitimate so oven and it winds up spiraling out of control. We don't know if that's what happened here. We only know what TMZ is reporting. Harvey Levin has a reputation for getting it right. Did he in this case? The doctors. The officials will tell us.
Good to see you both, guys.
BADEN: Good to see you, Megyn.
KELLY: Well, the passing of Prince is impacting for more than just his fans. Up next, the questions about what happens with his half billion- dollar estate.
Plus, we will speak with the man who helped Prince make this song a mega hit.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
KELLY: Guitarist Dez Dickerson is here.
And then stunning new polls tonight from Indiana and California. The two states that could decide the G.O.P. nomination. Chris Stirewalt is here with us to break them down and then a disturbing story, please, please stay tuned. I said what does this guy know about this? I could have interviewed this guy for four hours. It's a college honor student who was kicked out of school for having consensual sex with another student. She doesn't -- she says I was not raped. He says, I did not rape her. And, yet, some friend says it was rape. And now this man, who has been kicked out of school, is suing the Obama administration and we will show you how Grant Neil's (ph) case could affect colleges and young men across the country.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KELLY: Nielsen statistics suggest that the Prince Song you just heard "Little Red Corvette" has been listen to do by more than three billion people since the time it was created. And there has been a nonstop stream of those fans gathering at Prince's Paisley Park studios since his death.
In moments, we will be joined by Dez Dickerson, Prince's first guitarist and a man who helped create that very song. But first we go to Mike Tobin in Chanhassen, Minnesota with the latest from the scene. Mike.
MIKE TOBIN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: And Megyn, we are looking at his estate now. You see far of it behind me here. Of the estimated value of it is $300 million and includes some real estate. What we know of the Paisley Park studio here. Estimated at $7.1 million. He got a plot of land here in Chanhassen, the estimated value of that is $16.43 million. And he owns his childhood home the estimated value of that is only $87,000. Then you start looking at the music licenses. Prince kept tight control over the license of his music. Someone gets the value of that.
The music vault here at Paisley Park said to hold some 20,000 unreleased tracks. There may be some new Prince Music that we will hear. But someone will get control of that. And that memoir people were talking about. Prince completed some 50 pages of the memoir. Someone will get control of that. The question is who. Prince as you know was very private about his affairs. So, we don't know the extent of his estate planning, if he planned anything at all. Prince does have one sister. He has got two half-sisters and a half-brother. He was married twice so he has two ex- wives.
He had only one son who survived only briefly after childbirth. So, a big question about what will happen with Prince's estate now that he is gone. The mood here at Paisley Park has been rather pleasant throughout the day. I will tell you one kind of happy note story here. There was though some commotion by the back gate and the staff came out producing boxes and boxes of pizza which they handed out to the fans and mourners here at Paisley Park -- Megyn.
KELLY: Hmm. Mike, thank you. Well, more than 30 years ago, an aspiring young musician saw an advertisement for a guitar player. In an ad that would lead to an amazing creative partnership between that guitarist Dez Dickerson and the person who placed that ad the musical genius we came to know as Prince. Before long the world saw the two of them in this video
right here.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
KELLY: Joining me now is Dez Dickerson. He was Prince's first guitarist and partner with him in some of his biggest hits. Dez, thank you so much for being here.
DEZ DICKERSON, FRIEND OF PRINCE: Thank you.
KELLY: So, you saw an ad in the paper that said that there was a Warner Brothers recording artist seeking guitarist and keyboardist. You showed up in parking lot. It was 17-year-old by the name of Prince. Then what happened?
DICKERSON: Well, essentially, I was on my way out of town playing in my, you know, umpteenth faceless local band to play a show in, you know, East Crevice Iowa somewhere. And the entourage was a little late getting, so I asked if I could go up first. I auditioned for about 15 minutes. Prince and I went back out in the parking lot and had a brief conversation. And he called me the next week, and the week after, and the week after. And ultimately one day his manager greeted me in the kitchen with a check and I knew I had a job.
KELLY: How long after that point were you answering his ad in the paper? Did the two of you co-write "Little Red Corvette?"
DICKERSON: Well, we didn't actually co-write Corvette but we collaborated musically as members of the band for a number of years. We spent many, many, many hours jamming in rehearsals and sort of, you know, exchanging musical ideas and the like. So what did he was make available the opportunity to play on some of the later records like "Little Red Corvette" like "1999." So, on "Little Red Corvette" I had the opportunity to play the guitar solo and do the background vocals and share the lead vocals in 1999.
KELLY: When you were making that music, which now, we all know so well that you were first exposed to before any of us, did you know it was special?
DICKERSON: You know, you knew that Prince was special. And you knew that there was something about his approach to music that wasn't someone just writing songs. But it was someone who embodied the music in some way that was just amplifying it and sharing it with the rest of the world.
KELLY: He was a perfectionist.
DICKERSON: Absolutely he was a perfectionist. And so were the rest of us.
KELLY: Did he hold everyone else around him to that standard?
DICKERSON: He had a knack for picking people who innately wanted that anyway and then he definitely upheld a very high standard and relentlessly pursued perfection.
KELLY: He wanted more than to be great. He wanted to be historic, you said.
DICKERSON: Yes, he wanted to be singular. He want to do change things. And he did. He absolutely did.
KELLY: What do you think his legacy will be, Dez?
DICKERSON: Ultimately, I mean, we have had lots of pop icons and rock stars. I mean, you can go back to Sinatra and Elvis and the Beetles and on and on and on. But I don't think we will ever have another pop culture icon like Prince in that as a musician, as a visionary, as someone who had a passion and a drive that was unparalleled, I don't know that we will ever see the likes like him again.
KELLY: He gave us some beautiful music along his side. And we are grateful for your time tonight. Thank you, sir.
DICKERSON: Thank you, my pleasure.
KELLY: Wow! Remember that? Remember those videos, seeing those two guys together just how electric that music was. And it was a sound unlike any we had heard. Uhm, we will have more as we learn more about the tragic death of Prince and the causes behind it later. Also tonight, we have the story of two college students who had consensual sex. A third student who decided it was really rape. And a campus system of so-called justice that kicked that young man with a 3.67 GPA out of school despite the fact that there is zero evidence of any crime.
Plus, Donald Trump's campaign making some waves in a closed door meeting at the RNC's event in Florida. Our own Chris Stirewalt was at that G.O.P. event and he has the inside details. Look, you can see, juicy.
And TMZ telling us that they may have some new reporting tonight with what happened with Prince in the days before he was found dead. If that happens, we're going to bring it to you. We are talking to Harvey. Stay tuned.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KELLY: Breaking tonight, brand new Fox News polls out of two major states that could make or break the Republican nomination. First up, Indiana. The May 3rd primary for 57 delegates and Mr. Trump is ahead by eight points in that state. Then, the all-important state of California, representing 172 delegates on the final day of primary voting, June 7th. The Republican frontrunner now ahead of Ted Cruz in the Golden State by 27 points. Both polls come at the same time as headlines were claiming that Trump has been, quote, "Playing a part" after top Trump aide Paul Manafort says as much as that at a closed door meeting with G.O.P. insiders yesterday. Here is what he actually said. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL MANAFORT, DONALD TRUMP'S SENIOR CAMPAIGN ADVISER: When he is sitting in a room and he's talking business and he is talking politics in a private room. It's a different persona. When he is out on the stage, when he is talking about the kinds of things he's talking about on the stump, he is projecting an image that's for that purposes. He gets it. The party that he's been playing is evolving into the part that now you've been expecting, but he wasn't ready for because he had first to complete the first phase.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Our own Chris Stirewalt just got back from the RNC meetings in Florida. So what's the story? So, Manafort basically goes into the party elders and -- you know, and says he is going to stop that stuff.
Like he needed to take out 17 guys, so he had to be, you know, some elbows. But now, is that the message?
CHRIS STIREWALT, FOX NEWS DIGITAL POLITICS EDITOR: Well, that is the message. And they showed desperately want to believe it's true. These Republicans are desperate, desperate for the primary season to be over or the Republican --
KELLY: Aren't we all? Really? Like a never ending primary?
STIREWALT: Right, exactly. It is the self-licking ice cream cone. The Republican leadership wants this sucker done. They want this to be over and for good. And as they are sitting around by the seafood tower and the cash, the open bar, they think, you know what? I want to believe it's true. I want to believe what Paul Manafort is telling me that Trump was faking it with these folks before. He was putting on an act to get the primary votes he needs. But the whole time he has been the sober sided core of sensibility and moderation and that he will now be that person. Whether or not that's true, I don't know, but that's what those people want to believe.
KELLY: Uh-hm. And so, that could be very good for Donald Trump if they do believe it.
STIREWALT: Oh yes.
KELLY: But I want to talk to you about these polls and you tell me whether these are -- obviously California looks very good for him. Right? Twenty seven points lead over Ted Cruz? Why are you making that face? Put that in perspective for us.
STIREWALT: The perspective of the subtitle on that face is California -- yes, if Trump does 50 percent or more in California and he slams the door there, he probably will have already slammed it before that. The challenge from California, of course, this is district by district by district by district by district.
KELLY: Uh-hm. So you are basically looking at that as a 50/50, you know, Trump and the non-Trump and he has got --
STIREWALT: Right.
KELLY: -- to get more like 70 or 30 or something.
STIREWALT: Exactly.
KELLY: What about Indiana with an eight point lead?
STIREWALT: Lordy day. So here's the deal. If Ted Cruz gets beat in Indiana, turn out the lights, the party's over. Because what's going to happen is Donald Trump is going to have a very good Tuesday. How good? We'll see. John Kasich, if he is serious about doing something other than helping Donald Trump be the nominee, he needs to show up on Tuesday and win something or get close or deprive Trump of some delegates.
If all he is doing is sitting around and helping Donald Trump win in Indiana, I don't think the people who are supporting him out of a desire to see him as the actual nominee are going to be very happy with him. But let's say Trump has a great Tuesday, he rolls out to Indiana, which is thereafter and beats Ted Cruz, there's nothing more to say. It doesn't matter what the delegate count is the momentum starts to build. And as the party leadership starts to suck up to Trump, poof.
KELLY: We'll let that be the closing line. Great to see you.
[Laughter]
STIREWALT: Poof.
KELLY: Happy Friday. Joining me now with more, Rich Lowry, Fox News contributor and editor at National Review and David Wohl, attorney and Trump supporter, good to see you both. Rich, let me start with that. Is the Never Trump movement softening as a result of these efforts?
RICH LOWRY, FOX NEWS CONTRBUTOR: I don't think so. But, Trump clearly has momentum. Everyone expected him to win New York but he blew the roof off the place and he is going to have another banner Tuesday and then the question is Indiana. It's the truest battleground state we're going to have in a while. The question is whether it will be the new Wisconsin. Is it the state that Cruz can use to stop Trump's momentum to blunt his march toward 1,237?
KELLY: But the events before Wisconsin were very different than the events right now. Before Wisconsin, he was doing the Heidi Cruz tweet and a bunch of stuff. And he has been very sort of quiet and controlled in advance of this Indiana and the primary.
LOWRY: Yeah, in the context of Donald Trump, he has been quiet and controlled. He is still loosely talking of violence at the convention and accusing the party he wants to lead of being corrupt, but is not making as many forced or unforced errors. And, you know, 8 point lead for Donald Trump, Ted Cruz has work to do in Indiana. It's not clear whether he can replicate what he did in Wisconsin. He had a lot of help from Scott Wlker. Is Mike Pence, the governor of Indiana, going to step up for Ted Cruz the way Scott Walker did in Wisconsin? Very unclear.
KELLY: And did they have the kind of talk radio unified against Trump...
LOWRY: Right.
KELLY: ...in Indiana that they did in Wisconsin and, you know, they just seemed like a more organized like state, but...
LOWRY: Everything was clicking there for Cruz.
KELLY: And the question is whether Indiana is going to be more like Wisconsin or Indiana is going to be more like Missouri where Trump won geographically. We'll find out. David, what about the part that he's been playing is evolving statement by Manafort, which people were saying, you know, was it all an act? What does that communicate to us?
DAVID WOHL, ATTORNEY AND TRUMP SUPPORTER: No, I mean look, he's got a consultant helping his campaign evolve. Breaking news, Megyn, that happens in every single campaign so, that's nothing new. I think the big issue that sort of threw some people which is about wanting to change the GOP platform to allowing exceptions to abortion, for rape, incest and the life of the mother.
And Megyn, I got to tell you something, that's evolving. That's going to help his vote with the women and that's something -- if you don't buy into that, Megyn, that's not -- saying that a woman could be raped and not having any control over the resulting pregnancy, that's not conservatism, Megyn, that's extremism. And that's the platform that Ted Cruz has adopted and to his detriment.
So, right now Donald Trump is picking up I think on the more moderate wing of the Republican Party and taking that in. Look, he won 90 delegates in New York, 89 are predicted. Also, that boosted his momentum. He is coming into California with a very similar lead and I believe he'll get 150 delegates or more.
KELLY: Wow.
WOHL: It will take him over the 1,237 and there will be nothing else to do there.
KELLY: And you're in California so you may know these people. Let me ask you about that abortion comment because that is a platform of the party that he's, you know, rejecting. But Trump has appealed to more moderate Republicans from the start. He hasn't really done that well in all the states, at least with the very conservative. In fact, right now in Indiana he is polling not well with the very conservative. Cruz is getting those. So, does that statement move the needle for him?
LOWRY: I don't know whether...
WOHL: Go ahead, rich.
LOWRY: Sorry, I don't know how much it moves the needle. The ideological aspect of Trump has always been very interesting. There is this image of him as this outrageous right winger because the way he presents himself, his affect, how offensive he has been to certain groups and how controversial.
They looked at his ideological support, it really runs across the spectrum both among very conservative, somewhat conservative, and moderates. And this is why he has been able to -- with a couple of exceptions -- clean up in the south, and also clean up in the northeast, which is just an extraordinary coalition.
KELLY: And now we will see what happens in the Midwest. Quickly David, got to run.
WOHL: Bottom line is, if Cruz has to win 100% of the remaining delegates plus 4 to get the 1,237...
KELLY: He can't do it...
(CROOSTALK)
WOHL: People on the fence with him now, I think they're going to go for Trump and his lead is only going to build.
LOWRY: Cruz isn't getting there, the question is whether he can hold Trump below -- keep him 75 or 100 short because those delegates on the floor in Cleveland are going to be a Trump, sorry, a Cruz crowd.
KELLY: Cruz is not trying to win. He is trying to stop Trump from winning.
Good to see you both.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: All right, also tonight, there is a new twist in the dramatic showdown that has turned a talk show into a soap opera of sorts. Up next in just a bit, Kelly Ripa and Michael Strahan and the fight that has become one of the top stories in the country. Plus, some stunning audiotape from the case of two college students who had consensual sex. A third student who decided no, it was rape, and a College that chose to ignore the evidence and kick the young man out of school on mandate from the Obama administration.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I hope you know I don't think you did any of that, right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I maybe acting like the typical girl that just got raped, but I hope you know that I don't think i did.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KELLY: Tonight, we have the story of two college students who had consensual sex. A third student who decided it was really a case of rape. And a campus system of so-called justice that kicked the young man out of school despite the fact that there is no evidence of any crime. In moments, you will hear from that accused student directly, Grant Neal is his name in a Kelly file exclusive. But first, Trace Gallagher is in our west coast newsroom with the story. Trace?
TRACE GALLAGHER, CFOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, at the time, Grant Neal he was a sophomore at Colorado State who played football and wrestled. The alleged victim was a female trainer for the football team who Neal was dating. According to the university's internal investigation, the woman claims she and Grant Neal were in bed and that because she was not on birth control she told him she did not want to have unprotected sex, but he started to anyway.
She says when she told him to stop, he did and asked if it would be okay if he used a condom. She said yes so, they had sex in her bed and later that night, apparently had sex again at his home. The next day a friend of the woman spotted a hickey on her neck and when she learned her friend had sex with a football player, she somehow concluded it was rape, reported it to the university, and a full scale Title IX investigation began.
The alleged victim made it clear she wasn't a victim, telling investigators, quoting, "He's a good guy. He is not a rapist. He is not a criminal." And when Grant Neal recorded a conversation with the woman, here's what she told him, listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I hope you know I don't think you did any of that, right.
GRANT NEAL, ACCUSED OF SEXUAL MISCONDUCT AT SCHOOL: Yeah.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I maybe acting like the typical girl that just got raped, but I hope you know that I don't think i did.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GALAGHER: Clearly her voice was disguised but the investigation found there was sexual misconduct on the part of Grant Neal for the moment when he didn't have a condom on. He was suspended until after the woman graduates. Now, he is suing the university and the Department of Education's Office of Civil Rights or OCR claiming the guidance the OCR has issued to colleges and university discriminates against young men and denies them due process. Megyn?
KELLY: Trace, thank you. Joining me now, Grant Neal and his attorney, Andrew Miltenberg. Thank you both so much for being here. I'm going to start with the lawyer on this Grant so, just stand by for one second. Andrew, we have been covering this repeatedly and what has happened in these cases from college campus to college campus is the administration has set up young college men to have the book thrown at them and basically to be convicted without a lawyer and under a standard that no court would accept. Isn't that true, Andrew?
ANDREW MILTENBERG, ATTORNEY: That's absolutely true. And, in fact, what is unfortunately happening is the Obama administration has laid a very heavy hand on the disciplinary process in colleges such that it's virtually assured that an allegation will turn into a finding of responsibility and expulsion.
KELLY: So this, just so the viewers understand, we're talking about the administration which has stuck its nose into college campuses in a way unprecedented. They wanted to help rape victims, which is a laudable cause, but in doing so, they have eliminated due process for any accused man on college campus which brings us to you, Grant, and this ridiculous situation where for a couple of moments which you then rectified with the woman with whom you were having consensual intercourse. You have been deemed a sexual predator, who was suspended from the university and now you cannot go to another university because of this label.
NEAL: Exactly and Kelly, that really is honestly difficult to hear. I have been having to deal with this for so long and it's just really, a really hard thing to do when all the rights that you are given as a natural born citizen of the United States and that's constitutional due process, I didn't even have that so, that was extremely difficult to handle.
KELLY: Did you go to the young woman and say "your friend is saying I raped you." What is that based on?
NEAL: Actually, the young woman contacted me and she told me that her friend is saying this. And, obviously, as a young college student, I'm caught off guard and I'm like well, did you tell her that that wasn't the case? And the young woman did indeed tell me that she informed this young lady that that wasn't the case. But because this young lady had her preconceived notions about football players and how they act on campus without meeting me or knowing me, she was able to make that assumption that, hey, you took advantage of my friend.
KELLY: So, and this woman -- this woman of whom you allegedly took advantage, you had consensual sex on October 25th and then, again, not long thereafter on October 26th, she -- there was another -- October 27th, she came to your home. Your roommates were gone and again you engaged in consensual sex. We heard her on that tape. When what does she mean in that tape when she says, you know I'm sort of acting this way. Did she purport to be a victim in other conversations?
NEAL: No. She was referring to the point to where all these other students and faculty members involved who were blowing this thing kind of up, she was saying that because she is so upset about the situation and about how I was being treated in the situation and how she feels also victimized in this situation. She is saying that because of her reaction people were telling her that, hey, I feel -- did I think that I was assaulted and she said...
KELLY: So, they are telling her she is a victim and she is saying I'm not. Andrew, the only person who apparently thinks that there is a victim at all in this case is the friend. And based on that, what the friend says, the two parties involved have no problem with what happened between them. How does it get to be that a university suspends an athlete with a 3.67 GPA without even a pretense of due process?
MILTENBERG: Well, and that's what makes this so compelling. We have a nonparty, non-witness who manages to have an entire university railroad one of the most promising young men that any of us have met in a long time, without any due process all based on something that we would find utterly offensive were to happen in our court system and the reality is that Grant Neal's life has been derailed because the Obama administration has forced universities and colleges across this country to rush to judgment against young men.
KELLY: We've seen this happen repeatedly at many universities but now you are trying to do something about it, filing a lawsuit against the Department of Education saying this has got to stop. We want to support the rights of victims on college campuses, absolutely. But there -- not everyone who makes an accusation is, in fact, the victim. And in those cases, it is the accused who becomes the victim as we saw in the Duke rape case. So, my question to you is what are your odds -- what are your odds of reversing this policy or getting the Department of Education to listen?
MILTENBERG: I think it takes a situation as dramatic as Grant's to have the people of this country and the Department of Education sit up and say, yes, we want to be proactive about sexual assault, but we can't do it at the cost of due process.
KELLY: Thank you, gentlemen. We'll continue to follow it.
MLTENBERG: Thank you for having us.
KELLY: Right? Let me know your thoughts. Facebook.com/the Kelly file and on twitter @ Megyn Kelly. Well, daytime TV had its fill of drama this week. A little drama when the work couple, Michael Strahan and Kelly Ripa had a very public breakup and boy did it get bad. Janice Dean is here on that.
Plus, her awesome new book. Check this out. That's our crew, my staff. Get back to work.
(Laughter)
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KELLY: And now to a TV host break up ripped from the headlines. On one side Michael Strahan who is leaving "Live with Kelly and Michael" for "GMA." On the other side, Kelly Ripa who is said to be so upset and blindsided by this news that she has not shown up for work since. Janice Dean is a Fox News Meteorologist and author of the new book, "Freddy the Frogcaster and the Terrible Tornado." We're going to get to Freddy in one second. We're going to start with Kelly and Michael. So, what happened?
JANICE DEAN, FOX NEWS METEOROLOGIST: Well apparently, she got off work on Tuesday and they brought her in and said surprise, Michael Strahan is going to be going over to "GMA" and you were going to have to find you a new co- host.
KELLY: But he wasn't going to go until September and he's been doing that twice a week for a couple of years.
DEAN: Right.
KELLY: Was it the way in which, like she wanted a bigger heads up?
DEAN: Well, yeah, apparently she only got 30 minutes before the public knew this. So, her big beef is you've got to take me aside. I've been doing this show. This is my show. Shouldn't you have told me first? And instead she felt like she was blindsided. You know, at first, I think we all read this and went, ahh. And now that it's sort of dragged on and she's not showing up for work. It's a he said, she said. Apparently they don't get along. He's going to GMA or it's something that she wants -- reports, exactly.
Some say that she was supposed to get that job of going over to "GMA" twice a week but she didn't want to do it. So, there is this -- listen, I love everybody involved. I love Kelly Ripa. I love Michael Strahan. I love "GMA." But the problem is now it's like a soap opera, what she used to do before "Kelly and Michael."
KELLY: She's perfectly cast for this and she knows what to do.
DEAN: Right, so here's my thing. I think because I have -- how we can resolve this. Are you ready? I think that Kelly Ripa on Monday should go to work and they show her waking up in the morning and she goes into work and on the set is Regis and it was all a dream and Michael was never there. And it would solve everything. You're welcome GMA. What do you think?
KELLY: I want to talk about Freddy. Let's leave it at that. Let's talk about Freddy instead. There's another Freddy edition. Freddy is hot. He is hot by the way. My kids love this book and they had the privilege of having Janice read this to them directly. What is the value of the tornado story?
DEAN: Well, listen, tornadoes are very scary, but there's ways that we can prepare our kids by talking to them beforehand. I think as parents, we get into an event, like as if your weather event. If you live in tornado alley, they have, you know, drills like fire drills and tornado drills. If you can explain to kids why things happen with Freddy, it will take the scare out of a weather situation.
KELLY: It's a tool that you can use with them. We're going to hold Janice over, we've got a few seconds on the opposite side and wait until you see what she has.
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KELLY: There's a Freddy weather app. Go to iTunes on Monday. It's not ready yet and look, you're going to get Freddy the Frogcaster.
DEAN: You can get you weather forecast and all sorts of fun games. You get the Frogcaster and weather station, also, guess who made People's Most Beautiful.
KELLY: Jennifer Aniston.
END
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