President of the Broward Sheriff's Office Deputies Association calls for removal of Sheriff Scott Israel

This is a rush transcript from "Special Report," January 9, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, HOST: I just slow down (INAUDIBLE). Bret, thank you very much. All right. So, if you believe that it is important to have a secure border. That one senseless murder of an American citizen by someone who's here illegally is one too many. Or that if opioids and heroin crossing into the United States even at our ports of entry is a problem, or if you think that members of the El Salvadoran gang MS-13 who cut the throats of their victims as a rite of passage are terrorists, almost a thousand of them were arrested here last year.

Then, many in the media and on Capitol Hill will tell you that you are falling for a manufactured crisis.


SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER, D-N.Y., SENATE MINORITY LEADER: This president just used the backdrop of the Oval Office to manufacture a crisis.

REP. NANCY PELOSI, D-CALIF., SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: President Trump must stop holding American people hostage. Must stop manufacturing a crisis.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What the president is doing is manufacturing a crisis.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, this is a manufactured crisis, Bill.


MACCALLUM: You get the idea. But for the family of California police officer, Corporal Ronil Singh, it is quite real.


REGGIE SINGH, BROTHER OF SLAIN POLICE OFFICER: Ronil Singh was my older brother. Yes, he's not coming back. But there's a lot of people out there that misses him. And a lot of law enforcement people that I don't know that work days and nights to make this happen. I'd like to thank you from the bottom of my heart to make this happen.


MACCALLUM: Reggie Singh will join me in moments. But first, Trace Gallagher with this backstory tonight. Trace.

TRACE GALLAGHER, CORRESPONDENT: Martha, it was 1:00 in the morning. One hour after Christmas was officially over that Newman police officer Ronil "Ron" Singh, stopped 33-year-old Gustavo Perez Arriaga on suspicion of driving under the influence. Seconds later, Officer Singh called shot fired over the police radio. Minutes later, his colleagues found him mortally wounded.

Arriaga, an illegal immigrant, and known gang member was on the run for two days before being captured as he tried to flee back to Mexico. Seven other suspects were arrested for helping him evade capture. Six of them were also in the U.S. illegally.

But Perez Arriaga had been arrested for drunk driving in 2011. And again, in 2014. But under California's sanctuary policies, immigration and customs enforcement were not notified of those arrests, and Arriaga stayed in the U.S.

Several California sheriffs blamed the state's sanctuary law for officer Singh's death. But former California Governor Jerry Brown is pushing back, saying the law did not take effect until 2018. What Brown fails to mention is that in 2013, he also signed the Trust Act, a precursor to the sanctuary law which also prevented local law enforcement from cooperating with immigration agents.

And as far back as 2012, then-California Attorney General and potential 2020 presidential candidate Kamala Harris sent a letter to police agencies saying in part, "Several local law enforcement agencies appear to treat immigration detainers, sometimes called, ICE holds, as mandatory orders. But immigration detainers are not compulsory. Instead, they are merely requests."

Bottom line, California Counties have been ignoring ICE detainers for years. Also, it's unclear if Perez Arriaga will face the death penalty. Martha.

MACCALLUM: Trace, thank you very much. And here is the president last night.


PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: America's heart broke the day after Christmas when a young police officer in California was savagely murdered in cold blood by an illegal alien. It just came across the border. The life of an American hero was stolen by someone who had no right to be in our country.

Imagine if it was your child, your husband, or your wife, whose life was so cruelly shattered and totally broken.


MACCALLUM: Corporal Ronil Singh's brother, Reggie, joins me now. Reggie, good to have you with us today. When you heard the president talk about your family, about your brother last night, what was that like for you?

SINGH: It felt good that -- you know, something's being done. Ronil is not coming back, but if we could do something about it and save other lives, law enforcement, any family, you know, we definitely don't want any other family to go through what we are going through right now.

So, President Trump is addressing the issue and I just hope that it will be taken care of.

MACCALLUM: I want to play a little bit from the day on December the 28th, your brother was killed by someone who was here illegally, and who had two DUI arrests and was purported to be a member of a gang. He is the alleged killer, I should say at this stage of the process. This is part of that news conference. Let's play that.


SINGH: I wish I could thank all the law enforcement agencies, homeland security in San Francisco, everyone. If I can speak to you. I was waiting for this to happen. I'd like to thank you working day and night to make this happen.


MACCALLUM: Tell me a little bit about that moment for you, Reggie.

SINGH: You know, Ronil looking down, I know all he wanted was justice. And you know suspect has been apprehended. And you know, people work a lot of law enforcement, you know, they work days and nights to make that happen. You know, it was -- it was heartbreaking. You know, Ronil is not coming back. But, you know, when the suspect was apprehended, you know, it felt good. It felt good, you know. Yes.

MACCALLUM: I want to play a little bit of the Stanislaus County Sheriff Adam Christianson at that news conference talking about the alleged killer. Watch this.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Had he been deported, this wouldn't have happened?

ADAM CHRISTIANSON, SHERIFF, STANISLAUS COUNTY, CALIFORNIA: Potentially, if he wasn't here, then he wouldn't have been driving drunk and it wouldn't have been reported to Officer Singh, and the encounter to stop, the enforcement stop. Potentially, never would have occurred.

My point is, why are we providing sanctuary for criminals, gang members? It's a conversation we need to have.


MACCALLUM: I think so hard to watch, Reggie. Obviously, it's been such a difficult, difficult time for you and your family. Tell me your family came here. Tell me how your family came here, and how you felt when you realize that the person who is responsible did not go through the same process?

SINGH: So, my family -- we migrated in 2003. We got sponsored and we did everything legally. We came here, we were green card holders, and after five years, my brother -- in my brother's case, he was asked to get his citizenship in order to become a -- to be part of law enforcement. And he got his citizenship and I was able to get my citizenship also. And we were -- we are now American -- a law-abiding American citizenship holders.

And the day I found out that the suspect was illegal immigrant and had prior DUIs -- two DUIs, my question was that why we did not react the first time he had a DUI if he's an illegal immigrant?

And I feel like that we shouldn't be giving people second chance. Illegal immigrants, we shouldn't be giving a second chance to them if he would have been deported, my brother would be alive right now. I would not be doing this interview.

What I truly feel about this is, you know, if we make our immigration laws stricter, if we take action and not allow an illegal immigrant to get second chance, I think that you know, we could minimize the crime rate we are having.

MACCALLUM: You know -- I know, you're the -- he was just recently became a K-9 officer, and I understand that the dog that he worked with, he was very close to that dog is going to be given to the -- to the family, his wife and his young child, I assume. You know, talk to me a little bit about them. How they are doing, give everybody a sense of all that.

SINGH: So, Sam, Sam is not doing well. He's locked in Ronil's bedroom. He is laying on his bed. He knows that Ron is no longer with the family.

MACCALLUM: This is the dog.

SINGH: And his sad, he's not active. This is the dog. Sam is the K-9 dog and Sam is not active anymore. And at this moment, he is protecting the -- my sister-in-law, the wife, and the baby. Because Sam feels like that he needs to step up and protect the family now. So, if anyone -- if my uncle my uncle -- my uncle or aunt tries to play with the baby, Sam does not like it.

Sam feels like that, you know, Ron's not here, I got to protect the family now because Sam is fully aware that Ron's not here. And our morning, you know, starts with crying. I spent the night at my brother's house, I woke up and yesterday my sister-in-law was crying. I go to my House, my parents is crying and it's just -- it's just every morning our day starts with crying.

MACCALLUM: That is -- that's, that's the grieving process. It doesn't help at all to hear that. Because you wake up and the reality of what happened hits you all over again just in case you forgot it when you were sleeping momentarily.

And we feel for you, and we thank you for your brother's service and we pray for your family. And we want everyone to know that there are a number of charities, there's a GoFundMe page, and tunnel to towers' is also helping with some of your expenses.

So, Reggie, thank you very much for being here today.

SINGH: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: And please know that our thoughts and our prayers are with you and with your family.

SINGH: Thank you so much.

MACCALLUM: So, we are about to enter day 20 now of this government shutdown. And today, at the White House, President Trump said, bye-bye as he walked out of the meeting with Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer calling the meeting a "total waste of his time." Sean Spicer is up next.


VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: The president walked into the room passed out candy. It's true.



MACCALLUM: A lot of meetings today on this. President Trump met this afternoon with Speaker Pelosi and Senator Chuck Schumer to try and put together a deal to reopen the parts of the government that are currently shut down about 25 percent of the government and then also secure the border and find some agreement on that. But here's how it ended.


SCHUMER: Unfortunately, the President just got up and walked down.

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY, R-CALIF., HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: The President would go back and forth in a negotiation in a very respectful way.

PELOSI: It's cold out here and the temperature wasn't much warmer in the Situation Room.

PENCE: Well, the President walked into the room and passed out candy. It's true.


MACCALLUM: Oh my. So after the meeting, the President tweeted this. "Just left a meeting with Chuck and Nancy, a total waste of time. I asked what is going to happen in 30 days if I quickly open things up, meaning the government? Are you going to approve border security which includes a wall or a steel barrier? Nancy said no, I said, bye-bye. Nothing else works, exclamation point."

Former White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer joins me now. Sean, good to see you tonight. What do you make of what you heard about that meeting this afternoon and what happens next?

SEAN SPICER, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I don't know what happens next. I mean, look, the President laid out a very compelling case last night. The idea that border security, national security, human trafficking, and drugs flowing over our southern border are somehow now political football is wrong. These should be bipartisan issues.

Frankly, it's -- it is political in the sense that in 19 -- excuse me, in 2013, all 54 Senate Democrats voted for $40-plus billion of border security including 700 miles of fencing. This -- the only reason that there's opposition is because it's Donald Trump that's proposing this. You know, one of my predecessors and one of the Fox Contributors Ari Fleischer had a great idea which is Nancy Pelosi and Trump and Schumer should just do this. Give all the money to the Border Patrol and say they get to decide what goes on.

Because the reality is that anybody with a brain will recognize that we need a combination of border wall and fencing along the southern border that we have. That's always been a bipartisan issue. But if we take Trump's name out of it, somehow if we called it the Schumer border security bill, they'd probably pass it. The only reason they're against it is because it's Trump.

MACCALLUM: Yes. But they don't seem to be even in favor of real border security at this point. When you look at you know, the left of their party, Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer sort of represent you know, a kind of language that used to be spoken quite a bit on the part of Democrats that they wanted border security. You know, you're not really even -- you're not hearing that the way that you used to because I think they're getting a lot of pressure from folks who are further left on the spectrum than they are. They can't talk like that anymore.

SPICER: That's right. I mean you know, look, Nancy Pelosi almost didn't become Speaker when there was no one running against her because of the far progressive. She used to be the one that we as Republicans cited as the far left you know, candidate, the far left policymaker. She's now the mainstream of the Democratic Party. And I think that she is continuing to make sure that she keeps her left wing in check. But the reality is that this shouldn't be a political issue. This is something that Democrats have voted for in the past, have been supportive in the past.

MACCALLUM: No, you're absolutely right. It shouldn't. But when you listen to the reaction to this -- to the President's address last night, it was all about you know, all of the lies, all the fact-checking that was required to get through the President's address. The contention that the border crossings have fallen, you know, these are tricky numbers. Because when you look at the number of unaccompanied alien children, that and that number was up 21 percent last year, up 50,000. Family crossings are up 42 percent. So I mean, everybody sort of picks the numbers they like better I guess.

SPICER: But here's the thing that I think is ridiculous when we have a discussion about that, is it only takes one to be a problem. It's not -- I mean, why do we sit back? We have -- we have security in the airports not because there's a ton of people that are looking --

MACCALLUM: That's a good point.

SPICER: You put locks on your door not because you've been broken into a hundred times, because you want to stop that one time, one person coming into this country killing another person illegally is too many. And so we should be doing everything we can. This is not just about a wall. The President is committed to overall border security. But this shouldn't be a discussion. The idea that we're not looking at the officer's family that you just had last week in saying you know, normally when there's a national tragedy, we all gather together and say what can we do as a nation to make sure this never happens again?

MACCALLUM: No. I mean, there's -- there are people who would watch that segment and say it's propaganda. I mean, it's not propaganda. Take that person's life it's what's happening in their family right now. I do want to get you know, the media responses because it's interesting when -- this is -- this is Chris Cuomo and Don Lemon last night. Listen closely to the language here and I want to get sure that your thoughts on it.


CHRIS CUOMO, ANCHOR, CNN: Wanting barriers along the border is not propaganda.

DON LEMON, HOST, CNN: No, no, no.

CUOMO: It's not immoral, it's not wrong.

LEMON: The facts -- the facts about that though, who wants it --

CUOMO: And that's where Donald Trump comes in.

LEMON: How much it actually does protect. Like you said, it's not -- it's not a panacea. It's not a cure-all. There are other aspects --

CUOMO: 100 percent.

LEMON: And other technologies that go along with that.


MACCALLUM: What do you get there?

SPICER: I'm a little shocked. They've made a sort of a cottage industry out of attacking the President. And when they're on board, it recognize -- I think it recognizes the compelling case not just that the President made last night which he did but I think that the overall nature in which this shouldn't be a political issue and this is something that we should all come together.

But when you see folks like that who've been very outspoken and critical of the president recognize how important this issue is to the security of our country to preventing human trafficking, to stopping the flow of illegal drugs, it shouldn't be a question of whether there's 4,000 crossings or 2,000 crossings or ten. The fact of the matter is we should be doing everything we can to protect our people, to protect them whether it's people coming over illegally, protecting them from the flow of drugs, protecting women and children who are being trafficked.

One is too many. We should have to have a discussion about whether it's X thousand or Y thousand. The bottom line is this. This is -- the President has made it very clear that he's going to protect the country and our people. We should be coming together on this. Let's fight it out over tax rates. Let's fight it out over regulation, regulatory reform. This should be something we should be coming together for.

MACCALLUM: I mean, it's interesting to note that Chris Cuomo had been in a closed-door briefing from the President who by all reports was very committed and I guess somewhat persuasive perhaps to some people in that room because hours later that's what you heard from Chris Cuomo over at CNN. So Sean, thank you. Thank you very much.

SPICER: You bet, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Good to see you tonight. So will Democrats return the money that they receive from mega-donor Ed Buck over this latest controversy? One already is in the process of doing that. This after a second man was found dead in his house. Governor Mike Huckabee, up next.


SEYMOUR AMSTER, ATTORNEY FOR ED BUCK: The individual came over had already been partying. Apparently, had already taken some substances.


MACCALLUM: There are brand new developments tonight on a story that we told you about first last night for the second time in less than two years. A black man was found dead at the home of Ed Buck, a prominent Democratic donor who has reportedly given more than $116,000 to candidates and causes. Some of those recipients are now distancing themselves from Buck and redirecting their donations to charities including Kyrsten Sinema among that list.

But tonight, he is still a free man. Some are wondering what role, race, could possibly be playing in this case?


TYSON-LORD GRAY, PROTESTER: This was a black man and there were two white bodies found in his apartment. There is no way that he would not be in the jail right now lawyering up.


MACCALLUM: Here now former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee, a Fox News Contributor as you know well. Governor, good to see you tonight. What's your reaction to this whole situation?

MIKE HUCKABEE, CONTRIBUTOR: I cannot disagree with the protester that you just had on because I think he's right. If these have been two white guys in a black guy's apartment and both of them had died from drug overdoses and the person who owned the apartment was physically there when they died and it happened twice in two years, yes, I think he'd be in jail as a suspect.

You know, he's innocent until proven guilty but by golly, there's some crazy stuff going on that guy's house and there's no way that he can just completely distance himself from that.

MACCALLUM: Yes. And one of the reasons that a lot of people who are looking at this think that it needs to be investigated a bit more. The journal entries that were found in Gemmel Moore who is one of these individuals who died at his house, here's what he said. I've become addicted to drugs and the worst one at that. Ed Buck is the one to thank. He gave me my first injection of crystal meth. It was very painful but after all the troubles, I became addicted.

I mean, I would imagine at the very least they need to ask Mr. Buck some questions, governor.

HUCKABEE: Well, you would really think so. I mean, if a prosecutor read that journal entry and didn't want to bring him in for some serious questioning, and perhaps try to figure out how does a person turn a young 20-something year old into a drug addict and not have some responsibility when the person dies of an overdose. I mean, I just don't understand that.

We asked early on was this about race, I think that's part of it. But I think part of it is this guy is so connected. And let's be clear, I don't blame any of the Democrat politicians for what Ed Buck did. And I think you know, the tendency that maybe guy on my side of the aisle might have is to say oh look at these Democrats. They took money from this sleazebag. But look, people take money from sleazebags all the time.

MACCALLUM: From a lot of sleazebags, right?

HUCKABEE: They always know they're sleazebags. There are sleazebags in both parties. But donors, here's the thing, donors give money to cover themselves and to appear to be something that they're not and big amounts of money can make them seem to be respectable, they get their picture made with celebrities in the political world, and it gives them cover. And I think it's what Ed Buck is was doing all this time.

MACCALLUM: All right, switching gears in a big way here. I just want to talk a little bit about the Supreme Court. There's been a lot of concern obviously about Justice Ginsburg who has now missed three days I believe, of the argument so far and it just raises the question about you know, procedure and it's interesting to note that the Chief Justice William Rehnquist, he missed a significant amount of time on the bench. He missed five months while he was undergoing treatment. So there is a precedent for this for not physically being present as part of this process.

HUCKABEE: Well, absolutely. People get sick. It's part of the way of life. She is 85 years old. She had a fall. She's had surgery. She was diagnosed with cancer. She's had treatment for that.

So, the fact that she takes time off I don't think anybody ought to get all excited about that. People a third of her age would be taken off given all the health issues she has.

I think the one thing that I would point out is that this is not a time for people to start speculating should she retire, does she have to retire. She shouldn't retire until she decides she wants to retire.

And I'm going to be the first and I don't agree with hardly anything she ever opines, but I do respect that she was legally appointed and then confirmed almost unanimously by the Senate back in the 90s when there was a sense of respecting presidents' appointments.

And I think Republicans would do well to say let's hope she gets well. Let's hope she goes out under her own terms and when she's ready to do it, not when someone else is. And let's hope that regardless of who the president picks they would treat that next appointee with the same respect --


HUCKABEE: -- that Republicans treated Ruth Bader Ginsburg back in 19 -- in the 1990s.

MACCALLUM: Very true. Very well put. And there's a reason why it's the only branch that has a lifetime appointment so that it can be free from political persuasion and interaction. So, as you say we wish, we wish her well Ruth Bader Ginsburg as we watch.


MACCALLUM: That's it. That story unfolds. Thank you, sir. Always good to see you, governor. Thanks for being here tonight.

HUCKABEE: Thanks, Martha. You bet.

MACCALLUM: So, his department faced very sharp criticism for the handling of the Parkland school shooting. Now, Sheriff Scott Israel who became known to the nation out of this tragedy may soon be out of a job.

Sheriff's union president Jeff Bell is back with us tonight with reaction to this.


JEFF BELL, PRESIDENT, BROWARD SHERIFF'S OFFICE DEPUTY ASSOCIATION: The actions of a few people (Inaudible) not think the hard-working men and women of the Broward sheriff office and the other law enforcement officers.



MACCALLUM: Tonight, signs pointing to the imminent suspension of Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel over his department's handling of the Parkland school shooting. Seventeen people died on February 14 Valentine's Day in 2018, at the Marjorie Stoneman Douglas School.

Critics say that Israel's team missed warning signs repeatedly and then failed to act quickly on the day of the shooting.

Trace Gallagher has the back story for us from our west coast newsroom. Trace?

TRACE GALLAGHER, CORRESPONDENT: Martha, the Miami Herald and South Florida Sun were both reporting that Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel has told his staff that he expects to be removed from office.

And some parents of students killed at Marjorie Stoneman Douglas School are certainly pushing for his removal. But as of now, Florida's new Governor Ron DeSantis has taken no action against Israel and the sheriff's attorney says they have not been warned about any impending suspension.

Though today on Fox and Friends, Governor DeSantis said that after reading a report on the shooting a decision could be made soon. Watch.


GOV. RON DESANTIS, R-FLA.: It was really troubling to read some of the things that could have been done to prevent one of the most awful tragedies we've had.


GALLAGHER: During the massacre in Parkland, Florida Broward County Sheriff's deputy has reportedly took cover behind cars and trees, even though one deputy radio that he knew where the shooter was. Coral Springs police say they saw deputies taking shelter while they ran inside the school.

And there is a surveillance video and dispatch audio that shows Broward County school resource Deputy Scot Peterson taking shelter despite seeing the shooter in the stairwell. Sheriff Israel later said Deputy Peterson's actions sickened him. Though, during an interview last year with CNN, the sheriff refused to take any responsibility. Look.


SCOTT ISRAEL, SHERIFF, BROWARD COUNTY: Jake, I can only take responsibility for what I knew about. I exercise my due diligence. I've given amazing leadership to this age --


JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Amazing leadership?

ISRAEL: I've work -- yes, Jake. There's a lot of things we've done throughout.


GALLAGHER: Two months after Israel gave that interview 85 percent of the rank and file of the Broward County Sheriff's office voted no-confidence in the sheriff. Though Israel calls the vote a union ploy to get a pay raise. Martha?

MACCALLUM: Trace, thank you very much. Now my next guest has been calling for accountability with Sheriff Israel for months. Here now exclusively, Deputy Sheriff Jeff Bell, president of the Broward Sheriff's Office Deputy Association. Sir, good to have you with us tonight.

BELL: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: It seems to be a little bit of -- it doesn't seem like this has happened yet. Do you do you think it's true that he will be suspended or is there still hope for him.

BELL: I don't think there's any hope left for Sheriff Israel. All rows are now pointing towards the sheriff's removal. It's just a matter of whether or not the governor can find a suitable replacement at the earliest time and then go ahead and remove Sheriff Israel. He is incompetent to lead an agency of this size and he is incapable of understanding the severity of the mistakes that he's been making within the sheriff's office called to lead an agency this size.

His number one picks in the surrounding command staff have torn down this agency to a level that we have never seen before and he is on the verge of being the second sheriff removed from office in the last 12 years at the Broward Sheriff's office. FITA should never be seen within a police department and he's going to the second one soon.

MACCALLUM: I mean, you know, I've gone through the points that you detailed about how you believe that he was basically supporting Sheriff Israel throughout his time there and that he changed the -- in 2013 he changed the active shooter policy and replace the language will respond to may respond. You know, and all of this would be sort of, you know, bureaucratic and ugly if it weren't for the fact that 17 people were killed under his watch.

BELL: Absolutely. And this is just a pattern of what Sheriff Israel has done throughout his administration. He started with the intentional rewording of the active shooter policy to make it more appeasing to the public. And then he started going into our police department.

And instead of having what we used to train under the warrior mindset, meaning to not be the victim first, take the fight to the bad guys first when justified is that he started implementing policies saying that we have to be polite and fair to everybody and ask dozens of time to please put your hands behind your back and risk our own officer's safety whose lives are out there in the street.

But this man and his policies and the individuals that he has personally handpicked to be the upper level of the command staff of the sheriff's office has done more damage to this agency than I can ever recall in the 24 years that I've been here.

MACCALLUM: There's a picture of fans that he ordered in support of himself, essentially, which just arrived. I guess he ordered them some time ago. I don't think they were ever handed out but would you call this an example of the kind of self-promotion that you're discussing?

BELL: Absolutely. And this is what the sheriff considers amazing leadership. Right? These fans were ordered in December of last year and they just arrived in the Chief of Staff Lisa Castille's office where she just handed them out to the community leaders in Pompano, in Deerfield, in Oakland Park.

And that's absolutely disgusting that on the same month that the sheriff is expecting the report and the release of the Marjory Stoneman Douglas commission that he authorizes and approves the expenditure of taxpayer money to buy fans like this to give out to community members throughout the churches.

But what the community should do instead of taking these fans and cooling themselves off they should take the fans and fuel the flames to keep the heat against Sheriff Israel and make sure that Governor DeSantis removes Scott Israel from office. Because every day that the sheriff stays in office --


BELL: -- it's the community's children's lives, it's the community safety that's at risk. And every day that he sits here in an office we're all at risk.

MACCALLUM: Understood. Well, that report was stunning and we heard the governor talking about reading through it himself and how disgusted he was with what he found in it. So, we may hear some news on this by the end of the week. Thank you very much. Good to see you, Mr. Bell.

BELL: Thank you, Martha.

MACCALLUM: You bet. So, coming up, freshman firebrand Alexandria Ocasio- Cortez sidestepping Democrats and issuing her own rebuttal last night to the president's Oval Office address. We will debate that coming up next.


REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ, D-N.Y.: The women and children on that border that are trying to seek refuge and seek opportunity in the United States of America with nothing but a shirt on their backs are acting more American than any person who seeks to keep them out ever will be.



MACCALLUM: Well, she has been in Congress for less than a week and already freshman Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez seems to be stealing some of the spotlight from Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi. She issued her own response last night to President Trump's speech with a call to abolish ICE. Watch.


OCASIO-CORTEZ: The president should not be asking for more money to an agency that has systematically violated human rights. The president should be really defending why we are finding such an agency at all. Because right now what we are seeing is death. Right now, what we are seeing is the violation of human rights. This is systematic. It is wrong and it is anti- American.


MACCALLUM: Here now Charlie Hurt, opinion editor at the Washington Times and a Fox News contributor, and David Brown, former senior advisor to Senator Patty Murray and a Democratic strategist.

David Brown, let me start with you. According to our information she just voted as part of the last funding measure to support ICE. So, you know, she certainly seems to be against this horrible inhumane institution, but she supported the payment to ICE.

DAVID BROWN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Hey, Martha. Good evening. So, I watched her remarks in their entirety last night and what I heard her saying was that she wanted us to be focusing on ICE and on the role of - that ICE had in the death of the child who was in custody on Christmas Day.

And she was expressing a moral outrage that anyone in U.S. custody at the border would be in jeopardy of dying. She also said that, and I think this is appropriate for a Congressman to say that we should be exercising oversight and in holding any federal agency to account. So, I'm not sure I would read her comments the way perhaps you have.

But there's a broader point here too, which is, again, we find ourselves -- it's a bit of a broken record, we find ourselves as a country debating immigration. There's a right way to do that. There's a wrong way to do that. The right way to do that is to open the government and allow for Democrats and Republicans come to the table and actually create a space where we can have a real debate and allow for a compromise and find a way forward.

The wrong way to do that is unfortunately where are right now and that is at this impasse with the president holding federal employees and the families hostage.

MACCALLUM: All right. With regard to her, you know, piping up last night. She's definitely very vocal, which she has every right to be. Whoopi Goldberg didn't think it was such a great idea. Here she is on that.


WHOOPI GOLDBERG, CO-HOST, ABC: There are a whole bunch of people in the Democratic Party who have been busting their (muted) to make sure that women get what they need. People get what they need, children get what they need. So, you just got in there and I know you got lots of good ideas but I would encourage you to sit still for a minute and learn the job.



CHARLIE HURT, CONTRIBUTOR: Welcome to the 2020 campaign cycle and I think we are going to be seeing this for the next two years. And you know, the whole reason that Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer went out last night to deliver her remarks is because they're desperate to not only counter President Trump but to give a sort of reasonable response for their party.

And of course, that gets completely undermine when you have somebody far more exciting and far more youthful and says quite frankly, crazy things like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez out there talking about how un-American ICE agents are. This is the kind of -- this is like really super fringe stuff that even Democrats still don't agree with.

But honestly, the biggest problem I think remains that not necessarily Cortez's statements although all of that about ICE and about sanctuary cities really does undercut any reasonable argument that Democrats might make.

But you know, if you just listen to what Nancy Pelosi she said the idea that she says that the wall is immoral and that the entire things are manufactured crisis by the president. Those are pretty outlandish things too. And so, I don't know which is harder to -- which of those Democratic talking points is the hardest for them to defend against --


MACCALLUM: Well, Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer and Alexandria Ocasio have called for the government to be reopened. They think that, you know, this whole thing we need to move on from office. At one point, Ocasio-Cortez said that she thought that, you know, Congress, members of Congress should forgo their salaries if other people --


HURT: I would agree with that.

MACCALLUM: -- aren't getting paid. And David, you know, we called her office to see if she's done it. She's been asked several times. She said I got to go when she was asked about it. Do you know whether or not she has volunteered to forego her own salary?

BROWN: I don't. But look, I'm always a fan of holding Congress accountable and actually functioning. I was serving as an aid in 2013 when the Republican shut down the government to pick a fight with President Obama and I was furloughed along with hundreds of thousands of other fellow employees.

And look, the reality is this for these people and their families. This is not a game. There's a real cost to folks. It's about whether they can make their mortgage, whether they can for cash their food. I mean, I was reading stories this weekend. Most Americans don't have savings.

And so, for a lot of these people this political game and you know, inside the Beltway bluster with the president and back and forth with Mitch McConnell on the floor of the Senate it has real meaningful consequences for people back home.


BROWN: And that's what to me, that's really the heartbreaking piece of this.

MACCALLUM: Well, they've had a long time to work it out and they always seem to not be able to do anything until they get to this point, which I think most people who run any kind of business thinks is reprehensible and ridiculous, but that's where we are.

I got to leave it there. Guys, thank you very much. We'll have you back again.

BROWN: Thanks a lot.

MACCALLUM: David Brown and Charlie Hurt, always good to see you. All right. So, here's the question with regard to that. Who should clean up the garbage in the national parks during the government shutdown. Here's Tucker Carlson's idea.


TUCKER CARLSON, HOST: If being an environmentalist means anything, it means protecting those places, and countless others across this continental nation, keeping them clean and protected. So, how our professional environmentalist doing without?


MACCALLUM: Jesse Watters is here with his take. Coming up next.


MACCALLUM: All right. The shutdown on day 19 now. Now not ending any time soon. So, while the government doesn't work should taxpayers still have to pay? Our good friend Charlie Hurt who you just saw says no, actually.

If Republicans in Washington were actually serious about winning one of these government shutdowns, they should immediately introduce legislation to bar the federal government from collecting any taxes while the government is close. No work. No pay.

Here for the special shutdown of Wednesday with Watters is Jesse Watters. Do you agree?

JESSE WATTERS, HOST: Yes. I mean, Trump audited me this past year.


WATTERS: I got an audit. I mean, after all the nice things I've said about this president --


MACCALLUM: Because he gets audited all the time.

WATTERS: Yes. I mean, I get, yes. So, you know --


MACCALLUM: You sent them to your house.

WATTERS: That's right. So, you know, I don't want the IRS anywhere near me anymore, I'm not paying any more taxes. I paid enough.

MACCALLUM: All right.

WATTERS: And I know I'm not getting a refund either.

MACCALLUM: Al right. So you have seen the garbage is piling up at the national parks, right?


MACCALLUM: And some of the members of Congress dropped off some garbage at the White House. Do we have that? That doesn't really -- this is Yellowstone Park. OK, but they did. All right. Just trust me on that.

So, Tucker the other night was talking about how the Sierra Club and all the environmentalist should really be concerned about litter. Right? Because that was in the beginning it was really all about litter.

So, I was saying that Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts and people should get together and go out and pick up the litter but it turns out that some people are actually doing that. And we have pictures of some of those great people, family members who went out and picked up all the liter. But do you think that that is the solution or should we not take -- should we not do the jobs that government workers will be upset if someone else does?

WATTERS: Honestly, Martha, I think to say that litter is a crisis. It is not a crisis. People not getting paid is not a crisis.

MACCALLUM: Well, it could --


WATTERS: If you are getting shot by an illegal alien that is a crisis. They're trying to create a crisis and say there's litter. I mean, didn't people used to litter all the time and no one did anything about it?

MACCALLUM: Well, that's why there was a whole like, you know, when I was growing up and maybe partly when you are going up, there was like big anti- litter campaign. But watch a scene from "Mad Men."


MACCALLUM: Because litter used to be an enormous problem in the United States. Can we play that a little bit? So, yes, so he throws the beer can at the end of the picnic and then she cleans up the picnic.

WATTERS: She just rip off the table cloth up there and they just -- look at the whole lunches there.

MACCALLUM: She work the way.

WATTERS: I mean, that's horrible.

MACCALLUM: I remember watching that scene --


WATTERS: We've come a long way.

MACCALLUM: -- and I'm like, this is so shocking.

WATTERS: I know. I can't believe it.

MACCALLUM: Because I'm so ingrained. Because I grew up during that anti- litter campaign, which thankfully worked because who wants to see garbage all over the park.

WATTERS: Now it's very clean. Now the only garbage we've seen in D.C. are the congressmen.

MACCALLUM: All right. Don't litter on your way out.

WATTERS: OK. We'll try.

MACCALLUM: No littering on the way out. So, talk to me a little bit about this whole shutdown issue and the issue of the question of all of it being manufactured.

WATTERS: Well, think about the things that they've called a crisis. We have an income inequality crisis in this country they said.

MACCALLUM: I think we do actually.

WATTERS: Yes. But --


MACCALLUM: I think that's true.

WATTERS: We have a global warming crisis in this country. We have a student loan crisis but there's not a border crisis. How many people, Martha, have died from student loans, from global warming in America? Zero.

But just in one state alone in Texas, 32 illegal aliens killed Americans in just one year. I mean, that's a lot of death and you think about all the heroine and the fentanyl that comes across the southern border. Women are being raped when they make the truck up north.

I feel sorry for some Irish bureaucrats. It might have to put some money on the credit card and dip into the savings, but I feel much sorry for the family that you just had on that loss a loved one at the hands of an illegal.

MACCALLUM: One is too many. All right. Jesse Watters, thank you. Always good to have you.

WATTERS: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: On Wednesday with Watters. Have a good rest of the week.

WATTERS: You, too.

MACCALLUM: We'll be right back tomorrow actually because that's all for tonight. We'll see you for (ph) D.C. tomorrow.

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