Pataki: Unused hospital beds should've been used for elderly in nursing homes

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This is a rush transcript from "The Story with Martha MacCallum," May 1, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Thank you, Bret. Look forward to it. We'll see you down there on Sunday. Big night.

So, without their masks and standing shoulder-to-shoulder, in many cases from New York to California and a lot of places in between. Some Americans say that they have had enough of staying home.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want to work.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's overriding. We never shutdown for the flu. Why do you want to shut down for this?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's all about quarantine. It's all about quarantine. And that's not a solution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So, the frustrations of spending day-after-day inside is something I think most Americans can understand at this point. And my next guest says he gets that, but he also wants people to understand his side of the story. And so, we let him do that here tonight.

Three weeks ago, 39-year-old Danny Lemos of Nebraska was diagnosed with COVID-19. He believes he got it from his dad who works at a beef plant. JBS in Grand Island, Nebraska, where there are about 240 confirmed cases. He was put on a ventilator. He was told he had a 20 percent chance of survival.

Thankfully, Lemos walked out of that hospital to the cheers of his children late last month. On Monday, the governor of his state is reopening many of the businesses in many places in Nebraska, hair and nail salons, restaurants, places of worship, all with safety protocols in place and limits on capacity. But Lemos says he thinks that is crazy.

The governor of Nebraska, Pete Ricketts, is standing by and we will speak with him in just a moment. He says that the data supports his plan, but we begin this evening with Danny Lemos.

Danny, thank you for being here. First of all, we are very happy that you are home with your family now.

DANNY LEMOS, RECOVERED FROM COVID-19: Yes.

MACCALLUM: That is certainly good news. And your dad, who you believe you've got this from, is still in the hospital, right?

LEMOS: Yes, he's actually, he's still in ICU in St. Elizabeth's in Lincoln.

MACCALLUM: So, he is definitely he's going to have a good recovery. Yes. We're so glad that you did.

LEMOS: He's definitely on the uphill climate thing, so.

MACCALLUM: Good. Well, that's good news. We're glad to hear it. Why do you - why are you so against with what the governor is deciding to do, given the fact that only 70 people have died in Nebraska and there are very - can you hear me OK, Danny?

LEMOS: I can, I hear you now.

MACCALLUM: You can hear me now? All right, so we're going to try to reestablish our connection with Danny. Sometimes it's a bit tricky. But let's go over and talk to the Nebraska Governor, Pete Ricketts, and then we'll come back to Danny if we can get his signal back.

Governor, thank you, first of all, for being here tonight on The Story. We've been talking to a lot of the nation's governors on this show. Basically, there's a lot of concern about reopening, especially since Nebraska has some real hot spots that have been cropping up just over the past couple of weeks. And a number of people have died, particularly at these meatpacking and meat producing plants. So, what do you say to them and what do you say to Danny?

PETE RICKETTS, NEBRASKA GOVERNOR: Well, hey, first of all, thank you very much for having me on, and we're very grateful for Mr. Lemos' recovery. So, that's a good thing. And I think what we've got to take a step back to a couple of months ago and remember is that every public health expert in the country said, look, you cannot stop this virus from coming. You can't even change the area under the curve, which means you can't stop people from getting infected because nobody's got immunity.

What you can do is spread this out so that it doesn't overwhelm your health care system. And that's what we've accomplished with those - the steps we put in place here in Nebraska. So, we've flattened that curve. Everybody who's needed a ventilator has been able to get that ventilator. Everybody need hospital beds being able to get it. And so now what we've done is and the analogy I use is it's like we can end nearly every traffic death by taking the speed limit on the interstate down to five miles an hour. We don't do that.

But that's essentially what we've done with our economy, with all these restrictions put in place. And it's been successful. It's worked. We haven't overwhelmed our health care system. We've got lots of capacity all across the state in Nebraska and especially in our metropolitan areas.

Now, what we're going to do is gradually release these restrictions so that we can find what is that right speed where we can allow people to start returning to a somewhat normal life, but still make sure that we don't overwhelm the health care system that everybody, like Mr. Lemos can get access to that ventilator.

MACCALLUM: Yes. So, the model show that you're still 11 days away from the peak in Nebraska. And that July 4th is when the models predict would be a good time to begin to make the changes that you are starting to put into place. And, you know, just to give you the words of one of your - one of the other politicians in Nebraska, Adam Morfeld, he is a Democrat.

He thinks that it is too early. Says, I think we've gone from being medically informed to a political calculation and that's dangerous when we haven't even reached our peak. What do you say to that? Why not wait just a few more weeks?

RICKETTS: Well, a couple of things. Bunch of good reasons. First of all, the data doesn't support waiting. If you look at Omaha, for example, we could probably take at least 10, if not 20 times the cases per day and still be well able to handle everything in our hospital system. So, we have plenty of capacity in our hospital system right now.

Second thing I'd say is Dr. Khan, University of Nebraska Medical Center will tell you, models are not predictive. If you look at the IHME model, for example, it bounces all around every day from the state of Nebraska, and I'm sure other states as well.

And the final thing and this goes back to, again, what we talked about with our experts two months ago is that the more you restrict the longer may people wait, more people are just going to break this quarantine anyway.

So, Nebraskans have been very patient. They've made a lot of sacrifices and it has all worked. We've got to get back to, it's not about the cases. As we test more people, we're going to have more cases. That's just a fact. So, what we have to focus on the thing that doesn't change, which is how many people are going to the hospital.

If we make sure we manage that we can make sure that we got our health care system00

MACCALLUM: Understood. And we have always put a lot more focus on hospitalizations than anything else, because the case number, the more you test, the more the case number will go up. But you have a particular situation at these meat plants and a concentration of cases and people who are getting sick, who work at them and complaints from some of the workers that there is plastic partitions that still have them only inches apart.

And because there's not enough testing, comprehensive testing at these plants, you don't know if the guy or the woman next to you has it. And although there has been compensation increase - money and compensation to keep people coming. A lot of those individuals are very concerned about the work environment that they're in. And yet, as we understand it, the President wants to keep these meat processing plants open. Is that true?

RICKETTS: Well, not only does the President want to keep them open, I want to keep them open. It's very important that we keep them open so that we can continue to have a strong food supply chain. And there's no doubt that the facilities are very difficult to do social distancing, as are the homes the people are coming from, because a lot of times they've got higher concentrations of people and multiple generations. So, we've got to take a community wide approach to be able to tackle this problem. And that's what we're doing.

We're working with the food processors. I've been on the phone with them for weeks. We have a weekly phone call established. Our University of Nebraska Medical Center and their Global Center for Health Security has published a COVID-19 playbook, which is best practices for all the facilities.

We're working with the facilities to do inspections or tours, to be able to help them do a better job on this, to do better social distancing. And we're also reaching out to the communities, through our health clinics, through trusted people in the community, to do better education around social distancing, testing, contact tracing. I do Spanish language briefings a couple of times a week to get the message out there.

We've got videos now. We've translated in French, Spanish, Nepalese, Somali, Arabic, I mean, you get the idea. It's about reaching out to those communities and making sure that both at work and at home, we're doing a good job of social distancing.

MACCALLUM: So, let me ask you this. I understand that the Smithfield factory wanted to shut down, but they reversed that decision because they were under pressure to stay open. Is that true? And what if people who work there don't feel comfortable going to work? Will they be able to get their unemployment benefits?

RICKETTS: So, I don't know that anybody, or I don't know if anybody putting pressure on Smithfield. They called us in the morning, said they were going to close, they call back in the afternoon and said, they had changed that position. So, from that standpoint, I don't believe so.

With regard to unemployment benefits, I mean, first of all, I think a lot of the plants and I don't know specifically with Smithfield, I think it's true for Smithfield, but I have to check my facts. But anyway, they're offering short-term disability for folks who have to stay home because they're sick. I know a lot of the plants are just paying people two weeks, pay time off if they're sick. So, they're really focusing on trying to get people to stay home where if one of their family members are staying home.

And again, with regard to unemployment benefits, if you've got that doctor's note that says that you're sick and this is why you're staying home, yes, you'd be eligible for unemployment benefits as well.

MACCALLUM: OK. But you can't stay home if you're concerned about being too close to the other people on the line since there are so many people who seem to be getting it, that doesn't qualify.

RICKETTS: No, that actually doesn't qualify. You actually have to have a reason. The reason could be, you've got children home because school's out. The reason could be that you're staying home to take care of somebody else or somebody in your household is sick. Or the fact that you're sick obviously is a reason for you to stay home and collect these benefits.

MACCALLUM: Right. OK, Governor Ricketts. Fair enough. Thank you for answering the questions and best of luck to you with your opening up. I know there's a lot of people who are anxious to see that happen, but obviously there's the commensurate concerns as well. So, thank you, Governor. Best of luck to you.

RICKETTS: Thank you very much.

MACCALLUM: All right, so I do think we have Danny Lemos back in communication with us. So, Danny, tell us a little bit about your thoughts and why - you hear what the governor is saying. He says, we have enough capacity to take care of people who get sick. We understand that the virus is taking its course. But he believes that there are places that can safely open up in your state. What do you say?

LEMOS: Well, I mean, granted, there might be spaces to take care of these people, but just because you can take care of them doesn't mean they're going to live through it. You know, I mean, I literally was on my deathbed at one point and I was healthy with no under lending health issues.

So, I don't know. It's just seems crazy to me. I know that this isn't any life to live as far as being stuck in your house, being quarantined all the time. So, I mean, something needs to be done. I don't know how you do it. I mean, we had what, 70 more cases today alone here in the Granite Island area. And then I think I read earlier that Georgia just reopened up and they had, what, 1000 cases within 24 hours. What can we do different? So, that we don't run into those issues.

MACCALLUM: It's a good question. And you also have to ask, you know, is it going to spread to other communities because you've got these hot spots in Nebraska that are experiencing it right now? Before I let you go, I want to ask you, when I read in your story and said that you were given Remdesivir and you may have heard. I know you've been recovering that that drug is now received FDA approval.

But it looked to me from what you said that you didn't feel like that made a difference in your case. And I'm just curious what your experience was.

LEMOS: Well, I think the article that you read had a few things mixed up because that was absolutely a game changer in my recovery. 100 percent.

MACCALLUM: Really, OK.

LEMOS: There's no doubt. There's no doubt in my mind. Yes. There's no doubt in my mind, because within 48 hours of them treating me with that, with the first time, like I said, I'd pulled my vent out. I've got put on hyper oxygen. I was up walking around, eating with all my family. Everything like I went from being as low as I could get to feel like the man on the moon, like--

MACCALLUM: That's really encouraging. I'm glad I asked you about it, because that Remdesivir obviously is, you know, something that people are hopeful about at this point. Do you also think the fact that the doctors resisted putting you on a ventilator and gave you that hyper oxygen was also a positive factor in your recovery?

LEMOS: Absolutely, I do. 100 percent, you know, and it's hard to say, but I think there's a reason I pulled my vent out, you know, who knows how long I would have been on it without me taking myself off of it. I guess, you know. I don't know how much of that played any of it. I'm here today and I'm thankful for that.

MACCALLUM: Well, we are thankful to and I know your children are, and we wish you all the best, we hope your dad has a good recovery as well, Danny. So, thank you so much and thanks for hanging with us during the technical difficulties. Nice to have you with us tonight, sir. Be well.

LEMOS: No problem. Thank you.

MACCALLUM: You bet. Interesting. He said, Remdesivir was a big game changer for him, so we're going to follow that drug very closely. That's a bit of hopeful news. Up next, after New York's frantic scramble for hospital beds and ventilators, they built all these facilities. Hundreds of millions of dollars went into them. And now the state is facing some criticism for mismanagement. The former governor, George Pataki, joins us next with his story.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: New concerns in New York tonight over waste and possible mismanagement after many things like ventilators and hospital beds and facilities went unused as the state battles COVID-19.

FEMA is closing the Javits Center after reportedly treating 1000 patients in the 2500 bed facility in a month. And the USNS Comfort sailed out of New York after seeing few patients in terms of its capacity as well.

Here now, former governor of New York, former New York Governor George Pataki joins me. Governor Pataki, always good to see you, sir. Thank you very much for joining tonight.

GEORGE PATAKI, FORMER NEW YORK GOVERNOR: Thank you, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Right. So, you know, obviously, it's good news that these facilities that were built weren't maxed out and overflowing. That would have been a complete nightmare for a city that has already endured the burden, the biggest burden of this. But it does raise questions about whether or not, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars went into building these facilities that were based on models that should not have been adhered to.

PATAKI: Absolutely right, Martha. But it's not just about wasting money, as bad as that is. It's about losing lives. And I know Andrew Cuomo is one of the most popular politicians in America today. He has his briefings that are calm and informative. But when you look at the job that he is not doing when it comes to nursing homes, those beds should have been used to put the most vulnerable in those facilities.

What happened in New York in my mind is a disgrace. The state directed nursing homes, and the one thing we know about this virus is the most vulnerable were the elderly. They directed that nursing homes take Coronavirus positive patients when they didn't have that protection, personal protective equipment. they didn't have the facilities.

And as a consequence, we are approaching 4000 deaths in New York from nursing homes alone. Yes, they have wasted assets. Those positive patients should have been placed in the Javits Center or on the Comfort. They weren't. It's a failed policy and it's really sad for the people of New York, particularly those families who have lost loved ones.

MACCALLUM: Yes, I mean, it's a policy that is just almost impossible to wrap your head around. There's one facility that has the Isabella Geriatric Center. They lost 98 people from that center. It's 14 percent of their total - in their total residents.

And I don't understand - do you understand why Governor Cuomo didn't use, because we heard that the Comfort had been reconfigured so that it could accept COVID patients, they could have space them out and given everyone plenty of room on that ship. So, I can't even imagine if your family member - how you feel about the fact that they weren't sent there.

PATAKI: Martha, New York's policies with nursing homes is incomprehensible. As you said, the Comfort had hundreds of beds waiting to take Coronavirus positive patients and the nursing homes were at the weakest of the age at the most vulnerable were put together, are required to take Coronavirus positive patients.

It is an incomprehensible policy. And Martha. I think someone should look into it, not just the lost assets, but the policies that allowed nursing homes. First of all, not to get personal protective equipment. When asked whether he would help the nursing homes, the nurses, the orderlies, the people in those facilities, the governor said it's not his job.

Well, in a crisis, it is his job to get personal protective equipment to everyone who is in need and then to demand that they take Corona positive patients. It's just senseless. So, we don't want this to happen again. Not in New York, not in any other state. Martha, we know there are going to be other health crises down the road, whether it's next year or next decade or the next generation. Someone should look into the misguided policies of Governor Cuomo with respect to New York's nursing homes, so that they never happen again.

MACCALLUM: No. I mean, it's a tragedy and a lot of these bodies that we're seeing stories of in U halls, in Brooklyn are just atrocious. And given the amount of resources that were surged to New York City, it raises a lot of questions about how those resources were used. And one can't help but look at these conditions and ask, you know, do we not care because these people are of a certain age? Because that's an unacceptable answer. And the lives that could have been saved is a real factor. Not all of these people had to die in these nursing homes just because they're old.

Governor Pataki, thank you. It's always good to see you, sir.

PATAKI: Nice to see you, Martha. Stay well.

MACCALLUM: All right, you too, be well. So, coming up next, newly released documents raise some serious questions about the FBI's handling of the Michael Flynn case, which we have documented here on The Story throughout the whole week. Trey Gowdy is very plugged in. I've been on this story since the very beginning. So, he's going to tell us what he thinks about what is now being revealed, which he was aware of. And why did Robert Mueller's team not report these documents?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: So, after the bombshell, FBI notes revealed these telling comments as agents prepare to go to the White House to interrogate National Security Adviser General Michael Flynn, telling him that he didn't need a lawyer not to worry about that. They had written on a Bill Priestap, who is head of counterintelligence at the FBI, wrote this on a piece paper.

What is our goal? Truth, admission, or to get him to lie so we can prosecute him and get him fired? Lawyers and former agents are coming to the defense of the bureau, including the lawyer for the Ukraine whistleblower saying this, the FBI notes reveal consideration of routine law enforcement interview tactics and by no means undercut General Flynn's prior admissions of lying to the FBI, a felony and accepting full responsibility for his actions.

To which, Kim Strassel at The Wall Street Journal fired back. As for liberal commentators, legal scholars saying that all of this is routine. Well, let's sure as hell hope not. The FBI exists to investigate crimes, not create them. That from Kim Strassel at the Journal.

Here now, Trey Gowdy, Fox News Contributor and former Chairman of the House Oversight Committee. Trey, welcome. Good to have you here.

TREY GOWDY, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: What do you think? Was the notes. Were the notes and was the investigation of General Michael Flynn at the White House routine for the FBI and for the agents who carried it out?

GOWDY: I hope not, Martha. And if it is routine, then why didn't they apply the same standard to Hillary Clinton that they did to Michael Flynn. I mean if you go back, so Flynn's under an investigation in the summer of 2016. A counterintelligence investigation. The FBI found nothing. They didn't find an insufficient amount of evidence. They found no evidence and they're about to close this investigation and then he has the conversation with Kislyak.

So, Comey decides to send bureau agents to the White House. Why? I mean that's that fundamental question. Were you investigating a crime, the Logan Act which never been a prosecution under that Act? Or were you conducting a counterintelligence investigation?

If it's a criminal interview, then why did you treat him so differently than the way you did with Hillary Clinton.

Remember, Martha, she had a medium-sized law firm in the room with her. They gave the question to her lawyers before they interviewed her, and they mostly assuredly told her there's a consequence for lying, none of which they did for Michael Flynn Flynn.

MACCALLUM: So I spoke with K.T. McFarland last night who was his deputy, General Flynn's deputy, and she says, you know, that it is really, beyond Flynn, they were hoping that if they pressed him hard enough, and put him in a tough enough position, and held some of his earlier comments against what he said there, that he would flip on President Trump. That he would give up some goods on the president. Do you agree?

GOWDY: Well, I do for this reason. There's a notation in these documents or at least this week to use that defensive briefing as a pretense, as a rule. So, everyone that's offered a defensive briefing by the FBI, keep that in mind. They may be interviewing you.

Remember, Comey did the same thing with Trump. He gave this defensive briefing on the dossier, but he was really interviewing him. They still thought Donald Trump was colluding with Russia when they went to interview with Michael Flynn.

So, I have every expectation they wanted to flip Flynn on the president. The problem was no one with the campaign was colluding with Russia. It wasn't Flynn, it wasn't Trump. It wasn't Papadopoulos. They were wrong about all four of their crossfire hurricane targets.

MACCALLUM: So how come when we heard from Robert Mueller and the investigation two years, and millions and millions of dollars was finished, and we got the report, where were these notes that we're seeing now?

GOWDY: They were not turned over. They have to be turned over if they're going to trial. There's a little bit of debate about it, but I think most people will tell you Brady does not implicate guilty pleas.

So, when Michael Flynn said, I'm going to plead, they didn't have to turn over the notes. But, Martha, this is not the department of, let's see if we can get away with it. And it's not the department of let's see who we can get fired.

It is the Department of Justice. Sally Yates who is hardly a Republican was infuriated when she found out what Comey had done. So that's the Department of Justice. We don't care if you're an R or D, we don't care whether we like you or we don't. We are going to treat you the same. Mueller's folks did not turn over these documents because they didn't think they had to.

MACCALLUM: Yes. With regard to the Durham investigation, because all of this happens with that as a backdrop now. And the reason that we are seeing these documents, and that they were released is because of a subsequent investigation or review of the Michael Flynn situation that was, you know, spurred on by the Attorney General Bill Barr and the Missouri attorney.

So, what does this tell us about what is coming? Because we're also told that Barr and Durham are in pretty regular discussion about the Durham investigation.

GOWDY: Yes. I think the attorney general and U.S. attorney Durham are both very interested in how this whole sordid affair began. So, the four targets, let's just go with Flynn. All right. You're going to put a general under counterintelligence investigation by the world's premier law enforcement agency, why?

What is the factual predicate where you think you have the power to put him under counterintelligence investigation for being an agent of Russia? What was it? I mean, did he read a Chekhov novel? Did he watch Dr. Zhivago? Why did you put Michael Flynn under counterintelligence investigation?

I think that's what Durham and Barr are getting at. None of these investigations were sufficiently factually predicated, and if that's true, then you're going to see a clamping down on the power that we've given the FBI. And it's about damn (Ph) time.

MACCALLUM: Do you think we'll see prosecutions?

GOWDY: No, ma'am. No, ma'am. I was talking to a federal prosecutor on the way over here. But we have got to not only associate accountability with prosecutions. I don't think it -- I think being a terrible FBI agent and treating people unfairly, it may ought to be a crime but I don't think it is a crime.

The take away is, the next time the FBI says they want to talk, tell them no. Tell them, when you clean up your act, when you quit trying to get people fired and see what you can get away with, we will start treating you like this fascinating(Ph) law enforcement agency. But until then, no, thanks, we're done talking with you.

MACCALLUM: Try Gowdy, always good to see you, sir. Thanks for coming in tonight.

GOWDY: Yes, ma'am. You too. Yes, ma'am.

MACCALLUM: So, coming up next, we are going to talk about Joe Biden, because this morning he finally spoke out about the allegations that Tara Reade, a former staffer, has leveled against him. So now what?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm saying unequivocally, it never, never happened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: A Fox News alert here. Just moments ago, North Korea shared that this first photo, they say, of Kim Jong-un on after a 21-day absence, they say he attended a ribbon cutting.

If you look at this photo online, or on your TV, you can see that it's kind of fuzzy. We tried to expand it a little bit. But it is a bit of a blurry photo. So that's getting a lot of pushback on social medial, from people who are asking questions about whether or not this photo is authentic. But there it is.

It was printed also by South Korean news service. And it came from a North Korean news service. Posting the first photo of someone that was said to be brain dead, and perhaps worse. But we'll see. We'll see where it goes. So, there is that from North Korea tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: No, it is not true. I'm saying unequivocally, it never, never happened. I'm confident there's nothing, no one ever brought it to the attention of me 27 years ago. I'm not worried about it at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Presumptive 2020 Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden spoke out this morning for the first time on a sexual assault claim by a former staffer Tara Reade back in 1993. But he also stood by his comments backing Kavanaugh accuser Christine Blasey Ford.

In 2018, he said, quote, "it takes enormous courage for a woman to come forward under the bright lights of millions of people watching and relive something that happened to her. Assert that something happened to her. She should be given the benefit of the doubt, and not be, you know, abused again by the system."

Joining me now is Leslie Marshall, a Fox News contributor whose recent op- ed is titled "I believe Joe Biden." Leslie, thanks for joining us. Always good to see you.

LESLIE MARSHALL, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Thank you for having me, Martha.

MACCALLUM: So, you know, the obvious problem here is the hypocrisy, and the way that these two allegations are being treated between Christine Blasey Ford and Tara Reade. And Tara Reade and her supporters are asking, why am I not getting the Christine Blasey Ford treatment. People are saying that she had so much courage and that everyone should believe all women. Where is that for Tara Reade, Leslie?

MARSHALL: Well, first of all, I think that every victim male or female that comes forward, and I know this myself as a victim should be believed. But I do believe with the, agree with the former vice president that you need then to have an investigation. You need then to have a vetting.

Look, whether it's Democrats or Republicans, we've seen Republicans, you know, support the women that came forward against Bill Clinton and not against Donald Trump. We've seen Democrats do the same on the left.

Personally, I'm a woman first. I don't really care what my party thinks. But I do also look at the facts. I do look at the investigation that I make on my own as a victim. If is absolutely right for Ms. Reade to feel, because the media didn't cover it, the president didn't speak out against this, that she's being treated differently.

Look, when Dr. Ford came out, Donald Trump actually mocked her. He's been kind of quiet about this, and so as the media. And I think there are a couple of reasons for that.

One, COVID-19, but I also think that there are some credibility issues with Ms. Reade that eventually some people have with Dr. Ford that we didn't see at the onset. And obviously there are going to be a lot of questions when anybody comes up with the timing of somebody in politics who is running for office, especially for the presidency of the United States.

MACCALLUM: Yes. I guess it's the question of, you know, of being given the benefit of the doubt, it feels like Joe Biden is getting that in many ways. And it feels as if the party is rallying around him.

And it's interesting that Tara Reade is a Democrat. She said she voted for Hillary Clinton. A couple of her people who say she told him the story back in the 1990s, also say that they are supporters of Joe Biden.

You know, when you look at Christine Blasey Ford situation, you know, her team said that one of the reasons that she came forward was because she was afraid that Brett Kavanaugh was going to overturn Roe v. Wade. So that makes a motive a lot more clear in her story. Does it not?

MARSHALL: No, I don't think it makes the motive a lot more clear. I think quite frankly their motives on both sides. One of the things that I wrote about in my column, as you know, and one of the things that I have a real problem with as a victim, is somebody who, like Ms. Reade who has championed in a sense, their perpetrator.

She has not once, but numerous times retweeted, liked, and spoken highly about the former vice president with regard to his work on the Violence Against Women's Act, and then other things that are against women being assaulted. But the very thing that she is now accusing him of. I have a problem with that.

Now a lot of people would say, what about those who were victims of Harvey Weinstein, very different situation. Harvey Weinstein personally held, not just the finances, not just the reputation, but the careers in the futures of many of these women in his hands. Hollywood is very different. It is a monster in a sense but a very different monster than politics that we see inside the beltway.

So, quite frankly, I think there were political -- you could argue there are political motives from both women, depending on what side you're standing on.

MACCALLUM: Well, I don't know, you know. I mean, we don't know. That's the bottom line.

I want to play this exchange between Mika Brzezinski who, you know, was pretty forceful this morning with the former Vice President Joe Biden. And she wanted him to do everything that he can to release all the documents related to his time in the Senate in order to clear this cloud completely. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKA BRZEZINSKI, MSNBC HOST: Why not approve a search of her name in those records?

BIDEN: Approve a search of her name?

BRZEZINSKI: Yes. And revel anything that might be related to Tara Reade in the University of Delaware records.

BIDEN: There is nothing. They wouldn't -- they're not there. And if they had -- I -- I -- you know, I don't understand what your -- the point you're trying to make.

BRZEZINSKI: The point I'm trying to make is --

(CROSSTALK)

BIDEN: There are personnel records by definition.

BRZEZINSKI: -- that you are --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: All right. So, this morning he kept saying that, you know, anything would be in the archives, it wouldn't be in his personal papers that are at the University of Delaware.

Then later today, he came out with a letter that says I'm writing to request your assistance in determining whether 27 years ago a staff member of my United States Senate office filed a complaint alleging sexual harassment. I would ask that the public release include not only a complain if one exists, but any and all other documents in the records that relate to the allegations.

So, are you satisfied, you know, that he is going to produce everything he has, I think a lot of people would like to see these University of Delaware documents, as well. I'm sure Tara Reade would.

MARSHALL: I want to see every document out there that would help, quite wrinkly, this woman's claim, this allegation. She kept, as we know, her employment records. She did not keep the copy that she says she had, but now doesn't have with regard to the complaint that she made as to her time back in '93, 27 years ago.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

MARSHALL: With regard to the personnel records for the office, as he had it in the Senate at the University of Delaware, I don't feel that outside of those parameters should those conversations with heads of state be released. I don't think that would be relevant.

MACCALLUM: All right. All right. Leslie, thank you.

MARSHALL: Thank you, Martha.

MACCALLUM: So, coming up next, we'll see at the real-life heroes bringing Americans together during this difficult time, after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: So, as we fight this pandemic together, we have witnessed some incredible acts of kindness like the World War II veterans who danced on their doorsteps. The teachers making socially distanced house visits, and healthcare workers fighting day in and day out to keep us safe.

We asked them what inspired them to do it, and here's what they had to say. Watch.

In times like these, the best of humanity shines. Survivors, veterans, teachers, and frontline workers across the country share messages with glimmers of hope to make you smile when these times get tough.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I came about with the time for a hope huddle so that we could share the good news of these patients who are able get extubated and off the ventilator.

(APPLAUSE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And they are getting sent home that will give all of us a little hope, and a little light that we need right now.

NICKI TSCHUDI, HEALTHCARE WORKER TRAVELED TO FIGHT COVID-19: I'm from North Carolina. I'm actually a third-year certified registered nurse. I came up to work as an ICU nurse in Livingston, New Jersey where they've been hit pretty hard with the COVID-19 crisis. It's been really cool to see the community and all the staff in the hospital really come together and support each other.

CHUCK FRANZKE, WORLD WAR II VETERAN: People have been locked in their homes for a month or more, and another month coming up. We are the kind of people who don't like to sit in our homes. We like to be at the stadiums, football games, basketball, hockey.

I'm glad to find out that the little dance we did went around and made a lot of people think of something else for a while.

BILL KELLY, WORLD WAR II VETERAN BEATS COVID-19: You can be the greatest generation. They gave me hat that said we were the greatest generation because of World War II and this type of thing. But we only did what we were supposed to do. Be positive, not negative. I can. I can. No, I cannot end.

We fought way back, went back for many too. Where we're at in America, we're a wonderful nation.

JAMIE YUTZIE, GRANDDAUGHTER OF 104-YEAR-OLD COVID-19 SURVIVOR: My grandpa Bill is a 104-year-old coronavirus survivor. He's in lockdown at the moment. But we still get to visit and see his handsome, handsome smile. I know if he were sitting here right now, he would be sure to thank all the front-line workers, he would say hang in there, we're all going to get through this.

ADAM ELZER, DONATED THOUSANDS OF PIZZAS TO FRONT LINE WORKERS: I just wanted to say thank you to all the doctors and nurses, and everybody who's working in a hospital right now. I can't tell you how much we appreciate you and everything you're doing for us. And it's been an honor for us to be able to bring you pizza, and hopefully make you smile.

ELIZABETH SCHNEIDER, COVID-19 SURVIVOR DONATES BLOOD: I am right now in the process of donating plasma for convalescent therapy for other people who are suffering from COVID-19 and unable to recover on their own. I hope that for as long as I'm able, and for as long as I have antibodies that I can do this to help potentially save someone else's life.

KATIE RICCA, TEACHER MAKES HOUSE CALL FOR STUDENT: When I saw (Inaudible) I knew right away I wanted to help cheer up. There's a lot going on in the world right now, especially with schools being closed. I challenge everyone to try to look on the bright side. Look for something good in every single day. And no matter what, don't give up.

MADELINE FAUNTLEROY, COUPLE GETS MARRIED ON ROOF AMID PANDEMIC: We got married on the rooftop of our apartment building when coronavirus canceled our big wedding plans. We are so grateful to be together and be husband and wife or even more grateful though for the healthcare and frontline workers who are carrying us through this pandemic. And they remind us that love will always win.

GERARD FITZGERALD, PRESIDENT, FDNY FIREFIGHTERS ASSOCIATION: New York has the best and bravest firefighters and first responders working hard to curb the tide of this virus. Thanks to all the frontline workers, and everyone putting their lives on the line for our safety. Keep up the fight. We are all in this together.

SCOTT SILA, NEW YORK PARADEMIC: I just want to thank everybody for their tremendous support they've been giving EMS during this pandemic. And everybody, please stay safe, stay home, and may God bless you all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Heroic actions are shown every single day. Now more than ever, anyone can be a hero. We may be in isolation, but messages can always spread beyond six feet apart, sometimes without even sharing a single word.

All over the country, parade of firefighters cheer on healthcare workers, as we're reminded that we are all in this together.

It's beautiful. God bless all those people. Look at that heart. Amen to that, right? We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: Be sure to join Brett and me from Sunday -- on Sunday from 7 to 9 p.m. live from the Lincoln Memorial for a virtual town hall with President Trump. Record a video with your question and e-mail it to townhall@foxnews.com.

Thanks for joining us, everybody. That's The Story. We'll see you back here on Sunday night.

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