This is a rush transcript from "The Story," April 19, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST: Thank you, Bret, thank you very much. And in those moments, there was a brand-new tweet from the president just moments ago as news has really breaking all over the place tonight with regard to this investigation. "James Comey," he wrote, "just through Andrew McCabe under the bus. Inspector general's report on McCabe is a disaster for both of them! Getting a little (lot) of their own medicine?" So, that as there is a bit of what you might call a whoa nelly moment in the investigation for the lawyer in New York, Michael Cohen tonight.
While we are far from the end of all of this to be sure. Tonight, we have learned that Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein told the president on a visit to the White House that Mr. Trump is not a target of the Michael Cohen investigation. Some of the reporting on the raid and word that Michael Cohen was ready to flip and testify against the president may be a bit ahead of excuse. So, this news tonight, while not conclusive, is a sign that perhaps a tap on the brakes a little bit in order here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RACHEL MADDOW, CNN: That criminal case involving Michael Cohen is directly related to the president. He got that from open court.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: He told the president that Cohen is likely to flip.
REP. ERIC SWALWELL, R—CALIF.: And you this panic among the Trump that Michael Cohen might flip.
JOHN KING, CNN: Should the president listen to those now telling him he should be worried Cohen could flip?
CHUCK TODD, MSNBC HOST: We also don't know if Michael Cohen will flip on President Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: So, Ken Starr former independent counsel in the Clinton- Whitewater and no stranger to these types of probes joins us with his reaction to all of the news tonight in this moment. But first, Chief National Correspondent Ed Henry live at the White House with all the late breaking news tonight. Ed.
ED HENRY, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Martha, and there's a lot new signs tonight that President Trump is not a criminal target in either the Michael Cohen or Robert Miller investigations. But instead, what we're seeing is some of the onetime FBI officials who've been challenging the president's candor, namely James Comey and Andrew McCabe as you just noted in that tweet, are facing new scrutiny themselves tonight. Bottom line is Bloomberg kicked a lot of this off today by reporting that in a meeting last Thursday, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein again told the president he's not a target in the Mueller probe.
The president instead is a subject of the investigation, meaning his conduct is under investigation, but there's not enough evidence to charge him. That point had been reported last month. What's significant is Rosenstein was now repeating this for the first time since the president's longtime personal attorney, Michael Cohen, had his home and office raided. And Fox News is specifically hearing Rosenstein also told the president he's not a target of the separate Cohen investigation. That is new. We pressed Rosenstein's office for his version of the conversation. We got this statement: "As Department officials have said consistently in testimony and elsewhere, we don't comment on conversations with the president."
Important to note, though, Mueller has not ruled out making the president a target in the future based on evidence that could emerge -- the same could happen in Cohen investigation, which may explain why the president, late today, also beefed up his legal team, adding an ally who's a former federal prosecutor, Rudy Giuliani. The former New York City mayor has been sharply critical of the FBI and Justice Department for going light on Hillary Clinton, while turning up the heat on the president. Well, one of those FBI officials who has challenged the president is McCabe, who was fired for leaking and then lying about it. Now, the inspector general at the Justice Department has sent a criminal referral to the U.S. Attorney here in D.C. over allegations that McCabe lied to internal investigators of the FBI. CNN asked Comey what he thought about McCabe lying. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES COMEY, FORMER DIRECTOR OF THE FBI: I'm conflicted. I like him very much as a person, but sometimes even good people do things they shouldn't do. I've read the report. I'm not the judge in the case, I'm not the discipline -- decision-maker in the case. I think it is accountability mechanisms working and they should work because it's not acceptable in the FBI or the Justice Department for people to lack candor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: Well, except Comey has been charged with candor problems of his own. Republican Charles Grassley has said four of the seven memos Comey leaked about his interactions with the president had classified information, even though Comey said in sworn testimony last year, he deliberately let classified information out of his memos so that they could be leaked. We're hearing the Justice Department will soon release redacted versions of those Comey memos, so we may be able to finally sort it out. As for McCabe, his camp put out a statement: "We're confident that unless there's inappropriate pressure from the high levels of the administration, the U.S. Attorney's office will conclude it should decline to prosecute." But a former Justice Department official said today that given the fact that criminal referral is coming from the inspector general, who nonpartisan, it carries a lot of weight, Martha.
MACCALLUM: Ed, thank you very much for that report tonight. My next guest led the independent counsel investigation into President Bill Clinton -- starting with Whitewater and ending with Clinton's impeachment about lying in the Monica Lewinsky affair. Former Independent Counsel and former Solicitor General Ken Starr joins me now. Sir, welcome, good to have you with us tonight.
KEN STARR, FORMER INDEPENDENT COUNSEL AND FORMER SOLICITOR GENERAL: Thank you, good to be with you.
MACCALLUM: So, talk to -- you know, you listen to Ed's set up piece, and you heard all of this, he said, is popping tonight with regard to McCabe, and with regard to what the president has been told about the Michael Cohen investigation in New York, what jumped out at you in all of this?
STARR: One key element, I believe, is that the president has been told again he's not a target, and this is from the deputy attorney general for the United States. So, that's pure gold. Of course, things could change, because of the facts and all of that. The second thing is that the inspector general who is a career official at the Justice Department has made this criminal referral -- that's a very important step, it's a dangerous step obviously for Mr. McCabe. But it shows that these guardrails are working, that these accountability mechanisms, as Director Comey said in 'The Lead' are, in fact, in place, and I think that should be a great assurance to the American people. The third thing that jumps out at me is that the president has hired a brilliant lawyer. Of course, everybody knows that America's mayor is a lawyer, but I would tell you this based on my personal experience with Rudy Giuliani, there's probably no better lawyer in the United States to handle this kind of very high-profile situation.
MACCALLUM: Very interesting. I want to zero in for a moment on Andrew McCabe and James Comey, because they're going after each other here and the president just said as much in the tweet that he put out, he felt that James Comey had thrown Andrew McCabe under the bus, but what Andrew McCabe has been criminally referred to for is lying to FBI investigators about releasing information, you know, acting as a source and then saying he didn't to a story in the Wall Street Journal. Now, we know that when Chuck Grassley asked FBI Director Comey, at the time, whether or not he had ever been a source for any information that went out to the press on this investigation, he said never and he said never twice. And then, he came back and said, well, I did leak information to a friend of mine because I wanted to get it out there to start a special counsel. What do you make of that?
STARR: It's extraordinarily serious. First of all, lying to Congress, like lying to the FBI, like lying under oath, and he was under oath when he's testifying before Congress. It's an extremely serious thing. It's a potential felony.
MACCALLUM: But says he was a private citizen at the time. When asked about this, he was a private citizen, I was just sharing some information with a friend.
STARR: No, but he was carrying information that he received in his or created in his capacity as director of the FBI. He just can't do that. It's totally inconsistent with the FBI's conduct. It's ethical constraints. And the office of professional responsibility of the FBI, I think, would confirm this: you don't leak. You don't get documents out of FBI headquarters at the Hoover building and then start sharing them directly or indirectly with the reporter. So, it's a very serious breach of what the FBI stands for, which is integrity. And so, both Mr. McCabe and Mr. Comey really have a lot to answer for now.
MACCALLUM: And we're going to -- we expect that we're going to get the full inspector general's report, which will go back and look at the decisions that were made in the Hillary Clinton investigation by former FBI Director James Comey. He doesn't seem to be worried about that at all right now, but clearly, that is part of the subject of this ongoing investigation. I do want to ask you about this Michael Cohen matter bit, because this has been an investigation that sort of began with Robert Mueller's investigation to Russia. Now, it has gone, sort of, down the chain, and it should be pointed out that the federal investigators sort of kicked this part of it up to New York and said there are financial issues that we're concerned with Michael Cohen and it appears tonight that is what Michael Cohen and not with the president, at least based on what we know so far. But is this an investigation that has gone too far away from its original mission? And Stormy Daniels has, you know, sort of become the new Monica Lewinsky, one would say.
STARR: Well, except there's -- the enormous difference here is the Lewinsky face of the investigation. I was trying to -- it was about lying under oath and encouraging others to lie under oath. It was about the abuse of power. So, it's a totally different kettle of fish, but the Cohen thing is very troubling to me. Any time that a lawyer's office is raided, I believe all Americans should be concerned about that. What's the justification? No, there was of safeguard in place, there was judicial review, but I'm very concerned about the process that's going to be followed to protect the attorney-client privilege, which is sacrosanct in American law and it should be. It's one of the most important elements to protect the liberties of the people. So, I'm very concerned. The jury is out, but I think everyone should be concerned about the process, and to make sure that the process is carried out now with great care and sensitivity of the individual liberty.
MACCALLUM: I want to squeeze in one more question about Michael Flynn because I can only imagine what he thinks when he looks at all of this information about Andrew McCabe and potentially even James Comey. You know, definitely, McCabe according to this report, lying to investigators, that's exactly what he was accused of.
STARR: Well, that's right. I think one of the things that has been brought home in the Mueller investigation, with different guilty pleas of a recent sentencing, don't lie, tell the truth to investigators. And all the more important when you go before a grand jury. Just don't lie, tell the truth. We have a protection, it's called the Fifth Amendment privilege, don't lie. If you can't keep from lying without incriminating or inculpating yourself, just say: I'm going to invoke the Fifth Amendment. It's a great constitutional protection.
MACCALLUM: Ken Starr, thank you. A pleasure to have you here tonight, sir. Thanks for joining us.
STARR: So, still ahead tonight, Paul Ryan has a plan to secure his legacy. He'd like to do another leg of tax cuts. It may be that the only thing standing in his way might be people encouraging Mitch McConnell to not touch that with a 10-foot pole. And the story behind the captain who kept her composure and defied the odds.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TAMMIE JO SHULTS, CAPTAIN OF SOUTHWEST 1380 FLIGHT: There is a part of the aircraft missing too. We're going to need to slow down a bit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Up next, the incredible true story of Tammie Jo Shults, one of the Navy's original female fighter pilots now being hailed a hero from of her fellow Navy pilots and good friends who knows her best.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREW NEEDUM, TEXAS FIREFIGHTER: Professional. Professional in all aspects and her crew, amazing job.
MACCALLUM: So, today, airlines across America are busy checking the fan blades on their planes. There is talk that perhaps only a sort of sonogram machine inspection could really detect the where that led to the Boeing 737 shredding an engine and sending shrapnel flying and piercing a window and that killed passenger Jennifer Reardon, what a sad story that is. She had two small children that she left behind. Tim McGinty, and a Texas firefighter Andrew Needum helped to pull her back through the window, they tried valiantly to save her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NEEDUM: God created a serving heart in me, and I felt a calling to get up and do something, stand up and act. Anyways, at that time, I went to the rear of the plane. And what took place back there, I'm going to leave out of respect for her family, I'm going to leave that alone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: What an incredible hero that man is and several others who helped him put the rest of the passengers, some of whom were struggling to pay for Internet access. Try to picture yourself doing this. As the plane is descending, so that they could get a text message out to say goodbye to the people that they love. So, they have pilot Tammie Jo Shults, who was one of the first female Navy F-18 fighter pilots to thank for the fact that they made it home. Listen to this pilot and the captain of this plane as she brought this plane in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHULTS: Engine has some severe damage, engine failure, and it's got tons of fuel. There is a part of the aircraft missing too. We're going to need to slow down a bit. Could you have the medical meet us there on the runway as well? We've got injured passengers. No, it's not on fire but part of it is missing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: That she had nerves of steel, it's no surprise, to this woman who is sitting here on set with me tonight, Linda Maloney, she is a very good friend and a former combat pilot, and she joins me now. What do you think -- welcome, first of all, it's good to have you here, Linda. Thanks for being here.
LINDA MALONEY, FORMER COMBAT PILOT: Thank you.
MACCALLUM: When you listen to her going through those moments and you know her as a friend and a human being, what goes through your mind?
MALONEY: I was just -- I was comforted by hearing her voice, she was so calm, and I'm sure that that helped all the people on the plane. You know, and I heard reports that the people felt very comforted by her and she sounded confident, she sounded competent, but she also was calm, and I think that that really helped the situation.
MACCALLUM: What was it in your training, and you're also trained as a fighter pilot, that kicks in in those moments?
MALONEY: Well, I was a naval flight officer, I actually flew enemy attack aircraft, so similar cousins to the fighter aircraft, and we all go through the same training and whether you're a guy or a gal, you all go through the same training, go through all the same emergency procedures over and over again throughout your whole time in the military. And then, that's the great foundation for many of the pilots who go on to the airlines. And they have great training programs too with the airlines, and you really just -- I always say you fight like you train and train like you fight and it just kicks in. You know, your training just kicks in and you do what you have to do. I think I've heard some reports Tammie Jo saying, I was just doing my job and that's what a lot -- most people, most aviators will say that, I was just doing my job.
MACCALLUM: Have you spoken to her?
MALONEY: I have. We've been in contact a little bit on text back and forth. Obviously, she can't talk about the situation, and but her first response was, you know, I'm OK and that god is good, faith plays a big part of who she is and how she lives her life.
MACCALLUM: She's remarkable. I want to play a little bit of Marty Martinez who was on that plane to give us a sense of the pressure that this captain was under.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTY MARTINEZ, SURVIVOR OF SOUTHWEST 1380 FLIGHT: About 20 minutes into the flight, I hear a loud boom. And as you can imagine, everyone on the plane was kind of zoned out and doing their own thing and you hear this boom and I think everybody's immediate thoughts were: did you just hear that?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: I mean, that's terrifying.
MALONEY: It really is. And it's just so heartbreaking even though they brought the plane down safely and saved all those lives, it's just so tragic, you know, for that young woman that died, and that's a mom. And I know Tammie Jo feels so much, you know, incredible sense of sadness for that too and her crew does. But also, you know, thankful that all of those other people made it out alive.
MACCALLUM: Yes. I mean, thank god, it could've been so much worse. And as you say, I think all of us look at Jennifer Reardon and you just feel for her. She's, you know, on a business trip, she wants to get home to her kids, we can all understand that feeling, as everybody travels around the country. And you know, I want to ask you about the plane and what I said at the beginning of this, about these fans inside and how difficult it is to detect wear and tear on those. What needs to change there?
MALONEY: Well, I'm not -- you know, I don't fly for the airlines, so I'm not an expert in that area, but we always would say in the military that our Natops manual, which is the procedure manual for each aircraft, is written in blood. And every time an accident happens, they have to change the rules and change the procedures. So, obviously, we'll have to take a look at that. Because who would've thought that the window would, you know, break out?
MACCALLUM: It's incredible. Linda Maloney, thank you for sharing your friend's story with us. We hope that when she can speak about this that she'll join us, because she's just an incredible hero, and I remind everybody, of course, of the landing over on the Hudson, and you just see the behavior that kicks in these professional individuals and we all are grateful to them for all they do, so thank you. Thanks Linda. Good to meet you tonight.
MALONEY: Thanks for having me. You too.
MACCALLUM: So, coming up next on THE STORY, we are live near the Syrian border where our reporter Benjamin Hall has obtained photos of what we believe to be proof that a chemical attack happened there nearly two weeks ago. Also, in Syria, the family of Austin Tice who knows the danger they're all too well. Their son who is a marine, a journalist, a student at Georgetown University has been held captive there for more than five years. Today, the FBI has announced a one million-dollar reward in his case. His parents, Mark and Deborah, join me next.
MACCALLUM: So, inspectors have been shot at over the past 48 hours. They're trying to get into Syria to confirm the chemical weapons attack and there are concerns that the Russians may have tampered with the evidence of that on the ground. Our own Benjamin Hall is live on the Syrian border and he has the story for us tonight and the details as we're learning them this evening. Benjamin?
BENJAMIN HALL, FOX NEWS CHANNEL FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Martha. You know, we've been here for the last couple of days speaking to people who are caught up in that attack, victims of that attacks, people who are still in Douma, as well as opposition leaders and doctors who treated some of those patients. And what we're learning about is this concerted effort both by the Syrian regime and the Russians to hide the truth of what happened there and mask the evidence. As you say, the OPCW has been unable to visit those sites, supposedly because of safety concerns after claims they were fired at by rebels yesterday. The numerous sources here as well as in Douma have told us that's not true. In fact, rebel fighters in Douma were bused out of the area ten days ago, and they are being in other parts of Damascus. And in fact, it's because of the chemical attacks, the rebels have finally did deals with Russia to leave. And there is more mounting evidence that the regime is trying to hide the truth. Despite this though, the evidence is still getting out to the outside world.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HALL: Bit by bit, we're able to paint a picture of what exactly happened in that terrible chemical attack in Douma. We can't get to the site ourselves, but every day, evidence and witnesses come across this border wall with more horrific details. We met up with a survivor of the chemical attack.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One had broken the roof and was stuck. Everybody in that house and at least two other houses have died. The barrel was about 5 feet long, yellow, and made of thick metal. Doctors said they only had room to treat those who had a chance of survival. They left the others to die.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HALL: We've also heard that the regime has found the graves of the chemical victims and taken the bodies of them so they cannot be tested. And doctors who have treated the victims have been harassed and their families threatened if they give evidence, but evidence is getting out. We also spoke to the rebel commander in the north of Syria who said that Americans had been there to take blood and urine samples from survivors who had managed to escape up north. So, even if the U.N. and the OPCW don't have that evidence, it appears that now the American government do. Martha?
MACCALLUM: It's an extraordinary report, Benjamin, thank you so much. So, one you man caught in the middle of all of this, an American veteran turned journalist who went back to Syria in 2012, hoping to shed light on the human suffering there. Austin Tice, described by his parents as a man who love, love, loves America, a good student, graduate of Georgetown School of Foreign Service, and still enrolled in the law school there, a veteran marine corps captain, a talented freelance photographer, and a loving big brother. But in August of 2012, he was kidnapped while he was reporting in Syria, just days after his 31st birthday.
Before he disappeared, he posted on Facebook a message to friends and family who had questioned why he would stay in such a dangerous place and here's what Austin said: "I'm living in a place at a time and with the people where life means more than anywhere I have ever been because every single day, people here lay down their own for the sake of others. Coming here to Syria is the greatest thing I've ever done and it is the greatest feeling of my life." Now, more than five years and eight months later, no one knows exactly where Austin, or who is responsible for his disappearance. There is now, as of today, a $1 million reward for information leading to his safe return. But his parents have been told by credible sources that Austin is alive and they are fighting, as they have been every day, to bring him home. Here with me now are Austin's parents, Marc and Debra Tice. Marc and Debra, thank you so much for being with us tonight. Your son's story is an incredible one and so is yours, because it takes such enormous strength to go through what you've all been through, so thank you for being here first of all.
MARC TICE, FATHER OF AMERICAN HELD IN SYRIA: Thank you, Martha.
DEBRA TICE, MOTHER OF AMERICAN HELD IN SYRIA: Thank you for having us, Martha.
MACCALLUM: You know, I want to ask you about -- when you listen to Ben Hall's report and you hear about these chemical weapon attacks and what the Assad regime is doing in Syria right now, and you know that somewhere in that country, your son is being held, what goes through your mind?
DEBRA TICE: We want him home, regardless of what's going on there, even if it were (INAUDIBLE) and they were having the opera tonight, we still just want Austin home.
MACCALLUM: Marc, talk to me a little-bit about your journey, and where you think it stands now, and who you believe has your son?
MARC TICE: Well, no one has taken responsibility or communicated with us and claimed responsibility for holding Austin. So, you know, our journey every day, job number one for us is do everything we can to find out where he is, find out what it's going to take to bring him safely home. So, we're, frankly, thrilled with the idea this reward that was recently posted, we're hoping that leads to information that gets him closer to coming home to us.
MACCALLUM: Debra, you know, what is it like when you're trying to deal with the government here and there, and you're trying to negotiate all of this? I know from talking to Mrs. Foley, it's, obviously, really difficult, harrowing experience.
DEBRA TICE: Well, it's certainly a steep learning curve. And also, Martha, I want to say that when we hear about what's going on there, we do pray diligently for -- and end of strife and beginning of healing in Syria. And, you know, our focus, obviously, is on our son, but we do see a need for things to change in the region. And, as far as what we do, we do everything we can think of to the best of our ability.
MACCALLUM: Marc, talk to us about -- Georgetown University has been very supportive of the search for your son. He's a student there. And they are doing an exhibit called Austin Tice's children of Syria of his photographs.
MARC TICE: Yeah. And, you know what, that's -- it's a fantastic thing. One of the most wonderful aspects of it is that this is a student led effort. And students, you know, from Georgetown, undergrad, and led by a remarkable young man, Ari Goldstein, who's graduating in May this year, class of 2018, along with the administration, the faculty, the staff of Georgetown, they've been tremendously supportive in putting this exhibit together, which is really reflective of who Austin is. You know, he's a man with great compassion, and was really taken by the plight of ordinary people in Syria in this conflict, and especially of the children there.
MACCALLUM: Well, we know the administration has talked recently about getting people being held out of North Korea, and we hope the same focus and strength will go towards those in Syria and towards your son. Keep us posted. Thank you so much to both of you for being here tonight.
MARC TICE: Thank you, Martha.
MACCALLUM: Good to see you both. So, coming up tonight on a very different note, magician David Copperfield takes his act to court and reveals how that trick is done. He didn't really want to, but he had to. And also, tonight, James Comey's media tour continues.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAKE TAPPER, CNN: Why would a special counsel be needed? Why was the Department of Justice and FBI not be able to continue to do the job?
JAMES COMEY, FORMER FBI DIRECTOR: Because I thought that the department is currently supervised would not be aggressive enough to go, serve, process to get the tapes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: And a lot more when that came from. Stephen Hayes and Philippe Reines are here to respond, coming up, next.
MACCALLUM: All right. Just moments ago, we got word that James Comey's memos that he typed up in the FBI vehicle when he was on his way back from his meeting with President Trump to the FBI, he wanted to memorialize exactly what had happened in that meeting as you all remember. Those notes have now officially been transferred to congress. There's a redacted version that is allowed to be released, because the classified information is blocked out. And then, there's an un-redacted version which will not be released because it includes classified information, and that's a whole other subject because Mr. Comey, at one point, suggested there wasn't any really classified information in there, so more on that as we get it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TIM KAINE, D—VIRGINIA: I voted for him for CIA director. I think he's got a great intel background, but he just has a track record of statements that are sort of anti-diplomatic during the discussion about the Iran deal.
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, D—CONN.: I think he set a poor example in terms of American values, so I will strongly oppose his nomination.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Talking about Mike Pompeo, of course. Today's Wall Street Journal editorial took a jab at Democrats and some Republicans who are giving Pompeo push back asking, quote, who needs a secretary of state? But, today, President Trump backs up his decision, tweeting, 'Democrats are obstructing good, hopefully great, people wanting to give a big portion of their life to work for our government, hence, the American people. They are slow walking all of my nomination, hundreds of people. At this rate it will take 9 years for all approvals.'
One of our next guests says the Democratic obstruction is karma. Former Clinton senior advisor, Philippe Reines is tweeting, quote, Senator Bob Corker, who wrote, Mike Pompeo deserves a vote and confirmation of the secretary of state. Remember both Hillary Clinton and John Kerry got 94 votes. And Philippe' writes, 'you know what's memorable, Senator Corker? Merrick Garland getting zero votes, so suck it up.' He's always so expressive in all of his tweets. Phillipe, good to see you. Steve Hayes, good to see you as well. Thank you both for being here. You know, but doesn't it point to, sort of, a lack of civilized behavior on the hill when you look back at the records of the way that Condoleezza Rice, and Colin Powell, rather, and John Kerry were approved by vast majorities. And yet, Mike Pompeo who went to, you know, as a Harvard graduate, and graduated at the top of his class from West Point, seems to have some problem with him, Philippe.
PHILIPPE REINES, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO HILLARY CLINTON: Well, Mike Pompeo doesn't have 90, 94, 95 votes because he doesn't have the entire Republican caucus, the person you didn't show is Rand Paul. Rand Paul at the moment is the biggest impediment to Mike Pompeo making it out of committee, let alone on the floor. And, I think in terms of tradition, the congress -- the Senate has been differential to the president very much, especially in their first cabinet. But 15 months later, and President Trump got his whole first cabinet without a problem, except for the labor secretary who pulled out himself. But 15 months later, you have Rex Tillerson who was fired, David Shulkin who was fired. You have Tom Price who was fired.
MACCALLUM: It's kind of apples and oranges. You're talking about approval -- you're talking about people who didn't work out once they were in their job. But, I want Steve to weigh in here as well on the basic question which is, is this something that should be approve -- the person the president would like to see at the state department, and he was approved roundly, 66 votes in his favor, Steve, when he was being considered for CIA.
STEPHEN HAYES, THE WEEKLY STANDARD: Yeah, look, I think the default should be to approve the president's nominees. And I would say the argument that Philippe is making would, in fact, are in favor of confirming Mike Pompeo. He's somebody who has had a successful tenure in his 15 months at the CIA. He went in, in a difficult position as an elected official, as a Republican, as somebody who was going to represent the Trump administration when the president-elect was in a fight with the intel agency, and he won over the bureaucracy and conducted himself by all accounts as a very effective CIA director. So, isn't that somebody that you would want to have in Donald Trump's ear? He's doing things like negotiating with North Korea, or fixing the Iran deal. I would think the Democrats would be desperate to have somebody who as stable and thoughtful of character as Mike Pompeo is.
MACCALLUM: So, why don't they?
REINES: I think those are good questions for Jeff Flake and Rand Paul, the two Republicans who are wavering. I mean, Rand Paul has flat out said.
MACCALLUM: No, but the fact of the matter -- when you look back.
MACCALLUM: I promise I'll let you finish. But in the past, it has been a very bipartisan, and there's always going to be some people on both sides of the fence who vote no. But, the fact is, that there's been this, sort of, vote of confidence that the president is the president, he should have the person that he wants in this position. And, you know, the person doesn't have three heads or, you know, something ridiculously egregious that -- it's courtesy to let him go through with those moves. There's no courtesy left, though, it would appear.
REINES: No, actually, he got his whole cabinet last year, and I think that was overwhelming differential to the president. Look, I think there've been less than a dozen in our nation's history of cabinet secretaries who've been voted down. I'm not sure Mike Pompeo is going to be the next one. You already had a Democrat, today, who said that they're going to vote for him. So, the only reason it wouldn't happen would be if Rand Paul took really extreme procedural steps. And -- but I think after 15 months again, people are weary. And let's not forget, Mike Pompeo had a hearing, and he said things during the hearing that people were concerned by, both Democrats and Republican. So, I mean, that's the job. The senate is not a rubber stamp. There's a balance between being differential to the president's base.
HAYES: Yeah, but, look, Martha, the Democrats are just playing games here. I understand why Philippe would want to focus on Rand Paul. But, if you look at what Mob Menendez, the senior Democrat on the senate foreign relation committee is doing, he submitted 698 questions for the record that Mike Pompeo and his team are supposed to answer. That's not because.
HAYES: That's because he wants to grind the process to a halt. And if the leaders on the Democratic side are playing politics at a moment like this, after Republicans voted 94 to 2 for Hillary Clinton, 94 to 3 for John Kerry, I think it's disgraceful.
MACCALLUM: Yeah, I want to see the 698 questions. I would pull up that list. That must be fascinating. Thanks you, guys. Steve, good to see you tonight. Philippe, always a pleasure. Thank you very much.
HAYES: Thank you, Martha.
MACCALLUM: So, coming up next, you know the saying that a magician never reveals his secrets. Illusionist, David Copperfield, forced in a court of law to spill the beans on one of his biggest tricks. Attorney Mark Eiglarsh is here on this bizarre case, coming up next.
MACCALLUM: A big secret revealed, a trick and famed illusionists, David Copperfield show in Las Vegas, appears to have volunteers disappearing from the stage, and then they reappear on the other side of the theater. But one British tourist who was selected to be part of the trick claims that he found out the hard way how this trick works and he got seriously injured. Now, David Copperfield is being forced to divulge some of his magic secrets in a Nevada court room. Trace Gallagher knows them and he joins us with the back story. Hi, Trace.
TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Martha. The British man who filed the lawsuit is 58-year-old Gavin Cox. He's a former chef at a well- known London club that once hosted the queen mother. It was during a birthday trip to Vegas in 2013, where Mr. Cox attended the David Copperfield show at the MGM Grand Hotel. Cox was among the audience members selected for lucky 13. That's a famous Copperfield illusion where 13 audience members appear to vanish. Except, now we know that when the big curtain comes down, stagehands replaced the audience members in the chairs on stage, and the lucky 13 are taken out a back door and led through the bowels of the MGM Grand. They go down alleys, around corners, even through a kitchen until, they magically appear in the back of the theater. But Gavin Cox claims during that secret trip, he fell, dislocated his shoulder and hit his head. He said the hotel was under construction at the time and he tripped over debris. The hotel and the show say the pathway was clear, but on the witness stand, the show executive producer did acknowledge that participants are told nothing. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: My question was, no time are they told what they have to do or where they're going before they start this illusion?
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: David Copperfield refused to accept responsibility, testifying in a very soft voice that he'd gone down the path 10 minutes earlier and it was clear. Then, he was asked if an audience member participates and gets hurt, is it their fault? Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: If there's a piece of debris in the middle of the way, if we were forcing to do it, all these hypothetical things. Then, of course, it would be the fault.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: Mr. Cox, who claimed he suffered a long-term brain injury, is seeking about $400,000 for medical bills and lost income. The civil trial continues, but if lawyers start probing into the secrets of other tricks, the judge says he will then close the courtroom. Martha.
MACCALLUM: Trace, thank you very much. Joining me now with more on all this, Mark Eiglarsh, a criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor. Mark, thank you for being here tonight.
MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: My pleasure.
MACCALLUM: David Copperfield is worth about $800 million according to Forbes Magazine. And he says it's not just tricks, there's secrets and a lot of hard work that goes into this. But some of his tricks, as we just showed, were revealed in that courtroom in a pretty big way. What do you make of this case?
EIGLARSH: Well, they needed to be revealed. Whether, he's going to be held responsible or not, hinges upon the details. And it comes down to two words, Martha, trip or slip. If he tripped, well, that's his fault. If he slipped, the question is was there debris like he's alleging and that could be the MGM's fault and Copperfield's.
MACCALLUM: All right. But let me ask you this, so if I'm there, right, what they do is they throw these large balls, inflated balls into the audience.
MACCALLUM: . and you catch it, and then you're one of the people, right? So, when I catch the ball and I go OK, I'm one of the people, and I go up there, am I voluntarily participating? And I know as a human being that I don't know what's going to happen next. So, I'm talking -- I'm signing myself up for the unknown.
EIGLARSH: Right. And the argument -- well, you don't let pregnant people do it, there's a reason why. But, Copperfield is very Cauchy, doesn't want to give away his secrets. But, what he is eager to tell everybody is that for 15 years, they've done this trick on over 100,000 participants. And do you know how many have been harmed? Just one, this guy.
MACCALLUM: But don't you think -- the trick is that as soon as they bring the side down, you have to run, you know, as quick as you possibly can underneath the tunnel to the back of the theater.
EIGLARSH: Right, who knew?
MACCALLUM: . and go, here we are. I mean, you know, the trick isn't really that tricky it turns out.
EIGLARSH: No, not very tricky. But, let me tell you, this is a close case, Martha, it could go either way. It really does depend on who they believe. What did he tripped or slipped over?
MACCALLUM: Slip and fall. Slip or trip, as Mark Eiglarsh say. Thank you, Mark, good to see you.
EIGLARSH: Thank you, take care.
MACCALLUM: So, coming up next tonight, they are celebrating the life of former First Lady Barbara Bush in Houston. We will take you there for The Story, next.
MACCALLUM: Finally tonight, a gathering just wrapped up in the city of Houston, celebrating the life and legacy of Barbara Bush. Fox's Mike Emanuel is live on the scene there, and he joins us with what's going on. Hi, Mike.
MIKE EMANUEL, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Martha, good evening. A beautiful evening as the Bushes adopted hometown of Houston, celebrates the life -- the extraordinary life of First Lady Barbara Bush. The mayor encouraged folks to wear blue and their pearls as a tribute to Mrs. Bush. This event at city hall an opportunity for the public to turn out and celebrate the first lady, her passing just the other day, featured music, speeches from the mayor, and also from a variety of faith leaders. It also featured the Houston children's choir, a favorite of President George Bush and First Lady Barbara, performing for them more than 30 times over the years. A short time ago, the M.C. read a letter from President George Bush to the crowd gathered for this event.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: We've been so proud to call this great city home. You gave my Barbara and me one huge gift before she left this good earth, an Astros World Series victory. Now, we just need the Rockets to give our great city another world champion. Bar, they maybe could use a little help here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
EMANUEL: People here will also have an opportunity to pay their respects at the public viewing for Mrs. Bush tomorrow at Saint Martin Episcopal Church, then the funeral will be invitation only on Saturday, featuring First Lady Melania Trump, and four former presidents in attendance to pay their respects. Later tonight, we expect when it gets dark them to light city hall blue as a tribute to Mrs. Bush. Martha.
MACCALLUM: Beautiful. It's all just getting started. Mike, thank you so much. So, that is The Story for tonight. We will see you back here tomorrow night at 7 o'clock. Now, down to D.C., and our good friend Tucker Carlson is up next. Have a good night, everybody.
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