Oversight or overkill? Sessions grilled again by lawmakers

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," November 14, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Jesse Watters and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City, and this is "The Five."

Attorney General Jeff Sessions back on the hill today to answer more questions on the Trumps team contact with Russians after evidence emerged that two former campaign advisors told Sessions about their communications. The attorney general adamantly denied accusations that he lied under oath.


JEFF SESSIONS, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: I've always tried to answer their questions fairly and accurately. But to ask, did you ever do something, did you ever meet with Russians and deal with the campaign? You're saying, Mr. Carter Page, who left that meeting, according to the press reports, and I guess his depositional interviews. It's been reported as saying I'm going to Russia. I made no response to him. Didn't acknowledge it, and you're accusing me of lying about that? I'd say that's not fair, Mr. Jeffries. I don't think it's right to accuse me of doing something wrong. I had no participation in any wrong doing with regards to influencing this campaign improperly.


PERINO: Mr. Sessions did acknowledge meeting with George Papadopoulos, a campaign foreign policy advisor who pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about his Russian contacts.


SESSIONS: I do now recall that the march 2016 meeting at the Trump hotel that Mr. Papadopoulos attended, but I have no clear recollection of the details of what he said at that meeting. I believe that I wanted to make clear to him that he was not authorized to represent the campaign with the Russian government or any other foreign government for that matter. But I did not recall this event which occurred 18 months before my testimony of a few weeks ago.


WATTERS: Sessions went on to set the record straight on whether he himself colluded with the Russians.


SESSIONS: I would just say this. I stand by this testimony at the intelligence committee. I have never met with or had any conversations with any Russians or any foreign officials concerning any type of interference with the campaign or election.


PERINO: All right. So our Founding Fathers, Greg, set up our constitution in a way that the legislative branch would have oversight responsibilities of the executive branch, which is why Attorney General Sessions makes himself available to the senators over and over again.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Well, thank you for that little lesson.

PERINO: I wanted to ask, but is it overkill?

GUTFELD: Yes, yes. We have to admit this is really, really boring. It's boring because we know the score. We know that one side is trying to outsmart or corner the other, so every day it's a constant game of tic-tac- toe that ends in cat.


GUTFELD: The Democrats are in danger of testimony exhaust syndrome. When Americans turn it on and go, I'll watch home shopping network over this. Then you look at this, it's like an episode of Law & Order where the police are interrogating a jaywalker while somebody is stealing their car, because outside this room is a whole corrupt enterprise -- criminal enterprise called the Clinton family. And they're here going over a meeting, a meeting while the Clintons basically created -- I mean, they engineered that meeting through Fusion GPS, let's face it. I mean, I connect the dots but I really don't have time.

PERINO: And you connected our dots to our B block.

GUTFELD: Thank you. It's called the long tease, Dana. Story of my life.

PERINO: The other thing, Kimberly, I was thinking the entire time that these legislative hearings go on. I understand why they call for them. Attorney General Sessions said to one of them, I was in your shoes. I understand why you want me to come up here and talk about these things. But in the meantime, the thing that really matters is the Moore investigation.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Absolutely. But so it seems like we're going back in time on some trip we didn't pay for that we don't want to do. Like reverse bicycle and it's never fun for anybody. So you're watching it and I like his voice, I like his cadence, the way he says Papadopoulos. But other than that, I'm thinking what are we really doing here? It's like putting into a trance listening to it. And you're thinking there's other really big news and investigations that we should be focusing on and talking about, and right now I don't think they made any leeway whatsoever in terms of Sessions. I mean, I don't see that they've scored any points or really got anything out of him. I think he had a certain sense of -- kind of moral outrage, a little bit of indignity, a little bit of OK, I know what you guys are trying to say, but what do you have against me. And he kind of held his ground. I don't know. I think the president would be happy with how he performed.

PERINO: How do you see it, Juan? Do you have a chance to watch today?

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: I saw a little bit of it. You know I agree with you. It's not exactly earth shaking. But, I mean, the fact is that, you know, especially as attorney generals, the chief law enforcement officer of the country, his credibility is very important. And he had come before the senate earlier and indicated he had not had discussions with Russians of any kind. And then, subsequently we learned that he did have contact with Russians. And subsequently we learned that there were aides within the campaign who said they spoke to him about their contacts with Russians. So here he comes back, and I think the important thing today was to restore his own credibility. You know what? OK. Some of this did happen, but I didn't lie to you. I wasn't lying. OK, I know now that some of this has been found out in terms of court documents, testimony, or reveals, presentations to the congressional investigative committees, but it just not that critical in terms of saying that I lied to you. But, you know, so it's important for us as Americans to have faith -- sufficient faith in our public officials that they're not liars. That would be good. But the other thing that's going on here and I think it's really important to understand is the back story. That, yeah, the Russia investigation goes on and President Trump remains angry at Jeff Sessions, and that one of the theories out there right now is that Sessions could end up being the next senator from Alabama again.

PERINO: We saw a little bit of those rumors yesterday, but Senator Mitch McConnell is not one to really dabble in rumors, especially on the record and commentary. But he actually went there today, Jesse, suggesting out loud that may be Senator Sessions is the answer to Alabama.

JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: Wow. That would solve a lot of problems that the Republicans have.


WATTERS: I think it would make Trump happy.


GUTFELD: It's like when they moved "The Five" to 9 o'clock.


WATTERS: Feel so much better back here.


PERINO: So in six months, Jeff Sessions.


PERINO: All right. Now that we have that solved, what do you think?

WATTERS: I think this is the swamp at its worse. You have stuff-shirt politicians preening for the cameras, reciting questions that were written to them by people fresh out of college, and no one lands a glove on the guy. It's going to be Watergate if you watch the news tonight. This is all about getting scalps. Jeff Sessions is a cold war hawk from Alabama, former federal prosecutor. To accuse him of being a traitor is preposterous. I think what's happening is the country is so bored by this, no one can even pay attention anymore. Papadopoulos was wet behind the ears. He was freelancing. No one even remembered what he wanted because he was so tangential. Who is this again? Papa who? No one cares.


WATTERS: I mean, it's a face you forget because no one ever seen him before.


WATTERS: That's why we're using this little sketchy picture of him that looks like he in a shadow in Prague. So -- yeah, that one right there. I mean, who is this guy? No one even knew until they saw the picture in the meeting with him and said, oh, yeah, he was in the meeting. That's why Sessions doesn't remember. And as far as the other guy goes, I don't think anybody really cares about him as well.

WILLIAMS: Wait a minute, nobody cares about anything?

WATTERS: You don't care. You don't care.

WILLIAMS: Why does anybody bring up this Russia stuff?


WILLIAMS: Because we don't want to talk about it.


WATTERS: It's another reason to remind ourselves that there is no collusion.


WATTERS: Did you see any collusion exposed? No. They're trying to get him on perjury now because they can't get him for collusion.

WILLIAMS: I'm really glad -- but let me ask you, what do you think about Don Jr. and WikiLeaks?

WATTERS: I'll tell you. I think Eric Trump is going to be the guy that gets all the Christmas presents this Christmas, because he didn't have a meeting at Trump Tower. He didn't talk to WikiLeaks. He's the good son. He's the golden boy. But no, in all seriousness, it looks like he's conversing with this guy. He blew him off. He poured a link on twitter that said, hey, check out WikiLeaks. That's a crime? Juan, please.

WILLIAMS: I thought it was very funny though that WikiLeaks is saying to him, oh, why not have Australia name Julian Assange the ambassador to the U.S., so Julian Assange can come back -- oh, why not have.

WATTERS: He didn't respond to that.

WILLIAMS: Why not released your dad's tax returns to us, so then when we attack Hillary, we have more.


PERINO: In all these years though, have we ever seen the Russians be this ham-handed, right?


PERINO: In their attempt. It seems kind of strange to me.

GUTFELD: Also, the press is so upset about these emails. Meanwhile, they see Bradley Manning and now Chelsea Manning a hero.


GUTFELD: We're not fans of WikiLeaks. None of us are. And those emails are a little weird. But it's a one-sided affair. When I saw may be two emails there that's for Donald Jr., maybe. The other stuff was all WikiLeaks. But my point being is that a lot of people think Snowden is a hero, and Chelsea Manning is a hero. Why do they care about this?

PERINO: One thing I thought that the attorney general and the administration has not done well enough, and they could've had a better answer today, was -- Kimberly -- couple of the senators asked about future elections, and what was the administration doing to help prevent foreign meddling in future elections. And there doesn't seem to be any, there, they're yet -- it seems like it could be one thing that they show that they're doing to be proactive going forward.

GUILFOYLE: That's when you talked about -- giving them something to go with from the story. So that could be information that comes out of this. They say, OK, look, wow, you guys behind the scene are acknowledging that this is problematic. It could be an issue. So we're being proactive, and we've actually come up with a platform.


GUILFOYLE: . committee to oversee this.



GUILFOYLE: And do that. Because then they're more in control of some of the messaging and.

PERINO: You have somewhere to turn.

GUILFOYLE: Instead it was just like let me draw this like really weird, you know, flowchart of how no one was in charge during the Trump campaign, and no one know who that guy was.

PERINO: Or to say that the Obama administration, knowing that this was happening, failed to do things, which makes the Democrats mad, Juan.

WILLIAMS: I've said this. I don't understand why President Obama was so reluctant to come out and say something. Now, I've subsequently learned that when he went to the hill and they spoke with Mitch McConnell and they said, you know, we should come together so the people don't see it as partisan, McConnell said no, I'm not doing it. And so, I think President Obama felt boxed in. But from my perspective as a Democrat, I think he was negligent because the country needed to understand the significance of what was taking place and it was hard to do it in such a political atmosphere, and the job didn't get done. But just to finish up on Don Jr. and WikiLeaks, you know, it seems to me that you guys just want to minimize everything that indicates, hmmm, something smells fishy here.

GUTFELD: It may smell fishy but there ain't no fish there. It's like a restaurant that smells fishy, but there's no fish.

PERINO: Gross.

GUTFELD: That's a great metaphor.


PERINO: All right. From one Russian investigation to another, the Department of Justice says it's considering a second special counsel to look into the Uranium One deal and Hillary Clinton. Jeff Sessions respond to that next.


WATTERS: Will a second special counsel be appointed to investigate the Clinton Foundation and a uranium deal with Russia while Hillary was secretary of state? Attorney General Jeff Sessions is weighing it, but firmly denies today he was influenced by the president to consider it.


SESSIONS: I would say the Department of Justice can never be used to retaliate politically against opponents and that would be wrong. A president cannot improperly influence an investigation. I have not been improperly influenced and would not be improperly influenced.


WATTERS: Republican congressman Jim Jordan followed up with this.


REP. JIM JORDAN, R-OHIO: What's it going to take to actually get a special counsel?

SESSIONS: It would take a factual basis that meets a standard of the appointment of a special counsel.

JORDAN: Is that analysis going on right now?

SESSION: It's in the manual of the Department of Justice about what's required. We've only had to two. The first one was the Waco, Janet Reno, Senator Danforth who took over that investigation as special counsel, and Mr. Mueller. Each of those are pretty special factual situations.

JORDAN: Let me ask --

SESSIONS: ...we would use the proper standards, and that's what -- only think I can tell you.


WATTERS: So do you think the DOJ should be investigating the Clinton Foundation for corruption?

GUTFELD: Absolutely. Because here's one quick key question, the Clinton Foundation got all this money, $140 million whatever, from Russia. Imagine their joy and surprise over this because I don't remember the Russians doing a lot of charity giving in the United States. I mean, do they give stuff to Wounded Warriors, or United Way, or --

WATTERS: Hurricane relief.

GUTFELD: I don't think so. Must have been a real shock to them. Could have been any coincidence involved. I think that's a really key question here that have to be -- also, it's interesting how you can love the Russian so much, five years ago, to sell them nuclear material and then think they're awful people now.

WATTERS: Is that how politics works though in Washington? Where you people make a donation, and then maybe expect something in return. Is that criminal?

PERINO: Well, that's what the Clinton Foundation said in their defense. Remember the New York Times first puts out this story in the early 2015, in the fall there, and the Clinton Foundation went berserk. They're like there's nothing wrong with this. This is just what we're doing. We're not saying that we were going -- there is no quid pro quo here for the Clinton Foundation if she were to become president that she's going to return the favor by reducing sanctions or whatever. I don't think there's ever been anything like that.

Now I guess that there are enough people that believe that Uranium One and this decision that was decided by nine different departments, that which was one that perhaps maybe there's something there. And what Jeff Sessions is saying is that he asked the prosecution team at the justice department to look at the merits of the case. If the merits of the case warrant a special prosecutor, then he won't stand in the way of that. He is saying the president didn't push him into it. The calls upon him have been coming not just from the president but from Capitol Hill. You saw Jim Jordan his question is what it's going to take to get a special counsel. And Sessions is being very careful. He talked about literally doing it by the book because his answer is it's in the manual of the Department of Justice. So he's trying to be right down and be very steady and be the attorney general that he promised the congress he would be.

WATTERS: Perhaps there is a paper trail, Kimberly, and, you know, a quid pro quo. There could be evidence of that is you have Huma saying, oh, we've got some donations. Let's take a look at this. Or you have some Russians -- oh, how much money do you need kind of thing. And that's what the investigation might find out.

GUILFOYLE: Well, right. And I think -- you know, I like his by the book approach. And again, that's why I said -- you know, yes, it wasn't like so scintillating today, but I thought it was persuasive because this to me is a man who comes out that he's going to abide by the law. That he's going to follow it and go by the book. He is discussing the specifics in terms of how an investigation should take place, and also not ruling out a special counsel and future investigation. I think that's what Americans want to hear. To me he's not presenting like somebody who is a partisan person in terms of -- like we've seen, very politicized the office of, you know, the U.S. attorney that -- it's problem. It's really is when you see people like this and you say, OK, this guy actually wants to do a good job, and he wants to not be influence one way or the other. He wants to call it like he sees it. And he's also saying what they've done in the past is not OK.

WATTERS: It would be quite amusing, Juan, if the Russian investigation wound up causing investigation of the Hillary Clinton foundation.

GUILFOYLE: Look at the smile.

WILLIAMS: I was looking at that smile. You know you're up to no good.

(CROSSTALK) WATTERS: You guys opened up a can of worms with this thing.

WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah.

PERINO: So it is political retaliation?

WILLIAMS: That's what Jesse is saying. Oh, no. How about this, am I Nikita Khrushchev or Donald Trump? I'm so mad. I don't control the law enforcement around here. Why doesn't the justice department go after those evil Clintons? Oh, who said that? I think it was Donald Trump before the Asian.

GUILFOYLE: It's more like Muhammad Ali.

WILLIAMS: Did that sound like Muhammad Ali to you? I was trying. He's pressuring Jeff Sessions who already said he doesn't it. Then why did he recuse himself? You caused me so much trouble with this guy, Mueller. Why doesn't he consider leaving -- all of a sudden, Sessions is now saying to Stephen Boyd, the assistant attorney general, oh, why don't you see if there's anything there for the Clintons. It sounds to me like pure, unadulterated political retaliation. Imagine if Obama had gone after the Bushes on waterboarding. Imagine if Bush had gone after Gore on the Buddhist temple fund-raising. This is not American. This is not normal. This is wrong.

WATTERS: So, I remember after the election, Donald Trump said no, we're not going to lock Hillary up. He's going to let her off. And I think he might have had a change of mind after this whole Russia investigation got to where it got.

GUTFELD: Yeah. I mean, let's just compare the two segments we've done so far. The A-block was a hearing about a meeting. This is selling nuclear material to Russians. I guess they couldn't work out a deal selling knives to ISIS.

PERINO: The uranium wasn't going to Russia.

GUTFELD: Where did it go?

PERINO: . the deal -- it couldn't leave the United States.

GUTFELD: It did go.

WILLIAMS: No, it did not.

WATTERS: It went to Canada, and then it went to Europe.

GUTFELD: Canada is not part of the United States.

WILLIAMS: It can't export the uranium.

WATTERS: It can't, but they did. And that's actually a fact. WILLIAMS: Let's say I don't agree with you, but let's just assume that you're right. Let's assume you're right. It was 2 percent -- this is nothing, zero. And yet, because Republicans are so.


WILLIAMS: Look, it did not open up the threat of additional nuclear weapons if that's what you're suggesting. That is ridiculous.

WATTERS: Why did we give them uranium to begin with?

WILLIAMS: Asked the nuclear regulatory commission, ask everybody who was involved if you are so scared. That's not the issue.

WATTERS: I'm not scared.

WILLIAMS: And remember -- we want control. We want influence over Russia's nuclear capabilities.

WATTERS: If we want to influence, why did we give them all the uranium? Up next, more Republicans distancing themselves from Roy Moore as more allegations pile up. We'll have the latest.


GUILFOYLE: One by one, Republicans are calling on Alabama's GOP senate nominee to step aside as sexual abuse and harassment allegations mount. Now, House Speaker Paul Ryan joining the chorus on Roy Moore after another accuser comes forward.


SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE PAUL RYAN, R-WIS.: He should step aside. Number one, these allegations are credible. Number two, if he cares about the values and the people he claims to care about, then he should step aside.


GUILFOYLE: Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell also said yesterday he believes the women and that Moore should go. But will Moore go? What are the options for Republicans? So Dana, some options have been discussed. A little bit -- a couple of chess moves we've discussed a little bit earlier.

PERINO: Firs of all, they're all basing this on that he should step aside. Even President Trump said through a spokesperson that if these things are true, then he believes that Roy Moore will do the right thing and step aside. But Roy Moore has said he has no -- there's no intention of stepping aside. But he is starting to get squeezed. He is no longer being supported by the funding from the NRSC. I think it was 43 senate Republicans now who have said, OK, enough, you need to step aside. And a lot of the additional reporting is not good for him. I don't know if that matters in actual Alabama, right? This is a state election. It's not a federal election, even though we're all paying attention to it. This is for the state to decide. But I do feel like he's getting pretty squeezed.

GUILFOYLE: Well, Jesse, some discussing, we talked about it saying, OK, Sessions back over to Alabama.

WATTERS: I don't know if Sessions wants to do that. Maybe he had to be physically place back in the seat where he came from. Listen, RBS meters went off when we heard the thing. We were right about it from the very beginning. The guy looks like a holy-roller hypocrite. This isn't just a he said-she said when it involves minors and now it's risen to the level of alleged sexual assault. We're hearing reports about him even signing high school girls' yearbooks when he's in his 30s. He allegedly banned from malls because he was trying to pick up teenagers. It just gets more and more gory and disgusting. And I feel terrible for the victims, if it's true, which it looks like -- these are very credible allegations as the house speaker said. Now, I think if you're someone on the far right or the right, you have to pick your battles. Is Roy Moore the hill you're ready to die on? I don't think so. I think there's a lot of other places you want to fight. I think sometimes you've got to know when to hold them, know when to fold them, and this might be one of those times. So I think everybody just kind of use your common sense here.

This guy who's been convicted in the court of public opinion, do you want this guy representing Alabama in the Senate and representing your party? At this point, and it looks like the floodgates are still pouring open, I can't find many people in Alabama or in the country as a Republican that would want this guy.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Well, he's not showing us any indication that he's going to leave or pull the rip cord on this, so where do you go?

GUTFELD: You know what? But I do understand why the voters, even if it's likely so that he is guilty. I do think it was a hit piece, but I think it was a factual hit piece.

You can have both. It doesn't to be either/or. It's one of those cases where we become prisoners of two ideas. He's either innocent and it's a hit piece, or you know, he's guilty and -- it could be a hit piece, and he could be guilty.

But the problem with the -- I don't blame the voters for thinking that this is an attack because it happened a month before the election. And that -- I mean, that doesn't strike anybody -- if it happened to a liberal, they would go, this is a real -- this isn't a coincidence that it happened. So I understand.

WATTERS: It wouldn't have happened to a liberal. That's why people don't like it.

GUTFELD: But the thing is, you cannot blame The Washington Post for doing its research. You can blame the Republican Party for not doing their research.

Like, for example, why did -- why did they endorse Luther Strange? Did they know about this stuff? If they knew about this stuff, and they kept it to themselves, then they only have themselves to blame.

They went for Luther Strange even though Luther Strange had some problems in his background, as well. So why did they make that choice? Maybe they heard what is now being called an open secret, which I hate that word. But -- words. But that's on the Republican Party for letting this get that far, if this stuff was common knowledge.

GUILFOYLE: Right. Well, the president endorsed, you know, Strange. He did not go for Roy Moore. I mean, you bring up a good point. What did anybody know war here or was there rumor, conjecture about this? It's interesting.

WILLIAMS: that reveals another side to the story which is Steve Bannon had backed Roy Moore. Steve Bannon is still with Roy Moore. What did anybody know or here, or was there kind of any rumor, you know, conjecture about this? It's interesting.

WILLIAMS: Well, I think that that reveals another side to the story, Kimberly, which is that, you know, Steve Bannon had backed Roy Moore. Steve Bannon is still with Roy Moore.


WATTERS: For now.

WILLIAMS: And Mitch McConnell is the one who said to the Republican Party that Greg's talking about, "We're not backing Roy Moore. We want Luther Strange." Why? Luther Strange, one, is a reliable vote for Republican causes, including President Trump, which is ultimately what persuaded Trump to back him.

But the bigger issue for the Republican Party overall is, given their experience in recent cycles with candidates who say things like legitimate rape and all the rest, it becomes toxic for the party. It suddenly becomes associated with the Republican brand. And from McConnell's point of view as the Senate majority leader, that's not good for Republicans. And I think that's what we're seeing now.

I don't know what they knew, Greg. I don't know what they didn't know, but I know there's a civil war within the party. McConnell is on one side. Bannon is on the other. And now somehow Roy Moore has been elevated as, like, which side are you on?

And I'm sorry to see that happen, because I don't think that, given the testimony...

GUTFELD: Are you really sorry to see that happen?

WILLIAMS: Right. Because you know why? You know what? I mean, you need two parties in this country. You don't -- you don't want to see politics break down.

GUILFOYLE: But at what point does the president put some pressure?

WILLIAMS: Well, I don't know.

GUTFELD: What -- there wasn't a split with Anthony Weiner. I think when that happened, did anybody stick by him?

WILLIAMS: No. Even his wife is gone now.


WILLIAMS: But you know what happened today, by the way, in the House that's interesting, is Paul Ryan has said he's going to go after setting a standard for harassment, sexual harassment in the Congress. I've never seen anything like that, because typically, that's -- that's a boys' club.

WATTERS: And it's also opening up a lot of questions about Juanita Broderick and a lot of the women that had accused Bill Clinton...


WATTERS: ... of sexual improprieties. They weren't believed then, and a lot of people are saying now maybe there's more to that story.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Ahead, climate protesters are now breaking into song to sound the warming alarm bell. Hold your ears. There's some very bad karaoke, next.


GUTFELD: When the administration gave its pitch for coal and nuclear energy at the U.N. conference on climate change -- that's fun -- it was disrupted by evil demonstrators:



PROTESTERS (singing): You claim to be an American, but we see right through your greed. It's killing all across the world for that coal money. And we proudly stand up until you keep it in the ground. The people of the world unite, and we are here to stay.

GUTFELD: Well, that's as catchy as lice -- not as enjoyable. And as surprising as the gas you get after taco -- after eating a taco supreme.

Trying to speak common sense at the U.N. is like trying to speak Chinese to a table lamp. And anything positive you say is going to get booed. The U.N. prefers dictators and socialism. If you want the U.N. to cheer you, promote failure and death. Their hatred for industry, be it nuclear or coal, is embedded in their hatred, ultimately, for capitalism. Even as we rid the world of its truly worst threat, which is ISIS, they still hate us for trying.

But what can you expect from these climate deniers? That's what these protesters are: climate deniers. They refuse to believe the climate has changed -- one to sober analysis and fact.

Here's what they deny: That coal would save millions of lives in poor countries by replacing the toxic, impure fuels they use and that the Paris Accords was a terrible deal that would also cost lives. You want to spend 100 trillion to capture a fraction of a degree Celsius? Research shows that less than half that cash could rid the world of poverty, hunger, disease and pollution. Using that cash carelessly is homicidal, which could be why the U.N. is in love with it.

By the way, Syria just joined the Paris Accords, and by the U.N.'s logic, that country is far more compassionate than us. So what if you gas your own people? At least that drives down the carbon footprint.

GUILFOYLE: Wow, terrible.

GUTFELD: It is terrible. I love, Kimberly, how those protesters, because they're ignorant. They're ignorant. They're accusing those people on the podium of murder when, if they deny coal to third-world nations, 2 to 3 million, according to the Copenhagen Consensus -- 2.8 billion people use mostly wood and dung -- dung -- to cook and keep warm. That kills 2.8 million people each year from indoor air pollution. If you replace that with coal, you would save 3 million people's lives. These people are the murderers.

GUILFOYLE: OK, so they're accessories.

GUTFELD: To crime. I'm just doing what they do.

GUILFOYLE: Right, so they're accessories to...


GUILFOYLE: Genocide, essentially, is what you're saying.


GUILFOYLE: Well, that's where you have to arm yourself with the facts and understand the issues very clearly on this.

They are -- you know, I mean, look, at least they're not Antifa. They're sort of singing in tune.

GUTFELD: That's true.

GUILFOYLE: I'm trying to be positive. They're not wearing masks...


GUILFOYLE: ... or weird outfits or, like, stabbing horses or whatever. But nevertheless, they are trying to unite and be expressive about an issue that they care about. But perhaps they're not as fully informed as they could be.

GUTFELD: Ignorant. Ignorant people

GUILFOYLE: This is the problem. So I don't know. They disrupted this. I like the little bouncing dot.

GUTFELD: You know, Dana, Bjorn Lomborg, he runs the Copenhagen Consensus Center. They calculate that for 37.5 trillion you could eradicate poverty, hunger, disease around the world. Around the world. Fix climate change, pollution, all that stuff, by 20 -- I think it's by...

PERINO: Thirty.

GUTFELD: ... 2030. Yes. So if you don't do that, and you follow the climate accords, 100 trillion over -- one to two trillion a year, you kill those people.

PERINO: It absolutely makes financial sense. This is a case that President Trump could make pretty persuasively. If he wanted to give a speech about climate change and energy, someone like him could do what you're saying. But when you're saying they're the accessory to the murders?


PERINO: Actually, why doesn't -- people with common sense actually do that?

GUTFELD: Because we're nice.

PERINO: We've been too nice for too long. And actually, technological innovation is one of the things that they were talking about there, was how you can take, because we're going to deal with coal for a long time, how can you have technological innovations developed here in the United States, address the issue of coal, make it cleaner so that people can have the energy that they need so that we can develop even better more renewable energies.

GUTFELD: Juan, why do you hate poor people from third-world nations?

WILLIAMS: Well, if you really cared about poor people from third-world nations, Mr. Lecturer over here...


WILLIAMS: ... you would -- you would understand that, in fact, in the Paris climate deal, there were concessions made to third-world countries to allow them to continue using coal and natural gas.

And it was the United States as a world leader that said, "We're going to set an example in terms of coming back. Because we want you to cut back as you grow, as you get a larger middle class in places like China and Brazil." So that's why we were in the deal, which is now going forward. Again, yesterday, we...

GUTFELD: With Syria.

WILLIAMS: Yes. Now last -- that means we're the only country not in the deal.

GUTFELD: Because we're cool.

WILLIAMS: Yes, that's it. Actually, we're warm, because we have coal.

GUTFELD: Good point.

WILLIAMS: But I would say this to your point, that you have people over there like Al Gore. I know you don't like Al Gore. And you have our former mayor, Michael Bloomberg.


WILLIAMS: Michael Bloomberg had a great quote about this, because I agree with Dana, by the way, that they -- the Trump people had a legitimate point to make about the efficient use of coal and natural gas and saying, "Hey, if it's going to be used, let's think about it."

But then you have the reality that people perceive them as such enemies, such -- so angry at the idea of trying to limit greenhouse gases that you have Michael Bloomberg say, "Promoting coal at the climate summit is like promoting tobacco at a cancer summit." That gives you an idea of how we are perceived now. By -- that's by our own...

GUTFELD: I can't help our perceptions, Jesse. And neither can you.

WATTERS: No. Imagine if -- that's true. Imagine if you're the parent and you just spent $200,000 on your daughter to go to college, probably Middlebury or somewhere like that. And you said, "What do you do this weekend, Candace?"

And she said, "I protested a coal conference at the U.N."

You've got to think to yourself, that was not money well spent. And these people probably went to very nice schools, want to put coal miners in West Virginia out of work. That's what they're doing.


WATTERS: It's true, Juan.

GUILFOYLE: They're Hillary supporters.

WILLIAMS: Oh, yes.

GUTFELD: And their dorms are heated by coal.

WATTERS: Yes, because if you don't have coal, you don't have jobs in West Virginia and places like that.

WILLIAMS: I see. And we don't have any jobs coming from...

WATTERS: Keep losing.

WILLIAMS: We don't have any jobs coming from real (ph) energy, alternative?

WATTERS: The other thing that's pretty funny, too, is that -- maybe Solyndra. How many jobs were there?

WILLIAMS: Oh, the jobs?

WATTERS: I can still count them on my fingers.

And think about, of all the tyrants and dictators and human rights abusers at the United Nations, these people decided to protest America. Think about that.

GUTFELD: I know. We -- America and others have destroyed ISIS. We're saving people's lives, and these people are protesting. It's disgusting.

WILLIAMS: What about Lee Greenwood's song?

WATTERS: I think they did a nice rendition.

WILLIAMS: That's what I thought.

WATTERS: Best part of the whole protest.

WILLIAMS: All right.

GUTFELD: All right. Joe Biden -- you remember him -- hopes President Trump never happens again. His latest tie-rade, next on "The Five."

PERINO: Tirade.

GUTFELD: Tirade. Trade.


WILLIAMS: That's good. Former Vice President Joe Biden have been parsing his words on President Trump while the president was overseas in Asia, but last night, he let loose when Stephen Colbert asked him what kind of impact the Trump presidency will have on his successors.


FORMER VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: I think, it will -- God willing, it will go down as the single exception in American history.


WILLIAMS: And then he exploded.


BIDEN: How many of you are now worried about the stability of the republic? How many are now worried about this new phony nationalism, and it's "us against them"? How many are worried about this populism that is designed to essentially undermine the essence of the Bill of Rights? I mean, I just think there's an attack on the system. And I think people are worried.


WILLIAMS: Kimberly, he's out promoting a book called "Promise Me, Dad." It's about his son, Beau, who died from cancer, on his death bed saying, "Dad, I want you to run." What do you think? Do you think he's running?

GUILFOYLE: Well, I mean, he seems like he's ready to run. You know, that his head is in the right place. He feels like that he has, you know, the most to offer. We followed up on this the other day, where he was like OK, do you think you're the best person for the job? Is your head completely in it? His answer to both those questions are "Yes, correct."

And I think he probably has a little bit of, like, you know, regret that he didn't get ahead and, you know, go and run, and that Donna didn't, you know -- "Put me in, coach." He's ready to play. That's how I see it.

And obviously, this is a good platform. He's well-liked in the Democratic Party. So I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised. I would not rule him out. He'll be part of the fray, like, climbing over each other to the top. Like, Warren and Kamala Harris. Right?

WILLIAMS: So Jesse, in fact, when he was on NBC, NBC looked like it was having a coronation party. It was just, like, unbelievable. They gave him so much time. It looks like a lot of people are just -- on the liberal side are getting behind Joe Biden.

WATTERS: You're surprised NBC gave a very soft interview to Biden?

WILLIAMS: I don't know if it was a soft interview.


WATTERS: Well, I mean, did Matt Lauer play footsie with him during the halftime show? Something like (ph) -- football. The new guys were sitting there eating wings. It was very, very warming.

Now I think the Democrats should run Dukakis, Al Gore, John Kerry, Biden, the oldest, whitest guys in the field.

GUTFELD: Jimmy Carter.

WATTERS: And see what happens. Is he allowed to run again?

GUTFELD: He could be VP.

WATTERS: He could be VP.

GUTFELD: It will make Biden look young.

WATTERS: That's right. You know, the problem is the Democrats right now, it's all about what they're against and not what they're for. And if the economy starts and continues to soar under President Trump, and they run against a very, very high-performing economy, that is going to be a very tough sell for them to do.

WILLIAMS: Dana, what do you think?

PERINO: Well, I think that if Joe Biden were to decide to run, it might scare off some of those younger Democrats. They'll think "I can't raise the money." But they're going to probably have 17 candidates in their primary, just like the Republicans had in 2016.

WILLIAMS: Greg Gutfeld for president?

GUTFELD: I could never pass the research on that. But here's what I don't understand. He's all over the place. When he was talking to Matt Lauer, he said the country was doing well under Trump. He said that, and then they asked him for examples, and he didn't give them any. But he said things were going fine.

So I think, you know, woo, there might be something going on. If he forgets -- oh, wait. Everybody says that about Trump, and you can say that about Biden. The other thing...

GUILFOYLE: Biden and Pelosi.

GUTFELD: It is getting to be an older party. They're going to need to add another "A" to "AARP."

WILLIAMS: Yes, yes, and the Republican president, I think he's 71. "One More Thing" is next.

GUTFELD: High energy, Juan.

WILLIAMS: High energy. That's right.


PERINO: It's time now for "One More Thing" -- K.G.

GUILFOYLE: And it's time now for...


GUILFOYLE: Kimberly's Food Court.


GUILFOYLE: Or "Kimberly's Pickle Court," whatever you want to call it. Because today is National Pickle Day, believe it or not. Did you even know that pickles -- look at Jesse, digging in. Yes, National Pickle Day. And according to the calendar website, it's been celebrated for nearly 70 years.


GUILFOYLE: So it's not, like, a new thing. And each year the United States consumes 5.2 million pounds of pickles. They are fat free and low in calories.

PERINO: Mouthwatering.

GUILFOYLE: Do they taste good to you, Jess?

WATTERS: Delicious.


GUILFOYLE: ... because I like them.

PERINO: All right. Greg.

GUTFELD: All right. So I had some great visitors, the Kids' Day reporters, who are actually going to be on my show, our special Thanksgiving show, "The Greg Gutfeld Show." John Helou (ph) -- which I probably ruined his name, Harrison Handley (ph), Alex Happ (ph), Fred Chrysler (ph). They're all from Our Lady of the Hamptons School in Southampton, believe it or not. And they're going to be on my show.

They grilled me on my history as a pseudo-journalist. And they tore me to pieces.

But you know what they did? They brought gifts. Now, this is kind of funny. Because you know the Snickers bars, they have words on them, so they picked out a Snickers bar to describe each one of us.


GUTFELD: So for me, I was "Sarcastic."


GUTFELD: And then for Dana, it was "Princess."

PERINO: Oh, wow.

GUTFELD: For Jesse, it was "Oddball."


GUTFELD: Juan, "Confused." Confused.

And of course, Kimberly, "Cray Cray."

PERINO: That's so cute. Thank you, guys.

GUILFOYLE: Thank you, guys.

GUTFELD: I'm going to eat all of them.

WILLIAMS: All right.

PERINO: While we talk about that, check out this video. It's bananas. This is a -- Jelani (ph). Jelani is a male gorilla. And he loves to look at people's videos. And with this guy, he sat there and he swiped all of the Tinder photos and Bumble photos, whatever they were. Back and forth, back and forth, because he loves to look at videos. He's so cute.

All right.


PERINO: Jesse.

WATTERS: All right. We've heard of an emotional support dog. Now an emotional support squirrel. That's right. We have a guy, Ryan Boylan in Florida -- of Clearwater, Florida, actually. He's got a squirrel named Brutus. He got into a car accident.


WATTERS: And instead of a dog, he has the squirrel for emotional support. And he's getting evicted from where he lives, because the residents don't like it. And on "Watters' World" this weekend, we will have Ryan and the squirrel on the show. We're going to hear his side of the story.

PERINO: Juan, we only have 20 seconds.

WILLIAMS: Well, let me see what I can do. LeBron James had an excellent adventure with his team's trip to New York yesterday. They were told it would take 45 minutes by bus to get back to the hotel after the shootaround in the morning. So they took a six-minute ride on the subway. The only problem, as he was doing a video, some of the New York strap handlers said...

PERINO: Got to run.

WILLIAMS: ... "Get that camera out of my face."

PERINO: All right. "Special Report" is up next.

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