Obama under fire for slow response to Russian meddling
Does the former president owe the nation an explanation for his silence? Reaction and analysis on 'The Five'
This is a rush transcript from "The Five," June 27, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: Hello everybody, I'm Jesse Watters along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Richard Fowler, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld. It is 9 o'clock in New York City, and this is "The Five."
What did he know and when did he know it? That's the question many are asking about President Obama after "The Five"'s bombshell report last night about how back in October, Mr. Obama said it was basically impossible to rig the presidential election. Obama said this despite learning in August that Russia was in the midst of a sophisticated cyber campaign aimed at influencing the election.
According to FOX News, President Obama did not mention the Russian meddling once between the time then-candidate Trump accepted the Republican nomination in Election Day. The question now is whether Mr. Obama owes the country and explanation for his silence. And just in case anybody missed it last night, here is what President Obama said about rigging an election. Roll it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER UNITED STATES PRESIDENT: There is no serious person out there who would suggest somehow that you could even rig America's elections. In part because they are so decentralized, and the number of votes involved. There is no evidence that that has happened in the past, or that there are instances in which that will happen this time. And so I'd advise Mr. Trump to stop whining and go try to make his case to get votes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATTERS: Stop whining Dana Perino. What do you think?
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Okay. Well, the whining is coming from lots of places partly because President Obama knew all of these things. I believe there is probably is an explanation that in his mind, if you go back in time knowing what he knew at the time, that he thought that he was doing the right thing. The question is, would he be willing to then share that with us now, or is he going to wait? He wasn't shy last week when he decided to comment on the Republican health care bill.
WATTERS: Right.
PERINO: He wrote the Facebook post about it. So, it's not that he's unwilling to engage in public debates. And I actually think on this one, it's not a debate, I just think that people would like to know what he was thinking, what he knew. Because now at this point, everybody is on the same page that Russia tried to meddle in the election. So, then what do we do going forward. Because that's actually the more important question. Which is how do you protect the elections going forward like in 2020 or even 2018 or 2020.
If he feels like he doesn't want to do it himself, if you go back to 2009, there was a model that worked I think very well for President Bush. And that was that President Obama spent a ton of time attacking George W. Bush about torture.
WATTERS: Uh-hm.
PERINO: And it was Vice President Dick Cheney who was not shy about coming out, and he gave speech after speech, remember the dual speeches against President Obama?
WATTERS: Are you saying send Biden out there to clear this stuff up?
PERINO: I am. I am saying that he should send Vice President Biden -- if the President is not willing to do it himself, I think that Vice President Biden is an excellent choice to explain what they were thinking at the time and let the chips fall where they may.
GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: I have a better suggestion.
WATTERS: What would that be?
GUTFELD: They should appoint Mitt Romney to look into the Russia connection because it was President Obama who mocked the candidate Romney when he brought up Russia.
WATTERS: It's what they said the 80s called, they want their foreign policy back.
GUTFELD: Exactly. And now, you know, President Obama, we know he didn't speak out because he painted himself in a corner. He had said that Russia was no threat. The same thing he did with ISIS. And so his ego forces him never to admit that he is wrong. So, he could admit that ISIS was not a jayvee team or that Russia is at fault. So, he made -- these are all really big mistakes.
And it's hilarious that the more that you dig into this Russia story, it becomes the Democrats story, not a Republican story, and it makes President Obama into the world's worst renter. He leaves the place in a far worse estate than he found it. If you look at Russia, if you look at ISIS, if you look at Iran, he is like a frat that trashes a hotel at Panama City Beach.
PERINO: He fainted in the bathroom.
GUTFELD: Yes. Exactly. And he let the check, the balance deposit just bounced.
WATTERS: Greg saying, Kimberly that President Obama is a little embarrassed about maybe what he said to Mitt Romney, and then if you double down on that, President Obama got smoked by Putin in Syria, got smoked by Putin in Ukraine, allegedly now got smoked by Putin at the election. Do you think he is just saying, you know, this doesn't look good for me. That's why --
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Well, you don't want to say that Putin did in fact had a material impact on the election.
WATTERS: He is saying that there was alleged tampering --
GUILFOYLE: Right.
WATTERS: I think was the accusation.
GUILFOYLE: But what I know and what we know from the reporting and the timeline and the chronology is really important here in terms of the fact is that we know the President -- now we know for certain, and we know talking about on the show last night, and today as the story has developed, that President Obama believed and knew that Russia was trying to influence the United States presidential election.
And May of 2016, they were already actively involved in unmasking officials and trying to find any proof of collusion, obtaining FISA warrants within the Trump administration -- the campaign rather at the time, trying to see if anybody was colluding with the Russians. So if you knew all that and he didn't say anything when candidate Trump got the nomination and he didn't say anything between the period of time when candidate Trump got the nomination and then eventually won the presidency, why is that?
WATTERS: And not only did he not say anything, apparently he didn't do much of anything either. Richard, is that dereliction of duty when you know that the Russians are trying to, you know, create this espionage within our electoral system and he don't do anything about it?
RICHARD FOWLER, CO-HOST: That's a loaded question. But let's talk about a couple of points here. Number one, the argument is Obama being smoked. Right? Remember that, whether it's Obama or Donald Trump or George W. Bush or Bill Clinton or Ronald Reagan, they represent the United States of America. Right. So, that means our entire nation got smoked by the Russians, and sadly the current president still won't admit that Russia engage in our election. Even though, 17 --
PERINO: He did now.
FOWLER: Finally --
WATTERS: Did you watch last night's show? Juan said the same thing and he was debunked.
FOWLER: Okay. That's fine. So, it became six months to admit something that we've already known. That's great for American confidence. Number two. I think when we sit here and we talk about how you talk about it, Jesse, I think you've taken out all the politics out of this year. Just imagine if President Obama at the time went to the America people and said that the Russians have rigged our election and we've got to stop it, and I'm going to have a full-fledged investigation.
Folks like yourself would have said, oh, they are tipping the scale for Hillary Clinton, they are blaming this on Donald Trump. So the President had to make a calculated decision. Do we do everything we can behind the scenes to stop this, including addressing Putin directly at the G7, or do we go out to the American people, possibly because don't forget, Republican controlled House and the Republican controlled Senate have our FBI director subpoenaed, have James Clapper subpoenaed and engaged literally interfering the election by endless hearings.
WATTERS: So, you're saying President Obama cared more about the politics and not the integrity of the election?
FOWLER: No. I'm saying the opposite. He cared about the integrity of the election to the point where he didn't want --
PERINO: But don't you think can we ask him the question of the law, which is, do you think that President Obama should have come out and gave an explanation?
FOWLER: No, here's the thing. If the President wants to come on and give an explanation I think he should. If he wants to -- Joe Biden, he should. I think we do have questions on why he did it.
PERINO: Right.
FOWLER: I'm not questioning if he should have did it. I just want to know why he did it.
WATTERS: You know someone else wants to hear from President Obama, it's Newt Gingrich. Roll the tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NEWT GINGRICH, FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Yes, there's a big Russian story. It's Barack Obama, not Donald Trump. The Congress has an obligation to call him. How can you be told the President of the United States knew last August the Russian were in fact involved in this and not ask him and ask him under oath? I mean, how can you be so irresponsible?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATTERS: What do you think the chances are Barack Obama testifying under oath?
GUTFELD: Unfair. Unfair. He is right now engaged in the greatest vacation ever. He's on a David Gapen's (ph) yacht.
WATTERS: Yes.
GUTFELD: Richard Branson's private island.
GUILFOYLE: Yes. Necker Island.
GUTFELD: He's now in Indonesia at the Four Seasons. He's not coming back, not with all of those dogs.
WATTERS: I mean, I thought --
(LAUGHTER)
GUILFOYLE: My God!
PERINO: That's ouch!
GUILFOYLE: That's awful.
GUTFELD: Hey, he wrote about it.
WATTERS: Yes. He did write about that.
GUTFELD: In his own.
WATTERS: Didn't President Obama at one point say, you have to have enough money at some point?
PERINO: Yes.
WATTERS: Isn't there too much money? Apparently not enough money to satisfy him.
FOWLER: Last time I was here was Clinton today --
(LAUGHTER)
WATTERS: No one is --
GUTFELD: That's the story. Because that's the story.
WATTERS: Okay. So --
FOWLER: In my view, can I explain --
WATTERS: Yes. Go ahead.
FOWLER: Newt Gingrich flip-flopped, I respect his work, but he flip-flops more than anybody else that I know. He's for it, then he is against 12:00, then he is for before 12:00. And sometimes it's the opposite.
WATTERS: Let me put this to you, Richard. The left made a big thing about this memo that President Bush got I think it was in the summer or the spring when he was president, his first year, that Bin Laden determined to attack the U.S. And then 9/11 happened. And he got killed for that memo. Now it looks like President Obama for about six months was receiving very, very detailed memos and intelligence about actual Russian interference and meddling attempts in the U.S. election. And did nothing about it. What's the difference?
FOWLER: I wouldn't say that he got killed. I think people ask questions like they're asking about Russia meddling. And what happened was, wait a minute, I'm glad you brought that up --
(CROSSTALK)
I'm glad you brought that up, because you know what the Senate did then? They appointed a select committee of people outside of Washington to figure out what happened. Then they released a book.
WATTERS: Okay. So, Romney --
FOWLER: Four hundred pages book called the 9/11 commission to tell the American people what happened. That stifled a commission. And he has muddied the water on Russia completely. Period.
WATTERS: Okay. Kimberly, would you like to respond?
GUILFOYLE: I would like to see through these murky waters. Yes. Here's the thing. We're looking for 10 minutes of explanations. President Obama did not say anything about it because he thought HRC was going to get the nuke, member of coin, the Franklin plate, as the next president of the United States, and no need to upset that outcome that they thought was predetermined.
WATTERS: All right. Coming up, big news in the effort to get rid of ObamaCare. Details ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PERINO: Some major updates today in the battle to end ObamaCare. Senate Republicans announced that they need more time to repeal and replace President Obama's signature health care law. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell saying there won't be any votes until after the Fourth of July break. President Trump today invited Republican senators to the White House and remains determined as ever to make ObamaCare a thing of the past.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have really no choice but to solve this situation. ObamaCare is a total disaster. We're going to see what we can do, we are getting very close. But for the country, we have to have health care, and it can't be ObamaCare which is melting down. The other side is saying all sorts of things before they even knew what the bill was. This will be great if we get it done. We have a chance to do something very, very important for the public. Very, very important for the people of our country that we love.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: As for the Democrats, they sent some blood in the water.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No surprise that Senate Republicans needed another week or two to try to jam their Trumpcare bill through given everything it would mean.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Republicans cannot exercise the rotten core at the center of their health care bill. No matter how the bill changes around the edges, it is fundamentally flawed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This Republican repeal bill is not some fine wine that gets better with age. It turns sour.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: But Speaker of the House Paul Ryan is countering by saying that the Democrats don't have any ideas of their own when it comes to improving health care in America.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL RYAN, SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Well, I think the left is out of gas. I think they just basically decided to resist, resist, resist. They want government run health care. Government run health care is classing while we speak. It's not working, and so what are we doing? We are replacing with a law that would actually work.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: So, Greg, you have Paul Ryan saying like, trying to explain it. President Trump trying to explain it, and then that montage of Democrats or same people are going to die.
GUTFELD: Well, this is the way it goes. Democratic Party is the boy who cries murder. You know, everything we do, everything we do is going to cause murder. All they are trying to do is, what's your problem, let me finish -- you're trying to reform. It's something simple.
You are trying to reform an entitlement, and that becomes literally a massacre. See you can't even touch anything. I mean, Schumer a.k.a. clown face, says that it's rotten at the core. What is at the core of this bill? Choice. So here's the difficulty we have to understand. We are comparing something mandatory, ObamaCare, to something that is optional, which is this new thing. It's like comparing a prison cell to a bedroom.
One is mandatory, one you can leave. You can leave your bedroom, you can't leave a prison cell, you can leave the new bill, you can't leave ObamaCare. So instead of treating these options as the same, because you can't compare a prison cell to a bedroom, why don't you make the cell more like a bedroom and introduce competition and choice. Because it's not going to go away. That's what they are trying to do. They are trying to at the core put choice so that the prison cell is more like your bedroom.
GUILFOYLE: Did you just say make like a bedroom, more competition and choice?
PERINO: No!
GUTFELD: That's what you heard.
(LAUGHTER)
GUTFELD: But you know, that's not a bad idea, Kimberly. Go to my website.
(LAUGHTER)
PERINO: Jesse, one of the complains from the conservatives is that it actually does a repeal and replace ObamaCare?
GUILFOYLE: Yes.
WATTERS: That is right.
GUILFOYLE: That it's just tinkering around the edges. And then you have moderates who are unhappy so President Trump brings them all to the White House today, and how do you actually try to fix that where you have conservatives and moderates both unhappy, is there a way to get to yes by August 1st?
WATTERS: I think we are going to find out. But I would rather delay a good bill than rush a bad bill. And McConnell, he is like the Jedi knight of the Senate. So, whatever is going to happen it's going to be a lot smoother than what happened in the House, I can guarantee you that.
GUILFOYLE: Wow!
GUTFELD: Wow! Sexier.
WATTERS: I know there's a few Republican senators --
GUILFOYLE: He thinks he's sexiest.
WATTERS: -- that just want to repeal this but they kind of want to do it under the offices of ObamaCare light. Because you are operating under the existing ObamaCare framework. And then there is the conservative holdouts that want a full on repeal and replace. And then there were about the deficit and liberty. And then there are some people that are on the fence that love the Medicaid goodies.
PERINO: Right.
WATTERS: So, I don't know how they're going to thread the needle. Some people say that McConnell has designed this thing to allow these holdouts to swoop in at the last minute --
PERINO: Oh -- with these people.
WATTERS: I believe her name was Dana Perino. Swoop in at the last minute with a few tweaks and then claim victory. And if that happens, that's fantastic. But, you know, I just think ultimately the Republicans really want to reduce premiums and reduce the deficit, and they are treating Americans like adults. They're not going to try to force someone to buy a product that they don't like or want or need.
GUTFELD: I am all for tweaking.
PERINO: Kimberly, I did talk to somebody who knows Senator McConnell well, and they said that they believe he would not have postponed this vote if he didn't think that there would be a different outcome and a month then he would have had today.
GUILFOYLE: Yes. I mean, I think that's 100 percent correct than you did in your great matter. Great prediction. Now, journal last night think it was going to happen before the Fourth of July's August 1st. I think that they feel very confident that they're going to be able to get this done. They need a little bit more time.
It was really quite a big push before the Fourth of July, but the sad part is that the Democrats who voted for Hillary Clinton election, they really think that these Republicans want -- and members of Congress, are going to kill 100,000 people, everybody is going to die. It's murder and mayhem. Just to give one percent of the wealthiest people in America a bit of a tax break. That just makes absolutely no sense. If they think that, then they deserve ObamaCare, not the extraordinary Trump care --
PERINO: That is what the Democrats are saying. In addition to that, they've taken it a step further. Elizabeth Warren, the senator from Massachusetts today saying that Democrats should run on a single-payer platform. Basically on socialized medicine. What do you think of that?
FOWLER: So, I have a couple of few things.
PERINO: I figured you did.
FOWLER: I will get to the bipartisan point first. Social Security is the third rail of American politics. I will now change that and say that health care is the third rail of American politics. And here's why. Because there is no perfect solution.
GUTFELD: You're right.
FOWLER: And I think what the President tried to do with the help of one Republican who voted for the bill, and ten months of hearings, President Obama that is, if he tried to find a way to make the system work. Right? But what you are asking insurance companies to do who are privately owned, for-profit companies, is ensure people they don't want to ensure. Which is a problem with both the Affordable Care Act as well as Trumpcare, whatever, the accessible health space care act, whatever they want to call it.
WATTERS: Space.
FOWLER: Because they put (INAUDIBLE) even those one word.
(LAUGHTER)
FOWLER: So, what you have there if you've noticed in this bill, there's a bailout for insurance companies, meaning that they are saying that the insurance market is unprofitable, which leaves to where Elizabeth Warren is going. The only step next is single payer whether you like it or not. Now. Now --
PERINO: But are they unprofitable because there's not enough competition - -
FOWLER: No. I think they're unprofitable because the Affordable Care Act, part of the protection part of it where they have ten things that you have to cover, insurance companies don't want to cover them. Right? And it's beyond just maternity care. But they don't want to cover your ambulance ride if you have a heart attack at your retirement party. Right? So, that's why --
GUILFOYLE: That's true.
FOWLER: They could do that before ObamaCare, and ObamaCare point aloud and said, they have to cover for your ambulatory care and your ambulance transfer to the airport. But beyond that point, it doesn't matter what Democrats do. Because you don't need us to pass this bill. Donald Trump's problem is not the Democratic Party. It's not Elizabeth Warren, it's not Bernie Sanders but his problem is his nine Republican senators, it's probably ten by tomorrow, who want to vote against it. That's the problem. Don't blame Democrats. Don't blame the other party.
PERINO: That is a fair point.
FOWLER: You guys have a super majority, you can get this deal done in reconciliation. Too bad. Your members won't vote for --
GUILFOYLE: But who do you blame for the 44 percent of counties that have no insurance providers this year or the other 41 percent that only have one provider and no choice?
FOWLER: Well, I won't tell you -- no, I don't blame ObamaCare. I blame the fact that Donald Trump is campaigned on repeal and replace, the Wall Street is saying that this is going away. So, insurance camps are like, hey, we're not going --
WATTERS: Insurance camp is revealing last year, long before anybody knew he was going to be president --
PERINO: Right. Marco Rubio said, oh, no, no, no.
FOWLER: But we needed to fix it.
PERINO: Obviously, we can't be able to solve it in this block but we had a good discussion, and obviously more to come. More chaos at CNN over the network's coverage of the Russia investigation. We've got that story, up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUTFELD: Fake news. President Trump loves to call CNN's coverage of the Russia investigation, quote, "fake news." And the network hasn't done anything recently to change his mind. Yesterday CNN announced three of its journalists resigned over a now retracted article that said Trump ally Anthony Scaramucci was under Senate investigation over ties to a Russian investment fund.
The network said that the article, quote, "Did not meet CNN's editorial standards." And there's more. Today, the conserved investigative group Project Veritas released an undercover video of a senior producer at CNN criticizing his employer's coverage of the Russia probe.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Honestly, he paints the whole Russia (bleep) --
JOHN BONIFIELD, CNN SUPERVISING PRODUCER: It's just like mostly (bleep) right now. Like we don't have any -- any giant proof. They really don't have it, but they want to keep digging.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Uh-hm.
BONIFIELD: And so, I think the President is probably like to say, like, look, you are witch-hunting, like you have no smoking gun. There's no real proof.
The CEO of CNN said in our entire meeting, he said good job covering the climate accords. But we are done with that. Let's get back to Russia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: Let's get back to Russia. Well, CNN put out a statement saying it still quote, stands by medical producer John Bonifield and values a diversity of opinion among its staff. Now by that, do they mean a diversity of truth?
GUTFELD: There's no such thing as a diversity of truth, Kimberly. I was wondering why they kept doing the stupid story. You know, it's like CNN, the Russia story, it's like a kid staring at a pot of water on the stove having no idea that the burner is off. It's not getting any hotter. But now I know why. It's because they had to keep matching the narrative. They created a story to match the narrative for the purposes of ratings. They were treating the story like professional wrestling.
They had villains and heroes and they were following a path towards a climax, except that the climax never comes. That's why they keep rolling the stuff out. And keep going on and on and on. I'll tell you what. We do fixate on stories at FOX, but it's not for ratings. It's because we give a damn. I mean, we talked about Benghazi every single day and it wasn't for ratings, that's for sure. But it's because we cared.
And this is why your camera persona, on this table, and your beliefs in the green room should be the same. Because sooner or later you're going to get found out. If you are off there talking about how many guns you own, and then you come on here and start talking about how gun-control needs to be enhanced --
PERINO: Yep.
GUTFELD: -- you are going to be exposed for that. And that's important.
PERINO: Yep.
GUILFOYLE: All right. So, Dana, this was a big story that's developing over the weekend, it has continued through this week. And it should, because it matters in terms of journalistic integrity. It seems that CNN was chasing ratings at the expense of human collateral damage and individuals they smeared like Anthony Scaramucci and also a bloodlust to go after the American president and delegitimize them.
PERINO: A bloodlust? I don't know if I would go that far. I do think that CNN and all -- look, all cable news has a way of obsessing on stories. Remember when they covered the plane, the missing plane for like, I don't know, however long that was? And I assume that they are doing that for business reasons, which I don't know if that is actually working for them, but also because there was this preconceived idea.
And what he says in the video is that what he thought was more important was climate change, OK. So there is also another -- they were having an internal fight over what was more important. And you could imagine there's plenty of people in the newsroom which all thought climate change was a lot more important, and the head guys were like, actually, it's not rating it all. Let's go back to the thing that was rating. I can understand that.
On the Anthony Scaramucci thing, and I sent you a note about this, he was so classy and gracious when CNN apologized and he was like that's good, we can move on. Then the reporters actually get fired and I'm interested to find out their side of the story. You know one of them, Eric Lichtblau, he's a very formidable adversary as a reporter when it comes to covering the government. He was the one that broke the news about KSM being held and George W. Bush had to come out with that and the "New York Times" ran that even though we asked them not to.
But I think that they are trying to cover stories too quickly and to meet a preconceived notion and there's no need to. There's plenty of time. There's plenty of viewers, but to go with a one source story when you have four reporters on it, that seems to me to be way out of bounds.
GUILFOYLE: Yes, without any evidence whatsoever to support it, Jesse. No facts.
WATTERS: No. I think Dana makes a great point. Russia is CNN's missing plane story and they are not going to find evidence like they did with the plane too. I also think the scandal here is that the medical producer is eating Chick-fil-a. I mean, what kind of medical producer eats Chick-fil-a? I don't get that either.
I think the video is a big black eye for CNN no matter how hard they try to spin it. But the core of the video is what everybody already knew, that CNN is biased against Trump, wants him to leave office, and they are pushing at the Russia story for ratings and cash.
Now, if a Fox News producer was caught in a video sting saying that the company wants Obama impeached and they're pushing a bogus story about the president's birth certificate just for ratings, and the CEO is on board with it that would be national news. It would be national news. But this was buried just like everything else. But I think the actual real scandal is these three guys resigning, which I think they did honorably for pushing a fake news story --
GUTFELD: And also, the birth certificate is real.
GUILFOYLE: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: I'm not sure that's the best comparison to -- I think it's probably more of a --
WATTERS: No, because this apps (ph) comparison so far --
(LAUGHTER)
GUILFOYLE: -- forced out, paid out, resign from the situation. All right, so what do you think, and I guess you're happy that you work here.
(LAUGHTER)
FOWLER: I am happy that I work here. But no, I did get it. We got to split up the two stories, right. So I think the first story was Scaramucci -- journalists get it wrong sometimes. These guys got it wrong. It's unfortunate. They resigned. CNN apologized, let's move on.
GUILFOYLE: But it wasn't that innocent. This was very specific and --
FOWLER: No, whatever you want -- which is why I think they resigned.
(CROSSTALK)
WATTERS: I would give you one anonymous source.
FOWLER: I will give you all of that.
WATTERS: One anonymous source.
FOWLER: I will give you -- I'm giving you all of that --
GUILFOYLE: From someone's office.
FOWLER: but let's --
WATTERS: Give me more Richard.
(LAUGHTER)
FOWLER: Not so fast. Let's talk about the second one. So you have a medical producer who doesn't work in breaking news, he doesn't work on any of the major shows. He probably produced for like Sanjay Gupta or somebody or some obscure doctor in the back and they talk about heart disease and eating Chick-fil-a.
WATTERS: Don't you dare (Inaudible) with Sanjay.
FOWLER: And this is what I call Project Veritas is the epitome of gotcha journalism. They show up. They put the camera in their hats --
GUTFELD: Like "60 Minutes."
WATTERS: And you know what? They got him. You know what? They got him.
FOWLER: But that's my point, like, why can't we just -- I don't understand why, like you should never, ever, ever uphold this type of journalism amongst the real journalists an people who --
WATTERS: Wait a second, "60 Minutes" or ABC do sting videos all the time, Richard --
FOWLER: But also, Project Veritas has been known to doctor videos. They've been known to doctor tapes. They have a horrible reputation. Horrible.
WATTERS: Everybody edits down large versions of raw footage.
FOWLER: Pull the facts, they cut, edit, tape.
GUILFOYLE: So far there's no --
WATTERS: Everybody edits tapes.
FOWLER: I'm not saying that they --
GUILFOYLE: No, no, but so far on this one, as the story stands tonight at this hour, there hasn't been anybody saying to contradict or say this is edited or doctored, et cetera. So, whether you object to the means of collection and the way they do investigative journalism does not change the content of the tape. That's the problem.
GUTFELD: My favorite sting video, if you love someone, set them free.
GUILFOYLE: I've tried that with you so many times.
(LAUGHTER)
GUILFOYLE: More massive problems in Seattle after yet another far left proposal goes awry. Greg analyzes the situation after this quick break. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUTFELD: Tell them to quiet down.
A few years ago, Seattle raised its minimum wage to $15 an hour. Liberals applauded, as trained, but some of us wise ones knew better:
(BEGIN VIDEO 2015 CLIP)
GREG GUTFELD: Minimum wage is designed for entry-level -- teens, people who just start in the workforce. It was never originally meant for heads of household supporting families, which may be there, and it maybe a tiny percentage, but this is basically for people who want to move up. If you raise that rung, then you have to raise all the other rungs.
That causes more pain for the small businesses because he has to raise everybody's salary.
The end result is you take a pie that used to have eight slices and now you've made it six slices. You've eliminated two jobs, which is why pizza joints are closing in Washington.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: Good-looking guy and smart. For as predicted the wage hike killed over 6,300 jobs and slashed wages by $125 per month in 2016 in Washington. That's from a new study by the National Bureau of Economic Research. It's real. What The Washington Post calls "bad news for liberals," not workers, but liberals. That's their first instinct, to worry about liberals. They're such jerks.
But anybody outside The Post could've seen this coming. Let's say a shop has eight jobs at $7.50 an hour and you double the salaries. If the budget remains constant, you've got to cut four workers. That's math. The media and Dems, they know math but they pretend not to:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
SENATE MINORITY LEADER CHUCK SCHUMER, D-N.Y.: One constant in the last 10 years have been the Republicans in Congress who are standing in the way of raising the minimum wage.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, I-VT.: We have got to raise the minimum wage to a living wage. If you work 40 hours a week or 50 hours a week, you should not be living in poverty.
HOUSE MINORITY LEADER NANCY PELOSI, D-CALIF.: I'm very honored to join the fight for 15. This is a living wage. We're proud of what we've done in California. I know that the distinguished Senator Murray is proud of Washington State, but we want that to happen in the whole country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: Their combined age is 800.
(LAUGHTER)
GUTFELD: So, they accept long-term hardship in return for immediate, feel good sentiment to be part of the compassionate club even if the club hurts others. The result: They shrink the job pool and future opportunities -- after all these jobs aren't for persons to stay put, but to give them a head start.
When I was young, I knew that first crappy paycheck was temporary. Hell, my job title was "temp." But somehow the Dems believe the first rung is also the last rung and then you're the bad guy for saying no. But we know that you can't get to the second rung without a first. And making that rung -- first rung too expensive only means more automation. See McDonald's. Remember the sign, no shoes, no shirt, no service. With automation, it's no salary, no benefits, no humans.
You know, I wish -- Kimberly, I hate having to point out that I was right. I would rather be wrong.
GUILFOYLE: You're brilliant still.
GUTFELD: I wish you could pay more at entry-level positions and have more jobs but math says no.
GUILFOYLE: It sounds wonderful and we want people to do well. We want families to be able to feed their children and to pay for education and for people to be able to leave something to their loved ones so they've been able to live the American dream in this country. It's really what we all want. But what is the best vehicle by which to achieve that? Is it by making this mandatory minimum wage and raising it?
Well, no. The economics don't prove true. The math doesn't want (ph) that supports that kind of theory and in fact this is really, in my opinion I think it operates as like an unfunded mandate on small businesses. A mandate, do not work, it only hurts job creation and tells businesses that want to be entrepreneurs and small businesses, hey, sorry, unless you can do this and subsidize the United States economy, you can't live your American dream.
GUTFELD: Yes. You know, Richard, I think that thing that people forget about is if you raise the minimum wage in a business that matches say somebody on the upper level, then you got to give everybody else a raise because you can't have like a 16-year-old making $15 when the 60-year-old managers making $15. Do you follow me?
FOWLER: I follow, but I don't agree with your mathematics on that.
GUTFELD: All right. You don't have to. It could be wrong.
FOWLER: I know I don't. I know I don't. No, here are my thoughts on this. Don't get me wrong, I think that there -- we've got to do some tinkering with this, right. But I think here's what we know to be true. Most of the people who are minimum wage who are the head of household which is quite a number of --
GUTFELD: Small, small number.
FOWLER: That's a lot like --
GUTFELD: No, it's part of the whole group.
FORWLER: All right. And what we know is this, and so when you're taking care of your family, that extra money always goes right back into the economy. So usually what you see when you raise minimum wage like when George Bush did -- he was the last president to raise the minimum wage -- you see an uptick in economic growth because they have less disposable -- they spent all the money they get as soon as they get it because they have to make ends meet. And so we have to create a system where that is not the case and I don't think the business model of not raising the minimum wage works on this one.
GUTFELD: All right, Dana.
PERINO: Well, I would say that the federal minimum wage is what they were talking about there, and it was minimal, but there's not that many people that work in the federal government for minimum wage. Also, the other thing I would say is that an editorial, "The Washington Post" talks about that there was bad news for liberals and you mentioned workers, but they also don't say is that news for the employers because they actually showed in the study that there was an economic impact for those employers.
So basically, you have to make a decision on whether you're going to close your business or not.
GUTFELD: Jesse.
WATTERS: I think Democrats always get burned by their own good intentions. You know, when you raise minimum wage, you make poor people poor. You pull out of Iraq, you create ISIS. You enact Obamacare you raise premiums. You open the borders, it makes people less safe, and you expand welfare it destroys the family and it makes people more dependent.
GUILFOYLE: This is getting depressing.
WATTERS: Democrats always throw more money at things as the solution, but what happens is more money, more problems. Don't forget who said that. I saw one of this -- I don't know. Also, either the Democrats don't understand basic mathematics. Capitalism is not a charity case. Capitalism exists to provide goods and services to people, and make profits for businesses.
GUILFOYLE: Right to free market.
WATTERS: Minimum wage is a stepping stone. You want to be able to first flip burgers and then flip houses. It's not the en result.
GUTFELD: All right. And on that great know, up next, Bernie Sanders is reportedly lawyering up.
PERINO: Getting a lawyer.
GUTFELD: Getting a lawyer. Thank you. FBI comes, details.
GUILFOYLE: Next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOWLER: A federal investigation is swirling around Bernie Sanders. According to reports, the FBI is coming looking into whether his wife committed bank fraud when she secured a $10 million loan for the now defunct Burlington College where she previously served as president. One allegation is that Senator Sanders office pressured the bank to approve the loan, although his spokesperson tells Fox that the senator is not personally under investigation. Here's what happened when one of our reporters asked him about it yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDERS: Where are you from?
KARA ROWLAND, FOX NEW REPORTER: Fox News. CBS is reporting on this, Politico is reporting on this. Do you still believe it's politically motivated, sir?
SANDERS: Well I'm glad that you're interested in the fact, that the Republican leadership is proposing legislation which would throw millions people off of health insurance.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOWLER: Greg, your thoughts.
GUTFELD: My thoughts are he really is an expert in student debt. He borrowed millions and closed the college. That's kind of impressive.
PERINO: And he wants to make sure -- and he wants to make college free.
GUTFELD: Yes, he did. Their college is --
PERINO: Well, congratulations to Kara Rowland who's our reporter there on the ground. We got that because it wasn't asked of Bernie Sanders over the weekend when a prominent journalist had him on the show. I would say that the problem with Democrats --
(LAUGHTER)
GUILFOYLE: Who's mature --
PERINO: The Democrats --
GUTFELD: I could swear you said Chuck Todd.
FOWLER: Come on, let Dana talk.
PERINO: -- think they are above the law. Hillary Clinton thought she was above the law. Bernie Sanders thinks he's above the law on these things. Maybe he's not personally involved but, I mean, you can't d this kind of things and then have your congressional office twist arms.
FOWLER: Jesse, I'm waiting. Go ahead.
WATTERS: I say innocent until proven guilty.
FOWLER: Wow!
WATTERS: But --
GUTFELD: He's guilty.
(LAUGHTER)
WATTERS: The Sanders could be the new left-wing Bonnie and Clyde if they do get convicted. And if they are convicted, I think President Trump should pardon Bernie, because I think that's the righteous thing to do.
FOWLER: Just when I thought you were going to take the moral high road. Kimberly.
GUILFOYLE: Well, you know, everybody deserves their day in court, so we're going to wait to see the full investigation --
PERINO: Easy to prove this, Kimberly?
GUILFOYLE: -- no one is retracting the story. Pardon?
PERINO: Is it easy to prove this?
GUILFOYLE: It's not that easy to prove. I think it's going to take time. They're going to have to go through and see what kind of specific intent this is going to be, but there is a number of people they have to talk to, to say, you know, what happened, what transpired? Was there any communication, was there any text messages, e-mails, phone calls, personal notes, recollections. Comey type of memos, typed up and leaked to a professor and given to the --
WATTERS: I'm just shocked the media's not covering the story more. I mean, this is just --
FOWLER: In all fairness to the media, it was covered by another network today, an hour before the show started.
WATTERS: Once.
GUILFOYLE: The one that's still in business or not?
FOWLER: Yes.
GUTFELD: The greediest people are socialist.
FOWLER: Can I just say the point of this is just allegation and investigation, and he lawyered up and that is the story, but guess what, Jared Kushner lawyered up, Donald Trump lawyered up, Donald Trump's lawyer lawyered up.
WATTERS: That doesn't stop the media for becoming hysterical over just an allegation.
FOWLER: Everybody in the Trump's administration has lawyered up including the vice president. "One More Thing" is up next. Don't go anywhere.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WATTERS: It's time now for "One More Thing." I'll go first. Donald Trump has to rename crying Chuck, dancing chuck after new video released of the minority leader cutting a rug at a picnic. There he goes doing his thing.
FOWLER: Hey.
GUILFOYLE: He can dance well.
WATTERS: I actually think it's not bad.
PERINO: It looks like a wedding.
GUILFOYLE: I like to see him dancing --
WATTERS: He's got good old man dance moves.
PERINO: Why is everybody wearing hats?
GUTFELD: I don't know.
FOWLER: A barbecue.
GUTFELD: I'm tired of watching it.
WATTERS: But I think it's pretty good.
PERINO: It was a hat party in Brooklyn, OK.
WATTERS: OK, Greg doesn't like my "One More Thing." Kimberly?
GUILFOYLE: I liked it very much.
WATTERS: Thank you, Kimberly.
GUILFOYLE: OK, fantastic. All right, so everybody, our colleague and friend Eric Bolling has a brand new book out. It is called "The Swamp," he talked about it a lot on "The Five" and it is finally here, "Washington's murky pool of corruption and cronyism and how Trump can drain it." He's very excited about this project.
He worked on it a long time. And he is in "New York Times" best seller from his first book. So this is all about the deplorables and he has a dedication inside of it that's fantastic for all of you out there that voted and supported the president and think that D.C. is still a problem. This book speaks to you indeed. And you can get it now on Amazon and the president retweeted it already. So there you go.
WATTERS: Congratulations.
GUILFOYLE: Congratulations Bolling.
WATTERS: Eric Boling. Dana Perino.
PERINO: OK, you know, our colleague Shannon Bream --
GUTFELD: Yes.
PERINO: She is co-host of "America's Newsroom." It's not a book, it is a podcast that she had and I was her guest yesterday. Here's a snippet.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
PERINO: When I was just a baby, my grandfather bought me -- I was the first grandchild on that side so, he bought me a pony. Her name was Sally.
SHANNON BREAM, CO-HOST: I used to have one named Dixie.
PERINO: Oh, that's cute.
BREAM: You know, it's the south, what are you going to do.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
PERINO: Jesse can't wait to listen to that on the way home. It's really extra very interesting, "Living the Bream" podcast. What are you (INAUDIBLE)?
WATTERS: Riveting, riveting, someone bought me a pony named Dixie, oh, mine was Daisy, OK. Greg?
GUTFELD: I got an article up by foxnews.com/opinion. It's called, "A country who knew too much." It's pretty interesting, but more important, it's time for this, "Greg Slow News Day." I love it.
All right, Jake, damn (ph) and dog, show it. There he is. This is in Fort Wayne, Indiana (inaudible) league baseball game.
PERINO: Oh, he brings the water.
GUTFELD: Brings water to this guy, opens it up, he drinks it. Dog likes to perform simple tricks much like me.
(LAUGHING)
GUTFELD: That's your slow news day.
PERINO: Wow, riveting. Aren't you going to comment Jesse?
GUTFELD: That's the point.
WATTERS: You know what my comment is, how did you not have that video, Dana? She's upset she didn't have the video up until.
FOWLER: So this is an attack on Donald Trump that I think both Democrats and Republicans can agree on. So, over the week, we found Donald Trump -- he pissed off some golfers because he drove on the green, and you're not supposed to drive on the green. But I guess Jesse will --
PERINO: But if it's your green are you allowed?
FOWLER: It is his green. It's his New Jersey green. It is at the Trump National Golf Course in Bedminster, New Jersey.
WATTERS: So, it's his own course, so he's allowed to drive on the green?
FOWLER: So you're going to make an excuse for this one too, Jesse?
WATTERS: Because it's his own course. Kimberly, you had something to add?
GUILFOYLE: Yes. Control room, can you please run my fantastic award- winning interview with Mr. Bolling that is found from last night?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: I'm here with Eric and I want to say congratulations.
ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Thank you, KG.
GUILFOYLE: Another must-read fantastic book, "The Swamp."
BOLLING: Let's have a cocktail and raise a glass and Donald Trump, drain the swamp.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATTERS: All right, set your DVR's and never miss an episode of "The Five." "Hannity" is up next.
PERINO: And good luck to you Allie (ph).
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