Obama sticking with ISIS strategy despite recent 'setbacks'

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," May 21, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: This is a Fox News alert. A massive manhunt is under way for a suspect to police say brutally murdered a family and their housekeeper in an upscale Washington D.C. neighborhood. Daron Dylon Wint aged 34, apparently tied them up and beat them. That was before setting their mansion on fire. Investigators now say, they think they know where the killer is. Peter Doocy has been following the story. He joins us from outside the crime scene with details on how law enforcement linked Wint to the murders. Peter?

PETER DOOCY, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Kimberly, incredibly, a piece of Dominos pizza crust survives the inferno that was intentionally set by the killer or killers of the Savopoulos family. The Washington Post was first to report, investigators found this piece of pizza crust, they scraped some sort of DNA off it and quickly matched it to the suspect whose DAN was already in the system. This fugitive suspect Daron Dylon Wint had a long wrapped sheet featuring, burglary, weapons and property destruction charges. Our affiliates WTTG has learned the night before the fire, a dominos delivery driver arrived at the home while the family was being held hostage inside and found an envelope of cash for the food waiting. So the driver left the pizza, took the money and drove out without seeing anything alarming happening on the other side of the door. There was another very large package of cash, the Post reports, with $40,000 inside delivered the following day by an assistant to Mr. Savopoulos, but hours later, the money was gone, the house was on fire, and four innocent people lay burning inside brutally murdered. The police chief of Washington here is trying to reassure some uneasy neighbors in this very fancy neighborhood that they do not believe this was a random crime and that the suspect somehow knew Mr. Savopoulos in his capacity as the CEO of American Iron Works of the family's main enterprise. But many other important details of this case remain a mystery tonight and the suspect remains at large, possibly up in your neck of the woods. Kimberly?

GUILFOYLE: All right. Peter, thank you. Now we go David Lee Miler in Brooklyn, New York with more as the manhunt has moved to the Big Apple. David Lee?

DAVID LEE MILLER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Kimberly, authorities believe that it's very possible that the suspect Daron Dylon Wint is or was here in Brooklyn, New York. It is not entirely clear how he got here. It is very possible authorities say that he took a bus earlier today. New York Chief Police Commissioner Bill Bratton said that he had talked with his counterpart in Washington, D.C. about trying to locate the suspect. There are reports that an apartment was searched here in Brooklyn, New York and that authorities are now questioning a girlfriend of the suspect. According to those reports, the girlfriend is now in a police precinct in Brooklyn being questioned by investigators. So far there aren't any sightings of the suspect. No one coming forward publicly to say the suspect has been seen here in Canarsie, Brooklyn being questioned by investigators. So far, though, there has not been -- there not been any sightings of the suspect, no one else publicly coming toward at this time to say that the suspect was seen here in Brooklyn. The U.S. Marshals Service says that a nationwide manhunt is now underway, Kimberly. And among other things that means they are conducting operations at places like airports as well as bus stations. And as for the suspect, as we just heard Steve Doocy mention, he does have a criminal record and now according to a published report, it appears that as far back as 2005, his own family, Kimberly, sought and obtained a protective order after the suspect allegedly threatened to shoot his father and his stepmother. And as for a description, the suspect, Daron Dylon Wint described as being, 5'7'', 155 pounds, he is black hair with a dark complexion, last seen wearing blue jeans, a blue hooded sweatshirt and white tennis shoes, there is a $25,000 reward for information leading to his arrest. Kimberly?

GUILFOYLE: Tragic story. David Lee, thank you. We will gonna monitor any developments and speak with Greta Van Susteren, later in the hour who has been following the case closely. But first, President Obama granted an interview to the Atlantic. Claiming the fall of Ramadi at the hands of ISIS is only a setback. Quote, "I don't think we're losing. There's no doubt there was a tactical setback, although Ramadi had been vulnerable for a very long time." End quote. Josh Earnest reiterated the president's position, just this afternoon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I think it is a setback. I think that's the word we have described over the course of the last week. It is actually the same word the president used as I mentioned in Tuesday's briefing, when the president is not going to be in a position where he is going to consider a large scale U.S. military deployment. And for those who are calling on a change in strategy, I would encourage them to be specific.

(END VIDEO CLIP) GUILFOYLE: But it's not just Ramadi. It is Mosul and Fallujah and other cities across Iraq and in Syria. New estimate reveal ISIS controls 50 percent of the territory in the country. General Jack Keane testified this morning in a senate hearing about Iraq and Syria and warned against our current path.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GENERAL JACK KEANE, FORMER VICE CHIEF OF THE UNITED STATES ARMY: Looking at this strategy today, we know now that the conceptual plan is fundamentally flawed. The resources provided to support Iraq are far from adequate, the timing and urgency to provide arms, equipment and training is insufficient. And as such, we are not only failing, we are in fact losing this war. Moreover, I can say with certainty, that this strategy will not defeat ISIS.

(END VIDEO CLIP) GUILFOYLE: NBC Chief Foreign Affairs Correspondent Richard Engel took his condemnation of the administration, a step further.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) RICHARD ENGEL, NBC CHIEF FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Although the U.S. is leading an air war against Iraq, or in Iraq and in Syria against ISIS, the group is continuing to expand. And I think it raises enormous questions about the strategy, you know, the definition of stupidity frankly, is continuing the same course and expecting a different result. And I think --

JOSE DIAZ-BALART, MSNBC ANCHOR: And Richard, what you --

ENGEL: We may be heading in that direction.

(END VIDEO CLIP) GUILFOYLE: Strong words, harsh criticism for the administration and what many feel is a war that we are now losing and in fact, a lack of strategy to turn it around -- Eric your thoughts?

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Listen to General Keane, we are losing the war. Listen to President Obama and Josh Earnest heard (ph) from the White House, we are winning the war, it's just that -- the media is misinterpreting what is going on. They are right, the White House that Ramadi has been close to being taken over for a long time. ISIS is pushing, which tells you, ISIS isn't being pushed back. They are not in retreat. But -- you know, the question is, is the strategy, if there a strategy, is it working and they are just not telling us? It doesn't seem like it. But what do you do from here? Roberts Gates, former defense secretary said, we need boots on the ground. They need to be Arab boots on the ground. There are those that say there should be American Special Forces on the ground. I think we all agree at the table that a vast, a huge deployment of American soldiers, military people, wouldn't be the right strategy. But I would tend to agree, I always said let's (inaudible) Obama's key boots out of the -- American boots off the ground. I would love to see Kurds, Arab boots there, and at least minimal number of Special Forces there.

GUILFOYLE: OK, Dana, you have a little bit after different strategy?

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: No, it's just that -- I think that would be great, if that could be true. And if those forces in the Arab world or the Kurds believe that the United States is actually going to fight with them when something got tough, then actually that might be able to work. But what happened on Tuesday and Ramadi is there, are reports that the Anbar tribal leaders were screaming for our help and we didn't help them. So it is hard to have allies in the region if they don't think we are going to have their back or if we are going to continue to say, oh, this is just a temporary setback and everything is fine. I think there is an overwhelming consensus emerging in Washington and that is that there needs to be a change in the direction. And I think President Obama should take some confidence in that and be able to make the pivot and just to know that he would be supported to do so.

The last thing I would point out is that this is a bigger problem is another thing Secretary Gates says, which is that we have no Mideast policy at all. While ISIS is growing and building a safe haven, they are able to have a bigger training ground. There are reports that because ISIS, for some reason has some ability to govern, so they are picking up the trash on time. Things are starting to work in the cities that they've taken over. People start to adapt to that. Now the training ground gets bigger. Women, if you look at Nina Easton, from Fortune magazine and our Fox News contributor, she wrote a piece called, how ISIS is recruiting women and turning them into brutal enforcers. It is chilling. In addition you have, people from all over the world now being called to come to Syria and fight with ISIS. We might not have time to get enough Arab boots on the ground and confidence that they are not going to flee.

GUILFOYLE: You're absolutely right. And then -- Greg, you know Eric, brings about carbon bombing, sounds nice except you have civilians and everybody else in there. You've got some U.S. forces as well, so we have to do targeted specific strikes, you need intelligence on the ground to be able to do that. So that ISIS doesn't like slide right in during a sandstorm and take over Ramadi, you know Anbar province, 30 percent of U.S. casualties were there or more.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: But the mistake you're making, Kimberly, is you're talking about winning.


GUTFELD: And remember this is --

GUILFOYLE: I tend do that.

GUTFELD: Remember, this is not about winning or losing. Susan Rice said it all, she said, we've ended two wars responsibly. Ended is value relative, it's like Manny saying to fight with Mayweather, he ended it. No, you lost. So they -- they don't believe in winning. They think winning is somehow unsavory and linked to the past. It's a country run by this mentality that it was born and bred from '60s and the '70s, preferring to end not win because win makes you sound imperialistic. So, the real problem here is that this is never gonna end. This will never end. Movements respond to a vacuum. A moral vacuum, a power vacuum and a value vacuum. America use to provide all of that, but America is now pullback we disowned. Sadly, our leadership has disowned our own patriotism because it linked itself to unsavory past. They linked it to things like racism and slavery and Vietnam. So if you talk about patriotism or nationalism, somehow that is bad. There is no longer any American identity that fuels this kind of energy that would fight evil. We now have a generation of untethered (ph) men and basically, an ambivalent nation. We have an ambivalent nation when we look over there and we go, it's not our fight. Well, guess what, it is our fight. It was our moral imperative to get, to fight genocide and we are seeing genocide but we're not because we're ambivalent and we don't think we're the country that we used to be. The country we used to be would do something.

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: That was like -- the only thing, the only thing you missed was your climate control business. You're mad about that, but I must say --

GUTFELD: What was wrong with what I said, Juan?

WILLIAMS: Well, I tell you --

GUTFELD: You can totally dismiss (ph) what I said --

WILLIAMS: No, no, no, but let me tell you --

GUTFELD: But do it intellectually.

WILLIAMS: I will, I'm glad to, let me, give me a shot here. But I think that what you're missing is the idea that military force is not the way to win this. And you have got to say --

GUTFELD: It is. It's the way to win war.

WILLIAMS: No. Hold on. I think that --

PERINO: What? They don't think --

WILLIAMS: What you're dealing with here is a different situation. You're dealing with a non-state actor. You're dealing with a country, Iraq that is ridden by sectarian, divisions that are thousands of years old. So you can go in there and you can smash and destroy it, but they're gonna have to at some point put this puzzle back together.

GUTFELD: That, that is --

WILLIAMS: And that's up to them. Let me finish my point. And then you go and you say, oh, the United States isn't doing enough. You again, the United States has 3,000 people on the ground, 2,000 air strikes, destroyed 5,000 targets. There is a larger effort here to rebuild Iraq, to give them the ability to do it. But we aren't Iraqis and we shouldn't be in the business of nation --

GUILFOYLE: You, you keep saying the same numbers --

GUTFELD: This is about winning wars and not ending them, Juan.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. As long as he keeps saying the same numbers --

WILLIAMS: We can win --

GUILFOYLE: So as the numbers are losing numbers, Juan.

WILLIAMS: But what does it mean to you --

GUTFELD: Well, we did win --

GUILFOYLE: That's the problem.

GUTFELD: We did win and then allowed the victory to turn into a lost.

WILLIAMS: Oh, how did we win? How do win, Greg?

PERINO: I don't think that anyone will say --

GUTFELD: Did you look at Iraq?


BOLLING: A war, Juan. GUTFELD: Before what happened was left?

WILLIAMS: So in other words, we win, we say victory and what did they -- mission accomplished and what happens? They go back and start tearing everything apart --


GUTFELD: We're still in country. GUILFOYLE: Who, who is the one that pulled out prematurely?


GUILFOYLE: Your team.

WILLIAMS: That's wrong.

GUILFOYLE: Your team. It was like let's get out, who cares about the status report agreement.

WILLIAMS: Who said it? Who finds the status report --

GUILFOYLE: Oh, please.

WILLIAMS: Agreement and said the United States was pulling out completely? --

GUILFOYLE: It's unbelievable.

WILLIAMS: That was the Bush administration.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. And you know what? And although the lives, OK, that were lost over there and we were doing something incredible to help the people of Iraq and secure the Middle East, but no, let's just forget about that. Let's pull out prematurely, leave a mess --

WILLIAMS: Prematurely?

GUILFOYLE: And basically leave to the life -- the rise of ISIS.

WILLIAMS: You know this is what --

GUILFOYLE: That's what we are dealing with right now.

WILLIAMS: You are fighting the last war and you're losing the last war. And anybody who wants to follow that formula again is a formula for failure.

GUTFELD: Well, what about all the countries that we stated after war that we help.

PERINO: That is so irresponsible.

GUILFOYLE: Yes it is. It really is. It's so irresponsible.


GUILFOYLE: And you keep saying the same numbers over and over again.

WILLIAMS: You want to send, you want to send our kids --

GUILFOYLE: Those numbers haven't produced the right result.

WILLIAMS: You want to send that kids back again?

GUILFOYLE: Oh, gosh.

BOLLING: Can I just -- to point out that Juan, that's hit on one important aspect of the whole thing is that there is no pride in Iraq within the Iraqi people.


BOLLING: They don't care about the country staying Iraq, sovereign Iraq.

PERINO: That's not true.

BOLLING: They care --

PERINO: That is not true, Eric.

(CROSSTALK) BOLLING: They are divided among Sunni, Shia and --

WILLIAMS: Absolutely.

BOLLING: More so than they are --

PERINO: When they -- when we left (inaudible) --

BOLLING: At the border of Iraq.

PERINO: When the administration left in 2009, after General Petraeus and Ryan Crocker had their joint military and political solution, that country was intact and the Iraqi just want to be to together --

BOLLING: I'm not, I'm not questioning them. I'm questioning the 2015, not 2009.

PERINO: You just said, but -- how do you keep -- you can't keep them together if you pull out troops and the political thing at the same time.

WILLIAMS: But what - who pull out the troops? --

PERINO: I think if you support President Obama --

WILLIAMS: Who, who signed, who signed the deal --

PERINO: You should win a new strategy because we own this.

WILLIAMS: Who signed the deal saying no more Americans?

GUILFOYLE: He does own this. That is hand it off to Clinton, that's gonna be a real fail.

WILLIAMS: What do you say? I'm saying who signed the deal saying, no more Americans, that was the Bush administration.

PERINO: Over a longer period of time, Juan.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. Who took the pole out of the center of the tent?

WILLIAMS: Oh, here we go.

PERINO: My, God.

GUILFOYLE: Not me? All right.

WILLIAMS: You know you guys have to blame Obama. You can't even --

PERINO: We're trying to help Obama. If you support Obama you should want him to have a new strategy.

WILLIAMS: I support America and America --

PERINO: Because his strategy is losing.

WILLIAMS: It can't be held responsible for building every nation on the globe.

GUTFELD: We aren't.

WILLIAMS: Well then why do you want us back in there?


GUTFELD: Because that was a war that was one, that - and because of personal feelings about a previous administration, it was allowed to be lost.

GUILFOYLE: And administration that banned the phrase, American exceptionalism. You want more of that in 2016? When we returns, could we finally be close to finding out the answer to who push the video. A talking point on Benghazi -- Greg has it right. Setting new revelations in the Clinton e-mail of (inaudible) next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BOLLING: The answer to two pushed the video points on talking points on Benghazi may finally be answer, according to New York Times, if the first batch of e-mails leak to the paper, the day after the attacks in Benghazi. Clinton ally Sidney Blumenthal sent Hillary was sent a memo saying the attacks were quote, "By demonstrators is the worst inspired by what devout Libyans review as a sac-religious internet video on the Prophet Mohammad, Originating in America." Remember, just two days ago, Hillary defended, her quote, "Important relationship with Blumenthal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF STATE: I always think that it's important when you get into politics, to have friends you had before you were in politics. And to understand what is on their minds. And he has been a friend of mine for a long time. I think you do have to work to make sure you are not caught in a bubble and you only hear from a certain small group of people and I'm gonna keep talking to my old friend, whoever they are.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BOLLING: Oh, Greg, we finally found out who pushed --

GUTFELD: I know.

BOLLING: After short --

GUTFELD: Short years.

BOLLING: Blumenthal --

GUTFELD: Getting foreign policy tips from Sidney Blumenthal is like getting cooking tips from Jeffrey Dahmer. This guy is --

GUILFOYLE: Terrible.

GUTFELD: Anyway, OK. The point isn't now that it was a lie. That is that they wanted to believe the lie. They wanted a story that took the responsibility from them and from the actual terrorists and put it on our, somehow it's on us. It's on speech and therefore, you know, we're the bid - - we are the bad guys here. I wrote the sequence of events for this to be true. Like if this -- if President Obama and Hillary Clinton thought this happened because of the video, for that to happen, this is what had to happen. A large group of well-meaning Muslim men are on YouTube, they are looking for cat videos or something or maybe they're parkour (ph) videos and they could stumble across the innocence of Muslims. Which by the way, nobody has seen, there was no, there was no viewings, but somehow they saw it. So these guys who are probably all hardworking dentists and accountants, suddenly they can go out and they riot, they destroy things because of this video. They've never rioted before. This just magically happened. Then after the attack of Benghazi, when our guy, when our guys were killed, they stopped rioting and they go back to their jobs as barbers and as accountants, yeah, and welders and appliance salesman.

PERINO: Community organizers.

GUTFELD: Yeah, as community organizers. It was just a weird eruption that occurred --


GUTFELD: Because of the video that nobody saw.



BOLLING: With all with Sidney Blumenthal left out of that e-mail, the Hillary Clinton about pushing the video was the wink, the wink, wink.

GUILFOYLE: I know. I mean, -- but again, is this gonna resonate. If we can like poll test what is going to happen - what? Four, five days from now, is this gonna affect her numbers? People should care, but will they? Are they so invested in this beauty, in this outcome, that they are going to shed all ethics, morality and logic and just put it in again?

BOLLING: Dana, your thoughts?

PERINO: Well, I think this is an interesting piece. President Obama, at the beginning of the administration told Hillary Clinton under no uncertain terms that what should Sidney Blumenthal be a part of this administration. He doesn't want a thing of it. She (inaudible) the Clinton Foundation, pays him a fee, while he is getting money from corporate interest in Libya and he start sending intelligence memos to Hillary Clinton that then she passes on to the White House and President Obama buys the lie that Hilary -- that Sidney Blumenthal sent to Hillary Clinton.

BOLLING: Buy is the lie then makes a video, a Facebook video that they air in the Middle East, apologizing for the video, Juan.

GUILFOYLE: And for that?

BOLLING: So Sidney -- you know we all thought Valarie Jarrett was a puppet master? Maybe Sidney Blumenthal was a puppet master.

WILLIAMS: Well, I think Dana just nailed it.

(CROSSTALK) WILLIAMS: I just think that -- you know, this is a lot about Sidney, someone I know because he used to be a reporter at the Post when I was a reporter at the Post and Sidney has always been this kind of guy who wants to get his hand a little deeper and you will think for a normal reporter that he wants to be one of the players. And in this case, I think that his relationship with Hillary was what elevated him and then he starts with the business of course, of trying to influence things and do business deals and that's why the Obama White House, as Dana just explained, wanted no part of it. That he was seeing as someone who was -- maybe not devious but certainly, mischievous, and certainly not someone that could be control that would be truly working --

PERINO: Unsavory.

WILLIAMS: And patriotic in working for the administration.


(CROSSTALK) WILLIAMS: But I must say, I just think you guys are, you know, look, you're right on a lot of this, but to draw some kind of, you know, like dots connected, it's like that's why this thing came out with Susan Rice --

(CROSSTALK) WILLIAMS: That's little much.

(CROSSTALK) GUILFOYLE: We can (inaudible) .

BOLLING: OK. Can you want --

GUILFOYLE: And mischievously too nice (inaudible) . That's like a child who is being like wayward, you know, playing --

WILLIAMS: But Kimberly, I try to behave myself.


BOLLING: Can I ask Greg? Greg, Sidney Blumenthal --

(CROSSTALK) BOLLING: It's in his best interest that Hillary Clinton stays clean. Her hands stay clean of the whole Benghazi affair.

GUTFELD: Absolutely. But now we know why, and it is, the connecting of the dots, that's how life is, you connect the dots, there's nothing --

WILLIAMS: No, no. no, but you got it -- GUTFELD: That's what reporters do.

WILLIAMS: No, no, no, I'm fine with connecting the dots --


WILLIAMS: But I'm saying there is no -- at this point, there's a lot of, there is more than speculation. We know that you know --


WILLIAMS: From Mike Morell and the CIA and others about how Susan Rice ended up saying what she sounds -- if that's what you're asking.


BOLLING: And those dots happened to have been connected.

WILLIAMS: Right. But it is not, it is not Sidney Blumenthal, that's all I'm saying.


GUTFELD: Then who is it?

(CROSSTALK) WILLIAMS: It must. It must.

BOLLING: All right. We will gonna leave it right there.

Coming up, the grand jury --

GUILFOYLE: (inaudible) .

BOLLING: Has just indicted. It is just indicted. All six police officers charged in the death of Freddie Gray in Baltimore. We had the Breaking News ahead.


GUTFELD: Watching the coverage of David Letterman's farewell is like observing a tired parade of famous names passing by an open casket. It's great press, but coming from me, an early addict of the show, it misses Letterman's initial appeal.

The show was never about the famous stars but the subversion of the format with odd ball characters and brave writing. So forget Alec Baldwin or Madonna or Drew Barrymore, but don't forget Crispin Glover.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CRISPIN GLOVER, ACTOR: I'm strong, you know. I'm strong. I can arm wrestle. Do you want to arm wrestle?


GLOVER: I'm taking --

(LAUGHTER) GLOVER: No, I'm taking to use the arm line. I can, I can, I can kick.

(LAUGHTER) LETTERMAN: OK. I'm gonna go check on the top 10.

(LAUGHTER) (END VIDEO CLIP) (LAUGHTER) GUTFELD: But remember those who really made the show great early on? There was Brother Theodore, Larry "Bud" Melman and all the stupid pets. But the real star, the no one that no one mention was Chris Elliott.

Chris Elliott, Chris Elliott, Chris Elliott. I say his name over and over to make up for its absence elsewhere. Elliott made the show a surreal gift in the early days, playing three unforgettable characters. the conspiracy guy?


LETTERMAN: What can we do for you, Chris?

CHRIS ELLIOTT, ACTOR: Actually, I'd like to know a little bit more about the conspiracy, if you don't mind.

(LAUGHTER) LETTERMAN: I'm not, I'm not sure I understand.

ELLIOTT: Yeah, I thought you'd say that. You know exactly what I'm talking about. I'm talking about Shafer and the shredded documents. I'm talking about Wendell and the laundered money. I'm talking about Connie Chung's secret committee.



GUTFELD: And of course, there was the panicky guy.


ELLIOTT: I got to get the hell out of here. I want to live. I don't want to die. I'm too young to die. Get the hell out of my way!


GUTFELD: And my favorite, the guy under the seats.


LETTERMAN: Chris, come on up here.

ELLIOTT: You know something, mister? One of these days, you're going to wake up on the roller coaster in Chris Elliott Land. And I'm going to be running the brake lever. But until then, I'll be right here, making your life a living hell.


GUTFELD: So in these fond remembrances of Letterman's great run, let's not forget who made it so original at the start. And let's face it: The more famous the faces got on Letterman, the more bored he became.

So let's raise a toast to one legend who made the show so innovative and strangely wonderful. It's what the world needs more of now, the eternal "Cabin Boy," Chris Elliott.

Anybody here an early Letterman fan? Like back in the early '80s? No?

PERINO: I had a bed time. I mean, I wasn't allowed to get up...

WILLIAMS: I didn't know he had a morning show.

GUTFELD: Yes. The morning show started -- I think it lasted six weeks, maybe. Or maybe three months.

WILLIAMS: He said last night that anybody who was a fan of the morning show, psychoanalysis is available.

GUTFELD: It was a great show.


GUTFELD: It was just at the wrong time.

GUILFOYLE: Bolling did.

BOLLING: No, he was really innovative. Right, Greg? He tried things that no other late-night talk-show host would. Remember stupid pet tricks. Remember stupid human -- that was Letterman, right?

GUTFELD: Yes, yes.

BOLLING: Remember he dropped stuff off the top of the building?

GUTFELD: Yes, yes, yes. Watermelons.

BOLLING: Couple of quick numbers: 9.3 million watched it last night. His highest number since ten years ago when Oprah appeared in 2005. Jay Leno's farewell, 14.6 million. And don't forget: Stephen Colbert comes in September. I think he's going to do a good job with this one.

GUTFELD: Yes. Got to figure out which Stephen Colbert that will be.

BOLLING: The real one?


BOLLING: Stephen Colbert.

GUTFELD: I don't know.

WILLIAMS: I have a question for you.


WILLIAMS: Because I think you really know a lot about comedy.

GUTFELD: Fooled you.

WILLIAMS: So Leno or Letterman?

GUTFELD: Letterman was way more original. Leno was more of a working man's comic but Letterman was a cerebral.

WILLIAMS: Well, I've got to tell you, I always thought Letterman was...

GUILFOYLE: What about the rest of them?

WILLIAMS: ... more creative. Who are you thinking?

GUILFOYLE: Like Jimmy Kimmel.

WILLIAMS: Oh, no, those. That's kind of a new generation. I was talking about legacy.




WILLIAMS: Fallon, yes. I think those are the new guys.

GUTFELD: Johnny Carson.

Look, now we're splitting into three groups. There was the old guard of Carson who introduces to Letterman. And you've got the new guard of the Kimmels and the Fallons.

But I thought it was -- what I liked about Letterman was he was so anti- celebrity. And then when he became kind of enamored with -- or not enamored, but when he starting getting more popular and having famous names, he became crotchety and more kind of, like -- I don't know, he wasn't as interested or interesting as he was in the beginning. I don't know. Nobody cares.

WILLIAMS: No, I thought he would take more risk early on.


WILLIAMS: And that's why, I think when I like -- when I'm out west in L.A. or even New York, I think people tune in more to Letterman than they did to what you call the working guy's comic, Leno.


WILLIAMS: Because Leno is kind of like, what do you take to go to sleep? You know? It's just like, OK.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh.

WILLIAMS: Not that I don't like him. I'm just saying, I thought Letterman was kind of edgy at times. Letterman would do stuff like, you're like, "What is going on here?"

And you know, I thought it was telling. Bill Murray is the most -- I think Regis Philbin was on the most. But Bill Murray was the first. And there he was last night in the lineup of the last ten people was Bill Murray. Who's another edgy character.


GUTFELD: Yes, he was. No longer with us, though. It was interesting. I don't know where they found these people.

BOLLING: What about the deli guy next door?

WILLIAMS: I loved that.

GUTFELD: Rupert, the deli owner? Yes.

GUILFOYLE: Dana and I were in bed after "Little House on the Prairie."

GUTFELD: No, no, no. She was in "Little House on the Prairie."

PERINO: No, you've mistaken me for Melissa Francis.

GUTFELD: Melissa Francis played Dana Perino in "Little House on the Prairie."

BOLLING: Future for her.

GUTFELD: Exactly.

GUILFOYLE: And on "The Five."

GUTFELD: And on "The Five."

All right. Coming up, the manhunt intensifies for the suspect wanted in connection with a brutal quadruple murder. Police don't think it was a random crime. Greta Van Susteren joins us with the details next.


PERINO: It's been ten years since Natalee Holloway vanished during a high- school graduation trip on the Caribbean island of Aruba. After a decade, the search for clues into the Alabama teen's mysterious disappearance continues. Greta Van Susteren returned to the island with Natalee's mother, Beth Holloway, to investigate the twists in the case. Take a look.


GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST, "ON THE RECORD": No parent should send a child off, you know, on a vacation and have this happen. And so many parents are watching. And I know parents -- I know they'll be happy to see you're doing OK. You're doing well, better than OK.

BETH HOLLOWAY, NATALEE'S MOTHER: Well, I've lived every parent's worst nightmare. And I'm the parent that nobody want to be. But I've done the best I could to reach out to others, and to deliver that message of hope and a personal thank you message so hopefully their loved ones can be safe when traveling.


PERINO: Greta joins us with more. Greta, could you tell us a little bit about the special and what you -- what we can expect to see tomorrow night?

VAN SUSTEREN: Well, Dana, first of all, we've been like a dog and a bone on this story. It's been ten years, and we haven't given up. In fact, I've flown all over the world chasing this case down on weekends. I've been to Peru. I've been to Thailand. I've been all around the world multiple times, to Aruba.

We went back with Beth to try to once again, you know, reinvestigate the case, look at clues.

I think the most telling thing about it is one of the -- one of the big stories recently has been debunked. There's a story where a guy came out and said that he'd observed Joran carrying Natalee. That's been debunked. We want to go back and just check that out.

But the big thing is Beth Holloway. The journey Beth Holloway has taken, because everybody knows Beth Holloway, but how do you -- how does your child disappear and how do you deal with it? And how does she feel now?

And I guess what I -- what struck me the most is she's so glad he's in prison, in Peru, unfortunately for another murder, which she feels deeply saddened by, but at least he's off the streets, so to speak. But she still hasn't gotten justice for her daughter. But she's still pursuing it. But where she is on this is actually the most, to me, the riveting part about this.

PERINO: And Greta, you also have an update for us on the D.C. quadruple murder that you've been following very closely. There is breaking news in that tonight. Where do -- where does that stand.

VAN SUSTEREN: Well, the culprit may be in your neck of the woods, up in New York where you are. This is a very strange case. I'm not convinced that he did this alone, because look -- and you know the neighborhood, Dana. You've lived down here. Is that this happened about two blocks from the vice president's house, about six blocks from former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's Washington home. And there are no subway stops. There are no bus stops. Somehow he got there, managed to terrorize three adults, one child, and then he took the Porsche and left. So it sounds like there's somebody else there.

But what the police did is they have pinged the girlfriend of this guy, and they found her in some fast-food restaurant in New York. And they picked her up, and now they're looking for him. There's an all-points bulletin out for him, but they want him.

But I would not be surprised if there was somebody else involved. He couldn't have gotten in that house by himself. He probably didn't walk there. No bus stop, no subway, no other car. I wouldn't be surprised if there's more DNA on that pizza, which of course, led the police to him.

PERINO: Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, Greta, this case seems to be rapidly developing now, and especially with the forensics involved, which as a prosecutor I just love. You've got to get people's DNA stored in the system. They were able to get a positive hit, identify this guy right away before he even does further harm.

But motive keeps coming to mind here. It is very peculiar. And I agree with you, it seems that he perhaps had some kind of accessory, accomplice working with him.

VAN SUSTEREN: Yes. And apparently, $40,000 in cash that was delivered that morning, Thursday morning to the house is not there now. When the police arrived or the fire department put out the fire, the cash was gone. It seems like this may have been a hit job for $40,000. Killing four people for $40,000. Incredible.

BOLLING: Greta, this guy left so many clues. I would think by the end of your show that they're going to find this guy. Wouldn't you think?

VAN SUSTEREN: Oh, his picture is plastered all over. I suspect everybody in Brooklyn is looking for this guy. Look, you can't -- at some point, you can't run. Somebody's going to turn you in. There's going to be some reward somebody wants.

But I'm telling you, the thing that I'm looking for is who else? You know, find this guy. And I hope this guy isn't one of those jerks that wants to go out in a blaze of glory and harms police officers in the process. But he has to know everybody wants him. He can't go to his girlfriend. His family's pleaded for him to turn himself in. He's got no place to turn to at this point, except his best advice would be for him to turn himself into the police. Once he does that, though, he's got to answer to four first- degree murder charges right here in D.C.


WILLIAMS: Greta, isn't there possibly a bigger story about the business that the victim, the man, was in and whether or not this murder, as you were suggesting, is somehow tied to somebody paying this guy to commit this horrific act?

VAN SUSTEREN: That's always possible, Juan. The only way we're going to find that out is once they take this guy into custody and see if he wants to talk. You know, he may want to talk at some point. We don't have the death penalty here in D.C., which prosecutors, as Kimberly would tell you, often use as sort of leverage to get more information out of somebody.

But I'm not sure that there's anything that they can do to pry this information out of this guy, because he's got such horrendous charges pending against him. But he's going to be the source of most information.

But Juan, the thing is, you may be on to something. Because how did he get there?


VAN SUSTEREN: How did he get to this house? And Juan, you live down here. You know this. You know it's six blocks from Hillary Clinton's house. Four blocks from Vice President Biden's. This is not...

WILLIAMS: No, it's not.

VAN SUSTEREN: I mean, this is not a neighborhood easy to get to unless you have a car.

WILLIAMS: No. It's -- it's pretty -- in that sense, it's right in the middle of things, but it's fairly isolated and it's very, very upper class.

VAN SUSTEREN: Very, very upper class.

PERINO: Greg, do you have a last question for Greta?

GUTFELD: I mean, I don't -- isn't this a fairly common crime these days, where people scope out a wealthy person. They follow their schedule. They go to the house. They go in and they say, "OK, you're going to the bank. You're going to get this money or your family gets it." The 40 grand was all they could get. They probably wanted more. Hasn't that -- this sounds very familiar. This has happened recently, hasn't there?

VAN SUSTEREN: I suppose -- I suppose that would make some neighbors feel a little bit better is that there seems to be a connection. That it's not just random, where he didn't say, "OK, this house will do. I'll follow this person."


VAN SUSTEREN: There seems to be some connection to the business. So I think the neighbors probably feel a little better tonight that there's not going to be a knock at their door or someone with a gas tank full of gasoline to set them on fire, too. So I suppose that you know, unfortunately, Greg, there's an awful lot of murders around this country.


GUILFOYLE: Reminds me a little bit of the Connecticut case, the Petit family.

GUTFELD: Right. Exactly.

VAN SUSTEREN: You're right. It does.


PERINO: All right. Thank you, Greta.

VAN SUSTEREN: Thank you.

PERINO: Don't miss a double feature of Greta crime specials: "Greta Investigates: The Natalee Holloway Mystery, 10 Years Later." Tomorrow night at 7 p.m. Eastern.

And also, "On the Record" special, "Deadly Affair: Pamela Smart in Her Own Words" on Monday at 7 p.m. Eastern.

And up next, breaking news in the Freddie Gray case. The grand jury has just indicted all six Baltimore police officers that were charged. We react after the break.


WILLIAMS: This is a FOX News alert. Baltimore city state attorney Marilyn Mosby has just announced that a grand jury in Baltimore has indicted all six officers in the April death of Freddie Gray. She did not explain the charges. She said they are, though, consistent with what she first announced three weeks ago -- Eric.

BOLLING: Very interesting. The grand jury -- K.G., you can help me with this one -- the grand jury found almost identical to what Mosby asked for. Can you talk about the depraved heart murder, which seems to be the most serious charge?

GUILFOYLE: OK. So that's the heaviest charge. It's a second-degree murder, and it's based on the implied malice murder theory. Intent does not have to be specific. If you do something and you act in a way that is conscious disregard for known risk that's likely to result in great bodily injury or death.

WILLIAMS: And this was the driver?

GUILFOYLE: That will be the driving.

WILLIAMS: The driver.

GUILFOYLE: And if you drove in a way that you know could cause injury or death and could result in the death of someone, the jury will imply malice on your part. It's used to call it the old days like, abandoned heart, depraved heart murder. So that's the theory here.

WILLIAMS: We'll see how it goes. Now Dana, the question is, does this hold up? You know, they say you can indict a ham sandwich. OK. So Mosby get the indictment, but does the indictment hold and actually go to trial?

PERINO: I've been watching Megyn Kelly's show this week, and in particular last night, she raised a lot of questions that I think show that this case could be in trouble. She's a lawyer, Kimberly's a lawyer. So I would look to them for expertise. But it seems to me that at least it's shaky on some level.

WILLIAMS: Yes. So Greg, what you've got here, then, is a situation where the police have said -- in fact, the police have gone and tried to get Mosby dismissed, thrown out of these thing, because of some of the political statements that she has made. Do you think that Mosby has lost her standing as an -- as the, you know, attorney for -- the prosecutor in this case?

GUTFELD: No. She's incredibly popular right now, especially among the media. This indictment did not happen in a vacuum. This indictment was influenced by looting and the rioting and political motivations. It -- she has do this because she's popular. This has -- this has made her career.

WILLIAMS: Popular is not the word. Now, you know, I'm going to ask you this, because I think that you have done prosecutions. She remembers...

GUILFOYLE: In fact, I have.

WILLIAMS: Yes. She got on stage with Prince. I mean, I thought this was a political act.

GUILFOYLE: This is not in any way how I would conduct myself or any of the prosecutors that I know in the entire country.

But nevertheless, she seems to have a stage and a voice that I think you are supposed to be impartial and not behave in a way that could show that you perhaps might be biased. You're supposed to seek justice and truth, wherever that leads you.

There's cases that I had that I investigated that I said, there's insufficient evidence or we have reasonable doubt with respect to the guilt of the defendant.

You're not supposed to just proceed forward unless you really feel there's a compelling case with evidence to support it. And you should refrain from making statements that could sway potential jurors out there.

If I'm the cops in this case, depending, I may ask my attorney to file a change of venue motion so that they can get, you know, a fair trial. But keep in mind, this is the indictment. There's a long way to go before there are convictions, if any, in this case. And facts to shake out.

WILLIAMS: See, that's an important point, and we'll see where it goes from here. But this is not the end of the story.

GUTFELD: Right. July 2 arraignment for all of them.

WILLIAMS: "One More Thing" coming at us. Stay with us, please.


GUILFOYLE: It's time now for "One More Thing." OK, me, I'll go. I've got a good one. You'll like this. It's about bowling, and Gutfeld will like this.

So James Goggin (ph), 49 years old, was heading to dialysis treatment with his wife when he said a young man walked up to him and tried to carjack him. Listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you really want to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) do this? This guy had a gun on me. I've got the gun on him. And I don't want to kill this kid, but I'm going home.


GUILFOYLE: And he did not shoot him. And then people wrote in, and said, if you're going pull it, use it. Why didn't you shoot him? So he was actually getting criticism. Juan's looking at me crazy.

WILLIAMS: No. This happened to my wife about a year ago. A guy came and carjacked her. Anyway, she's OK, so don't worry.


WILLIAMS: Anyway, can we go on?

GUTFELD: That's a story.

GUILFOYLE: She should have pulled a gun on him.

BOLLING: The anti-gun guy.

WILLIAMS: Let me -- this is the craziest thing. So Delice says to me, says to the cops at the gas station, "I wish I had..." The cop says, "You can't say that to me." And I said, "Delice, why are you telling a cop that?" Because she can get arrested for that. Anyway.

PERINO: She says that she wished she had a gun?

WILLIAMS: I don't want to get into it. I didn't say a thing. I did not say a word.

GUILFOYLE: Take your time.

WILLIAMS: OK. All right. So anyway, last Saturday, I was in New Hampshire, at Franklin Pierce University. I got an honorary degree in humane letters.


WILLIAMS: And delivered the commencement address. Let me tell you, Andy Card, the former Bush White House chief of staff, is now president of Franklin Pierce, and there were so many FOX fans. Of course, they love "The Five."

And they were all out to help me celebrate a wonderful day of graduation for so many deserving, you know, wonderful young people. I can't say how inspiring it is to see the class of 2015.

GUILFOYLE: Aw. Congratulations, Juan. Very nice.

GUTFELD: Franklin Pierce.


GUTFELD: Just saying.

GUILFOYLE: Next, I'm so relaxed. Dana.

PERINO: OK. There's tragic development in the word of women's fashion. Kimberly, I don't think that you're not -- you might be OK with this. Wall Street Journal, personal journal section today, headline: "Is it OK to wear nude hose again?"


GUTFELD: How dare you?

PERINO: Apparently, because Kate Middleton of the royals, right, the duchess of Cambridge, she apparently wears them everywhere. And I thought that as women, I thought that we had gotten past this.

GUILFOYLE: I'm wearing them right now. Look at this.

PERINO: One of our best accomplishments. We didn't have to wear them anymore. And now because of you guys, they're coming back.

GUILFOYLE: Look at how beautiful.

PERINO: But I will not succumb.

GUILFOYLE: Silky sheer.

GUTFELD: I'm in favor of nude hose.

GUILFOYLE: All right, Greg. Greg wears them, too. He keeps taking mine?

PERINO: Are you?

GUTFELD: Yes, I'm for everybody to wear whatever they want.

GUILFOYLE: I'm trying to get him to go.


What's wrong with this place?

GUTFELD: Oh, I'm on "O'Reilly." I forgot. I'm on "O'Reilly." What has happened? All right. Tonight. And then there's this.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh.


GUTFELD: Greg's Celebrity Corner.


GUTFELD: All right, Alec Baldwin's electricity went out in his expensive apartment, so he thought he would go out and fix it himself. Take a look.




GUTFELD: Got up there, you know. He couldn't figure out which one belonged to his apartment and then got a little nervous. But thankfully, the little birds were there to help him out. And now they're living together in Park Slope (ph). I don't know.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

GUTFELD: What happened?


BOLLING: Ran out of time. Just look this up. Carrie Roscoe, 29-year-old Omaha police officer, lost her life yesterday. The very next day she was supposed -- the next day she was going to be on maternity leave. She gave birth to premature baby in February. She went back to work, lost her life by -- at the hands of a gang member.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God. That's terrible.

BOLLING: Just look the story up. Again, cops. Want to give them their due every time you can.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Set your DVR. Never miss an episode of "The Five." Bye.

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