North Carolina governor vetoes bill requiring police cooperation with ICE on illegal immigrants

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North Carolina governor vetoes bill requiring police cooperation with ICE on illegal immigrants

Rockingham County, North Carolina Sheriff Sam Page says politics should not be more important than public safety.

This is a rush transcript from "Your World," August 22, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

CHARLES PAYNE, ANCHOR: President Trump taking some flak after walking back plans for tax cuts. He says the economy is strong, so we don't need them.

Why former Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker says, don't dismiss them too quickly. He says tax cuts are exactly what's needed to keep this economy on track.

Welcome, everyone. I'm Charles Payne, in for Neil Cavuto. And this is "Your World."

The governor in a moment, but first to Rich Edson at the White House, where the president is doubling down on those economy comments -- Rich.

RICH EDSON, CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good afternoon, Charles.

And the president says the economy is strong enough and therefore there is no need for a payroll tax cut. This week alone, he said the United States and his administration were considering it, and then he ruled it out.

The issue with the payroll tax is that it funds the Social Security trust funds that are expected to or projected to go dry by 2035. The president then turned his focus to the Federal Reserve this morning, tweeting -- quote -- "The economy is doing really well. The Federal Reserve can easily make it record-setting. The question is being asked, why are we paying much more in interest than Germany and certain other countries? Be early for a change, not late. Let America win big, rather than just win."

The president has lamented that, during the Obama administration, the Federal Reserve kept the Fed Funds Rate historically low, making money cheaper to borrow. That, of course, was after a major financial crisis.

Also at the White House this afternoon, the president honors NBA legend Bob Cousy with the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the highest civilian honor that the nation awards. In announcing the decision, the White House says - - quote -- "Off the court, Mr. Cousy fought racism and became a leader for racial equality in and beyond the league. He was also instrumental in the creation of the NBA Players Association."

Cousy told NBA.com he's trying not to make this visit political. He says he's just happy to be celebrated and honored here at the White House at this point in his life -- Charles.

PAYNE: Refreshing. Thank you very much, Rich.

Well, my next guest says that sweeping tax reform is needed to help Americans keep more of their own hard-earned money and also to create jobs.

Former Wisconsin Republican Governor Scott Walker is honorary chairman of the Institute for Reforming Government, which authored the report.

Governor, thanks for joining us.

SCOTT WALKER, R-WIS., FORMER GOVERNOR: Hey, great to be with you, Charles. Glad to have you filling in.

PAYNE: Hey. You know, thank you.

So, President Trump and the administration, they're always thinking, like any administration, how can we goose this economy a little bit? He let it out there, OK, maybe indexing capital gains, maybe payroll tax cuts.

Some are seeing that as is a flip-flop. I think he just tossed some ideas out there. But they're not bad ideas. And you, in fact, think that states should be the ones that should be looking at lower taxes.

WALKER: Absolutely.

I mean, the -- President Trump, just like President Reagan did -- in fact, last week, would have been -- was August 13, 1981, is when Ronald Reagan signed the first Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981. They did it again in '86. And we saw the economic benefits to that go beyond just his administration, into the Bush administration and ultimately continued even in the '90s under Bill Clinton's administration.

I think the tax cuts that this president and the Republican Congress passed a few years ago, the president signed continue to be good, but you can do more. In Wisconsin, we cut taxes by more than $8 billion, reducing the burden on the hardworking people in the state and small business owners and farmers and others.

And we saw last year more people working in the state than ever before. It's simple. Put more money into people's hands, they're going to put it back in the economy.

PAYNE: Ideally. This report, what are the features? What are the key stock -- I mean, sorry, tax cuts, rather, that would be good for any state...

WALKER: Yes.

PAYNE: ... and really achieve these goals that you're talking about?

WALKER: Well, it's a combination of things.

Certainly, first and foremost, you want to make sure not just in the short term, but the over the long haul, you put the taxpayers in charge. All too often, sometimes, one of the fears people have, even when a tax comes around, is it going to be made permanent? Is this something that sticks around, or is the government going to pull that money back in?

And so letting the taxpayers be the ones that not only see the benefits of the tax relief, but putting in place real reforms. For example, we did it in Wisconsin. We poured more money in the schools, made historic investments in schools.

At the same time, we put tax limits on a levy, so that not only schools and local governments benefited from the state's investment. It actually drove down property taxes. Eight years after I took office, property taxes were actually lower than they were before they started, not just the growth, but the actual amount on the typical home was lower than before we started.

And that really encourages people to make those investments, not only as consumers. For a lot of small business owners and family farmers, it encourages them to make investments in employees and raise wages, which is good for the economy.

PAYNE: Right.

Governor, of course, the issue, one of the issues, of course, with the federal government and President Trump doing anything more with taxes would be these mount -- these deficits. We got to report from the CBO yesterday of the mounting federal debt.

State governments don't have the leisure of that. So is it really possible for people, skeptics out there to say, hey, we're going to lower taxes, also lower spending, and also have a positive outcome?

WALKER: Absolutely.

In fact, one of the -- we just heard that report about the president presenting the special award today. That was given to -- earlier this year to Art Laffer. We all know about the Laffer Curve back in the '80s.

Today, I call it the Kohl's curve. You go to a department store like Kohl's, you buy something on sale, you had another coupon top of that, in the end, you pull out some Kohl's cash, and it sometimes feels like they're actually paying you to buy the merchandise.

They're not, but why do they do that? Because they make money off of volume and not off of higher prices. Governments that charge high rates and have high tax brackets typically see less economic opportunity. Those that drop them, as happened during the president's term when Ronald Reagan was in office and as we're seeing under the Trump tax cuts as well...

PAYNE: Right.

WALKER: ... you lower the tax rates, you lower that -- you reduce the flat -- make it more simple in terms of the tax code itself, and those dollars go right back into the economy.

In Wisconsin, we actually saw $8 billion worth of tax relief at the same time we saw revenues continue to go up. Why? Because the economy was growing, wages were up, more people invested. And that helped put that money right back in the economy again.

PAYNE: It's really remarkable. And I would even argue the income inequality issue is worse in these high-tax states than they are low-tax states.

But I do -- I would like to switch gears with you while I have you. And I want to ask you your take on President Trump's feud with the Congresswomen Tlaib and Omar.

WALKER: Well, it's outrageous to me that the two of them -- I just was with Kevin McCarthy a couple days ago. He and a bunch of Democrats and Republicans were just in Israel not long ago. They could have gone on that trip. They didn't want this.

They knew all along they were going to be prohibited from going in there. Why? Because Israel's had a law on the books for the last few years that says, if you're out to take on Israel, if you're for the boycott, the BDS movement that's trying to boycott Israel and its companies and its employers, they don't want you there.

They knew this was going to happen. This is just a cheap political stunt to draw attention from -- away from just how extreme their positions are, not only when it comes to Israel, but, my goodness, you have got one of the two who said earlier this year that some people did something in regards to the terrorists that attacked on America 9/11.

PAYNE: Yes.

WALKER: These are extreme positions. And, unfortunately, they are becoming more and more mainstream in the socialist Democratic Party we see in America today.

PAYNE: There was also a hint or a suggestion perhaps that aid be cut off from Israel, ironically, aid that was authored under the Obama administration.

(LAUGHTER)

WALKER: Well, and not only that, but this is, by any measure, and you look at all the indexes out there, Israel is the only democracy in all the Middle East.

This is not only our ally. This is a country where religious freedoms -- I was just there in June. I was looking out over the Old City, the holy city. And you see not only the Jewish -- the Western wall. You not only see the Christian sites that matter, obviously, very much to people like myself and other Christians.

PAYNE: Right.

WALKER: But you can see the third most holiest Islamic site in the world is right there.

All of those are open to the public, no matter what faith you might have. They're just completely backwards. But this is what's happening to the socialist Democrat Party in America. They're becoming more and more and more extreme.

And I hope the voters will see that when they go to vote in November of next year.

PAYNE: Governor, speaking of voters, President Trump, the campaign now saying they're eying the Midwest and these Rust Belt states for 2020. Do you think that's a good strategy?

WALKER: Oh, absolutely.

You look at Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, even Minnesota, Iowa for sure, these are all states that have fared well over the last few years, and not only are unemployment rates at either record or near record lows.

You see it across the board, not only statewide, but as you see nationally, African-American, Latino, unemployment rates for people with disabilities, unemployment rates for veterans, all those are at the lowest they have ever been recorded.

It's particularly a benefit in agricultural and manufacturing states. And this is president standing up for those workers and standing up for farmers. And he needs to get that message out if he's going to win next November. It's going to be tough, but he can do it.

PAYNE: Governor Walker, you know about tough elections. You survived a lot of them.

(LAUGHTER)

PAYNE: Thank you very much, sir. We appreciate the -- you evangelizing low taxes and we keep more money.

WALKER: Thank you, Charles.

PAYNE: Who could argue with that?

Speaking of money, folks, let's switch our attention to Wall Street stocks, mostly in and out of positive territory all session long.

With me now, market watcher Frances Newton Stacy on where this market might be heading.

I guess all eyes on the Fed tomorrow.

FRANCES NEWTON STACY, OPTIMAL CAPITAL: All eyes on the Fed tomorrow, right?

And it doesn't help that many of the Fed officials have come out in the preceding days saying we didn't need the interest rate cut, oh, I don't know for cut in September, but maybe we should. I will have an open mind.

So, yes, a little bit of volatility today, indecision.

PAYNE: Yesterday, we got the minutes, right? So we know what was discussed in there.

And I thought it was interesting, because we had two dissenters say, oh, we don't need rate cuts. And one of them, to your point, actually giving a great interview with FBN today, and Esther George sounds like she still isn't convinced that we need rate cuts.

We learned, though, that there are two members who wanted 50 basis points. And not to get to jargony, but there are some members of the Fed who agree with President Trump that, hey, it's not that this is not a good economy, but why not make it a juggernaut?

NEWTON STACY: Totally.

And the thing is, is do you shoot the bullets that we have now, which we only have 2.5 percent in the bullets now to get ahead of the curve, because it's like -- a little bit like turning the Titanic, or do you save the bullets for when we have an actual credit crisis, which I would argue is kind of behind the curve?

And so Trump is saying, hey, don't be late. Don't be late. He's baiting them, because they have been late before. And I think his baiting them to cut the full percentage point, he's hoping that they dissent and cut 50 basis points.

PAYNE: Yes.

NEWTON STACY: I don't know.

PAYNE: The Federal Reserve has a terrible history of not only being late, but triggering recessions themselves.

Jay Powell said all the right things, but maybe did a whole lot of the wrong things over the last year. And so I think, tomorrow, he's going to have to find a way to articulate a message, but I don't know that he's got the members with them. That's what I'm worried about. They have all sort of gone their own way on this thing.

And I don't know that he's corralling them with -- or articulating a message that not just his members on the Fed, but to the American public and to the market.

NEWTON STACY: Well, it's confusing as to what the best thing to do is, right?

So we came out of the financial crisis. We have a record amount of debt in the system. We had quantitative easing, which was a Ben Bernanke thing. He said we didn't stimulate long enough and enough money after the Great Depression, so we were going to get out of that.

Now we have so much leverage in the system, we have to paper out of it or we risk a default. And that's a really fine line.

PAYNE: Right.

NEWTON STACY: And these Fed officials don't agree on how to do that.

PAYNE: Real quick, before I let you go, what's helped the market this week and last week to a degree was the American consumer.

NEWTON STACY: Yes.

PAYNE: Just amazing. We saw retail sales. We saw Walmart's numbers.

Yesterday, Target stock was up 20 percent. Is -- can the consumer stay this strong much longer?

NEWTON STACY: Well, my contention is, is that if we have defaults in the credit markets, we're going to see deflation and a recession. If we don't have a default in the credit markets, we're probably going to see...

PAYNE: But what about the American consumer, the person out there with the strong household budget, the higher wages? Because that's two-thirds of the economy. And it feels like they have been -- keep doing all the heavy lifting.

NEWTON STACY: Well, no, it's absolutely true.

But the thing is, is, if the stock market falls because we have a recession in earnings, because we can't take out the third quarter from last year's comps, then that's going to affect some spending down the road.

PAYNE: Right.

NEWTON STACY: But I say we...

PAYNE: That's the invert of the wealth effect, if the stock market starts to come down.

NEWTON STACY: Exactly.

PAYNE: No matter what the reason.

NEWTON STACY: That's true.

PAYNE: Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

NEWTON STACY: Thank you.

PAYNE: Hey, North Carolina's governor putting a freeze on cooperating with ICE. Is this move to protect illegal immigrants putting legal Americans in danger?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAYNE: North Carolina putting ICE on the rocks.

The state's Democratic Governor Roy Cooper vetoing a bill that requires police cooperation with immigration enforcement officials on illegal immigrants.

So, how is this going to impact law enforcement officials in that state?

Let's ask someone on the front lines in this fight, Rockingham County, Sheriff Sam Page.

Sheriff, what do you make of this?

SAM PAGE, SHERIFF OF ROCKINGHAM COUNTY, NORTH CAROLINA: Well, it's not like I was surprised.

Early on, to open source information that I saw or listened to, we heard what the governor was talking about not being supportive of House Bill 370. But it's also -- another sad thing is, when you tout yourself as a former chief law enforcement officer of the state, but you're missing the point on public safety.

And I think that's the sad thing is, people will suffer. The most important thing we can do in law enforcement is to identify and remove persons from our community that are committing criminal offenses.

But when you return those persons back to the community, there's always that chance of a person being revictimized.

PAYNE: Sheriff, explain to the audience then, for the people who may say, hey, this is -- may be sympathetic to the move that the governor made, just how dangerous this is for so many citizens of North Carolina.

PAGE: Well, first of all, with the National Sheriffs Association work with the Border Security Immigrations Committee, we have persons that come through our borders. Some, we know of. Some, we don't know of.

But the thing about it is, when those persons are coming in, either through human trafficking or through our drug trafficking, that brings people into our communities that go to locations that might feel like they're safe, like sanctuary communities, and then commit offenses against our citizens and persons within our own community.

And so I want to go back to the point is, is every sheriff in North Carolina, I can't see why any sheriff and the governor wouldn't support identifying persons that are criminal -- that are in our jails that are criminal offenders, if they're illegal in our country, once, at the perfect time, interface those persons with ICE and assist ICE in the removal process.

It just makes for a safer community. And they're all -- let me tell you, they're a good number, many sheriff's across North Carolina that do honor federal detainers right now. So I want to be very clear. There's a few that don't, but there's a great majority that do.

And I -- and I appreciate what they do to help keep their community safe. But this is the most important thing we could do as sheriffs that run jails, knowing who's coming in and knowing who's going out of jails, for the safety of our community. It's all about public safety.

And public safety shouldn't be second. You shouldn't take politics and put it over public safety. That's a dangerous proposition.

PAYNE: I want to ask you about this so-called Flores decision.

Earlier on "FOX & Friends" today, this morning, the acting commissioner of Customs and Border Protection, Mark Morgan, he talked about the administration's decision to try and scrap this Flores agreement, which currently allows the government to detain migrants -- migrant families, but for only 20 days.

Take a listen. And then I want your thoughts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK MORGAN, ACTING COMMISSIONER, U.S. CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION: This is a game-changer.

Right now, because of the current Flores settlement agreement, everybody knows, the smugglers know and those trying to -- illegal in the country know, you grab a kid, that's your U.S. passport in the United States, because we can't hold you more than 20 days.

That's not long enough to go through the immigration proceedings.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAYNE: Sheriff, it seems to me like a commonsense decision that helps everyone, including perhaps mitigating the long dangerous treks that families are making to get here in the first place.

PAGE: It is a -- it is a dangerous situation.

And with the Flores agreement, you could only hold a child for 20 days. And the coyotes, the cartel who are behind all this, whether it's moving drugs or moving people, and making the money off of this, they know that they're gaming our system.

And what I understand is at -- changing the Flores to 60 days -- and on the news, you're going to hear that it's indefinite. It's not indefinite. It is to hold up to about 60 days, where we can go through all the processes with our ICE agents, our Border Patrol agents, whatever they are doing, to process the persons, to either identify the persons to be able to stay or they have to be removed from our country.

PAYNE: Right.

PAGE: It keeps families together. It keeps the children with their families.

But you got to remember, even under the Obama administration, you had some similar dynamics.

PAYNE: Oh, yes. No, I remember the photos and everything else.

It's just unfortunate that something that seems like a commonsense solution, or at least something to help, is still getting pushed back.

Sheriff, thank you very much. We always appreciate your help.

PAGE: Thank you.

PAYNE: Union now. No, I'm not talking about the Oscar-winning movie "Norma Are," but the message from one of the top labor leaders to 2020 presidential candidates. Are they listening?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD TRUMKA, PRESIDENT, AFL-CIO: If you want our endorsement, if you want our vote, if you want our support, then show us that you're unambiguously pro-worker and pro-union.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAYNE: Let's call that a not-so-gentle reminder to the 2020 field from top union leader Richard Trumka.

He also reminded union members that President Trump was able to flip a lot of union votes back in 2016. So how big a deal is getting the union vote in 2020?

Well, let's ask Turning Point's USA Rob Smith, Axios reporter Stef Kight, and Democratic strategist Kevin Chavous.

Let me start with you, Kevin.

It's interesting, because that Obama voter who flipped for President Trump often was also a union voter as well.

KEVIN CHAVOUS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Right, it was.

And Donald Trump did make inroads, unfortunately for Democrats, four years ago -- or in 2016. But since he's been in office, he's been anything but pro-union. He's passed a couple -- or issued a couple of executive orders that have limited unions' ability to collectively bargain, that's made it tougher for them to engage in political activities outside of work.

So he really hasn't lived up to what he promised. He did a good job of seizing on the messaging that's important to unions. He talked about infrastructure. He talked about jobs and trade, but he hasn't really backed it up.

So, yes, the Democrats need to make sure we don't abandon unions, and that we still recognize how important they are, especially in terms of providing manpower, as we ramp up to Election Day.

But what's Trump offering?

PAYNE: Stef, you know what? The counter to that would be, well, the jobs have come on. Blue-collar wages are growing at the fastest pace that they have grown in about 13 or 14 years, and that there's a USMCA that was specifically crafted to help the union worker that Democrats have not voted on.

Stef?

STEF KIGHT, AXIOS: Absolutely.

And when it comes down to it, this is really a state-by-state issue, of course. And so while we may not see much change when we're looking at national polls when it comes to support from unions, it's something that can work in Trump's favor, especially in states where it may be a close call.

As you said, President Trump has done a good job at messaging, making his message applicable to union workers. And in many cases, we saw, in 2016, he maybe did that in a way that was better than Hillary Clinton.

And so it's certainly Democrats cannot depend on winning the union vote anymore. It's something that they will have to fight for a little bit more than they maybe had to in the past. And I think we're seeing that already with Bernie Sanders rolling out his new proposal to help unions grow.

And we're seeing more action from these Democratic candidates showing that they know this is something that they know that they must address, and they can't take for granted anymore.

PAYNE: Yes.

KIGHT: But, when it comes down to it, it's really going to depend on individual states and the issues that matter to the unions there.

PAYNE: Yes, it's interesting, Rob, that Stef brought that up, because Bernie just sort of had to retool his message because he was losing some union support in these polls.

And you got to wonder about the Democratic presidential candidates, because I haven't seen any of them really specifically going for the union vote. I have seen them talking about climate change and all these other things that seem like social issues. I'm not sure that the typical union worker is focused on those.

ROB SMITH, TURNING POINT USA: Yes, I'm not sure they are either.

Look, you have to think back to 2016. So Hillary Clinton only beat Donald Trump with 8 percent of the union vote. That is a historic low. As a matter of fact, it was the lowest that it's been since 1984.

So, for some reason, union voters were just not showing up for Hillary Clinton and for that version of the Democratic Party in the same way they showed up for, say, Barack Obama four years before that. And I think that there really does need to be stronger messaging.

And the issue, to me, and the most interesting thing is seeing these groups that are historically heavily Democratic-leaning now putting these Democratic candidates on notice, saying, you cannot take our vote for granted. You're going to have to work for that.

You're seeing it come from unions. You are seeing it come from African- Americans. You're seeing it come from Latino Americans. You're seeing it come from a lot of voters that Democrats have historically taken for granted.

PAYNE: Right.

SMITH: And now those voters are saying, you have got to work for us.

PAYNE: Hey, I want you to take a look at this video.

It's House Speaker Nancy Pelosi facing hecklers earlier this weekend at an event in San Francisco, demanding impeachment proceedings for President Trump.

Now, Kevin, does the speaker have a problem brewing in her own party? It feels like there's been an absolute revolt and she cannot get a handle on it.

CHAVOUS: There's no question that the support for impeachment has gone up, and even among leaders in the Democratic Congress in the House.

Ben Ray Lujan came out in support of impeachment recently. And now more than 50 percent of the Democrats in the House say they support impeachment or least an impeachment inquiry. We know that individuals on the far left wing of the party support impeachment.

So, look, people want to see this president held accountable. And I still think Pelosi's approach is probably correct going into a presidential race and more congressional races. We don't want to alienate those in swing districts.

But the momentum is rising. There's no question about that.

PAYNE: Stef, of course, if you go down this path and you fall flat on your face, it is a -- it could be a huge political defeat as well, particularly after all of the hearings.

I mean, we don't hear collusion anymore. We don't hear obstruction anymore. I did hear Representative Al Green say something about racism and impeachment. I'm not sure how that will work.

So it would be a dangerous gambit, wouldn't it?

KIGHT: Yes.

And we have seen even when -- even in the height of the collusion cries and the height of the Russia investigation, Nancy Pelosi has always been slow to approach impeachment. And that's a lot due to the fact that Democrats are divided over that issue.

Of course, there is a loud, outspoken group of Democrats who believe that the president should be impeached, but it's a politically risky move. And we are going into 2020. And there are members of Congress, senators who are running and would have to answer to an impeachment call.

PAYNE: Right.

KIGHT: And for many reasons, Nancy Pelosi seems to be staying back from moving towards impeachment.

PAYNE: She's been around D.C. She knows about what she's doing on this particular issue, for sure.

Thank you all very much.

Hey, new questions now swirling around the death of Jeffrey Epstein amid reports that jail officials ignored instructions not to leave him alone.

The fallout after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAYNE: President Trump honoring six-time NBA champion, basketball Hall of Famer, and Boston Celtics legend Bob Cousy with the Presidential Medal of Freedom at the White House soon.

And we will bring it to you as soon as it happens.

Back in 60 seconds.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAYNE: The Washington Post reporting at least eight jail officials were aware that Jeffrey Epstein wasn't to be left alone in his cell.

So why was this ignored?

FOX News legal analyst Mercedes Colwin is with us.

There are so many questions, even at the time of the death. And then this kind of stuff starts to come out. And we are all are kind of like, what -- how could eight officials know, and still this happened?

MERCEDES COLWIN, LEGAL ANALYST: I mean, great -- exactly right, Charles, because look at -- look what happened.

Now, the alleged -- they call it a suicide. Let's do suicide in parentheses.

PAYNE: OK.

COLWIN: But, on July 23, it's been reported that they said suspect that Epstein was attacked in the cell.

So there's already some evidence. At least it's been reported. It hasn't been confirmed. There's talked that there was a suicide on July 23. There's talk that he had been attacked, at least that he had complained that he had been attacked.

So you already know that he is someone that, one, he is a convicted pedophile. And many people know and prison officials know that's a -- that's already someone who's got a big target on their back when they go into the prison system.

PAYNE: Right.

COLWIN: So that's number one.

Number two, you have this attack on July 23. Number three, you have all these irregularities leading up to the suicide, where he's not supposed to be in the cell alone. He was in the cell alone. You're supposed to check him every 30 minutes. You don't check him every 30 minutes. In fact, hours go by, and then someone checks on him.

So, why this happened, frankly, we may never know.

PAYNE: Well, I hope we do. There's some officials also said the irregularities, including a bunk bed, the sheets that should have been breakaway kind of sheets, no cameras.

And even if it wasn't a suicide watch, he was the most high-profile prisoner perhaps at the time in our federal correctional system. So it just leaves so much out there. And the idea we will never know what happens here is worrisome, because will we ever get to the truth and potential co-conspirators?

COLWIN: Right.

PAYNE: He just left a $500 million fortune, by the way, left it in a trust fund, which I understand is harder -- makes it harder for these victims to get some -- at least some monetary compensation.

COLWIN: Well, certainly, there's an investigation into what happened to him.

And the -- when you look at the indictment, there's already an indication that the feds are going after those co-conspirators. And who would have been the key person to pinpoint all the individuals that are co- conspirators? Epstein.

So there's a laundry list of individuals that are at least implied.

PAYNE: How much harder is it -- would it be, though, to get convictions without Epstein?

COLWIN: It's not going to be difficult when you're talking about the feds.

And there's going to be -- I'm sure there's going to be digital, some sort of digital evidence. There's going to be testimony. There's so many people that have come out, these poor young girls who are now young women coming forward and saying that they were abused as children.

They're going to come forward and there is going to be that testimony. There's so much testimony that can come in, so many alleged victims that can come forward. Frankly, it -- the wagons will circle. They will get to those co-conspirators at some point.

PAYNE: I just mentioned the fortune, almost $600 million, in fact.

It was changed, though, just days before this went down.

COLWIN: Right.

PAYNE: What does that suggest to you?

COLWIN: You know, that's a great question.

A lot of people are thinking, did he -- was he planning on committing suicide, and maybe that's -- he wanted to set up the trust fund in a certain way? But, frankly, he'd already -- if you believe the reports that he had already been attacked on July 23, and it wasn't a suicide attempt, he knew he was a targeted man.

Just a few weeks later, then -- then it could happen. So that could be just coincidental, that he chose to do it at that time, and he's dead a few days later.

PAYNE: The beneficiaries, does this make them suspect at all, or not necessarily?

COLWIN: Well, I -- honestly, there's just so many people that could be on -- who could be complicit in this man's death.

PAYNE: Right.

COLWIN: I mean, here in the U.S., across the pond, there's just so many people that needed him not to be around to at least point fingers and say that they were complicit in the crime.

PAYNE: Well, we need justice, first and foremost, for the victims.

COLWIN: Definitely.

PAYNE: And then the American public wants to know the rest of the story.

COLWIN: Exactly.

PAYNE: Mercedes, thank you very much.

COLWIN: They need their day in court.

Thanks, Charles.

PAYNE: Appreciate it.

A possible 2020 connection to why President Trump and Minnesota's Democratic Congresswoman Ilhan Omar keep clashing -- that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAYNE: President Trump, the campaign now saying they're eying the Midwest and these Rust Belt states for 2020. Do you think that's a good strategy?

WALKER: Oh, absolutely.

You look at Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, even Minnesota, Iowa for sure, these are all states that have fared well over the last few years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAYNE: That was Wisconsin's former Republican Governor Scott Walker just moments ago on reports the Trump campaign is targeting Rust Belt states and, in particular, looking to flip Minnesota from blue to red.

Now, remember, he narrowly lost it in 2016. So, can he turn it around this time?

Joining me now is The Federalist's Emily Jashinsky.

Emily, he came so close to Minnesota. It was amazing, because President Trump hustled. He spent a lot of time there. And during that period, the experts were saying, why? But he came within a razor's-thin margin of winning.

EMILY JASHINSKY, THE FEDERALIST: Yes.

And if you look at really -- if you -- if you dig into the numbers, you did county by county, and you look at why that happened, he actually defeated Mitt Romney's margins of victory in some key counties by a pretty significant amount.

So President Trump did really well in certain rural Minnesota counties. That's the same also in Governor Walker's state, by the way, where Trump ran up huge margins in northern -- rural parts of the northern parts of the state.

And so that's actually really key for president -- for President Trump and for Republicans running in Minnesota. What's interesting is that they kind of have to balance those interests of rural voters with those of the suburban voters to win statewide.

So you need to be able to appeal both to the -- sort of the rural working- class people and also to maybe the more middle-class, upper-middle-class people in the suburbs of Minnesota, people that might be able to -- might be willing to vote Republican, but you really have to balance those appeal and those -- the appeal with both of those groups.

And that's kind of a difficult juggling act.

PAYNE: Well, speaking of a juggling act within the Democratic Party, now, Ilhan Omar, Representative Omar, has really created some serious division.

And I'm not sure how much it's resonating in her state. Obviously, she's very popular in her district, which used to be Keith Ellison's district, but, statewide, you got to wonder if the same tremors that she's creating in her own party nationwide are occurring in Minnesota as well.

JASHINSKY: This is the big thing.

And the best ally that Republicans will have trying to flip some of these states or to do well in some of these states, where there's potential for purpleness, is Democrats. They're going to be the biggest ally of Republicans. They're their own worst enemy.

When you have radical members of Congress like the Squad, it makes it really easy for someone like a candidate running statewide in Minnesota to tie their Democratic opponent to them.

And that is going to be an albatross for Democrats around the country, especially in states like this. And so Republicans' best friend in statewide races like the one in Minnesota is actually going to be the hard left, because they make that choice a lot easier, especially for suburban voters, who can hold their nose and vote for someone they may be disinclined to otherwise, because the candidate on the left is really that bad for them.

PAYNE: I like that saying, a potential for purpleness. I may have to borrow that.

(LAUGHTER)

PAYNE: Which candidate do you think would fare best, Democratic candidate, would fare best against President Trump in these Midwest states?

Because they're saying -- apparently, what they're saying is that Joe Biden, specifically -- and his wife almost articulated this the other day - - is that he should be the candidate because he's the only one perhaps of those running that can beat President Trump in the heartland.

JASHINSKY: Which says a lot, if they only have one candidate that can appeal in the heartland.

And maybe it's Joe Biden. But even Joe Biden -- I mean, this is a primary, so they're all kind of racing to the left for the voters. But even he -- he's a little bit to the left, I would say, of your average working-class Democrat, at least a little bit to the left.

And so even Joe Biden, I mean, he can count on that general election reset. But he's still -- if he's the nominee, President Trump is still going to be able to go back and pull some of his policy positions and say, Joe Biden is a radical Democrat.

And so the fact that Democrats don't have anyone who's really the clear -- clear-cut example of someone who can pull that off easily is problematic for them going forward. I think Kamala Harris is better on this than a lot of people give her credit for.

PAYNE: Really?

JASHINSKY: She talks about the 3:00 a.m. policy. She wants to be the candidate that can solve policy problems that people are kept awake about at 3:00 in the morning.

If Democrats can kind of start running in that lane when the general election comes about, they might have a better chance, but I don't see anybody right now. I mean, I'm a Midwesterner. I don't see anyone right now that can really appeal against President Trump to those types of voters.

PAYNE: I have got less than a minute.

And I do want you to ask about Nancy Pelosi holding up this USMCA. I think it polls extraordinarily well in a state like Minnesota. And it's a dangerous gamble on her part not to put it to a vote, because I think unions want it, farmers want it, the heartland wants it.

JASHINSKY: Yes. No, I agree. I think you're completely right about that.

And I think Democrats, sometimes -- this might be -- this is such an obvious statement -- struggle to understand those things. And it's what hurts them in states like that, absolutely. So I couldn't agree with you more.

PAYNE: All right, I will put -- a potential for purpleness, is that the saying?

JASHINSKY: That's it. It's the alliteration.

(LAUGHTER)

PAYNE: All right, thank you very much. Appreciate it. Good seeing you, Emily.

JASHINSKY: Thanks, Charles. Likewise.

PAYNE: So, as students nationwide head back to school, states are struggling to bring teachers back to the classroom.

That story is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAYNE: Ahead of the new school year, many states are grappling with a growing teacher shortage.

FOX News' Doug McKelway reports -- Doug.

DOUG MCKELWAY, CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Charles.

It's a perennial problem this time of year, but it appears to be getting worse. Teacher shortages, we're talking about.

A recent study by the Economic Policy Institute found that the nationwide shortage of teachers has quadrupled in five years from 20,000 in 2013 to 64,000 to 2016 to over 110,000 last year.

Kentucky's shortage is worse than the national average.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOUSTON BARBER, SUPERINTENDENT, FRANKFORT, KENTUCKY, INDEPENDENT SCHOOLS: And the reality is, is that several spots that we used to be able to fill very quickly have been a challenge to fill, and especially with the number of candidates and even the quality of candidate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCKELWAY: Not everybody agrees it is a true crisis.

One published report finds that, of 2,000 Kentucky vacancies posted last April, hundreds have been filled since then. And claims of teacher shortages are not uncommon in the late summer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JONATHAN BUTCHER, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: A hundred years ago, special interest groups like teacher unions were saying there was a teacher shortage when we had about 33 children to a classroom.

And, today, the number is about half that and they're still saying that we have a shortage.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCKELWAY: But there is other evidence the shortage is real.

Kentucky, for example, is budgeting a million dollars to forgive teacher candidate loans. It's also hiring non-certified teachers. A Virginia district is live-streaming classes to students because of the teacher shortage, while another in Alabama is offering $10,000 bonuses, while, in Illinois, they're raising the -- the minimum salary to $40,000 for a teacher over four years.

There are many reasons for the shortage, good jobs elsewhere in the strong economy, too much standardized testing, and administrative bloat. Teacher burnout is also on the rise, as they face disciplinary problems, from fights, to inattentive students, to trying to compete with students' iPhones.

It is not your daddy's classroom, Charles.

PAYNE: No, it certainly is not.

We're all trying to compete with iPhones.

Thank you very much, Doug. Appreciate it.

MCKELWAY: My pleasure.

PAYNE: 2020 presidential candidate Bernie Sanders releasing a new Green New Deal on the campaign trail today, but it's the price tag on this plan that might have you feeling green.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, I-VT, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We need bold and aggressive action to combat climate change, which is the common enemy, not just for the United States, but for countries all over the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAYNE: Well, Senator Bernie Sanders calling climate change a common enemy for countries all over the world, after becoming the latest 2020 presidential candidate to release a climate plan.

His only has a price tag of $16.3 trillion. Now, the Vermont senator does say that his new Green New Deal will pay for itself in 15 years and create 20 million jobs.

Democratic strategist Cathy Areu joins us.

I'm not sure about the fuzzy math there, Cathy. Maybe you can help me understand it.

CATHY AREU, PUBLISHER, CATALINA: Well, I mean, he's been bold and aggressive. It's almost like FDR with the New Deal.

We have a new FDR. He's being bold with his ideas. No other candidates is being this bold. Right now, we have a president, President Trump, that's going to hit a trillion-dollar deficit. If people haven't forgotten, President Clinton had a zero deficit.

So maybe we do need a Democrat with these bold, aggressive ideas to get us back to those lower numbers.

PAYNE: What lower numbers? I mean, he's saying $16 trillion.

AREU: The deficit. I mean, this is going to pay for...

PAYNE: Sixteen trillion dollars. And, by the way, how does he raise that kind of money?

AREU: Well, $16 trillion is going to pay for itself over 15 years.

So it's going to be raised through training, through jobs. He says that this is going to get the unions together, it's going to get both sides together, because we're going to have new jobs, more training.

It's a win-win situation, more infrastructure, more opportunity for work. Buildings are going to get stronger. So if you don't care about the climate, you care about jobs. So, you really can't be against this Green New Deal.

How can you be against it? It's a win-win.

(LAUGHTER)

PAYNE: Here's the thing that really bothers me.

And, ironically, Bernie Sanders even admitted as much, that this is a global issue. Like, if you believed in this hook, line, and sinker, you still would have to acknowledge that China is polluting like crazy, India polluting like crazy. The other countries in the world are not curbing any of their CO2 emissions.

We, in fact, have up done that with the fracking miracle. So why should any person watching this show have their taxes go up, have their own family's prosperity derailed? Because it wouldn't work. It just simply wouldn't work with the rest of the world not even -- ignoring the whole thing.

China would laugh at us, as they pass us in prosperity and dominance in the world.

AREU: Well, we are proud Americans. We're nothing like China. So we would never do that to the environment.

But to say it's a global issue is not the right messaging. This is an issue about new job opportunities for Americans. Right now, these manufacturing jobs, they are going away. There's so many places that are taking their business elsewhere.

So feeling the Bern would mean getting those jobs back, being trained for work, that we don't have these jobs right now. Let's forget about the global climate warming, and think about the jobs in our country. And, at the same time, we save the environment. So it's a win-win.

That's the way he should be messaging it. I agree with him, not the message.

PAYNE: So, like solar panel installer, that kind of stuff, those kind of things are going to create trillions of dollars?

AREU: Absolutely.

PAYNE: You know what is interesting, Cathy?

AREU: What?

PAYNE: I read last night from a farm report that, this year, Americans are going to eat more meat than they have ever eaten before per person, per capita.

On top of that, there are 149 different SUVs out there. Soon, we will have 200. The one thing that you're not telling the American public is for your green climate thing to work that they have to give up -- they have to go on a plant-based diet, all of us, that we have to stop driving SUVs, that we have to stop doing things that we love doing right now that we cherish.

And everyone watching this show, they're going to go outside and get in a big SUV and drive to a burger joint later.

AREU: No.

PAYNE: So not only does this cost us everything.

AREU: No.

PAYNE: You're telling us to change our entire lifestyle as well.

AREU: No.

Mr. Payne, we can have our burgers, our medium-rare burgers in our hurricane-proof homes with our solar panels upstairs on the roof, and enjoy FOX News all day.

We can have it all if we feel the Bern.

PAYNE: If we feel the Bern.

AREU: It's all possible.

PAYNE: Are you concerned, though, that he seems to have stalled and that these kind of messages -- we had Jay Inslee drop out of the race. This was his main -- his main topic.

That maybe it's just not resonating? Real quick.

AREU: No, no, he didn't have enough money.

I mean, Bernie Sanders, with the money he's raising...

PAYNE: Right.

AREU: ... and the right messaging -- I mean, AOC has gotten huge attention from this messaging.

PAYNE: Right.

AREU: So, the right combination might be just what we need. That was just not the right candidate for this message, yes.

PAYNE: All right, Cathy, thank you very much.

And, folks, that's it for me today. But thank you very much. And join me tomorrow 2:00 p.m. on "Making Money' on the FOX Business Network.

There's a major, major announcement coming from the Federal Reserve tomorrow. I think the market, the Dow is going to be up big or down big.

For now, "The Five" starts right now.

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