MSNBC reporter makes gun rights argument in coverage of Venezuela uprising

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," May 1, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

JESSE WATTERS, HOST: Hello, everybody. I'm Jesse Watters along with Jedediah Bila, Juan Williams, Dana Perino, and Greg.

GREG GUTFELD, HOST: Hi.

WATTERS: It's 5 o'clock in New York City, and this is “The Five.”

Attorney General Bill Barr fighting back against repeated Democratic attacks during his first hearing since releasing the Mueller report. Barr also quickly dismantling a new liberal talking point, this comes after the media tried to blindside him last night with a report that Robert Mueller complained Barr represented his findings in his 4-page summary of the investigation, Barr explaining that Mueller was actually upset with the media coverage and not the accuracy of the summary.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM BARR, ATTORNEY GENERAL: I offered Bob Mueller the opportunity to review that letter before it went out and he declined. And I asked him if he was suggesting that the March 24th letter was inaccurate and he said no, but that the press reporting had been inaccurate.

He argued for putting out summaries of each volume, the executive summaries that have been written by his office. He was very clear with me that he was not suggesting that we had misrepresented his report.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: Barr also crushing Democrats' claims that the president obstructed justice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As of obstruction of justice, were you surprised he was going to let you decide?

BARR: Yes, I was surprised. An obstruction case typically has two aspects to it. One, there's usually an underline criminality.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's stop right there.

BARR: Yeah.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was there an underlying crime here?

BARR: No. If the president is being falsely accused which the evidence now suggests that the accusations against him were false. If he -- and he knew they were false. And he felt that this investigation was unfair, propelled by his political opponents, and was hampering his ability to govern. That is not a corrupt motive for replacing an independent counsel.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: And finally, Barr calling out Democrats for trying to politicize the investigation to attack President Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You, in fact, exonerated or cleared the president.

BARR: No, I didn't exonerate. I said that we did not believe that there was sufficient evidence to establish an obstruction offense, which is the job of the Justice Department. And the job of the Justice Department is now over.

There's an election in 18 months. That's very Democratic process. But we're out of it. And we have to stop using the criminal justice process as a political weapon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: All right. Well, Jedediah, I watch the entire hearing today, and --

JEDEDIAH BILA, HOST: Oh, that's brutal.

WATTERS: I came back with this. I don't think they laid a glove on William Barr. He seemed composed. He seemed polished. And kind of out lawyered a lot of those politicians on the committee.

BILA: For sure. And he also has the patience of a saint. I mean, with some of that questioning from Kamala Harris, the ridiculousness of now -- how all of a sudden, you know, you're not supposed to believe Mueller's evaluation and Mueller's review of the evidence. What was interesting too was Ted Cruz when he came out and I love when he does this. He does this all the time. He reminded everyone of the scope of the lawyers and the scope of the subpoenas and the interviews that went into this process.

Most people would look at this and say it was a criminal investigation. No crime was found. The end. Ok, done. Close the book. Let's all go out for pizza. But because the derangement exists and they are so committed to this, they have obsessed about it. I think the point about the media narrative though is really important.

The fact that Mueller was not concerned with the accuracy saying, oh, listen, you know, with Barr in terms of his right up, oh, there's nothing inaccurate about it. But I don't really like the way this is being played out in the media. Why should the special counsel care how this is being played out in the media? His job was to find whether there was something criminal here. His job was actually to weigh in on obstruction, not to turn around and say, oh, well, I'm not saying there wasn't obstruction but I'm also not saying there was. Let me leave this to the media, leave this to congressional Democrats to now run with this.

So the fact that he was concerned about media perceptions to the end really tells you what drove this whole thing for him because he knew there was no crime here. He knew there was no finding. But he wanted the media to take the bait, which they did. And he wanted the Democrats to take the bait, which they did. But good for Barr for standing ground and for taking the ridiculous -- some of these questions you have to sit through. I was at home laughing, thinking how is he -- how is he even sitting there with a straight face, but he just kept batting them out.

WATTERS: I thought he did a pretty good job. Juan, at one point Barr said that Mueller was snitty in the letter.

WILLIAMS: I'm glad you caught that.

WATTERS: I did. He said that was the one time he kind of, you know --

WILLIAMS: He had a snit.

WATTERS: There's a snit.

WILLIAMS: You don't associate that with Robert Mueller in the end.

GUTFELD: I heard he was full of snit.

(LAUGHTER)

WILLIAMS: I mean, to me, you know, it was unbelievable. Everybody who knows Bill Barr tells me he's a very good lawyer and a credible guy. But I thought there was no question, leave it to other people to decide whether he lied, but he clearly muddied the waters with regard to what Mueller had told him, when he said to the Congress, previously, oh, Mueller had nothing, no objection to my release of the information, my summary, I should say, of the information.

So you get a situation where Nancy Pelosi now says that what Bill Barr has done has caused her to lose confidence in him and lose the public confidence. So I think that what's Mueller was talking about, because Mueller twice, two times, indicated to him, you know, we need to do this differently. And Barr's response today is, you know what, the president was falsely accused. The President has --

WATTERS: He was.

WILLIAMS: I don't think that.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: No. I think that if you look at the obstruction of justice in specific, Jedediah, there's a lot -- even on the issue of conspiracy, there's a welcome -- the Trump campaign welcomed information from the Russians. And you say what's going on? But I'll leave it because I think that Bill Barr said in his summary, and this is correct, that what Robert Mueller found was no conspiracy. But he left the obstruction of justice charge open.

BILA: No evidence. You don't think that Mueller would have charged obstruction? There was no evidence. The president didn't obstruct anything.

WILLIAMS: Yes, he did.

BILA: Did he stop the investigation? Did he say you can't continue? Did he exert executive privilege? He didn't do any of that.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Hang on. For two weeks, he withheld. I think it's actually closer to a month, withheld the report and allowed the public perception to say --

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: -- the president is guilty of nothing.

WATTERS: Let's clear this up. These are the facts, Dana. He was given this report by Robert Mueller. He obviously had to give a verdict, as he described it, either charged or not charge because if he sat on the report for three weeks after having it been delivered that would have raised a lot more suspicion.

So he said no collusion, and he took the ownership of obstruction, no obstruction. And then tried to make sure he got all the redactions right and released it.

DANA PERINO, HOST: Yeah. So there's calls from Democrats for him to resign, which I think are baseless. And it's obviously quite partisan. He told the committee when he was confirmed, I'll do two main things, I will promise that Mueller will be allowed to finish his work with no interference. That happened.

WATTERS: Right.

PERINO: The other thing he promised is that he would try to make it available in the most transparent way possible. Now, you can disagree with how he did that, but there's no doubt that we all have the report now, all of it except for the little pieces that are classified and we can't see those because of grand jury testimony.

The thrust of the fury at him is maybe going to be even borne out tomorrow if he goes to this hearing on the House side which we should talk, and maybe the next block. But it's that -- oh, did he mischaracterize? Well, he had actually -- he had not talked to Mueller's people who were anonymously leaking in the media. He had actually -- what we find today, he has actually spoken to Bob Mueller on the phone himself.

WATTERS: Right.

PERINO: So I think that he handled himself very well today. But it was interesting. I was here on set all day and I follow a lot of people from both sides of the aisle and it was the most triable reaction. Everybody, if you support the president, you had a certain point of view. If you don't support the president, you have another point of view. And I just think that Barr tried to avoid all of that and just went -- and answer the questions very patiently. I might add.

WATTERS: Yeah. I think the one time he showed a little bit like someone was getting under his skin, when kamala Harris was grilling him.

GUTFELD: Oh, that was unbelievable. What happened? I didn't see it.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: I tell you, I'm exhausted. I'll tell you why. You know we're moving floors --

WATTERS: Yes.

GUTFELD: -- so I was cleaning out my office all day. Then I did a Fox Nation hit with Abby in her car where she drives around. Then I did a podcast with the guy who believes that we're living in a simulation. You should check that out. So what I'm saying is I didn't watch one single moment of this.

BILA: Wow.

GUTFELD: Do you know why? Because I didn't want to. I didn't need to. I know this is going to shock people, but the report is publicly available. I mean, if you actually have a problem with it you can -- yeah, sure, there's some redactions. But you know what? If you actually think that Barr was dishonest, you can go look at the report. It's right there.

I think, you know, Barr is like me at the gym. He was unimpressed by all those lightweights. He was sitting there, and to be clear, when Mueller says that he was worried about public confusion, he wasn't talking about the fact that he was quizzing people at McDonald's. He was talking about the media. And the fact is what Barr did which upsets the media now. They're a bunch of crybabies who are suffering from collusion withdrawal. You know like when inmates they make booze out of hand sanitizer.

WATTERS: No, but go ahead.

GUTFELD: Yes. I'll show you how at the break. The media is trying to make collusion out of this letter. They're just like inmates imprisoned by their own biases and their own tantrums. And they're constantly looking for something so they can keep extending this pathetic, pathetic tantrum. And the fact that this is about Mueller's mood that may be was slightly miffed, why didn't Barr show how slightly miffed I was. How sanguine and mopey I was. It's a report. It's not your dream journal, Mueller.

We know what happened. The fact is this comes down to the reason why Schiff is piss and morning blow, whatever that is, Morning Joe, is because Barr got ahead of them. He didn't let them spin the story. He got out there in front, got the stuff out there, and so everybody was like, oh, we can't do what we normally do which is lie to the public. We can't shape the story.

WILLIAMS: You're right, you're right, by the way. But he was spinning --

WATTERS: What was the spin?

WILLIAMS: -- all that time --

WATTERS: What was the spin, Juan?

WILLIAMS: I think what was telling today, by the way, is you didn't watch. And Lindsey Graham who is chairman of the committee says I didn't even read the report. You know why? Because the Trump people all say, you know what, no obstruction, no collusion --

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: I don't have to watch that. I get it all from you.

(LAUGHTER)

PERINO: Do you think -- if I can just add one thing. In the original March 23rd summary when Barr put that out, he included the line from Mueller that said they did not reach a conclusion on exoneration -- or on obstruction, and he left it to the attorney general. What do you think the attorney general is going to do? I mean, if we accept that Eric Holder's definition of the attorney general is right and that he's the president's wing man, then why would you not try to actually get the news out as quickly as possible.

And he quoted Mueller's report on obstruction. There's no inaccuracy on no collusion. On obstruction, he actually quotes Mueller's report in the original letter.

WILLIAMS: Mueller asked was -- OK, let's pick this up.

WATTERS: We're going to leave it there and come back. Up next, more bombshell exchanges from today's hearing with Attorney General Barr.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You've been very adroit and agile in your responses to questions here, but I think history will judge you harshly.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now, the American people know that you are no different from Rudy Giuliani, or Kellyanne Conway, or any of the other people who sacrifice their once decent reputation for the grifter and liar who sits in the Oval Office.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Welcome back. Continuing reaction now to William Barr's testimony on Capitol Hill today. There was a lot of that. There was more where that came from when it came to Senator Hirono from Hawaii. She spoke for a long time and actually cost a little bit of a kerfuffle.

WATTERS: Yes.

GUTFELD: Don't use such language, Dana.

PERINO: Kerfuffle. And then they're finally -- do you actually have a question?

WATTERS: No, it looked she has had that written by her staff and she read it. And I think Lindsey Graham said it was slanderous at one point and cut her off because she was just flame throwing the guy. You know, I thought Barr was very professional and poised and more agile than a lot of the senators. He obviously has a much sharper legal mind than many of these people up there. And he made an airtight defense of how he handled this thing professionally and appropriately, no matter what anybody else says.

Mueller's letter, to me, looked like someone who'd gotten fantastic press coverage for two years from the right, from the left. He was this noble prince that everybody loved and respected. The minute he submits this report and doesn't convict the president, all the press coverage shifts and starts turning negatively against him, and he hated that. Couldn't stand it that he was all of a sudden getting negative press coverage, so he writes this letter to memorialize, which is very important, that he was upset with the way things were handled.

Not upset with the baseline conclusions of the letter. He was upset that more information wasn't put out and that the media was running wild with speculation over his decision not to charge obstruction and he felt like he wanted to add more. You know what, he works for Barr. It's like your junior employee complaining to the boss, I don't like the way you did this. It's not his role. Once he submits the report, it's over.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: So Richard Blumenthal, senator from Connecticut, spoke directly to this point when he said there is nothing in Mueller's letter about the press. He is concerned about the way that you, Attorney General Barr, has presented this to the American people and the fact that you, one, delayed it so that the Trump White House could spin it. And two, that you did not use the summaries offered by the report.

WATTERS: It's not his role to criticize how his boss handles this. He submits this report that he did to his boss. The boss doesn't even have to share the whole thing with Congress. The boss decides to take the bottom- line decision. It's a binary deal, charge or no charges. He released that to the public and said -- as Dana just mentioned, he included the language about not necessarily exonerating him, and that's the way you leave it. He didn't have time --

PERINO: And Barr isn't the one who said total exoneration, that came from the White House.

WILLIAMS: Right. So you know what happened today? You know, Jim Comey has a piece in the New York Times. You know what he says? He says this is the way President Trump eats the souls of people who are --

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: There's a fact, eating the souls.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: The inaugural crowd size was the biggest ever. Oh, yeah, Mr. President.

PERINO: Let me ask you, Greg, do you think that this hearing pushes Democrats to be more likely or less likely to try to do impeachment of the president?

GUTFELD: This is one of those stories. You remember like last week there was a story about Tom Arnold recording Cohen? Where did that story go? Nowhere. This is one of those things that keeps the media busy and nurses again the withdrawal. This is to nurse the withdrawal. What you saw when you were playing those clips, you saw a lot of heroes, these are people that want to be called heroes on MSNBC or CNN. They're showboating like kids at skit night in camp. You know they're trying to play up and see.

But the funny thing is if you want to talk about collusion, we haven't brought up the fact that the letter came out before -- right before the hearing. That's a hell of a coincidence. And so the real collusion will always be the media and the Democrats. And it's pretty damn destructive because it's trying to undermine a presidency and create a lie about what happened.

The Mueller report is two parts, they wanted to be three, right? First part said no collusion. The second part was a reaction by a man falsely accused of part one. But they want part three to be so what? Get him.

PERINO: And this is not over. Tomorrow the House Judiciary Committee has also called Barr to testify. It's unlikely I think that that's going to happen, given something that we'll talk about in a moment. But take a listen, Jedediah, to some of them today. Jerry Nadler (INAUDIBLE).

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Clearly misled the American people. He seems to have testified non-truthfully to the Senate and to the House.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think in the interest of the department, should step down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our worst fears were that the Attorney General of the United States deliberately and purposefully misled the American people and Congress. And Bob Mueller confirmed it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think that Barr should resign. And if he does not resign, he should be facing impeachment proceedings also.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: All right, your thoughts.

BILA: He didn't mislead anyone. He bottom lined it is what he did. He took out all the nonsense that Mueller wrote, these are the J's of our lives, the sole bopper that he wrote.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: -- they're talking about this question that Charlie Crist ask in the hearing. Asking have you heard that Mueller and -- is unhappy with you -- the Mueller's people are unhappy with you --

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: So it's a little bit of splitting of hairs, but that's what really --

BILA: It's a big splitting of the hair. And the bottomline is that they hate that he bottom-lined it from the beginning, because when you took Barr's evaluation that said there was no conspiracy found done, there was no ruling on obstruction, done. That told you everything you needed to know without all the other nonsense.

Yeah, there were tons of things that Trump did that weren't nice, and weren't fun, and he shouldn't have done --

WILLIAMS: Come on, Jedediah.

BILA: -- that wasn't in good judgment, but it wasn't criminal. This was a criminal investigation.

(CROSSTALK)

BILA: No, no, wait, hold on a second.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Let me just quote one thing from Mueller's letter to Barr, so everybody can just judge for themselves. Here is Mueller speaking to Barr, your report did not -- quote, did not fully capture the context, nature, and substance of my findings.

WATTERS: You know that was a great example because what he said -- he goes, if you have a court hearing and then you have a convict or acquit, if you're going to summarize it, the -- you're going to say not guilty, not guilty. You're not going to go, oh, well, he had a great, you know, great presentation of evidence. Great cross examination. You're not going to get into the weeds.

WILLIAMS: Oh, and I'm the defense lawyer. I'm not the lead lawyer from the United States. I'm the defense for the United States president.

WATTERS: He's the head of the Department of Justice, which also works for the executive branch.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Are you saying, Juan, that Barr should have made a different decision and went ahead and said we recommend charging the president with obstruction based on that report?

WILLIAMS: No. I've said --

PERINO: And then why are we having this argument?

WILLIAMS: Remember, Dana, this is a guy who believes that the president is above the law. He says -- he thinks the president's executive power is extensive, and that if the president wants to fire the special counsel -- he didn't even dispute that when the president calls Don McGahn says, you know, I think we should get rid of this guy. We should fire -- oh, no, he says that's not firing. That's removal versus firing. He is --

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: That was a great explanation that he made. He said if when you call someone up and you say, hey, wait, kick it to Rod Rosenstein because I believe Mueller is conflicted and I'd like to have him removed, potentially --

WILLIAMS: Oh, thank you, Jesse.

WATTERS: That's a lot different than saying you're fired.

GUTFELD: There's also another thing that people are forgetting that when - - no one is found to be guilty, you kind of have an obligation to protect those people in the report, you know what I mean. The function of redaction is (INAUDIBLE). You can't keep punishing people. That's what you -- you want to keep punishing these people.

PERINO: And one of the reasons --

WATTERS: That's what Comey did.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: Exactly, which is why Mueller didn't give a press conference because Comey already set a terrible precedent, and this why Mueller didn't say anything and he had to turn it over to Barr to do it. And then when you do that, you work for somebody as Jesse said -- we're going to change topics. It's like we need to. Up next, how the crisis in Venezuela reigniting the second amendment here in America.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BILA: Another day of clashes in the streets of Venezuela after opposition leader Juan Guaido called for an uprising against the socialist Maduro regime. You probably noticed that the protesters there are unarmed and can't really fight back against the government. That's because Venezuela banned private gun ownership in 2012.

While covering the chaos yesterday, the mainstream media accidentally slipped up and defended America second amendment. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have to understand in Venezuela, gun ownership is not something that is open to everybody. So if the military have the guns, they have the power. And as long as Nicolas Maduro controls the military, he controls the country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BILA: Jesse, so quite a slip up there. And I always wonder why it's so hard for people in media to realize that what's happening over there could happen over here. Same thing for socialism, right? It's like oh, that's over there, that's happening over there but that is what the fear is that ultimately one day could that happen here if all of our rights are taken?

WATTERS: And media never looks to reality for examples. They can see everything happening all over the world but then when you say okay, well what about its impact here in United States? They never take that to heart. I think it was Acosta Jim for CNN who accidentally made the case for the wall when he got down too.

Once in a while these things happen so but this isn't theoretical. Eric Swalwell who's running for President has talked about gun confiscation. Stacey Abrams, Georgia Democrat is also talked about gun confiscation and actually going door to door to enforce the confiscation.

So when conservatives in this country talk about the Second Amendment and the rights that need to be protected, it's not theoretical, we've seen the last administration used the IRS to target the tea party. We've seen the last administration violate allegedly the privacy of Trump campaign officials.

We've seen a lot of the government abuse their power and when you look at examples of Venezuela, that is - that is quintessential government abuse of power and not a peaceful transfer of power which we actually didn't really have last time as well.

WILLIAMS: And do you think that if those people had guns, they'd be anything but more chaos, more violence and more--

WATTERS: I think it prevents--

WILLIAMS: Oh -- oh yes.

WATTERS: - the government from being that egregious and not--

WILLIAMS: Well, let me ask you a question. How about just in New York City, you think that if you had a gun, you can even stand up to the New York city Police department much less the state National Guard or the U. S. military?

WATTERS: I think the American people are armed to the teeth which we are--

WILLIAMS: Get them more guns.

WATTERS: - that prevents the government--

WILLIAMS: More guns.

BILA: Hold on a second. You don't think that that citizenry has a right to - they are faced with a tyrannical leader right there.

WILLIAMS: They're protesting.

BILA: Yes, they're protesting but they're powerless because most of them know--

WILLIAMS: They're not powerless.

BILA: - really they're being run over by military tanks in the streets because the military is mostly siding with Maduro and the rest of the population that are fighting for their rights, they are unarmed.

WILLIAMS: This is a fantasy.

BILA: They fell helpless.

WILLIAMS: This - first of all there's no -- this is an apples and orange comparison between the U.S. and another country but there is no reality to the idea that if some people had handguns, even you know automatic weapons, they could stand up to the military? No, that's an invitation to more death and chaos.

It's a reach by people who are trying to make the argument for guns for everyone in the USA.

GUTFELD: You know, the anti-Second Amendment activist often use this or dismiss the argument that lawful gun ownership prevents - is an organic offense against tyranny. That you know, as long as we have the Second Amendment, we have guns. There's probably never going to be in an opportunity for a government to turn to tyrannical or socialist or fascist in the United States.

Some would argue Trump is already there but I got you. The media accidentally makes the case for everything they are against and Trump is a great example because I think they elected Trump by making the case against him but so here's a neat question.

Why is it only socialist countries who want to take away your guns? Because they know ultimately that their ideology can only be coerced. Right? So guns make that coercion impossible. Once the guns are in the hands of the population, you can no longer control the population.

BILA: Yes, Dana.

PERINO: It's funny because I was going to make the same argument but the reverse which is the best way to prevent this from ever happening here is to continue to have a free and fair country that respects the rule of law.

BILA: Yes, absolutely and also it's important to note that when the weapons confiscation plan was put into place, only 37 firearms were turned over voluntarily. People did not want to do that themselves, they were forced and that's when the confiscation came into play.

All right, well a Democrat finally comes out. Bernie Sanders crazy plan to let felons vote from prison and Kirsten Gillibrand's latest cringeworthy moment at 2020 roundup, that's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: Some hot topics we're following from the 2020 campaign trail. First up, Cory Booker. He's taking aim at Bernie Sanders for Sanders controversial plan to let felons vote from prison.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CORY BOOKER, D-N.J., PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If Bernie Sanders wants to get involved in a conversation about whether Dylann Roof and the marathon bomber should have the right to vote, my focus is liberating black and brown people and low income people from prison. My focus is tearing down the system of mass incarceration so that we don't have to have a debate about people's voting rights because they're not going to prison in the first place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: So what you what you hear there, Greg?

GUTFELD: Why me? I want to talk about Kirsten.

WILLIAMS: Oh.

PERINO: I can do that.

GUTFELD: I told you before.

WILLIAMS: No, I thought you -- I thought you were joking. What you said - you want to tell people you have no comment, you can't no comment here.

GUTFELD: No, because Baley said we have four minutes for this block.

WILLIAMS: Wait a minute. Well, what are--

GUTFELD: I was trying to be nice.

WILLIAMS: Well, you let that brilliant, young Dana Perino talk.

PERINO: I will so as we were talking about last week, Bernie Sanders is going to force every Democrat to either answer this question, do you agree with Bernie Sanders? Or find a way to separate yourself but it was interesting because the way I heard that just now like wait, so you don't think they should be in jail at all?

So now maybe that went from the left.

WILLIAMS: You know, there's - there's an argument about mass incarceration.

PERINO: Absolutely, I talk about it all the time. I'm for it. But terrorists should be in jail.

WILLIAMS: Right, but disproportionate share of blacks, Latinos, people in jail from minor crimes.

PERINO: No, I get that but that's also--

WILLIAMS: Even the President with his prison reform spoke to this.

WATTERS: I actually thought it was the savviest kind of right upper cut thrown in the democratic primary so far by Cory Booker because I think Sanders sort of spin his way out of it. If you remember, he said oh well, I'm getting criticized because Republicans want to suppress the black vote in prison and Cory Booker, African-American came out and said no, it's not about race.

I mean Dylann Roof, white supremacist shooter, he's in prison. Do you want him voting also and made his point, I think pretty adeptly of making sure that we're not locking up people for nothing anyway and you know full disclosure my uncle endorses Spartacus so I just want to make that clear.

WILLIAMS: All right, all right. Kirsten Gillibrand going viral for all the wrong reasons by turning to a favorite college pastime to raise campaign cash, beer pong, watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[Kirsten Gillibrand ad plays]

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: So what do you think Jedediah, is this like Elizabeth Warren and the beer and Beto O'Rourke and the dentist.

BILA: Well, her already with the fitness, remember, she was already lifting the weights and she's trying to be - I - she's really trying very hard to be relevant, particularly to a young crowd and I wish she would just stop. It's painful to watch. I think she has her own strengths but this just isn't it.

I'm scared to see what's next after beer pong. Beer pong with water, what comes after that? I don't know.

WILLIAMS: All right so next we have a comment from Bob Barr. Yes Bob.

GUTFELD: Yes, all right, so couple things, one thing you got, one thing you got to learn about Kirsten, there's no one more political than her on earth and by political, I mean fake. Being political means adjusting your real behavior to suit some artificial mold, that's what politics does to people. In this case the artificial mold for her is I'm fun. I'm human. No, you're not. When you were playing pong with water, you are not human, you were a robot, you are weird, that is strange. What's worse?

Her plan for democracy dollars which is to give 600 Bucks to people so they can give it to political campaigns so I'm wondering where she gets this money. Does she have a printing machine in her basement? I think that money comes from us and so in effect she's talking about confiscating money from American citizens to give to others, who will then hand it to politicians.

Now that's not like nuts, I thought she was a robot, now, I think she's crazy.

WATTERS: Can I reiterate my prediction from the other day? I believe she's going to be the first candidate to drop out.

GUTFELD: I think you're right.

PERINO: I don't think so.

WATTERS: Major candidate.

PERINO: There's 20 candidates.

WATTERS: I know, some we haven't even heard of.

GUTFELD: Marianne Williamson.

WILLIAMS: I can't wait.

GUTFELD: I actually think that she's a sleeper.

WATTERS: Who is that?

GUTFELD: She's a world renowned author.

WATTERS: Marianne Williamson is running for President?

GUTFELD: Yes.

WATTERS: Who is that?

PERINO: I will tell you in the commercial break.

GUTFELD: She's a book seller.

WILLIAMS: But don't you think the President is on Twitter and using social media quite effectively.

GUTFELD: He's real. You've got to admit he's real.

WILLIAMS: Yes, but you said she was trying to be human and authentic--

GUTFELD: She's trying.

PERINO: It's not natural.

GUTFELD: He's not trying. The problem with Trump is he doesn't have to try. He just is. He is a force in nature. She's trying.

WILLIAMS: Oh yes. He tells in the campaign. I'm going to build--

GUTFELD: All right, I'll make it better. I'll make a comparison that's more consistent for you. AOC is real, Kirsten is fake. How's that?

BILA: Yes, you have to do what you do well.

WILLIAMS: Oh, you like AOC?

GUTFELD: No, I'm saying -- you don't have to like her but she's real.

BILA: AOC does -- Trump does. She needs to find her groove. Like this isn't it. It's like she's trying to be what people want her to be.

WILLIAMS: Yes, they all try to do that.

BILA: It doesn't feel natural. This is a bad fit man.

GUTFELD: That was my point.

WILLIAMS: All right, this is a Fox news alerts. Fox news now learning that Attorney General Barr is not repeat, not going to testify tomorrow before the House Judiciary Committee. What do you think of that, Jesse?

WATTERS: Well, I think they were placing ridiculous demands and demanding that all of the committee staff ask questions of the Attorney General. I don't remember the last time that's ever happened.

BILA: Watergate.

WATTERS: So I think they tried to set the bar really high so he'd say no so they could hold him in place.

GUTFELD: They set a high bar for Barr. You know what's funny? It's that we're doing commentary on something not happening.

PERINO: So this -- it did happen in Watergate. Obviously, this is not Watergate. The other thing for me is that these members of Congress, a lot of them are lawyers. If you think that you can't ask the Attorney General questions and you have to turn it over to staff.

Maybe the staff should run for Congress.

WATTERS: Week, agreed.

WILLIAMS: Really and so you don't think as the Attorney General he should answer questions from anybody?

WATTERS: Let's have him -- let's have celebrities ask questions.

PERINO: He doesn't even answer questions from the members.

WATTERS: Let's get some Fox news--

WILLIAMS: Okay but anyway, he's not coming folks. Up next, why shaking hands with your co-worker may soon be a thing of the past, that's up on THE FIVE, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: Joe Biden has only been in the race for one week and he's having its presence felt across America. It's like he's hugging the nation and breathing on our necks. Yes, a survey by Total Jobs found that 3 out of 4 people want all physical contact banned at work. Coincidence? I say no.

It's now just too hard to figure out exactly what is appropriate and now some companies actually want to ban handshakes. All in an effort to curb the creeps in our corridors so no more physical contact all together after getting our roles as sensible humans, leaving it all up to the people of HR who can annoy you without even touching you which I'm totally 100% behind, just like Joe.

Well make that 99%. The pros, banning all touching including handshakes means no one will ever be able to say you made them feel uncomfortable and that's good if someone in management wants to fire you. Not touching anyone also reduces the spread of viruses especially when Ed Henry's around.

Now the cons, we can no longer tell who the weirdo is if the weirdo can't be weird in public and that's how I choose my friends. I avoid the guy who likes to shake your hand and refuses to let go while he talk. It's like a mutt won't give up a ball.

I also void that lady who caresses my back while showing me a cat cartoon from The New Yorker. It's not the caress but the cartoon that really bugs me. Now, how do I know who's weird if they're banned from being weird? Maybe they'll get a show on CNN.

That's usually a big hint. Brought that whole thing just so I could slam CNN. All right Jesse, you shake a lot of hands, don't you?

WATTERS: I do.

GUTFELD: Or do you fist bump?

WATTERS: I do both. First of all Greg, like how are you supposed to seal the deal if you can't shake hands? Handshake deals, I mean that's what happens in business all the time. You also spot weirdos by how they dress. That's usually how I spot them.

GUTFELD: That's terrible.

PERINO: What's a tell on the outfit?

WATTERS: If they dress anything like Greg, pink shoes, you know.

GUTFELD: What's wrong? These are Vans.

WATTERS: Okay, that's in the weird category and you have your jeans rolled up.

GUTFELD: Oh my God forbid, maybe - you know what, you're heightist. Juan.

WILLIAMS: He's heightist?

GUTFELD: He's heightist. Life is so good Juan, that we have to focus on handshakes.

WILLIAMS: Well, you know what, I happen to disagree with 75% who said that they think we should ban all of it.

GUTFELD: Yes.

WILLIAMS: Because to me, it's like a cultural norm in the United States. You shake hands you meet somebody, come on, hello. I mean the reality is in Europe they kissed each other on the cheek.

GUTFELD: I know.

WILLIAMS: I mean as anybody, that's just normal by. My sister likes to do two -- three, how many times. It's like - in Japan, they bow to each other.

PERINO: Well, we should start that.

GUTFELD: Obama did.

PERINO: You can start right here with me.

WILLIAMS: Yes, there you go.

GUTFELD: I had to bring Obama back in and just for the heck of it. Dana, you are like me. I sense that you like your own personal space.

PERINO: I don't know, I'm a hugger.

GUTFELD: Oh, you really?

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: You never hugged me.

PERINO: I tried once.

GUTFELD: Is it my odor? It's my odor, isn't it? You know, that's a biological problem, Dana. I can't control it.

PERINO: I've hugged you, you just don't remember it. Obvious, I got to work, next time - the robots will be here soon enough.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: We don't need to try to beat them to it.

GUTFELD: Yes, oh, good point.

PERINO: Human beings are meant to touch.

WATTERS: Yes, that is so true.

GUTFELD: Look, I'll give you the soft hand shake.

WATTERS: You just gave me the fish hand.

GUTFELD: Yes -- that's -- would you get a soft handshake, it creeps you out, Jedediah.

BILA: Yes.

PERINO: There's a presidential candidate I know in the race that has a weak handshake.

GUTFELD: Oh. Juicy.

PERINO: And it's not a woman.

GUTFELD: Well, I was going to say 0

BILA: Interesting. Just say it.

WATTERS: Is it Marianne Williamson?

PERINO: No.

WATTERS: Sorry.

WILLIAMS: Her name's Marianne.

GUTFELD: Jedediah, what's happening to this world? You know, there's greasy crap going on everywhere and we're focusing on handshakes.

BILA: Well, I'm a germaphobe so the idea of a handshake really --

GUTFELD: That's ironic because you barely date.

BILA: See this -- okay, see I don't get out this though because the germs are here. Yes, I don't really - I'm like a Howard Stern style germaphobe, you know, how he won't like won't touch anyone. What was the other guy?

WILLIAMS: Michael Jackson had that.

GUTFELD: Harvey Mandel.

BILA: Harvey Mandel, yes.

GUTFELD: I'm calling him Harvey Mandel.

BILA: I always feel like a hug is less invasive because so I walk around with hand sanitizer a lot and I am a hugger but for a select group.

GUTFELD: Yes, people on the subway. I hug people on the subway usually by surprise. One More Thing is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WATTERS: Time now for One More Thing. Dana.

PERINO: All right, so an Indiana student turned a high school tradition into something amazing. She really went the extra mile. Her name is Aubrey Headon. She is going to prom in a dress that she helped create where she has decorated her dress with 25 ribbons for 25 fallen marines.

Each ribbon listed a different battalion member's name with one in particular representing Tyler Smith, a fellow Rochelle resident who passed away in a drowning accident last September. Aubrey said she felt proud to wear the dress in front of her classmates, watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AUBREY HEADON, STUDENT, ROCHELLE TOWNSHIP HIGH SCHOOL: It makes me feel proud because these guys you know fell over in Afghanistan for us to like live how we do. The memories need to carry on so they don't feel they done nothing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: You look beautiful, Aubrey. Thanks for setting a good example.

WATTERS: Greg, you remember who you went to senior prom with?

GUTFELD: Well, let's not get into that, shall we? There's a step -- never mind. All right, let's go to this. Greg's Blow Your Mind With Science News. Oh, what a week you're going to have if you go to my podcast, it’s foxnewspodcast.com. I interviewed MIT video game designer and entrepreneur Rizwan Virk. We discussed the simulation hypothesis which explores the idea that we may be living inside a simulated reality.

I just tweeted this, you're going to love it. Also if you are a subscriber to Fox nation, I interviewed neuroscientist and business professor Moran Cerf where we discuss his research into brain ships that can make people smarter.

I love this stuff.

WATTERS: His name's Moran?

GUTFELD: Yes but you know what, he's not just smart, he's kind of handsome.

WATTERS: He interviewed a moron. All right, Juan.

WILLIAMS: You've seen muscle man before. You know from Thanos to Thor to Bravo and Rocky but now big muscles in real life, folks. Take a look at Christian McCaffrey of the Carolina Panthers football team.

BILA: Oh wow.

WILLIAMS: The 5.11 200 pound running back is as Jesse would tell me, swole, with muscles popping everywhere in this photo all natural --

GUTFELD: All natural.

WILLIAMS: When he was drafted in 2017, he was criticized for being too small but even before pumping it up, I just want to tell you, he was one of the top running backs in the league with 13 touchdowns last year. You know Popeye taught me to eat my spinach but I don't think I can eat enough spinach, choke it down to get muscles like that, that's awesome.

WATTERS: Wow, he's getting tested now. All right, I just want to say, I neutered my dog on Monday and he's in recovery right now. There is Rookie, he's got the cone of shame on him right there, he's all hopped up on codeine. Sorry Greg, we didn't get enough.

And so we just all want to wish Rookie a very speedy recovery.

PERINO: He'll be back -- he'll be fine by Sunday.

WATTERS: Hopefully and Wednesday's with Watters, Martha MacCallum, Tonight at 7:00.

PERINO: What's the topic?

WATTERS: You're going to have to wait and see.

PERINO: I'm on Tucker.

WATTERS: Jedediah.

BILA: All right, in case you all wonder what Greg does on weekends. I found footage. Take a look.

(VIDEO PLAYING)

GUTFELD: Yes, I think I'm in the back. I had a little accident. That had to happen. I always it when I'm on TV.

BILA: Yes. Greg is clearly the background dancer here.

WATTERS: Someone change Greg.

BILA: That is --

(CROSSTALKING)

GUTFELD: No, I never change. I never change.

(CROSSTALKING)

BILA: That dog is Buddy Mercury, a rescue dog. And I will have you all know the dog is self-taught.

WATTERS: All right. Awesome.

BILA: How about that?

WATTERS: Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of “The Five.”

"Special Report" is up next.

Hey, Bret.

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