Media say Mueller nailed Trump

This is a rush transcript from "Media Buzz," December 9, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

HOWARD KURTZ, HOST: On Buzz Meter this Sunday, saturation coverage as prosecutors accuse Paul Manafort of repeatedly lying, Michael Cohen of initially lying including about Russian contacts, and the press seizes on details tied to the president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN: Prosecutors have for the first time accused the president of involvement in not one but two crimes.

LAWRENCE O'DONNELL, MSNBC: Donald Trump will be, must be impeached because of the crimes prosecutors say he committed in the Michael Cohen case.

LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS: To watch the reaction on the other networks tonight, you might as well have thought that Donald Trump just came out in a -- like a hammer and sickle T-shirt and said, look, I'm actually a Russian operative myself.

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS: Zero evidence in any of these documents, so Trump-Russian collusion zero. We have absolutely no evidence of any wrongdoing by the president of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

KURTZ: President Trump is claiming vindication. How much of Robert Mueller's sentencing memos is really new? And do they warrant the dire headlines about implicating individual one Donald Trump? And John Kelly leaving as chief of staff as the latest White House shakeup is crucial as the press account suggests.

Anthony Scaramucci, the former Trump White House aide, will be here. As George H.W. Bush is laid to rest on a tidal wave of positive media coverage, some pundits kept using this dedication to disparage Trump and there were some heated arguments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MEGHAN MCCAIN, 'THE VIEW': Can we focus on the president, please? I don't want to talk about Trump when we're in the moment of -- we're honoring a great president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Why do the media have to make every story about Donald Trump? An outside investigation finds Les Moonves lied to CBS in covering of sexual misconduct. His $120 million severance could be toast. And the network still paying big bucks to an accuser of the legendary 60 Minutes boss Don Hewitt.

Plus, Kevin Hart is out as Oscar's host after refusing to apologize for some long ago homophobic tweet, but he says he has changed. Is that enough? I'm Howard Kurtz and this is "Media Buzz."

It was, according to the media, a bombshell of epic proportions. Robert Mueller finally revealing some of his evidence and findings against Michael Cohen and Paul Manafort and clearly implicating the president.

It was, according to Trump defenders, basically a dud. Hush money payments involving alleged affair but very little material on Russian collusion. And Donald Trump's reaction? Totally clears the president. Thank you!

Earlier, there had been a day long media buildup until prosecutors finally filed their sentencing memo for Mike Flynn and you could see the sense of deflation when there were no new revelations and Robert Mueller said the ex-national security advisor shouldn't go to jail.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIMI ROCAH, LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR, MSNBC: Like everybody else, I was frustrated and sort of said, really, when I first looked at it because it's so redacted.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: The frustrating part of this for those of us who are interested in the case is that the core of his cooperation is blocked out.

INGRAHAM: I think this is a big zero. I think this Mueller thing and what they did to Flynn is disgusting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Joining us now to analyze the coverage: Mollie Hemingway, senior editor at The Federalist and a Fox News contributor; Sara Fischer, media reporter for Axios; and Richard Fowler, radio talk show host and also a Fox News contributor.

Mollie, few new details from the sentencing memo such as that Michael Cohen was contacted by a Russian national in 2015, who said he could offer political synergy at the government level and wanted to set up a Trump- Putin meeting which of course didn't (ph) happen. Do these and other details warrant the media's def con one (ph) coverage?

MOLLIE HEMINGWAY, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR, SENIOR EDITOR, THE FEDERALIST: Well, first of on that detail that was, I think, a wrestler who had reached out to Michael Cohen and Cohen didn't respond to that offer of help from a wrestler in Russia, so sometimes when these things are written, they are written in very dramatic style and if you dig into them, there isn't a lot of there there.

And I think this is very important for media coverage. There have been these two competing theories about the Mueller investigation. One is that there really was treasonous collusion with Russia to steal an election or at least very good reason for thinking so.

And that explains why the Department of Justice and FBI did so many things that you would normally not see, spying on a campaign, running informants, having wiretaps.

The other theory was that this is actually just kind of a witch hunt. This is an attempt to bring down Trump through any means possible. So when you get plea agreements that have nothing to do with Russia and Michael Cohen was being looked into because our government believed that he was the central linchpin, that he had gone to Prague and met with Russians, nothing in these documents say any of that thing.

So when you have the evidence supporting this other theory, that this isn't a legitimate investigation but just a political means to get rid of Trump, I think that needs to be part of the conversation as well.

KURTZ: Richard, there were two prosecution memos on Cohen. The Mueller's office called for leniency, Manhattan U.S. attorney's office called for substantial jail term and said that Trump directed the hush money payments to Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal before the election to cover that up and that's damaging. But based on Michael Cohen's account, didn't everyone in America basically know that?

RICHARD FOWLER, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: I think it depends on who voter you're asking, which American you're asking. I think there is a couple things that we find out from many of these documents. One, we know that there is still more work to be done by Mueller and his team. A lot of it is redacted. So we actually don't know if there was or wasn't Russian collusion because it could be in blocked out parts of the memos or the parts of the memo that are currently under seal.

But what we do know, and I think it's important that we do know this, that the president of the United States asked his lawyer to pay off a porn star and a playboy playmate. And for a party that, you know, says that they have a moral high ground, that is problematic. I think it is important for the media to cover that.

KURTZ: I agree it's important. We covered it along not as a tabloid story but as a money trail story but is not Russian collusion. Let me just ask you, Sara, before we move on, because there has been nonstop coverage of all this Mueller stuff this week.

What got lost is that Trump nominated William Barr, President Bush 41's attorney general, to come back and run the Justice Department. Given all the criticism of the acting attorney general, Matt Whitaker, who criticized Mueller, I don't see the pres giving Trump a whole lot of credit for picking a guy who is well qualified and not a crony.

SARA FISCHER, MEDIA REPORTER, AXIOS: Who is lauded by Washington officials as someone who can be trusted in this position. I think that it's been largely skipped over because it is not the biggest and most controversial story of the week.

KURTZ: Or does it not support the media narrative that Trump is trying to squelch the --

FISCHER: And undermine the investigation, exactly right.

KURTZ: So let's turn to the media coverage of the Paul Manafort memo. It says that the prosecutor say Manafort told repeated and discernible lies even while he was supposedly cooperating with the special counsel's office, and including about a meeting with a business colleague in Ukraine, said to have ties to Russian intelligence. Is that a significant story?

HEMINGWAY: I'm not sure and I mean Paul Manafort has his own trouble and he seems to have made poor decisions while he is --

KURTZ: He's got credibility problems, to say the least.

HEMINGWAY: But again, this is another one of these people who supposed to be a central figure that shows us that there was this collusion between Russia and Trump to steal the election that rightly belonged to Hillary Clinton.

KURTZ: Right.

HEMINGWAY: He has been investigated to an inch of his life and we still don't have any evidence of Russia collusion. Some people are willing to wait for years, decades, whatever it takes. Bit other people might think, gee, this really doesn't seem like they really had legitimate reasons to be worried about Russia collusion.

KURTZ: There was nothing --

HEMINGWAY: There was an interesting story this week that came out of CNN where some of the principles involved in setting up the special counsel, they said they didn't believe there was Russia collusion. By that point, they knew that wasn't true. But they were seeking to rein in the president. That is a very surprising admission and that is very problematic for people who want to have the Russia collusion investigation have credibility.

KURTZ: Richard, particularly in the case of Mike Flynn, the former national security advisor, but others too, what do you make of some conservative commentators including here on Fox saying, well, lying to investigators is basically a process crime, an underlying crime, and therefore is no that big a deal?

FOWLER: So in the Mike Flynn case in particular, I think he has to be held to a higher standard for a couple of reasons. Number one, he was a three- star general. Number two, he had the job and he was going for the job to be the national security advisor to the president of the United States of America, which is one of the highest positions in our government. And not only did he lie to the FBI but he also lied to the vice president. So it's disheartening to me --

KURTZ: He did a whole lot of lie.

FOWLER: Yeah, but it's disheartening to me to see conservative commentators defend him and say, oh, it's a mistake when he lied to the person, to our vice president and the president. That's problematic and he belonged behind bars for that.

KURTZ: And it might have been different if Democrats accused of lying --

FOWLER: I think if it was a Democrat, they belong behind bars too.

KURTZ: A big deal to me because it is at the heart of our law enforcement system.

HEMINGWAY: People should not lie to federal authorities. That's absolutely true. It is also true that the investigation itself produced these crimes. Here is another crime that happened related to Mike Flynn. Someone in the Obama administration made a criminal leak of that phone call. I don't even know if it has been investigated.

Certainly no one has been held accountable. That was one of the three leaks of information that really set up the Russia hysteria that a lot of people fell for. None of them had been investigated. Nobody has been held accountable.

FISCHER: I'm going to push back on that point for a second. I mean, just to say that if it weren't for this investigation, then he wouldn't have committed a crime, he just shouldn't have committed the crime.

HEMINGWAY: That's true, but if the investigation is producing its own crimes, that's not very --

KURTZ: So -- go ahead.

HEMINGWAY: People were promised treasonous collusion with Russia. They're not getting anything --

FOWLER: But Mollie, here's the point. The point is it's not that he called the ambassador. It's the fact that he chose to lie about calling the ambassador that makes it problematic.

HEMINGWAY: Actually that's not true. When it was first reported, David Ignatius of the Washington Post --

FOWLER: We can debate about (INAUDIBLE) we want to, but would you cover it up? He covered it up. Michael Cohen covered it up.

KURTZ: I'm going to have you guys think (ph) this outside. I did find it fascinating. We played those clips earlier about how depressed and deflated some of the commentators particularly MSNBC looked on Flynn business.

So, John Kelly, I mean, it seems like, you know, it's been a year of stories, he's out the door, he's toast, he's a dead man walking. Well, yesterday, President Trump confirmed the latest round of story that the general will be leaving as White House chief of staff this month.

Let me read to you from Washington Post news story, Mollie. How much difference can any White House chief of staff make with the headstrong, impulsive and mercurial president who often governs by impulse and tweet, is uninterested in reading lengthy briefings, and is happiest at his rallies? According to that --

HEMINGWAY: Is that a news story or -- that's a surprising amount of opinion for a news story. But this is one of these things that people have been so interested in when Kelly is going to depart. We've heard this dozens of times. Apparently it's finally happening. And like a stopped clock, sometimes it ends up --

KURTZ: It feels kind of anticlimactic (ph) because his demise, his threshold device has been predicted so many times, and of course it was only over the summer that the president came out saying he'll be staying through 2020. We all said, well, yeah, maybe.

I mean, this is a guy who was fired so many times in the press, but clearly their relationship had deteriorated and that's why it doesn't feel as dramatic to me as would otherwise.

FOWLER: No, I don't think it's dramatic at all. I think the president does have the ability to pick his chief of staff. I think it's ironic that if you look at some of tweets from eight years ago, the third year of Obama's term, President Trump criticized Obama for having three chief of staffs three years in.

KURTZ: It looks a little different when you're behind the big desk. Sara, let's close with this New York Times story, an investigative piece on two women, let's put them up on the screen, who worked at the president's golf course club in Bedminster, New Jersey.

They both say that they are illegal immigrants. One said she made his bed. She cleans his clothes. That he was kind and gave her a 100-dollar tip on occasion. But that she was offended by his anti-immigrant rhetoric. Is that story big enough and is it fair game?

FISCHER: I think it plays into a narrative that President Trump is using this immigration debate as part of a political plug but he doesn't actually feel so much strongly about these immigrants.

KURTZ: Except that he didn't know. The story says that he didn't have direct knowledge that they were immigrants. They faked their papers.

FISCHER: Yes.

KURTZ: And couldn't you investigate any business and finds some illegal immigrants?

FISCHER: That's of course but has the president come out and say I completely feel awful about this, this is such a big deal? He hasn't said anything. I think the reason is because he doesn't think it's that big of a deal that he had illegal immigrants working at his gold club in Bedminster. I'm from New Jersey. I grew up close to that golf club.

I mean, there are a lot of illegal immigrants and people that come to New Jersey and then go on to get papers. So it's not the most uncommon story. I just think it plays into a narrative that President Trump is going hard after immigrants, illegal immigrants, but at the same time, when this happens, he hasn't really tweeted anything about it.

KURTZ: The White House has not responded. All right, let me get a break here. Remember to check out my new podcast. More details on that later. Ahead, Anthony Scaramucci will be here on the president's rough week with the press. When we come back, big time fireworks on the view as the celebration of the life of George Herbert Walker Bush turns into another round of Trump-bashing (ph).

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JON MEACHAM, PRESIDENTIAL BIOGRAPHER: George Herbert Walker Bush was America's last great soldier-statesman, a 20th century founding father.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Former Newsweek editor and Bush biographer Jon Meacham paying tribute to George Herbert Walker Bush as the Washington Cathedral funeral. But in this sea of media praise, some pundits couldn't resist using 41's death to bash 45, such as MSNBC host and former George W. Bush, Nicolle Wallace.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICOLLE WALLACE, HOST, MSNBC (voice over): I think what everyone is getting at is that under Donald Trump, the office of the presidency has been debased in a way that is unimaginable for people who served every past president.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KURTZ: And then there was the brawl on The View when Meghan McCain objected rather forcefully to Joy Behar turning a discussion of Bush's record into an attack on President Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCCAIN: Can we focus on the president, please? I don't want to talk about Trump when we're in the moment of -- we're honoring a great president.

JOY BEHAR, HOST, MSNBC: Excuse me a second please. I want to talk about --

MCCAIN: But I'm not interested in your one-issue voting.

BEHAR: I don't care what you're interested in. I'm talking!

MCCAIN: I don't care what --

WHOOPI GOLDBERG, HOST, MSNBC: You know what? We'll be right back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: That is called cutting to commercial. Mollie, what do you make of Joy Behar who is arguing with Meghan McCain who is married to your boss at The Federalist? She's hardly the only one hijacking the discussion of George H.W. Bush and his legacy to beat up on Trump.

HEMINGWAY: We did see a lot of this. And it manages to be disrespectful to both presidents, both President H.W. Bush and President Trump. This is a time to remember all the great things that the first President Bush has done. He only served one term but it was a very significant period in time. His role in the widwifing the end of the Cold War alone gives you more than enough to talk about. You don't have to talk about -- everything doesn't have to be about the current president.

KURTZ: Meghan McCain wasn't having it. The Daily Mail reports that off the set, Joy Behar continued to rage and said she couldn't take this anymore. So, some of this gets really personal.

FOWLER: It does. The award goes to Whoopi on this one for cutting to commercial, and I think rightfully so. I think this past -- the earlier part of this week, we spent a good amount of time celebrating the United States, our democracy, and respect for our institutions which is what George H.W. Bush stood for to his dying day.

I mean, I think there was a big conversation about whether or not he would invite President Trump to his funeral. I was like, that's a no brainer. Of course, he would, because it's beyond what he said about his family, it's more about the presidency of the United States. And George H.W. is one person that gets that.

KURTZ: You know, I understand some comparisons are inevitable between 41 and 45 given their different style, shall we say. But by the time of the national cathedral funeral, it's been going on for days. The Trump denigration seemed to me by those who don't like this president was just out in the open.

The Washington Post had three different headlines criticizing Trump on a day that was supposed to be devoted to George Herbert Walker Bush.

FISCHER: Yeah, I think that's an unfortunate thing. You really want to focus on the life and legacy of George H.W. Bush. You don't want to have to tie it into the current administration. I can see why someone like Nicolle Wallace is going to highlight the difference between the two.

I mean, you're talking about a hero, World War II veteran, versus somebody who hasn't served, who had never been in politics before. So I get the comparison, but I think it's not necessary to go that far deep into comparing the two when you're just trying to preserve someone's legacy.

KURTZ: Right. And of course, Meghan McCain just went through this with her own dad a few months ago, John McCain, and what many felt was President Trump's lack of positive reaction or obligatory saying nice things.

Mollie, it didn't seem to matter in this case that Trump didn't make racial remarks about George H.W. Bush, that he met privately to Bush family, that he went to the Capitol to view the casket, that he attended the funeral, some people didn't like the way he was sitting there. The media narrative was set, was it not?

HEMINGWAY: Oh, absolutely. And even to Richard's point, the proper thing to do when a previous president dies is to invite the president. This is a proper norm. That you wouldn't do things like that is what is the breaking of the norm.

And there was a lot about President George H.W. Bush. He was so virtuous. He was someone with a lot of dignity. That's something we all can learn from. And when people say, oh, just President Trump needs to learn from that, I think our world today shows that we all can learn a lot from that.

KURTZ: And just briefly, Richard, it's fair to point out that George H.W. Bush was president in far less polarizing time. Today's polarization is not completely due to Donald Trump. He didn't invent it.

FOWLER: No, he didn't invent it. And I will say this. I think there was a lot of coverage of the entrance of Donald trump into the row of presidents. I think that some commentators say that he was sort of out of the commander-in-chief club and there was a lot of conversation about that.

It was overplayed because I think the day was less about Donald Trump and the day was more about -- should have been more about H.W. Bush and his legacy.

KURTZ: Right. Quick footnote. Jon Meacham, we learned, his biographer, read the eulogy to President Bush in his dying days and classically George H.W. Bush said, that's a lot about me, Jon.

(LAUGHTER)

KURTZ: Richard Fowler, Sara Fischer, Mollie Hemingway, thanks so much for being here this Sunday. Ahead, appalling new revelations about how Les Moonves tried to cover up his sexual misconduct at CBS. Will that cost him $120 million?

But up next, Republican senators challenged the president on the death of Jamal Khashoggi and the next U.N. ambassador who used to work her at Fox.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ: The media had been highly critical of President Trump for refusing to accept the CIA's finding that MBS, Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, ordered the murder of opinion journalist Jamal Khashoggi. So, they played it as a pretty big story when some Senate Republicans broke with the president after a CIA briefing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: There's not a smoking gun, there's a smoking saw. You have to be willfully blind not to come to the conclusion that this was orchestrated and organized by people under the command of MBS.

DAVID IGNATIUS, COLUMNIST, WASHINGTON POST: There is zero question of what MBS did. He is complicit in murder. There is still a question of what the United States does about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: And I get that the president has to weigh the diplomatic and financial consequences of our relationship with Saudi Arabia, but it's really becoming possible to ignore the evidence in this tragic case.

President Trump has named Heather Nauert, the State Department spokeswoman best known for having been part of the team at Fox and Friends, to be the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, and some pundits are disparaging the choice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: In terms of what we normally look for at the United Nations, her resume is very thin. Her experience in diplomacy is nonexistent as best as I can tell.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Heather Nauert will be a great choice to be, for example, the next White House press secretary. Choosing her as U.N. ambassador makes no sense.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All the skeptics that seem to be lining up on the left about her, bring it on. When she goes in front of them for confirmation, she will knock it out of the park as she has been for two years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Look, it's true that Heather Nauert who also worked at ABC doesn't have much diplomatic experience and it's easy to say she is just a TV personality, but she has done a good job dealing with journalists at state, was promoted to undersecretary, and besides, Trump may see this mainly as a communications job.

Now, some of her predecessors have had tremendous credentials such as George H.W. Bush, but others were politicians without international experience or academics or even journalists.

Samantha Power was a terrific journalist and author when she joined Barack Obama's campaign, spent some time in the White House, and then got the U.N. job. John Scali was an ABD diplomatic correspondent when Richard Nixon gave him a White House advisor job and then sent him to the U.N.

So this question, the reaction have been different if, let's just say, Nauert worked for the Today Show instead of Fox and Friends?

The Weekly Standard, the influential conservative magazine here in Washington, may be in its final days. The parent company owned by billionaire Philip Anschutz says it's exploring possibility for the Standard. It was founded by Rupert Murdoch in 1995 and led first by Bill Kristol and now by Stephen Hayes, a Fox News contributor.

The Standard has lost circulation while being highly critical of President Trump. It's also been a very tough time for print magazines.

Ahead on Media Buzz, Kevin Hart is blowing off the Oscars after criticism of his homophobic tweets from years ago. We will debate that one.

But first, after a year of stories predicting his exit, General John Kelly is out as the president's top aide. Anthony Scaramucci is on deck.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOWARD KURTZ, MEDIA BUZZ, HOST: It has been a tough week for the president, ripped by the media over the Mueller investigation. It ain't over yet, another White House shake-up. Joining us now from New York is Anthony Scaramucci, the former White House communications director and author of the book, Trump: The Blue Collar President. So this latest White House shake-up -- you're an expert on those, after years of journalistic predictions and rumors, the president confirmed yesterday that John Kelly, the guy who fired you, will be leaving this month as White House chief of staff. Is that a good development for the president?

ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: You know, I think so. And I respect John's career as a military person and 40 years in the service. And listen, he lasted 46 times longer than me, Howie, so he had to be doing some things right there. But I think the president needs somebody that really likes him, likes his agenda, and wants to work with him on his agenda. And he also needs somebody that can push back on the president the way the president likes to be pushed back on.

I think the big misnomer is that the president likes sycophants. I think the real people that are closest to the president realize that he doesn't like that at all. If anything, he likes an honest, rigorous debate. But he wants them to really know he's the boss, he's the one in charge, and he's the one who is going to direct the traffic in the end.

KURTZ: But is it a misnomer that the president's management style is kind of chaotic and he's constantly cycling through not just chiefs of staff, but other top aides?

SCARAMUCCI: It's interesting. I actually don't find it to be like that. What I find it to be is if he -- if he had a good hub and spoke system and he had one guy as his chief of staff that really liked him, and then he had fortification of confidence of those other people, the thing would actually run very seamlessly, just the way it did inside the Trump organization.

I will take you back to the Trump organization, 15 to 20 years of solid management there. He had a hub and spoke system. And once he trusted everybody in those seats, he did well and the administration or the company did even better. And so, he just needs to get somebody in the seat that likes him, that can talk to him in a way he likes to be talked to, that recognizes that there is numero dos, if you will.

And then, the last piece is he has got to get people in those seats that want his agenda that are less establishment-oriented and really want to help the American people. I mean, you have to think about the sacrifices that the president has made to take this job. I know people laugh at me when I say that, but he had an unbelievable life before he entered the American presidency.

KURTZ: Yeah.

SCARAMUCCI: And you know, you got a lot of these establishment guys that are trying to gum him up, as he is trying to serve the American people. So let's pick somebody to be the chief of staff...

KURTZ: All right.

SCARAMUCCI: ... that would help him prosecute that.

KURTZ: Let me get you on this latest media flaps. So Rex Tillerson is talking to CBS' Bob Schieffer and he says the president is pretty undisciplined, doesn't really like to read, and sometimes wanted -- he tells him to do things that are illegal. The president actually now tweeted back that Tillerson is dumb as a rock and lazy as hell. Should he be disparaging those who work for him like that?

SCARAMUCCI: Well, look, I'm not in love with that tweet. You know, if I was there, I would say he should not necessarily do that, you're the president. I think it's unfair for Rex to be saying he's trying to get him to do things illegally. I think all the president is trying to do is push the envelope. He's a big guy that brainstorms a lot, makes a lot of suggestions.

If some of those suggestions are illegal, and of course, he doesn't want you to do those, he's just trying to push the envelope of his creativity. But I shouldn't be calling him dumb as a rock. If I was there, I would recommend the president not to do that.

KURTZ: All right.

SCARAMUCCI: He would then laugh at me and says he's going to do it any way probably, Howie. That's how it goes.

KURTZ: You know where you speak. So, this is sort of a related question. Is the president helping himself in this heavy coverage week of the Mueller investigation, but with these constant tweeting attacks on Mueller accusing his office of McCarthyism, going after Comey, does that help him in terms of the way the story is perceived?

SCARAMUCCI: Yeah. So it probably doesn't help him in the way the story is perceived. But I actually do think it is helping him because I think he's really trying to send a message that he hasn't done anything wrong. And he thinks this thing has dragged on for too long.

And if you really analyze what took place, there is nothing even on the edge of illegality as it relates to the president. So I know other media networks are saying that he committed felony, so on and so forth. But that's actually not true from the report. Even if you are trying to surmise what's in the redaction, I think the president is in the free and clear on all that stuff.

KURTZ: All right.

SCARAMUCCI: He's exhausted -- he's exhausted by this.

KURTZ: Let me ask you this. With the guilty pleas by Cohen, and by Manafort, by Flynn, and by Gates, some media outlets say, well, the president, you know, is involved in a culture of lying. I don't think that's fair, but it is also true that he hired all these people. Is that a fair criticism?

SCARAMUCCI: Well, I think -- I think what a fair criticism is that some of these things that happened outside of the campaign, maybe there needed to be a little more vetting of what these guys were actually doing. But I don't think you can tag on the president something that happened 10, 5, 8 years ago, or things that happened in Michael's case.

Full disclosure, I'm a friend of Michael's and I wish him and his family well. But in Michael's case, as it relates to the taxi cab medallion stuff, I don't understand how that can be pinned on the president.

KURTZ: Right. So that stuff is completely separate.

SCARAMUCCI: So it's totally separate. So if you're going to tell me you are hiring thousands of people and that you don't have a few rogues in the system, look, at Sky Bridge, I do a background check on every single person. I have to tell you, we usually get everything right. But sometimes, we don't. And we fire those people very quickly.

But at the end of the day, people are imperfect, Howie. Probably nobody is more imperfect than me. But let me tell you something, people are imperfect. And so at the end of the day, you are going to have situations like this.

KURTZ: Well, you have embraced your imperfections, unlike some people. And finally, there is an emotional outpouring in the media of gratitude and affection for George Herbert Walker Bush. The president acted graciously, met privately with the Bush family. He praised Bush even though it is well known that he was at odds with the family, especially George H.W.

Do you think he may have learned something after what happened -- after John McCain's death in terms of conducting himself in sort of a high road, the passing of somebody whose family he disagrees with?

SCARAMUCCI: Well, listen. This stuff I don't understand. He handled that thing like a gem. He did everything right, lent the plane out, went to the event. They asked him not to speak. He was gracious said no problem.

KURTZ: So why did the media not give him more credit for that?

SCARAMUCCI: Well, they're sore at him for all the other stuff. At the end of the day, he beat the pants off the media in November of 2016. They still can't believe it. And he's still driving a very hard wedge against them. And so, they made themselves the story now and they're pounding back at him.

But at the end of the day, he handled that very well. And I thought he looked great yesterday at the Army-Navy game. And by the way, he got a very rousing ovation from the Navy and the Army at that game. OK. So at the end of the day, look at his record, look at what he's doing for the country...

KURTZ: Right.

SCARAMUCCI: And let's sort of dial it down a little bit. You know, Kevin McCarthy was on Maria's show earlier. My guess is that they will cut a deal with the Democrats going into 2019. My guess is he's going to have a very good narrative for the 2020 election.

KURTZ: We'll see. And we'll see how the media narrative develops as well. Anthony Scaramucci, great to see you from New York.

SCARAMUCCI: Happy Sunday. Good to be here. Thank you.

KURTZ: Ahead, another mess for Facebook, as internal emails reveals its cut-throat culture.

But coming up, Charlie Gasparino has been doing some digging since the New York Times reveal the cover-up and even more sexual misconduct by Les Moonves and a pay-off involving celebrated producer Don Hewitt.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NORAH O'DONNELL, CBS THIS MORNING CO-HOST: Report this morning says CBS' former chairman and CEO Les Moonves tried to destroy evidence and misled investigators looking into sexual misconduct allegations against him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: That draft report from two outside law firms hired by CBS obtained by the New York Times is stunning. Before he was ousted as CBS chairman, Les Moonves deleted hundreds of text messages to cover-up his attempts to silence an actress named Bobbie Phillips, who accused him forced oral sex more than two decades ago.

Moonves -- and this is new, received such sex from at least four women work working for CBS, under circumstances that was not involving romance. Another CBS employee was said to be on-call to provide oral sex in his office. And other staffers knew about it, the report said. Moonves acknowledged that and other instances of sexual conduct, but said they were consensual. And that he fully cooperated with the probe.

Joining us from Connecticut is Charlie Gasparino, senior correspondent for Fox Business Network. And, Charlie, you have been doing some reporting on the CBS board and how it allowed this conduct to go on for a very long time. Explain.

CHARLIE GASPARINO, FOX BUSINESS NETWORK SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Well, a lot of the board members who are -- board members have been interviewed by the investigators, they said -- particularly some of the independents are saying they had no idea this was going on. They weren't friends with Les Moonves. This was not something that was openly debated until very recently at the board level, his sexual misconduct, or alleged sexual misconduct.

The other thing that is kind of interesting here is a lot of the allegations are before his contract. I think his last contract was 2017. These are allegations that occurred -- you know, at least based on what we know, before he was married to Julie Chen, right. So we are talking 10 years ago maybe or longer.

So what's interesting is that when this stuff first surfaced, the board really doesn't want to pay him the $120 million. They think it looks bad. How do you get not to pay him the $120 million? Well, you have to show some sort of a lie, a violation of his contract that is much more contemporaneous.

KURTZ: And that, Charlie, is where the cover-up comes up.

GASPARINO: Yes.

KURTZ: There is a report that the lawyers, the investigators asked him to bring in his iPad so it can be checked for messages. And he brought in his son's iPad in an attempt to deceive the board.

GASPARINO: Right. You see, that's how they're going to deny this. And that has been modus operandi from day one, when he left, and they cut the deal where his $120 million would be contingent on the investigation. We reported -- I reported on Fox News that, that day was a Sunday, maybe a couple of months ago, that listen, everybody thinks he's going to get this golden parachute. He probably isn't because of his investigation. And whatever he tells investigators that might be lies.

And I tell you, that has been from day one what they have been handling on, basically denying his compensation because of some more contemporaneous indiscretion like lying about that.

KURTZ: Lying and lying repeatedly. It would look awful for him to get that kind of money. But the New York Times seems to have a pipeline, has got one after another, Jeff Rapp reports, it sounds to me like somebody at the CBS board or close to the CBS board wants this out there, so make sure it is not changed, and make sure that in the end Moonves doesn't get the big golden parachute.

GASPARINO: The leaks have been pretty amazing. As someone who loves leaks and I made a career out of them, these leaks blew me away. Because you know there isn't a lot to gain on the board for leaking this stuff. I mean, Les Moonves would come out and would say you violated our confidentiality. There is a confidentiality that is supposed to occur while this investigation goes on.

There is one place I think that people -- that people believe, if there is ever a place where it could happen and it can happen much more easily is not at the CBS board, not at CBS management obviously, but at national news. This is either the Shari Redstone, who he has battled against, and you know, her people who might leak this.

KURTZ: Right.

GASPARINO: There is some separation between -- right.

KURTZ: Let me jump in because I have one more I want to get to. There is a second draft report, again in the Times, that CBS was right to fire 60 Minutes producer Jeff Fager, who had been accused of more minor instance of sexual misconduct. And that 20 years ago, CBS paid $450,000 to a woman who accused Don Hewitt, the legendary, celebrated, long-time executive producer of 60 Minutes. She was accusing him on sexual assault and that continues to this day. They keep renewing the deal. And the woman has received more than $5 million.

GASPARINO: You know, I just wonder why these aren't disclosable (ph) events. I mean, you know, you would think that something that is that material, the number isn't material maybe to the corporate earnings. But the fact that it affects a major player like Don Hewitt, why that isn't -- why that isn't some how discussed at the board level, disclosed to investors...

KURTZ: Right.

GASPARINO: ... that they should know this. I mean, this is where this gets really tricky for CBS. This is where law enforcement officials might come in and say why didn't investors know about this?

KURTZ: It's really -- it's really something.

GASPARINO: They do have some issues.

KURTZ: It's really something. CBS isn't the only one who has a similar problem at Fox. I found this to be really startling. Charlie Gasparino, great to see you as always.

GASPARINO: Anytime.

KURTZ: And after the break, should Kevin Hart have apologized for years old tweets knocking gays or was he right to putt on hosting the Oscar's?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ: Kevin Hart bowed out from hosting the Oscar's after the motion picture academy demanded an apology for nearly decade old tweets that were clearly homophobic. And on Instagram, he refused.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEVIN HART, AMERICAN COMEDIAN: I'm almost 40 years old. If you don't believe that people change, grow, evolve as they get older, I don't know what to tell you. If you want to hold people in a position where you always have to justify the past, I'm the wrong guy, man.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Interesting video production there. Hart later said in a statement it's not the first time it has come up. I have addressed it, I've spoken on it, I said where the rights and wrongs were. Joining us now is Emily Jashinsky, culture editor of the Federalist. So, Kevin Hart basically saying I'm out of here, I have dealt with this before. I don't want to be a distraction. I'm not apologizing to you suits. What do you make of him bailing on this prime hosting gig?

EMILY JASHINSKY, THE FEDERALIST: Well, I like that we played the video because what's particularly interesting and I would say ridiculous about this case, is that he's not standing by what he said. He says he's changed, he says he has evolved. And so, he's essentially being punished for something he doesn't even believe, and something that his mind has changed on.

So, I mean, it's just one of those situations that is so hard to stomach. I'm disappointed that he stepped down because I thought this was a huge missed opportunity for the academy and for Kevin Hart, two very powerful institutions in of themselves, one of the most successful comedians in the world, one of the most of powerful, the most powerful...

KURTZ: Yeah.

JASHINSKY: ... awards ceremony in the entertainment industry, to just draw a line in the sand and say, we're not going to cave into this.

KURTZ: Right. Now, I want to be clear that these homophobic tweets are offensive, they can't be defended. For example, he wrote -- this is you know seven to nine years ago, if his son played with his daughter's doll house, he would break it over his head because that's gay, or I'm not passing along a picture of a naked man. That would make me gay by association. But, as you say, years have passed and he says he has changed.

JASHINSKY: Years have passed, he says he has changed. And he also -- he used a slur in some of these tweets. And like you said, not all of this can be defended by any means. He's not even standing by it. And so, to punish him for something that they're not even standing by, you can go back to any comedian. And Nick Cannon, in fact, has been finding examples of other comedians...

KURTZ: Where did he write this?

JASHINSKY: On Twitter. Nick Cannon on Twitter has been finding similar examples of other comedians using words like this. I don't care if it's Kevin Hart, I don't care if it's Sarah Silverman, if it's Chelsea Handler, Michelle Wolf, Stephen Colbert, I don't care who it is. We can't hold comedians to the standards that we hold politicians to, because comedians say things.

KURTZ: Yeah. It is sort of their stock and trade. But there is a line that shouldn't be crossed. I think even Kevin Hart realizes that. And he did apologize to the LBGTQ community for his insensitive words of the past. He didn't have any problem doing that.

JASHINSKY: Right.

KURTZ: Have we reached the point now where like nobody is qualified for anything. Nobody can pass muster because sometimes, some place in the past, they may have said something wrong or insensitive, and somebody is going to dig it up.

JASHINSKY: Yeah. I don't know who they're going to find to host. I'm sure they will find somebody, but it's not going to be...

KURTZ: Mr. Rogers is no longer with us.

JASHINSKY: And I would say, I always make a joke that if we purge all the comedians who said something offensive in the past, we're going to be left with Jimmy Fallon. But the left can't even handle Jimmy Fallon, who can normalize Trump by touching his hair.

KURTZ: Right.

JASHINSKY: So we have to stand up. I think this was a missed opportunity. It's disappointing. And the saddest thing is he couldn't even apologize it in a way he couldn't even say that he was wrong, and we all could move on. That wasn't even good enough in this case.

KURTZ: He was willing to apologize, but not to the academy. I guess he just felt that he was being put on the spot, in a way that he thought was unfair. And you're right, they will find somebody else who has never had a Twitter account, for example.

JASHINSKY: That would be the way.

KURTZ: Emily Jashinsky, great to see you. Thanks so much for joining us this Sunday.

Still to come, inside info on how Facebook tries to crush competitors. And more evidence of Google staffers wanting to bury conservative news sites. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ: Facebook cultivated an image of being about friends, but the British Parliament had unearthed emails that show it to be another cut-throat corporate. Facebook decided to collect all the text and calls for Android phone users. Even one executive wrote that asking people to opt-in was a pretty high risk thing to do from a PR perspective.

Facebook bought a privacy app to collect data on its competitors. And when the company wanted to restrict access to Facebook friends who Twitter's rival (inaudible) service (ph), CEO Zuckerberg wrote, yes, go for it. They soon went out of business. Facebook says the correspondent tells only one side of the story and omits important context.

We've reported before on Google executives decrying the election of Donald Trump. Now, the Daily Caller obtained emails showing some staffers wanted bury search results from conservative news sites. One engineer wrote, how many times did you see the election now card with items from opinion blogs, Breitbart, Daily Caller elevated next to legitimate news organizations. That's something that can and should be fixed. They're not blogs, by the way.

But another Google engineer, Hillary supporter, objected, thinking that Breitbart, et cetera are not legitimate news sources is contrary to the beliefs of a major portion of our user base and is partially what got us into this mess. MSNBC is not more legit than drudge, just bus Rachel Maddow may be more educated, less deplorable, closer to our views than, say, Sean Hannity.

How about that, at least one Googler standing up against blatant bias? Burying search results because of ideology that's contrary to the whole reason people use Google. And there is some evidence.

Well, that's it for this edition of "Media Buzz." I'm Howard Kurtz. Thanks for watching. Hey, check out my new Podcast, Media Buzz Meter. You'll see some of your Media Buzz favs on as guests. We kick around the day's fascinating stories. And you can subscribe at Apple iTunes, at Google Play tuned in, or FoxNewsPodcast.com.

I hope you will like and check our Facebook page. We post a lot of original content there, videos daily columns. And let's continue the conversation on Twitter @HowardKurtz. I know you're going to come out and do it every Sunday. And I love it. We're back here next Sunday morning, remember the time, 11:00 Eastern. We'll see you then for the latest buzz.

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