This is a rush transcript from "Media Buzz" July 25, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOWARD KURTZ, FOX NEWS HOST (on camera): It makes for a great liberal narrative. The stall vaccination program is the fault of right-wing media and Fox's rivals are in frenzy about blaming this network. But there are a lot of voices on Fox News channel and many, including me, including the anchors, who just made a second pro-vaccination PSA, want the tens of millions of holdouts to get the COVID shots, and that includes these conservative hosts.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE DOOCY, FOX NEWS HOST: The disinformation is online. The vaccine is killing lots and lots of people or it changes your DNA or there are little microchips. None of that is true.
Everybody else, if you have the chance, get the shot.
SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: Just like we've been saying, please take COVID seriously, I can't say it enough. I believe in science. I believe in the science of vaccination.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ (on camera): Even The New York Times wrote about them. But on air reaction has been mixed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Kudos to Sean. People listen -- the people who watch his show trust his judgment.
ALI VELSHI, NBC NEWS SENIOR ECONOMIC AND BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Conservative voices have influence and could change the hearts and minds of the hesitant. But let's not give them too much credit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ (on camera): No, of course, we can't give them too much credit. Look, there are an awful lot of people, many on the right, who are either hesitant or outright refusing to get these lifesaving vaccines. That would be true if Fox went off the air tomorrow. Overcoming their fears and doubts is a complicated problem for the Biden White House and all the vitriol finger pointing isn't helping one bit.
I'm Howard Kurtz and this is MEDIA BUZZ.
Ahead, Glenn Greenwald joins us in an especially egregious case of media bias. President Biden took note of Fox's effort on behalf of vaccinations after a bit of a swipe at the network.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: One of those other networks is not a big fan of mine.
(LAUGHTER)
BIDEN: The one you talk about a lot. But if notice, as they say in the southern part of my state, they've had an altar call, some of those guys. All of a sudden, they're out there saying let's get vaccinated, let's get vaccinated. That's good. It's good. It's good. We just have to keep telling the truth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ (on camera): But many pundits are continuing to blame the GOP along with the conservative media.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: It is also just empirically true partisan politics, specifically Republican leaders and affiliated media spewing lies about the vaccine that is getting in the way of science and health.
CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST: It is undeniably the case that one of the main issues we are facing in combating this disease 18 months into this is a kind of radicalization of the American right against vaccination.
LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: The White House is embracing a campaign of cut throat intimidation against anyone who questions the official position on COVID.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ (on camera): But even The Washington Post and other outlets concede many Republicans are pushing back against their party's vaccine skeptics.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): The way to avoid getting back in the hospital is to get vaccinated. Ignore all of these other voices that are giving demonstrably bad advice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ (on camera) Joining us now to analyze the coverage, Ben Domenech, founder of The Federalist and a Fox News contributor. And in New York, Liz Claman, host of "The Claman Countdown" on Fox Business Network Daily at 3:00 Eastern.
Ben, what do you make of much of the mainstream media blaming Republicans, blaming Fox, blaming conservative pundits for the obviously frustrating fact that millions of Americans don't want the vaccine?
BEN DOMENECH, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR, FOUNDER AND PUBLISHER OF THE FEDERALIST: Well, I don't think they have much of a leg to stand on, and I think that if you actually look at the evidence that we have from the populations that are most vaccine resistant, you know, I think to a certain extent, when Jake Tapper, you know, lays this at the feet of right-wing media or Republican officials, he's saying that somehow almost half of African-Americans and nearly as many Hispanic-Americans have become fans of all of these places overnight, because those are the populations that are the most vaccine resistant.
We saw polling from CBS News just this week looking at those populations and they're vaccine resistant. Unfortunately, only about half of African- Americans say that they either have gotten the shot or that they intend to get one.
That is a huge problem and that is not going to be fixed no matter how many times Mitch McConnell goes out there and says that they ought to do so.
So look, what I see on the right is overwhelming unanimity among the political class and among the media class as well that these vaccines are good. And to the degree that there's skepticism, it tends to be about should children be vaccinated or is that something that is necessary --
KURTZ: Yeah.
DOMENECH: -- in order to go back to school and the like as opposed to doubting the vaccines or saying that there are some overwhelming danger from taking them.
On the flip side, last summer, when Kamala Harris said that she was opposed to taking a vaccine if just Donald Trump told her to, it is something that she would later repeat in the debate, STAT News polled and found almost a 20-point drop among African-Americans --
KURTZ: Ah.
DOMENECH: -- in terms of their faith in the vaccine.
KURTZ: All right. Let me get now --
DOMENECH: So I look at the White House and I look to their leadership on this issue.
KURTZ: You know, Liz, the stakes are high there, more than 50,000 new COVID cases yesterday. That is tripling in number, racial disparities or educational disparities. It seems like the press though wants a scapegoat.
LIZ CLAMAN, FOX BUSINESS NETWORK ANCHOR: I really have to disagree with Ben on what he said regarding unanimity within the Republican Party or conservative voices. And just looking at the facts, you do have the worst state right now, Howie, as Florida. They have seen an exponential jump in the past six days.
You started to see something like 45,000 new cases and a lot of this has possibly stemmed from the fact that not recently, because he has begun to say get vaccinated, I'm talking about Governor Ron DeSantis, but he is the torch bearer of this state and of Donald Trump's flag and he has not been up until recently very clear on this.
So you can understand why the media are basically trying to look at this and say that some of the red states, whether it's Alabama, Louisiana, Florida, are starting to see the worst cases and many of them are, of course, not vaccinated.
You got to look at this and simply say that that's not saying get vaccinated when he comes out and says now that people should. He has to look at this and he has to be very clear and he has to stop standing in the way of mandates that are trying to at least let private companies ensure that their customers and their employees are vaccinated.
KURTZ: We'll talk about mandates in a moment. Ben, on the same day that The Washington Post ran this piece saying a growing number of top Republicans are urging people to get vaccinated, The New York Times led up by saying many congressional Republicans have declined to push back against vaccine sceptics in their party who are sowing mistrust such as Marjorie Taylor Greene almost like looking for the dark lining there.
(LAUGHTER)
DOMENECH: Look, I think, you know, when I say unanimity, I think it leaves out people like Marjorie Taylor Greene. But one thing that I think is clearly important here is the distinction between policy making and the advocacy among politicians for people getting vaccinated.
Personally, I don't think that politicians actually motivate people all that much. All of their lecturing and all of their demands have not really resulted in the kind of outcomes that you would see. If that worked, then Gretchen Whitmer would have a phenomenal record given the number of mandates and the number of pleas that she has made along these lines.
I think what you're seeing in Florida has a lot to do with frankly the reality that we're going to continue to see case counts become an issue. But we are hopeful that this time, you're not going to see death counts become an issue, which is obviously the most important element here.
KURTZ: Right. Liz, sort of a question of media framing, you can let such pro-vaccination voices at Fox such as Sean Hannity and Steve Doocy become the story, change narrative or not. You can say Facebook is part of the problem through misinformation or you can say Democrats want to censor Facebook.
And all of these, I think, exacerbates the debate, maybe even obscures the need to convince more people to help their country by getting these shots.
CLAMAN: Yeah. Well, exactly. I mean, the media are not focusing on that particular issue of listen, let's just cut through this nonsense. I'm with you, Howie. As you say, I'm with Sean Hannity. I'm with our own network, Fox Business and Fox News, which are running telephone numbers that you can actually learn about the truth, the good truths about getting vaccinated.
My dad and my two uncles were surgeons. I've got six first cousins who are doctors. I'm very pro-science here. And so, therefore, when you start to see that no matter what anybody says, whether it is individual governors, Kay Ivey of Alabama came out swinging, she is way stronger than arguably that voice of the Republican Party, if all the polls are right.
It's Donald Trump who is the voice of conservatives and the voice of the Republican Party. He got the vaccine, albeit privately. He has said go and get the vaccine. However, just a couple of days ago, he came out and said people aren't getting the vaccine because they don't trust the election results. He tied that into politics.
So, you can understand why the media, including the independents or The Hill -- I mean, The Hill just had a headline that I saw that said only Trump can fix this issue of people being too scared to get the vaccination because they do listen to him and he has not come out strongly enough and in fact kind of walked back some of this.
Facebook, of course, is a huge problem. And by the way, it's not just conservative voices, Howie. It's RFK, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., who has come out as an anti-vaxxer --
KURTZ: Yeah.
CLAMAN: -- spewing a lot of liberal negative anti-vax news and that's just a problem.
KURTZ: On this question of mandates, Ben, Washington Post columnist Max Boot says that this is madness, stop making reasonable appeals to those who will not listen to reason, and says if you want to go to a concert, get on a plane, get on a train, go to your office, you have to show proof of vaccination or a negative test. Does that seem to you to be a smart direction for the media criticism to take?
DOMENECH: Max Boot has never struggled with making evidence-free arguments. What we actually know from the experience across the country is that we see very little difference in places where these mandates were put in place by government.
Now, I do think, to Liz's point earlier, there are differences when it comes to the ability of corporations or private companies to mandate certain things. The ability of colleges, for instance, to have mandates. We saw, for instance, the NFL this week, you know, talking about potentially having games forfeited in the coming season. Those I think will actually result in increased vaccinations in a way that these government mandates won't.
But, again, I get back to the idea that the biggest element here is the hypocritical approach that we've seen from government leadership that said you could go back to normal if you have high levels of vaccination, which we have in most of the country, but instead we have, well, maybe we're going to have to mandate, all your kids are going to wear masks for another year and the like as open discussion among our political leadership class.
KURTZ (on camera): Right. We also obviously have the complication of the highly contagious delta variant. Liz, President Biden took a lot of flak for saying, Facebook, they're killing people, then came to walk back earlier this week. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: Facebook isn't killing people. These 12 people are out there giving misinformation. Anyone listening to it is getting hurt by it. It's killing people. It's bad information.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ (on camera): The 12 people, according to a study, were supposed to be responsible for two-thirds of vaccine misinformation online. Have the media gone fairly easy on President Biden over his initial charge that Facebook is killing people and then the pullback?
CLAMAN: Yeah. More importantly, they've gone easy on him for not putting through mandates. He is the one who can say, for example, mandate that all federal employees must be vaccinated or all members of the military, for example.
But yes, I think both Facebook and Joe Biden are wrong here. Joe Biden came out and said Facebook is killing people and then just a couple days later, last week, he walked that back. Well, which is it?
Listen, Facebook is the source of this huge undertow of incorrect and quite frankly damaging and very dangerous information, misinformation on the vaccine situation. Facebook had no problem shutting down Donald Trump when they didn't like what he said.
You're telling me that they can't shut down RFK, Jr. or any of these other 12 out there? You know, give me a break. They have not lost control of their site. They are able to do this.
DOMENECH: I'm sorry. I have --
CLAMAN: Both of them should be working together to make it happen.
DOMENECH: I have to dispute this repeated use of this figure of 12 people being the source of misinformation. It comes from a foreign minor organization that targets quote, unquote -- "hate groups online," including trying to get my own publication, The Federalist, deplatformed last year from Google ads. They are a fraudulent group. They're not to be believed.
And if you actually look at where this number comes from, I think you'll find that there's no justification for it. The fact that the White House would use the foreign source to target Americans online no matter what the issue is, it's very disturbing to me. I think that we need better evidence on this. I do think there are things that Facebook can do, of course.
KURTZ: Yeah. It is always amazing to me. I mean, five years ago, Facebook was playing defense about Russian information. They're always promising to do better, but yet they turned down funding and increased personnel to deal with COVID-19 misinformation.
Let me get a break here. Ahead, Glenn Greenwald joins us on media bias. When we come back, Kevin McCarthy, Nancy Pelosi, at war over the January 6th committee and the media immediately choose upsides.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KURTZ (on camera): The pundits are lining up behind Kevin McCarthy or Nancy Pelosi after their latest blow-up. The House speaker, in what she called an unprecedented move, rejected two of McCarthy's five Republican appointees, Jim Jordan and Jim Banks, to the special committee that will investigate the Capitol riots. The minority leader then pulled all of his Republican picks and the sound bite war began.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): It's an egregious abuse of power. Pelosi has broken this institution.
NANCY PELOSI, SPEAKER OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: The other two made statements and took actions that just made it ridiculous to put them on such a committee seeking the truth.
UNKNOWN: She already knows the outcome and so she doesn't need to bother to have anybody in the minority participate. So why do that? It is a charade. It is a disgrace.
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER OBAMA SENIOR ADVISER: It would be an empty exercise if you have people on the committee who are there simply to blow the thing up and that's what those guys were there to do.
MIKE SHIELDS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER RNC CHIEF OF STAFF: What Nancy Pelosi did today was prove Kevin right on everything he's been saying about this from the very beginning, which is that this is about politics.
ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: Everybody knows Jim Jordan is the antithesis of the search for truth about the January 6th insurrection. That's why Republicans want him on this probe that they oppose, to mess with it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ (on camera): Ben Domenech, I'm struck by how quickly liberal pundits and networks lined up behind Pelosi. Well, of course, you can't put Jim Jordan on the committee, which obviously the speaker knew she was throwing a grenade that would destroy any faith of bipartisanship here.
DOMENECH: I think that this was another tactical mistake on Nancy Pelosi's part. I think that she could have had both of these folks on the committee and they might have had a couple of sound bites. They might have had a couple wins along the way. But ultimately, she would have been able to claim this was a truly bipartisan commission.
Unfortunately, I think that she was in a situation where she was counting on the media to come and defend her no matter what she did, and so she throws them off the committee, which creates this weird circumstance where Jim Jordan can be the ranking member on the Judiciary Committee but he can't participate in this commission, he's too extreme to go and participate in any way.
To me, this is something that actually goes down to Kevin McCarthy's benefit. He is able to have a legitimate excuse to pull from it. I think it creates a scenario where we end up with a partisan commission that Nancy Pelosi intended to have all along.
KURTZ: Well, Liz Claman, I'm also struck by how conservative pundits immediately supported Kevin McCarthy, who already torpedoed a bipartisan independent commission and undoubtedly wants to keep the spotlight off of Donald Trump's role on January 6th.
CLAMAN: Yeah. But, you know, that's true. I think either way on both sides, the media needs to focus on something that is way less catnip for cable news and more substantive on how do we prevent something like January 6th from happening again.
Why didn't we have the ability to get the National Guard on-site? You know, there is that existence of the phone call between Kevin McCarthy and Donald Trump where Kevin McCarthy reportedly said, call these people off. Then you've got President Trump saying, these are loving people, loving as they're full-blown attacking Capitol police who were there to defend both sides of the aisle in the Capitol building.
The media needs to stop with all of that and focus specifically on how do we investigate this? What were the problems? And I'm talking about the infrastructure, the phone lines, and the ability to move national guardsmen across state lines. Instead of looking at this issue and saying, you know, come on, loving people, I mean, the videotape is there, Howie.
And on the other side, you just had George Stephanopoulos about an hour ago. He had both Nancy Pelosi and then Republican Senator Rob Portman on both sides of this discussion. Portman is saying, yeah, you know, it's not helping if we can't get a commission together or at least accept it.
KURTZ: Well, good luck trying to get the media not to cover partisan sniping. Ben, when Pelosi says we can't allow the other party appoint lawmakers who don't believe in the mission, I think there's a kind of amnesia.
I mean, didn't Democrats, during all those hearings with the House, Benghazi committee tried to undermine the mission. I mean, minority parties always play defense on these investigating committees.
DOMENECH: Well, this is why I think it was a mistake for her to do what she did, because in the sense of trying to keep this as a politically toxic issue going forward, Nancy Pelosi needs to keep January 6th in the minds of the American people as being an insurrection, as being something that many figures have compared to 9/11 and the like.
She needs to, in other words, make it seem a bigger and a bigger part of the conversation going into a midterm that I think a lot of people believe will be very negative for her party.
But by pulling the rug out from underneath it and having a commission that's only going to end up with Republicans like Liz Cheney or maybe Adam Kinzinger or ex-Republicans who have already lost their primaries, that's something that I think a lot of people are not just going to take seriously.
And so only the portion of America that truly believes that they saw an insurrection as opposed to a riot, a protest gone out of control, which did result in a lot of negative things and that should result in the practical questions Liz was talking about regarding infrastructure and policing, well, they're not going to get that. They're going to get this partisan performative activity that is only designed to help boost Democrat hopes going into the midterms.
KURTZ: Liz, I've got 30 second. I've seen a lot of journalists acknowledge that maybe Kevin McCarthy did win this round because without any Republicans appointed by him, yes, Liz Cheney is on the committee, it will be easier for the GOP to paint this as just democratic sheer partisanship.
CLAMAN: Yeah. You know, it's confusing, I will say, because if the Republicans are pushing to be the party of law and order and the party of police, attacking Democrats and rightly so about defunding the police if there are those voices out there on the left that are doing it, how can they then be portrayed as being pro-police if they're fighting against this commission where police were brutalized and attacked?
KURTZ: Right.
CLAMAN: So, I think there's a lot more to go before we see any kind of investigation.
KURTZ: A lot of lingering issues. Ben Domenech, Liz Claman, thanks very much for joining us Sunday.
Up next, Jeff Bezos conquers space and rehabs his image. But is The Washington Post owner living up to his call for civility?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KURTZ (on camera): It took just 11 minutes for Jeff Bezos to redefine his image, the picture perfect space flight by his Blue Origin rocket was something to watch. And having anchored the equally successful landing by Richard Branson the previous week, I got caught up in the excitement.
Yes, the media build this as the brazen battle of the billionaires, but it was also a triumph for American capitalism. When Bezos emerged and started hugging everyone in sight and described being on the edge of outer space, he was quite clearly trying to cast himself as a visionary explorer who will now spend part of his time on his climate change foundation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFF BEZOS, BUSINESS MAGNATE: Now, on how it felt, oh, my god!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ (on camera): At that point, it was hard to think of him as a founder of Amazon, which has been accused of some awful conditions in certain warehouses or is the owner of The Washington Post who is often at odds with Donald Trump or is the guy who accused The National Enquirer of extortion after the tabloid revealed his affair with the woman he embraced right after the flight.
And Bezos just took over cable news with his own choreographed TV show. There were the subplots, bringing along the oldest person to fly in space, aviator Wally Funk, and the youngest person, a Dutch college student, and the sidebars, he had taken Amelia Earhart's goggles on the flight.
It was a sleek infomercial complete with video and less of a handful of questions from actual reporters. Then the plot twist as Bezos talked about rising above petty partisanship and handed out $100 million awards for civility.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEZOS: Not the person. Ad hominem attacks have been around a long time but they don't work, and they've been amplified by social media. And the first Courage and Civility Award goes to Van Jones.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ: Van Jones is a liberal CNN commentator and former Obama White House official. And while he did work with the Trump administration on criminal justice reform, look how he reacted to Joe Biden's victory.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER OBAMA ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: If you're a Muslim in in this country, you don't have to worry if the president doesn't want you here. If you're an immigrant, you don't have to worry if the president is going to be happy to have babies snatched away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ (on camera): Even Anderson Cooper anchoring CNN's space coverage was stunned by the award. I'm sure Jones will spend the money well. The other award went to a celebrity chef and humanitarian, Jose Andres.
Critics in the media have accused Bezos and Branson of wasting their money on thrill rides for the mega wealthy. Bezos didn't really deny that, saying, we can explore space and also fix problems at home.
While I'm skeptical about a new era of space tourism, I do think there are benefits of to improving space technology without government money. As for the TV makeover of the usually reclusive Bezos, when you know how to work the media, there are always second acts in American life.
Next on MEDIA BUZZ, NPR accuses Ben Shapiro of practicing polarizing politics because he's a conservative? Glenn Greenwald is on deck.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KURTZ (on camera): NPR acknowledges that Ben Shapiro, the author, podcaster and proprietor of the conservative Daily Wire, generates far more Facebook traffic than any other news outlet but says experts worry he may be furthering polarization in the United States.
The founder of the left wing ThinkProgress has quoted saying, Shapiro takes many red meat cultural issues and gives them an intellectual sheen so they don't seem crazy. And here's NPR's Miles Park.
(BEGIN VOICE CLIP)
MILES PARKS, REPORTER, NPR: And these are all stories that either bolster the conservative agenda or they focus on polarizing topics. There's lots of stories, for instance, on my cancel culture and critical race theory. It's not usually false information, it's just extremely biased which the site admittedly by does say on their web site.
(END VOICE CLIP)
KURTZ (on camera): Joining us now from Brazil, Glenn Greenwald, the Pulitzer Prize winning journalist who now writes at Subs back -- excuse me, Substack and is the author of "Securing Democracy: My Fight for Press Freedom and Justice in Bolsonaro's Brazil."
Glenn, has it never occurred to the folks at NPR that MSNBC, Huff Post, all these other left-wing sites, also deal with culture war issues, also try to make Democrats look bad, and yet, the Daily Wire here is accused of turning anger into an art form? Is NPR that tone deaf?
GLENN GREENWALD, CO-FOUNDER, THE INTERCEPT: I mean, it's the most extreme case to lacking self-awareness I think I've ever seen, it's not just the sites that you mentioned but NPR itself would rather throw acid than criticize a leading Democratic Party politician and at least Ben Shapiro is honest about his ideology, as are MSNBC opinion host or Fox opinion hosts.
What makes this so galling is that NPR is accusing other people of being politically polarizing and serving a political side of the spectrum when that's all NPR does. And ever since the George Floyd killing, you know, you can listen to NPR and almost be guaranteed that the theme of NPR will be some culture war issue about race, they almost flood the zone of coverage.
So everything they're saying about Ben Shapiro is true about them, but the only difference being that Ben Shapiro is candid about his views and NPR pretends superiority.
KURTZ: Yes. But Ben Shapiro reacted by saying NPR is selling rabid, historical outrage over everything Trump related. So, if the Daily Wire isn't publishing falsehoods and NPR says it's not, and is completely upfront about the conservative ideology, what exactly is the problem with his success?
GREENWALD: The problem is his success. That's exactly the problem. Which is that, you know, I think people have forgotten that prior to Trump's arrival on the political scene, most of these outlets were really struggling. MSNBC was on the verge of firing almost every one of their hosts, besides Rachel Maddow. People were talking about The New York Times how they were going to be sustainable.
Trump was an incredible sugar boost to them. And now that he's gone, their audience is collapsing. Everybody in media has seen their audience decline. But it's the liberal side of the corporate media that has really had this collapse because they placed all their bets on Trump and with him gone, they encouraged their audience to believe there's no more reason to pay attention to politics.
And so, when they see independent voices being successful as Ben Shapiro, whatever you think of him, and I've had nothing but negative exchanges with him is, what they really do is have this instinct to first malign you and then try and silence you as their only way desperately to try and preserve an audience for themselves and that's so much of what is driving this media commentary about --
KURTZ: Right.
GREENWALD: -- people who are entrapped within their corporate system.
KURTZ: Let's talk about the vaccine debate. Because you say that the widespread claim that there's now a surge in Republican politicians and pundits on the right issuing pro-vaccine messages, is a conspiracy theory, a fake conspiracy theory. Explain.
GREENWALD: Well, I think every governor or almost every Republican governor for months has had the same view, which is we have this great vaccine program and we urge all of you to come and get it. Donald Trump himself, who the media generally says is like a cult leader to conservatives, has routinely boasted, I think validly about the job that his government did in delivering a vaccine more quickly than anyone thought was possible and he too has always encouraged people to go and get the vaccine.
And even here on Fox, you know, Sean Hannity this week said go and get the vaccine and there were articles saying, why has he suddenly changed when you can go back months and see Sean Hannity saying I believe in the vaccine, I intend to get the vaccine for myself.
So, they've created this narrative that right wing politicians, Republican politicians, right wing media figures have been telling people not to get the vaccine when all you have to do is go use Google and see that it's a completely fictitious narrative that they've created.
KURTZ: Well, there seems to be a turn in elite media opinion now, more anger being directed at the unvaccinated. Take a look at CNN's Don Lemon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DON LEMON, HOST, CNN: You've got to call it what it is. If behavior is idiotic and nonsensical, I think that you need to tell people that their behavior is idiotic and nonsensical.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ: Glenn, does it help the situation to accuse people who have declined to get these vaccines of idiotic behavior?
GREENWALD: I don't understand when elites in liberal sectors of society will learn that there are obvious attitudes that people who disagree with them are primitive and stupid and (Inaudible) and deplorables has nothing - - has nothing but make those people tune out to what they're being told because obviously, people who obviously think that you're dumb and moronic are not people that you're going to trust and listen to, and that's the other part of about it. Is these media outlets have lost faith and trust in people?
It is true there's a partisan divide but there's also a racial divide. More Latinos and African-Americans are skeptical of the vaccine which is getting lost in the narrative. But the more you try and force people or coerce them or pressure them rather than persuade them to do something, it's just human nature that people don't want to be forced to do something they don't want to do. They need to be persuaded and that requires respect which a lot of these institutions of authority are lacking.
KURTZ: Right. Let me jump in. With mask mandates making a comeback in places like L.A. County and St. Louis, you tweeted the other day if you walk into a grocery store and you're vaccinated, why does society have to be reshaped around those choosing not to be vaccinated. Could people say that that's kind of a callus approach to people who could get sick and die if they get exposed?
GREENWALD: I think what's been going on from the beginning is this refusal to count the cost, not only of COVID, which are significant, but also the cost of measures taken to fight COVID which also are significant.
And there's studies showing that people even when they're vaccinated are still afraid to go back to a normal life which is really harmful to society economically, psychologically and in every other way.
So, I think the more you see people still wearing masks and everything looking dangerous outside, the more anxiety you're feeding and that is the question. If someone says look, I don't want protection from COVID, I don't fear COVID, the vaccines available, I don't want to take it, why is society continuously structured with the excuse that we have to protect them when they're saying I don't want this protection.
I think returning to normal if you believe in the vaccine as I do is something that is imperative and continuing to say wear a mask, socially distance, keep businesses closed. There's a really terrible message to be sending in the post-vaccine world.
KURTZ: Yes. I'm going to close by citing one of your tweets. You unearthed an old tweet March 2020 from MSNBC's Chris Hayes. Trump's obsession focus on a vaccine is nuts, it's totally immaterial to the short-term challenges that are substantial. Obviously, it turned out that he did produce and he has supported and I hope he speaks out more, the vaccines that can save, that are saving lives of many Americans.
Glenn Greenwald, thanks very much for joining us. Great to see you.
GREENWALD Always great to be with you, Howie. Thank you.
KURTZ: After the break, Don Lemon interviews Joe Biden in a CNN town hall that wasn't exactly an interrogation.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KURTZ (on camera): No one was expecting a journalistic grilling when CNN tapped perhaps its most liberal voice, Don Lemon, to moderate a town hall with President Biden. But at times they seemed like old pals.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Can you take us behind the scenes, something that was extraordinary or unusual that happened that stands out to you.
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: When the first time I walked down the stairs and they played "Hail to the Chief," I wondered where is he?
No. You think I'm kidding. I'm not kidding. You know what I mean.
LEMON: It's a great tune, isn't it?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ (on camera): Joining us now, Marie Harf, former State Department spokeswoman and Fox contributor. Marie, Don Lemon asked noozy type questions about what are you going to do about the infrastructure and the vaccine and so forth had. But he didn't the president at all or ask him about any sharp criticism, didn't make much news, so what did it accomplish?
MARIE HARF, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, first, I don't think that town halls are necessarily supposed to be interrogations. And a lot of really good questions came from the voters who are supposed to be the focus of town halls. But Don Lemon did grill him on issues like the filibuster, for example, Don Lemon got applauds from the audience when he really said, you know, how are you not looking at getting rid of this.
And I think the purpose here was to learn something about what Joe Biden is thinking and how he's leading, and Don Lemon is certainly not sort of a hostile interviewer. But I watched that town hall and I came away knowing more about how Joe Biden is looking at things. And so, I don't know, I think that's a success if my book.
KURTZ: Also, Lemon pressed him from the left because he wants the filibuster reduce or abolished so he can get the voting rights bill.
HARF: Yes.
KURTZ: President Biden said during that session you're not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations. Now The Washington Post fact checker said that's not true. You have far less chance of getting COVID. And if you do get it symptoms are mild and you don't get hospitalized and you stay alive. But crickets from most of the media. Does Biden get fact check with anything approaching the intensity that Donald Trump did every day?
HARF: Well, he doesn't lie with the intensity that Donald Trump did every day, so I don't think it's apples to apples to compare them.
(CROSSTALK)
KURTZ: But that was just wrong.
HARF: But if you look at CNN's own fact --
KURTZ: Yes. But that statement was just wrong.
HARF: Well, right. If you look at CNN's fact checker -- no, you're right, Howie.
KURTZ: OK.
HARF: It was. CNN's fact checker, Daniel Dale, who was famous for fact checking Trump also fact checks Biden and he fact checked that as well. And so, I do think that there are fact checkers out there looking at what Joe Biden is saying. And look, there's a long history of presidents doing town halls with networks or anchors they feel more comfortable with. I do think that the fact checkers were out there after this. I don't know if they got so much attention on Twitter, but they were doing their job.
KURTZ: All right. You know, there was a period in this town hall when Biden really stumbled, conservative commentators jumped on this. I want to play it for the viewers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: And the he question is whether or not we should be in a position where you are -- why can't the experts say we know that this virus is in fact -- it's going to be -- excuse me, we know why all the drugs approved are not temporarily approved but permanently approved.
LEMON: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ (on camera): So, media conservatives, some of them saying, look, the guy has a problem. Is that a fair criticism?
HARF: Well, Joe Biden has a long-documented history with a stutter. He's talked about it. And look, I was one of the people during the Trump administration who said none of us watching on TV are doctors, none of us can diagnose what's going on with people. If they just misstate something or if something else is going on.
So, I would caution sort of everyone from trying to use what is a long history of Joe Biden not always being able to find the perfect words, he's talked about that, right, Howie, use that politically. I think that's pretty gross from some commentators on the right, quite frankly. See, I couldn't even find my word there.
KURTZ: See, that's actually my point. Everybody loses their train of thought and Biden is 78, but even us younger people --
HARF: Yes.
KURTZ: -- sometimes have that problem. All right. MSNBC and others are going pretty crazy --
HARF: Absolutely.
KURTZ: -- over audio excerpt from an interview with Donald Trump conducted by Washington Post reporters Carol Leonnig and Phil Rucker for their book in which Trump says of the protesters on January 6th, mostly a loving crowd, there was hugging and kissing, they were ushered in by police and they wanted to protest a rigged election. Is the public as interested in these Trump books as the media seem to be?
HARF: Well, they should be. We are learning so much more about the final days of the Trump administration that I think the public should be and part of journalists' responsibility is to help the public understand why this is an important story. I don't think it should just be left-leaning media that cares about that.
These comments were extraordinary. Hearing Donald Trump talk in this interview in a way that is so at odds with the reality you and I and everyone saw with our own eyes, look, we can debate what should be done about a select committee --
KURTZ: Right.
HARF: -- or how we should investigate it.
KURTZ: Right.
HARF: But it should be story that everyone cares about, Howie.
KURTZ: All right. I certainly care about the story that we are always trying to question the fairness. I got to go. Marie Harf, thanks very much.
Still to come, Megyn Kelly's Twitter war with Naomi Osaka. ESPN's Maria Taylor walks after a racial controversy. The Buzz Beater is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KURTZ (on camera): Time to see if I can beat the clock on the Buzz Beater. Go.
Megyn Kelly took a Twitter swipe at tennis star Naomi Osaka for appearing on such magazine covers such as Sports Illustrated and Time, this after bailing on the French Open because she was depressed and didn't want to deal with the press. Osaka returned serve, seeing as you were a journalist, I would think you would take the time to research what the lead times are for magazines. Because she posts for those covers last year.
Osaka accused Kelly of spewing negativity and then blocked her. Megyn she swung back. Poor Naomi Osaka blocked me while taking a shot at me. Guess she's only tough on the courts. Truth is, she just doesn't like questions she can't control, admit it.
We told you that ESPN host Maria Taylor was angry after her colleague Rachel Nichols was caught on a leaked video saying Taylor shouldn't have gotten a plum NBA assignment for racial diversity reasons. And the network briefly benches Nichols. Now Taylor has just left ESPN for NBC, this after the African-American reportedly rejected a $3 million contract that wasn't enough to overcome the bad blood. An NPR story included a photo of another black woman at ESPN.
Breitbart is upset that Tom Brady joked around with President Biden, saying many people don't believe he won the Super Bowl get it. When the Tampa Bay Buccaneers visited the White House. Keep in mind, Brady twice wouldn't join his New England teammates in saltatory visits to the Trump White House.
Now Breitbart is running such headlines as five times Tom Brady called Trump a friend before stabbing him and his supporters in the back.
Washington Post reporter Felicia Sonmez is suing her paper and former editor Martin Baron, charging she was discriminated against after saying she is a sexual assault survivor. The Post had barred her from covering stories about allege sexual assault but that ban was lifted earlier this year.
The suit says Somnez was depressed, endured physical pain, and suffered financial loss, embarrassment and humiliation. The Post had no comment.
Liberal New York Times columnist Nick Kristof is taking a leave of absence as he decides whether to run for Oregon governor as a Democrat. The Pulitzer Prize winner returned to his family farm there a couple years ago but the transition from pundit to poll sounds like a long shot.
Now I'm biased on this one as a Beatles fanatic. But Hulu's new six-hour special with Paul McCartney is fascinating journalism on many levels as producer Rick Rubin gets Paul to talk about his songwriting, his bass playing, their harmonies, their early friendship and handling their sudden fame.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: What do you remember about this?
UNKNOWN: At the time I was working with this bloke John, now I looked back and I was working with John Lennon. I brought records. I know George once said, it'd be nice if we could have a little intro. And Harrison just went do, do, do, do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KURTZ (on camera): It's kind of insane that the Beatles who ardently transformed music remain so popular half a century later and just cool that McCartney at 79 has embraced the role of Beatles historian.
That's it. There we go. That's it for this edition of MEDIA BUZZ. I'm Howard Kurtz. Senior producer Lacey Halpern has been with this program almost from the beginning and she literally, literally gets it on the air every week. There she is. Today is her last day as she moves on to a new challenge. Lacey is incredibly hard working, organized, dedicated. Just a wonderful person. We will all miss her.
I hope you have a chance to check out my podcast, Media Buzz Meter. We're getting out of time. The clock is ticking. So, I'll just say we'll be back here next Sunday, 11 Eastern. And we'll see you then with the latest buzz.
Content and Programming Copyright 2021 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2021 VIQ Media Transcription, Inc. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of VIQ Media Transcription, Inc. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.
Get all the stories you need-to-know from the most powerful name in news delivered first thing every morning to your inbox