Mayor Pete Buttigieg under scrutiny for his response to fatal police shooting in South Bend
Democratic presidential candidate heckled at town hall by residents who blamed him for not being present enough after the deadly shooting of a black man by a white police officer; reaction and analysis from 'The Five.'
This is a rush transcript from "The Five," June 24, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Juan Williams along with Lisa Boothe, Jesse Watters, Dana Perino, and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City, and this is "The Five."
The campaign of maximum pressure is on, as President Trump slaps a fresh round of sanctions on Iran today, targeting top officials, including their supreme leader and foreign minister, both nations previously teetering on the brink of war over the downing of an American drone last week. And Trump still warning the rogue nation of catastrophic consequences unless they come to the negotiating table.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I'm not looking for war. And if there is, it will be obliteration like you've never seen before, but I'm not looking to do that but you can't have a nuclear weapon. You want to talk good. Otherwise, you're going to have a bad economy for the next three years. Not as far as I'm concern. No preconditions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you'll talk --
TRUMP: Here it is, look. You can't have nuclear weapons, and if you want to talk about it, good. Otherwise, you can live in a shattered economy for a long time to come.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: Trump answered some of his critics who say he's being pushed into military actions by some of his more hawkish advisors.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you feel like you were being pushed into military action against Iran by any of your advisors?
TRUMP: I have two groups of people. I have doves and I have hawks.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have some serious hawks.
TRUMP: I have some hawks. Yeah, John Bolton is absolutely a hawk. It's up to him he'd take on the whole world at one time, OK? But that doesn't matter because I want both sides.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: And here's national security advisor, the aforementioned, John Bolton, defending his boss' canceled Iran strike.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BOLTON, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Neither, Iran nor any other hostile act or -- should mistake U.S. prudence and discretion for weakness. No one has granted them a hunting license in the Middle East.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: Dana Perino, where do you come out on the idea -- I mean, it seems like there's a big conversation among people who are Trump supporters about whether or not he should have gone forward or whether or not he exercise some discretion by saying I'm not going forward with the strike.
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Well, I'm less interested in that as I am, the actual decision and what's happening in Iran and the policy they're in, although I can talk about the others as well. But let me say this. Iran is trying to get leverage, right? So they're trying to ratchet things up. The squeeze on the sanctions has put pressure on the regime and they're trying to get some attention. So they're actually walking right up to the line.
Like what is the threshold for U.S. pain and action? And they walked right up to the line, right? So it wasn't the $130 million drone. Would have it been -- had there been people on that drone? Now, as I understand it the plans that the president was going to possibly execute had been drawn up way back when the maximum pressure campaign was first organized because they knew that Iran would try to retaliate in some way.
There's not a lot of other ways that Iran can ratchet it up further without crossing that line, is what I'm hearing the president say. His giving him another chance. I am quite shocked that the whole process story leaked, unless they wanted it to leak. That to me -- like, why would you do that to the president, unless they wanted it out there? And I guess that is possible. So I think it wasn't so much strategic and the response, but possibly the right response because the result is that the Iranians are thrown off.
They don't exactly know what's going on. And now they have this opportunity. They could come back to the table. I don't necessarily think they will. The other thing about maximum --
WILLIAMS: Wait, slow down. You don't think that they are likely to respond to the president's offer?
PERINO: To speak, no. Not like -- not right away, no. But I think these additional sanctions today, especially on the supreme leader, they might put some pressure on, but I think they have -- they have a pretty high threshold for pain as well.
WILLIAMS: Right. So, Jesse, that's (INAUDIBLE) makes a good point. So the U.S. is trying to increase pressure by putting personal -- almost personal sanctions on Khamenei and the foreign minister, but, you know, we don't have a whole lot of options because the deal had these sanctions in it and we just pulled out of the deal and said we're putting on sanctions, so we already had sanctions.
WATTERS: The line about everything was kosher when have this deal in place is a lie, Juan. After the deal was sign, you know what the Iranians did? They started launching ballistic missile tests against U.N. Security Council resolutions. They started sending shipments to North Korea with illicit goods. They started sending millions of dollars to Hamas in Hezbollah. And they started putting the Iranian revolutionary guard outpost in Iraq and Syria.
So to say that everything was contained and everything was going down this great road and it's Donald Trump who ended up making the Iranians act badly, that's just not true. The Iranians have always hated us. They always will hate us. And they will always act like bad guys. And Donald Trump as Maxine Waters said, is not the one provoking Iran. Maxine Waters actually tweeted it our drone, an American drone, her drone, was in Iranian airspace and we're provoking them to react.
I think that's ridiculous that the left is now trying to blame America for the evil that the Iranians are doing. And let's just remember this Iran nuke deal, not ratified by Congress. It was sold to the American public with lies. We bribe them with all these pallets of cash in the middle of the night. This is not a great deal to then say, oh, we're fine now.
I think what's going on now, I agree with Dana, they're trying to see how far they can get. They're trying to split the Europeans from the Americans. And I don't know if it's working. I actually think it has the opposite effect.
LISA BOOTHE, GUEST CO-HOST: Well, and I think that's the potential here, right? There might be opportunity for President Trump, especially after showing some restraint and not going through with the military strike because the more belligerent that Iran acts and the more hostile activity is that they take part in, like the blowing up of the tankers, or the increased uranium enrichment targeting, or drones, doing things like that, the more they might push these neutral allies into our corner.
So I actually think the maximum pressure campaign is working and forcing Iran's hand acting -- you know, forcing them to act sort of obliterate and hostile, so there might be opportunity. And now we see the Trump administration saying, hey, we want to sit down. We want to talk. Mike Pompeo says he's going to go to the Middle East, talk to some of our allies there.
Additionally, looking out to our Asian, European partners and trying to build a global coalition. So I think, in hindsight, President Trump showing that restraint strengthens our position in trying to get some of our allies to come over and help us and forcing Iran to the negotiating table.
WILLIAMS: So, Greg, the question is -- you know, going back to Dana's point, do you think that this makes it more likely that we will have talks with Iran?
GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: You know, I hate getting invested in this story. I think unlike most Americans --
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: -- four decades of the same crap, it's like being in a relationship that goes nowhere. But I'm hopeful. I see two possibilities that give me hope. Number one, the threat by Iran to down a drone. You know, it's expensive. It costs us money, but that once removed from killing people, right? I said this on Thursday -- I think it was Thursday. I said it's stuff versus stuff. In the modern world, we should be really happy that we're not hurling bodies at each other, that this has become a thing about a drone and it's -- they're going to hit another one of our drone, that should upset us, but it's not taking down a plane of people.
If the media saw that as being pro-war, how stupid is that to assume that the fact that technology might reduce bloodshed is seen as pro-war? That is idiotic. And to that point, you asked about who is pushing Trump into military action. It's not the hawks. It's the media who mock him for his indecisiveness. They're basically goading him into doing something.
Now the second point that gives me hope, this feels a little bit like the North Korea scenario, which produced hostilities, if you remember. You may not agree with it, but the fact is we're in a better situation than we were before. It's because Trump offered two paths. The first path is you can go this way and it will be bad for you, which is the, quote, obliteration. Or you go this way and it's going to be great for you, right? You're going to have a great economy. And he says I'll meet with you, no preconditions because he doesn't see meeting as a zero-sum gain.
It's not like -- if you meet with me, America is gonna suffer. He doesn't see meetings that way because he's a salesman. He'll meet with anybody. So I do think to your point, will there be a meeting? I think so. It will be long-term. Hell, it's been 40 years. What's another five years?
WILLIAMS: Wow.
GUTFELD: Yeah.
WILLIAMS: Forty, wow.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: There's a sense of urgency to this moment, but --
GUTFELD: No, there isn't. It's only urgency because the media doesn't know how to cover this.
PERINO: But there's also -- where all the stuff that has leaked (INAUDIBLE) is the stuff that you can't see, and that is the cyber warfare that we can do a lot better than we used to be able to so. So, those are things that aren't announced. And Iran is not like the most transparent society where you can look in and see exactly how it's crippled any of their financial institutions or their military.
GUTFELD: I'm also am amazed that the media mocks Trump for sparing lives. He acknowledged the disproportionate nature of killing humans when a drone goes down. That is something we actually talked about on this show, and that's actually an antiwar position if you define war as killing people.
WILLIAMS: Right, but --
BOOTHE: But, basically, whatever position Trump holds, the media and his critics hold the opposite. So, I mean, he could literally say I want to give all illegal immigrants amnesty and Democrats would support the wall.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: Well, no, no. But I think Dana's point about the process and reporting is very -- key here because part of the process was does the president know about the human cost of this action? And he said it just came to him as information in the last moment, and then the process reporting seems to indicate --
GUTFELD: I think -- I don't think there's a difference between learning, you know, 10 minutes and an hour before what? I don't think you're getting the whole information on that. That's part of the reporting. But the reporters are out of shape right now. Did you notice that?
They have had such a hard time reporting on real news. They're like a boxer that hasn't been in the ring for four years. So they're having a problem with the story.
WILLIAMS: All right, President Trump is at it again, trolling those in the media who says he won't leave the White House if he loses. Greg breaks that down next on "The Five."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUTFELD: Here's a theory: In most contests, the team having more fun wins, and the team that loses its sense of humor loses, period. Take Friday when President Trump posted a meme predicting he'd be president forever and ever.
Yeah, that's real. Normal people, I.E., people not in the media, and therefore not under the spell of irrational obsession saw this as lighthearted trolling mocking the triggered Trump critics, like this fella here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL MAHER, HBO: If he loses, Trump, he won't go. I've been saying that since before he got elected.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: And he was a comedian once. It's so obvious it hurts, but still the media reports Trump's jokes as dire warnings, a media headline screams, Trump posts insane twitter video threatening to be president for eternity, threatening. What moron writes this stuff? It's hard to say really. They've got a staff of them. I'm anxiously awaiting their expose on why the chicken really crossed the road or does time fly if you throw a clock through the air? I bet that gets three Pinocchio's.
How do these people get so, to use the medical term, stupid? Well, the media once operating under the guise of journalism are now just hall monitors in pundits think. Their jobs reduced to screaming, look, what someone's said on TV. It's a joke, but not to us. They barely get out of bed anymore. Their workplace attire, sweatpants and an open bathrobe. But that's today's media reporting on you as you make them the butt of the joke, like Chuck.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHUCK TODD, NBC NEWS: You -- you have joked about a third term. You've joked about --
TRUMP: The only joke. I joke and I say --
(CROSSTALK)
TODD: OK.
TRUMP: Yes.
TODD: You will accept the results. You will accept -- whatever happens in 2020. You lose, you'll be like, you're not going to like it but you walk out.
TRUMP: Fact I've said it in a speech recently. I said watch. We'll drive the media crazy. Let's go for a third term and then a fourth, and some of the media said he's going to do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: What a treat, the troll reporting on how they got trolled. It's too easy and almost unfair. To think we're going to have at least two, three, or four terms of this.
Dana, do they -- how do they -- did they deliberately see jokes as the real thing or it really is a disorder? It's becoming one?
PERINO: Oh, God. Obviously, that was funny.
GUTFELD: Yes.
PERINO: Also he's 73. Obviously, not happening. They -- obviously, you can't have more than two terms. It takes a constitutional amendment. They can't even joke about that. But if you talk about abolishing the Electoral College --
GUTFELD: Yes.
PERINO: -- like that is -- all of a sudden, like that's actually real. That's not a joke.
GUTFELD: That is -- good point. A good point. Jesse?
WATTERS: Yeah, I just like watching the Democrats chase their own tail. It's so stupid. They're humorless. This is like what you said in the beginning, if Trump tweets something that he's never going to leave, then Mar say he's not going to leave. Then he asked him about leaving and he says I'm just joking. And then they run story about the president might not be joking, he could be serious. When in fact, it's Hillary and the left who hasn't accepted the last results of the election.
Remember, they called him an illegitimate Russian hacker for two years. And then you have all the holdovers like Yates and McCabe and Comey trying to constantly undermine him from within. But I think the strategy for the media, Greg, is that they're trying to give the Democrats voters a shot of adrenaline and say, you guys need to beat Trump by a larger margin.
It can't be a small margin. It can't be like a million votes. You have to beat him handily in the Electoral College because this guy is a felon. This guy is a cheater. This guy is a willing polluter. And if it's really close he's going to say there's fraud. He's going to say you guys cheated and he's going to stay in office, so I think that's the strategy.
GUTFELD: What's the amendment again that limits your terms?
PERINO: I don't know.
GUTFELD: I don't --
WILLIAMS: Well, he talks about article two all the time, and article two establishes the executive branch and says that it's two terms.
GUTFELD: Yeah. So I think he should -- next thing he should say we should repeal that.
WILLIAMS: Repeal it.
GUTFELD: Yes, repeal it.
WILLIAMS: Well, you know the thing about this is -- on the one hand, I said this to you before.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: At the end of 2016 race when people asked him what happens if he loses? He says, well, maybe, maybe not, I'll accept the results, right? And I don't know if he was joking there, but that's what he said.
GUTFELD: You know he was.
WILLIAMS: Then he says to Chuck Todd in the same interview, he says, oh, you know, I won the popular vote, and Chuck Todd says what are you talking about? He says, oh, well, judicial watch had a suit in California. Of course, that suit was about people who were -- should have been taken off the registration. There's no evidence of fraudulent voting taking place.
So, to me, the question is why are we having this segment? Why are we discussing it?
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: No. You know why we're doing it because --
GUTFELD: It's fun.
BOOTHE: You just proved Greg's point. The left cannot have fun. You take this so seriously.
WILLIAMS: No, because he says -- but he says things, Lisa, that make you wonder, does he have authoritarian instincts?
PERINO: Oh, come on.
(CROSSTALK)
BOOTHE: You can't watch that and not crack up? I love the fact that he's doing more these mainstream interviews because I think it's absolutely hilarious. The scene with him and Stephanopoulos in the car talking about if there's collusion or not made me laugh out loud. This is hilarious. And people make it so easy and easier if they make it, the more he's going to want to do it. So you actually benefit yourself by not overreacting to it because he'd be probably be less inclined to want to do it.
But it's not just Hillary Clinton that can't accept the results of the election for 2016. You have Stacey Abram who is still saying that she's governor of Georgia. She lost by 55,000 votes in 2018. And you have people like Joe Biden and Pete Buttigieg, all these Democrats that know better that are saying that somehow she would have been the governor of Georgia despite the fact that the 2018 midterm elections in Georgia saw near presidential levels in turn out.
So clearly, nobody was suppressed. There was a tremendous amount of people that turned out. She just lost. They didn't vote for her.
WILLIAMS: Well, I think that you should keep in mind that Brian Kemp, who's now the governor, was --
BOOTHE: Juan --
WILLIAMS: -- the attorney general and was acting in such --
BOOTHE: He won. He's the governor.
WILLIAMS: He's the one --
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: -- was, in fact --
BOOTHE: Not governor.
WILLIAMS: -- closing polling places --
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: Anyway, my point to you, Lisa, is the president is a powerful man. We should not be sitting here having to debate, is he joking?
GUTFELD: It's fun. We're not debating it. Juan, we're not debating that he's joking because we know he's joking.
WILLIAMS: Look, was he joking in 2016?
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: What?
(LAUGHTER)
WATTERS: Maybe.
WILLIAMS: It could be.
WATTERS: Maybe Gore was really president.
WILLIAMS: Just like Stacey Abrams --
(CROSSTALK)
WATTERS: Todd should be asking the Democrats, hey, will you accept the results of the 2020 election?
WILLIAMS: She says that he doesn't consider him a legitimate governor. I think Al Gore conceded. I think Hillary Clinton conceded.
PERINO: Al Gore and Stacy Abrams had a different --
WILLIAMS: No, I just think that -- I think Stacy Abrams --
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: You can marry your siblings but don't make jokes. All right, coming up, Mayor Pete heads back to Indiana for a town hall and chaos erupts.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you want -- do you want our vote, which I doubt you're going to get it, do your job, just you could have a moral compass when you leave this place.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: He's under fire from his own community. Does it spell trouble for his candidacy?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PERINO: Mayor Pete Buttigieg facing some angry constituents in his hometown of South Bend this weekend, while taking a break from the campaign trail. The 2020 Democratic contender held a town hall where he came under intense scrutiny from residents who blamed him for not being president enough -- present enough, excuse me, after the deadly shooting of a black man by a white police officer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE BUTTIGIEG, SOUTH BEND MAYOR: Sure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).
BUTTIGIEG: Sure. So --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If everyone can just -- we're going to allow him to speak if everyone can just calm down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: All right. So we know that the debates are coming up this week. Greg, somewhat difficult, if your run -- if you already have a job, so if you're actually are a governor or a mayor where you're actually in charge of things to also run for president at the same time because you're -- everyone is going to say you've been away. It's all your fault. But these guys, at least if you're mayor, you actually have to have face-to-face contact with people. Unlike if you're in Washington where you're not --
GUTFELD: It's so funny too, because, you know, this applies actually more to Mayor de Blasio than this guy because de Blasio is worse, far worse mayor than Mayor Pete. Everyone is doing a segment on Mayor Pete now. Some guy that almost nobody knew four months ago, and that is the curse of the spotlight, is that the spotlight cuts both ways.
He was probably thinking in his head that, you know what, I'm not going to end up being the nominee, but this is going to be good for me later because my face will be -- I'll be on these debates, everyone will think I'm awesome, but that last for like three months, because all of a sudden, people find out that you can't even run your city. How are you going to run a country?
And he, you know, it is really hard in that kind of situation to remain calm when you're faced with an emotional situation. But looking down at your notes and saying like, you know, I didn't ask you to vote for me. He just came off as -- he came off as a really small candidate. Not -- I hate to say presidential because what is presidential anymore?
PERINO: What is that? What is that?
(LAUGHTER)
PERINO: There's a city councilman named Oliver Davis, and his the longest- serving black member of the council, he had -- he basically said that he appreciates that he was there, and he said very few people could have withstood what he went through without completely losing it.
But I have a question, do you think that Mayor Pete should not go to the debates this week and focus on his job as mayor, or go to the debate and then face the possible backlash from people saying he should be back home working on this issue?
WILLIAMS: No, I think he should go to the debate. I mean, he's running for president. But he's got to be able to handle both at one time. I mean, this is the reality of a guy who is a small town mayor. And you've got to be able to deal with crisis because on the national level, you're going to have to deal with people who really are angry at you and screaming and maybe threatening in a way that, you know --
PERINO: I think as mayor, you actually end up having to see people more face-to-face than --
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: In fact, the guy that you cited who's the longest-serving member of the -- what they call the common council in South Bend said that he not only talked to the press before he talked with the family. He then went on to not attend a vigil, where you had black reds (ph) and you could get face-to-face and let people understand where you're coming from. He's never explained why the body cam on the police officer didn't work--
PERINO: Or wasn't turned on.
WILLIAMS: I don't know, he said it didn't work. But then also, you've seen a decline in terms of the percentage of black people on the police force during his term and he fired the black police chief. So, there is a lot going on here that's kind of embedded, maybe it's the history that's now come to bite him. PERINO: Jesse, it's basically like a one two punch. There is the loss of life and then the community's frustration, and then the questions about what happened. But also, it's an area where he's already politically weak.
WATTERS: Right. He can't afford to lose any more black support. He's close to zero already and this is really, really going to hurt him. He handled it poorly as Juan said. He skipped the vigil, called the media before he called the family, spoke to the police before he did this community event.
The community event was so poorly produced to have him on a little lectern, detached, emotionless, sounding wonky and not really responding passionately to the anger and the pain from his own community was just awful. He needs to get out on the streets. He needs to get in the neighborhood. He needs to hug people; he needs to see their tears and respond and immerse himself in the anguish. And there is an opportunity here, I mean he needs to nationalize this issue, if he wants any hope for rebounding from this. He needs to make this a core issue. He needs to talk about it at the debate. And that's the only shot he has.
But he did handle a few things well, you know he's talking about bringing the DOJ in, appointing an independent prosecutor. He has taken a little ownership of it, but it's such a murky situation, because of the body camera and the fact that the victim's body was transported not by an ambulance, but by a police vehicle. But at the same time, the guy allegedly threw a knife at the officer, was rummaging around cars and has a rap sheet with weapons and cocaine charges, so you don't really know what the truth was.
PERINO: Right, Lisa last word.
BOOTHE: And you had mentioned African American voters and that's particularly troubling for him, if you look at states like South Carolina, where black voters make up about 60 percent of the Democratic primary vote. So, that's going to be a big challenge for him there. But look, if you're using your mayoral record as a launchpad for your presidential ambitions and that's what you're running on, but that record comes under scrutiny and you're called out for not being strong on that record, then what do you actually have to run on.
So, you know that's ultimately going to be the big challenge moving forward. And then also, there is no reasoning with an angry mob. I mean when people are upset, when they're yelling, when emotions are high, he is trying to reason to them. There is no reasoning. And so that's also a challenge to try to get through and talk to some of these people, because they're angry.
WILLIAMS: Well, I'd just say, I don't think that was a mob, I think they were trying to express, they weren't attacking anybody.
BOOTHE: When people are screaming at you--
WILLIAMS: Yes, but--
BOOTHE: And screaming, it's very difficult--
PERINO: Welcome politics is some of the hardest politics.
WILLIAMS: It's like--
PERINO: All politics is local.
GUTFELD: Is it really?
PERINO: There you have it.
GUTFELD: Can I make a point to what Juan brought up Biden. And this was the point I want to make, Ed Rendell said that this isn't a generational thing. It's not just old guys like Biden facing the accusation of racial insensitivity. This thing is, it's going to keep coming up.
PERINO: Very good point. I'm glad that you made it.
GUTFELD: Yes, it just came to me.
PERINO: Ed Rendell for helping us. All right. Bernie Sanders up in the states before the big Democratic debate this week with his free college tuition plan. But who is going to pay for that? Up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WATTERS: Yes, it is. First week everybody.
GUTFELD: Socialist.
WATTERS: Socialist Bernie Sanders is up to his new tricks, his old tricks, I should say. This time revealing a big government plan to wipe out $1.6 trillion with a T in student loan debt owed by more than 40 million Americans.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Today, we are in fact offering a revolutionary proposal. This proposal completely eliminates student debt in this country and ends the absurdity of sentencing an entire generation, the millennial generation to a lifetime of debt. We will make a full and complete education, a human right in America. It is time to hit the reset button. Under the proposal that we introduce today, all student debt would be canceled in six months.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATTERS: So, how is Crazy Bernie going to pay for all this. Well, he plans to tax Wall Street of course. All this coming just two days before the first Democratic presidential debate. Dana, what I found interesting in this, a lot of interesting things about this proposal, one of which, it's not as progressive as he sells it, because a lot of these people taking out loans are graduate school people. So, he's bailing out PhD's and NBAs, people in the highest income bracket.
PERINO: Right. And this plus Medicare for All, which he's also for, I mean when Chuck Blahous at Mercatus said, it would cost $32 trillion to do Medicare for all. Bernie Sanders people, they were like, yes, that's probably about right. I think there is another $1.6 trillion. Yes, that's probably about right. That's fine. But the ideas melt on contact with the second question like the gentlest push back makes people go, oh! wait. Well, so would it be retroactive? Why is it just millennials? Why shouldn't it just be teachers and not PhD's.
If this happens then who is going to - should college employees and teachers beyond government level salaries, then. Are we going to do that like all of those types of things people, actually we are not for that? That's it. Is there something that we should do as a country to try to get a handle on this, because is it a slow moving train where you are going to have to bail out banks again, because they're going to have all these people in debt and the government put forward a bill in 2007 for people that went into public service and said, if you have student loan debt, we'll try to help you figure out a way to pay. But then it wasn't executed well.
WATTERS: No.
PERINO: And basically, it's all like throw up in the air, so people are still - I understand the struggle and I think there should be some more innovative ways to try to address it. But just paying it all off is probably not going to fly.
WATTERS: Because Greg, this doesn't actually address going forward the high cost of tuition.
GUTFELD: I was happy you said willy nilly. It's not used on TV enough. I don't believe this is a struggle. The average student debt lowest in Utah is 18 grands. Highest is 31 grands in New York City average. That's about the same as an auto loan. We aren't getting emotional over people's car loans, are we? We're not saying, oh! Mike, we don't - we simply just have my Ford pickup cost me $300 a month.
Yes, but you love that truck, it gets you to work, your education gets you to work. We are to your point bailing out people who kind of are OK. I would actually be for how his payment mechanism if it were for veterans or for something like that, but the payment mechanism is kind of interesting. It's like - it's basically taxing things that well whatever.
WATTERS: It's a slick way how he frenzies. That's like taxing Wall Street.
GUTFELD: Yes.
WATTERS: We bailed them out.
GUTFELD: The other thing - I don't think loans just should be canceled at all, because that's the foundation of basically financial life. It's like if you want a house or a car or an education, you get a loan and a loan means, it's a loan. It doesn't become--
PERINO: Free.
GUTFELD: It's not free. It's the entire system that allows prudent people to afford something that they couldn't afford. And if you suddenly pull the rug out of that then what's left. Then you can have a new sheet - when you get out - when you're getting a loan for your house, it's this thick, right. They're going to add another sheet that - you have to sign to forfeit future debt forgiveness. They're just going to have to add something else that it says you promise that now you will never - because that's what you're going to have to do, because if loans don't mean anything, you're not going to have any more loans. BOOTHE: And here's the thing too, I mean if you took out tons of debt to get like a Women's studies degree from Harvard or something, I don't feel bad for you because that was a dumb decision, so you should bear the consequences of that. And what's hilarious about this, it's actually an elitist proposal, because as you mentioned, the higher earners are the ones that make up a disproportionate amount of the student loan debt. It also ends up being a bailout for these universities, because they know they're ultimately going to get pay out.
GUTFELD: Right. True.
BOOTHE: So, that's not good. And too, this is obviously a clear direct play for political purposes, because he's trying to outdo Elizabeth Warren and her whole you know free college tuition et cetera, et cetera. Also, he crushed it with millennials in 2016. So, this is also a play to those people to say, hey, come vote for me, support me when I'm running for 2020.
WATTERS: Don't get into a bidding war with a socialist. I'll see your 2 trillion. I'll ease it too. I'll erase all the debt.
GUTFELD: Play book, have you seen those chips.
WATTERS: Yes, with tax money. Juan.
WILLIAMS: I can't believe you guys some days. This is a real issue. This is a serious issue for people with unbearable student debt.
WATTERS: Yes.
GUTFELD: Unbearable.
WILLIAMS: Let me just say this to you. Historically, I think I'm surrounded by Republicans who would say, oh! you know we have to have responsible spending. But I noticed that at the moment we have rising debt, rising deficits and I don't hear any hawkish talk from the--
GUTFELD: Learn from the best, the Democrats.
WILLIAMS: This is wasteful. And secondly, guess what? Debt relief for students mean you have more educated people, people who therefore earn more money. People who are taxed more, people who are more productive citizens. This is important and it's a serious problem. And to make it out like, oh! these are a bunch of bums and this is just so wrong.
GUTFELD: No one said bums. But I'm thinking about the people who paid their debts.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
GUTFELD: I'm thinking about them. You're making it like it's no big deal. Just give him the money.
WILLIAMS: No big deal. No, I'm not saying--
GUTFELD: You just said that.
WILLIAMS: Don't give them. I'm saying that we as Americans, which are right to make an investment in educating our people and it's the young people who wouldn't have opportunity if it wasn't for education, we should be supporting.
GUTFELD: That's a nice way of saying giving him the money.
BOOTHE: What about the fact this benefits the rich though?
WILLIAMS: I'm sorry.
BOOTHE: What about the fact this ends up benefiting the rich.
WILLIAMS: No, it ends up benefiting us as the American people.
PERINO: What about people that paid off their loan four years ago.
WILLIAMS: It's not reparations. Again--
GUTFELD: No, I'm talking about reparations for people who already paid.
WILLIAMS: No. You know what's reparations. What we did for Wall Street, when we said, oh! mainstream take a walk. We're going to bail you out Wall Street. Taxing stock transaction, bond transaction, I think that's legitimate.
WATTERS: All right. Next on "The Five." Yet another fan struck by a foul ball during a Major League Baseball game yesterday. Well, Major League Baseball started taking stadiums safety more seriously. Ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BOOTHE: The scary scene that has become all too familiar at baseball stadiums across the country. Another fan this time a young woman was hospitalized after being struck by a hard-hitting foul ball at Dodger Stadium over the weekend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The one two come Bellinger is a foul. Just beyond the protective netting reading his lips. Cody said he, smoked in the face.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOOTHE: It's a disturbing trend that calls into question what Major League Baseball is doing to protect its fans. Juan, you're the biggest baseball fan among us. Cody Bellinger, the player that accidentally hit this foul ball and hit the young woman has said that he would support increased netting as a fan. Do you support that?
WILLIAMS: Yes. I don't see any reason not to. I think my wife disagrees with me, but I don't I don't even know--
BOOTHE: Why does she disagree with you?
WILLIAMS: I think she views it as a distraction from the game and you don't feel as close to the game as you would without it. But I think that it's a necessary safety measure. I mean to my mind getting hit by a foul ball is pretty rare in the first place. You know I mean you're more likely to get hit by a power ball. I mean you - to me you could have a chance of getting hit by lightning, but you still go outside. I still go to the baseball game. I just worry that there are people who will say that they treasure being right there with the players and don't understand. It's really dangerous.
BOOTHE: Well, so Jesse, I mean does it take away the experience if you have netting in front of you. Does that object your view? Does it take away from the experience.
WATTERS: A little bit, let me assume that Greg Gutfeld commentary on this one and say that we're over sensationalizing something that usually does not carry the risk that everybody says it does. We read the numbers, you like numbers, right.
PERINO: I love numbers.
WATTERS: OK. Automobile and motorcycle racing. Cycling. Cricket, hockey, all account for much more fan deaths and injuries than baseball and you know they don't even include golf, because I looked up the golf stats. Brooks Koepka, Phil Mickelson, Ernie Els and Tiger Woods have hit fans in the eye, head, face and neck recently. I mean all of those other sports seem much more dangerous than baseball, so it's good to have perspective.
BOOTHE: You know what's also dangerous, high school field hockey. I got hit in the head right here and it dropped down a two black eyes for homecoming.
WATTERS: That sticks.
BOOTHE: I was looking awesome. So, yes, I was in good luck. But Greg as a fan if you go to these games and we see this happen, you go to hockey games, you go to baseball games, you see a puck fly in air, it hits someone. Baseball seems to work - don't you sort of assume that risk when you go to a game. GUTFELD: I think it's not - that is not the real risk. The real risk is always in the restroom. That's why I don't go - I don't go to professional sports because of the conditions of their bathroom. As somebody who lived grew up in the Bay Area and if you're at home and you had been to Candlestick Park to see the San Francisco Giants or the 49ers and remember the trough, when you're six years old or seven years old and you've got to use the trough where your head is at the knee of grown men--
WATTERS: Your head is still there.
GUTFELD: You will never use a bathroom in a public, any public setting again. So, I sympathize with the flying balls. But I'm telling you--
PERINO: I think they're better.
BOOTHE: Dana help. We're going to go after this.
GUTFELD: That's worse.
PERINO: I think the bathrooms are better now at these parks.
GUTFELD: They're always bad.
WATTERS: You would know, Dana. A season ticket holder.
PERINO: make it to like one game a year if I can go to the box.
WATTERS: I'm going to choose--
PERINO: I'm afraid to go to a baseball game, because I am afraid of getting hit like this. And like for hockey, they raise the level of the Protector. And I think that Major League Baseball is worried about losing any more fans. It's already hard for them to get people to watch it on TV. They want families to be able to go. And I think that parents might choose not to go. So, I'm fine with whatever they decide.
WATTERS: You can sit in other places behind--
PERINO: In the box.
WATTERS:
GUTFELD: If you sit in the box.
WATTERS: You don't have to sit in the first baseline.
GUTFELD: You're going to get hit by those sushi prices.
WILLIAMS: But let me ask you, Dana.
BOOTHE: And avoid the bathrooms.
WILLIAMS: Dana, what do you think it's more dangerous, going to the baseball park or driving a car. PERINO: Obviously driving a car.
WILLIAMS: Yes, I think that's--
BOOTHE: All right. We've got to end it there. Fascinating discussion though. All right, One More Thing is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WILLIAMS: It's time now for One More Thing. Jesse.
WATTERS: You OK, Juan?
WILLIAMS: I was just kind of lost in my mind.
WATTERS: OK. All right. So, one of the best things to watch is in football practice when we have the linemen try to field punts and call for fair catches. Look at these guys at the University of Wisconsin. They usually do this, so the team doesn't have to run sprints. You know one of these guys couldn't catch one. You know it's not easy being 300 pounds and trying to feel the heat. There you go. All right, nice catch. All right, and also someone who never drops the ball, Sean Hannity whose show will be up here tonight at 9 PM.
WILLIAMS: All right. Dana.
PERINO: All right. Scientists in the UK had this amazing discovery. They said, that grey seals can actually mimic the human voice and even sing a song like Twinkle Twinkle Little Star. Watch. Not too bad. Sounds better than me. That was Zolo (ph), University of St. Andrews in Scotland. They say that they might be able to help it with speech therapy maybe someday for people and they could learn the words to a seal song.
WILLIAMS: All right. Animals are great, Greg.
GUTFELD: Not that one. But these are. Greg's owls taking a bath. All right, we've got three owls taking a bath real quick. I want you to vote on which one's the sexiest. Let's go to number one. First owl taking a bath. Check out that wingspan. That is a sexy, sexy owl. Let's go to the next owl please. This is an elegant owl right here. Oh! there he is. Get himself clean. He knows how to get clean. He's in a hurry, he's got a job interview in an hour, Special Report. And then we've got another owl, finally owl - final owl. Look at this little coy owl. He wants you to jump on in, you make me sick little owl. Shaking it up. All right. That's enough. Owl.
BOOTHE: One.
WILLIAMS: One.
WATTERS: Three.
GUTFELD: Three.
PERINO: Two.
GUTFELD: One wins.
WILLIAMS: All right. Anyway, quickly look up in the sky, it's a plane, it's a bird. Nope, it's a Wallenda. They're back. Yes. Take a look at this video. The brother sister act Nik and Lijana walked a tightrope between two skyscrapers in New York's Times Square. It was a big risk for Lijana as she fell in 2017, shattered every bone in her face. Daredevil act was streamed live for the world to see.
GUTFELD: Oh! God.
WILLIAMS: They wore safety harnesses because of city law. But boy, you couldn't get me up there anyway. You're up, Lisa.
BOOTHE: All right. Well, how's this for a greeting. So, a dad at Maryland recorded picking up his son every single day for a month. And that is that, it's pretty cute.
GUTFELD: Cute.
WILLIAMS: That was cute. All right. Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of "The Five." "Special Report" is up next.
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