Marianne Williamson: No way I'm dropping out
Democratic presidential candidate Marianne Williamson on her fight to stay in the 2020 race on 'The Story.'
This is a rush transcript from "The Story," October 17, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MARTHA MACCALLUM, ANCHOR: I like that little drummer boy. Hi, Bret. Thank you.
So, tonight on “The Story,” everybody. Byron York, says that the momentum is shifting on impeachment and that the Democrats' strategy is moving as well. He will explain. Kimberley Strassel, here tonight as well on what she writes about in her new book, The Relentless Crusade To Destroy Trump.
And 2020 Democratic candidate Marianne Williamson, joins me. She says, after what she saw on this stage on Tuesday night, she is not leaving this Democrat race for nomination -- for the nomination for president. Also, Dr. Drew is with us, his stunning take on the real story as he sees it from his position on the nation's opioid crisis.
Also tonight, a stunning revelation about this iconic World War II photo. The daughter whose father never told her or anyone else about his real role in that moment, she will join me live coming up tonight. Stick around for that.
But first, the big story in Washington this evening, Democrats moving the goalposts on impeachment. It is clear that this investigation no longer revolves solely around the president's request to investigate Joe Biden. Instead, Democrats on the House Intel Committee are now honing in on a new word which you heard here last night, and the word is extortion.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ERIC SWALWELL, D-CALIF.: We have a crime, extortion.
REP. GERRY CONNOLLY, D-VA: To essentially extort the president -- the new president of the Ukraine.
REP. JOHN GARAMENDI, D-CALIF.: The president was attempting to extort the Ukrainian government.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Byron York, chief political correspondent for the Washington Examiner and a Fox News contributor joins me now. Byron, good to see you tonight. The piece that you wrote about this fueled a lot of our conversation with Eric Swalwell last night where we read him passages of the Kurt Volker transcript where he was clearly being pushed in certain directions for better answers, you might say, from Adam Schiff.
BYRON YORK, CONTRIBUTOR: Well, you know, in the past Democrats have had kind of a hard time pointing to a specific crime -- a specific law that the president violated in the whole Ukraine matter. The inspector general with the intelligence community had said that the president may have committed a campaign finance violation, which was kind of obscure. So, they've come up with this idea of struck of extortion.
And what's interesting is they kind of tested this idea in their examination of Kurt Volker, who was the former envoy to Ukraine. And basically, they wanted Volker to say that the Ukraine -- that the Ukrainians felt terribly pressured by President Trump, who was demanding that they investigate Biden in 2016, and at the same time, withholding aid from them.
So, therefore, they felt very pressured. And Volker, said, look, that just didn't happen. I mean, I was there and it didn't happen because the Ukrainians did not know that the aid was being withheld.
In fact, they thought things were going pretty well. They got a visit from John Bolton, who was then the national security advisor. They felt everything was actually on track and did not feel pressured by the president.
MACCALLUM: So, Byron, let me ask you about that. Because I brought that up with Congressman Swalwell last night, and he said, well, so many months had passed since the last aid that they got. So, obviously, they knew that the aid wasn't coming through. What do you say to that?
YORK: Well, the -- if you listen to Volker, he said it was absolutely clear to him that Ukrainians -- and by this, he meant not just President Zelensky, but everybody in the Ukrainian government did not know about this, and as a matter of fact, learned about it.
MACCALLUM: Zelensky said it, right?
YORK: And they learned about it in an article in POLITICO in late August. Remember, the Trump and Zelensky phone call was on July 25th. And in late August, on the 28th to the 29th, they read this article in POLITICO and find out that's what happened. And they, they didn't have a clue.
MACCALLUM: Yes. And within a couple of weeks, they had it released anyway through --
(CROSSTALK)
YORK: Yes, on September 11.
MACCALLUM: Through -- You know, other decisions that were made that. I want to play for you this Mick Mulvaney moment today that has gotten a ton of attention. And Adam Schiff said and Eric Swalwell said, well, there you have it, you know.
Now, Mick Mulvaney is also part of this extortion plan and he's confirmed it. But I want to play it -- you know, in a fuller context in turn -- in the way that he spoke about this today, and get your thoughts on it. Let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICK MULVANEY, ACTING WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: President Trump is not a big fan of foreign aid. Never has been. Still isn't. He doesn't like spending money overseas, especially when it's poorly spent, and that is exactly what drove this decision.
I've been in the office a couple of times with him, talking about this. And he said, look, Mick, this is a corrupt place. Everybody knows it's a corrupt place. Plus, I'm not sure that the other European countries are helping them out either.
And the President did not like that. Sometime -- I know as long answer to your question, but I'm still going. So, that was -- those were the driving factors. Did he also mentioned to me and pass the corruption related to the DNC server? Absolutely. No question about that.
But that's it, and that's why we held up the money.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: So, that's it, that's why we held up the money. That got a lot of attention today, Byron. What's your interpretation of what you heard in there today?
YORK: Well, I want to thank you for playing the longer quote, because I'm listening to the other programs and all they play is that last quote as if this was done for the purpose of finding out more information about the DNC server.
And, by the way, nobody has any evidence that the DNC server was somehow in Ukraine. That's not a thing, actually. But it -- what Mulvaney said about the president's attitude toward foreign aid, and about his attitude toward Ukraine is absolutely correct. And the president was by all accounts skeptical of that.
Remember the whole Paul Manafort mess had involved Ukraine. And it involved this mysterious black ledger that allegedly showed these cash payments to Manafort.
I mean, Ukraine just appeared to be in the president's mind and many other peoples too, just a mess of corruption.
MACCALLUM: All right, let me ask you about two other quick topics. One is Rick Perry resigning. He is -- you know, the reporting around Rick Perry with regard to this Ukraine story is that he became part of this sort of smaller team to put pressure on Ukraine to continue to investigate corruption there. What do you make of him leaving by the end of the year?
YORK: Well, he is -- he is definitely going to be talking to the House at some point. Either that or resisting a subpoena from somebody in the House. You know, it's not clear when Rick Perry announced his intention to resign, he said it would be no time soon had nothing to do with this.
Clearly, the testimony today of Gordon Sondland -- testimony of others has suggested that Rick Perry was involved with this. That there was Rudy Giuliani involved and a few other officials. So, clearly connected to that seems to me.
MACCALLUM: Yes, you know, it's interesting that the DOJ came out today and said that the statement by Mr. Mulvaney left them utterly confused and angry because there was this linkage between the Durham investigation and the pressure put on Ukraine sort of, you know, if you don't help us with that investigation, then, you might not get the money.
They do -- they want very -- they're very conscious that they want to be separate from the Rudy Guiliani part of this investigation, which may also involve Rick Perry, will say.
YORK: Absolutely. We must say that the Durham investigation we know has gone international.
MACCALLUM: True.
YORK: We know the William Barr was in Italy, looking for information. Yes, there is stuff to find out about in Ukraine. There's stuff in Australia and Great Britain. There are a lot of sort of tentacles in that 2016 story that Durham will presumably be looking at.
MACCALLUM: Yes, but they -- they're trying to keep it in their own lane. So, we'll see where it goes.
YORK: Exactly.
MACCALLUM: Byron, thank you very much. Always great to talk to you.
YORK: Thank you, Martha.
MACCALLUM: Good to see you tonight.
Coming up next, my guest was inside the room today during the questioning of Gordon Sondland, the U.S. ambassador to the European Union. Congressman Mike McCaul is a top Republican on the House Foreign Affairs Committee. Congressman, great to see you tonight. Thank you for coming back on the program.
REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL, R-TX: Me too, Martha.
MACCALLUM: What can you share with us, because look, what we heard so far with regard to that testimony was that Gordon Sondland expressed that he was disappointed that there was a construct to kind of go through the former mayor of New York Rudy Giuliani, the current attorney for President Trump and this other group of people, rather than go through the normal channels of the ambassador's office in the State Department.
MCCAUL: Right. Now, I have to be a little bit careful. Adam Schiff has put a gag rule on this. Like, you know, I talk about what's been made public out of the committee in his opening statement.
He does refer to Giuliani operating as sort of -- at some times in conjunction with the State Department, sometimes not. But I think what is like a common theme with the testimony that's been made public is that there is no quid pro quo here. And I think that's very clear from the presence of phone conversation.
I was a former federal prosecutor in the Public Integrity Section. They reviewed that phone call and found that there is no criminal violation. I think that's been talked about very much. And so, I don't think there's anything really earth-shattering that I've seen come out these depositions. And as a top Republican on Foreign Affairs, I've been sitting through all of them.
MACCALLUM: All right, let me ask you a little bit about the Turkey and Syria situation. Because obviously, there are a lot of people in your party who do not like the way that this was handled.
The president came out today after a 120-hour ceasefire was announced after discussions with President Erdogan of Turkey and vice president Pence and Secretary of State Pompeo. And here's what the president said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT: It's a great day for the United States. It's a great day for Turkey. Great day for the Kurds. It's really a great day for civilization. It's a great day for civilization. So, I just want to thank everybody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: How did you vote on that resolution? Were you in favor of the president's actions with regard to -- you know, backing out of that buffer zone, and do you agree with what he said there, Congressman McCaul?
MCCAUL: Well, I agree with what he -- I just got a phone call from the vice president, updating me on the cease-fire negotiations. I commend the vice president and Secretary Pompeo, and president for ending this bloodshed.
I have my concerns about withdrawal from Syria, particularly, as it pertains to protecting the homeland. I think, when I was at the White House meeting yesterday that's been so publicized. And I think after the Speaker left and we got down, Democrats stayed in the room, we had a very civil -- a very sensitive conversation.
My number one position was that look, after we pulled out of Iraq, as you know, Martha, 10,000 troops and ISIS reared its ugly head and the Caliphate was formed. I didn't want to see the same thing happen in Syria.
I got assurances from the chairman of the joint chief of staff, to the secretary of defense, to the president of the United States that we are not completely withdrawing from Syria. That we will have a residual force to protect the homeland.
And I commend the vice president on the negotiations, a five-day ceasefire after which there will be a permanent ceasefire in place. Let's hope that works.
MACCALLUM: We hope. I mean, that it will -- yes.
MCCAUL: In the meantime -- in the meantime, I have a sanctions bill that I've introduced with Chairman Eliot Engel. And I know the Senate, our counterpart have introduced the bill as well. If it fails, our sanctions will go forward.
MACCALLUM: Well, let me ask you this because Vice President Pence referred to the PPG which we used to call the SDF when we were working with them. And you know, some people have noted that, that is more sort of the Turkish language for this group.
And then, you know, the president said that he has a friend in President Erdogan, and that he's a tough guy, and he's glad that he -- you know, sort of saw the light on this -- on this agreement.
Are you concerned about the way that we are talking about Erdogan right now? Do you trust him? Is he our ally? Would you agree with that?
MCCAUL: Well, they are NATO ally, but I don't like his style leadership. I think he is trying to return Turkey to the Ottoman Empire. And the fact that he bought Russia military equipment, the S-400, which tracks our F-35. I think this speaks volumes about what kind of alliance we have.
MACCALLUM: Yes.
MCCAUL: But we do have Incirlik Air Base there. So, it's a tricky alliance right now. And I think -- I think we have to work with them to resolve the issue in Syria. I -- Secretary Pompeo's traveling to Europe with the coalition partners to try to reach some sort of stabilization agreement in Syria, a very difficult complex foreign policy issue.
MACCALLUM: There's a lot of skepticism, in our reporting at the Pentagon about whether or not the Kurds are going to go along with the deal. They've been forced out of their homes. So, we'll see what happens as it moves forward.
MCCAUL: Right.
MACCALLUM: Congressman McCaul, thank you very much. Good to see you tonight.
MCCAUL: Thanks, Martha.
MACCALLUM: You bet. So, President Trump back in Texas tonight, where he will hold another rally. A short time from now and we will take you there. And he will make his case for a second term.
But my next guest believes that the media has joined the resistance against the president and she will outline her argument on that. Coming up next, Kim Strassel, live here in New York.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACCALLUM: All right, a kind of beautiful shot at the side of Marine One as the President prepares to leave the chopper as he gets ready to go to Dallas, Texas tonight and do a big rally, the third one this week. Is that right? I think it's the third rally that he has done this week as he continues to try to rev up the base.
Obviously, very interested in keeping Texas in his corner as he heads into 2020. Some of the staffers are getting off. So we'll keep one eye on that. We'll bring you there as soon as that gets underway this evening the big event in Dallas.
So after a White House meeting yesterday, went off the rails, I think that's a fair assessment on all sides, right? President Trump tweeted this photo of what he called nervous Nancy's unhinged meltdown.
But the tweet ended up inspiring the #PelosiOwnsTrump, and then that started trending on Twitter. And Congress' top Democrat cashed in on the moment. She made it her new Twitter photo on her Twitter page. This is the world we live in now, right? And saying this about it today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI, D-CALIF.: I think I was excusing myself from the room. At that moment I was probably saying all roads lead to Putin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: All roads lead to Putin, she saying at that moment. Here now, Kim Strassel, Wall Street Journal Editorial Board Member, Fox News Contributor, and author of the new book Resistance At All costs: How Trump Haters are Breaking America. Great to see you, Kim.
KIMBERLY STRASSEL, CONTRIBUTOR: Great to be here.
MACCALLUM: Great to have you.
STRASSEL: Thanks.
MACCALLUM: And congratulations on your new book. As I said to you, whenever you put out in your editorials, it's always one of the first things that we go to.
STRASSEL: Thank you.
MACCALLUM: So it's great to have you here. What do you make of all that?
STRASSEL: Well, I think it was also notable because the press jumped on it as well too. And the thing that struck me -- and of course they were very critical of Donald Trump having sent it out and very supportive of Nancy Pelosi having stared him down. But what I remembered, the first thing that came to my mind was back in 2012, Jan Brewer, the Arizona Governor standing and doing the same thing to Barack Obama and she was completely excoriated for it. No one was saying, oh she owned him. They called her a racist and they said she was rude.
MACCALLUM: That's a great point.
STRASSEL: I remember a New York Times story talking about how she waggled her finger at the President of the United States. How dare she?
MACCALLUM: Yes, because, of course, she had invited him down there because she said Mr. President please come down and see the border I want to talk to you about the border and she wagged her finger and got nothing but grief for it.
STRASSEL: No. And the point I'm trying to make here is we have a double standard out there in the press. And unfortunately, you know, it always seems to lean a certain direction.
MACCALLUM: Yes. It certainly does. Here's a headline from Vox News. Trump is nervous. Nancy tweet shows his problem with powerful women which goes exactly to what you are saying. You know, my question is, you know, how does -- so we talked at the top of the show with Byron York about now the move -- the impeachment move is towards extortion.
You know, I said the words get ramped up. We haven't even gone through. There's not even an actual process yet, an official impeachment process open. But you know, everybody's sort of gotten so good at these buzzwords and messaging that that's where we are now.
STRASSEL: Well, and we keep moving the goalposts. And we saw this because you know, I spent a lot of time covering this Russia collusion false story in the end. And you started out with a couple of accusations and pretty soon we're looking into servers and foreign banks. I mean, and then there's just wild allegations that the chases -- the press is chasing down.
We're doing the same thing here. Remember, the original accusation was that Trump said I will withhold money unless you give me dirt on Joe Biden. Now, apparently there is something inappropriate or it is a quid pro quo for the President to say we're not going to give you money until you tell us whether or not you meddled in our 2016 election.
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but we just asked Bob Mueller to do the exact same thing for several years with regards to Russia. I mean, that's not a quid pro quo. That's a legitimate ask. We do care about foreign countries meddling in our elections. It is good to get that information.
But the press has suddenly changed the goalposts again. And now even asking about 2016 is supposedly an impeachable offense.
MACCALLUM: Yes. And that's what it really gets back to, you know, whether or not this is an impeachable issue. And that's the sort of, you know, sober approach that you'd like to see to this extremely gravitates suggestion.
So Kim, thank you very much. Resistance At All Costs: How Trump Haters are Breaking America is Kim Strassel's new book there. It's on the screen. Good to see you, Kim. Thank you very much.
STRASSEL: Thank you. Thank you, Martha.
MACCALLUM: Great to have you in New York. So she was notably absent on this week's debate stage. And tonight, 2020 Presidential Candidate Marianne Williamson is unleashing on her own party saying that after she watched that on Tuesday night, there's no way she's dropping out of this race now. She's here next exclusively.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARIANNE WILLIAMSON, D-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So many Americans realize there is an injustice that continues to form a toxicity underneath the surface, an emotional turbulence --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ms. Williamson, thank you very much.
WILLIAMSON: To say we're going to take them on, I don't think the Democratic Party should be surprised that so many Americans believe, yadda, yadda, yadda.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: That was back on July -- in July, I should say. 2020 Democratic candidate Marianne Williamson made a name for herself during the first two debates even becoming the most-searched-for candidate on Google. But she was absent from the stage on Tuesday night, and now says there's no way that she is dropping out of this process.
Instead, she's pointing the finger squarely at the DNC for stifling the Democratic process writing in The Washington Post. The Democratic National Committee has sought to narrow the field of presidential candidates at the very moment when it should be opening up, placing a political straightjacket on our primary system, controlling the process via money and ridiculous rules. The party is risking disaster.
Marianne Williamson is back on “The Story” tonight. good to have you back. Thank you for coming back in.
WILLIAMSON: Thank you so much for having me.
MACCALLUM: That's a pretty strong indictment of this process.
WILLIAMSON: You know, I was mentioning to you before, the Constitution doesn't even mention political parties. And George Washington warned us against them, and he said that we had to be very careful because they could form the factions, factions of men that he said that would be more concerned with their faction than with their country.
And so I feel very strongly about the power of the individual citizen. That's the decider in all this. That should be the decider obviously in our elections, but I think that's also who should be the decider in our primaries. So both political parties, I think that their process is to facilitate democracy not dictated in any way.
MACCALLUM: So when you look at on that stage, you don't see someone who you can get behind.
WILLIAMSON: I will get behind whoever the Democrat is. Of course, I will. I'm running as a Democrat. I am a Democrat. And listen, I hope that I can get back on that stage. But I see how with the rules and with the polling and with the numbers -- you know, there are two different political universes. One is the pundits, and the polls, and the money, and all of that. And then there's another political universe and that's what happens when candidates are out there in the primary states just talking to people about our country and about what matters.
And there are two such different Universes. So one is very difficult. You have to have a lot of money. There's a lot of establishment power involved there, media, political parties.
MACCALLUM: You got to know how to work it.
WILLIAMSON: Yes, that's right. And you have to have -- exactly. And then, the other universe which is available to everyone as it should be.
MACCALLUM: So you know, it reminded me when I read your piece of what I saw covering the Democratic convention on the floor of the night that Hillary Clinton accepted her nomination and the Bernie Sanders supporters were outraged, and there were thousands of them.
And they -- we have a picture of it. They turned their back when Hillary Clinton came on the stage and they were wearing shirts that said enough is enough, that had said Sanders on the back. They were -- they were angry about the same thing that you're angry about because they felt like the process had been rigged towards her and that he got shut out unfairly.
WILLIAMSON: You know, it's difficult for me because I was raised -- I remember my mother used to say, you have a problem with anybody in the family, you keep it in the family. Don't talk about it outside the family.
I'm here on Fox and you know, I see some things that deserve me, I wrote about it. But I'm not going to say here on Fox, and you know, bad mouth, they're my political family. So, yes, I think whether it's the Democrats or the Republicans --
MACCALLUM: But it's just, you know, it's not really -- it's not -- I'm not, it's just an --
WILLIAMSON: Yes.
MACCALLUM: -- observation of what happened.
WILLIAMSON: Yes. And whether it's the Democrat or the Republican, I think that anybody is going to feel that we want the voters to be the deciders and not the political --
(CROSSTALK)
MACCALLUM: So, what, you know, just give me, before it ends, like a practical avenue.
WILLIAMSON: Yes.
MACCALLUM: You know, is it a third party?
WILLIAMSON: Well, I wouldn't know --
MACCALLUM: Is that running as an independent?
WILLIAMSON: No, I would not do that, I would not do that because it's very important to me that the Democrat win in 2020 and I wouldn't do anything to risk taking even 10 votes away from that. I hope people will go to my web site, marianne2020, you know.
It's about having the money in order to have more field organizers and more digital ads, and all of the things that you just have to do in order to have the standing in order to get back on the stage. And I hope that it well.
In the meantime, we all have to honorably whether it's with our own party or with another party, speak up as Americans when we see something happening that we don't feel is democracy --
(CROSSTALK)
MACCALLUM: Is fair. Well, Tulsi Gabbard agreed with you as well.
WILLIAMSON: Yes.
MACCALLUM: Thank you very much.
WILLIAMSON: Thank you very much.
MACCALLUM: Great to have you back.
WILLIAMSON: Thank you for giving me the chance.
MACCALLUM: Marianne Williamson on “The Story” tonight.
And coming up next, “The Story” investigates the roots of the worst man-made epidemic in United States history with one of the addiction specialist who has been sounding the alarm on opioids for years, Dr. Drew Pinsky joins me next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DREW PINSKY, ADDICTION MEDICINE SPECIALIST: This is by far the worst addiction epidemic we have in this country. I called it a tsunami, I kept saying there is a tsunami coming, it's a tsunami coming, you don't understand. And it came. It came. The epidemic is hitting every corner of the country.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT: It starts and you get hooked so fast.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACCALLUM: The statistics are starling. On average, 130 Americans die every day from opioid overdose. And tonight, the root of that issue is the subject of a Fox Nation investigation. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The opioid crisis is the public health and safety crisis of our lifetimes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In Huntington, West Virginia, the guard has been called in to help tackle the opioid crisis.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pennsylvania has seen around 10,000 overdose deaths in the last two years. Prompting Governor Tom Wolf to declare a statewide disaster emergency. Americans are more likely to die from an opioid overdose than in a car accident.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're talking about a situation where doctors are primarily responsible because they wrote the prescriptions, but drug manufacturers apply them and pharmacists went along with it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Purdue saw fit to exchange and destroy lives for financial gain.
SHEPARD SMITH, FORMER ANCHOR, FOX NEWS: In Ohio, the quarter of one county says at least 10 people died of drug overdoses there in the past 26 hours.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Drug overdose death rose by more than 20 percent from 2015 to 2016 and it's expected to climb even higher.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Dr. Drew Pinsky, addiction medicine specialist featured in Fox Nation's America's opioid conspiracy joins me now. Doctor, good to have you with us. There's a $50 billion settlement that's being worked on by three, I believe of the drug giants that we may be getting word of any minute here.
But talk to me about why you say that the medical institutions and the business that you have spent your life trying to help people in is at the core of this problem.
PINSKY: We absolutely were at the core. We developed in a discipline where pain became the fifth vital sign, literally. Think about this. Institutionally, state medical societies, joint medical accreditation required us to pay the same attention to pain assessment as your pulse.
Think how ridiculous that is and if we didn't adequately treat pain, we would go to possibly prison or be fined. Not malpractice, well-meaning patients, African groups got together with attorneys and doctors were going to jail.
This sent shockwaves through the system at the same time they were disciplined that took the patient physician that pain is whatever the patient says it is and pain controls whatever the patient says it is that there should never be pain again and that there's always been a solution which was the opioid-related drugs and we just weren't giving enough.
And I, at the time, for 15 years were saying hold on, this is crazy, my patients will die because of this and they did.
MACCALLUM: It's really, you know, if you think about if you visit someone in the hospital, right, they have the smiley faces, like tell me if you feel good or you're in a little bit of pain --
PINSKY: Yes. Yes.
MACCALLUM: -- a little bit more.
PINSKY: Yes.
MACCALLUM: And I don't remember that --
PINSKY: Yes.
MACCALLUM: -- from when I was growing up. So there's this whole idea.
PINSKY: It wasn't there.
MACCALLUM: It wasn't there. Exactly.
PINSKY: It wasn't -- it was a new thing. It was a new thing that said that assessment, that little smiley face thing was as important --
(CROSSTALK)
MACCALLUM: Give him a pill.
PINSKY: -- the doctor coming over the nurse feeling your pulse.
MACCALLUM: Yes.
PINSKY: That's crazy. That was crazy. And we not only did we all adopted and buy into it, we were required by legal pressure, by state medical societies and joint commission to focus that way to the point where 90 percent of the opiates on earth were being prescribed by my profession here in the United States.
MACCALLUM: Yes.
PINSKY: We did it. We did it. We did it in the 19th century as well. There was a previous opioid epidemic in the 19th century, almost identical to this and the same thing happened.
MACCALLUM: You know, I mean, I think of getting my wisdom teeth out, right, and they send you home, says it's going to hurt for three days, you know, it's going to hurt because you just had surgery in your mouth.
Now, it's like, if your child feels pain, give them this. And then if it still hurts, give them more of this.
PINSKY: Right.
MACCALLUM: And it is just the whole culture of thinking that people shouldn't --
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: And it will. It was.
MACCALLUM: -- you know, and you don't want people -- I mean, obviously, for cancer patients, you know, it's a different category but I'm talking about --
PINSKY: Well --
MACCALLUM: -- some of the entry-level pain that led to some of this. Is that incorrect?
PINSKY: Right. No. So you would've gone home -- this is like, even maybe as long as a year and have a go, you would have gone home with 30 or 60 Vicodin, Lortab, or Oxycontin in your hand. We were being urged to do this to give the patient as much as possible.
Again, my patients were dying, the addicts were dying, but now, we've gone the other way where people with cancer pain can't get their opiates. So we've got to hit this right, and we've got to let well, well-trained physician that understand addiction and understand chronic pain to be driving the ship not the attorneys, not the patient's advocacy groups, not the state medical societies but really the well-trained professionals who are there taking care of the patients.
MACCALLUM: And in your show, Celebrity Rehab, you know, how did you see this play out?
PINSKY: Several of our patients -- now I think people understand, several died because I got them off opiates, they were doing well. Mike Star (Ph) from Allison Chase (Ph), a perfect example of this. He was a lifelong drug addict. We worked with him for a year after what you saw on Celebrity Rehab. He moved to Utah, we discouraged him from that. He went anyway. We stayed in close touch with him.
And he called me one day and he said, doctor, I'm having back pain. I said, Mike, please don't tell a doctor, whatever you do don't tell a doctor. Two weeks later he was dead with a bottle of Oxycontin and Benzodiazepine by his bedside.
My patients were routinely killed and it was so painful and so difficult to live through that time. Now we've cut off everybody from their opiates and they are going to the street, rather than calling them in and say, hey, we made a mistake, we've got a second problem here now called addiction. We didn't mean for that to happen. Let's go treat it. Instead, we say you're a bad patient. And of course, those patients are now going to the street. And now the big problem is Fentanyl and heroin.
MACCALLUM: Indeed, it is. Dr. Drew, thank you very much. The documentary on the opioid crisis is on Fox Nation, America's opioid conspiracy. Thank you very much, doctor.
PINSKY: You bet.
MACCALLUM: Good to see you tonight.
PINSKY: Thanks. You're welcome.
MACCALLUM: Coming up next, a story exclusive that you don't want to miss. More than 74 years a marine captured in this iconic image from World War I was misidentified. And tonight, Kay Maurer has been informed that her father is one of the heroes planting that flag on the top of Mount Suribachi and she joins me in just a moment. Stick around.
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MACCALLUM: So, this is quite a story. For the second time in three years, one of the U.S. servicemen in the iconic flag raising photo from February 23, 1945 had been misidentified and it has now been correctly identified.
The Marine Corps has acknowledged that the man previously identified as Private First-Class Rene Gagnon is actually Corporal Harold "Pie," it was his nickname, Keller, and for 74 years no one knew that.
He's the man that you see highlighted in the yellow. So, in moments, we're going to speak exclusively with Keller's daughter who says that her father never spoke of being in that photo and we'll talk to her about why that might have been.
But first, the chief breaking new correspondent Trace Gallagher with this incredible back story tonight. Hi, Trace.
TRACE GALLAGHER, ANCHOR & CORRESPONDENT: The story is fascinating, Martha. It really is. I mean, there were actually two American flags raised on Mount Suribachi in Iwo Jima back in February 2rd, 1945.
But commanders thought the first flag was too small, so they replaced it with the second flag and the second flag raising is when Associated Press photographer Joe Rosenthal snapped this famous photo.
It's also where some of the confusion comes in because Private First-Class Rene Gagnon, who we thought for 74 years was in the famous photo, actually helped raised the first flag. And we know it was Corporal Harold Keller, not Gagnon who helped raised the second flag.
And it's fascinating how they solve this. First, a group of historian Jews film footage atop Mount Suribachi then they compared the film to still photos. Taken by other soldiers from different vantage points. The evidence was then sent to special investigative board convened by the marines and with the help of the FBI's digital evidence lab, the finding was confirmed.
In fact, to make the positive I.D. investigators used things like Keller's camouflage pattern on his helmet and his wedding ring. Rene Gagnon was not married. And there was never a doubt that Harold Keller was on Mount Suribachi when the famous photo was taken because he had the proof hanging in his living room.
For many years Keller had a picture of the co-called gung-ho shot of 18 marines on the summit with the flag in the background that you see there. A picture that was also taken by Joe Rosenthal and also included Harold Keller.
His children said their dad never made a big deal of the picture and would say it was the photo of the guys who raised the flag on Iwo Jima. Harold Keller whose nick name was Pie because he once ate too much pie before a football game was part of some of the biggest battles in the Pacific Theodore and receive the Purple Heart.
In 1979, Keller died of a heart attack at the age of 57. There was no mention of Iwo Jima in his obituary. Rene Gagnon it was on his gravestone.
MACCALLUM: Incredible story. Trace, thank you very much.
GALLAGHER: Sure.
MACCALLUM: So, we are honored now to be joined by Corporal Harold Keller's daughter, Kay Maurer. Kaye, thank you so much for being here today. So, tell me a little bit how you learned that it was your dad in what I would call the most iconic photograph of World War II.
KAY MAURER, CORPORAL HAROLD KELLER'S DAUGHTER: Thank you. Well, I started receiving phone calls from a couple of the researchers, Brent Westemeyer and Dustin Spence. They started out with, we know your dad was on Iwo Jima, do you know what he there? And I'm going no, not really, he was with the group that went up the mountain but I didn't really know anything much beyond that.
And they said, well, we'd like to come to your house and kind of fill you in on what your dad did. So. Then, which they did and got to meet both of the men and got to Skype with the man from Ireland, Stephen Foley, and so it was quite an afternoon.
MACCALLUM: I mean, it is, it's amazing, and I think a lot of people remember the book and the film "Flags of our Fathers," and I think it's important to point out that Rene Gagnon was on Mount Suribachi. And as Trace pointed out, was part of the first flag raising. It gets a little confusing because the second battalion 28 marines were had secured the mountain and they went up and there was one flag raising then a second one.
But what I find so interesting and I'd like to hear about your dad, why do you think -- I mean, he obviously knew that he had helped to push that flag into the ground. So why did he never --
MAURER: Sure.
MACCALLUM: -- say anything.
MAURER: Sure.
MACCALLUM: Why didn't he tell you or anyone else?
MAURER: What I -- I'm just guessing here, but what I think is once those other men were identified, incorrectly or correctly, for him to then come back to his hometown of Brooklyn and say no, that was me. I think people, he just would've been the laughingstock.
MACCALLUM: Yes.
MAURER: He didn't speak up at the time, I think at the time because those men were identified so that they could go back and do a war bond tour. He would not have wanted to do that. He was the first man from Brooklyn to sign up after Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, he was the first man from our hometown.
And I think his heart was there, fighting the war, not to come back on a war bond tour. And so, I think he just mummed up and refused to identify himself when it was asked --
MACCALLUM: Yes.
MAURER: -- who were the men. And I think he thought I'm going to stay here and fight in which -- and dad would've, I think not wanted to leave his comrades to go back to the states.
MACCALLUM: I mean, that is a remarkable story. I have been working on a book on Iwo Jima so I've interviewed a lot of the men who fought there. Many of them are in their '90s now, obviously.
And that kind of humility that you discussed when you talk about your father and not it meant to him to sort of not be the one in the spotlight or not be the one that was seen as the big hero is a very common thread that I see running through these men. And so, it doesn't surprise me at all that your father, Harold "Pie" Keller was a guy like that.
So, what has it been like for all of you? Now when you look at that picture, Kay, what goes through your mind?
MAURER: I'm amazed, I'm proud, so very proud of. And then it was just this little ache that he didn't tell me.
MACCALLUM: Yes.
MAURER: That he wouldn't talk about it. I would've loved to have heard his stories. And he just wouldn't. So proud.
MACCALLUM: Yes.
MAURER: Very proud.
MACCALLUM: As you should be. Kay, thank you for your family service --
MAURER: Thank you.
MACCALLUM: -- and your dad's service and for speaking with us tonight.
MAURER: Thank you.
MACCALLUM: It's an amazing story and we are so glad that you joined us. Thank you, Kay.
MAURER: Thank you so much. Thank you.
MACCALLUM: So, we are now minutes away -- I'm just so moved by that story. I can't help it. It's just an incredible story. So, we are now just moments away from the latest rally tonight. It is in Dallas and the anticipation is very high there. Some of the supporters camped out in tents we are told from our reporters who are down there on the scene. “The Story” live from Dallas, coming up next. Don't miss it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACCALLUM: A live look now outside the American Airlines center in Dallas, Texas where in any minute now the president is going to take the stage for what's expected to be a raucous rally. Keep make America great, keep make America great, I guess is the new motto.
President Trump won the state by nine points over Hillary Clinton in 2016. But it was the first time since '96 that a GOP presidential candidate didn't win by double digits there. So, he's spending a lot of time in Texas ahead of 2020.
Correspondent Casey Stegall, live there tonight. Hi, Casey.
CASEY STEGALL, CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Martha. Sorry, I'm competing with Michael Jackson right now. But the President of the United States just arrived here at the American Airlines that are not very long ago. So, we're really about minutes away from him taking the stage.
This is a really unique venue here. He's been here before by the way, but this where the Dallas Mavericks played basketball. It's where the Dallas stars play hockey. And there is very much this feeling of sort of a sporting event, if you will, some people were doing the wave not long ago. People are getting nachos and pizza and they're getting ready to settle in and listen to the president to talk.
There are a lot of people here. This venue can hold 20,000 people. So, the top row are still waiting to be filled in. However, our crews on the outside tell us that there are several thousand, just several thousand people outside of this arena and they may not get in to actually hear the president talk.
So, there is something big going on here tonight. Because at 7 o'clock this morning, Martha, 12 hours before the president was even scheduled to take the stage people were camped out here about a thousand at 7 o'clock this morning.
So, no doubt a lot of Texans are fired up to see President Trump and he is expected to take the stage any time now.
Back to you, Martha.
MACCALLUM: All right, Casey, thank you. We'll see what the president has to say about the Turkey situation when he gets on the stage this evening as well and all of that.
So finally, tonight, Democratic Congressman and civil rights leader Elijah Cummings of Maryland passed away at the age of 68 following a long-standing health challenge. Tonight's quote of the night from his very first speech House floor, April 26, 1996, 23 years ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ELIJAH CUMMINGS, D-MD: Our world would be a much better world and a much better place if we would only concentrate on the things we have in common, instead of concentrating on our differences. It's easy to find differences. Very easy. We need to take more time to find a common ground.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Elijah Cummings, rest in peace. That's “The Story” of Thursday, October 17th. We'll see you tomorrow night.
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