Lawyers for Trump and Cohen dispute content of secret tape

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," July 25, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: Hello, everybody. I'm Jesse Watters along with Jedediah Bila, Juan Williams, Dana Perino, and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City, and this is "The Five."

Fox News alert, a major clash on Capitol Hill, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo squaring off with senators about President Trump's meeting with Vladimir Putin and much, much more. The latest on the heated hearing which is still underway in just a moment, but first to another major story we're following. Who's lying and who's not and where's the rest of the tape? Those questions now front and center in a new controversy surrounding a leaked audio recording of President Trump and his former lawyer, Michael Cohen, it happened in 2016, with the pair discussing a potential payment to a former Playboy model. Listen for yourself.


MICHAEL COHEN: I need to open up a company for the transfer of all of that info regarding our friend David. When it comes time for financing which will be.

DONALD TRUMP: Listen, what financing?

COHEN: We'll have to pay.


COHEN: No, no, no. I've got none of those.


WATTERS: A payment was never made. The lawyers from both sides are battling it out about what was actually said.


RUDY GIULIANI, LAWYER FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP: The transcript makes it quite clear at the end that President Trump says, quote, don't pay with cash.

LANNY DAVIS, LAWYER FOR MICHAEL COHEN: Giuliani can't make up the words, don't pay. Listen to the tape. The words, don't pay, are not heard.

GIULIANI: There's no way the president is going to be talking about setting up a corporation and then using cash, unless you're a complete idiot, and the president is not an idiot.

DAVIS: This is about truth versus lying. And, ultimately, Donald Trump is going to be done in by the truth.

GIULIANI: there's no indication of any crime being committed on this tape, and that is absolutely right.

DAVIS: People who use cash, Rudy Giuliani knows when these U.S. attorneys are either drug dealers or a mobsters.

GIULIANI: There are no other tapes with the president. We have all the tapes in our possession.

DAVIS: There're certainly more tapes.


WATTERS: The president blasting his former lawyer, tweeting that it's sad that Cohen recorded him, while also asking why the recording abruptly cuts off. All right. So this was a huge story last night when it broke, Greg. And, you know, tapes, Trump, Cohen all over twitter. And then when I listen to it, I kinda was left with the feeling of like, is that it?

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: It's always -- it's that way with every story like this. There's just -- a huge explosion and then everybody is deflated. They say it's a smoking gun. It's like a soggy cigarette butt. There's a -- there's something is about this that I got. First, as an editor, OK, she took money for this. What right did she have to say where and if the story runs? You got paid. It doesn't matter. I've paid for stories and I've killed stories. That's not against the law, so that's baloney. Also, Cohen's lawyer is Lanny Davis. He worked for Hillary. He's a housecoat henchman. I mean, this is revenge. So that in itself is collusion.

Also, it's a sad day in America when you can no longer trust hush money. I mean, the fact is, it is called hush money. You've got a slimy lawyer. You've got women that are -- that had sex and were paid for it, and consensually. I just find it so ridiculous that people are screaming about the fact that a billionaire real estate developer in Manhattan who has been thrice married, known as a womanizer, might have paid a woman to not talk about an affair. I mean, you'd find more meat at a vegan hot dog eating contest.


WATTERS: Greg misses the good old days when hush money really counted.

GUTFELD: Exactly, back in the days of L.A. Confidential. Come on. You can't trust hush money.

WATTERS: We were saying in the break about this is the '90s again. You have Lanny Davis, (INAUDIBLE) defending the Clintons, and now out there with Rudy Giuliani who's also -- you know, these two, you know, legal titans that are just playing this out, a big game of chicken on cable television.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: I do -- it was curious to me why Cohen decided to go with Lanny Davis, or why Lanny -- it's more clear to me now why Lanny Davis decided to take the case. It is also something to be said that Lanny Davis is actually willing to go on TV and defend his client. And so, Rudy Giuliani has been out there basically kind of by himself except for Avenatti was out there, but on a different case, whatever. I'm not sure about the strategy of releasing tapes because what's the long-term goal? What is the new cycle that you want to achieve? I don't think that if the southern district of New York is looking into Michael Cohen's activities that this is not going to get the southern district of New York off their back. So what is the goal? Is the goal to try to embarrass the president, to get a news cycle? To say that there are other tapes means that they better be better tapes than that one, right?


PERINO: Because if you put out another tape, it's like, wait, that there's -- it's worse than a soggy cigarette?

GUTFELD: Yes. They have sparklers.

PERINO: Yes, that they have sparkler that you can't use again. There will be that. But here's the other thing, though, that -- this is the second time that the administration has put out information that turns out to be false later on. And so, reporters, for example, that went out and said -- I think it was February or November of last year, we hear there's this payment that was made to this Karen McDo -- no, never heard of it. No, no, no, no. And then it turns out, actually, it's true.

WATTERS: Does that go back to the everybody lies about sex mantra in the '90s? Now the shoes on the other foot.

PERINO: I don't know. I haven't done either -- I don't know anything.


PERINO: This is like a little bit uncomfortable for me. I don't know anything about any of this.

GUTFELD: The golden rule is you deny, deny, deny, until it happens. You know, OK, you got me.

WATTERS: Juan, what do you about this? What do you think about the strategy that Dana brought up? Why bring this up now? Why leak the tape? Is it to show you have a little independence and make the president a little nervous, but also brush off the New York prosecutors?

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Well, according to Lanny, Rudy Giuliani was, you know, demeaning his client and badmouthing him. And so, they wanted to push back. And, in fact, it was interesting to me that Davis said Michael Cohen is no longer seeking any pardon. So the question then becomes, oh, so maybe Michael Cohen is now cooperating with prosecutors looking into President Trump. But what strikes me about this is you guys are so dismissive, the wet cigarette butt. I mean, on so many levels. I mean -- well, first, I guess it plays into what Trump was saying yesterday to the vets about don't believe anything you here. Don't believe anything you read. Just listen to me. I mean, talk about an autocrat. Oh, yeah, yeah, this is the way it is now. The press, everybody else.


WILLIAMS: . let's throw the critics out. Let's take away their clearance for no reason. OK. But here we have a situation where, as Dana said, there were denials. He said, oh, I don't know anything about it, just like in the other -- the Stormy Daniels case. So, Jesse, I mean, you've got to think, how long do Trump supporters just say, I don't -- I'm a Trump supporter.

GUTFELD: It didn't bother them before, Juan. It's not going to bother them now.

WILLIAMS: How many times do you have to be proven to be a liar?

GUTFELD: It's the same lie.

PERINO: Same lie.

GUTFELD: It's the same lie.

WILLIAMS: Lied about stormy, right?


WILLIAMS: He lied about.

GUTFELD: Having sex, having sex, having sex.

WATTERS: At least he didn't lied about a terror attack, right, Jedediah? Who is that again?

JEDEDIAH BILA, GUEST CO-HOST: Exactly. It's interesting because the media suddenly cares about two things. They care about infidelity and they care about deceit. When it was Bill Clinton, you couldn't talk about the infidelity. It was unrelated. It was unimportant. Now all of a sudden.


BILA: Please, you've had people from the national organization for women standing behind him.

WILLIAMS: Oh, my God.

BILA: . it was absurd. And you couldn't talk about the C when Hillary Clinton was lying outright saying, oh, I don't know what the C stands when she had signed documents that said, in fact, she did know that the C stood for confidential. So, I think the media is suddenly being alert is really refreshing. I think Lanny Davis was a good choice though because he's very media savvy. Talking before, I've done a lot of TV with him. I think this is an issue that he knew there may not be something illegal going on here, that may not be something like that, but we want to sway the public opinion on Donald Trump. We want to try to get those people who care about honesty and integrity and who voted for him, yes.

WATTERS: And also humiliate him a little bit.

BILA: And humiliate him a little bit.

WATTERS: . and make him nervous.

BILA: And he someone who's going to be able to get on television.


BILA: He's so good at that.

PERINO: I'm sorry to jump in, Jesse. I'm just curious -- like, when was the last time you had two dynamic lawyers battling it out in the press?

GUTFELD: Theory of evolution.

PERINO: It's been a really long time. Mostly you just see these on dramas, on television, or in the movies. This is actually playing itself out.

WATTERS: Yeah, Avenatti is probably really jealous right now.


WATTERS: Over here, over here.


WILLIAMS: This is like Trump's mentor, Roy Cohn. You know, that's how Cohn used to do business. He gets in and he fight in the press. Again, the key to me is that you get even Judge Napolitano, unlike my colleagues here, saying, hmm, I think that there's some fraud here.

WATTERS: Where's the fraud?

WILLIAMS: Well, the fraud would be he's trying to set up, as the Wall Street Journal reported this afternoon, a shell company.


WILLIAMS: . to manage the payment because the payment was made from American media, National Enquirer.

WATTERS: Because he wanted the shell company to have full ownership of the secrets.


WATTERS: . in case anything happens to the National Enquirer.


WATTERS: Exactly. So how it is a fraud?

WILLIAMS: Well, because David -- first.

GUTFELD: They weren't selling shells at all.


WILLIAMS: Thank you, thank you, Gregory. But, secondly, I think the key point here is that you have the National Enquirer buying a story.


WILLIAMS: . and the immediate run up to the election. So, clearly, this is about avoiding this embarrassing story breaking right before the election.


GUTFELD: Not illegal.

WATTERS: . campaign finance violation punishable by a $15,000 fine?

GUTFELD: Two point of this, I love the fact that Cohen who was, just months ago, an untrustworthy slime ball is now the history -- the hero of the resistance. Now they're in bed with him. That's unsavory. But to your point, I think it's important. What is the media's end game? I actually -- I think that CNN -- I don't blame them for doing this story because it's interesting.


GUTFELD: But where do you want this to go, impeachment?

PERINO: I don't care what the media -- I don't think the media actually has an agenda on how they want it to go. They just want the story to keep going. I want to know what is Lanny Davis' end game? What's his strategy here?

GUTFELD: But the thing is, let's say this -- I mean, I think that there're people in the media who want Trump out. The problem is they haven't thought about what's the next daylight with 66 million people who think you just got rid of an incredible president.


PERINO: There's a poll today that says that -- I think it was like 65 percent of Democrats do not want to push for impeachment. It's almost like they've finally started to get the memo that -- to your point, if it looks like you take away the presidency from somebody for a campaign finance violation for $15,000, I'm not saying that's going to happen, but if that's the perception, then you won't recover.


BILA: They're also thinking about reelection, though. Kind to say they're also thinking about reelection and they're saying if we don't have something substantive here to impeach him on, you have to think about his potential for reelection. They're hoping that character issues come into play when in fact it's so ridiculous. As you've said before, no one voted for Donald Trump saying this is a wholesome guy.

GUTFELD: He's a great husband.

BILA: This is a guy with outstanding character. No, they saw a good businessman. They wanted their taxes lower. They hated Obamacare. They wanted more jobs. And guess what? All those things that were important to them, he's delivering.


PERINO: But delivering on them means the economy is roaring.

BILA: Right.

PERINO: What happens in a midterm when the economy is roaring? The election turns into a value selection. So that's what the Democrats are.

WILLIAMS: Well, I just think the evangelicals, I mean, I just wonder at what point to the evangelical say, you know, this is total corruption in terms of our morals that we can't stand.

PERINO: The evangelicals are not going to save you.

WILLIAMS: I mean, the funny thing about what Giuliani said last night on Laura Ingraham was, oh, man, I've got lots of experience. I listen to 4,000 hours of mob tapes. Wait a second, I thought you were on Trump's side, now you're making.

WATTERS: No, he was responding to what Lanny said, because he said only people like that talk in cash are mobsters.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, and guess what? That's what it sounded was going on.

WATTERS: I thought he said no cash.

GUTFELD: I don't actually mind if there's a little mob in Trump, because he just got the E.U. to agree to some, like, major -- some major trade deals.

WILLIAMS: You should go back to the '70s, and Nixon, and E. Howard Hunt. I think you'll enjoy that.

GUTFELD: I was a young kid, Juan. I have baseball cards.

WILLIAMS: No, you can go back.


WILLIAMS: Time travel.

WATTERS: On Capitol Hill, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo facing off with senators right now about the Putin summit and much, much more. That showdown, we're going to bring it to you next.


PERINO: You're looking live at Capitol Hill, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo is still testifying before senators about what took place at the Trump-Putin summit and the president's plans for North Korea and Iran. Here are some of the more contentious moments from this afternoon.


SEN. ROBERT MENENDEZ, D-N.J.: Has the president told you what he and President Putin discussed in their two hour closed-door meeting.

MIKE POMPEO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: The president has the prerogative to choose who's in meeting or not. I'm confident you've had private one-on- one meetings in your life as well.

MENENDEZ: Did he tell you whether or not what happened in those two hours.

POMPEO: Yes. The product of your question implies some notion that there was something improper about having a one-on-one meeting.

SEN. BEN CARDIN, D-MD.: I heard you talk and brag about the number of sanctions.

POMPEO: Senator, these were just facts.

CARDIN: The fact is that the congress pays us the statute that required sanctions to be imposed.

POMPEO: It's my best recollection of the constitution as the president signed that law as well. So, I thank you for presenting that law.


PERINO: So, that's one of the things our founders thought of, Jedediah, is that in a system like ours, you should have the executive branch accountable to the legislative branch and that's why the secretary went up. And I think acquitted himself quite well today, your thoughts?

BILA: Yeah. I love the way he delivers things because he's so measured that I feel like just his delivery alone inspires confidence. And I think he did what he needed to do. He talked about how there would be no easing of the sanctions with Russia. He gave a good defensive NATO. He talked about how we're not recognizing Russia's annexation of Crimea. And I thought Marco Rubio actually did a great job when he -- he listed out all the policy reasons that the United States has been strong on Russia, kind of reminding people that what you see in the media about, you know, oh, the media doesn't like the way Trump responds to Putin in a press conference. Look beyond that and look at what the administration has actually done. And if you look at that, you see that they've been much stronger than the prior administration. And he laid out very specifics and I felt that it was a very empowering moment for people to see and kind of get their head on straight as to the fact that this administration, actually, has been quite strong. And based on what Pompeo said today, we'll continue to be strong. So, it was very confidence, inspiring from my perspective and I'm really glad that he's in there.

PERINO: And right before this hearing, Jesse, Ambassador John Bolton, I guess we call him Mr. Secretary? No. Oh, gosh, all these titles. He is now the national security advisor, came out with a statement saying the president has decided to delay the Putin invitation until after the Russian investigation is over, so probably now it will take place until early 2019.

WATTERS: So Republicans on Capitol Hill are breathing a deep sigh of relief. They don't have to deal with putty-poop before the midterms. I think Pompeo did a great job today. I though he was resolute. He was convincing. He was passionate. He was strong, probably the most effective person in the cabinet for delivering President Trump's message. He talked about how tough the administration has been on Russia, and how ready now NATO is to counteract any Russian aggression. And Rand Paul made a really good point. He said President Reagan, when he met with his Russian counterpart, he never went up there and shook his fist and threatened the Russian counterpart, and never blasted him to his face. Yes, he said tear down that wall. Yes, he was tough in other ways. But he never pointed and spit the way that Democrats wanted President Trump to do against Putin.

WILLIAMS: And, Jesse.


WILLIAMS: You know that the Russians interfered in the 2016 election?

WATTERS: They did a lot worse in the cold war, Juan.

PERINO: Juan, you've covered Reagan and those summits, you tell us.

WILLIAMS: I just think -- I mean, Jesse is rights. Tear down that wall. We're going to build a peacekeeper missile, remember that?


WILLIAMS: We're going to go after you. We're not taking this and we don't believe in communism. Harsh words from President Reagan.

GUTFELD: And your party was against the harsh words.

WILLIAMS: No, it was not. I don't know why you always.

GUTFELD: You guys were against the FBI.

WILLIAMS: You know, this is why Republican are blind to Trump. You make everything into like team sports. No, let's just be straight with each other. I mean, Reagan was tough on the Russians. Not only that.

WATTERS: He was tough but he had nice diplomacy.

GUTFELD: By the way, people on the right went after Reagan about that too.

WILLIAMS: I'm just saying -- anyway, the thing that strikes me -- I mean, Mike Pompeo and I are both fans of Kansas basketball. I think nice guy, but I've got to tell you, he looked like Sergeant Schultz there. I see nothing. I see nothing. He's saying right there, oh, you know what, sanctions, look at all the sanctions put in place. Wait a minute. Trump purposely slow walked imposition of those very sanctions put in place by congress to punish Russia for interfering.

PERINO: They did get done. In the meantime, Greg, one of the reasons that this press conference -- this hearing was interrupted is because the president called the pool, the White House pool back to the White House, to the rose garden, and he was having that meeting with Juncker from the E.U. and I thought, oh, my gosh, they have a deal, and he came out and he's like, yeah, pretty much on the deal. We have a way of getting to a deal.

GUTFELD: I'm glad you brought that up. Two points to make because -- one about -- that's a huge win for Trump, but it's boring. Like, you know what, nobody cares about these trade wars because it is just numbers. But it's a big win. You saw the stock market go up, that's a big deal. Number two, how many hearings does this make? This is why I keep saying that Trump is the most educational presidency ever, because when Trump burps, they have a hearing on what he ate. Mr. Secretary, did he have chipotle or did he have Wendy's chili when he -- this morning. That's what they're doing. Like every time Trump does something, there is a hearing. So, because of that, we are all forced to learn more and more about governing. This is the most transparent agency ever.

I have a theory, though. Maybe you'll tell me I'm crazy. I think there's already change shifts going on with Russia and Iran already in terms of Syria. I think that Russia is looking at Iran as their high school girlfriend, or let's say high school boyfriend. And America is the college quarterback. And they just dumped Iran for America. Do you think that's a good theory? You're going to see Iran, kind of, on its own with Syria, and you're going to see that they're going to be, kind of, like having a back away because Russia is no longer going to support them.

PERINO: Well, I think part of that would be because Netanyahu has gone to Russia, I think three or four times now.


PERINO: Talked to Putin because Iran has fighters on their border.


PERINO: . and Russia should do something about it. Will he? I don't know.

GUTFELD: I think this is -- I think we're going to end up seeing a positive result in Syria pertaining to Iran, and also with North Korea with Russia's help.

WILLIAMS: Let me just ask you something, most transparent? We still don't know what happened in the meeting with Putin. We don't know what happened.


WATTERS: That's because he wants some flexibility, Juan.

WILLIAMS: No, because the Russians are out there and they're saying, in fact, that President Trump agreed to some kind of reconstruction with Syria, some kind of deal with here, and we don't know.

GUTFELD: We'll find out, trust me.


PERINO: Pompeo said that he feels like he's got all the information that he needs. I mean.

BILA: During the Obama years when we were saying, what's going on -- what's going on behind the scenes? I remember a lot of folks on the left saying give him some space. He can't just close everything.


GUTFELD: Lying. Boasting about lying to America?

WILLIAMS: If you want to talk about, like, sex scandals, this is not -- imagine if Obama had been involved -- but on this, on foreign policy, nowhere near the obfuscation, the lies that we see from this guy who is cozy with Vladimir Putin.

BILA: You have to admit he's getting stuff done. No evidence of the collusion.

WILLIAMS: Where is the deal? Where is the deal, Jedediah? No need to shout, but I'm saying where is the deal on North Korea? Where is the deal with Russia? Where is the deal on Syria?

BILA: It's not going to happen overnight.

PERINO: I mean, I know that every day feels like seven, but it really is only 24 hours.

GUTFELD: I think every day feels like a Sunday.

PERINO: All right, a California city OK's an outrageous punishment for violators of its plastic straw ban. Greg is going to explain it all, next.


GUTFELD: Do you want to talk priorities? Well, California is plagued by rampant homelessness, drug use, and human waste that is spreading disease everywhere, here's what matters to their leaders: straws. Yeah, plastic drinking straws. Santa Barbara just passed a bill that punishes restaurant owners with jail time and fines if they give out these straws. And get this, each straw counts as a crime. Meaning, if you hand out straws at a children's birthday party, which I often do, you can do more time than your average felon.

Now, I can understand this law if you didn't have any other stuff to worry about. If you didn't have dramatic rise in disease, crime, homelessness, maybe you can go after the straws. But your state is teetering on the edge of Armageddon, you nitwits, which may be why politicians are focusing on evil straws. The concern over straws is really just a denial of far worst problems.

Straws, get this, they make up only 0.02 percent of the plastic that ends up in the ocean. You'd find more plastic in the faces of certain coastal politicians, who I won't mention. What also hurts this narrative? America is responsible for less than 1 percent of the waste in the sea. Most of these plastics trash comes from other countries, but if you can't blame America, then I guess it's no story.

But here's where you really see the consequences of such phony concerns: Who needs straw most -- straws most? The disabled, who can't drink without them. Good job, Santa Barbara. Like the straws you try to ban, you suck. But unlike the straws, not in a good way.

Jedediah, I've always said if they outlaw straws, only outlaws will have straws. I've said that.

BILA: You have said that.

GUTFELD: You've heard me say that.

BILA: I've heard you, and I am a defender of the straw.


BILA: I will have you know.

GUTFELD: Is it the straw argument?

BILA: I'm a straw activist. I've now turned into a straw activist. I will he handing out straws after the show of varying sizes.

WILLIAMS: Can I give you a straw poll?

BILA: Yes, you may. Remember the straws you had when you were a kid?

GUTFELD: Silly straws.

BILA: That's the best.

GUTFELD: You know what? Death penalty. You have -- you have a silly straw, you're electrocuted.

BILA: You know, I love stuff like this, because folks on the left JUST can't let private businesses decide. If a private business decides they don't like straws, they don't -- this is environmentally unsound for them, they can opt to not do it. Why do you have to get the government involved? Why do people on the left -- Juan, maybe you can help me with this.

Why do people on the left often feel to mandate, they need to tax, to penalize in order to change behavior? Why not just put the information out there, let people in the free market hopefully read the information, make better decisions from theirselves and their families and have a domino effect? Doesn't it rub you the wrong way that it's a top-down approach all the time? It drives me crazy.

WILLIAMS: Well, remember, it's a lot like motorcycle helmets to me. People say they want to ride and they enjoy the wind in their hair or their face. But when they crash, oh, my gosh. Then the taxpayer, you and I, Jedediah, end up paying for their hospital Bill. And, you know, it's not a good situation, because it drives up the cost of health care.

WATTERS: it's a strawman argument, Juan.

PERINO: That was good.

WILLIAMS: That was excellent.

But I would say, you know, to me, I run into this, because, like, you go into the grocery store or the drugstore and they want to charge you an extra nickel now for a bag.


WILLIAMS: Because they want to discourage your use of plastic bags. And the same thing with the straws. I think why? Why is it -- but then I think wait a minute. So then the trash collects, because all this plastic collects.

PERINO: We know how it works.

WILLIAMS: Yes. And then you've got -- and then, you know, not only does it hang in the trees, all these plastic bags.

GUTFELD: Which I find to be beautiful.

WILLIAMS: You like that.

GUTFELD: Yes. It's considered modern art in New York.

WILLIAMS: Is that right?


WILLIAMS: I didn't know. But it's in a lot of trees, the few trees that exist in Manhattan.

But I just think then government has responsibly to clean it up, pay for it. Or as Dana points out, and she wishes President Trump would go and get that trash out of the ocean. In our seas.

GUTFELD: But that's not America's -- he should do it.

PERINO: It's more of a second term issue, really.

GUTFELD: But also, the thing is, though, if you look at the statistics, this is a problem of other countries.


GUTFELD: But we could do something about it. What bothers me is that we hear about prison reform, like we need to release drug dealers, but we're going to put people who use straws in jail?

PERINO: Right. Yes, of course. California is curious. I would love to go -- I would love to go and be a moderator of a debate between the governor, the gubernatorial candidates there.

GUTFELD: Oh, wouldn't that be great?

PERINO: I don't know if they would go for that, but I think it would be fun.

I was just going to mention innovation. We are creating the most amazing things.

GUTFELD: You want a new straw?

PERINO: I want a new straw. So I just -- I usually don't use my phone on the show, but I looked it up. Have you heard of Beyond Meat?


PERINO: We had it one time.

GUTFELD: It's gross.

PERINO: No, it's not.

GUTFELD: It actually bleeds.

PERINO: It actually bleeds, because they've made it look like meat. And it's a nice alternative. Why can't we come up with an alternative?

GUTFELD: A straw that bleeds? What are you, some kind of monster?

You know, OK. Permanent -- a straw that's like a knife or form, that's permanent. Like you --

PERINO: They have metal ones you can take with you.


PERINO: Or how about ones that disintegrate after a while but not while you're drinking it?

GUTFELD: A disintegrating straw, Jesse.

WATTERS: That's why Dana is on TV and she's not an inventor.

PERINO: You have to have great ideas in order to get somewhere.

BILA: Edible straw.

WATTERS: Here's what I think. I think Santa Barbara is paradise and don't mess with paradise. It's perfect.

And politicians need to pass laws to feel useful. And we've had about 250 years in this country, almost, and politicians are running out of laws to pass. So now, they're trying to become your parent. And they're saying, "I'm going to regulate your bedroom. I'm going to regulate what you drink, what you say, how you behave. But they don't need to do this anymore. It's over. It's over. We're all fine now.

GUTFELD: Don't you think, though, that these are the same people that probably order a ton of stuff from Amazon and how much packing plastic?

PERINO: You know, I think -- I'm waiting for that backlash.


PERINO: Peter McMahon is very upset that we order, like, one little thing and it comes in a huge box with all the stuffing and then you have to get rid of it.

GUTFELD: Yes. No, that's immoral.

PERINO: There has to be a better way.

GUTFELD: That's immoral.

All right. If you support Brett Kavanaugh, you're evil. That's the last attack, latest attack coming from a key Democratic senator.


WILLIAMS: Some Democrats coming under fire for using extreme rhetoric when attacking President Trump. Cory Booker raising eyebrows with this message to his fellow senators who do not oppose Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh.


SEN. CORY COOKER, D-N.J.: I'm here to call on folk to understand that in the moral moment, there is no -- there is no neutral. In a moral moment, there is no bystanders. You are either complicit in the evil. You are either contributing to the wrong or you are fighting against it.


WILLIAMS: And Governor Andrew Cuomo of New York being criticized for his choice of words when he went after the president's illegal immigration policies.


GOV. ANDREW CUOMO, D-N.Y.: They are on a jihad to deport as many people as they can who they believe are not in the United States legally.


WILLIAMS: So we have a situation where right now, I think it's just two Democrats in the Senate have agreed to even meet with Kavanaugh to have discussions. Of course, no Republicans ever met with Merrick Garland.

How do you put that together, Jesse?

WATTERS: This is how I do it. When Bush said Iraq, Iran and North Korea were the axis of evil, Democrats got really upset by that.

PERINO: It's true.

WATTERS: And then Booker has no problem labeling Republicans evil? I just think it's -- President Trump doesn't even call Democrats evil.

WILLIAMS: He didn't call Republicans evil.

WATTERS: Complicit in evil? He's talking about the Republicans that are going to vote for a strict constructionist to fill the Supreme Court seat.

WILLIAMS: No, he's talking about Democrats. He's saying he doesn't want any Democrats to vote for --

GUTFELD: Because it's evil.


WILLIAMS: No, because he sees that Merrick Garland was blocked --

WATTERS: He's still calling the Republican judicial philosophy evil. And I think that goes way beyond. And he's only doing this because he's running for president.


WATTERS: He's trying to raise his profile, and he's trying to make a splashy sound bite. But I just don't think -- Obama and Bill Clinton didn't get elected to the White House by calling people evil. I mean, they got -- they got there a lot of other corrupt ways. They at least didn't do that.

WILLIAMS: I respect your view, but I just tell you, I don't think that's what he's saying. I think he's saying that the Republicans blocked a legitimate, twice-elected president from nominating someone to the Supreme Court for a year. Now you get -- not only do you get Neil Gorsuch, but you get a situation where they're going to get a second appointment. And you know.

So Dana --

PERINO: You've got to hate the game. Hate the game.

WILLIAMS: Yes, I hate the game, but I don't think he's saying that about the president.

PERINO: Well, I think hyperbole is what you use when you don't have a good argument. And in order to make headlines, you have to have -- the hyperbole has to increase with everybody that's going out there.

Cory Booker is not helping the Democrats keep the seats that they have in the Senate right now. He's certainly not trying to increase their majorities. Because the ten Senate Democrats that are running, many of them in states where Trump won by double digits, 60, 65 percent of the people there say, "We want Kavanaugh confirmed by the midterms." It makes it so much harder on them. It's like -- it's just thinking through the game and the strategy is difficult.

If his goal is to get some headlines out there so that he can be a front runner in 2020, that's one thing. But there are consequences and fallout for that.

WILLIAMS: Well, Jedediah, so the poll, Quinnipiac has a poll out says 41 percent of Americans say no to Kavanaugh, 40 percent says yes to Kavanaugh. So this is a big split in the American mind. Fifty percent were OK with Neil Gorsuch just a year ago.

So it seems to me like there's something different about the Kavanaugh nomination, even among Republicans. The level of support is not what I thought it would be.

BILA: Kavanaugh is not radical to me at all. I think some Republicans, some people who are really conservative on the right, have taken issue with Kavanaugh from the other side, saying that his Obamacare rulings, you know, the comments that he's made about Obamacare, they don't feel safe about.

But I mean, when it comes to -- if you don't want to meet with someone of the opposition party, that's up to you. People do it on both sides. I think it's a bad idea when it happens on both sides, but it happens.

But this language to me, I'm always inclined to take the high road and say, "Why are we doing this? We sound like a bunch of mean girls and boys on the middle school playground." But whenever you take the high road, the person on the other side doesn't. And somehow -- t has to somehow happen on both sides or it doesn't make any sense.

WATTERS: Susan Collins did meet with Merrick Garland, for the record. Just so we're clear.

BILA: And I think Cuomo has gotten --

WILLIAMS: A Republican.

GUTFELD: With Merrick Garland.

WILLIAMS: Oh, Merrick Garland. No, no, no, no.

WATTERS: Juan, you just confused everybody.

WILLIAMS: You got me confused here. Anyway, Greg.

GUTFELD: OK, the initial question was do these comments help or hurt. I think this is progress. I mean, they moved from calling people to Nazis to jihadists. So that's definitely a softening. Now you can call them flesh- eating bacteria or animals.

Remember, these were the dopes who were offended when you called MS-13 gang members animals. "Oh, my God. You're calling these gang members animals. How dare you?" And yet this is what they do.

Cory Booker and Andrew Cuomo prove Charles Krauthammer's observation. The difference between the left and the right is the right things they're wrong or dumb but the left thinks you're evil. And so Cory immediately deemed the other side evil, which makes me think he's dumb.

BILA: Elizabeth Warren, by the way, does this all the time. This is her M.O. This is all she knows how to do. I'm always saying, like, run her because this is -- she has nothing to do but insult and throw names. There's no substance there ever.

She was saying that Kavanaugh was hostile to health care for millions. Based on what? Like, what is that kind of language, even? So I'm always telling Democrats, throw her front and center, please.

WILLIAMS: Wow. So you know, it's a good thing the president is a role model on not bullying and using aggressive linkage.

Anyway, airline CEOs feeling the squeeze after shrinking size of the seats on your next flight. Find out what we mean about this. You're going to get a little nervous. Itchy. Do you know what I mean? Next.


BILA: If you're sick and tired of squeezing into airplane seats that keep getting smaller and smaller, too bad. The Wall Street Journal had the CEOs of Delta and American cram into coach seats aboard their planes to see how it feels. Their conclusion: you won't be getting extra legroom anytime soon in economy class. In fact, their solution for squashed flyers is to pay up. Can you imagine saying that? You have to pay up?

PERINO: No, I can't believe that.

BILA: I mean, that is crazy.

PERINO: I mean, it is true that you can pay for more legroom or whatever. But then also every flight is full. So there is no incentive for airlines to change their planes. If people have to get somewhere, they're going to buy a seat.

BILA: The CEO -- it's funny, the two CEOs, the Delta CEO, Ed Bastian, is 6'3". The American CEO, Doug Parker, is also 6'3". The United CEO refused to do this, actually, refused to sit in the back and do the interview.

But my thing is, they show -- they say that the people were able to fit back there. No one in front of them was reclining. I think the recliner, that's the problem. Somebody in front of you reclines, and then if you are 6 feet tall -- I mean, maybe for you and I, Greg, it would be OK. But if you're 6 feet tall, your knees are going to go through. And Dana. Listen.

GUTFELD: You know what the big problem here, it's not about the seating. People don't mind -- a lot of people don't mind flying like that, because they don't fly that often. Wall Street Journal readers fly a lot, so they get this.

I think the bigger problem is they've got to figure out as soon as possible, they've got to change the seating and loading of passengers. Because we have this big problem right now with status inequality. You go on Instagram.

BILA: Yes.

GUTFELD: You just see how much better people's lives are. The idea of having people in coach walking through first class, I think is just such -- it's such a disillusion practice. They've got to fix that. Load -- load coach first and then load first last. How simple is that?

WATTERS: No, I don't like that idea. Because if you fly first class, then you have to wait. And it's better to get on and relax.

But I do dislike sometimes being in coach, and it hurts my ego. Because what you'll do is you'll walk past all of these people in first class and everyone is like, "Hey, Watters." And then you -- "Can I get a selfie?" Sure. And by the time you get to the way back by the bathroom, they're like, "Watters, what are you doing back here? Is FOX paying you anything?"

So it's a humiliating experience. But since I'm so humble, I can handle it.

BILA: What about you, Juan? Do you -- how do you feel? I mean, you're pretty tall.

WATTERS: He flies on a private jet.

GUTFELD: What great timing, you guys. "I fly coach." And then they show you a picture of you --


BILA: How do you fit in the seats?

WILLIAMS: I don't like it, especially toward the back of the plane. Like, if you're in -- I don't often get in the back anymore but it used to me, I used to travel the country as a journalist, you know, during campaigns and covering the White House. And sometimes you'd be in the back of the plane. If you get on the plane in the back, it's just terrible. It's hot and you can't breathe. It just aggravates my claustrophobia.

But I will say that the worst part now is that they're actually shrinking the bathrooms.


WILLIAMS: So the bathrooms now will make you just crazy. You think, how can you even move to, like, wash your hands? It's pretty -- and then the reclining seats that you were talking about.

PERINO: The reclining seats is -- forget it.

GUTFELD: It's not the hand washing that's hard.

WILLIAMS: But you know, so then I's reading that Wall Street Journal article, and it says, though, for every additional seat that an airline can fit in there, 400,000 more dollars per year. So they have an incentive to do this.

GUTFELD: We have to talk about this, because this is the biggest problem. Which is when you have to pee and you're on the tarmac. It is outrageous that they can tell that you can't go to the bathroom, which is harmful to your body.

WATTERS: Wait, you listen to them?

GUTFELD: No, I hear that the rule is just get up.

WATTERS: Yes, that's what I do.

PERINO: Can we show my picture real quick of me on the plane? And then we should do that -- that other -- Do we have it?


PERINO: I never really had a problem.

GUTFELD: Everybody's got a pee story.

PERINO: I do. I had one on the tarmac. I held it. But yes, I have one.

WILLIAMS: You have stories about the bathroom on Amtrak.

GUTFELD: No, I do, because the door doesn't lock so the door will slide open while you're doing your business. And being a famous person, I don't need pictures taken of me doing my business.

WILLIAMS: Yes, that -- disturbing.

BILA: "One More Thing" -- "One More Thing" is coming up next.

GUTFELD: I'm telling you, man.


WATTERS: Its time now for "One More Thing." There's a Japanese baby that's taking the Internet by storm. Look at the head of hair on this little tyke.


WATTERS: Look at that. It's like little Elvis.

GUTFELD: It's little Jesse.

WATTERS: Baby Chonko (ph) or something got 120,000 followers. Pretty good. So I was thinking how what I look with hair like that. Do we have - - there it is!

GUTFELD: It's the same!

WILLIAMS: Wait a second. I think it's Diamond and Silk.

WATTERS: You'll never give that up.

All right. Dana, go ahead.

PERINO: So do you want to hear about a rescue dog that rescues a dog? Well, here you go. Over the weekend, Tino, a search and rescue dog from McCleary, Washington, rescued another dog named Puppy, which might need a better name. He had been missing and stuck in a dense mud-filled gully for over 40 hours. He started the search at 4:30 4:30 a.m. Saturday morning and found Puppy stranded less than a half a mile from his home.

He was eventually freed after rescuers were forced to use ropes in order to pull the dog to safety. And it was Tino's first rescue mission. Congratulations, Tino.

Don't forget the "I'll Tell You What" podcast posts today on Wednesday.

WATTERS: That is a great name for a dog, Puppy.

PERINO: Puppy.

WATTERS: All right. Greg.

GUTFELD: All right. It's time for --


GRAPHIC: Greg's Plugs


GUTFELD: "Greg's Plugs." Pointing at my hair.

Anyway, on my podcast, if you go to, it's with the controversial film critic Armond White, who writes for National Review. Check it out. It's a great interview. We talk about all sorts of movies.

Also, if you haven't ordered my book, "Liberals, Liars and Leakers" -- don't do it. That's not the right book. You know what is up first for No. 1? You've got to go on "The View." I'm not going on "The View." But order it. Prove that I don't have to go on "The View" to make it No. 1.

WATTERS: I'd love to see you on "The View."

GUTFELD: Go to Or Simon & Schuster, wherever you want to go.

WATTERS: Juan Williams.

WILLIAMS: Remember that song "The Lion Sleeps Tonight"? Well, it really happened in Ashland, Oregon.

Take a look at this video, folks. Lauren Taylor came home to find a mountain lion entered the house through a back door. Her roommate screamed, and the lion hid behind the sofa.

BILA: Aww.

GUTFELD: She said, "Aww."

WILLIAMS: And then you guessed it, the lion took a nap for several hours. When he finally woke up, or she woke up, Taylor hit a drum to get it to go out.

The lion left without harming anyone.

BILA: Wow.

WILLIAMS: Video encounter gone viral. More than 24,000 views.

WATTERS: It's like the movie "The Hangover." Remember that? They woke up, it was in the bathroom.

BILA: I'd be stupid enough to be, like, "Oh, come in. Come on. Kitty, kitty." You know. That would happen to me.

WATTERS: The lion's name is Lion, by the way.

GUTFELD: Lyin' Lion.

BILA: I got jealous of Juan's story, so I had to do a story about a lioness. A little girl, Mila Chandler, was carrying around her favorite stuffed animal. She was at an Oklahoma City zoo, and Moto, a 3-year-old lion, sees the stuffed animal, and look, he wants to play with it.

GUTFELD: He wants to eat the baby! You guys -- why do you guys coo at a monster?

WATTERS: All right. Never -- set -- never miss an episode of "The Five." "Special Report" up next.

Bret, go ahead.

BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS: You guys have too much fun. Thanks, Jesse.

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