Kristen Fisher on her family's historic place in NASA

This is a rush transcript from "The Story," July 19, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, ANCHOR: Yes, we sure do. We're looking forward to that. We'll see you on Wednesday, Bret. In the meantime, have a great weekend.

Everybody else, stick around got a big show coming up tonight. The president says that we need to go to the moon. And then, to Mars from there, and he says it is not just about exploration.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT: We're going into the moon, but we're then going to Mars. And I think very importantly, as all of you folks know that from a standpoint of defense, so important. Where we're going to be doing the Space Force. I assume you guys are all in favor of the space force, aren't you? I'd be very surprised if you weren't. But that's where it's at.


MACCALLUM: Surrounded by Apollo 11 astronauts, in a world of cyberwar and drones, it's not hard to imagine that one day there may be battles in space, the kind that we've seen only in the movies.

Now, when JFK engaged in a battle to get to the moon, it was rooted in a larger struggle between American values and communism. Today, many believe that the biggest challenge to America and our way of life comes from China. They seek to dominate the world financially, technologically, and in global influence over other countries.

And it is not limited to this world. This piece today in the New York Post says, "The biggest threat to America's exclusive hold on the mantle of manned missions to the moon, however, is China."

And look at this, a survey of children ages eight to 12 in the United States and China. And the findings are pretty depressing. In the U.S., one-third, the largest number of those surveyed said that their top career aspiration is to be a YouTube vlogger. A professional vlogger as they are called.

In China, more than half of the kids want to be astronauts. It's the number one choice in China. Now, Buzz Aldrin fell in love with airplanes and flight in the moon when he was just a boy growing up in Montclair, New Jersey. He graduated from West Point, then he went on to the Air Force. He got his doctorate from MIT and was accepted into the NASA space program.

He did four spacewalks totaling just under eight hours in space. And fifty years ago tomorrow, the world held its breath and watched as he and Neil Armstrong and Michael Collins were the first men to land on the moon.

He has spent his life inspiring Americans to go further into space. And he's founded technology companies to do just that. He's an American hero and a space pioneer. Buzz Aldrin, thank you very much for being on “The Story” tonight, sir.

BUZZ ALDRIN, ASTRONAUT, APOLLO 11: Oh, thank you. I've looked forward to this very, very much, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Well, it is wonderful to have you here, especially tonight. And, you know, it's a -- very interested watching your moments in the -- in the Oval Office today. And you said that you are frankly disappointed when you look back at the last 10 to 15 years of NASA. Can you explain?

ALDRIN: Well, we -- I think we just haven't developed the highest performance rockets and the appropriate spacecraft that we should have to be able to carry out the challenges that we have and are facing. And we have to deal with what we have, and that we're going to make the very most of it, and I think I can contribute some ideas that will help it all come out very, very well.

MACCALLUM: Give me just one of those. You know, if you could change one thing about the current space program or financing or whatever it is, what would it be?

ALDRIN: Well, I think we need to go from Earth orbit to lunar orbit and back, and back and forth, rather than to a gateway. I know that that's a controversial term, but I just think that it's a diversion that were not -- we're forced into it because of the lack of performance of the large rocket.


ALDRIN: And the heavy spacecraft.

MACCALLUM: All right.

ALDRIN: But if we were to use two rockets and provide the propulsion, and then take the spacecraft to the moon, to low-earth orbit directly, then I think we could go back and forth between one orbit and the other. And with a very capable Lander, refueling on the surface, we'd be learning step by step the sort of things that in five or 10 years or 15 will enable us to set off to (INAUDIBLE) on Mars.


MACCALLUM: I know that you are anxious -- I'm sorry to interrupt. To step on the gas pedal, so to speak, in this program. I want you to listen to this back and forth that I thought was fascinating today between all of you in the Oval Office. And then, I want to get your thoughts on this.


TRUMP: To get to Mars, you have to land on the moon, they say. Any way of going directly without landing on the moon? Is that a possibility?


JIM BRIDENSTINE, ADMINISTRATOR TO NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION: Well, we need to use the moon as a proving ground, because when we go to the Mars -- we go to Mars, we're going to have to be there for a long period of time. So, we need to learn how to live and work on another world.

TRUMP: So, how long a trip to Mars? How long will it take?

BRIDENSTINE: It's about a seven-month journey there. The challenge is Earth and Mars are only on the same side of the sun once every 26 months.

TRUMP: Go ahead, tell me, what do you think?

ALDRIN: You come back and try it again.

TRUMP: Yeah, I guess, where you're (ph), well, that's a long time. That's a long time. How do you feel about it?

COLLINS: Mars direct.

TRUMP: You like to direct?


TRUMP: It seems, to me, Mars direct.

ALDRIN: They're impatient.

TRUMP: I mean, whose -- who knows better than these people, right?


MACCALLUM: I got to say, you know when there's a controversial subject, the president does this master fleet, he's got everybody in the room and he just gets everybody to weigh in. Do you believe -- you know, Michael Collins was fascinating, he said, "No, Mars direct."

And Bridenstine was explaining why that can't be done. What do you think?

ALDRIN: Well, anything can be done. It's just it is so much more logical to learn all the steps that need to be taken at the moon. All the conditions, the resources, the life-support systems, all the things that you would like to know before you set out to be sting, maybe your whole life once you get to Mars.

And we can learn all these things. And besides, we have other nations who can help us because they want to go back to the moon. And we can help share the cost of doing that and build a true alliance of all the capabilities and one, hopefully, planned to go there.

It would not be at all helpful to be competing back at the moon, or at Mars. It's very wasteful. This is one area above the atmosphere into orbit where all nations can and should cooperate together. Learn how we can work and help each other and take care of what sound underneath us, or what's back underneath us on the surface of the earth.

MACCALLUM: That's very interesting. This where all the people are, and we're out there, and we can explore. But we need to do that together, really. I've got one more question for you. You heard what I said about the survey that was done and how so many kids in America want to be YouTube stars, and kids in China want to be astronauts. What's your thought on that, sir?

ALDRIN: I'm not -- I'm not too surprised. 50 years ago being an astronaut was anew thing to do. And it certainly is a new thing for people in China to think about doing that. And I think it's a contribute -- a tribute to their imagination of wanting to do that.

And if we've lost that, then, that's why this five decades of Apollo is trying to inspire what this nation did 50 years ago, and we'll get caught up again with being able to do things of that inspiration again.

MACCALLUM: I (INAUDIBLE) hope that you are -- you are right, sir. Reach For The Stars is a great book that I read to my boys when they were little, and it's very inspirational as you have been, all over, all these decades. Buzz Aldrin, thank you so much. Good to have you here tonight, sir.

ALDRIN: Thank you, Martha. Thank you.

MACCALLUM: So, Buzz Aldrin will be back first thing tomorrow morning with Neil Cavuto on the official anniversary of the landing. And my next guest wrote about the Apollo 11 mission in his fantastic book, American Moonshot: John F. Kennedy and the Great Space Race, historian and author Douglas Brinkley joins me now. Doug, great to have you back on the program tonight.

What -- one thing I just thought the whole Oval Office meeting today was fascinating, he watched to debate between Bridenstine and Collins and Buzz Aldrin about what the next move should be to the -- to Mars or to the Moon. You know, what did you think about that and the interview, things that he said there, I thought was very interesting.

DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, PROFESSOR OF HISTORY, RICE UNIVERSITY: Well, really interesting and congratulations on getting to spend time with Buzz Aldrin, just one of the great Americans as this Michael Collins.


MACCALLUM: It's my pleasure, absolutely.

BRINKLEY: I thought it was interesting because they -- you saw in the Oval Office the kind of the debate we're having on the 50th anniversary. We all want a pioneer in space exploration, we can't retreat from space. We have over, you know, 2,000 satellites going around while you and I are talking.

And the question is, is that a more prudent to go back to the moon in four or five years or eight years, whatever it might be and kind of make a base camp there. We have people in the private sector like Jeff Bezos of Blue Origin suggesting that or is that problem going to be getting congressional funding on the -- well, the moon excite people again. We've already been there, is it a big generational sweep?

So, many say let's aim for Mars and take that spirit of Apollo and do that. And Michael Collins is a Mars person and that is also what Elon Musk with SpaceX is suggesting. So, the good news is we're all talking about moon and Mars, the question is what's our next big move?

MACCALLUM: Yes, you know when you look at all the other countries that are trying to get to the moon, you've got India, Israel has made some efforts. As I mentioned in China, of course, is also doing it.

Does it feel like these other countries are, you know sort of trying to -- trying hard to get into this space, so to speak, and that we're sort of delayed in our next move?

BRINKLEY: I think we're a little bit delayed. But you know, China went to the dark side of the Moon and it's a big deal, and as you're pointing out, it's a rage in China.


BRINKLEY: But there are other countries like Israel and Egypt and Brazil and Italy that have been participating in things like the International Space Station, and they would love to partner with the United States like Buzz Aldrin was suggesting. Japan, of course. So, it's going to be -- I don't know if we can afford to go it alone to Mars. That might end up being a group of nations working together.

But if China gets too aggressive in space, it might be a new spur the way the Soviet Union was for the John F. Kennedy era. Meaning, can we beat China in different realms of space exploration? The key is not to militarize space but to do it in the name of peace and scientific and public discovery.

MACCALLUM: Yeas, I mean, you could hear that loud and clear in what Buzz Aldrin was saying there. I thought that was very profound, very, very interesting coming from him. You know, just thinking about going to Mars, you know I think anybody who -- you know, grew up watching the space program, it's really basically in our neighborhood compared to going to Mars, which is a seven-month trip.

And as Buzz Aldrin said, you know, if you go you might not be coming back. We may have to only have a plan where you could go there and stay there, perhaps, forever.

BRINKLEY: And that's something that NASA hasn't -- has been allergic to. Because we're very big in the United States on re-entry. We want to bring our astronauts back alive. I mean, the Jet Propulsion Laboratory at Caltech, Pasadena is doing amazing work.

And right now -- tonight we could go look at the Mars rover and maybe watch what they're doing. But we don't want to send a robot to Mars, we'd like to send human beings. The timetable is always tricky. But I've done my own investigation talking to people.


BRINKLEY: And most people feel, by 2040, Mars is doable if we start focusing on that right now. That might seem like a long time but 20 years goes quickly.

MACCALLUM: It sure does. Doug, thank you so much. Great to see you again tonight.

BRINKLEY: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: Thank you for being here.

BRINKLEY: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: So, Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin and Michael Collins began their historic mission launching from the Kennedy Space Center in Cape Canaveral, Florida. Fox News correspondent Kristin Fisher is live there tonight.

She also happens to be the daughter of two astronauts. Kristin, thank you very much for being here today. We've been watching your coverage throughout the day. And one of the things that I particularly wanted to have you on tonight to ask you about is this -- you know, a lot of pieces that have been coming in the newspapers and on the Internet, basically blaming NASA.

Saying that it was never -- it was designed for men. Let's put this up on the board. It says, this is from the New York Times. Piece by Mary Kowal. "Everything in space carries the legacy of Apollo. It was designed by men, for men. It is important to examine the gender biases of the early space program. If we want to land the first woman on the moon, let's make sure that she has the tools designed with her in mind." Your thoughts on that.

KRISTIN FISHER, CORRESPONDENT: Well, Martha I think it's important to remember that this was not a NASA problem. This was a cultural problem. This was the 1960s and back then, women couldn't become fighter pilots. They couldn't become test pilots, and that was where NASA was pulling the bulk of its astronaut candidates from.

So, this was not a NASA problem. I think it's a little bit unfair to sort of frame it as that now. As for these spacesuits that we've heard so much about, remember the first all-female spacewalk that was supposed to take place earlier this year that was an issue that comes from money.

If NASA wanted, NASA would love to have as many spacesuits and as many different sizes to fit every type of person, man, woman, the problem was they are dealing with about a handful of spacesuits that are 40 years old.


FISHER: And if the American people has a problem with it, then Congress needs to give them more money to get new spacesuits.

MACCALLUM: Yes, it need to put the money where their -- where their mouth is so to speak. Your mom was a space pioneer though. She was the first mom to go into space, right?

FISHER: First mom to go into space, the fourth American woman to go into space. And I was talking to her earlier today, and she was reminding me about the time when she first joined the NASA astronaut program back in 1978.

One of the first things that she did was Sally Ride, was they went to a department store and they bought clothes. Baggy khaki pants, baggy polo shirts, because they wanted to be one of the guys. That was the mindset for that first class of female astronauts.

MACCALLUM: Well, she is incredible and so is your family. Kristin, thank you so much. Great coverage there. We'll be watching throughout the weekend. Good to see you tonight.

FISHER: Thanks, Martha.

MACCALLUM: You bet. So to learn more about the moon-landing, check out American Moonshot at Plus, fueling the message -- what is feeling the message from these four women and their view of America as imperfect. Mike Huckabee and Zuhdi Jasser join me next.


REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ, D-N.Y.: And this idea of like ten percent better from garbage is -- shouldn't be what we settled for.



MACCALLUM: All right, tonight, so for any lawmaker wondering what they should ask next week when Robert Mueller testifies on Capitol Hill, tonight some free unsolicited advice available from James Comey. Late this evening, the former FBI director put out a blog letting the members know what he thinks they should ask in their five minutes.

He lists 15 questions, many paired with an accompanying page number from the report such as just for an example, the first one. Did you find that there was a series of contacts between the Trump campaign and individuals with ties to the Russian government? it goes on and on from there. We will be on live coverage Bret Baier and I on Wednesday.

Also, tonight, what is the message of the intense debate that was fired up in our nation over these four members of Congress this week?


OCASIO-CORTEZ: It's been kind of a crazy week hasn't it? America has always been the story of those fighting to advance the rights of others and some clinging to a past to preserve the rights of a few.


MACCALLUM: So I guess it has been a crazy week, hasn't it? She talks about the rights of the few. She says America has always been the story of those fighting to advance the rights of others, and some clinging to the past to preserve the rights of the few.

I mean, that's true. What comes to mind? Slavery in the Civil War come to mind of course, the Emancipation Proclamation in January of 1863 that freed the slaves, World War Two comes to mind, women getting the vote, the liberation movement that followed, gay rights that led to the LGBTQ Movement, and the Supreme Court decision that made the same-sex marriage the law of the land in this country.

But last night Victor Davis Hanson joined me and touched on what he thinks drives these women in Congress and others to keep going now.


VICTOR DAVIS HANSON, MILITARY HISTORIAN: I think people feel that because of -- ironically because of her very success in addressing these sins of humankind, sexism, racism, class oppression, we've done a pretty good job of at least compared to other countries, and that creates these unreal expectations that we have to be perfect in free of all sin.

We wish we were but no society, no country has ever done that. So then people get frustrated and they say, well, we were flawed at the begin and they don't look at the United States empirically. So by any abstract or measure, we are great and we are exceptional, but not when you put so many demands on us to be perfect. No country can do that.


MACCALLUM: So we wanted to get some thoughts on this from Mike Huckabee former Arkansas Governor and Fox News Contributor and Zuhdi Jasser President of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy and host of the Blaze Radio podcast Reform This. Gentleman, thank you very much.

Good to have both of you here. You know, we're sort of witnessing and I think there's why there's so much interest in this debate between these women and President Trump this week because it really goes to sort of the nature of American values, American beliefs, and whether or not when people come to this country as was always the case for generations.

They almost wanted to leave behind right, the country that they left. They wanted to be part of this idea and they wanted to be part of America which is different than the places that they came from. Zuhdi, let me start with you. What are your thoughts on this?

ZUHDI JASSER, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN ISLAMIC FORUM FOR DEMOCRACY: Well, I have to tell you, you know, set aside the politics. We have this conversation every day among the Arabic, Syrian, Muslim community, whichever pigeonhole you want to put me into, the bottom line is our -- my parents made a choice. They chose freedom. Not only chose to leave the tyranny of Baathism and (INAUDIBLE) genocidal governments, but they chose freedom, secular liberal democracy.

They rejected Russian communism, they rejected Chinese communism, they rejected so many different ideas in order to come to America and that's what's getting lost in this conversation. I'm not a racist because I tell my friends who complain every day about America I want to throw up, and I tell them you know what, why are you here? Why don't you go elsewhere?

And yet many of my other Arabic friends love America and are tired of hearing our identity group, whatever it might be, flavor of the left today speak for us and make America to be the bad guy, bad country when in fact the Maduros of the world, the Assads of the world, and the tyrannies of the world really in an incomparable way oppress their citizens and that's the proportionality we should be presenting as Americans.

MACCALLUM: I want to go to up Mike Huckabee but first I want to play this from Congresswoman Omar.


REP. ILHAN OMAR, D-MINN.: When I said was the President's nightmare, well, you're watching it now because his nightmare is seeing a Somali immigrant refugee rise to Congress. We are going to continue to be a nightmare to this president because his policies -- because his policies are a nightmare to us.


MACCALLUM: Governor Huckabee, what do you think?

MIKE HUCKABEE, CONTRIBUTOR: I don't know why she thinks she's that important to President Trump. I can assure her that she's not. He won't have to take more than half a baby aspirin to be able to go to sleep tonight over her. He just isn't that into her. I think it's absurd.

And she has a delusional sense of her own worth and value that frankly is a little bit comical. Let's look at it this way. In the context of 50 years ago, we lifted an Apollo space rocket off the launch pad, but this country has been lifting people out of poverty more than any country in the history of the world. We've lifted people out of oppression. We've given women rights. We've done an enormous number of things that has made us the most prosperous country on earth.

MACCALLUM: But governor, they're saying yes, but it's not enough. They're saying it's not enough, that's there's further to go and other people might you know, obviously agree with them that there's further to go and that they have no patience for anything that exists in between.

HUCKABEE: I think we always ought to strive to be as our Founders set a more perfect union, but we're never going to be a completely perfect union, but we're getting there quicker than any other nation that's ever existed.

It's why I love my friend Dr. Jasser whose family came here because they did see something in America that was worth having. And I wish more people would listen to what he had to say than what the Congresswoman has to say.

MACCALLUM: Dr. Jasser, before we have to go, you know, do you think that - - you know, she says she's President Trump's worst nightmare because he doesn't want to see a Somali refugee rise to Congress. Do you think that is true, that that statement is true?

JASSER: No, that's -- Martha, that's gaslighting. She's gaslighting America because the bottom line, President Trump's worst nightmare is what she represents as far as immigrants that don't accept the social contract of America, our founding documents and what they represent as far as freedom and democracy, but rather she represents the narrative of Al Jazeera, and why so many of my core religion to start radicalized where they see the enemy as America as Israel while she presents BDS legislation, lied to her constituents saying she would never do that, is grossly anti- Semitic.

Yes, she's the tip of the iceberg of a global movement of a red-green axis that hates America --

MACCALLUM: All right, we're going to leave it there.

JASSER: -- and I think we need to learn from it, but it's not her as the governor says.

MACCALLUM: All right, gentlemen, thank you very much. Good to have both of you with us tonight.

HUCKABEE: Thank you, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Coming up next, further provocations from Iran, a dire warning tonight from the United States.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT: We are not -- we hope for their sake they don't do anything foolish. If they do, they will pay a price like nobody has ever paid a price.


MACCALLUM: Breaking tonight, a major escalation in the Persian Gulf after the Islamic republic's Revolutionary Guard today seized two oil tankers, 30 minutes apart both in a key international shipping route in the Gulf.

One of the ships captured is a British flag tanker. They have basically been threatening to do this for days. The other is a British operated Liberian flag tanker, President Trump issuing this warning late today.


TRUMP: Iran is in big trouble right now. Their economy is crashing. It's coming to a crash. They are trying to bring soldiers back home because they can't pay them. A lot of bad things are happening to them. It's very easy to straighten out or it's very easy for us to make it a lot worse.


MACCALLUM: Chief breaking news correspondent Trace Gallagher following this tonight at it develops. Good evening, Trace.


Let's begin with the U.K. oil tanker STENA IMPERIAL which has a crew of 23. The ship was in the Strait of Hormuz in international waters headed towards Saudi Arabia when it reportedly was approached by some unidentified small boats as well as a helicopter.

Iran's Revolutionary Guard later said the ship was seized for, quoting, "non-compliance with international maritime laws" which, of course, is a vague blanket charge that offers no specific violations.

The U.K. ship is now in or near an Iranian port. But the company that owns the tanker says it has been unable to contact any of the crew. Then less than an hour later the Liberian flag tanker, Mesdar, with a crew of 25 was also seized in the Strait of Hormuz, but now we're being told that Iranian guards have left the Mesdar and it is free to continue on its way.

Here's British Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt. Watch.


JEREMY HUNT, BRITISH FOREIGN SECRETARY: We will respond in a way that is considered but robust. And we are absolutely clear if this situation is not resolved quickly there will be serious consequences.


GALLAGHER: Of course, experts say Iran has been hit hard by U.S. sanctions. But the United Kingdom remains a signatory to the nuclear deal and has not yet re-implemented any of those snap back sanctions to Iran appearing to violate parts of the deal by enriching uranium to levels not agreed upon.

Today, on Shepard Smith's reporting, an expert on transnational freight told me he thinks Iran is seeing just how far it can push the envelope. Look.


SETH JONES, DIRECTOR, TRANSNATIONAL THREATS PROJECT: It's not a U.S. tanker. The Iranians have decided for the moment they are going to hold off on going after U.S. tankers because that's too escalatory.


GALLAGHER: And you heard President Trump says that he thinks Iran is in big trouble. While the president's remarks seem quite measured, but exerts also say a lot of this depends on the health and safety of the crew member. We should note U.S. Central Command says it has aircraft in the Strait of Hormuz right now monitoring and in contact with U.S. ships operating in the area. Martha.

MACCALLUM: Tense situations. Trace, thank you so much.

Coming up, Bernie Sanders campaign staffers want him to put his money where his mouth is. New document show that they are being paid less than what he wants to pay everyone else in the country.


SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, I-VT, D-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We should raise the minimum rage to a living wage $15 bucks an hour. And I've talked about it four years because (Inaudible).



MACCALLUM: Democratic socialist Bernie Sanders in a bit of a sticky situation on something that he has professed to support.


SANDERS: Many of the ideas that I put forth $15 an hour minimum wage, hey, Bernie, you're crazy. That's too extreme. If you are a great secretary of labor you will be supporting my legislation and other legislation to raise the minimum wage to $15 bucks an hour.

I helped lead the effort to raise the minimum wage to $15 bucks an hour.

Should we raise the minimum wage to a living wage? Yes.


MACCALLUM: So, you got the idea, but now the Washington Post today reporting this. Look at the headline. "Labor fight roils Bernie Sanders campaign, as workers demand the $15 hourly pay the candidate has proposed for employees nationwide."

According to the campaign documents obtained by the Post some staffers say that they are struggling to get by on the $13 an hour as they negotiate with the campaign for more.

Here no Steve Hilton, host of The Next Revolution and host of Deep Dive on Fox Nation, and Xochitl Hinojosa, a communications director for the DNC. Sochi, you know, --



MACCALLUM: I realize these are field jobs. You know, I think most of the campaigns pay less than $15. But you know, it says a number of things actually that he's got this outcry from within his own campaign.

HINOJOSA: Well, I will let him respond directly. But based on reporting that I have seen elsewhere and special -- and on Fox News as well, I have seen that the campaign has responded. And they have said that, you know, as you know that they were in union negotiations and their goal is to make sure that all their organizers are paid at least $15 an hour. In terms of specifics, I will let them talk about.

But I think the fact of the matter is, is that all of our Democrats and everyone on that debate stage believes that we need to raise the minimum wage. And he has made that clear. And everyone else has.

And the House just passed a bill to raise that to $15 an hour. But it's really unfortunate because you're not going to have Mitch McConnell bring it up in the Senate. So, we have been pretty clear about where we stand, every single Democrat running for president. And I am proud of that and I'm part to be part of a Democratic Party that stand with workers.

MACCALLUM: All right. So, Steve, a lot of companies have said that they have a problem with raising the wage to $15. They feel like what it will lead to are fewer jobs because companies will cut back if they have to pay, you know, entry level jobs at that level. Is this a lesson that perhaps Bernie Sanders is learning in his own -- in his own campaign shop?

STEVE HILTON, HOST: Well, it's interesting because when you actually look at the statement that the campaign manager has put out, he uses a phrase that's very familiar to people in the private sector especially the kind of corporations that Bernie spends his time attacking.

And that is, to say that we in the Bernie Sanders campaign, we offer -- we offer wage rates and benefits that are competitive with other campaigns. That's an interesting choice of words.


HILTON: They are saying look, basically, this is, it's a rough business and you don't get paid very much whichever campaign you go on. But I think the other specific key that I think is interesting is that the nature of the disputes -- and I think Xochitl is right to say they are trying to resolve this and they are trying to do it through the union.

And we got to give him credit I think for being the first campaign to actually unionize his workers so that they can actually have a mechanism to complain about these things. That is consistent with what he argues in his political message.

But I think the other element of this is very interesting is that the dispute really centers on healthcare benefits. And the workers are saying well, if you raise our -- raises to the next level of pay that gives us the $15 minimum then we have to contribute more of our healthcare costs and we don't want to do that.

Now, of course Bernie Sanders is going around to everyone saying you shouldn't have to pay for healthcare, it should all be provided free. So, I think what you are seeing is tension between that kind of universal message and the realities of actually running an organization.

MACCALLUM: Yes. You know, I have watched close up Bernie Sanders sort of wave off these concerns that, you know, companies have. But, Xochitl, I think it's undeniable, that this is the kind of negotiation that goes on when companies try to figure out -- I mean, he is essentially running a little business here. He's running a campaign, which is paying the employees. And obviously, they are finding a hard time giving them what he says everybody should get and also giving them the healthcare.

HINOJOSA: Well, I think that they are trying to work through it. And as I said before, I mean, I think their goal is to provide and to make sure that everyone makes 15, minimum $15 an hour.

But I think the broader message here is that when you are looking at corporations and especially corporations that got tax cuts from Donald Trump, you are seeing people benefit from the top and you are not necessarily seeing people's wages rise. And you're not seeing the American --


MACCALLUM: Well, wages have risen. Wages are definitely rising.

HINOJOSA: Well, you're not -- but when you are talking to your average voter and the voters that we are talking to, they are not feeling the benefits necessarily. And you still have a minimum wage that is quite low in the United States.

And so, I think the overall message here from the Democratic Party is that we need to do something and we need to do more to help our workers. And I think that is consistent across the board, whether it's Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren or anyone who is running for president on the Democratic side.

MACCALLUM: Well, these folks saying that it's hurting moral within the campaign and they had moral problems in the campaign the last time around. So, we'll see where this goes for them and we'll see if, you know, if they do what they say they plan to do. Xochitl, thank you very much. Steve Hilton, thank you both. Good to have you both here tonight.

HILTON: Thank you.

HINOJOSA: Thank you for having me.

MACCALLUM: Ladies night panel takes on sex before marriage? Why? Because it's summer and it's Friday. And they're here. And we can't wait. Come on in, girls.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, like, I have had sex.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. And Jesus still loves me.



MACCALLUM: All right. So, we don't usually talk reality TV shows. But this popular one has sparked a battle of immoral. And sometimes we talk about culture and all that kind of stuff. So, it's playing out on the internet on the "Bachelorette."

This week the fight between Hannah Brown and contestant Luke. She sent him home after his controversial comments over the intimate fantasy suite which happens, you know, like in the last -- I don't know, third or the last one or whatever.

They go stay overnight with each other with these guys and there are no cameras permitted at the important moments I guess towards the middle of the night. So, the final four men on the show have the opportunity like I said, to go on the suite. So, Hannah -- Luke is out, a very outspoken Christian, both of them. He didn't like that and here's what he said.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't believe that's something that you should be doing. I just want to make sure you are not going to be, you know, sexually intimate with the other relationships here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm a grown woman and can make my own decisions. And I don't -- I am not strapped to a man right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can understand a slip up. But like, with all of them?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I cannot believe you just said that. I'm so mad. I'm so mad. I don't owe you anything at this point.


MACCALLUM: My gosh. It's just too great. The fight heated up. Luke P. brought Hannah's attention to Hannah's religion into the conversation and she responded like this.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, like, I have had sex.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. And Jesus still loves me.


MACCALLUM: That went -- that is -- time for ladies' night. Lisa Boothe, Susan Li, and Rochelle Ritchie. Welcome, ladies. Good to have you all here. I want to start with what she said also about one of her fantasy suite nights. That it was in a windmill. They're all in like, these all different locations in all of these things. So, watch this.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn't just go to the fantasy suite. I (muted) in the windmill. And guess what, we did it the second time.


MACCALLUM: So, she is very shy, very reserved. Lisa Boothe, first up.

LISA BOOTHE, CONTRIBUTOR: So, I do watch this show.


MACCALLUM: Time for --

BOOTHE: I probably going to get a lot of judgment.

MACCALLUM: It's so embarrassing, but, so what?

BOOTHE: I hope that -- you know, sometimes you're done with the news, you just need -- you need to unwind. If you want to veg out and just watch something.

MACCALLUM: Completely ridiculous escape. You want a good laugh.

BOOTHE: Exactly. A hundred percent I'm with you, Martha. But actually, I the animosity towards Luke P. is unwarranted on my opinion. Because look, if you are dating someone, wouldn't you want to know if they had sex with someone prior to going on a date with them prior just days before or potentially the night before.

I think if you truly want to engage in a loving relationship and move forward in that, you -- that's something you would want to know. And I think that would shape your opinion of that person. And if you see that individual as a lifelong, you know, a lifelong partner. I think that's fair.

MACCALLUM: In the real world, I would say yes. But on the "Bachelor" you walk into it knowing that she is going to be dating 20 something guys, Susan, and then at the end they all like, they get this little card? Would you like to go to fantasy suite overnight with this young man? You know, there's like three of them left and I don't think I've ever -- maybe one time somebody said no once.



LI: Well, OK. I would like Marilyn Monroe in this case, which is, if you can't handle me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best. Now I'm not saying that is she chooses to sleep with other men, that's her worst. He seems a bit controlling, doesn't he? I mean, she is free person. She's allowed to make her decisions, and if she wants to sleep with this guy, good for her.

MACCALLUM: That's exactly why she ended up kicking him to the curve. It's also because of this kind of behavior which the other guys warned her about.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I might see it that you are falling and you are reaching for branches.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am never and I'm not ever going to reach for anything. I've been nothing but truthful with Hannah and you are not going to mess it up. Look this right here, this is a pile of baloney. Look at that.


LI: Wow.

MACCALLUM: This might be even more instructive for Hannah to watch than the other stuff. Rochelle?

BOOTHE: That probably is.

ROCHELLE RITCHIE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, this seems very scripted. But this is a reminder to people that if you are not ready for the truth, maybe you do not want to ask the question. And maybe this was a question he shouldn't have asked.

And this is the other thing. If they broke up over this, it was not going to last anyway because if you are talking about getting married and all that, there's a lot of other things that come with marriage. And if you can't have this little disagreement or feel like you know, your boyfriend or your husband kind of shamed you a little bit, you aren't ready to begin with.

MACCALLUM: I think this parting ways is probably for the best.

LI: Yes.

BOOTHE: We're probably not compatible.

LI: Yes.


MACCALLUM: I think we can wait for (Inaudible). So, let's got to the city of -- to a California city which has banned words like manhole, meaning the circular thing that you climbed into, because they say that they are banning gendered words. And it says having a male centric municipal code is inaccurate and not reflective of our reality. Women are non-binary individuals are just as entitled to accurate representation. So, there you go. Our laws are for everyone. Rochelle?

RITCHIE: You know, it's hard to even form an opinion over this. It is the dumbest thing that I have ever heard. I mean, we are really talking about a manhole. The front door to where rats lives pretty much.

You know what I mean? Like, we're really have to put some sort of --

BOOTHE: Might be fit ins.

RITCHIE: Yes. Like, I am over it. I am over a lot of stuff this week.

MACCALLUM: Yes. All right. So, I'm going to jump ahead here because I want to show everybody this poll which I thought was very interesting, international poll done by YouGov. Who are the most admired women in the world? Michelle Obama is the most admired woman in the world. I think, Lisa, if she decided to -- I know she doesn't want to ran for president -- I think if she decided to ran tomorrow, she probably would win.

BOOTHE: She probably -- well, I don't -- well, presidency I'm not sure, but I do think if she ran for Senate or governor or something particularly if they go back to Illinois --


MACCALLUM: I'm talking about the presidency of the United States?

BOOTHE: I think she would certainly be a contender, yes, 100 percent. I mean, she is incredibly popular as evidenced by this poll. I will say one thing that really bothered me about her was this snub to Melania Trump when she had talked about the Tiffany and Company box that was given to her. Because I think Melania Trump was clearly trying to be very polite and do a nice thing. And so, for Michelle Obama to sit her and to snub her and to sort of ridicule and diminish, I think that was --


RITCHIE: Yes. Let's not forget that Melania also was sort of part of that whole birtherism issue as well. So, there's been some little --


BOOTHE: She was?

RITCHIE: Yes, she was.

MACCALLUM: I never heard anything --

RITCHIE: She was. Yes, she said in an interview that Barack Obama was not born in this country.

BOOTHE: If something gives a gift, just accept it and say thank you, especially if it's Tiffany, from Tiffany.

LI: Yes, I would have lot a box.


MACCALLUM: I have no time left. So, I'm going to -- five seconds left.

LI: I actually clicked through the rest of the most admired people in America.


LI: I don't trust YouGov because they said the most popular people in America, number one, Prince Harry, number two, the Queen, number three, Bill Gates. Come on. Please.

MACCALLUM: Yes. And Emma Watson is on the list too. She is British as well. So obviously there is a lot of admiration for her.


BOOTHE: Skewed.

MACCALLUM: Something going on over there across the pond.

BOOTHE: Fake news.

MACCALLUM: Ladies, thank you very much.

LI: Skewed.

MACCALLUM: Have a great weekend and "Bachelorette" free weekend --

LI: Yes.

MACCALLUM: -- to all of you. More of “The Story” coming up right after this.


MACCALLUM: Finally, tonight, 76 years after one of the bloodiest battles of World War II, the remains of 22 U.S. service members killed at the Battle of Tarawa have returned to U.S. soil.

They are believed to be those of marines and sailors from the 6th Marine Regiment who stormed Tarawa, an island that was heavily fortified by the Japanese in November of 1943. Eighteen thousand U.S. marines took part in a bloody three-day battle to overtake the island, more than 1,000 of them lost their lives there.

We will follow this story as they are identified and returned to their families. We thank them and their families for their service.

That's it for “The Story” on Friday, July 19, 2019. As always, “The Story” goes on.

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