Kelly: Trump interview will give voters 'a lot to digest'
Megyn Kelly previews her sit down with the presumptive Republican presidential nominee
This is a rush transcript from "The Five," May 17, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Here we go. Hello, everyone. I'm Kimberly Guilfoyle along with Juan Williams, Eric Bolling, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld. It is 5 o'clock in New York City, Election Day in two more states, and this is "The Five."
The first polls close in Kentucky's democratic primary in one hour, 55 delegates are at stake. In Oregon, 61 delegates are in play. Can Hillary Clinton end her losing streak against Bernie Sanders? More on that -- ahead, a GOP primary is also under way in Oregon, 28 delegates in that contest, Donald Trump is of course running unopposed. And speaking of Trump, the interview that we have all been waiting for finally airs tonight, Megyn Kelly's one-on-one with the presumptive GOP nominee. "Megyn Kelly Presents" airs on the Fox Broadcasting Network at 8:00 p.m. Eastern. Here's a clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEGYN KELLY, "THE KELLY FILE" HOST: Most kids between the ages of six and 16 have been bullied at some point in their lives. Were you ever bullied?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESUMPTIVE GOP NOMINEE: No, I wasn't. But I have seen bullying. And bullying doesn't have to be just as a child, I mean, I know people bullied when they're 55-years-old.
KELLY: It can happen when you're 45.
TRUMP: You know it happens, right? But you got to get over it. Fight back. Do whatever you have to do. I've been saying during this whole campaign that I'm a counterpuncher. You understand that. I'm responding. Now, I then respond to times, maybe 10. I don't know. I mean, I respond pretty strongly. But in just about all cases, I've been responding to what they did to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: We can't wait to see it and you know who else can't? Donald Trump. He tweeted this morning, "I look forward to watching Megyn Kelly tonight. It will be interesting to see how she treats me. I think she will be very fair." All right, joining us now is Megyn Kelly herself. Welcome back to "The Five" Megyn. Hillary Clinton's revealed the job she would give her husband if she wins the White House, a job she should be doing as president.
KELLY: Hi. Thanks for having me.
GUILFOYLE: Great to have you. Congrats on the interview and everybody is going to look forward to seeing it tonight on big Fox.
KELLY: Yeah. That's right, big Fox, American Idol Fox that I've been saying. You know American Idol is no more.
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Sadly.
KELLY: Yeah.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: Entire Fox, you know that, the other Fox. It gets confusing because we work for Fox News Channel. Anyway, I do -- I will be fair and I think there's a lot to digest for the entire country, in other words, for Trump fans and for people who aren't fans of Trump in this interview. It's an expos, on the candidate, unlike any you've ever seen. I think the place we go, the questions are unusual, they're not questions you've heard everywhere, and the answers are unusual. It's Donald Trump, I think as you have not seen him.
GUILFOYLE: Well, did you have a set of expectations kind of going in of how you thought it might go and what happened during it?
KELLY: Well, I was hoping it would go well. You know what I mean, obviously he had been upset with me for nine long months, and I wasn't looking to have some sort of a cage match. As you know, being her Trump's detractors, some of them were like, kill him, go kill him, you know. And there's like look, presidential debates are one thing, that's a-plus level, Olympic- level questioning. This is an interview. It's an interview where I'm trying to get information and tell a story and shine a light on this man. So we didn't, you know, there were so many ways we could have gone about it. We could have gone deep into NATO, and China, and you know, trade. That's been done. So I decided to make it more about him and in particular, temperament to see you know whether, whether we should expect a change in Donald Trump, but also, who he really is. Like, does he -- did he mean it these nine months with the tweets, and the comments, and the boycotting of the debate? Or was it strategy? And now that he's so close to the most powerful position in the world, does he understand the size of the microphone he has? And the impact he can have on people's lives.
GUILFOYLE: So interesting.
(CROSSTALK)
GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: The size of his microphone --
(LAUGHTER)
GUTFELD: Don't worry about it.
KELLY: God forbid, you let that pass, Greg.
GUTFELD: Yes. Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
GUTFELD: Sorry.
GUILFOYLE: He has a real question now, Greg.
(LAUGHTER)
GUTFELD: You know this is amazing. It's an amazing rivalry. It's like the sharks and the jets --
KELLY: Except I haven't been fighting.
GUTFELD: Oh no. OK, maybe it's Daniel LaRusso and Johnny Lawrence from "Karate Kid."
KELLY: Oh, oh.
GUTFELD: How is that?
KELLY: Can I be Daniel?
GUILFOYLE: Yeah.
KELLY: The other guy was a real jerk.
GUTFELD: Or thorns (ph) versus ISIS and bring it on? Or Woody versus Buzz Lightyear.
(LAUGHTER)
GUTFELD: Professor versus Magneto, Katie versus Regina in "Mean Girls."
(LAUGHTER)
GUTFELD: That's what it is. No, I find it interesting, the one clip is probably the most -- it's a valuable things it, it exposes this paradox that Trump's kind of sensitivity drives him to bravado. And so he's always saying like, you know, I am fighting back. I am fighting back. But sometimes it feels like he's lashing out and I'm wondering does he ever feel any remorse about sometimes this impulsive action?
KELLY: We get into it. I think you find his answer very compelling, but one of the things he said to me on the subject, and I said look, you are so powerful now, which he is. He has a very powerful position. He said, "I don't see myself as powerful. I see myself as someone fighting for survival." I mean that's truly how he -- he doesn't see what the rest of us see. And I think it leads to some of the decisions he makes. And he talks a lot about how he's a counterpuncher, right? He's a counterpuncher. The question is, is that true? Right, because, you know, he obviously came after me, but it wasn't just me, but for what, for a debate question, right? So it's like, OK, you can understand he goes after Ted Cruz, he goes after Marco Rubio who are saying he's an idiot, and he's terrible, and he's the devil. Yes, those are counterpunching. You know that is counterpunching, but I asked him a tough question at a debate and there's no question, it was a very tough question. So clearly, whether, you know, Trump's version of counterpunching, which is sort of a nine-month, you know, campaign qualifies as such. And what I was trying to get to is not to relegate all of that, but to get to. Is this what we're going to see from you as president, because just as powerful as he is now, he'll going to be even more powerful if he wins in November. And you know, you have to wield that power responsibly, not, not having anything to do with me, but having to do with the American population and those who wind up in Trump's crosshairs because they challenge him, because they say things he doesn't like, because they have positions that don't match with his own.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah.
PERINO: I have a question about -- just reading, of course, you know, we all love the Twitters. This mistaken notion, it's mistaken to me, notion that you personally have benefitted from all of this. That it was to your benefit to go through what you went through with him for those nine months. And I wonder what you think about that when you hear people say it having watched this from at least afar, watching you, I don't think you would think that's a benefit.
KELLY: No. And Dana is being nice, because she's a good friend of mine so she's actually gone through a lot of this with me, but I -- I don't love that because look, people, people start to look at the fact that I was on the cover of "Vanity Fair" and that was an amazing thing. I mean, there's no question that was bizarre.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: It was pretty cool. The thing was you remembered yours.
GUTFELD: Yes.
KELLY: Yeah.
GUTFELD: Yeah.
(LAUGHTER)
PERINO: You looked amazing.
KELLY: But -- yeah, you looked hot.
PERINO: Tall.
KELLY: But look, my position on this is, I've been on lots of magazines, well, before Trump. And the thing is, look, we work at the Fox News Channel, it's the most powerful news channel out there. And who am I surrounded by? Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly, those are big stars by any measure. I think anybody in the country knows who they are. So Roger Ailes has given me this very powerful platform at 9:00 p.m. here on FNC, and that's led to people know who I am. So maybe Trump accelerated to some extent, the exposure that I had. But look, I don't, I don't give him the credit for that, to be perfectly honest. And as far as the year goes, you know, this is part of what I was trying to get at, because the truth is when Trump comes after you, it's not just Trump, I mean, any of us. We're in news. We're used to people saying nasty things about us. You know like, everybody hear --
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: It's what happens with the supporters. Not all of them. You know most of them are just God-loving Americans who are home like yes, would you help me out for the love of God. But some are not that way, and some take to like serious threats. And, you know, I have three young kids and I don't have secret service following me around. And so that piece of it has been very dark. And you know I'm hoping that that's all over now.
GUILFOYLE: You brought up a good point, though, about you and Doug, closer together. You know, the whole family, because you guys bonded together to kind of like take on the world. Which I thought was nice for you, (inaudible).
KELLY: I think Doug should run for office.
(LAUGHTER)
KELLY: Doug, you know --
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: Honestly, he's -- just as dark as some of the moments have been. I look at him and I think -- yes. That is a man. That is a man. And that's the man I want my two sons to be like. And you know I hope other sons out there are like. I mean, he's just, he's respectful, and he's kind, and he's loving, and he's intelligent and he is -- help get me through this.
GUILFOYLE: And talented in "New York Times" best-selling author.
(CROSSTALK)
GUILFOYLE: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
GUTFELD: I don't like him.
(LAUGHTER)
KELLY: I know.
GUTFELD: I don't like him at all.
GUILFOYLE: Jealous, right.
KELLY: If he weren't so nice it would be easy to hate him.
(LAUGHTER)
GUILFOYLE: Bolling.
ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: So Megyn, look, any negotiation you go in and you have ideas and this is what I want to get out of it and this is what I'm willing to give up. I'm sure you had that set and you had your boundaries. I'm trying to think of it from Donald Trump's standpoint right now. And if you, when you went into this negotiation, I'm sure you were gaming that as well, what were his boundaries as well. What do you think he was looking to get out of it? And what do you think would have been just a little bit too much for him?
KELLY: Well, I mean, I was -- what I was looking to get out of it was just to, sort to put an end to the acrimony on his end, get past it so I can just cover him like a normal journalist covering a candidate. And my thought was, he had - he has something to gain, because at that point he was right before he secured the nomination. I mean I realize it could still fall apart, but the odds are, he's the nominee. So he's heading into a contested convention, he's heading to a general election. And now might be a good time to mend some fences, I know, that was my thinking on his part. And sure of, just as I'm thinking this and thinking I've got this special, and it will be a great time to air that interview. He stopped with the tweeting, you know, a sort of a tweet lull. And I thought, OK, this is my chance, you know, it seems like the stars are aligning for us to finally sit down together. And, you know, I think Trump was still ticked off because when I first reached out to him, he was like, no.
(LAUGHTER)
KELLY: And then I did again, and then finally he was like OK, I'll see you. And I just knew, Eric, that if I could get in there face to face with him, you know, because we always had a good relationship. We always had always had a good relationship. You know, we were friendly and got along. I didn't know him very well, but we were friendly, that he -- we could get past it. And that's why I didn't want anybody else in the room. I just wanted to sit down, the two of us. He was very gracious. You know, I was a little nervous when I went to the Trump Tower, because I didn't know exactly what to expect. I didn't think he was going to like, you know pummel me or anything, but it was a little, you know like, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. And he was really gracious. I knew, I knew we were going to be on a better footing.
BOLLING: Any surprising answers?
KELLY: Yes
PERINO: Yeah.
KELLY: Definitely. Yeah.
(LAUGHTER)
BOLLING: Do you want to give us --
GUILFOYLE: Dana has the transcript.
BOLLING: The surprise -- give us a question that you were most surprised by the answer. Can you do that?
GUTFELD: That's a good one.
KELLY: Let me put it to this way, we get into the subject of Twitter, and as that discussion starts you can see it coming at us like a freight train. And there's that, and then there's also the matter of, I asked him this question, have you ever been emotionally wounded? Has anyone ever emotionally wounded you? Don't you want to hear his answer to that, first of all?
BOLLING: I do.
KELLY: So I really just wanted to hear that.
PERINO: The other one too. Didn't you say that you had some pop culture questions for him, kind of?
KELLY: Yes, like -- like, you know, what are his favorite this and that and the other thing. And so, you know, this is a show where we want people to stay tuned, so we have a little bit that we're going to run at the end. And I will tell you in the end, at the end of the show, he says something -- that was shocking!
(LAUGHTER)
KELLY: Shocking.
(LAUGHTER)
KELLY: And I said to Bill Geddie, the producer like, make sure you'll include that and you guys at this table will particularly appreciate it.
JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: So is he going to come on the Megyn Kelly show?
KELLY: "The Kelly File."
WILLIAMS: Yeah.
KELLY: Yeah.
WILLIAMS: On Fox News Channel?
KELLY: I think so. You know, I mean, that's my hope is. And then when he does, we can get back into those policy debates that we have with all the candidates that you see all the time on cable news. You know, I mean, we don't -- I don't want every debate to be about his temperament and I didn't want just another interview about China, either.
WILLIAMS: Right
KELLY: So I'm hoping that this is sort of -- this was the right time for --
WILLIAMS: So I was --
KELLY: And now we move back.
WILLIAMS: I'm also interested in what you got from Robert Shapiro, because I was following that O.J. Simpson special, you know.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah, (inaudible).
WILLIAMS: And then you have John Travolta playing Robert Shapiro. And I -- by the way, Travolta did a fabulous job.
KELLY: With the eyebrows.
WILLIAMS: Yes, ma'am.
KELLY: Yeah.
WILLIAMS: But he wasn't always a sympathetic character. And so -- and he's going to tell you tonight what O.J. said to him in that critical moment when the verdict was announced.
KELLY: It's a secret he's kept for 20 years. He hasn't spoken now in 20 years. And tonight on camera I asked him, what did he say when he leaned over and he whispered in your ear. What did he say? And he answered it. And meanwhile, I don't know -- Kimberly, you know, I'm like --
GUILFOYLE: Yeah.
KELLY: How is he telling me this?
GUILFOYLE: It's unbelievable.
KELLY: Right?
GUILFOYLE: Yeah.
GUTFELD: Just like I said legal zoom.
(LAUGHTER)
KELLY: Can I tell you he's --
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: He -- Robert Shapiro was one of my favorite interviews, because he was so forthcoming. You know .
GUILFOYLE: Yes.
KELLY: . we all law students followed this O.J. -- I mean, America followed the O.J. case, gavel to gavel when I was in school. And that was the dream team and he's very open about his thoughts on O.J., on the trial, on whether the real killer has ever stood trial. What they did with that glove and what he did personally in the courtroom the day before O.J. tried it on, on his thoughts about O.J. laughing and glad-handing days after the verdict with people, why O.J. didn't hire him when he got in trouble again, all sorts of interesting and honest admissions. And poor Robert Shapiro had a terrible tragedy in his life years after the O.J. case in which his 20- some-year-old son died of a drug overdose --
GUILFOYLE: Brent Shapiro, his foundation--
KELLY: And the kids around him saw him O.D., and were afraid that they were going to get in trouble if they brought him to the E.R.
GUTFELD: That's the 911 theory.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: Yeah.
KELLY: Well, and thanks to Robert Shapiro now, there is a good samaritan push.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah.
KELLY: So he talks openly about that and about disconnecting, you know, his own son from life support. I mean there are emotional moments and with Laverne Cox as well, who is, you know, the first transgender superstar we've had in the country. As we all know, Caitlyn Jenner too, but Laverne is somebody who is, you know, she's sort of earned our attention as an actress who happens to be transgender and she has an identical twin brother who is still living as a man.
WILLIAMS: Wow.
KELLY: Yes.
WILLIAMS: I didn't know that part.
KELLY: I know.
WILLIAMS: Yeah.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: I think so.
GUILFOYLE: It's a fascinating thing.
KELLY: I think so.
GUILFOYLE: People are going to just want more.
KELLY: Oh, I have to say one other thing.
GUILFOYLE: That's the thing. Go ahead.
KELLY: Michael Douglas, so I get to ask him about this moment. Here's a quiz for you at this table.
GUTFELD: Yes. I don't know the answer.
KELLY: What moment in the campaign involved a presidential candidate quoting lines from a Michael Douglas movie?
BOLLING: Greed is good?
KELLY: No, that's a good guess. Nope.
PERINO: I don't remember.
GUTFELD: Let's see.
KELLY: Wrong candidate, first of all. I'm assuming you mean Trump.
(LAUGHTER)
GUTFELD: No, if it was Trump, it would have been Basic Instinct.
(LAUGHTER)
GUILFOYLE: It was going so well until then.
PERINO: That's a tease.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: You'll see it and you'll see him react. We have it teed up where the candidate says this stuff and we've got the character in the movie say it. It is so fun to watch and then to see Michael Douglas reacts. Anyway, that plus people have been reporting that he is dying, so we talk about whether that is true and his marriage to Catherine Zeta-Jones. They were all really great -- it's been a lot of fun.
(CROSSTALK)
GUILFOYLE: Well, it's going to be a fantastic special, everybody is going to want more. So, congratulations, Megyn.
KELLY: Thank you.
BOLLING: Congrats.
KELLY: Thanks guys.
GUILFOYLE: All right. So don't miss "Megyn Kelly Presents" tonight on the Fox Broadcasting Network, 8:00 p.m. eastern. It's a must-see TV. And make sure to catch her on "The Kelly File" tonight at 9:00 p.m., all right, two both of those things that will make us happy.
(LAUGHTER)
GUILFOYLE: Ahead, Hillary Clinton's revealed the job she would give her husband if she wins the White House, a job she should be doing as president. Next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUTFELD: So, who should run the economy when you've got a woman president? Her husband, of course:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My husband, who I'm going to put in charge of revitalizing the economy, because you know, he knows how to do it. And --
(APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: Especially in places like coal country and inner cities, and other parts of our country that have really been left out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: So relieved. Yes, Hillary says if you elect her, a female, you get a male to handle the economy. Which I guess gives Hillary more time to stay home and bake cookies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: I suppose I could have stayed home and baked cookies and had tea.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: It's weird campaigning as the first woman then selling the man. Imagine voting for President Obama because he's the first black president and instead you get Ted Nugent. Bill doesn't mind, of course he loves the work and he knows women and their checkbooks. The only thing they can balance are plates when clearing the dinner table, am I right, Bill? That's the sexist commentary Hillary's promise invites. And it's disgusting Dana.
Here we are on the verge of a historical moment, the first female president and she is saying, don't fret America; my hubby is going to handle the hard stuff. Because all those numbers are so confusing, math is so hard; dividends, remainders -- I just round up.
Isn't it strange? Gender has been the crux of her sales pitch all this time, until now when her campaign is struggling. Suddenly competence, which breeds peace of mind, matters. The lesson Hillary seems to be imparting: Vote for me, but you get the dude instead. In business terms, that's called a bait and switch, one that most Americans frankly wouldn't mind.
Dana you were tweeting about this last night. You were --
PERINO: I'm glad I inspired you.
GUTFELD: Yeah, OK. Of course you did.
PERINO: No, but it did bug me when I --
(LAUGHTER)
PERINO: When I first heard that she had said this, I thought, wait a second. So, we're supposed to want to vote for the first woman president .
GUTFELD: Yes.
PERINO: . so that he, her husband can handle the most important issue, according to Americans, the economy.
GUTFELD: Yeah.
PERINO: The other thing is that, I think it is more persuasive when she says in her supporters say, Hillary is the one running for president, Bill Clinton is not running for president. So they try to separate it out and say his character issues and his past should have no bearing .
GUTFELD: Yeah.
PERINO: . on her, because she is running, he is just her supportive husband. Well, now he's going to be in charge of running the economy.
GUTFELD: But you see that, I think, Kimberly, that her, she knows that hurts her. The two for one is her only selling point. It used to be gender, now it's two for one.
GUILFOYLE: No, yeah. She's really shot herself in the foot this time. But here's the best part, let Bill handle the economy. If the man wants to pay the bills too, like pay off the debt with all these Goldman Sachs speeches that they get to do. I mean, she doesn't realize her whole thing is, vote for me, I'm the woman. I can handle it. I've got the experience. And first thing she does, about the number one issue in all the exit polls is the economy.
GUTFELD: Yeah.
GUILFOYLE: And jobs and she says, don't worry, (inaudible), we're going to get bubba to do it. It's like craziness.
GUTFELD: And Eric --
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: No, I don't think any of that.
GUILFOYLE: What is it?
GUTFELD: Don't you think the economy is --
BOLLING: No.
GUTFELD: . was a myth in the '90s?
BOLLING: Yes, yes.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: And here are the numbers, (inaudible), the reason why Bill did so well because of Ronald Reagan. Ronald Reagan came in 1980 -- '80 and left in '88. In '80, GDP was negative three tens of 1 percent. When he left it was 7.91 percent (inaudible). Inflation dropped from 13 percent down to 4 percent and unemployment went from 8 down to 5; great, great times, poverty down, taxes down, real income up. So he had this massive amount of momentum going forward. H.W. Bush four years, and then Clinton takes over and to his credit Bill Clinton actually helped out, he also kept the momentum going. He had a great eight years economically, but one thing happened under Bill Clinton that Hillary Clinton will never mention -- this is because it's part of her campaigns platform in 2016. Under Bill Clinton, income inequality spiked to its widest part in modern history. So under Bill, incomes went way up for the top 1 percent, while they went up for the lower, but not nearly as high and here's why, because he deregulated Wall Street. And what I think this is all about, this whole thing, not because the husband is going to take care of the economy, it's her head tip to Wall Street saying, this guy was good to you in the '90s, he'll be good to you again if you elect me president, and that will keep that money flowing for her.
GUTFELD: Interesting.
WILLIAMS: Wow --
PERINO: She knows how to balance the budget?
WILLIAMS: Yeah.
GUILFOYLE: Represent her on that.
PERINO: Republicans took over in '94 .
WILLIAMS: Yeah.
PERINO: . and forced his hand.
WILLIAMS: But let me just say it's very curious to me. So according to this theory, Jimmy Carter .
BOLLING: Horrible.
WILLIAMS: . is the one who is to get responsibility and all the credit for what Ronald Reagan did in the '80s.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: He buried the economy so bad.
WILLIAMS: No, no, because he kept inflation down. Is that the theory? You know, because I learn so much on this show every day.
BOLLING: No, no, no. Inflation skyrocketed under Jimmy Carter.
WILLIAMS: No, no. But then he put in maneuvers. And not only that, he put in a lot of deregulation that then, of course, accrues to Ronald Reagan. You know what?
BOLLING: Well, you should Juan, Juan stick to the numbers. Stick to the numbers.
WILLIAMS: I understand. I don't think that the numbers --
BOLLING: That none of them is accurate.
WILLIAMS: Under Ronald Reagan things got better.
BOLLING: Ronald Reagan --
WILLIAMS: Under Bill Clinton things got better, but I will say this, I think all of you are wrong.
BOLLING: Income inequality is a massive issue for Hillary --
WILLIAMS: Yes. I agree, absolutely.
BOLLING: And under Bill Clinton, it spiked to its widest margin in modern history.
WILLIAMS: No, no. oh please.
BOLLING: Yes.
WILLIAMS: I don't know.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: We're approaching the widest margin right now. But let me --
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: All right, let me just move on and just say this. I think this is really about Kentucky, because we got a Kentucky primary tonight. And guess what, Bill Clinton won twice in Kentucky. I think the last democrat.
GUTFELD: That's a good point.
WILLIAMS: OK. And the second thing to say is Bill Clinton's favorability rating, I think is 57, something like that, percent. The guy is extremely popular. So there's a nostalgia play being made here by Hillary Clinton. She's saying the economy was great during the '90s, don't forget that. And I'm going to put Bill Clinton here as part of my team. Now the question is, well so what is he? Is he treasury secretary?
GUTFELD: Yeah.
WILLIAMS: Is he on the council of economic advisers? Is he the liaison to the chamber of commerce? I don't know.
PERINO: Put him in charge of health care.
GUTFELD: Oh, there you go. I don't know. I just assume she would take the back seat to no man, especially Bill. All right, up next, the senior Obama aide who admitted the administration duped America to sell the Iran deal was a no-show today at a House hearing on the subject. Why the White House wouldn't allow Ben Rhodes to testify. That's ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BOLLING: President Obama's senior aide, Ben Rhodes admitted to The New York Times the administration manipulated the press to sell its Iran deal to the public. He wouldn't show up for a House investigation today on the subject. But he did deliver a defiant defense at an event earlier in Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEN RHODES, WHITE HOUSE ADVISOR: I will not Monday-morning-quarterback every article that I've been a party to. When things like this happen, that's a part of what happens in Washington. The people who know me know what I care about and know how I approach issues and know what motivates me in this job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: A little bit of babble there. The chairman of the oversight committee, Congressman Jason Chaffetz, blasted Rhodes earlier for his hearing no-show.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JASON CHAFFETZ (R), UTAH: You have plenty of time, Mr. Rhodes, to go out and talk to all of the media friends and talk to the echo chamber that you brag about in "The New York Times," but when it comes time to actually answer hard questions under oath, you decide not to do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: So why wasn't the deputy national security adviser there? In a letter to the committee, the White House gave an executive privilege- related claim that Rhodes's appearance would, quote, "threaten the independence and autonomy of the president," after it said last week that executive privilege wouldn't be a factor.
When questioned about the 180, press secretary Josh Earnest played the semantics game. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: That word does not appear in the letter. Executive privilege applies specifically to situations when the president of the United States acts to protect information that is compelled by Congress. This was a specific request for testimony, on a voluntary basis. The principle is different.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: You know, I really don't care what Ben Rhodes and Josh Earnest are saying. The guy admitted that he fabricated some facts to sell this deal to the American public.
GUTFELD: Big facts. Big facts.
BOLLING: So here's my question, Juan: Do we get unfettered access to the Iranian nuclear sites? Are we turning over $3 billion, as John Kerry says, to the Iranians, or is it the full $100 billion that we're holding to the Iranians? We don't even know, do we?
WILLIAMS: Of course we know, but it's interesting to me. You've gone away from Ben Rhodes to attacking the deal, and I guess that's what you're really trying to do here.
BOLLING: No, no, no. Because the deal was sold with the specifics.
WILLIAMS: The deal -- look, his sin -- and he is guilty of this -- he was spinning to suggest that we were negotiating not with the hardliners, but once you had some more moderate Iranians come to office. And that was the suggestion. We reached a point where we can negotiate with the Iranians and trust the deal. And so that's what he was pushing. And I think factually, it was off.
Now I heard today Susan Rice, the national security adviser, and Ben Rhodes saying, "No, everything we said is truthful and factual." I would have questions there. But it's not what you're saying. You're...
BOLLING: It's like walking into a car dealership and saying, "I won't deal about the options on the car or..."
GUTFELD: I have a car metaphor.
BOLLING: You do?
GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.
GUTFELD: We have a car salesman...
GUILFOYLE: It's like Hertz Rent-a-car here.
GUTFELD: The car salesman sells you a lemon. He doesn't go and brag about it in the local paper. That's what Ben Rhodes did. He sold America a lemon, the Iran deal and then went to The New York Times and bragged about it. You know who this helps? Donald Trump.
Because in the debate, what is his calling card? Making deals. Rhodes just covered Hillary in a big crap ball. I mean, there's nothing -- his deal was the capitulation to maniacs. It was the opposite of a deal. She now has to answer to this deal in the presidential debate to Donald Trump, who wrote a book called "The Art of the Deal."
GUILFOYLE: Does that come in a pants suit?
BOLLING: Can your car metaphor top his car metaphor?
PERINO: I wrote, "Sold a lemon. Instead of lemonade, we get an accelerated nuclear weapon in Iranian hands."
GUILFOYLE: Nice.
PERINO: Was that better?
GUTFELD: I don't know.
PERINO: I liked it, because it's on this paper.
Here's the thing about Ben Rhodes. So the damage is done, like he didn't have to go testify. I know the reporter that wrote the article then tried to write another article saying, "Oh, no, like, I actually really respect Ben Rhodes." I mean, OK, whatever.
The damage is done. I think it does help Donald Trump or other candidates. But the troubling thing is, I think, on the substance of it. I understand why the White House wouldn't send Ben Rhodes to go and testify. I understand why Chaffetz would have the hearing. It's a little bit of a stunt.
But the truth is we now have a deal with Iran. And the other story that happened out of there today is Congressman Forbes saying that, when we all learn the details of what happened to our soldiers who are captured -- held captive there for -- how long? -- whatever, 24 hours, 36 hours, that we will be shocked. And this is not the kind of people that are moderating.
WILLIAMS: Let me just say before that, again, all of this is true. But it's not about Ben Rhodes. And that's what -- I mean, I think that's what Chaffetz is saying.
BOLLING: We're moving on from Ben Rhodes.
WILLIAMS: But Ben Rhodes and Chaffetz are the story of the day. And I think it's very interesting. I mean, Ben Rhodes -- by the way, Ben Rhodes's example was I had to do this, because there's no way to have reasoned sober debate on the issue.
BOLLING: Let's be very...
WILLIAMS: With the very polarized Republican Party.
BOLLING: We've got a deal that we don't even know what the details are of the deal. Can't Congress come back and say, "You know what? We're going to push back on any deal you just cut with them, and we want those sanctions put back on the Iranians, because everything you sold us, the whole bill of goods you sold us is B.S."
GUILFOYLE: They can try and say it, but in terms of undoing any of that is going to be up to a new administration. If they come in, Hillary is certainly not going to, you know, liquid paper the deal.
But this just shows the abhorrent duplicity, the lack of transparency on the part of this administration, and we saw this before. This isn't the first time we've been sold this bill of goods. What about with Obamacare? The same level of making fools of the American people. Mocking, bragging about it, saying that, "Oh, you know, we told them this, but we knew that wasn't the truth." Even the president of the United States saying you can keep your insurance. You can -- your premiums are going to go -- the same type of thing. It's just deception all the way around.
And it does help somebody like a Republican or Donald Trump to go forward to say, "Do you want more of this? Or do you want someone who's competent and is actually going to get stuff done and not sell us out to our enemies?"
BOLLING: Got you. All right.
Ahead, flight-mares at America's airports. Lines to get through security up to three hours long, passengers missing flights. Will the TSA fix this disaster before the height of the summer travel season?
And before we go, it's election day. We've got another midnight show to break down the results, so catch a special extra live hour of "The Five" tonight. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WILLIAMS: If you're taking a flight any time soon, make sure to leave very early. Give yourself plenty of time to get through security, because some people are waiting in lines up to three hours long, many missing their flights because there aren't enough screeners any more to deal with a 15 percent increase in passengers volume since 2013. Travelers are not happy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was loops so long that they had to cut the line and take half of the line to another entry gate.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: During a really long security line, I'm just wondering if I'm going make that plane.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think people are missing their flights not realizing how long the lines are.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: To keep tempers from boiling over, some airports are turning to musical performers, even clowns and some miniature therapy horses to entertain passengers during the long wait.
PERINO: Oh, look, Greg.
WILLIAMS: So Gregory, you're getting on a plane tomorrow?
GUTFELD: Yes. Where I come from, miniature horses are normal horses.
GUILFOYLE: Like unicorns.
GUTFELD: This is, like, the worst idea that you could possibly -- face -- do they have face painting? Are they going to have jugglers? People are angry.
By the way, this story kind of happens every year. This is based on the fact that TSA wanted it to be visual. They knew that there were budget cuts, and there were extra travelers. They were telling people to photograph the long lines, because this was basically saying, "Look, this isn't fair."
But give us backrubs. Don't give us face painting and clowns. Give us snacks and booze, and we'll be OK.
WILLIAMS: All right, Dana, is this actually a budget play by TSA? Because what they say is there's been a 15 percent increase in travel volume. But the Congress has cut their budget by 10 percent.
PERINO: I think that the word is they don't have resources. I read today that they're trying to bring on 768 more TSA agents. I don't know why that specific number is going to help solve the problem.
We ask TSA to do a really tough job. They have to screen all these passengers. There's a ton of bags. Nobody wants to check their bags, so there's calls for maybe then for...
GUTFELD: That's true. That's what it is.
PERINO: ... the airlines to not charge those fees.
But the clowns and the horses, and it's not going to make me any happier. I travel a lot. I do have TSA pre-check, and that solves some problems. But now it's happening, is people who don't have that are being sent into the pre-check line. So basically, the benefit of being in pre-check is moot.
WILLIAMS: Let's not have that.
PERINO: No, let's not.
WILLIAMS: I don't want that. Don't do that. But Eric, you know what I was struck by, is you have 450 people on American Airlines out of Chicago O'Hare missing their flight. You can't do business like that.
So the airlines now -- I come to you as my capitalist friend. The airlines now are saying, "We'll hire private people to check the bags." But of course, how can you approve of private people checking, and what happens if a terrorist incident happens and it's, "Oh, it's one of those private people"?
BOLLING: I don't think that's the answer. I think the answer is in what's going on with even fast food. You have to automate. You have to get more of the x-ray machines. You have to get people so that it's less human intensive. Get people through the lines, get the X-rays going faster.
And by the way, incentivize the few people that you would need. You can cut -- instead of hiring 768 more. You can lay off, probably, 25 percent of the staff and have a much more efficient line.
WILLIAMS: Really?
BOLLING: Use more X-rays.
WILLIAMS: Wait a minute. Don't we want the jobs?
But Kimberly, speaking of incentivize...
GUILFOYLE: Yes.
WILLIAMS: ... one of the suggestions is get more dogs. And have more dogs sniffing people.
PERINO: I'm for that.
WILLIAMS: You're for that, Dana?
GUTFELD: I'm not. It depends what they're sniffing.
GUILFOYLE: I know.
GUTFELD: If it's bombs, yes. If it's other things...
WILLIAMS: You mean your drugs? Oh, forget it.
GUILFOYLE: Like his medication? Fly with him with the broken foot. With the sock off, with the Xanax, with the boot -- I mean, it's unbelievable. It's like less than zero.
WILLIAMS: Are you willing to get to the airport three hours early?
GUILFOYLE: No.
WILLIAMS: Really?
GUILFOYLE: Listen, no. I mean, three hours? To Europe.
PERINO: I think that's a huge economic cost to the country. And to people's time with their family. I think the cost of having to get to the airport three hours early, it's not necessarily.
GUILFOYLE: They should do their jobs better.
PERINO: Do things right.
GUTFELD: They're saying they want people in Chicago to arrive three hours earlier, because they believe it's safer than being on the streets of Chicago. It's all a strategy...
WILLIAMS: That's it.
GUTFELD: ... to keep people from being shot.
WILLIAMS: That could be. Could be.
GUILFOYLE: Just ask Rahm Emanuel. Yes.
WILLIAMS: All right. Ahead, Dana is actually heading out to Silicon Valley tomorrow for a meeting at Facebook about alleged political bias at the social network. Now some of our viewers have been writing in with suggested questions for Ms. Perino. Here's what they want her to ask Mark Zuckerberg, and you're going to hear it right now. Next on "The Five."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PERINO: As we've reported, Facebook is holding a meeting with a small group of conservatives tomorrow to discuss accusations that it has been suppressing conservative news in its trending feed. I'm going to be there, and I'm headed out to California in the morning.
So we wanted to see what some of you are -- Gutfeld.
GUTFELD: I'm sorry.
PERINO: What you want to ask CEO Mark Zuckerberg, if you had the opportunity. And we got some suggestions on our Facebook page.
Here's one from Dougie (ph): "Why are liberals so intolerant of opinions that differ from their own? They claim conservatives are intolerant, but are much more so that way."
Deb P. asks, "Does he ever worry that an overreaching government could take over his business?"
And from Charles Z., "Can I have a million dollars? It will go to a good cause."
I like that last one.
Gutfeld, do you have a suggestion for me?
GUTFELD: One, I -- I fear that we're making too much of this for his benefit. You should treat it like any other lunch. It bothers me that everybody has to fly out and see him. Like he's Howard Hughes or something. He's just a guy who created a network that wastes people's lives.
But I thought if you're going out there, he's always wearing hoodies. So I thought a hoody with my face on it. So he can wear that one. And I'll be on his back.
PERINO: I thought you were going to tell me to wear this.
GUTFELD: You could wear it if you want.
PERINO: It would be interesting.
GUTFELD: You could swim in that.
GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.
GUTFELD: No. If you fly out there, he better be in a jacket and tie, right?
WILLIAMS: Yes, well...
GUTFELD: Come on.
BOLLING: Good luck with that.
PERINO: I don't think -- does he own one?
GUILFOYLE: She's going to keep that.
GUTFELD: He's a billionaire.
GUILFOYLE: When you wear a guy's sweater, you know, like in second grade, then it means, like, you're going steady.
PERINO: Would you ask him anything in particular? Is there anything -- I asked on the Twitter a couple of different times and on Facebook what people thought about this news trends and the suppression of it. And I have to say, people are really mad at Facebook for a lot of reasons. But none of them seem to have to do with this news trends, which is the issue.
WILLIAMS: Why are they so mad?
PERINO: They're mad about all sorts of things, about Facebook in China and about their community standards. But the news trends issue didn't seem to be rising to the top.
WILLIAMS: That's interesting, because I think China is real censorship. And they should be mad at Facebook about playing ball with China.
I mean, the question is conservatives are very sensitive to the idea that they are being shut out of this conversation. And I think there's reason for them, therefore, to say, "Hey, Mr. Zuckerberg, do you intentionally" -- because that was what the initial report was, that Zuckerberg has people who intentionally suppress conservative news. I guess you just have to ask, "How is it done? And is there any -- you say there's no evidence of it. Show us."
BOLLING: What you can do and what I think they did do, and they're being - - the way I understand it, they're being accused of, they have a news site. And they bump up the stories that they found that may not have been the highest or the most volume. Push them up, like Black Lives Matter, push those up to the top. Once people started reading Black Lives Matter on the news site, it trended because people were following it up.
PERINO: Right. They were pushing it.
BOLLING: And sending that article from me to Juan to Kimberly, et cetera, and it would start trending that way. And if they could just -- I don't know...
PERINO: Solve that.
BOLLING: ... figure out a way to be more fair and equitable on the way they put their -- the way -- the hierarchy of their news.
WILLIAMS: What about this argument among conservatives -- I'm so curious about it -- that it's anti-Trump conservative being sent out.
PERINO: I think that that was fairly tamped down. I don't know the entire list that's going, but Barry Bennett, who is on the Trump campaign team. He's going to be there.
K.G., any thoughts?
GUILFOYLE: I started opening my mouth, but this is what I do now. OK.
I would ask him for an offer of proof. If you claim that you found no bias, let us see it. How did you determine this? And go through the procedures that he used to make this determination, that he declared to the world that, in fact, that they don't engage in bias.
So show us. Show us so that we can go back and tell the world that, in fact, what you've done, the research you've done, the investigation is compelling and competent.
PERINO: All right. I'm going to see if I can fit this -- hoody? But it does have your face on the back.
All right. "One More Thing" is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUILFOYLE: It's time now for "One More Thing" -- Juan.
WILLIAMS: Oh, you know, I love a hero. Actually, a baseball hero, and during the fourth inning of the Phillies game Monday night, shortstop Freddy Galvis hit a ball into the stands. The ball was heading towards a woman who locked absolutely frozen with fear. She began to cover her face, but then her husband, her husband reached out coolly and snatched the ball out of the air. A round of applause for that act of chivalry. And then look at her reaction.
GUILFOYLE: Aww.
GUTFELD: Aww.
GUILFOYLE: That's sweet.
PERINO: That's why I don't go.
GUTFELD: In Philadelphia.
PERINO: I'm terrified of that.
Mine is real quick. I'm sort of headed out to that Facebook thing. And one of the questions about the -- who was invited, the conservatives, who was a conservative, what is it? I actually wrote about that in "The Good News Is." And I took the excerpt from that and posted it at FOXNews.com so you can read at least about my conversion, my journey, how I ended up as a conservative.
There you have it. That's all I had.
GUILFOYLE: Fantastic. And good luck tomorrow. You're representing us all.
PERINO: Greg rolls his eyes any more, they're going to end up in Kentucky.
GUILFOYLE: Nice one.
All right. So I just want to bring a little attention to a group that I think is really important doing something incredible, fighting to find a cure for cancer. And they are called the Castaways Against Cancer.
And what they do is, every summer since 1999, they've made a trip from Miami to Key West, raising thousands of dollars for the American Cancer Society. Its founder, Steve O'Brien, was motivated to start this group after losing his mother to cancer.
And they're going to be making their 17th annual trip on June 11. So we wish them the best of luck for this very worthy cause. And for more information on it, you can check out my Facebook page.
And thank you to Judge Alex, who appears on FOX for putting me in touch with them.
All right -- Greg.
GUTFELD: It is time for this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: I hate these people!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: You know, there's these things in New York called bodegas, It's like a 7-Eleven owned privately. You know, what drives me crazy is when you go there and you get change, you usually go to the same one every day, and the dude gives you money that is not American currency.
So you walk out, but you don't check. You get change, and you get home. And you see this, and you're trying to figure out what it is. I don't know what it is. I'm sure it's a wonderful currency. But dude, I see you every single day. Don't you think I'm going to come back and say, "I don't know what this is"?
GUILFOYLE: OK. Well, you just said you hated him, so get ready for some spit. Just saying.
GUTFELD: Exactly. He's actually a nice guy. I don't think he watches "The Five."
GUILFOYLE: I'll be sending it to him.
All right. Go ahead. Eric.
BOLLING: This isn't going to take long. I have, like, 50 seconds. But I'm trying to figure out what's -- so I haven't been on Snapchat for a really long time. Because something happened. I can't add any more people on Snapchat. They hit my limit.
PERINO: Maxed out?
BOLLING: Maxed out. But why would Snapchat have a limit?
PERINO: Doesn't make sense.
BOLLING: I love this app, but...
PERINO: There needs to be a meeting.
BOLLING: ... there are so many glitches on this.
PERINO: You've been invited to a meeting.
Because you're a conservative. Oppression by Snapchat.
BOLLING: You can't continue to add new followers on Snapchat. Come on, Snapchat. Get with it.
WILLIAMS: Wait. How many -- how many do you have?
GUILFOYLE: Translation: Bolling is very, very, very popular.
BOLLING: The translation is fix the app, because I love the app.
WILLIAMS: You have 25,000?
GUILFOYLE: All right. Big election...
BOLLING: But...
GUILFOYLE: OK. That's it for us. A reminder: we'll see you back here at midnight with our election analysis tonight. "Special Report" is next. Keep it on Fox.
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