Karl Rove: Latest Trump statement 'too little, too late'

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Karl Rove: Latest Trump statement 'too little, too late'

'The Story' panel responds to president's admission that new administration will take power Jan. 20

This is a rush transcript from "The Story with Martha MacCallum" January 7, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Thank you very much, Bret. Good evening,
everybody. I'm Martha MacCallum in New York. And this is The Story. What
happened yesterday at the United States Capitol has clearly touched a deep
nerve in the soul of this country. The palpable anger and the
disappointment felt today by nearly every American is something that we all
need to pay close attention to.

We are deeply unsettled at home and exposed to threats from abroad as we
struggle to stay strong 13 days from the transition of power to the White
House. Now, those who breached the Capitol are being pursued right now by
the FBI. There are universal calls for them to be arrested and prosecuted
to the fullest extent of the law tonight.

Ashli Babbitt was among them. Babbitt was killed by a Capitol police
officer during the riot inside the Capitol halls, as the group that she was
in tried to break down the door to the House floor. That was wrong,
clearly. But we want to look back at Ashli for a moment here.

She was an Air Force veteran. She served multiple Middle East tours. She
and her husband owned a pool service and supply company in San Diego. And
according to reports, she was a follower of radical conservative causes,
including QAnon on her social media.

Her brother-in-law said this today, Ashli was extremely passionate about
what she believed in. She loved this country and she felt honored to have
served in our armed forces. So, there were countless others out there whose
passion did not drive them to extremes, but it did drive them to leave
their homes and to gather on the National Mall.

Millions more stopped their day yesterday to watch all of them on TV and
think about why they were standing there. So, many of these folks served
their country or their family members who do. They talk openly about their
belief in the Constitution, freedom of speech and the right to bear arms.
They want to bring jobs back that went to China. They want those jobs to
come back to their hometowns. They want their churches and their businesses
open. They liked that President Trump was an outsider to D.C. They felt
like outsiders too.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's unbelievable what is happening in our nation. And
we are not seeing these. You see a million people here. We're here. We're
fed up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're out here fighting for everybody who doesn't care.
We're supposed to be the racists and the bad people. We're fighting for
them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Social media stopping our voice and our freedom and
cutting us off.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They think we're stupid. They think we're going to take
it. We're not going to take it. It isn't going to happen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These guys have lost office that are not standing up
for us. It isn't President Trump. It's the American people, honey. And
these guys are not standing up for us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Most of them are just asking for their voices not to be silenced
in the political process. And some in the media were happy to pour salt in
those wounds.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And they're going to go back to the Olive Garden and to
the Holiday Inn that they're staying out in the Garden Marriott and they're
going to have some drinks and they're going to talk about the great day
that they had in Washington and they really did something and stand up for
something and they stood up for nothing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: We're going to talk about all of this. The president was silent
today, no Twitter, no Facebook, no public address. But we do expect, we are
hearing moments ago, actually, that the president will speak shortly and
that it will be a very strong statement coming from the White House. So, we
standby and we will play that for you, obviously, as soon as that comes
out.

So, the president-elect had an opportunity today to reach out and to heal
the entire nation. But instead, the 74 people, million people who voted for
President Trump, this is what they heard.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: They weren't
protesters, don't dare call them protesters. They were a riotous mob,
insurrectionist, domestic terrorists.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: We are going to hear from people tonight on all of this. Senator
Marco Rubio is here. But first up tonight, Peter Navarro, who served the
president since the 2016 election and is trade adviser in the White House.
Peter, good evening to you. And as I said, we're going to break as soon as
we get this message from the president. We're going to go to that.

PETER NAVARRO, WHITE HOUSE TRADE ADVISER: Absolutely.

MACCALLUM: But can you tell us anything about what that message is going to
be tonight? Do you know?

NAVARRO: No, I'm hearing in my personal capacity, Martha, and the message I
have, it's always - listen to the signal and ignore the noise. And
yesterday was an historic day. And several things can be true at the same
time, we saw the Congress certify the election. I think it's also true.
There's a high probability, the election was stolen.

Number three, I think Congress missed a historic opportunity to do its
constitutional duty to hear some of the grievances across the six
battleground states, Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania,
Wisconsin. We know based on thousands of pages of documents and there's
significant election irregularities there.

And the last thing that can be true is that violence has no place in
American political discourse. We've had too much of that over the last six
days.

MACCALLUM: So, let me break that down for a moment, because you say that
the election might be stolen. But when I read what you wrote and I listened
to the interviews that you did on it, what I'm hearing is something
slightly different than that. What I'm hearing is that a lot of what
happened prior to the election in legislation that was passed and in
lawsuits that were lost, there were, I think, 50 some lawsuits that were
led by marbleized across the country that the rules changed in this game in
a way that left Republicans in a bad position. And maybe they should have
done a better job at making sure that those rules couldn't be passed.

But the rules in most cases were legally changed. And I heard you say this
as well in an interview that you did earlier. So, then you have this idea
of we won in a landslide and it was stolen. And then you get all of these
people on the mall. And I want to say that we need to talk about protesters
and violent disrupters in different ways. And I want to make the point
tonight that most of these people out there are good people who had very -
they have very strong convictions about the country and the things that I
just mentioned moments ago.

The people who broke in and disrupted and vandalized the United States
Capitol are being stopped by the FBI, as they should be this evening. And
both sides, I think, feel strongly about that.

But is there a problem with talking about it being stolen and saying that
it was won in a landslide and did that lead to some of this emotion that
we've seen rather than being straight with people and saying, this is not
going to change on January 6th. What do you say to that, Peter?

NAVARRO: Let me unpack that. First of all, we had a historic opportunity
yesterday under the rules of the Constitution to take two hours per state
in both chambers, Senate and House, to hear some of the grievances. And if
you go from Arizona to Georgia across the battlegrounds, there's some
serious, serious problems there that raised significant issues of illegal
ballots.

It is true, Martha, that much of what the Democrats did was legal in terms
of changing laws, rules, guidance. But they did it in a way which was
designed to commit an illegal act, which was basically stuffed the ballot
box with absentee and mail-in-ballots, which is Jimmy Carter and James
Baker once said are the fastest way to fraud an election. They stuffed the
ballot box with those. At the same time, they did the political equivalent
of defunding the police.

MACCALLUM: We've been through this and we've put your report up on the
screens and we--

NAVARRO: That's fine.

MACCALLUM: But I want to talk about this emotion that's out here tonight,
because - and we're waiting to hear from the president moments from now.
But the fact is that Vice President Pence went out there and said, look,
this is not what we're going to do. He felt it was unconstitutional to take
that action yesterday. You're part of the White House staff. Were you there
today? Were you at the White House today?

NAVARRO: No, I'm working on my personal capacity trying to parse this
particular issue. And I did write two reports very well-documented. I spent
thousands - look through thousands of pages of testimony, documents. And it
is my professional analysis based on what I've seen on the chessboard, that
there's a high likelihood that this was a stolen election. And I think a
lot of the American people believe that.

If you look simply Martha at the margins across the states--

MACCALLUM: But I think Peter, I understand what you're saying, and I
appreciate the fact that you've looked into it and we've covered it very
extensively here as well, and some of it based on your research. But I
think that the problem is that we have this reaction and people who have
been led to believe that something was going to change when it wasn't. And
I think there's a lot of anger out there, frankly. And I think some of it
is directed from people who have been very staunch supporters of the
president, who feel like they were misled. Can you speak to that?

NAVARRO: Misled by who?

MACCALLUM: Misled by the idea that anything was going to change, that it
was actually going to flip the election. There were people who were saying
yesterday that they believe that that was going to happen yesterday, but
that wasn't going to happen yesterday. And I think there's - that needs to
be said.

NAVARRO: It could have happened yesterday. I thought Matt Gaetz, and
everybody yesterday was magnificent in speaking about what could have
happened in that chamber--

MACCALLUM: Well, the one person who had the ability to do that was Vice
President Pence and he looked at it very closely and believe that it could
not and made a stand in that regard for which he has been given credit in
some quarters. And I know the president was very unhappy. And I assume you
were, too. But, Peter, thank you. Do you want to make final comment?

NAVARRO: Well, it's not a question of emotion, Martha, it's simply that if
we don't have a belief in free and fair elections in this country, it's
going to be very difficult for us to move forward as a vibrant democracy on
that. And that's what we're grappling with. So, let's move forward to--

MACCALLUM: We've talked to Rand Paul about the things that need to change
at the state legislature level. But we also want to be very straight and
honest with people. And I understand the president has said today that the
transition will happen, and it will happen peacefully, which I think is a
very positive move. But I've got to leave it there.

NAVARRO: It was always going to.

MACCALLUM: OK, thank you. Thank you, Peter Navarro. Also joining me tonight
is Florida Senator Marco Rubio. Senator, thank you for being here this
evening. You had people protesting outside your home who were very upset
about all of this and wanted you to make a different decision about this.
So, what do you say about these individuals who clearly have - they're
patriotic, they've gathered on the Ellipse? Many of them deserve to be in
the same category as people who rightfully protested over the summer about
the things that they cared about. That's American.

Everyone is allowed to do this and protest. The people who burned
buildings, whether it was over the summer or whether it was storming into
the Capitol yesterday, which was one of the most horrific sights that any
of us have ever seen, deserve to be in a different category, do they not?

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL): Well, let me first unpack a few things here,
because there was a lot discussed in the previous interview. First and
foremost, there is no doubt that in this election there were things that
happened that we need to talk about as a country and deal with, OK. This
practice of states going to courts and friendly judges and changing the
laws so that they can get an advantage for Democrats and circumventing the
legislature. All that needs to be addressed to it. All that needs to be
addressed.

And if there was fraud, that's a crime. People should be put in jail and it
should be revealed. I would point out, it's hard to make a case for fraud
or be arguing out there for it when none of the president's lawsuits and
none of his lawyers have ever alleged fraud.

Fraud is a hard thing to prove. It's hard to do it in four weeks. But the
real crux of this is the changes in the law is absolutely. Was yesterday an
opportunity to discuss the need for those changes? It could have been until
thousands of people rushed into the Capitol. Five people are now dead. We
just got word moments ago that a Capitol police officer was among those who
have died as a result of what happened yesterday.

So, you have five people that are dead. And so, it's a little tough to have
that kind of historic opportunity when members of Congress are supposed to
be having that debate or hiding in a bunker or in a basement somewhere
while people are rampaging through the building and creating loss of life.

So, as far as what you said, all of those complaints about the elections
are absolutely legitimate. And millions of Americans have it. Millions of
Americans have it. And 99 percent of the people that went yesterday to
Washington, D.C., to protest, to have their voices heard did not barge into
the Capitol. But one percent of thousands of people is a lot of people. And
they can cause a lot of havoc and a lot of damage and it can embarrass the
country the way that they did.

And I want to make one more point. There were people that I know personally
who believed that not only could we have a debate tomorrow, and that's
where I take issue with a previous interview they had. A lot of people did
not come because they thought that we were just going to be able to make a
point and send a message. They believe that the outcome is going to change.
They believe that the vice president was going to discard votes. They
believe that somehow, we were going to get Nancy Pelosi's Democratic House
to vote for a single one of these challenges.

None of that was ever going to happen. And you know who admits it? The
people who filed the challenges in the Senate, the senators who filed it
said we know we're not going to win, but we're making this point. But
people were led to believe that these challenges would prevail and that -
when it didn't happen. Yes, a small group of people, but nonetheless a
significant group of people created a tremendous amount of damage.

And some of them, unfortunately, are adherents of a conspiracy theories.
Others got caught up in the moment and the result was a national
embarrassment. The Chinese are laughing at us tonight, laughing.

MACCALLUM: I mean, that raises another question before I let you go, and
that is the concerns about national security. And when you look at the
chaos that is happening right now and how distracted the nation is as we
stand 13 days from a transition of power, what concerns do you have about
that tonight?

RUBIO: Well, first of all, if you're a terrorist right now, you're sitting
out there watching this, you're saying to yourself, hey, it's not that hard
to get into the Capitol. Maybe that's not hard to get into the White House
or the Supreme Court building or somewhere else. That's the first. I think
the second is that we've known - we saw it the summer. We see it now. This
sort of things creates more of it from the same side or from the other
side.

And the third point that I'd make about it is, yes, the Iranians are
looking at this now and saying the Great Satan, which is what they call us,
look at them. They're in decline. Vladimir Putin's looking at this and
saying, America is in total chaos. The Chinese are laughing at us and
saying this is why democracy doesn't work. And you need a strong and firm
figure. And they think that we're weak and in decline.

And our enemies, if you're a terrorist or anybody else, you think Americans
are distracted, they're tied up in all this. Now is our time to do things.
They make a mistake, but they could think that. These are real things that
we need to be serious about. I think the one that I go back to is this
embarrassed our country all around the world, we've got third world tinpot
dictators lecturing us about government and making and mocking us. And
that's the part that really upsets me as much as anything else, of course,
other than the loss of life and the terrible images we saw yesterday.

MACCALLUM: Before I let you go quickly, this discussion of the 25th
Amendment, you have some members of Congress, Adam Kinzinger--

RUBIO: Such a waste of time.

MACCALLUM: Waste of time.

RUBIO: Look, I don't understand these guys. I saw Joe Biden's speech today.
It was an opportunity for him to sort of at this moment, the day after all
of that sort of calm things down. And instead, he goes off for 20 minutes
and talks about everything that happened last summer. And if this was black
protesters, the police sort of responded differently. The police, they
showed tremendous restraint yesterday. That's why potentially one of them
as we know now, is dead. Maybe that's why or whatever.

But the point being is that there was no need for that. You know what that
does? That makes everybody go up and go back to their corner. Everybody's
outraged by what happened yesterday. A lot of people are thinking to
themselves, maybe politics has gotten too hot right now. And then you come
out with a speech like that. And I don't think that does any good for
anybody. I'm really disappointed in Biden's speech today. I expected more
and better.

MACCALLUM: Senator Marco Rubio, thank you very much. Good to have you here
tonight, sir.

RUBIO: Thank you. Thank you.

MACCALLUM: So, we understand that President Trump's video has just been
released. We are going to bring you that. And as the senator mentioned,
reports tonight that a Capitol Hill officer has now died from injuries that
were sustained yesterday. We are going to have a breaking report as soon as
we get the president's video in all of that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: All right, as promised, we have just ingested this video from
President Trump. It was just released. Let's play it on the events of the
Capitol Hill. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I would like to begin by
addressing the heinous attack on the United States Capitol. Like all
Americans, I am outraged by the violence, lawlessness, and mayhem. I
immediately deployed the National Guard and federal law enforcement to
secure the building and expel the intruders. America is and must always be
a nation of law and order.

The demonstrators who infiltrated the Capitol have defiled the seat of
American democracy, to those who engaged in the acts of violence and
destruction, you do not represent our country. And to those who broke the
law, you will pay. We have just been through an intense election and
emotions are high. But now tempers must be cool, and calm restored.

We must get on with the business of America. My campaign vigorously pursued
every legal avenue to contest the election results. My only goal was to
ensure the integrity of the vote. In so doing, I was fighting to defend
American democracy. I continue to strongly believe that we must reform our
election laws to verify the identity and eligibility of all voters and to
ensure faith and confidence in all future elections.

Now, Congress has certified the results. A new administration will be
inaugurated on January 20th. My focus now turns to ensuring a smooth,
orderly, and seamless transition of power. This moment calls for healing
and reconciliation. 2020 has been a challenging time for our people. A
menacing pandemic has upended the lives of our citizens, isolated millions
in their homes, damaged our economy and claimed countless lives.

Defeating this pandemic and rebuilding the greatest economy on earth will
require all of us working together. It will require a renewed emphasis on
the civic values of patriotism, faith, charity, community, and family. We
must revitalize the sacred bonds of love and loyalty that bind us together
as one national family.

To the citizens of our country serving as your president has been the honor
of my lifetime and to all of my wonderful supporters, I know you are
disappointed, but I also want you to know that our incredible journey is
only just beginning. Thank you. God bless you. And God bless America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: All right, so that statement tonight from the President of the
United States, I needed to point out that that is the first time that we
have heard the president say that it is over, that he did not win the
election. He said we took every avenue possible to ensure the integrity of
the election. But he has now acknowledged that those avenues have closed
and that the transition is what is the most important thing right now. And
he says that he will work to ensure that peaceful transition to the next
president. The former vice president, Joe Biden, the president-elect. He
did not use - he did not say him by name, but he said that they would work
on the peaceful transition to the next presidency and that that would take
place on January 20th.

Acting Homeland Security Deputy Secretary Ken Cuccinelli joins me now. Good
to have you with us tonight, sir.

KEN CUCCINELLI, ACTING HOMELAND SECURITY DEPUTY SEC: Good to be with you.

MACCALLUM: This is the first time that we have heard the president
acknowledge that there will be a transition. Up until very recently, he
said that he believed that he could still be continuing and inaugurated on
January the 20th. What is your reaction to what the president has just said
tonight?

CUCCINELLI: Well, he didn't just make that point and say it's time to move
on and move to a transition. He also condemned yesterday's violence
yesterday. In the middle of it, he was urging people to stop being violent
and leave the Capitol and respect the police.

I was glad to hear an even stronger statement there as part of his video
statement. I think it was an excellent package. The whole thing appreciated
as a public safety person, seeing the condemnation of violence, pointing
out the people who committed that violence are going to pay. Those
investigations are going on right now and they're very active. FBI is
leading that, and they are very engaged. I think you can fully expect to
see success in that regard. It's just tragic that we have to do it. But you
also heard the president say, it's transition time.

The electors have been certified. The race is over. He made strenuous
efforts to win, but they fell short and he's ready to keep moving. And as a
member of the administration, I am ready to implement that. I have been -
we're preparing within our department for that for some time now. And it is
time to make the two-week transition after the electors are done and on to
the next president who will be President Biden.

MACCALLUM: No doubt and I think everyone wants to see that process happen
smoothly. It's a process that we revere as a country. I do think, though,
that there's going to be questions, obviously, about what we heard today
from the president and what we heard yesterday at that rally when he talked
about the fact that he had won the election in a landslide and that it had
been stolen from him and that he wanted Vice President Pence to do the
right thing and that he hoped he was going to do the right thing and not
side with rhinos on Capitol Hill and not do the right thing.

So, this is an extraordinarily different message that we're hearing from
him tonight from what we heard yesterday at that rally where there were, as
we keep pointing out, so many peaceful protesters. But also--

CUCCINELLI: Right.

MACCALLUM: Right after that, we saw this march to the Capitol and this
horrific scene that unfolded. What do you say about all that, sir?

CUCCINELLI: Well, first of all, let's jump to that horrific scene and
condemn it again, because, the Department of Homeland Security, we've been
protecting federal facilities and we've been protecting communities across
this country for virtually seven months of violence. And for most of that
time, there have been people in power in our society who haven't been
willing to condemn that violence.

In fact, the Speaker of the House was condemning police, you'll remember,
when she called them storm troopers instead of violent protesters. I'm
hoping, particularly with the president's video here, that one point of
unity that shouldn't be partisan is that we can all come together again and
agree that violence is unacceptable as a substitute for protest, that we
have debate, that we have elections, and that that's where the energy
should be directed. We can have protests. We're famous for that in this
country, all over the world, free protesting, but it has to be peaceful.

And we have said that consistently month-after-month. And frankly, so is
the president. There was a sudden shift when the center of gravity of
people being violent was right of center yesterday instead of the left of
center. We've seen for so many months. And it's sad that seems to be what
it took to get some of our friends and fellow Americans to join with us in
supporting the rule of law and public safety. But I hope they're back to
stay.

We're here still. Always have been. And we're committed to maintaining the
safety of the United States of America and the Department of Homeland
Security. And I should point out, Martha, in particular here in the next
two weeks, yesterday was a wakeup call. It went badly, but we have an
inauguration coming up. It will be conducted safely. It will be conducted
safely. The Secret Service will lead that effort and they will do so
successfully, as they always have in the past.

MACCALLUM: I think the whole world is going to be watching that for
reassurance that that we have a hardened perimeter that is absolutely
impenetrable in the United States of America, protecting all of these
buildings. And Deputy Secretary of Homeland Security Ken Cuccinelli, we
thank you for being here tonight. Thank you, sir.

CUCCINELLI: My pleasure. Good to be with you.

MACCALLUM: You too. So, as we mentioned, we have heard reports that a
Capitol Hill officer has died from injuries sustained during those
protests. White House Correspondent Kevin Corke has the latest on this
latest devastating report of loss of life yesterday. And new details on the
four other people who also lost their lives on Capitol Hill. Good evening,
Kevin.

KEVIN CORKE, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Evening, Martha. We continue to
chase confirmation on that story. I personally have calls out, as do a
number of my colleagues, trying to confirm what has been reported that a
U.S. Capitol police officer has died in the wake of yesterday's violence.
We can tell you that Fox has confirmed that the U.S. Capitol police chief
Steven Sund has announced his resignation after yesterday's violence. He
will leave his post on January the 16th.

Now that decision comes just the day after all the violence here that
claimed the life of Ashli Babbitt, a 14-year air force veteran. She served
four tours in the air force before she was killed yesterday. She lived in
San Diego prior to her death.

As you know the violence unfolded in dramatic fashion yesterday afternoon
after thousands of people left the ellipse and then walk over to the
capitol following a speech by the president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT CONTEE, CHIEF OF POLICE, WASHINGTON, D.C.: The Metropolitan Police
Department is handling the investigation of the U.S. Capitol police officer
involved shooting that occurred in the House lobby area. There were three
additional deaths that occurred which we believe all to be the results of
medical emergencies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORKE: Those deaths involving 50-year-old Benjamin Phillips of Raytown,
Pennsylvania, 55-year-old Kevin Greeson of Athens, Alabama, and 34-year-old
Roseanne Boylen of Kennesaw, Georgia.

Local authorities say the three died as a result of those medical
emergencies.

This is all happening by the way, as the city of Washington remains under a
public declaration of emergency which will last, Martha, at least two weeks
that will take us through the inauguration, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Kevin Corke on Capitol Hill again tonight, thank you, Kevin.
Good to have you here.

So still ahead, we have reaction from Karl Rove and Lisa Boothe to
President Trump's message of unity tonight. And next, a social media giant
silenced him. The New York Post's Sohrab Ahmari wants to know who put them
in charge of policing national discourse. He's up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: Facebook taking the most dramatic step to silence President
Trump and definitely banning him from the platform and their subsidiary
Instagram. CEO Mark Zuckerberg alleging President Trump, quote, "use our
platform to incite violent insurrection against the democratically elected
government."

Joining me now is Sohrab Ahmari, New York Post op-ed editor and author of
the upcoming book "The Unbroken Thread: Discovering the Wisdom of Tradition
in An Age of Chaos." And I think we need some of that wisdom of tradition
given what's going on?

Sohrab, good to have you with us this evening.

Your thoughts on the social media platforms which you've run up against
yourself with the Hunter Biden story at The New York Post now banning the
president.

SOHRAB AHMARI, OP-ED EDITOR, NEW YORK POST: Well thanks for having me,
Martha. Let me just very quickly express my shock and sadness that the
death of the capitol police officer. That was a disgrace that display
yesterday. That said --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: We understand that it has not -- we haven't confirmed it
independently, Sohrab, I just want to point that out, but we are seeing
these reports from other outlets as well. Of course, if it's true, everyone
shares that sentiment. So, thank you.

AHMARI: Yes, but as far as the social media platforms are concerned, look,
for good or ill, and he's been very irresponsible lately, but for good or
ill, 75 million Americans voted for President Trump. Before that, 63 some
million people in 2016. So, he is the commander-in-chief of the United
States. He's sovereign as it were.

And so, no one elected Mark Zuckerberg or Jack Dorsey to police our
national discourse. And especially the sense that you get where
increasingly private corporate actors can shut down even the speech of the
president of the United States, leader of the free world, however flawed he
may be, for both some really scary stuff because what's next? Who -
obviously, average Americans may be silenced, but it just suggests that no
one is free from this kind of censorship that can be very arbitrary, very
one-sided, and very divisive?

MACCALLUM: Yes, that's for sure. And we heard some of the people on the
mall talking about this is a big issue for them. They don't want to have
this enormous arm of dialogue in the United States which has an incredible
amount of power. Limiting them from saying what they want to say.

Here's a quote from Michelle Obama today. She says, "now is the time for
Silicon Valley companies to stop enabling this monstrous behavior, and go
even further than they have already by permanently banning this man from
their platforms and putting in place policies to prevent their technology
from being used by the nation's leaders to fuel insurrection."

Your thoughts?

AHMARI: Right. If you're worried about conspiracy theories, if you're
worried about extremism, this is exactly the wrong thing to do because the
sentiments, the frustration of the people won't go away. They will just be
channeled in every kind of darker places where they can voice themselves.

And so, this is the exact -- this is the move of insecure elite, a
confident elite would allow people -- would hear people's anguish and
respond to them with reason, with thoughts, with arguments, not this kind
of always showing the back of the hand. Whether it's anti-lockdown
protesters or whoever they may be. Always giving them the back of the hand
and telling them to shut up.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

AHMARI: That's just the recipe for more polarization and more conspiracy
theory.

MACCALLUM: I mean, I just keep thinking of, you know, the tweets this
summer of, you know, the funds that would bail out people who were tearing
down people's businesses. And I wonder why, you know, those would not have
also been blocked under the same thinking?

AHMARI: Yes, or, you know, frankly, the speech that President-elect Joe
Biden and Kamala Harris, the same as they just made today. You know, I as a
reporter, I could pick out things that there were just manifesting not
true. They reframed all of the summer as though it weren't a violent event.
What -- is that not going to get flagged?

Lots of representatives and members of media get away. And so, when people
constantly see that it's all on one side, it's a one-way ratchet --

MACCALLUM: Dangerous territory.

AHMARI: -- that's just going to lead us --

MACCALLUM: Yes.

AHMARI: -- into this dangerous territory. Yes.

MACCALLUM: Sohrab, thank you. Good to have you with us tonight, Sohrab
Ahmari.

So, Republican Josh Hawley and Ted Cruz now being called Senate
seditionists and facing calls to resign from members of the so-called squad
even through their objections to the Electoral College certification in no
way advocated for violence. Republican Congressman Dan Crenshaw is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: We just want to give you an update, this is from Chad Pergram
reporting on Capitol Hill. There had been a lot of conflicting reports on
the condition of Capitol Hill police officer tonight. According to Chad's
reporting, we are -- we can tell you that the officer has not died. He is
in difficult condition at a Washington, D.C., hospital. But that he has not
passed.

So, we will continue to keep you posted on that and we certainly pray for
him and for his family, and all affected in yesterday's terrifically
horrible incidents at the United States Capitol. We will keep you posted
with new developments there.

So, we want to bring this to you now as Republican senators who objected to
the Elected College count now face a fury of some on the left who are
making a dramatically linking them to violence.

Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez tweeted this. Quote, "Senator Cruz,
you must accept responsibility for how your craven self-serving actions
contributed to the death of four people yesterday and how you fund raised
off this riot. Both you and Senator Hawley must resign, if you do not, the
Senate should move for your expulsion," she says.

Republican Congressman Dan Crenshaw of Texas joins me now. Congressman,
always good to have you with us. Thanks for being here tonight.

REP. DAN CRENSHAW (R-TX): Hi, Martha.

MACCALLUM: So, that's just one. I mean, you've got Joaquin Castro, Beto
O'Rourke Representative Joe Moody, Talarico, all of these government
officials making very similar statements calling them seditionists and
saying there's blood on their hands essentially.

CRENSHAW: Yes. Let me be good as clear as possible here. So, Senator Cruz
and Hawley, I disagree with them in the fundamental way about the
constitutionality of this process on January 6th, the ability of Congress
to overturn any electoral votes, period.

But let's be very honest. Senator Cruz and Senator Hawley were not hyping
up January 6. They were not calling for people to fight industries, they
were not saying this as our last stand. That being said, many members of
Congress did do that. Many commentators did do that. Many in the media have
been doing that. For the last few weeks, constantly saying this is our time
to fight.

And let me tell you something very clearly. They've been lying to people.
They've been lying to millions. They've been lying that January 6th was
going to be this big solution for election integrity and never was it going
to be. I mean, two hours of debate, forces, two hours of debate, that was
just some time for some opportunistic politicians to get five minutes of
time on the floor.

It was never going to solve anything, and it was always unconstitutional.
You have to have these hard battles won at the state level. That's where
the hard work is done. That's how you solve the important question of
election integrity and they lied to people and they said go fight. Go fight
because everything is on the line. That's what they said.

And when people fought, they came to fight and then they fought capitol
police and now people are dead. And the same members of Congress who called
people to fight, well, they're nowhere to be found. Because it was all fun
and games to them. They never knew what a real fight was. Real fights are
scary. Bullets flying, that's scary. The glass breaking, that's really
scary.

They were nowhere to be found, they scattered. They've been talking about
the courage to stand up to this, the courage to fight for weeks and weeks
but when it came down to it, there was no courage. That's what really
happened, Martha, and that's what people need to know. They were lied to.
They were lied to about what January 6th was.

Election integrity is important, it has been important to me since the day
I entered Congress. But I know that I'm not going to lie to you, I'm going
to tell you where we actually have to do the hard work and we have to
change these laws at the state level because these laws are loose, they
didn't give people any confidence. People are getting ballots that don't
belong to them, there's no voter I.D., no signature verification. We hear
you. We hear you but we have to come together and work at the state level
and change these things.

MACCALLUM: I don't think it could be said any better than that. Congressman
Crenshaw, thank you very much. And I think we need a lot of that honesty
and straightforwardness right now in order to heal the country. And I thank
you for being here tonight. I can hear the emotion in your voice. I hear
you. That's all I can say. Thank you very much, Congressman. Good to have
you here tonight.

CRENSHAW: Thank you, Martha. Thanks for having me.

MACCALLUM: So, coming up, I'll speak to Karl Rove and Lisa Boothe, and
Jonathan Swan with reaction to the new message from President Trump
tonight. Very different than the message we heard yesterday. That is next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: To those who engaged in the acts of violence and destruction, you do
not represent our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: A new administration will be inaugurated on January 20th, my focus
now turns to ensuring a smooth, orderly, and seamless transition of power.
This moment calls for healing and reconciliation.

And to all of my wonderful supporters, I know you are disappointed, but I
also want you to know that our incredible journey is only just beginning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Here now with reaction to the new message tonight from President
Trump, Karl Rove, along with the fellow -- with fellow Fox News contributor
Lisa Boothe, and Jonathan Swan, national political reporter for Axios.

Good to have all of you with us tonight.

Karl, very different message tonight from the president than what we heard
yesterday when he came out to the Rose Garden, just a bit of what he said
there -- we had an election that was stolen from us, it was a landslide
election and everyone knows it, he said yesterday, especially the other
side, but you have to go home now. We have to have peace. We have to have
law and order. Your thoughts, sir?

KARL ROVE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Too little, too late. He said that we'd
exhaust -- he's exhausted every appeal to overturn the election after weeks
of peddling a bunch of nonsense theories including on Saturday when he told
the secretary of state of Georgia that 50,000 Georgians had shown up in the
polls and been turned away because somebody had already for them.

That's one out of every 20 voters that appeared on election day. He said we
need to have tempers cooled of the day after he gave an hour and 20-minute
long speech inciting tens of thousands of people to march to the capitol
and show strength, don't show weakness, he said.

He talked about reconciliation a day after he threatened his own vice
president unless he did an unconstitutional act. He said we are going to
have a smooth transition. Now 13 days before the next president takes
office and two and half -- two -- nearly two months after the election.

And he finally decried violence, 27 hours after people broke into our
capitol, broke through police lines, broke through barricades, and
attempted to take control of the House and Senate chambers. Yesterday all
he could do is muster a tweet and a video in which he called them special
people and said I love you.

No, Martha. Too little, too late. This will be a stain on Donald Trump
despite all of the good things he may have done as president, this is going
to be the stain that remains.

MACCALLUM: Lisa Boothe?

LISA BOOTHE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, look, I'm glad the president is
saying this, obviously he has run out of avenues to try to dispute this
election, it is not the outcome that many Trump supporters wanted but
unfortunately this is the outcome.

However, I will say you are not a conspiracy theorist to have concerns
about the election. We essentially changed the entire rules of the election
mid-election, change the way we voted as a country and one -- during one of
the most contentious elections in American history, of course that is going
to raise concerns.

You can look at New York's 22nd congressional district which is still has
not been called to this day because they are used to seeing a few thousand
absentee ballots and they saw 60,000 absentee ballots, and there were tons
of concerns with the way ballots were tabulated with the machines. The list
goes on.

So, it's not dangerous to have those concerns, but it is more prudent for
Republicans and for conservatives and Trump supporters to focus on the next
election and to ensure that we can have elections where both sides trust
the integrity of it and believe the results of the election. So, I think
that is the focus of where Trump supporters --

MACCALLUM: Yes.

BOOTHE: -- should turn and making sure that that changes and really moving
away from mail-in ballots.

MACCALLUM: You know, I just can't help but wonder, though, I think
everything that you said are things that we have, you know, talked about
and you make great points with regard to the future of elections, there's
no doubt about that.

But I can't help but wonder, Jonathan Swan, what yesterday would've looked
like if the president had said what we just heard tonight at that rally, if
he had said look, I hear you, I hear your concerns, we have exhausted all
avenues and now what I need for you to do is to continue to support me
because there's a future for everything you care about, but we need to
start this transition in a peaceful way.

What do you think -- would we be looking at a very different last 24 hours?

JONATHAN SWAN, POLITICAL REPORTER, AXIOS: Well, I'm not persuaded that
January 6th was probably the moment, you know, after he had already
summoned all of these people to Washington promising that this day had
great significance. I mean, I thought Congressman Crenshaw laid it out
pretty effectively.

MACCALLUM: He did.

SWAN: I mean, he had built up this expectation that they could overthrow
the results of the election, and in fact, it got to this absurd climax in
which he suggested based on ridiculous legal advice from Rudy Giuliani and
John Eastman that the vice president could unilaterally reject the results
of the election, there's not a single constitutional scholar -- Pence knew
that. And Pence stood up indeed.

So, yes. I mean, everyone that I talked to in the administration including
very close people who have been loyal to the president for a very long time
--

MACCALLUM: Yes.

SWAN: -- wish he had given this speech a while ago. He's given it today
which is a good thing and it's his concession and it's there and it's done
but, you know, I don't think it would've changed much yesterday because he
had already summoned all these people to the capitol building.

MACCALLUM: Yes. The machine was already -- was already -- the engine was
already revved up --

(CROSSTALK)

SWAN: The machine is already -- yes.

MACCALLUM: -- to a point where that's probably not going to be un-revved at
that point.

SWAN: Yes.

MACCALLUM: Karl, the Wall Street Journal coming out tonight, it says
President Trump should resign. The best outcome would be for him to resign
and to spare the United States another impeachment fight. Your reaction?

ROVE: Well, I think the Democrats are overreaching by saying impeachment
and I think that I break with my editors at the Wall Street Journal, I
think the best thing for him to do is for the president to recognize that
he has sullied his reputation and the best thing to do is to be normal, be
reticent, be cognizant of his responsibilities and be private and out of
the public sphere and let the next 13 days pass as quietly as possible.

He has -- this is a terrible moment for our country, he bears direct
responsibility for inciting that mob to go to the capitol. The violent
protesters bear the responsibility for undertaking the acts that they did -
- that they did, but he is the man who encouraged them to go up and show --
he said don't show weakness, show strength and they took him at his word.

MACCALLUM: Lisa, final thought.

BOOTHE: Well, I would say that I am sort of sick and tired of this
demonization of Trump supporters in this country. What happened yesterday
was unequivocally wrong there is no excuse for it, the individuals who
broke the law should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

However, we have seen for four years Trump supporters are racist,
xenophobic, sexist, the list goes on. We are talking about 75 million of
our fellow Americans who have been labeled as less than by half of the
country, and we will never ever come to a point of unity when people are
demonizing and labeling the other half in this way.

MACCALLUM: Yes. Thank you to you all. Thanks to Lisa Boothe, Karl Rove,
Jonathan Swan. Great to have all of you here tonight.

That is The Story of Thursday, January the 7th, 2021. But as always, The
Story continues, so we will be back here tomorrow night at 7. Be well,
everyone. We'll see you then.


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