This is a rush transcript from "The Five," October 2, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Kimberly Guilfoyle and this is "The Five." Our coverage continues now of the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history, new development on the investigation, plus stories of brave acts of heroism at the scene. Country music singer John Rich joins us in a few moments. He performed a short while before shots rang out. At least 58 people are dead. Over 500 injured. Here is the moment the shooting started.




GUILFOYLE: The gunman, 64-year-old Stephen Craig Paddock of Mesquite, Nevada, open fire on 22,000 people below from the 32 floor of the Mandalay Bay casino. SWAT teams used explosives to stormed the gunman's hotel room and found he had killed himself. President Trump spoke of the tragedy earlier today.


PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: We're joined together today in sadness, shock, and grief. It was an act of pure evil. To the families of the victims, we are praying for you. And we are here for you. And we ask God to help see you through this very dark period. Our unity cannot be shattered by evil. Our bonds cannot be broken by violence. We pray for the entire nation to find unity and peace, and we pray for the day when evil is banished and the innocent are safe from hatred and from fear.


GUILFOYLE: The president is scheduled to visit the Vegas strip on Wednesday. And joining us with the very latest is Fox's own Trace Gallagher with more. Trace?

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS: Kimberly, we're almost 16 hours now from the shooting, and we still do not know 64-year-old Stephen Paddock's religious affiliation, his political affiliation. His family says he wasn't heavily into either one of them, and we do not know his motivation, but we can tell you at this point in time, it was a significant effort, and there was significant planning that went into this shooting. Just consider that he was inside the Mandalay Bay hotel room where the shooting happened for the better part of four days, and during those four days, he brought up at least ten different weapons. We believe the number will go higher, but right now we're sticking with ten weapons brought up there. And now you've got security, you've got Las Vegas metro police, and the FBI scanning over surveillance video trying to figure out exactly how he snuck those weapons inside. And I want you to listen again very quickly now to some more nats of the shooting because I want to make a point after this. Play the gunfire again very quickly.




GALLAGHER: You listen there. You listen to the shooting, and the gunfire, and the rapid gunfire, and the screams of the people. We talked to experts all day and they said that sounds an awful lot like an automatic weapon. Well, Fox News has in fact confirmed that there was an AR-15 that was modified into a fully automatic weapon, which means it keeps firing as long as you are holding the trigger down. Thousands of rounds of ammunition. It takes a lot to get one of those weapons. It's one more detail that went into this. And then if you look at the windows themselves at the Mandalay Bay, we're talking about a two bedroom suite and you've got two different windows that face separate angles. He built different platforms. And then Stephen Paddock got up on those platforms and he was able at different angles to fire down on the crowd as many rounds as possible, as quickly as possible, which is why it was so deadly and so lethal.

Fifty eight, the death toll, they believe that will also rise. Over 500 people were injured in this. So far, there is no link to any terrorism. Again, no political affiliation, no religious affiliation. We should note that Stephen Paddock lived in Texas. He lived in central Florida. He lived in California. And he decided a couple of years ago to move out to Mesquite, Nevada, about 75 miles north of Las Vegas. He bought himself a two-bedroom house there. He was an avid gambler. And his dad, we learned, was a bank robber but he had no criminal record. All he had was a traffic ticket, and now we know that he's behind the worst mass shooting in U.S. history. How do you get from a traffic ticket to there is what everybody is trying to figure out now, Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Trace, thanks for that update. There was also some information that came out about the shooter's father, saying he was on the FBI's most wanted list for a period time for those bank robberies that you've mentioned. But we're going to take it around the table, and we have some follow-up questions for you, Trace. Dana?

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Well, I was curious about -- does he not have any, sort of, online presence? We typically tend to immediately go to like Facebook, or maybe twitter, or something to see if there's anything -- is it just a blank slate, nothing there?

GALLAGHER: Nothing beyond, Dana, the stuff that we pulled up this morning which showed that, you know, he'd lived in a few places and he managed some apartments. No real Facebook history to actually work with. We know that he managed some apartments down in Mesquite, Texas, and that he lived in California for a while. And he has family in Central Florida, and he got tired of the humidity in Central Florida so we decided to move here to Nevada. But as far as any kind of political rants, religious rants, there was nothing that we could find that was linked to him at all, which is surprising because you know and I know that within minutes after these types of shootings, as soon as we get the name, you can put it up on social media, you can run it against all these different data banks, and you come up with, in most cases, a fairly significant amount of information.

In this case, we came up with a traffic ticket, and came up with the fact that his dad was a bank robber. And beyond that, everyone is wondering where do you go? How do you get from Mesquite, a gambler, living with a woman, we don't know if they were in a relationship or if they were just roommates, but you're living with a woman out there, and suddenly you take the precise and meticulous time to plan something as horrendous as this with no track record of any kind of rants or violence. It really is baffling the FBI, the ATF, and the metro Las Vegas police.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Greg?

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Hey, Trace. You brought up the girlfriend and I'm curious about her online presence and where she is exactly? We keep being told she is out of the country, which is, you know, could be anywhere. But then you hear it might be the Philippines, and I start thinking about the Philippines. I start thinking about ISIS. It leads me -- I'm just wondering, who is this person and why we don't know more about her.

GALLAGHER: Well, we know her name is Marilou Danley, right? She's 62- years-old. And we heard the same things today. She could be in the Philippines. She is definitely out of the country. That's all police would confirm for us. They said because she is out of the country that she was in any way involved in the shooting. However, they said when she gets back in the country they will thoroughly question her because she might know a lot more than she's indicating right now. She is not a suspect in the shooting, but she is still a person of interest in the overall crime. She has a lot more depth in her personal social media footprint. She is on Facebook a lot. She called herself a happy grandma and a mom. And she loves her grandkids and she loves more than anything just traveling around and doing things.

But again, there's no religious or political affiliation tied to her Facebook page either. It's simply, hey, she talks to her sister-in-law, and her sister says she looks great for 62. And she says yeah, we got good genes. There is nothing to indicate that she's been talking to anybody on any black-market websites or anything aside from just family relationships on Facebook, and run on the mill stuff that you see any 62-year-old woman would have. Again, we're still trying to figure out if there's a relationship between Stephen Paddock and Marilou Danley, or if they were just roommates. But we know the reason her name came up, Greg, is because her debit card was found inside the hotel room, so he brought it in there for some reason.


JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: Hey, Trace. Could you put a finer point on the weapons and what we know about the weapons? You just broke some news to me. I hadn't known that it was confirmed that it was a converted AR-15 semiauto to a fully automatic weapon. How do we know that? And some of the other weapons that were found in the hotel room, how many were there? And what types of weapons were they? And did he use just the converted AR-15 to do the shooting, or did he use other weapons? Where do we stand with the tracing of whether these were legally purchased and where, and where does that stand?

GALLAGHER: Yeah. All good weapon, Jesse -- I mean, good questions, Jesse. We don't really know at this point in time. We just know about the AR-15. We know it was modified, which kind of explains the rapid fire. We know, that we were told at least -- at least 12 or 13 guns. We've heard as many as 20. We have sources telling us there were 16, 18, 20 guns in there. We haven't really specified exactly which guns they were. We know he use the automatic. We don't know the other he used, and we don't know the lineage of any of those weapons, where he got them. Did he buy them illegally? His brother only said, look, we think he's got a couple guns in his house. We always knew that. He's a hunter. Beyond that, the family didn't have any more information about the weapons. So very early when we're talking about tracking, tracing weapons, all we know is that there was, apparently, according to what we've -- what they have told Fox News, a fully automatic modified AR-15 was used in the shooting, Jesse.

GUILFOYLE: OK. Juan has a final question for you, Trace.

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Trace, I'm so interested in his background. So we know he worked for Lockheed Martin for a few years, I think as an accountant. And then, he does not go into the military. He never had any military background. Nonetheless, from what we have learned so far, he was able to not only obtain these weapons but then to, as you described to Jesse, to manipulate, fix them, so they became automatic, which raises in my mind some questions like, well, in Las Vegas, I think you don't even have to be registered to buy a gun or to possess a gun, no limits on concealed carry or open carry, but what about the hotel, the Mandalay Bay? Do they allow you to just bring in as many guns as possible? And do people who work at the hotel see that he had a tripod set up by the windows?

GALLAGHER: No, and there's -- we're up against the clock, Juan, but no. We're not saying that he modified the gun. We're saying the gun was modified. So I don't want to make the stretch that he actually did this himself because I have no idea what capacity he had as either a marksman or his gun ability. We just know that he was a hunter. That's about as far as it went. He was at one time an accountant, and he flew airplanes. He has a private pilot's license. He's registered to one or two aircraft. And his history with weapons, he was in the military. Where he got the ability and the sense to actually build these platforms so that he could shoot down and cause the most death and destruction is really one of those questions that we will learn in the coming hours and days, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Thanks, Trace.

GUILFOYLE: A lot of that information is on YouTube videos, how to, you know, covert it to fully automatic. OK, Trace, thank you so much. Country music star John Rich performed at the outdoor festival just a short while before the gunman opened fire. He joins us now from Los Angeles. John, thank you so much for being with us tonight and sharing what must have been just a horrific evening, and to have experienced that and the loss of life. If you can tell our viewers where you were when this massacre started.

JOHN RICH, COUNTRY MUSIC SINGRE: Well, you know, we played about 9 minutes to two hours before Jason Aldean, and so we have actually loaded up our bus. And there is a little country bar that I have in Las Vegas that I own, and we went over there as Big and Rich and cowboy to play a little after show set. So we were over there on stage there and got to tap on the shoulder that there was an active shooter. What they told us is that they thought there were multiple active shooters and didn't know where they were. And so we immediately stopped playing and got everybody away from the windows and try to secure the location.

I made a phone call back to a friend of mine who plays with Jason Aldean, and couldn't believe he actually answered the phone but he did, said they had just thrown him and a bunch of guys into pickup trucks and were, you know, burning rubber out of the parking lot trying to get them out of there. And that the bullets were literally flying through the tour buses, through the instruments on stage, through the rigging. He said he looked up at the back of the pickup and all he saw was bodies everywhere. It's unbelievable.

GUILFOYLE: How much time passed because you bring up such an important points. There's a lot of confusion with the hysteria. And so much gunfire going on where people were calling in, you know, shots fired at a number of different locations. How long was it until you're able to identify and you found out that in fact it was just at the Mandalay Bay where you had been.

RICH: It was probably 2:00 in the morning, Vegas time, when we got word that they had neutralized the shooter and that they didn't think there were any more. But I can tell you, like my partner Big Kenney, he stepped off our tour bus as the SWAT team was coming straight down the street, rifles aimed right at him. He throws his hands up and says, hey, guys, it's me. And they said get back on the bus. I mean, I've got to say, LAPD and all the first responders activated instantaneously on this deal. I mean, I watched it happen in real time. It was nothing short of impressive watching them move through that town like that.

GUILFOYLE: OK. We're going to take it around that table again. Thank you for being with us and Greg has a question.

GUTFELD: Hey, John. When you were in that bar, where there any law enforcement people there with you? When you heard the news, did you guys do anything because you're close to where things were happening?

RICH: Yeah. So in the bar that I have, we have a big emphasis on veterans and active-duty. I have a lot of police officers that come and hang out there. And so, I actually had a Minneapolis police officer, off-duty, was in my bar hanging out, and he came up to me and showed me his badge and he says I'm officer -- I forget his last name. But I'm an officer, and I am not armed for the first time ever. I can't believe it. Are you armed? I said yes, sir, I am armed. And I have my concealed weapons permit, and I said yes I am armed. He goes can I have your firearm so I can hold point on this front door? And so I handed over my firearm to him. Everybody got behind him. And for about two hours, without flinching, this guy kept a point on that front door just in case somebody came through.

GUILFOYLE: Wow. What an incredible story.

PERINO: That is a really amazing story. John, I wanted to ask you about - - the fact that these festivals have become so popular, especially for country music. I know they're not the only ones that do it. But country music singers to me are some of the most accessible to their fans. You personally put yourselves out there. You feel very close to them. And I wondered if you had talked to Jason Aldean or any of the other performers about how they're feeling tonight, and that personal heartbreak that they feel about what's happened.

RICH: Well, you're exactly right. You know, country music is really a unique genre I think because of the relationship between the singers and the fans. You know, we hang out with them. We talk to them. We'll go have fun with them. Our concerts are very interactive with our fans. I mean, I'm a country music fan. So I'm a fan of other singers. And we all know it's like a big family out there. There was one guy that I'm good friends with named DJ Silver. You go look him up. He's a great guy. And he plays with Jason Aldean. Man, this guy tells me that his 6-month-old son who I met before the show and got a picture with, his 6-month-old son and the nanny who was watching him were in the room next door to the shooter on the 32nd floor. Literally in the room next door. And he went for about three or four hours and didn't know where his son was. I mean, you look out and you see these country music fans. Let me tell you something. These people were coming to the show from Southern California, from Arizona, Nevada. They were from all over the place. About.


RICH: Yeah, Canada, too. During the Big and Rich show, every show we bring up veterans and active-duty on stage. And at one point we had all 22,000 people at that show with their iPhones up in the air and the bright light on facing the stage singing in unison God Bless America.


RICH: In unison. And I look at that and I go, there's no race in that. There's no politics in that. There's no religion in that. That's just America with one voice all singing a song about our country, celebrating the fact that we have the freedom to have these big outdoor music festivals and live our lives. That was literally going on about two hours before this shooting started.


WATTERS: Hey, John. After you're on the main stage and then you left to go to your bar to perform for some of your fans, everything went down at that point. You must have had people there in the bar that still knew people who were at the main event. How are they reacting knowing it was going down? I mean, that must have just been heartbreaking to watch and to experience.

RICH: You're exactly right because all the people that had come over to our bar to watch us play had just come from the concert. I remember this one lady in particular, she's Canadian, and she was just, I mean, uncontrollably weeping in the room because she could not contact her friends back at the show. And her husband came over to me and said John would you mind coming over and talking to my wife and try to calm her down? And so I said absolutely. So I'm over there with my arm around this Canadian lady, you know, try to calm her down and get the situation to try to be as calm as possible. But let me tell you, that is a stretch to try to be calm in that situation.


WILLIAMS: Hi, John. So what struck me was the fan experience because what we are hearing people today is that people thought, Oh, my gosh, it's just firecrackers or some kind of noise that's part of the show, and they were slow to understand. I think Jason Aldean had been on stage 20 minutes it said before this occurred. Had there been fireworks? Had there been any kind of show that would have had noise that might have confused the people who were there?

RICH: No, Juan. It hasn't been anything like that, but these shows are huge. I mean, they are really loud, really bright. There's a lot going on. And when you hear the rat-a-tat-tat-tat, you kind of see everybody pause for a minute and go, what am I hearing? Because, you know, you could maybe it is part of the show. Maybe its pyro technique or something is going on. But I think, you know, when you hear that level of gunfire you know that's a fully automatic weapon going off somewhere. And it's not surprising it took people a minute because you're talking about a really, really big powerful show going on at that point.

WILLIAMS: And do you think that it was easy to get out?

RICH: It was a pretty wide open space. I mean, it's this major open lot out there, and it's pretty easy to get out more than other places that we play. It would be easier than say perhaps a stadium, like a football stadium or something, because it was outdoors and pretty wide open. Thank goodness. But, I mean, that is so many people crammed into one place that, like I said, it's virtually impossible to stay calm in that situation.

PERINO: John, in the time we have remaining, I just want to point out that we've talked about country music fans, but also country music that you do a ton for all sorts of people. I know you're planning a big benefit that's to take place next month so that you can help hurricane victims. You're always doing things for veterans, for law enforcement, for people from all over. And so, hopefully you guys can feel the love from all of us back to you as well.

RICH: Absolutely. And I can tell you this, these guys do stuff like this to try to keep the rest of us from doing what we want to do with our lives, and that's not going to happen. And I would expect a really strong response out of all of country music as to what happened last night. You've got to pray for these folks too. You know, people say, our thoughts and prayers, you actually need to pray. You actually need to speak to the Lord and say please bring some comfort to these people because this is beyond the pale what has happened.

GUILFOYLE: Thank you for your time tonight. We certainly appreciate it. OK. Developments on the massacre straight ahead. Please stay with us.



UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: It sounded like machine guns. It sounded like more than one machine gun because it just didn't stop, like, 30 minutes.

UNINDENTIFIED MALE: Everyone who I thought, you know, who has passed on, they have an article of my clothing covering their eyes, covering part of their body.

UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: People without shoes running just to get away.

UNINDENTIFIED MALE: Started directing traffic. We have gunshot victims crossing the street, of course.

UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: It appears the bullets were coming from Mandalay Bay into the concert, and they were just dropping. The people were just dropping.

UNINDENTIFIED MALE: We're using the rails between the partitions in between. They're churning bodies with that as well.


PERINO: Following the tragedy in Vegas where a shooter opened fire on a outdoor concert, many are questioning if this is the new normal for all of us. We saw this in Manchester at that Ariana Grande concert back in May, an event meant to be fun and carefree that turned into a horrible tragedy. The question tonight, can we do anything to prevent these types of incidents? Joining us is law enforcement analyst and former Green Beret, Lieutenant Colonel Scott Mann. Thank you, sir, for being with us tonight. If you go to a large event in an urban center, you're a soft target. And there's lots of different ways to try to protect ourselves but, ultimately, if somebody wanted to do this from that far away, with that kind of weaponry, is there any way that we can further protect ourselves?

SCOTT MANN, LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I mean, first of all, I'm afraid the game has changed. I wish I wasn't right about this but I think I am. Is that, you know, what was once off limits and stuff that happened, you know, over there in other countries, other places, it's now here. And like Trace said, you know, the shooter clearly conducted a premeditated ambush. He was in that hotel for several days at a time. And as I look at it tactically, you know, he did all the things that you would do to construct a premeditated, devastating ambush. And I do believe in many ways that we're going to continue to see these kinds of attacks in public domains where we never saw them before. And I don't see it going away anytime soon.

PERINO: We're going to take it around the table here, we'll start with Jesse Watters.

WATTERS: Lieutenant Colonel, you say it's very premeditated tactically. He had no real military training from what we can tell so far, so how do you explain that? And number two, the elevation he had given such a tactical advantage to be able to shoot down, is this something where we need to start positioning either snipers or law enforcement officials on rooftops during big events so they can also have that kind of scope?

MANN: Well, Jesse, the first thing that I would say is that -- as this thing bears out and the dust clears, a lot more is going to reveal itself in the investigation. One of the rules we learn in combat is all of the first reports are almost always wrong. The things that we know over time, it just starts to add clarity to it, almost like you're walking toward a ridge line that's fuzzy and then it becomes more clear.

So a lot of this we're going to figure out as we go, to include motivations and things like that. But just looking at the indicators, looking at the amount of time he stayed in the hotel ahead of time, the two vantage points that he chose, putting himself up on a pedestal to shoot like that, it just tells me -- and today, you know, there's readily accessible information. I believe it was either Dana or Kimberly who said that you can find that stuff online pretty easily, right? But this guy certainly demonstrated a level of proficiency. I mean, over 50 killed, 500 wounded. I haven't seen a battle like that in Afghanistan that resulted in those kinds of U.S. casualties.

PERINO: Wow. Gutfeld?

GUTFELD: I want to focus on how the media reports on this and how that creates more of these kinds of incidents by, I don't know, whether it emboldens people or not. How do you feel the media does its job when it comes to these mass -- this is a terror attack, in my view, a mass shooting. Is there something that we are doing that makes this worse? Are we showing too much, are we showing too little?

MANN: Yeah. Greg, I think what's going to happen, we're going to look back one day. We're so close to history now, but I do think history is going to show that the 24-hour news cycle does have an impact on this kind of thing. And certainly, you know, violent extremist groups like ISIS, al Qaeda. And I believe even if this guy does turns out to be a lone wolf, you know, the fact that they can be on the ticker, right, so to speak, within a matter of seconds, they can reach around the world. It's not lost on them. I mean, look at how high media for ISIS, I mean, they get better and better at real-time, you know, horrorism that they put on YouTube and mobile devices. So, yeah, I do believe that the 24-hour news cycle does play a role on this. I think the thing we have to guard against more than anything else in the initial moment when this happen is speculation. And I know there's airtime we've got to fill and stuff like that. But right now we've got to let the dust cleared, let law enforcement do their job, and then we make recommendations and make moves. And we've got to make them together like John Rich said. We can't be politically divided on this.

PERINO: Good point. Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: You know, any suggestions for how to prevent something like this in the future, besides people educating themselves, you know, online. When you see that this man went through a tremendous amount of planning, at least as the facts suggest that we know it thus far. The room being ordered in advance, two shooting platforms being set up, making sure that housekeeping didn't go to the room for a number of days so that he could, you know, remain undetected. As we started gathering, still, a lot of forensic evidence involved -- cameras, you know, from all directions into the hotel.

But what do you do? Because it seems to me that the way this crowd was set up, the large volume, the panic that ensues when people are trying to escape. He's got that platform and an advantage, having a fully automatic weapon. To me, that's like a kill box. You're squared off; you're pinned in to do maximum casualty and damage.

MANN: Well, it clearly was, Kimberly. It was a kill box. That's exactly how he set it up. And I mean, to some degree, I think this is going to be our new reality in certain circumstances.

One of the things that I would say, though, I do believe that we're going to have to start looking hard at Israel and Colombia and other countries around the world who have learned to still thrive and live their lives, you know, in these kinds of things.

And like John said, we have to continue to live. We have to continue to move on. And you think about the number of folks today who were plugging bullet holes with their fingers, who were carrying wounded on improvised litters, who were giving comfort to dying strangers in their final moments. It's going to be everyday Americans that have to step up and step into the breach and deal with this kind of thing. Congress is not going to solve this problem. It's going to be us coming together as people and figuring out different ways to continue to thrive. That's just how it's going to have to go.

PERINO: Wow. Juan Williams.

WILLIAMS: So Colonel, you know, it's so curious to me in terms of what's allowed in the state of Nevada. Because I see here that license is not required to purchase or possess a rifle, shotgun, handgun and even a machine gun it says, not prohibited if registered.

So did it make a difference in terms of the laws there, that this event occurred in Nevada?

MANN: You know -- you know, Juan, I don't think it did. I mean, and again, you know, be careful of speculation here, because the investigation will bear it out. But with that number of weapons systems and being that overtly visible, I mean, just from a tactical perspective, I suspect he snuck those weapons in. You know, in suitcases and things like that and prepositioned them over a period of time.

And like Trey (ph) side, he was in there for several days. So a good amount of premeditated prepositioning occurred. I suspect it was done with cover and concealed carrying cases. And they were assembled in the room.

I don't think the laws that were in place there -- and again, look at Paris, a complex attack. London, complex attack. San Bernardino, where the laws were very stringent, complex attack. I don't think that was the reason for it.

PERINO: Lieutenant Colonel Mann, thank you so much for your expertise tonight. We appreciate it.

MANN: My pleasure. Thank you guys.

WATTERS: Police say the gunman responsible for the massacre in Las Vegas today used at least ten weapons to commit this atrocity. The subject of gun control quickly brought to the forefront again by some. Here's Tom Brokaw.


TOM BROKAW, FORMER NEWS ANCHOR: When we were listening to those rounds that were being fired, he was on full auto. That's supposed to be an illegal weapon for a civilian.

The enormous amount of weapons that are available out there to people for whatever reason, that they can walk into a store. They get a quick check and they can buy something. There's a modified military weapon of some kind. That's got to be a discussion that we're going to have. And the larger discussion is where are we at this stage in our lives in this civilized country that we are now so accustomed to hearing about mass shootings?


WATTERS: Hillary Clinton also wading into the debate, slamming the NRA on Twitter. Quote, "Our grief isn't enough. We can and must put politics aside, stand up to the NRA, and work together to try to stop this from happening again."

The White House says it's too soon for the president to comment on the subject.


JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Does he believe that he could bring something new to the gun debate that has, you know, I guess, locked in typical politics for so many years?

SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I think today is more, again, like I said, a day of reflection, a day of mourning, a day of gratefulness for those who were saved. And I think that there will be, certainly, time for that policy discussion to take place. But that's not the place that we're in at this moment. But certainly, I think that there's a time for that to take -- to happen.


WATTERS: So let's begin with Tom Brokaw, who I have a lot of respect for as a broadcast professional, but he's dead wrong. You cannot walk into a store and buy a machine gun anywhere in the country. So to come out with a solution without any facts, Gutfeld, I just think is irresponsible.

GUTFELD: Well, I think the argument that always comes up. The best thing you can do for your mental health, staff social networks, because you're going to run into the same faces, the familiar names who refuse to let a tragedy go by and speak their mind.

The problem is, the rage is almost always so general. Like nobody wants this to happen. So tell us exactly the specifics, the specific thing that needs to be done in this case that would've prevented that. Please do that. But don't just say, "Guns bad, Republicans bad. They are to blame."

Anyone on TV, the media, the film industry, entertainment can afford to rag on guns, because they live in safe places. They are in highly-guarded, secure work spaces.

We live in a bulletproof studio right now. We have cops everywhere. CNN is like that. MSNBC is like that. People that live in gated communities in Hollywood don't have the same problems people on farms have, so they don't understand this. The first inclination is to shout guns, guns, guns. Just be educated.

WATTERS: And the White House press corps shouting, "Guns, guns, guns" today, Dana. And Sarah Huckabee Sanders, very emotional at one point, and I thought handled it well...

PERINO: Definitely.

WATTERS: ... by saying today is not the day.

PERINO: Yes, she deflected it. I understand why they're asking, because it wasn't the media that had -- that made Hillary Clinton tweet that this morning.


PERINO: Or for other reporters to do it. I mean, they are reacting to the news that is happening and wanting to get reaction from the president's, like, biggest nemesis, Hillary Clinton.

But just look at why John Rich said in our first block. He's at the bar. They find out what's happening. They believe there's an active shooter. And an off-duty police officer from Minneapolis happens to go to him and say, "I don't have my weapon. Here's my badge. If you trust me, can I have your weapon to help protect these people?"

WATTERS: Interesting.

PERINO: Anybody in the media would've been grateful to that off-duty police officer and the fact that John Rich did have a legal, concealed carry weapons so that they could be protected in that moment.

WATTERS: And Hillary Clinton, as you mentioned, looking for the villain. Just on the heels of the tragedy, just a few hours afterwards, blaming the National Rifle Association. How do you feel about that? Seems a little too soon, Kimberly, to me, at least.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, I don't think it's appropriate. There are still people that are missing. There's family members trying to locate their loved ones. There are people fighting for their life that are critically injured, including one police officer who was off duty and who is in very serious condition right now.

And when you think about it, it's like, well, OK. Haven't we heard enough from you from exactly a moment? Have you not sold enough books? Do you need to politicize this today? Can you just stand down for a moment and not make these kind of comments?

Like, there's plenty of discussion to be had on gun control. And there has been, and there will continue to be going forward. Today is a day to be respectful and to mourn the loss of those who passed and those that are still fighting to live.

WATTERS: So when there's a terror attack, Juan, and the president of the United States says, "Well, this is why we need the travel ban," the left says "Oh, he's trying to politicize the tragedy."

But then when there's a mass shooting, Hillary comes out and says, "This is why we need gun control" and attacks the NRA. Isn't she doing that, politicizing the tragedy?

WILLIAMS: I don't think that's a fair analogy at all.


WILLIAMS: There's one situation where you're talking about banning a group of people, that the argument was on the basis of their faith, their religion, Jesse, not on the fact that they were people who are connected to terrorism.

WATTERS: Not according to the courts.

WILLIAMS: No, in fact, the courts said that you can't do it.

WATTERS: Let's get off the travel ban.

WILLIAMS: OK. Well, let's move back to guns. And I think it's really odd to me to hear repeated this idea, "Oh, you can't talk about this today. Too soon."

I mean, if it was a one-time event, I'd say, "Well, OK maybe." But what do you do when you've got Newtown, when you've got Virginia Tech, when you're got the congresswoman Gabby Giffords, when you've got the nightclub, when you've got San Bernardino, Fort Hood, and now this?

At some point you've got to say -- this is what Vice President Biden said today: "How long do we let gun violence tear families apart? Enough. Congress, the White House should act to save lives."

Chris Murphy, the congressman from Connecticut, he said this must stop. It's positively infuriating that people are so afraid of the gun industry. Get off your butt, he said, and do something.

GUTFELD: What's the specifics that they're offering?

WILLIAMS: Well, I think they're offering lots of specifics.

GUTFELD: For this particular -- you bring up an event and tell us how to solve the event.

However, I do agree with you, but let's come up -- if you can come up with a solution, we would agree with you. But there's no solution.

WILLIAMS: I think there is.

GUTFELD: That's why the argument goes away, because you never have a solution. You just have a complaint.

WILLIAMS: No, I think there are lots of solutions, and the question is how can we find common ground and stop screaming at each other and understand we all have a common, collective self-interest and not having these kind of mass attacks which have multiplied in the last few years.

WATTERS: OK, well, maybe we can continue to have a discussion and we can hear some specific solutions, because we haven't heard any yet.

Coming up, the selfless acts of humanity at the scene of today's deadly mass shooting. Today, flags at Capitol Hill and the White House were lowered to half-staff. We'll be right back.


GUTFELD: So when hell is unleashed, what happens after the chaos always tells an equally powerful story, one that must be told every day, because in our 24-hour news cycle, it seems so easy to forget. We remember the carnage but not what follows.

In Las Vegas, as bullets were flying, the police were on their feet and ran toward the shots, as always. One officer used his body to cover up a woman who was in the line of fire. She never got to thank him, but hopes to track him down:


GAIL DAVIS, SHOOTING EYEWITNESS: The officer actually covered me up to protect me for being shot, because I couldn't get out all the way. I wish I could find him. I'm going to try to find him and tell him thank you.


GUTFELD: They risked life and limb. It's good to remember. The SWAT Team likely saved countless lives, as well.

Meanwhile, a firefighter continued tending to victims after he was already shot. Other folks tended to the bleeding. Samaritans still at risk from a killer raining death from above stayed back to help the helpless anyway. Strangers with trucks turned them into civilian ambulances, giving over their vehicles without a thought:


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need your truck. We just need to get people to the hospital. OK?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, go ahead. Put them all in the back!


GUTFELD: Not a single hesitation.

Blood donors quickly lined up around the block. As senseless as the horror is, we always find an equal supply of selfless heroism, sense of duty and compassion. It's something to think about once again in these odd times.

The response to hurricanes, the outpouring of goods and services from the most giving country on earth, the quick reactions of the selfless strangers here -- all of this tells, again, a powerful story. That Americans are best when faced with the worst.

Juan, we see this all the time. It's just -- I always try to think about what I would do in situations like these, and I'm always impressed by the selfless heroism of just the average person.

WILLIAMS: There's reason to be impressed. I mean, it's -- I think selflessness, the willingness to give in moments of crisis is really moving. And to see it on display last night and to hear the stories to this day, it's just wonderful. And again, it's just a reminder that, you know, even in moments when you see what the president called pure evil, there are these moments of, you think there are angels on earth. And I love that moment when you saw the person in the truck, just give it up.

GUTFELD: Yes, you know, Dana, I was just -- I don't mean to be funny but this is another example of pickup trucks. Like we saw in the hurricane. Everybody who had a pickup truck was, like, a minor savior.

PERINO: That's right. That's why you should have one. If you can find a place to park it.


PERINO: In the city.


PERINO: It was interesting. We were talking to the lieutenant colonel about media coverage and how the shooters tend to think that they get all of this attention and that they maybe -- they think they're glorified and that's what they seek.

But it's actually the media attention about the beautiful humanity that happens after tragedies like these that is the most powerful. Like, they're nothing.


PERINO: They're evil, disgusting, and they are gone. And nobody misses, them and they're rotting in hell. In the meantime, we show over and over again, how, unfortunately, we have to do it; that's the sad thing, that we're put in this position. But really the lasting media impressions are these.

GUTFELD: I want to bring up, this is kind of a reverse reaction to the things that we see here, Kimberly. A vice president for CBS said that the Vegas victims, she says on Facebook, they didn't deserve sympathy because they're -- because country music fans often are Republican." She lost her job, Hayley Geftman-Gold, for this really stupid thing.

But it's like instincts. People go there instead of there. Instead of helping, they hurt.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, and I'm sure, you know, that she regrets that statement. And I know we've asked for a statement from her, so hopefully, we'll get some more light on what happened or, you know, what went down behind it.

I mean, in situations like this, the first and foremost thought that anyone should have is really to, you know, pray for the people that have lost loved ones. Can you imagine if it's one of your family members? Or somebody that you were still -- so many people were calling in, emailing and saying -- trying to locate someone, not even knowing, being separated from them during this incident. Whether or not they are alive, are they critically injured, or in some hospital. Some people were held back by the hotels. It was total chaos and pandemonium.

And when you look at the number of lives lost today, that should just be foremost on everyone's mind, about how we can love each other and get along better, seek to understand and improve a situation. On behalf of humanity, whether it is having a discussion about laws like this, or what brings somebody to commit a heinous crime like that, that's where the -- the focus and the thought should be.

GUTFELD: Jesse, what do you think about, I mean, these examples and whatever you want?

WATTERS: I think the American spirit always rises to the challenge when you he a tragedy like this.

However much blood is spilled, two times much blood is donated. However many people died, four times as many people are being saved in a hospital by doctors. Right now, friends helped friends to safety. People helped strangers to safety. And law enforcement was running towards the bullets.

So all those kneelers in the NFL out there, they need to recognize, when they are kneeling during the anthem, they're kneeling, and we're supposed to be honoring law enforcement, law enforcement that's trying to save lives, not take lives. So I hope next Sunday when the anthem is played, people do kneel out of respect to law enforcement.

Right now, a lot of stuff looks really small when people are making politics over San Juan. There was a congressman that was trying to impeach the president today. "SNL" called the president, I think, a cheap cracker. That has to stop. And people have to choose the side of good over evil. And because I think evil is always going to lose to good.

GUTFELD: All right. Up next, where there any warning signs? Reactions from the family of the gunmen who opened fire in Vegas today. Back in a moment.



ERIC PADDOCK, BROTHER OF SHOOTER: We're shocked, horrified, completely dumbfounded about.


PADDOCK: Nothing, not an avid gun guy at all. The fact that he had those kind of weapons is just -- where the hell do they get automatic weapons? He's not -- he has no military background, anything like that.

No religious affiliation, no political affiliation. No. He just hung out.



WILLIAMS: That was the brother of 64-year-old gunman Stephen Paddock, the retiree who committed the deadliest mass shooting in modern history last night in Las Vegas.

Kimberly, I'm struck. The brother says no military background, no religious, no political. I mean, the motive is a pure mystery. We're almost 24 hours after the shooting.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, well, that's why it's so important for us, you know, not to speculate about it but to let the authorities do a proper and thorough investigation. Everyone is still assembling all the facts, the forensics. There's a tremendous amount of information that needs to be put together and assembled, especially when you see a crime scene of that magnitude and size.

So many people have to be spoken to. Evidence collected from such a wide, large area; 22,000 people in attendance.

So perhaps this person didn't have a very prominent social media or digital presence or, you know, framework for them to glean some information, but there's got to still be phones. There's got to be interviews with neighbors, or people who know him. Or going back in a certain period of time, especially, given his age.

And, you know, I'm anxious and looking forward to getting that information and letting the authorities, you know, do their job and perhaps, hopefully, to find some answers for some of these lost loved ones and family members that are grieving to understand how this happened, why and how we can prevent it.

WILLIAMS: Jesse, the NRA has stopped putting out some ads that they had scheduled to run. They've got a bunch of ads that they were running in the Virginia race. What do you make of that?

WATTERS: I think that's a naturally sensitive move to make in light of the tragic shooting. And I would have made it if I was the head of the NRA, as well.

Someone said to me today when the story just broke, "I'm really glad that the shooter wasn't a minority." And I thought to myself, what does that have to do with it? It's not about the race of the shooter. It's about the motivation of the shooter.

And like Kimberly said, we don't know that motivation yet. And that's the key. And we're going to find out a lot within the next couple days. I'm not personally ready to rule out a terror angle. I'm just not. I know the federal officials have said no, but I think there's a lot more information out there.

I'm also willing to accept the fact, if it comes out there, that this guy might just be deranged, and he could have a personal issue. Could have flipped and could have gone nuts. His father was a criminal. Who knows? It could have been as simple as that. Either way, we don't know as much as we need to know before speculating.

WILLIAMS: But you know in this country if the shooter had been a minority, an immigrant, if it had been...

WATTERS: A Muslim.

WILLIAMS: Yes. Boy, people leap to such conclusions.

WATTERS: Everybody plays that game whenever there's a shooting.

WILLIAMS: Well, that's why...

WATTERS: The first thing you want to know is who's the person, what's the profile of the person? Race, sex, where are they from. Always happens. And we can't avoid it. But it's not the right thing. You've got to think about motivation. That's the key.

WILLIAMS: So Dana, when you hear that people like Hillary Clinton, like Gabby Giffords are saying this is a moment to have a conversation, what do you think?

PERINO: Well, I think it's reasonable, after -- after one of these incidents for people to say, "How can we prevent this from ever happening again." But we don't even know what happened. Sound familiar?

So that's why I think, like, waiting for just a moment to find out. Because what if it turned out that there were some sort of ISIS connection? And that takes the NRA piece off the table. So obviously, this is a huge tragedy. We will continue to have a gun control debate in this country, and there might be persuadable people. If they could show some specific ways that they think it could actually be prevented, maybe that could be brought to the voters and we could all decide.

WILLIAMS: By the way, Greg, when you want to have that discussion, is that a separate discussion from the kind of shootings we know and lament on the city streets every day? In terms of the mass shootings?

GUTFELD: If you are focusing solely on guns, then you have to -- you have to clump them together. Because there are more young men being killed in Chicago guns. So if you want to talk about gun violence, you're going to have to -- we're going to have to talk about that, as well.

I wanted -- you know, I talked to a couple of really smart people. Jennifer Hesterman brings up a really good point about all of these attacks are happening towards the end of an event. Whether it's Arianna Grande, the Bastille Day parade. You've got to know your -- she says you've got to know your exits and have a plan.

Because we don't -- we always think about it. We're always looking inside an event. We're not looking outside an event.

But there's an interesting thing. Yesterday Scott Adams did a video talking about how they were going to be no more outdoor events because of the advent of drones, the idea that you can attack from above. What this was was a drone attack. This was the first drone attack on an audience. Because you're above going down.

WILLIAMS: Let me say good-bye to the folks, because we're running out of time.

Our prayers and deepest condolences go out to the families of the victims killed in this horrific tragedy. We're also praying hard for all the victims injured, and there are so many of them in the tragedy. Stay with the Fox News Channel throughout the night for breaking developments on the massacre in Las Vegas. Coverage continues on "Special Report" right now.

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