Jason Rantz says some politicians, media are convinced that riots will be worth it if Trump loses in November

This is a rush transcript from "Tucker Carlson Tonight," July 27, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

TUCKER CARLSON, HOST: Good evening, and welcome to "Tucker Carlson Tonight." Happy Monday.

You can tell a lot about a society by what shocks its leaders. For generations, what shocked the people in charge of this country was political violence, hurting your neighbors for having different opinions. They were appalled by that and they were right to be.

Political violence isn't simply an assault on individual Americans, it's an attack on America itself. In this country, we govern by consent, not by force. People with guns don't make our laws, voters do.

You may have a Glock in your hand, but on Election Day, you have precisely as many votes as the little old lady who disagrees with you. That's our system. The weak are supposed to have as much power over the government as the strong, and that is the basis of our equality as Americans, something that we should cherish and protect.

Political violence immediately short circuits this. It ends democracy. Violence instead returns us to the most primitive of all systems, one in which might makes right. People who hurt others get to do exactly what they want. Everyone else has to obey them. There is no greater threat to civilization than this and we used to understand that because it's obvious.

But things have changed. The people who run this country are no longer shocked by political violence. They welcome it. They slyly encourage it. They are its beneficiaries.

They tell us the only real crimes are thought crimes. It's okay to set fires or smash strangers in the face with two by fours, so long as you are chanting the correct slogans. If you're on the right team, everything is allowed.

But if you dare to dissent from the orthodoxy, you will be swiftly punished. Go ahead and express the wrong opinion. Try it in a meeting, try it on Facebook, they will find you. You will lose your job, your reputation, possibly even your life.

The message they're sending you is very clear. Americans are not equal anymore. There are two standards in this country, one standard for them and a very different standard for you.

Over the weekend, we saw exactly what they will excuse from their own supporters. Armed mobs of Joe Biden voters torched, buildings, smashed cars, attacked police officers. They rioted. They hurt people, a lot of people -- and the media, watching closely lied about all of it. They pretended it didn't happen. They made excuses for it. They buried the truth in euphemism.

The liars of "The New York Times" described the riots as quote, "protests," as if the violence was justified or could be justified. Here's the truth about what happened. Here's what actually happened in Seattle over the weekend. Take a look.

[VIDEO CLIP PLAYS]

CARLSON: Protests? No, these were not protests. These were scenes from a war. The rioters threw rocks, bottles, wood, explosives at police. One explosion left an eight inch hole in a police precinct.

Because no lie is too absurd for CNN to tell, the network described violence against police as quote, "a demonstration against police violence." Got that? It's a perfect inversion of the truth worthy of 1984. Ignorance is strength. Freedom is slavery. War is peace.

They repeat it because they expect you to believe it and no doubt some do.

Meanwhile, Seattle Police Department gamely tried to push back by releasing actual body cam footage of the violence. It is not clear how many people saw it. So, we're going to show some of you -- we're going to show some of it to you right here.

[VIDEO CLIP PLAYS]

CARLSON: A total of 59 police officers were injured in this demonstration against police violence. CNN would like you to believe they attacked themselves, they did not, not in Seattle, not anywhere.

In Oakland, the mobs with helmets and shields attacked a police station. They shot cops with fireworks. They set fire to a courthouse. Here are pictures of it.

[VIDEO CLIP PLAYS]

CARLSON: According to NBC News, the rioters you just saw were quote, "protesters." They burned the courthouse quote, "after a peaceful demonstration intensified." Oh intensified, just like the World Trade Center collapsed when a commercial airline flight intensified.

It's remarkable. You've got to believe there are still normal people working at ABC News, maybe in the tape library or in the cafeteria. Are they watching their own coverage? How can they stand it? The apologies for violence, the relentless shameless lying?

It's hard to believe they haven't resigned. They probably have mortgages and kids who feel for them. Just as you feel for the cameraman who would flee the mob in Sacramento over the weekend.

They were surrounded and apparently assaulted by 150 Joe Biden voters dressed in black paramilitary gear, and had to run for their lives. You'd think other journalists would be sympathetic to this, they used to be? Not anymore.

The stakes are too high. We've got an election coming up and so instead they lie to provide cover for the rioters, the ones who threatened the cameraman.

The Sacramento Bee took pains to tell you that the protests are actually peaceful. The newspaper did its best to downplay the violence, including the fact that so-called protesters are trying to disarm police helicopters with laser pointers.

One of the peaceful protesters ran through the streets with a chainsaw in order to block traffic, no problem. Nothing to see here.

Meanwhile, at mostly peaceful protests in Austin and Aurora, Colorado people were shot. In downtown Louisville, heavily armed militia and military outfits walked through the city threatening violence if police officers weren't sent to jail. No problem, just a protest. In Milwaukee, a black Trump supporter named Bernell Trammell was executed in front of his office in broad daylight. He was killed.

In Portland, Oregon, police seized a bag filled with rifle magazines and Molotov cocktails, not a big deal.

City leaders in Portland ignored 60 straight days of rioting. It's fine, they say. Really? Here is how Portland looked over the weekend.

[VIDEO CLIP PLAYS]

CARLSON: This isn't fine. It's not normal. It's not a protest. These aren't children. These are adults, and they're destroying our country. They're completely out of control. They're violent.

Are they punished? No. Where's the Justice Department in this? Don't we have an Attorney General? Isn't he supposed to be conservative? Why are we allowing this?

Chad Wolf runs the Department of Homeland Security. Wolf, whatever you think of him has been one of the very few officials in Washington, who seems to notice that any of this is happening. He sent Federal law enforcement to Portland to keep the mob from burning down the Federal Courthouse there, which the mob does not own. It is Federal property. They have no right to torch it. It's not theirs. It's ours.

For doing that, for being one of the very few to actually push back a little bit, he was punished. The mob came to Chad Wolf's home yesterday, and they threatened him and his family and they didn't do it suddenly. It wasn't subtext. They said it out loud on camera. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We must make social consequences for these men and women.

GROUP: Yes, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We must make it uncomfortable for them. We will not be good Germans. We are angry neighbors. You can't live here quietly and is able to live just like us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: Oh, she is trying to figure out why the Department of Justice isn't actually doing anything? Why they haven't frog marched the leaders of Antifa in front of the camera? Why they haven't stopped this stuff? While they're acting like they're powerless?

Maybe they don't want mobs like this in front of their houses. Maybe mob violence works. "We must make it uncomfortable for them," she says in a megaphone. What does that mean? Well, we don't need to guess because we just spent all weekend watching what it means.

Here's the contrast that we should never forget. Things change so quickly. You imagine things have always been this way, but they haven't.

There's a presidential election a few months from now. If you disagree with what Chad Wolf has done, you get to vote against Chad Wolf's boss, and Chad Wolf will be out of a job. That's the way we used to do it, when this was a democracy. But not anymore. Now they just go and threaten Chad Wolf's children and the media applaud.

Last month, a radio show host in Seattle called Paul Gallant mocked reports that his city was descending into chaos. These were peaceful protests, he suggested. On Twitter, Gallant reported that he saw, quote, "no burning, pillaging or deaths." Of course those things were happening. They existed. We showed you tape of it at the time.

But Gallant pretended otherwise. We don't know why we'd have to assume because he thought it would help his team. Then the rioters showed up in the building where he lives, in his apartment building and they destroyed the Starbucks downstairs and that scared him.

Now, Gallant says he is buying a gun. Ah, it turns out it's not so easy to lie about violence when it's aimed at you.

Jason Rantz is a Seattle based radio host. We're happy to have him on tonight. Jason, thanks so much for coming on. So you just had a lot of violence in the City of Seattle over the weekend. Tell us what you saw and tell us what the reaction from local government was, please.

JASON RANTZ, SEATTLE RADIO SHOW HOST: Well, it's almost like we're dealing with a masterclass of gaslighting because I know what I saw and I know what a lot of people who saw the images that I posted online saw, which was violence, which was arson against five construction trailers, which was a Starbucks that was completely ransacked, and someone tried to set it on fire and they didn't know of course stop at Starbucks. They also impacted some other businesses.

But we're being told that it's peaceful or maybe it's just a few people, it's a few bad apples in a larger crowd. As if they were redecorating the Starbucks with their rocks, as if they were celebrating police by throwing fireworks at them.

What we're seeing is violence. What we saw was a riot and anyone who says otherwise is lying to you. I understand that there's some nuance to go into when you're talking about a very large crowd and there are like two or three bad actors, but the entire crowd is almost full of bad actors.

It started off peaceful on Saturday, as they walked to the Juvenile Detention Center. There was about 4,000 to 5,000 people. Then they set it on fire. And then all of a sudden, that crowd was about 1,500.

The people who stayed are the bad actors. The people who stayed are the rioters. The people who stayed were saying some horrible things and their goal was not to protest against police brutality. This has nothing to do with George Floyd. This has everything to do with a very specific ideology, and I think that there are politicians and media members who believe that this is going to create enough momentum and chaos to get Donald Trump out of office.

I think it's a mistake. I think it's going to backfire on them, but I do think some of them are willing to sit by and see some of these cities complete get destroyed. And yes, some people lose their lives. It's an evil position to take, all because they are justifying, well, if we can get Donald Trump out of office, this guy who was supposed to lead us to the end of civilization, it didn't quite actually happen over the period of the last three and a half years. But this time, it'll happen if he gets reelected. They've convinced themselves this.

CARLSON: I don't know what kind of person could justify harming individuals in the name of winning a presidential campaign. I don't think any decent person on either side would ever do that, and I mean it.'

RANTZ: He will be --

CARLSON: I think that's right. I think that's right. Great to see tonight. Thank you.

RANTZ: Good to see.'

CARLSON: Well, speaking of violence, one of the epicenters of it in this country, and this has been true for a while now, tragically is Chicago. Two thousand two hundred and forty three people have been shot in the city of Chicago so far this year. How many people is that? It's enough to feel 46 fully loaded school buses, and indeed many of them were children.

The mayor of Chicago, Lori Lightfoot doesn't like the police and she is responding to this crisis by demanding more police units outside of her home. Wait a second. She doesn't like police, but she wants more cops outside her home. Why is that? Because her safety is the only thing she cares about.

She knows she presides over a city where people are getting killed, and she doesn't want to be one of them.

Now, sources tell this show that her district Police Commander refused to move more cops into her neighborhood. He said that his officers are already stretched too thin protecting the citizens of Chicago. For this he was punished, he was promptly reassigned to another unit.

We asked the Mayor's Office about this and they angrily denied it. They said the mayor had no role in the reassignment of the Police Commander. Of course, they didn't pledge to jump in and fix it. We'll let you decide whether they're telling the truth or not.

Anthony Napolitano is an alderman in the City of Chicago and he joins us tonight. Alderman, thanks so much for coming on.

ANTHONY NAPOLITANO, ALDERMAN, CHICAGO: Hi, Tucker. How are you?

CARLSON: I'm well, but the idea that the Mayor of Chicago asked for police protection for herself when thousands have been shot in the city so far this year makes me dizzy, the hypocrisy of that.

NAPOLITANO: Yes, you know, honestly, I can't attest to that situation in general. But what I can tell you talking to many police officers and many high ranking officers, there are a lot of these commanders, these captains, these lieutenants that are getting to the boiling point right now. They're just -- they feel so understaffed. They don't have enough men and women, police officers on the street, and when they're forced to reallocate police to different portions of the city that can't handle the crime going on right now, they are leaving their districts and their neighborhoods more vulnerable.

It's getting to the point right now, like I said before, we're not able to keep up with the rate of attrition because these bosses are retiring. They feel like they're leaving their men and women out there in harm's way and it's a scary point right now for them.

CARLSON: So if you look at the crime stats in the city, and they are overwhelming and tragic because each one represents a life ended, or certainly halted, you've got to kind of know -- no honest person could conclude that the police are responsible for 2,400 shootings this year. They're not. The cops didn't do that.

What's the purpose of pulling back the police in the middle of a crime wave, honestly?

NAPOLITANO: You know, if you actually look at the stats, I think shooting wise in the City of Chicago, police account for maybe 0.06 percent of the shooting.

CARLSON: Exactly.

NAPOLITANO: Compiled, actually our numbers in eight years is almost 23,000 people were shot. Pulling them back right now, I don't know. It just doesn't -- it doesn't make any sense. We can't -- we can't get enough police officers actually to even take this job right now because of the defund movement and the anti-police movement.

But on top of it right now, officers don't -- they're not afraid to be the police, they want to be given the go ahead to be the police and have someone actually back them, someone get behind them and know that they're doing job the best to their ability and mistakes will happen, but you're going to back them on behalf of saving the city.

Pulling resources is just -- I live in the 16th District, 32 square miles, sometimes we'll have three to four police officers patrolling the 16th District. That's absolutely ludicrous. We should have anywhere between 32 and 38 on the street in our district, but it's based on the reallocation of officers to other areas. It's forcing officers off this job.

CARLSON: It's terrifying. You're one of 50 aldermen. I hope the other 49 listen to you and the mayor. Mr. Napolitano, thanks so much for coming on tonight. I appreciate it.

NAPOLITANO: Thanks for having me, Tucker.

CARLSON: Well, Major League Baseball started its season last week. That's the good news. The bad news is the coronavirus is already threatening to end it. Dr. Marc Siegel joins us after the break.

Plus, we've talked to a New Jersey gym owner several times on the show. He defied the governor's orders. He said he was willing to face the consequences for that. This morning, he was arrested and handcuffed. He joins us after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON: The University of Notre Dame in Indiana announced today that it will no longer host a presidential debate this September. The University's President blamed the coronavirus quote, "Health precautions would have greatly diminished the educational value of hosting the debate on our campus," end quote.

Now it's possible that's the literal truth in the entire story. On the other hand, given that every major institution in American life opposes Donald Trump's reelection, maybe there's more to it.

On the face of it, it does seem like an odd move. Schools usually fight to host debates. It's free advertising for them, Hofstra, Washington University in St. Louis, the chances are you've heard of those places because they hosted presidential debates.

But Notre Dame says it doesn't want a debate because not enough students could attend it. Will other schools reach the same conclusion? If they do, could we wind up with an abbreviated number of presidential debates staged by remote on say Facebook or Zoom? Who knows? We don't know.

We do know that would certainly help Joe Biden.

Well, 11 players and two coaches of the Miami Marlins have tested positive for the coronavirus now. The outbreak comes less than a week after the league launched its short 60-game season. So what does this mean for the rest of the season?

Fox News medical contributor, Dr. Marc Siegel joins us tonight with an answer to that question. Doctor, good to see you.

DR. MARC SIEGEL, FOX NEWS CHANNEL MEDICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Tucker, in 1969 three things happened. You were born, a man landed on the moon and my miracle Mets won the World Series. And you know what? The American psyche, the national psyche, our spirit is tied into our national pastime baseball.

All sports, all eyes are on Major League Baseball, and the problem tonight as you just said is several players on the Miami Marlins in a hotspot -- from a hotspot have tested positive.

The problem is not with baseball itself, Tucker. Baseball is a sport that is socially distanced by definition. You're standing in the outfield. You're all alone. You're in the infield. You don't encounter anyone.

The problem is that the way baseball is right now, everyone is playing in their home park. They're on the team buses. They're traveling together. They're eating at restaurants. They're sharing equipment. Equipment bags are being brought onto buses.

Whereas the NBA and the NFL are doing bubble type techniques where they're playing in one place. NBA in Orlando, NHL -- National Hockey League in Edmonton and Toronto. Major League Baseball needs to survive this season to send a message to all sports. We need our sports. We need Major League Baseball.

I want them to consider my prescription for Major League Baseball tonight, consider going to hubs. Consider going to cities and areas where there's not a lot of COVID-19 and not traveling as much and sticking together and not going around to as many restaurants and as many buses and as many planes.

Let's restrict some of that and keep baseball going at all costs. Very important, Tucker.

CARLSON: I think it is. All parts of this 250-year-old culture are important and that's certainly one of them. Dr. Siegel, thank you so much thanks.

SIEGEL: Thanks, Tucker.

CARLSON: So we've introduced you to the owners of the Atilus Gym in Bellmawr, New Jersey a couple of times on this show. This morning they were arrested. Why? For defying the state's mandatory shutdown orders. Those arrests come after a three-month standoff between the co-owner of the gym, Ian Smith and the governor of New Jersey, Phil Murphy, both of whom have been on the show.

At one point, Smith removed the doors from the gym so the state couldn't keep them shut. Before reopening last May, he announced that he was willing to deal with the consequences of violating state law.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: You're openly defying him on television. What do you think's going to happen to you when you do this?

IAN SMITH, ATILUS GYM OWNER, BELLMAWR, NEW JERSEY: We're prepared for any and all consequences. Our actions on Monday are going to be grounded in the ideals of civil disobedience.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: He should have just set a Federal building on fire, screamed the right slogans, Ian Smith would be fine, but he didn't, and so he was arrested. He joins us tonight. Ian, good to see you. Tell us what happened.

SMITH: Good evening, Tucker. So from the last time that we spoke, we had lost our newest case of contempt of court and that was on Friday of last week.

The governor said that -- and requested in court to take extraordinary measures to stop us from operating a business and Judge Robert Lougy agreed with him. My partner and I had had the doors removed since Thursday and we had not left the building since. We had two weeks' worth of clothing and we were prepared to stay inside at all costs.

But we did agree that we would go peacefully if law enforcement came. That time came this morning at about 5:10 this morning, when the County Sheriff walked in the building and said that we were under arrest.

Frank and I at that point went peacefully, and when we arrived back after being booked, we had boarded up doors.

CARLSON: I hoped the Sheriff was embarrassed. I assume, he was. There are murderers walking free, a lot of them in New Jersey tonight. Maybe they should do something real.

You went on this show, you knew that that was wagging a finger in the face of the tyrants who run your state. You did it anyway. Why?

SMITH: Because I'm not afraid of tyrants and no American should be, because we outnumber them greatly. And the only thing that they run off of is fear, which is why you see what you see in the media, where they're pumping fear into the coronavirus, when what they should be pumping is solutions.

They don't do that. They don't ever offer any solutions. It's wear a mask, shut up and wait for a vaccine. That's not public health, and I won't subscribe to it.

CARLSON: That's just the most moving thing I have heard in a long time, and I just want you to restate for our viewers who didn't see your last appearance on this show. How many infections of COVID-19 have been documented in your gym so far? Just to give our audience some sense of the public health threat that you pose.

SMITH: At this point, we have record from June that we reopened and allowed visitors to our facility. We have over 13,000 visitors who have come to Atilus Gym in Bellmawr, and not a single case so far.

Governor Murphy cannot say that about the long term care facilities that are 100 percent in his control that have been shut down since March and account for over 50 percent of the deaths in the state.

CARLSON: Yes, so you pose a documented -- this is not speculation. The health authorities say you pose no threat at all, not one infection and you were handcuffed and arrested because you defied Governor Murphy.

You're a brave man, Ian, and I'm grateful that you've come on the show and I hope you will keep us posted as to what happens next.

SMITH: Just one more thing to end the night, Tucker, if I could. Governor Murphy asked us for 14 days to shut down -- 14 days today in New Jersey. It is day 132 of the shutdown. And I would just like everybody to think about that long and hard before they support his policies.

CARLSON: Yes, once they get power, they never relinquish it. So as you know. Great to see you tonight. Thank you.

SMITH: Good night, Tucker.

CARLSON: Good night. So, here is the least controversial fact in social science. Children who are raised by two married parents perform much better in school, earn more as adults, much more likely to graduate, much less likely to become addicted to drugs or alcohol, far less likely to go to jail and are healthier.

There are many benefits to growing up, in fact, in an intact nuclear family, but two parent households in this country are in steep decline.

An update on the state of the American family is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON: One of the most outspokenly conservative professors in the United States died last week, there are not many. Mike Adams taught at the University of North Carolina, Wilmington. He was direct about his views. Adams opposed censorship and thought abortion was wrong.

He believed in facts. He believed in historical record. Here's a clip of Adams describing what he thought of campus speech codes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE ADAMS, PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA, WILMINGTON: They consider this to be a political weapon for them to shut down speech that they can't rebut.

I've got a definition by the way for hate speech, I think it's speech that the hate -- that the left hates because they lack the intelligence to rebut it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: It is one thing for a talk show host to say that, but you can imagine the response when a Professor says it. For articulating his beliefs, Adams faced never ending harassment.

After he criticized the tyrannical behavior of the Governor of North Carolina during the coronavirus shutdowns, thousands petitioned for his removal. And in the end, the mob won. The University of North Carolina, Wilmington forced Adams into early retirement. His last day would have been next week.

Well, last week, Adams apparently shot himself. But it wasn't enough. The media continued to attack him. NBC News ran a piece entitled, "Professor behind vile racist and sexist tweets found dead in north carolina home." That's real. BuzzFeed ran a story with this headline, quote, "A Professor who was known for his racist, misogynistic tweets was found dead in his home."

Imagine doing something like that, writing something like that about a dead man. They didn't think twice. That's who they are. That's what they'd do to you.

Well, there's been a lot of research, longitudinal serious research over the decades, and it's very clear, it couldn't be clearer. Children raised by married parents vastly outperform children who weren't on every scale, on average. They're happier, healthier, more successful. They're paid more. They're not in jail. They graduate.

So we should be very concerned about a new Senate report. It shows the demise of two parent households has accelerated dramatically in this country. One notable collapse is the percentage of young women who are married, that's dropped from 71 percent in 1962 to 42 percent in 2019.

The result of this, people aren't getting married, but they're still having children. That means a massive uptick and out of wedlock births. Out of wedlock births rose from five percent of all births in 1960 to 40 percent of all births today.

Heather Mac Donald is the author of "The Diversity Delusion." She's studied these trends carefully, and we're happy to have her on the show tonight. So Heather, the first thing I noticed, and I think it's -- the science of this is so clear, I don't think there's even a debate about it.

But I noticed that in affluent neighborhoods like the one I've spent a lot of my life living in, not one person will judge out of wedlock births, but there are no out of wedlock births. Everyone is married and has kids within marriage. What does that tell you?

HEATHER MAC DONALD, MANHATTAN INSTITUTE: It tells you that the elites have lost faith in the bourgeois values that they practice, but they're not willing to articulate because they believe that somehow they're associated with white supremacy.

We've been hearing a lot, Tucker, about this white privilege meme. That's a poisonous fiction. Here's the real class divide in this country, and sadly, it's also a race divide, the likelihood of growing up with two married parents.

I'm going to break a massive feminist taboo here and say that males matter. That fathers matter. That fathers bring a set of values and norms to child rearing, whether it's self-reliance or self-discipline, honor and courage. On average, that complement what mothers can bring.

CARLSON: Of course.

MAC DONALD: And when you lose that symmetry, and that emotional support for children, that goes so far beyond economic support, which is largely irrelevant, it's the fact that you have twice as much kinship support and people that two parents can spell each other when one is exhausted. That's what results in successful children.

And the anarchy that we've lived through with the looting and the rioting of the last month, Tucker, has been preceded by a more slow motion anarchy and breakdown, which is the breakdown of the family because our prisons today are filled almost exclusively with fatherless men.

CARLSON: I can't think of any national politician who would say that. I mean, Barack Obama talked about fathers. I don't think he ever once mentioned marriage because unmarried mothers are a core constituency in his party, other than maybe I'm serious, Kanye West. I can't think of anybody who has ever said anything like that. Why?

MAC DONALD: The feminists rule our discourse. You're not allowed to say that men matter. I mean, belief survivors believe that they live in a rape culture. I will say though, that before he was elected President, Barack Obama in 2008, gave a Father's Day speech from Chicago that I urge all your listeners, but I urge in particular, the so-called progressives to read, where he gave the facts that you started with, Tucker, about the much greater chance that fatherless boys ended up in prison, end up out of school, end up in gangs.

Sadly, Obama did not act on that speech, and the Republicans have not been much better. Part of the problem is, is that so many of them, if they were married initially, are now divorced. So it's a hard thing to turn this around. But we have to because the breakdown of the family is the biggest civilizational catastrophe that we're facing today that is the root of the spiraling crime, insane drive-by shootings that we see in the inner city and the destruction of human potential.

CARLSON: I couldn't agree more. The science is completely clear. And by the way, just because you're divorced doesn't disqualify you from telling the truth. If you drink too much, it doesn't mean you want your kids to be alcoholics.

I mean, this -- the whole personalist political identity is everything is one of the dumbest ideas we've ever internalized that we have internalized.

MAC DONALD: Yes.

CARLSON: Heather Mac Donald, really one of our smartest guests ever. Great to see you. Thank you.

MAC DONALD: Thanks, Tucker.

CARLSON: So Greg Gutfeld, in addition to being a TV star has thought deeply about so-called cancel culture and how to defeat it. It's possible he just wrote a whole book about it. He's here to tell us what he's concluded, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON: So if you're Antifa, you can burn down a Federal building or storm a police station; but if you're you, the rules are different. Say one wrong thing and you're done. That's called cancel culture. Can we stop it?

Fox's Greg Gutfeld has thought a lot about this. He has written a new book, "The Plus: Self-Help for People Who Hate Self-Help." It comes out tomorrow. We're happy to have the great Greg Gutfeld on our show tonight.

Greg, congrats on the book. What can we do ...

GREG GUTFELD, FOX NEWS HOST: Thank you.

CARLSON: ... to end -- to cancel, cancel culture?

GUTFELD: Well, first I have to say that amazing gym owner was amazing.

CARLSON: Amazing.

GUTFELD: That beard. I could live in that beard. I could live like a little elf inside a little Keebler hole in his beard.

Okay, I had to get that out of the way. Here's the deal with cancel culture.

CARLSON: I don't want to think about that.

GUTFELD: Yes, you should. Here's the thing about cancel culture. This is the first work around for the First Amendment in history. Because whenever you complain about cancel culture, they will say, you have the First Amendment, freedom of speech. We're just going to ruin your career and take your livelihood and drive you to suicide. So it actually makes the First Amendment meaningless.

There's no way First Amendment can help you.

CARLSON: Exactly.

GUTFELD: So identified the problems, right? Cancel culture defines you at your worst. The past is always present. Something you did a long time ago doesn't matter. If you apologize, that's merely an appetizer, and the media becomes the amplifier for these deeds simply for clicks.

So the solution which I have in my book, you need to make cancel culture costly, because right now it's too cheap to pull it off.

CARLSON: Yes.

GUTFELD: The low barrier for entry to join a mob is nil. So, the solution is to make it expensive and the key is to share the risk. If we stick together, and it's really easy. The price becomes too high for the mob. The only reason why they exist is because we don't stick together.

We get scared. We hide. Companies will virtue signal rather than protect their employees. We often need to build in mutually assured destruction.

The assumption that cancel culture could rebound on them destroys it. Remember that reporter that canceled the kid who donated all that money to the Children's Hospital? They found like an old tweet. Then like a week later, they found tweets of the reporter. He lost his job. It has to be like that.

CARLSON: So you have to use -- I'm not sure I'm for that. I mean, there's no way to not use their tactics and beat them. It's just a disgusting one.

GUTFELD: You could be nice.

CARLSON: Yes.

GUTFELD: It really is. I think there's a good positive part about this in terms of being "The Plus." You should define people by their best intentions. You should everyday ask yourself if you are contributing to mob culture, especially on social media.

Sometimes I'm guilty of it, especially if I drink a little wine. So I try to stay off. We tend to look at Twitter as an ex. We're trying to impress them, rather than looking at it as a harmful, unknown quality.

The reason why Tucker Carlson is the happiest talk show host on Earth, is because he never sets foot on social media. I'm not even sure he knows how to turn on a computer. That's why he doesn't care.

And one of the solutions to cancel culture is not giving a damn. The problem is, the culture can still care about you. You can't just turn off the weather. They can follow you everywhere.

But I think that you have to share the risk, and everyday ask yourself, is there a way to help people who are in trouble?

CARLSON: I think that's really wise advice and on your way out, I just -- this is for you, Greg Gutfeld. We have a picture of the beard.

GUTFELD: Yes.

CARLSON: You'd like to live inside. The rotted oak tree you'd like to tote your acorns to.

GUTFELD: Do you know how cozy that would be?

CARLSON: I can't believe it.

GUTFELD: I'm all for cozy.

CARLSON: I think we indulged that.

GUTFELD: I am all for cozy.

CARLSON: Unbelievable. Congrats on the book.

GUTFELD: You endorsed it.

CARLSON: I sort of.

GUTFELD: Thank you, buddy.

CARLSON: Great to see you. Well, there's been a lot happening in this country, international pandemics, trade wars, domestic upheaval have rocked this country in a way it hasn't been in a long time.

Who is benefiting? China is benefiting? We will talk to someone who has thought a lot about how they're benefiting, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON: There is evidence including from Chinese scientists, the coronavirus began in a Chinese lab. The Chinese government certainly lied about its spread, then engaged in sketchy trade practices that destroyed millions of American manufacturing jobs.

Fentanyl floods in from China. Hundreds of thousands of Americans have died from that.

So China has caused havoc, are they benefiting from it? That's the question for Bill Hagerty. He is running for Senate in Tennessee. He's in the middle of a tough primary. This segment has nothing to do with that.

We've asked to talk to Mr. Hagerty because it was knowledge of Asia. He served as the U.S. Ambassador to Japan and we're happy to have him on tonight. Mr. Hagerty, thanks so much for coming on.

So the concern would be that after all the problems we've dealt with, thanks to China, they are taking advantage of our weakness to increase their advantage. Do you think that's happening?

BILL HAGERTY (R), FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO JAPAN: Absolutely, Tucker. I know that that's the case. That's one of the key reasons that President Trump has endorsed me for the United States Senate. He knows that he needs an ally that understands the scene in China up close and personal. I've dealt with them. We've got to deal with China strictly and toughly.

CARLSON: The fentanyl question is one that baffles me. So hundreds of thousands of Americans have died from ODs, far more than have died from COVID-19.

HAGERTY: Indeed.

CARLSON: That's chemicals coming from China primarily. Nobody ever says that. Why?

HAGERTY: We should be saying it. President Trump negotiated in Buenos Aires to stop this with the Chinese Premier. They haven't. Again, we need to stand up strong to deal with this.

They're killing Americans. They're sending the material over to Mexico. It's coming across a very porous border. We've got to stand with President Trump to seal the border to secure it to stop the lawlessness and in this drug trade.

CARLSON: Does it seem like tensions between the U.S. and China are escalating to a new level? There are signs, consulates closing, et cetera, that they are.

HAGERTY: Yes.

CARLSON: Are they?

HAGERTY: Indeed, indeed, Tucker and as U.S. Ambassador, to Japan, I've seen it up close. They've advanced on us militarily. The minute we step back in the South China Sea, they advanced their forces. That's why President Trump has sent two aircraft carrier groups out that direction.

We've got to stand up to them militarily. Diplomatically, you've seen what they've done. They overtook the World Health Organization. I applaud President Trump for taking us out of that group.

And economically, they've been a predator for years. We've seen Presidents both Democrat and Republican look the other way as they continued to mount their aggression.

They've taken our jobs. They've destroyed our economy with this pandemic, and they've killed over 150,000 Americans. They need to be held to account and I look forward to serving to help do that.

CARLSON: Bill Hagerty, I appreciate it. Thanks for coming on tonight. Former U.S. ambassador to Japan.

HAGERTY: Thank you so much, Tucker. Great to be with you.

CARLSON: Thank you very much. So many things going on right now that it's almost impossible to keep track of all of them.

We spend an inordinate amount of time we think it is worth it, but covering the chaos in our streets, but that doesn't mean there isn't a lot happening behind it.

And so we're going to make every effort this week and going forward not to let stories fall through the cracks that really matter.

In the meantime, we'll be back tomorrow night at eight. The show that is the sworn enemy of lying, pomposity, smugness and groupthink. We mean it.

Have a great night with the ones you love.

Now, it is time for Sean Hannity from New York.

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