Gov. Hutchinson: Trump misled followers into believing election was rigged, resulted in attack on Capitol
Gov. Asa Hutchinson, R-Ark., joins Chris Wallace on ‘Fox News Sunday.’
This is a rush transcript from "Fox News Sunday" January 17, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: I'm Chris Wallace.
Washington prepares for the inauguration of President Joe Biden, but the
nation's capital is under an extraordinary security lockdown.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WALLACE (voice-over): D.C. bristling with more than 20,000 members of the
National Guard, after the shocking attack on the Capitol. And now, states
across the country ramp up after the FBI warns of the threat of more
violence.
We'll discuss security preparations with Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson,
vice chair of the National Governors Association.
Then, President-elect Biden lays out his agenda calling for an almost $2
trillion COVID relief package.
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT: I know what I just described does not come
cheaply. We simply cannot afford not to do what I'm proposing.
WALLACE: We'll talk with Brian Deese, Biden's pick to succeed Larry Kudlow
as the top White House economic advisor, about the pushback to the plan's
massive price tag.
Plus, we'll ask our Sunday panel about President Trump's second impeachment
and what to expect in the Senate trial.
And Apple takes right-leaning Parler off its App Store.
Isn't big tech restricting speech?
Our one-on-one with the tech giant's chief executive Tim Cook.
All, right now, on "FOX News Sunday."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WALLACE (on camera): And hello again from FOX News in Washington.
Three days from now, Joe Biden will take the oath of office on the west
front of the capitol, the same spot where less than two weeks ago, a mob of
insurrectionist tried to stop Congress from certifying the results of the
election. Now, Washington is locked down by thousands of military and
police amid threats of more violence.
Meanwhile, President Trump's final days in office are marked by growing
isolation. Members of his cabinet resigning, ten House Republicans voting
to impeach him a second time, and losing access to Twitter, his biggest
political megaphone.
Later this hour, we'll discuss the power of big tech with Apple CEO Tim
Cook.
But first, David Spunt reports on the effort to protect the nation's
capital and cities across the country leading up to the inauguration.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID SPUNT, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Chris, right now, the
U.S. Capitol is a fortress. Twenty thousand National Guard troops are on
watch, more are on the way.
MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are committed to an
orderly transition and to a safe inauguration.
SPUNT: The vice president's pledge of one week after rioters stormed the
Capitol. Five people, including the capitol police officer, died. Every
day, authorities make new arrests including Jacob Chansley, who allegedly
warned the vice president in the note, quote, justice is coming.
The TSA may add those arrested to the no-fly list ahead of Wednesday's
transfer of power.
CHRISTOPHER WRAY, FBI DIRECTOR: We are seeing an extensive amount of
concerning online chatter, it's the best way I would describe it.
SPUNT: Authorities haven't announced any specific threats but the FBI and
Secret Service have D.C. fortified with more troops than in Iraq and
Afghanistan combined.
Friday, authorities arrested a man with a Glock, ammunition, and
unauthorized credentials trying to enter a restricted area in Washington.
After being released, he claimed he got lost.
WESLEY BEELER, ARRESTED NEAR CAPITOL: I forgot my firearm was in the
truck. I was trying to make it to work.
SPUNT: The nation's governors layering on extra protection in state
capitols across the country.
GOV. TIM WALZ (D), MINNESOTA: We take the threats to our capital and to
our citizens incredibly seriously.
GOV. MIKE DEWINE (R), OHIO: There are people in our country who want to
turn peaceful protests into opportunities for violence.
SPUNT: Multiple state capitol buildings are closed through inauguration
day -- Chris.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WALLACE: David, thank you.
And, joining us now, Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson, vice chair of the
National Governors Association,
Governor, I want to start with a warning this week from FBI Director Chris
Wray. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTOPHER WRAY, FBI DIRECTOR: We're concerned about the potential for
violence at multiple protests and rallies planned here in D.C. and at state
capitol buildings around the country in the days to come that could bring
armed individuals within close proximity to government buildings and
officials.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Governor, do you have intelligence about rallies like that this
week in Arkansas? And have you beefed up security to protect our state
capitol in Little Rock?
GOV. ASA HUTCHINSON (R), ARKANSAS: Well, thank you, Chris.
And the answer is yes. We have both intelligence that there's going to be
activity around our capitol and capitols across the country. Much of it
comes from the FBI, but our own intelligence, and we are taking necessary
precautions to make sure that we protect our capitol and our citizens.
You have to -- you want to be overprepared versus underprepared because we
never want to see a repeat of what we saw on January 6th in our nation's
capitol.
WALLACE: What are you specifically being told about the threat level of
the rallies in your state?
HUTCHINSON: It's not to the level that I'm bringing out the National
Guard. We are using civilian law enforcement. We have response teams there.
We'll have a beefed up presence at the capitol for Tuesday. We actually
have a rally for today.
And, there's not -- we don't have any specific intelligence that there's
going to be violence associated with those rallies, but we want to be extra
precautious. Every state has to look at their own intelligence matrix and
make those kinds of judgments. I know some governors have beefed up even
more than that.
But I think the deterrent value of what we've seen over the last couple of
days has had an impact and hopefully has diminished that threat level.
WALLACE: An Arkansan named Richard Barnett was arrested for violent entry
to the capital. We have a picture of him up on the screen on January 6th.
He's the man pictured on the left, who broke into Speaker Pelosi's office,
posed for pictures and stole her mail. His mug shot is on the right.
Governor, is there an element in your state that you believe poses a threat
to -- whether it's on the federal level or the state level, poses a threat
to our government?
HUTCHINSON: Well, I think there is an historic threat from militia groups,
from those that I dealt with in the 1980s when I was United States
attorney, of neo-Nazi white supremacists, terrorist organizations. That's
been diminished, but I would say most states have some element of that
threat. It exists in Arkansas as well.
And let me just say that it is critical that those including the two that's
been arrested from Arkansas meet the full measure of the law. That is
unacceptable conduct and we will -- and that serves in and of itself as a
deterrent.
WALLACE: Yeah, we should point out there's another Arkansan who's been
arrested, he's the fellow who was seen banging, hitting police officers
with an American flag.
Back on November 7th, just four days after our presidential election, you
issued the statement: While we await the outcome of various court
challenges it is important that we recognize the likelihood that former
Vice President Biden and Senator Harris have won over 270 electoral votes.
Governor, in spreading stories over these last two months about a rigged
election, in the words he said to that crowd of thousands of people on the
Mall on January 6th, what responsibility do you think President Trump bears
for the attack on the U.S. Capitol?
HUTCHINSON: Well, he asked all of the people to come to Washington for the
rally and then he used a very aggressive language in the rally itself and
he misled people as to -- and his followers -- as to what happened during
the election, that it was stolen and that our checks and balances are not
working.
And while I do believe there can be an effective review always to make sure
our systems of elections work well, the Electoral College is what is
critical to our nation. I supported that, and his challenge to that was
wrong and did not serve our nation well and it was demonstrated on January
6th.
WALLACE: So, you had three terms in Congress and in fact you served as an
impeachment manager for the House in the Clinton impeachment in the late
'90s. If you were in Congress now, would you have voted for the Trump
impeachment? It certainly was much more consequential than the case against
Bill Clinton.
HUTCHINSON: Very serious allegations. The impeachment is something that is
both a legal equation, but it's also a political equation and I did not
believe that with the remaining weeks that were left in President Trump's
term that that served our country well to go through the House impeachment.
Now that the House has impeached President Trump, either the House can hold
the articles of impeachment there, but once they send them over to the
Senate, the Senate trial is triggered and there's no option about that. And
so, we're going to go through a very challenging time.
And having gone through the impeachment before, I do think it's important
that the Senate hear both the legal arguments about that, about what
happened, but also the facts and make a judgment and I think at this point,
the outcome is unpredictable.
WALLACE: After the riot in the U.S. Capitol, you had this to say about
President Trump: It's going to diminish that cult of personality and I
think it will help bring our party back to policy and conservatism.
Which raises the question, Governor, where does the Republican Party, the
national Republican Party, go from here and how much clout do you think
Donald Trump will have as the next president and the GOP?
HUTCHINSON: Well, it's a great question and, first of all, the GOP had a
very successful election. Yes, we did not win the presidency, but at every
other level, we had success and gained seats.
So, conservatism in the Republican Party is alive and well. Right now, we
are fractured as a result of President Trump and how he has handled it, the
post-election results and challenged the Electoral College, and that has
some division.
But our party will come back together. We're going to have a tough six
months or more coming up. We are going to have a lot of soul-searching
that's going to be done, and it's going to be a fair debate as the
direction of the party both in terms of Trump's influence over it, but it's
also going to be about policy and trade and foreign policy and Biden's
agenda.
So I welcome that policy debate and I think we ought to get back to the
conservative principles that have made our party the majority party and
hopefully, it will move away from that personality-driven that's let us to
where we are right now under President Trump.
WALLACE: Finally, Governor, I want to switch subjects on you. Arkansas has
given out 46 percent of the COVID vaccine doses that you have gotten so
far. I want to ask you, what do you think of the Trump plan as it has
worked so far for getting the vaccine into people's arms? What was your
reaction when you found out that the Trump administration in fact has no
reserve supply of the vaccine despite what had been promised to you?
And briefly, to answer all of these, what do you think of the Biden vaccine
plan as you've heard it so far?
HUTCHINSON: Well, we want to get the vaccines out. We were disappointed
that there wasn't going to be an accelerated delivery of vaccines to our
state and we were not counting on that in our current delivery system, but
we wanted more, because right now, we are going into teachers, those age 70
and over, and we don't have the supply to get them all vaccinated.
Hopefully, that will increase with our great pharmaceutical industry and
their manufacturing capacity, but it's got to increase. In terms of
President-elect Biden's plan, I've met with their transition team a couple
of times on this and they're looking for ways to accelerate that, but --
and the bottom line is, they're dependent upon our manufacturing capacity
and if we can't beef that up, then it's going to be a tough couple of
months in trying to get a limited supply out to everyone that's in need.
We're doing everything we can to accelerate the delivery of the vaccines to
our population, so I expect our current percent, about 40 percent, will go
up. We're getting our systems in better place, there's a greater acceptance
of that, and it's going well. We just need more supply to get it into the
arms quicker.
WALLACE: Governor, thank you. Thanks for joining us. Always good to talk
with you, sir.
HUTCHINSON: Thank you, Chris. Good to be with you today.
WALLACE: Up next, a live report on Joe Biden's plans once he takes office,
and we'll talk with his top White House economic advisor when we come right
back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WALLACE: One of the first acts of the Biden presidency will be pushing a
massive rescue package aimed at boosting an economy hammered by COVID, but
it needs buy-in from Republicans in an evenly split Senate.
In a moment, we'll talk with a top Biden economic advisor, Brian Deese.
But first, let's bring in Jacqui Heinrich, who is covering the president-
elect in Delaware -- Jacqui.
JACQUI HEINRICH, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Chris, the inaugural theme is
America united. But for the first time in more than 150 years, we will not
see the outgoing and incoming president standing together commemorating a
peaceful transfer of power.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HEINRICH (voice-over): No word yet if Vice President Pence will replace
President Trump in the inaugural procession and escort the president-elect
to the capitol. Trump's plans to leave Washington before Joe Biden takes
the oath punctuating what's to be the most consequential speech of Biden's
life delivered to a crowd scaled down by the pandemic surrounded by
thousands of troops staged against more violence.
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN), INAUGURATION COMMITTEE CO-CHAIR: The theme of
the inauguration is about a determined democracy and we picked the theme
actually before all of this happened, of course, and it's even more
meaningful now.
HEINRICH: Biden will not wait for bipartisanship to undo Trump's policies,
planning a ten-day flurry of executive orders beginning with rejoining the
Paris Climate Accord, reversing the travel ban on majority Muslim countries
and mandating masks on federal property. But getting his $1.9 trillion
pandemic relief package through Congress will require diplomacy.
BIDEN: Top economists agree in this moment of crisis, with interest rates
at historic lows, we cannot afford inaction.
HEINRICH: Maneuvering around a filibuster in Biden's first few weeks could
come just as Biden launches part two of that package aimed at jobs in the
economy. Expected to be at least as expensive as the first.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEINRICH (on camera): Biden also told Congress to expect a sweeping
immigration bill his first day in office and urged Congress to keep the
business of the nation on track as they gauge timing for President Trump's
impeachment trial -- Chris.
WALLACE: Jacqui Heinrich reporting from Wilmington, Delaware -- Jacqui,
thank you.
And joining us now, Joe Biden's top White House economic advisor, Brian
Deese.
Brian, welcome to "FOX News Sunday".
BRIAN DEESE, INCOMING DIRECTOR OF THE NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL: Thanks,
Chris. Happy to be here.
WALLACE: So Congress has already passed, over the last year, approved more
than $4 trillion in COVID relief. You are now asking -- the president-elect
is now asking for another $1.9 trillion in COVID relief.
Do you really need all that money?
DEESE: Well, we start from where the economy is today. And the truth is
we're at a very precarious moment. We lost jobs last month for the first
time since this spring. Last week nearly a million Americans fired for
unemployment insurance, which is higher than any week during the Great
recession. And last week 30 million Americans reported that they didn't
have enough food to eat.
So we've got an acute economic crisis and human crisis and we need decisive
action. And so that's really what the president-elect's plan is about. It's
about targeting the core issues that we know we need to tackle. We need to
get shots in people's arms to get the pandemic under control. We need to
get schools open so that parents can get back to work. And we need to get
relief out of those millions of families, millions of businesses who,
through no fault of their own, are continuing to suffer and the economy and
the virus are spiraling downward.
So now is the time to act. We know that this is going to take a lot of
work, but we are ready to do it. And as you saw, the president-elect's
making the case that now is the time to move forward.
WALLACE: Let's drill down on specific parts of the package. You are
calling for another $1,400 direct payment to the vast majority of
Americans. There's criticism why not target it just to those people who
have actually lost a job. There are a lot of people who will get the -- the
$1,400 on top of the $600 who have been doing just fine and haven't been
hit by COVID.
And then there is criticism from conservatives that you have snuck in a
liberal wish list into this package. Let me put some items on the screen.
$20 billion for public transit. $9 billion for cybersecurity. Raise the
minimum wage to $15 an hour.
Whether those last items, Brian, are a good policy idea or not, are -- can
you really say that they are part of emergency COVID relief?
DEESE: Well, if you look at the core of this package, what it's doing is
it's going at those core challenges. So about $400 billion in this package
is going at the vaccination effort and getting schools reopened. Another
portion, as you said, is to buy direct relief that --
WALLACE: You're -- you're going to get -- you -- you will -- you'll get --
Brian, you'll get -- you'll -- you'll get used to me interrupting. That's
what I do on this show.
I'm asking, though, about these specific parts, transit, $15 minimum wage.
DEESE: Sure.
WALLACE: I understand some parts of it clearly are COVID relief, but why
add this stuff to the bill?
DEESE: Sure. Well, let's -- let's look at each of those. The cybersecurity
resources there are in the wake of the Solar Winds hack. We have seen and
now understand significant vulnerabilities that are exacerbated by COVID
and the fact that so much federal operations are happening online. We need
those resources to secure our systems now.
Transit. Look, our transit systems across the country are facing acute
crisis. That's not happening in Democratic states or -- or Republican
states, it's happening around the country. And by providing relief now, we
can help to avoid diminished service and diminished support when we come
out of this crisis. And the $15 minimum wage is a concrete and direct way
to help support those workers who are out there on the front lines right
now providing services to all of us and give them direct support and a
direct boost right now.
WALLACE: Then there's the timetable for -- for passing this COVID relief
package.
Here is President-elect Biden this week.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT-ELECT FOR THE UNITED STATES: The crisis of deep human
suffering is in plain sight. And there's no time to waste. We have to act
and we have to act now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Plan A is to get this package through the Senate with 60 votes to
avoid, to beat a filibuster. But you -- you had Republican senators under
President Trump who were refusing to go over a trillion dollars. They ended
up passing $900 billion. Do you really expect ten Republican senators to
sign on to another $2 trillion?
DEESE: Well, I do want to start with reinforcing the urgency point that
you raised. You look -- just over the weekend an independent firm, Moody's,
showed that if we act immediately, this plan -- and put it in place, the
economy could create seven and a half million jobs this year. That's the
kind of robust recovery that we need.
And if you look at the components of the plan, you mentioned the $1,400
checks. We've seen broad bipartisan support from that, including Republican
senators. You look at other elements of the plan, like an expanded child
tax credit, something that Republican senators have supported in the past.
And if you look at the vaccination efforts and the school efforts here,
we've been talking to governors and mayors across the country, including
Governor Hutchinson, who was just on, Republicans and Democrats who say, we
absolutely need to try to surge support in this critical period of the next
couple months to get the virus under control, to get those schools open,
help parents get back to work, particularly women who are facing a
disproportionate hit here.
WALLACE: Right.
DEESE: I think there's a lot of -- there's a lot of support for taking
these actions. So we -- we're -- we see every reason why Congress should
move out and should move out in a bipartisan way.
WALLACE: Yes, of course, as we -- as you know, as well as I do, should
doesn't always mean it happens.
President-elect Biden has kept open the possibility of ending the
filibuster. If Republicans were to block here -- you have 50 votes, but you
need 60 to break a filibuster. If they -- they block you, would ending the
filibuster so you could pass it with 51 votes with Vice President Harris,
would ending the filibuster be on the table?
DEESE: Well, look, we think we need to move quickly here. But I would also
say, you know, there's a lot of skepticism that the -- a president-elect's
call of unity and working together was going to resonate. And he won the
election resoundingly.
There was a lot of skepticism that Congress would come together in December
in a bipartisan way and deliver a down payment on this relief. And that
happened.
So let's see where we can get here. There is a lot of, again, a lot of
elements of this plan that have support across the board, both in
Washington and in state capitals and around the country. But we need to
act. We need to act quickly. And that's what the economy is telling us.
That's what the experts are telling us. And so that's our priority.
WALLACE: Then, speaking of acting quickly, there's the Senate trial of
Donald Trump. I know the -- the hope is to work out a deal where Congress,
the Senate, can work on the dual track, spend part of the day on business,
like the COVID relief package, Senate confirmations and then part of the
day on the trial.
If you can't get that kind of a deal, if the decision is you're going to go
ahead and do nothing but the trial until you finish it, would there be some
interest on the part of President-elect Biden to delay the trial, get some
of the work done before Nancy Pelosi sends over the articles of
impeachment?
DEESE: Well, look, we think there's every reason that we can move forward
and address multiple issues. We do have multiple crises. We have a -- a --
a lot of pressing business facing the country and so certainly we
understand and expect that the Senate is going to act on its constitutional
duty. But as you mentioned, there is precedent for the Senate moving
forward with an impeachment hearing while at the same time holding
hearings, operating other business. There's precedent historically and even
recently in the first impeachment trial.
So that's going to be our focus is trying to get an agreement and a
structure that will allow that to happen. And we're able to move out on
these multiple fronts and -- and make progress on these multiple
priorities.
WALLACE: Brian, I've got two minutes left. I would like to squeeze two
questions in.
During the campaign, President Trump said the Biden plan for the economy
was exactly the wrong answer.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Biden agenda, with big
tax increases and big regulation increases, would immediately kill
everything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Unemployment was 3.5 percent before COVID hit back in February.
Is raising taxes and increasing regulations, both of which President-elect
Biden has talked about, is that really the answer to get back to what was a
pretty strong economy before the pandemic?
DEESE: Look, I think if you ask most American people, was that an economy
that was working for them, the answer would be, no. And that's a big part
of the reason why the Biden agenda and the Biden economic approach was the
one that won out in this election.
Right now we find ourselves in an economic crisis. We have to focus on the
immediate issues in front of us and we need to act decisively.
One of the things we've learn in crises is that acting decisively will put
us on a path to have a stronger economic recovery coming out of this. So
that's going to be our -- our focus, our immediate focus. Let's get
decisive action. Let's put the economy on a stronger trajectory. That will
be the best thing for American people, American workers.
WALLACE,And, finally, I've got less than a minute left. The irony in all
this is that after you were appointed there was a lot of pushback from the
left wing of the Democratic Party that you, in your work for the Obama
administration, were too conservative, that you actually called for
deregulation not more regulations and also called for cutting back on
spending. So is the left wrong or have you had a change of mind from your
previous service in -- in the Democratic administration?
DEESE: Well, look, the -- the -- the president-elect has a clear vision for
making this economy work for working Americans again. That's a vision that
I share and that we're going to wake up every day trying to move forward.
It involves addressing some of the significant structural inequities in our
economy that have left out too many Americans, including black and brown
Americans around this country who have not had a fair shot, and that's
going to be our focus. It's going to be my focus. That's been my animating
focus across the last decade or more in public life and private life and I
think that that's going to be what the president-elect expects of us and
certainly that's what I and the team will carry forward.
WALLACE: Brian, thank you. Thanks for your time this weekend and please
come back, sir.
DEESE: Thank you. Thanks for having me on.
WALLACE: Up next, we'll bring in our Sunday group to discuss how the Senate
will juggle the impeachment trial of Donald Trump while also dealing with
Joe Biden's nominees and his ambitious agenda.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WALLACE: Coming up, a parting shot from President Trump as he lashes out at
House Democrats.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This impeachment is causing
tremendous anger and you're doing it and it's really a terrible thing that
they're doing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: We'll ask our Sunday panel whether a Senate trial detracts from
the Biden agenda, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): We know that the president of the United States
incited this insurrection, this armed rebellion against our common country.
He must go. He is a clear and present danger to the nation that we all
love.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi making the case for urgent action by
Congress as she pushed for the second impeachment of Donald Trump.
And it's time now for our Sunday group.
GOP strategist Karl Rove, pollster and Fox News contributor Kristen Soltis
Anderson, and Fox News political analyst Juan Williams.
Karl, Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell says that he is keeping an
open mind about the second impeachment trial of Donald Trump. A big
difference, sharp difference, from his clear opposition from the very start
of the first impeachment trial just a year ago.
What do you think, Karl, are the chances that 17 Senate Republicans, and
that's what it would take, if all of the Democrats vote for conviction, 17
Senate Republicans would vote to convict Donald Trump and remove him --
well, he'll be removed from office, but to keep him from running again?
KARL ROVE, FORMER BUSH WHITE HOUSE ADVISER AND FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well,
normally we'd say not much chance, but I think Leader McConnell's statement
is a sign that ever Republican senator needs to take this seriously. And I
think it's all going to boil down to, what's the president's defense.
Rudy Giuliani charted a very bad course for the president in the morning
papers when he suggested that the argument was going to be, well, there
couldn't have been incitement because all the charges of widespread voter
fraud are true. Well, those charges and the so-called experts that the
campaign has mustered to advocate them have been rejected by over 50 courts
with judges appointed by President Trump, President Obama, President Bush,
President Clinton and I think even one Reagan justice. So if -- it -- it --
this would -- if it's the Rudy Giuliani defense, there is a strong
likelihood that more than 17 Republicans will because essentially that
argument is, this was justified, the attack on the Capital and the attempt
to -- to end the -- the congressional hearing on certifying the election
was justified because all these charges are true. And, frankly, they
aren't. They have given -- been given every opportunity to prove them in a
court of law and have failed to do so.
So I think it really boils down to, what's the defense that the president's
going to -- is going to make. And if it's Rudy Giuliani's defense, I think
there's a -- it raises the likelihood of more than 17 Republicans voting
for conviction.
WALLACE: Juan, what do you think are the chances that the Senate,
Republicans and Democrats, will vote to convict the president and ban him
from running for office again? And, is this a bad way for Joe Biden to
start his presidency and -- with his calls for unity?
JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS POLITICAL ANALYST: Well -- well, Chris, I think
you're right in saying, you know, you only need 17. Joe Manchin, on the
Democrat side, is pretty clear he's opposed to impeachment at this moment.
But if -- some senators may simply stay away. You need two-thirds of those
who are present, and I think, you know, going back to Karl's point, if
Senator McConnell decides that he is not only open to conviction, but
allowing others to pursue that path, then I think he gives them cover to
absolutely do that.
And, remember, the articles of impeachment are narrowly written. I think
Giuliani's defense is -- is laughable. So this, again, opens the door. And
I think this really could happen.
But to your point about unity, you know, unity, I think, is an
acknowledgment, the desire for Biden to heal, acknowledgment most Trump
voters did not participate in this insurrection. And so Biden is reaching
out to them.
But you cannot use healing as an excuse for people to pursue anarchy and
violence and threaten the stability of our country. That kind of behavior
can't be excused and shouldn't be normalized even as we try to heal.
WALLACE: Meanwhile, President Trump is not going quietly.
Here he is this week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The impeachment hoax is a
continuation of the greatest and most vicious witch hunt in the history of
our country. And it's causing tremendous anger and division and pain far
greater than most people will ever understand.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: A new poll came out this week on the job approval rating people
give President Trump after the riot on January 6th. And let's take a look
at the numbers.
Only 29 percent of Americans now approve of the job that Mr. Trump is
doing. That's by far the lowest rating of this presidency. And among
Republicans, approval of Mr. Trump has dropped from 77 percent in August to
60 percent now.
Kristen, as our polling expert, how bad are those numbers? How toxic is
Donald Trump now in American politics?
KRISTEN SOLTIS ANDERSON, ECHELON INSIGHTS, "WASHINGTON EXAMINER" AND FOX
NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Those numbers are not the way you want to leave the
presidency. It really reflects a legacy that is not going to be remembered
for the things that many of -- of Trump's senior staff were hoping to -- to
go out and -- and be remembered for.
Right now, within the Republican Party, I think that decline in his job
approval among Republicans is so fascinating because it's an open question
how much Donald Trump will be considered a leader of the party moving
forward. In that same poll they asked Americans, do you want Donald Trump
to remain a major figure in American politics? Only 29 percent of Americans
said yes. There's a real, I think, Trump fatigue out there.
And even among Republicans, it was relatively split. I think this is a
party that's going to have to grapple with the fact that it has a base of
supporters who really like Donald Trump. They think that he's done the
right thing since the election. They think that he was wronged. And a
broader voter base. And, by the way, that's for the folks for -- in the
Senate, who they'll be very responsive to because they don't have sort of
gerrymandered or safe districts in most cases who are just ready for Trump
to be gone and off the scene.
WALLACE: Well, that raises the -- the big question that I asked Asa
Hutchinson, Karl, which is, where does the Republican Party go from here?
And is there a place for Donald Trump in the GOP in coming years?
ROVE: Well, the Republican Party is broken, it's fractured, it's in the
midst of a civil war and it's going to be an ugly several years. And it's
not going to be six month. It's not going to be a year. It's going to be
years before the Republican Party can put itself back together. It needs to
rebuild. It needs to find a way to take the traditional Republican
coalition and -- and bring in and keep as much of the Trump voters, the
ordinary voters who cared about him taking on the establishment and taking
on the elites on the East and West Coast.
But the Republican Party, let's not kid ourselves, it is in the midst of a
civil war. When you have the son of the president of the United States
calling anyone who opposes his -- his father a zero and -- and promising to
come after you in a primary, this ain't going to end quickly and it ain't
going to be pretty. And the Republican Party needs to find a way to return
to its conservative roots and to update those principles and apply them to
the new circumstances in which the country finds itself. But it needs to
get beyond Donald Trump. And that ain't going to be easy because he's not
going to want to retire and -- and sit on the sidelines.
WALLACE: Kristen, as a Republican pollster, let me pick up on that with
you.
How do you see this split between traditional Republicans and Trump
Republicans? Can they find a way to work together? There are a lot of
issues that unite them. There are some that divide them. So can they get
back to a unified GOP or is there going to be a split? And is there a place
for -- for Donald Trump in that party?
ANDERSON: I think there's a possibility of -- of healing and unity over
time, but I -- I think it's going to be hard to get there. Within the
party, before the election, the data that I was seeing showed that more
Republican voters thought of themselves as Trump voters first and
Republicans second. But since the election that's changed. It's now a bit
more split. About half of Republicans I survey see themselves as Trump
supporter's first but half see themselves as Republicans first.
And I think there's a -- a middle ground among the party. You've got a
strong base of supporters who think the president was wronged. He hasn't
done anything inappropriate since the election. They think he's great. And
you have about a quarter of Republicans who want Trump gone. They -- they
think it's time to turn the page. But about 46 percent or so of the party
lands somewhere in the middle. They don't love his conduct since the
election, they think maybe it was stolen from him nonetheless, they think
that he was not necessarily responsible for the rally -- or rather for the
insurrection, but they -- they'd like the party to move on. They hold some
sort of mix of views. And I think finding those folks who say, look, I
think Trump did some good things but maybe can we do good things without
Trump's style, without his rhetoric, without, as I think Governor
Hutchinson called, the cult of personality. I think that's going to be the
way that the Republican Party has to move forward because right now they
can't win with Trump but they can't win without Trump.
WALLACE: Right.
And -- and -- and 30 seconds, Juan, as somebody who leans to the left, is
this disarray on the right just catnip for you?
WILLIAMS: No, I think this is very serious business. Picking up on what
Karl said, you see an American party in disarray and we need a second party
here. We need the Republicans. But I think Mitch McConnell, Liz Cheney,
they're not fringe people but they need to confront the radical wing of the
Republican Party.
WALLACE: Thank you, panel. See you next Sunday.
Up next, we'll discuss the reach of big tech with our "Power Player of the
Week," the chief executive of Apple, Tim Cook.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WALLACE: It was an unenviable task, filling the shoes of legendary Apple
cofounder Steve Jobs. But this week's "Power Player" stepped in and
exceeded all expectations. Now he's guiding the tech giant through a new
era of scrutiny over how its tools can be used for good or ill.
Here's our "Power Player of the Week."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TIM COOK, CEO, APPLE: It was one of the saddest moments of my life, seeing
an attack on our Capitol, an attack on our democracy.
WALLACE (voice over): Apple's CEO Tim Cook on the horror of watching
rioters breach the U.S. Capitol last week.
COOK: I felt like I was in some sort of alternate reality, to be honest
with you. This could not be happening.
WALLACE: In the aftermath, big tech companies scrambled to purge violent
rhetoric. Twitter band President Trump, cutting off his favorite link to
supporters.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They're dividing and divisive
and they're showing something that I've been predicting for a long time.
I think big tech has made a terrible mistake and very, very bad for a
country.
COOK: Big tech is not monolithic. You know, there are several companies,
they do different things. For us, we're always trying to do the right
thing.
WALLACE: Cook decided the right thing for Apple was to suspend the
conservative leaning social media platform Parler from its app store due to
some users' violent posts.
WALLACE (on camera): Isn't big tech restricting speech?
COOK: We have an app store that has about 2 million apps in it and we have
terms of service for these apps.
We, obviously, don't control what's on the Internet, but we've never viewed
that our platform should be a simple replication of the Internet.
We have rules and regulations and we just ask that people abide by those.
WALLACE: How did you decide to balance free speech with objectionable
content?
COOK: We looked at the incitement to violence that was on their and we --
we don't consider that free speech and incitement to violence has an
intersection.
WALLACE: What about the argument that by taking Parler off Apple, in
addition to what other companies are doing, that you're just driving these
people, these views, further underground?
COOK: Well, we've only suspended them, Chris. And so if -- if they get
their moderation together, they would be back on there.
WALLACE (voice over): Cook came on FOX NEWS SUNDAY this week to talk about
Apple's $100 million Racial Equity and Justice Initiative.
COOK: So what this initiative is about is about opportunity and about
giving communities of color opportunity. And we could not be more excited
about its potential.
WALLACE (on camera): Is there something particular about race that puts it
at the top of Apple's agenda right now?
COOK: Last year with the murder of George Floyd, it brought an urgency to
this.
We are thrilled to be able to sort of do our part here and -- and we hope
that more people will follow.
WALLACE (voice over): As part of its initiative, Apple is helping launch
the Propel Center in Atlanta for historically black colleges and
universities, offering programs in everything from artificial intelligence
to agriculture technologies and entertainment.
COOK: We hope to make the Propel Center and innovation hub that serves all
of the HBCUs, but becomes a source of information and a source of
inspiration for the entire footprint of HBCUs.
WALLACE: Apple is also launching the developer academy in Detroit to teach
computer coding.
COOK: Coding is a -- is the most important second language you can learn.
It's the only global language. And so we see the power of people learning
to code and then designing apps and running their own businesses.
WALLACE (on camera): How transformative do you think this initiative can
be?
COOK: I think it can be extremely transformative. I think it can make a big
difference in people's lives. And that's the reason we're so excited about
it.
WALLACE (voice over): Cook grew up in Alabama in the 1960s and '70s.
WALLACE (on camera): Did you see racism?
COOK: Of course. The systemic racism has been something that has been
across our country for the length of time that we've been a country.
WALLACE: Do you remember a first time when you thought to yourself, in your
daily life, this is wrong?
COOK: I remember periods of time, Chris, where whether you were in high
school or college or -- or beyond where you look around and there are only
white people around. And whether it's a college or a university or a
graduate school, it doesn't feel right. And so -- and so you ask your --
why is this? And I think it's the absence of opportunity. It goes back to
that. And so what we're trying to do with this program is give people the
opportunity.
WALLACE (voice over): Cook made the leap to Apple and the '90s, helping it
turn profits when tech experts thought its best days were behind it.
STEVE JOBS, FORMER CEO OF APPLE: Today, Apple is going to reinvent the
phone.
WALLACE: A decade later, Steve Jobs introduced the iPhone, reinventing
personal communication and making Apple part of daily life.
Cook took over when Jobs passed away from cancer.
WALLACE (on camera): When you succeeded Steve Jobs back in 2011, how
daunting was that?
COOK: My focus then was on mourning, was on mourning and leading the
company through a very, very hard period of time. And so I wasn't really
thinking about how daunting it was.
WALLACE (voice over): Under Cook's leadership, Apple reimagined the watch,
the first entirely new product of his era. But he sees his role in broader
terms.
WALLACE (on camera): What are you proudest of in steering Apple over this
past decade?
COOK: I'm -- I'm proudest that we've kept his DNA at the core of the
company. And that the company has stayed focused on innovation and making
really great products that empower people and enrich their lives.
WALLACE: What's next for Apple? What's next for Tim Cook?
COOK: I love every day here. It's a privilege of a lifetime to -- to work
with the people I get to work with. I -- it's hard for me to envision my
life without Apple.
What's next for Apple? We're going to continue making the best products in
the world. Not the most, but -- but the best.
WALLACE: Does that include an Apple car?
COOK: Well, I can't comment on -- on -- on rumors and so forth.
WALLACE: Well, you can. You may choose not to, but you certainly -- you're
the boss.
COOK: You're right. I choose not to. Touche.
WALLACE (voice over): Today, Apple is the world's most valuable company,
but Cook says its continued success hinges on Apple's core values.
COOK: We would like to use our platform to -- to help solve some of the
country's biggest issues. We always have seen a company as having a bigger
role than -- than merely making money, but really also making a difference.
That's what drives me and gets me up in the morning and -- and gets me to
keep coming to work.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WALLACE: In 2020, Apple's share price surged more than 80 percent.
And we'll be right back with a final word.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WALLACE: Before we go, this program note. I'll see you along with the new
Fox daytime lineup this Wednesday for the inauguration of Joe Biden on Fox
News Channel.
And that's it for today. Have a great week and we'll see you next FOX NEWS
SUNDAY.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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