House Republicans demand transparency from Democrats' impeachment inquiry

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House Republicans demand transparency from Democrats' impeachment inquiry

GOP lawmakers take issue with secretive proceedings; reaction and analysis from the 'Special Report' All-Stars.

This is a rush transcript from "Special Report," October 23, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MATT GAETZ, R-FLA.: Behind those doors they intend to overturn the results of an American presidential election. We want to know what's going on.

REP. TED LIEU, D-CALIF.: They are trying to be disruptive because the facts are not on their side. The law is not on their side.

REP. MARK MEADOWS, R-N.C.: The fundamental question is a question of fairness, and especially on the most important vote that many members will take.

REP. ERIC SWALWELL, D-CALIF.: They are doing this because this is what the guilty do. Innocent people cooperate with investigations. Innocent people follow the rules of the House. People who are doing this are clearly doing it at the behest of the president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRET BAIER, ANCHOR: Dramatic images up on Capitol Hill today as House Republicans, I guess, took the advice of President Trump and decided to step up, and in this case tried to get into a hearing where there was a deposition of a deputy assistant secretary of defense, Laura Cooper, first career official to testify from the Pentagon. The DOD had tried to block Cooper from appearing before the deposition. The House Intel Committee issued a subpoena. She complied to testify. She had assumed responsibility for policy concerning Russia, Ukraine, Eurasia, and western Balkans.

But the scene was these Republicans storming in, causing a big scene on Capitol Hill today. Let's bring in our panel, "Washington Post" columnist Marc Thiessen, Mara Liasson, national political correspondent for National Public Radio, Susan Ferrechio, Chief Congressional Correspondent for the "Washington Examiner," and Steve Hayes, editor of "The Dispatch."

Susan, first to you. The scene today kind of a little different up on Capitol Hill.

SUSAN FERRECHIO, "WASHINGTON EXAMINER": Right, although I will argue the case here that there has been building discontent. I'm not sure Trump is really behind all this. Republicans have become increasingly frustrated with being shut out of the process. Today you had a witness testify about spending security aid, an employee of the Defense Department, the assistant secretary, yet members of the Armed Service Committee were not in there. In fact they don't have access to the transcripts in this instance.

Now, this was a deposition, so the Democrats argue all depositions are handled this way. But the overarching argument against that is this is about the impeachment of the president of the United States. So you pull back the scope a little bit and look at it and say, why shouldn't this be open to the press? Why shouldn't it be open to the public? That is the case Republicans are making today, and they have been getting increasingly upset about it as the weeks have gone on and witness after witness has come and gone from the Capitol without any of them hearing it.

BAIER: What about that argument, Marc? Is that a powerful argument for Republicans to make? It's a process argument that is made in Washington, but there is substance that is being leaked out, but we are not really seeing the Q and A part of some of these depositions.

MARC THIESSEN, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: Americans care about fairness, so if the process is not fair, then of course it's an effective argument. Swalwell was just quoted on your show saying that guilty people don't behave this way. People who are interested in an impartial investigation aimed at finding the truth don't behave the way the Democrats are doing. And just in that example, they room they were storming the room was a SCIF, a secure compartmented facility that is designed for accepting classified information. Yesterday Bill Taylor testified there, and his testimony was leaked as cell phone photographs of his testimony out of this secure compartmented facility. It's ridiculous.

And on top of that, the Democrats criticized Donald Trump for putting the Zelensky transcript on a secure server that was reserved for highly classified information, yet they are using a secure compartmented facility to prevent people from being able to get access to the information that is being given in the deposition. It is total hypocrisy.

BAIER: Which is unclassified, we should point out.

THIESSEN: Yes, most of it is not classified. So why are they doing it in a SCIF? Have it in a hearing room.

BAIER: Mara, "The New York Times" had a story, "Ukraine knew of aid freeze by early August, undermining President Trump defense. In fact," the story says, "word of the aid freeze to the Ukrainians had gotten to high-level Ukrainian officials by the first week in August, according to interviews and documents obtained by "The New York Times." The problem was not a bureaucratic glitch. The Ukrainians were told then to address it they were advised the should reach out to Mick Mulvaney, the acting White House chief of staff, according to the interviews and records."

Here is John Ratcliffe with Martha last night about testimony.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN RATCLIFFE, R-TX: The mainstream media reporting that he provided evidence of a quid pro quo involving military aid is false. I questioned him directly on that, and neither he nor any other witness has provided testimony that the Ukrainians were aware that military aid was being withheld. You can't have a quid pro quo with no quo.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BAIER: Talking there about -- Mara?

MARA LIASSON, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, NATIONAL PUBLIC RADIO: You would have to interview some Ukrainians, because we've gotten a whole bunch of different stories on the timeline here. We've heard in some of the text exchanges that the Ukrainians read about the hold on the aid from a story in "Politico" and they got nervous. They reached out, what is happening. Here we are being told that they learned about it many weeks earlier. And this is something that probably has to be nailed down, because one of the defenses that the Republicans have offered is how can it be a quid pro quo if the Ukrainians didn't know that the aid was being held up?

But one other point I want to make, there were Republicans inside that SCIF today, Republicans from the key committees. It's not like there were no Republicans. I'm not saying that they don't have a good argument that things should be more transparent and out in the public, but Republicans were not excluded from that deposition.

BAIER: Yes. It is just important to point out that we are talking timeline. Even if you say "The New York Times" is completely accurate, it is still August after the July call.

LIASSON: Right. After the call. After the call.

BAIER: And then the aid does flow when it is supposed to flow in September. OK, Steve, your thoughts on this story?

STEVE HAYES, CONTRIBUTOR: I think it would be better for everybody if Democrats weren't handling this in such a partisan fashion, but that's not to say that Republicans haven't done similar things in the past. I remember when I was reporting extensively on Benghazi, there were meetings between senior Republican members of the House, including Speaker John Boehner, with the Benghazi whistleblowers at the time. I thought those meetings were necessary because the Benghazi whistleblowers were being thwarted at the CIA and trying to report up through those channels. It was important that those meetings took place, and I think a lot of good -- we learned a lot more about what happened in Benghazi because they were eventually heard. Similar things happened with the Benghazi special committee in terms of depositions and hearings that were done not in the public eye.

If it were my choice, if I had to do it, I would say let's do this all out in the open. Let's make everybody aware of what is going on, and let's listen to this in real time. But it is understandable why the process wouldn't unfold that way for exactly the same reason that Republicans were arguing just a few short years ago.

BAIER: Quickly, the lynching focus and all of the talk about the president's tweet and the reaction to it. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN, D-MASS., PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What Donald Trump has said about lynching is despicable.

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS, D-CALIF., PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: How dare he? How dare he? And yet again, it is an example of Donald Trump having no appreciation for the history of this nation.

JOE BIDEN, D-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Even if the president should be impeached, history is going to question whether or not this was just a partisan lynching.

HARRIS: I think he has spoken for himself. I think that that's right for him to apologize.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BAIER: History, Susan, also has videotape of Joe Biden.

(LAUGHTER)

FERRECHIO: That's right. And I think both parties should remember, C-Span has got a full archive. As soon that comment was made, they started replaying video from 20 years ago, members of the Congressional Black Caucus coming to the floor of the House and calling the impeachment proceeding against President Clinton a lynching.

BAIER: And so Mara, what does this do to that whole moment?

LIASSON: I feel the same way about lynching as I do about calling people Nazis or comparing something, or concentration camps. Can we just leave some of those terms alone and go forward without them? That would be better.

BAIER: OK, sounds good.

(LAUGHTER)

BAIER: Next up, President Trump touts what he calls a permanent ceasefire between Turkey and the Syrian Kurds.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT: The government of Turkey informed my administration that they would be stopping combat and their offensive in Syria, and making the ceasefire permanent. And it will indeed be permanent. However, you would also define the word "permanent" in that part of the world as somewhat questionable. We all understand that. But I do believe it will be permanent. I have therefore instructed the secretary of the treasury to lift all sanctions imposed on October 14th. We reserve the right to reimpose crippling sanctions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BAIER: President Trump making a statement about what he called a permanent ceasefire, Turkey withdrawing from this area as far as the attacks go. The Kurds leaving the safe zone, if you put up a map between Syria and Turkey.

And meantime, there is some pushback, as you can imagine, on Capitol Hill. There is always on big foreign policy issues. This is Senator Jack Reed, "President Trump's claim that he achieved a great outcome in Syria is misleading and delusional. The Trump administration seems content to cede our interests in the Middle East to Putin and Assad, while having no stabilize Syria or to ensure the enduring defeat of ISIS." Senator Reed.

Back with the panel, Marc Thiessen, your thoughts on this announcement by the president today?

THIESSEN: Jack Reed is 100 percent correct. You don't get to set a fire, then call in the fire brigade and then get credit for having put out the fire. And in fact, the fire is not put out. "The New York Times" just reported this week that the Kurdish, the Kurds, the Syrian Defense Forces, has been carrying out up to two dozen counterterrorism raids every day. And those raids have stopped. The U.S. officials on the ground have reported that they're not getting intelligence on ISIS anymore. The State Department confirmed that there's at least 100 ISIS prisoners who are not accounted for and we don't know where they are. This is just an absolute disaster. And there is no putting a good spin on it.

And the problem also is that the president says we want to have Turkey to be responsible. It's Turkey's turn to take care of ISIS. Turkey was helping ISIS during the campaign when we and the Kurds were fighting them. There is video of the Turks allowing ISIS fighters to go over the Turkish borders to outflank the Kurdish fighters in the city of Kobane. They were giving them arms, they were giving them medical treatment. The Turkish interior minister last week said we want to come to an agreement with ISIS. That's not U.S. foreign policy. So this is an absolute disaster. Trump gets no credit for trying to put this together again.

BAIER: The president's supporters up on Capitol Hill, obviously in the administration, point to the head of the Syrian Kurds, the defense forces, General Mazloum and the tweets he sent out, "I just spoke with President Trump, explained to him the Turkish violations of the truce that would not have been possible without his great efforts. We thank President Trump for his tireless efforts that stopped the brutal Turkish attack and jihadist groups on our people. President Trump promised to maintain partnership with SDF and long-term support at various spheres." Obviously, they are saying what they want to say for the diplomatic purposes, but they are pointing to that, saying they have a relationship with the SDF.

LIASSON: What else can they say at this point? The rug has been pulled out from under them, they are being removed from this area where they have established a pretty stable mini state. And they have to hope that the U.S. is going to be somehow friendly to them in some manner in the future.

BAIER: Susan?

FERRECHIO: I think we are sort of in a watch and wait period right now. And I am also watching Congress, because they are planning to put forward legislation that would sanction Turkey, and with an eye on how all this turns out in the weeks ahead. And then the Senate would possibly take up those sanctions, too, thus putting themselves in opposition to the president, a lot more pressure on the president, who we just heard say he can reimpose these sanctions.

This is not over. This could turn out to be a big disaster, as Marc said, for the president on national security. However, he campaigned on getting the troops out of conflict in the Middle East. And I vividly remember six years ago talking to Democrats about putting these troops in Syria, and they were wholly opposed to it, and about how long this would drag on for and getting us mired in this endless conflict, which it was turning out to be in the Middle East. So a real risk the president is taking with maybe a slim chance of victory. But if he does succeed, he'll look like a genius.

BAIER: Steve, no matter where you sit, it does bring up the question of an authorization of military force that Congress has not renewed since 9/11. Bernie Sanders brought that up about putting troops back in to into guard oilfields in Syria. What about the prospect of Congress doing another AUMF?

HAYES: I think that prospect of Congress doing another AUMF is very slim, particularly because the president has made his feelings known about this. I think the problem with the president's statement there is both suggesting that this is likely to be a permanent ceasefire, he was wise I think to caveat that a little bit, but unwise then to make a bet that this would be a permanent ceasefire. I think a lot of people who know the region well would suggest it hasn't been a very good ceasefire thus far and is likely to fall apart in the near-term future.

And the second problem with the statement was that even if this is permanent, this is not an arrangement that accrues the benefit of the United States of America for the reasons that Marc laid out. You have a stronger Iran, you have a stronger Bashar al-Assad. You have a much stronger Vladimir Putin. We have ceded our hand in this region in ways I think we'll be paying for for decades to come.

BAIER: Mara, can they sell an upside in the middle of the country in a campaign?

LIASSON: Oh, can the Trump administration sell an upside? Absolutely. A lot of Trump's base, a lot of American voters in general don't think we should be in the Middle East. They want troops home. The Democratic candidates have been saying the same thing. Let's get out of the Middle East. The president made it really clear today, what did he say, this is just a bunch of bloodstained sand. We have no national security interests in the Middle East. That's what he thinks.

BAIER: We will see how it plays out in coming weeks and months. Panel, thank you.

When we come back, Halloween decorations, Halloween is just around the corner, decorations taken to a whole new level.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BAIER: Finally tonight, taking Halloween decorations to a whole new level.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BAIER: Tom BetGeorge, a professional lightshow maker known for his creative Halloween display at his home in Tracy, California. BetGeorge has been posting videos of his home since 2007. He is putting on displays to raise money for the McHenry House, a local family shelter. Can you imagine living next to this guy? I don't know if I can. But BetGeorge says his neighbors have been supportive of the bright lights. That might get old fast.

Thanks for inviting us into your home tonight. That's it for the “Special Report,” fair, balanced, and unafraid.

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