This is a rush transcript from "The Story," November 6, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MARTHA MACCALLUM, HOST: A lot of new information there this evening as we continue to move through this unbelievably awful story that unfolded in a Baptist church in a small town in Texas over the weekend. Fox's Matt Finn is in Sutherland Springs Texas to wrap up what we learned here and what we have learned so far tonight in this story. Good evening, Matt.
MATT FINN, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Martha, what we just learned according to authorities, that there was an autopsy performed on the shooter and that the shooter sustained three gunshot wounds, one to the head, which the medical examiner said was self-inflicted. You heard authorities there not choosing to name the shooter, they say they do not want to glorify him.
And that Devon Kelley, the shooter, purchased four guns, and that all of those purchases were done properly with background checks, and that there was no information in any national system that would have prevented the shooter from purchasing the guns. Which makes sense with some of the information we learned just a short while ago, which is at the U.S. Air Force did not report the shooter's criminal records to the FBI as required by Pentagon rules. Potentially making it much easier for the shooter to pass background checks and purchase these guns.
Late today a sporting goods store in San Antonio release statement, Academy Sports, saying that it has sold a gun to the shooter in 2016 and 2017, and that there he passed all the criminal background checks, which raises a lot of questions as to why he was allowed to get his hands on these guns. We understand that Kelley, the shooter, was discharged from the U.S. Air force for bad behavior. He was court-martialed and ultimately in prison for beating his wife and child, reportedly admitting to intentionally beating his child, so he was discharged from the U.S. Air Force. So, a lot of questions tonight, Martha, why this man, who's being described as a monster, was able to get his hands on these guns that killed at least 26 innocent people in this church behind me. Martha.
MACCALLUM: Right you are, Matt, a lot of questions about how he was able to get his hands on those guns given his criminal background. That is supposed to be prevented by having a criminal record. So, Matt, thank you very much.
We're going to talk about that part of the story in just a moment, but first, in terms of this horrific shooting and what it has done to this town of Sutherland Springs, Texas, is absolutely unfathomable. You have eight people who were all across three generations of one family who were killed inside that Baptist Church. Brian, his wife Carla, their son Danny, Noah, Danny's 17-month-old daughter. Crystal, the pregnant wife of another one of Brian and Carla's sons, and three of Crystal's five children, Emily, Megan, and Greg.
Joining me now is David Gilbler, he is a family friend of the Holcombes and he started a GoFundMe page to raise money for the family to help them deal with the funerals and with the future. David, I cannot imagine -- you look at that picture of that absolutely beautiful family and the remaining members of that family who have to deal with this unfathomable loss. Tell us about these people.
DAVID GILBLER, FAMILY FRIEND OF THE HOLCOMBES: Well, I want you to know that John is a stand-up solid guy. And I worked with him in the late '90s. I'm an engineer, and John is an I.T. Guy, and he gave us tremendous support at the firms that we worked at together here in San Antonio. And after we went in different directions, we kept in touch. John is a man of faith. He is motivated in everything that he does by what he believes. He seeks to love God and love people with every single thing that he does.
And John found a wonderful woman to marry, Crystal. Crystal was a widow with five children. And John married Crystal and took her children as if they were his own and he has always loved them and cherish them as though they were his blood. And now, John and Crystal were expecting their first child together and this tragedy has just brought a bitter, bitter end to that. So, John is one of those guys that you don't meet very many of that kind of person. They're solid, you rely on them, and we need people like John and his family in this country. They are the salt that preserves us.
MACCALLUM: So, there's a GoFundMe page. I mean, I know people are listening to you, and they just want to help. How did they do that?
GILBLER: Well, we set up a GoFundMe page. It's at GoFundMe.com and it's an extension that's something like John Holcombe family funeral expenses. John has nine, eight or nine people to bury and his family all at once. Not only is he staggering under the emotional reality of what's happened, but now he's got to come up with funeral expenses, so we are trying to raise $72,000 to help John with those tragic expenses.
MACCALLUM: It's true that you're a good friend in this time of need, and we will all keep his family in our thoughts and prayers, and it almost sounds cliche to say that after all of the shootings that we watch, but it is something that everyone can do, and we do that and we also will do -- will help financially as well and we hope other people will do that. David, thank you very much for the tribute to your friend and his family tonight, and we thank you for being here.
GILBLER: Thank you, a real privilege to be with you.
MACCALLUM: You bet. Thank you, sir. So, here now with more on this story, Mark Fuhrman, a former LAPD Detective and a Fox News Contributor. Candice DeLong, a former FBI Agent, and Criminal Profiler. She is now the Host of "Investigative Discoveries Deadly Women." Good to have you both with us tonight. And I'm sad that it's on -- another one of these unfathomable killings, and I think people want to know how we can stop this.
You know, Candice, let me start with you because you hear his profile, he assaulted children, he split open the skull of his stepson. He assaulted animals, he assaulted his wife. This man was a powder keg and unfortunately -- we're going to get to the gun issue with Mark Fuhrman in just a moment. Somehow, he was able to get his hands on -- you know, we know he had the motive and he could have done it a number of ways, but he was able to get his hands on some machinery that helped him mow down those people in just a few minutes. Candice, tell me what you think about this man.
CANDICE DELONG, FORMER AGENT AND CRIMINAL PROFILER FOR THE FBI: I'm sorry.
MACCALLUM: That's OK.
DELONG: Well, it looks like he's a hothead whose answer to solving any problem he had was violence. And anybody that would cause a skull fracture in a child and starve his own dog and beat the dog just doesn't belong in our society. The motivation, I will speculate, that it does certainly look like part revenge and part just venting his anger, rage, for whatever it was that was bothering him. Chances are he's been a brute and a bully his entire life and he likes to dominate other people through violence.
MACCALLUM: You know, Mark, when you hear this information about the air force, discharging him, then court-martial in him. Then, he spent, I think, about 21 months in prison for these assault charges to a woman, and to a young baby. How is it that that information isn't passed along to the FBI?
MARK FUHRMAN, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR AND FORMER LAPD DETECTIVE: Well, Martha, I think it's supposed to be passed along, but the Department of Defense, sometimes those things get dropped in between two federal agencies. I don't think anybody would find that surprising. But I think in the wake of this tragedy, I think there should be some due diligence that you have a check and balance on the military and the Department of Defense and the Federal NCIC Systems so this never happens again.
MACCALLUM: You say, people wouldn't find it surprising, I find it extremely surprising. I mean, you know, when you let someone out into the public, they've been discharged and they spent time in prison for assaulting a baby and a woman, why would it not be part of their discharge to make sure that they are put into those databases? In other words, what are the databases for if not to prevent someone like this from getting their hands on a weapon that he took a picture of on his couch, and called it a name that starts with a "B". He was so excited to have this gun.
FUHRMAN: Well, I agree with you, Martha, I think it should go farther than that, and I believe Candice would probably agree. I think any domestic violence should be a felony when you have a man that is of superior size and strength that abuses, hits, strikes a woman or a child, it should be a felony, and there should be mandatory and immediate psychological screening of that person. I mean, this person in this shooting had a mental defect that was so severe he murdered 26 people just because he was angry with his in-laws, or supposedly he was angry with his in-laws. This is a violent man that should not be out among us that is beating women and children, and then because of that he is out and he's able to do the shooting.
MACCALLUM: It's horrific and our system obviously does not work. This is very different than what we saw in Las Vegas. There were a lot of markers for this man, as Candice points out. And as we know from his criminal background, it's just unfathomable, and we need to fix the system. You know, too late for these four-tragic people who lost their entire family and the other people there as well, but it doesn't measure up and it's not right. Candice, thank you very much. Mark, good to see you both tonight.
FURHMAN: Thank you.
MACCALLUM: We've got a live update earlier this evening as you saw. So, coming up next, we will get into this:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: The United States of America stands in solidarity with the people of Japan against the North Korean menace.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: President Trump plans to have more talk of the rogue nation. He heads to South Korea in the next few hours. What message will he bring after his talks in Japan? David Bossie and Governor Mike Huckabee with their unique takes on that, and other news in the Trump administration when we come back. And in the span of a weekend, is the Bush-Clinton era over? Two families who dominated American politics for decades, now lashing out at the current political environment. Why their protest may signal a whole new era coming from American voters.
MACCALLUM: Breaking tonight, President Trump set to leave within the hour now for South Korea, which is a crucial part, obviously, of this Asia journey as the threat of a North Korean nuclear strike escalates. It comes after a busy couple of days in Japan with the president alongside our ally took a strong stance against the aggression that is presented by the rogue regime.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The regime continued development of its unlawful weapons programs, including its illegal nuclear tests and outrageous launches of ballistic missiles directly over Japanese territory, are a threat to the civilized world, and international peace and stability. We will not stand for that. The era of strategic patience is over.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Chief White House Correspondent John Roberts live in Seoul, South Korea where the president is expected to land just a few hours from now. Hi, John!
JOHN ROBERTS, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Martha, Good morning to you from Seoul, South Korea. The president left his hotel in Tokyo just a short time ago. He headed for the Yokota Air Force Base; he's supposed to arrive here in about three hours' time. The first order of business when he gets here to South Korea will be to visit many of the 37,500 troops that are stationed here in South Korea at Camp Humphreys. One place that the president will not be going during his visit here, though, is the Demilitarized Zone because there wasn't time to go to Camp Humphreys and the DMZ.
So, they though talking to the troops of Camp Humphreys, the better way to go. President got a big show of support, as you mentioned, from the Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe yesterday in Tokyo, despite the fact that the president has been roundly criticized for using fiery rhetoric against North Korea. Abe said, yesterday at a press conference, it was early in the morning New York time, that he is 100 percent behind President Trump. Listen here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHINZO ABE, PRIME MINISTER OF JAPAN (through translator): Japan, consistently supports the position of President Trump when he says that all options are on the table
TRUMP: Some people said that my rhetoric is very strong, but look what's happened with very weak rhetoric over the last 25 years. Look at where we are right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: And the president, striking an optimistic tone ahead of his meetings with South Korean President Moon Jae-in, later on, today. The president, tweeting early this morning from Tokyo that Noon is a "fine gentleman, and that we will figure it all out." But Moon, who has to live in the neighborhood with both North Korea and China, he's got his own concerns.
Recently, you saw the contentions in a dispute with China over the U.S. THAAD anti-missile system that is stationed here in South Korea. He's also going to meet with Xi Jinping on the sidelines of the APEC Summit in Da Nang, Vietnam later on this week. Certainly, Xi Jinping would like nothing better than to kind of get in the middle of the friendship between the United States and South Korea.
Moon Jae-in also tried to ratchet down tensions with the hermit kingdom, inviting North Korea to participate in next year's Winter Olympics here in South Korea. And while the president and President Moon Jae-in do see eye to eye in a lot of aspects of what to do about North Korea, there's one area where President Trump is not very happy with the current status of relationship with South Korea, and that is over trade.
The president thinks that trade between the United States and North Korea is neither free nor fair, nor reciprocal. He's upset with the Korea-U.S. Free Trade Agreement; he's threatened to rip it up. So, that could be a point of tension between these two leaders when they meet here in South Korea. Martha.
MACCALLUM: And he could. John, thank you very much from Seoul, South Korea, tonight or this morning there.
ROBERTS: Thank you.
MACCALLUM: David Bossie with Trump's 2016 Deputy Campaign Manager and he is with President of Citizens United, I should say, and Mike Huckabee is former Governor of Arkansas, both are Fox News Contributors. Gentlement, welcome, great to have both of you with me tonight. You know, Governor Huckabee, let me start with you. The president I think hit the nail on the head when he said that rhetoric has been weak over the last 25 years, and it hasn't worked. I mean, that's a very quantifiable way of looking at it in terms of how aggressive North Korea has become during that time frame, you could add Iran to that list as well. What does he need to do as he moves through this trip?
MIKE HUCKABEE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR AND FORMER GOVERNOR OF ARKANSAS: I think he's doing it, Martha. You know, he didn't bring James Taylor over to sing "You've Got a Friend" when he visits Japan or South Korea because he doesn't have to. He's showing that the U.S. is the friend, the friend that will stand up against the bully of North Korea, and it will also stand up to China and tell them, look, we not only have military power, but we know what to do with it if we have to use it. That is not a message that is commonly heard by either North Korea or China, certainly not during the eight years of the Obama administration, when most of the time we were issuing apologies and we were backpedaling.
This is a strategically important trip. I think the president is doing it in the order, intentionally going to Japan, South Korea, and then the rest of Asia. But the message is not just to the North Koreans. The message is to our friends, we're with you. But it's also to those, either direct adversaries, or those that could be China and North Korea, and say don't mess with us because Donald Trump is saying I've got a big boot and I'll put it in your butt if you mess with the United States.
MACCALLUM: Such a uniquely Governor Huckabee way of putting it. And for those of you who might forget after the horrific killings at Bataclan in France, John Kerry decided that it would be a good idea to send James Taylor to France to sing "You've Got a Friend," and that's what the governor was referencing as well. David Bossie, your thoughts on this?
DAVID BOSSIE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR AND FORMER DEPUTY CAMPAIGN MANAGER TO THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN: Well, I think the governor's exactly right. The president's doing this trip exactly the right way so far. It's been a very good trip to Japan. The Reagan style of peace through strength is really what we're seeing here. We are going back to peace through strength, which is what won us the Cold War, without firing a single shot. And that's what the American people need to hear, and that's what world is now hearing.
This president so cherishes the men and women in uniform and their blood -- and a treasure that we have to spend and expand when we fight wars. We don't want to do that, he does not want to do that. So, peace through strength is really, so far, you know, his way of telling his enemies there's going to be repercussions.
MACCALLUM: Governor, just quickly before we go. Here at home, the Trump administration is facing questions about Wilbur Ross, whether or not his businesses had ties to the Putin government, the Russia investigation continues apace, I guess. You know we wait for, you know, whatever the substances of that. You know, how does the president handle this trip while all of that's going on back at home.
HUCKABEE: I don't think he deals with equalities overseas; he's got plenty on his plate. All of these are legitimate questions, they certainly deserve to be asked and answered. And they will be, but you got to remember, Wilbur Ross has already been through a very thorough vetting process both in the Trump organization, and then through the senate confirmation. So, yes, all these questions are legitimate. They should be asked, but I don't think they're going to result in any big change in confidence that he has in the commerce secretary.
MACCALLUM: All right. To be continued. David Bossie, thank you very much. Governor Huckabee, great to have both of you with us tonight on a busy night. Good to see you both.
MACCALLUM: So coming up next here, Donna Brazile in her own words on being handcuffed by the Clinton campaign.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONNA BRAZILE, FORMER DNC CHAIR: They told us to shut up and basically let them win the election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: This as the GOP is witnessing a sea change of its own with a bombshell with no book offering an uncensored look at the Bush family. It all begs the question, are the countries two ruling political parties gone as we know them? And as more sexual harassment claims emerge from Hollywood, some women saying it is rife on Capitol Hill as well. Former congresswoman Mary Bono bravely detailing the disturbing sexual harassment that she claim she faced in her time in Washington, and what others -- what she and others are doing to put a stop to it, next, she joins me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JACKIE SPEIER, D-CALIF.: I know what it's like to lie awake in bed at night wondering if I was the one who had done something wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Breaking tonight, new fallout from former DNC chair Donna Brazile bombshell book on the 2016 election. And she has not stopped talking since. She says that less than two months before the election she seriously considered that she might have to replace Hillary Clinton because of her illnesses when she saw her faint at the 9/11 ceremony. Then you got the other side of the aisle, another political dynasty that is seemingly, perhaps, coming to an end because they are not aligned with the GOP president -- presidency of President Trump. And George W. Bush says he fears that he could be the last Republican president. Joining me now, Mark Updegrove, author of that new book, the last Republicans, inside the extraordinary relationship between George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush. Mark, good to have you here tonight. They are extraordinary men and they have given an enormous service to this country in so many ways, from 9/11 all the way back to World War II. But it is interesting, you know, that they are as such reserved people that they are really so outspoken and so against this presidency.
MARK UPDEGROVE, AUTHOR: I want to be clear that the revelations in my book, what they said about Donald Trump in my book was when he was a presidential candidate.
UPDEGROVE: . not when he was president. I think that's important.
MACCALLUM: But they didn't take it back.
UPDEGROVE: They didn't take it back. But by the same token, that's truly how they felt back in 2016. But I think it's very important to note that because they would not be critical of a sitting president. Democrat or Republican. I think they respect the dignity of the office and they wouldn't compromise the president in that way.
MACCALLUM: But, I mean, President Bush has recently spoken out about sort of the tenor of our politics and he spoke in veiled terms. But I think a lot of people interpreted it as a bit of a slam against this. And there's such a hugely different types of people. I think they just great on each other. I think they're like oil and water, right? Or oil and vinegar.
UPDEGROVE: I think the Bushes are emblems of decency, humility, civility, the greater good, and I think that that is very much in contrast in many respects with what we see from Donald Trump.
MACCALLUM: Well, you know, there's the, sort of, other side of it in terms of the economy, in terms of what's happened in the world, and they're also seeing by very conservative members of the Republican Party as big spenders. People who sort of allowed spending to get out of control in Washington. So, you know, politically they're at odds with what GOP voters appear to want now.
UPDEGROVE: I think that's absolutely right. And the Bushes certainly respect the process. And in many ways, the repudiation of the kind of Republicanism that they symbolized and implemented as president. You're absolutely right. But I do think that there are shifts in any party, parties evolve. Just as the country evolves. And in some ways, this party has to define what it is in the Trump era.
MACCALLUM: Very interesting. We look forward to the book. Mark, thank you very much for talking with us tonight, good for have you here.
UPDEGROVE: Thanks for having me.
MACCALLUM: Join now by Charlie Hurt, Washington Times political columnist and Fox News contributor, and Austan Goolsbee, former chief economic advisor to President Obama. Welcome to both of you, good to have you here. Austan, let me start with you on the Democratic side, what you make of this really strong lashing out against the party and against Hillary Clinton by Donna Brazile?
AUSTAN GOOLSBEE, FORMER CHIEF ECONOMIC ADVISOR TO PRESIDENT OBAMA: Yeah. And then you saw the backlash the Clinton people getting mad at Brazile, and Brazile getting mad back at them. Look, I think that what's going on here is the Democrats lost an election that they really felt like they should win, and so everybody is kind of pointing fingers. It was your fault. Well, it wasn't my fault. It was your fault. And I think that's what's playing out here, but I don't totally know.
MACCALLUM: But the Clintons are done, right? They're finished. I mean, I can't imagine how they reemerge after this kind of scuffle, and all of the -- you know, the biography that she wrote, the most recent one, it's been rough for them.
GOOLSBEE: And it seems like it has definitely been rough for Hillary Clinton, especially. But as I say, they want to re-litigate these battles because everybody on the Democratic side kind of look and said what happened, how did we lose this, and especially now that they've seen what President Trump is doing, they're like how could we have not won that election?
MACCALLUM: kind of like what happened?
GOOLSBEE: Somebody must have messed something up.
MACCALLUM: What a great name for a book. Charlie, what do you think about the premise here that we are sort of witnessing and watching the end of these two huge political dynasties that most of us grew up with?
CHARLE HURT, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: I think it's fascinating and marvelous juxtaposition between the two parties. It is very true. And this crack-up that we're seeing in the Democratic Party I think is a long time coming. But I think the reason -- there's been so much focus in the media on the Republican side because Donald Trump came in, there's a pretty spectacular two years of political watching as he sort of routed the Republican establishment and beat more Republicans than he did Democrats. And so -- but there were sort of a steam valve that he was allowed to get through and actually win. And what we didn't realize -- or what we sort of suspected was going on the other side is you had this insurgent in Bernie Sanders who is coming along, and it was the same sort of standoff, but the Clinton machine was so powerful and so connected all across the party that they managed to close that steam valve and now we're looking at a powder keg that I think is going to get much worse for Democrats before it gets better. Largely because of the lack of honesty that's going on.
MACCALLUM: I think George Clooney said something today, I didn't see the whole comment, but bout, you know, there doesn't seem to be any sort of tenable 2020 candidate on the Democrat side. And I wonder what you think, Austan, you know, is this -- you know, if the Clinton dynasty is done, right? If you can sort of put a fork in that moment of history, does the next Democratic candidate look more like Bernie Sanders or more like a Clinton?
GOOLSBEE: Well, I don't know. It might be some third thing. I mean, when Barack Obama ran into 2008, certainly this early, he was not on many people's radar screen outside here of Illinois. I think that the flaw that the DNC had, and the approach of the Clintons that the Democratic Party had was one of anointing. And the Democratic Party has never really been that big on anointing, you know. As Bill Clinton said, the Democratic Party wants to fall in love. So I think they should open the doors, let's have all kinds of different candidates and see who has some talent and who has some skill.
MACCALLUM: Let's see who they can fall in love with.
HURT: And Bill Clinton is very good at falling in love.
MACCALLUM: Oh, my gosh. We'll leave it on that. Charlie, thank you. Austan, thank you very much, we'll see you next time. All right. Coming up next, the new -- the prince of Saudi Arabia has just arrested dozens of other princes and high-ranking officials in Saudi Arabia. They're being held in fancy hotels tonight in Riyadh, under lock and key as he tries to make big changes in the kingdom. He is a fascinating 32-year-old prince. He has decided to let women drive, can you imagine? So what comes next? Because remember, that the Bin Laden -- Osama Bin Laden rose up to fight this kind of change in his own country, so what happens now? Marc Thiessen and James Rosen weigh-in next.
MACCALLUM: Fascinating story tonight, a royal purge in Saudi Arabia as the new crown prince arrested dozens of his fellow princes, and a lot of businessmen, on charges of bribery, extortion, money laundering. And they grounded all the private jets in Riyadh to make sure that people couldn't escape, and then they locked them in at the Riyadh Ritz because that's how they do things in Saudi Arabia. The list includes prominent billionaire investor, Prince Alwaleed bin Talal, who you have seen many times on the business channels as well. He has shares in Twitter, Apple, our parent company, News Corp, among others. He's been the target of President Trump back in December of 2015. Trump tweeted dopey Price Alwaleed Talal wants to control our U.S. politicians with daddy's money. Can't do it when I'm elected. Hashtag, Trump 2016. Marc Thiessen is an American enterprise institute scholar and a Fox News contributor, and James Rosen is our chief Washington correspondent. Gentlemen, thank you. Two very smart gentlemen to talk about this tonight. I know James reported on over the weekend, and Marc is been thinking about it today. What does all this tell you, Marc?
MARC THIESSEN, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, there's a number of things that could be going on, some of them are more generous and interpretations than others. So number one, there could really be corruption. I mean, Saudi Arabia has a lot of corruption going on. So this could actually be what it's said to be, which is a corruption cracked down. It also could be that he's clearing out a bunch of rivals. You saw in other countries, like in China, President Xi Jinping has used corruption charges to clear out his rivals in the Chinese communist party. And the reality is, this is a 32- year-old prince who's allowing women to drive, as you pointed out, who's doing a lot of things, cracking down on extreme clerics, and there's a lot of -- these are the old guard who were resisting him. So it could be that. Or it could also be, quite frankly, a money grab. These are incredibly wealthy people that have been arrested. By some reports, there's half a trillion dollars at stake here in the hands of these, quote, unquote, corrupt Saudi princes that could go to the Saudi treasury. So this could be simply a matter of consolidating money for a country that's not doing all that well economically, right now.
MACCALLUM: James, you point out, you know, besides, sort of, being a face of more moderate policy in Saudi Arabia, he is also loosening up some of the religious rules, to a certain extent. That's a very big deal.
JAMES ROSEN, FOX NEWS CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Yes. This 32-year- old crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman, will, in the not-too-distant future, be the king of Saudi Arabia. His whole family knows that, everyone in the country knows that, and he's gaining strength. What he's trying to do is diversify the kingdom's economic portfolio away from its historical reliance on oil, and as you say, liberalize its laws on relations between the sexes and on tolerance for other religion. Why? Because these two objectives in turn feed into a third more overarching plan, which is called the vision 2030 campaign. It's very ambitious. It's an attempt to position the kingdom in the 21st century. And among its goals is to boost Saudi Arabia's ranking from number 25 on the global competitive index to a slot within the top ten countries. And what really the crown prince is betting here is that demography is destiny. You've got over 100 million people in the Middle East right now who are just around the age of 30. That is an unprecedented youth cohort in the history of the region in the world, and he seems the kingdom's future in a more open brand of Islam.
MACCALLUM: You know, but that can have repercussions, Marc, as we all know. Osama bin Laden fervor really began in anger at his own country, that he felt that it was becoming too liberalized and pulling away from the Wahhabis culture, and that angered him. And so, you know, it built this relationship where the Saudis sort of kept the terrorists at bay on their own country and it exploded in ours and in others. Is there going to be a backlash against this prince?
THIESSEN: There certainly could be. Although the other interpretation of that is, quite frankly, that the Saudi government has been giving a wink and a nod to the Wahhabi clerics whose been preaching this radicalism as long as they weren't focused on Saudi Arabia. As long as it was externally focused, then it was OK. And MBS, as the prince goes by his initials, is cracking down on some of these clerics and saying we're not going to do that anymore. I think Saudi Arabia wants to be a modern country and be a part of the modern world, then it has to -- it can't give a wink and a nod to Wahhabism anymore.
MACCALLUM: Gentlemen, thank you. Fascinating. And it's more to come on that story. We'll take a quick break, and we will be back with more from Capitol Hill tonight, and the Me too campaign.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SPEIER: I know what it's like to lie awake in bed at night wondering if I was the one who had done something wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: That was California Congresswoman Jackie Speier revealing that she had disturbing encounter when she was a congressional staffer. She and others joining the Me too campaign, bringing attention to the issue of sexual harassment in the workplace, including on Capitol Hill. My next guest served in congress with Ms. Speier, and has her own story to share in an exclusive interview this evening with us. Former California congresswoman, Mary Bono is a Republican, good to see you, Mary, welcome to the show tonight.
MARY BONO, FORMER U.S. CONGRESSWOMAN: Thank you.
MACCALLUM: Tell me what happened to you and why you decided to speak out.
BONO: Well, it's very interesting because I didn't actually mean to speak out, I was called by a reporter and she'd heard, sort of, stories way back when about, sort of, sexual harassment happening, so I agreed to speak with her. You know, what's been interesting is that since I did speak out a little bit how many women are coming up to me and thanking me, and these are women from the highest ranks of, you know, corporate world or down to young women who were just beginning their career. A lot of women are just saying, wow, thank you, this really resonates. You know, what's important to me -- what happened to me was very minuscule, it wasn't like the Harvey Weinstein sort of predatory thing, it was some offhanded comments that went on too long and might have been demeaning, but what's important to me is that we give women -- actually anybody who's a victim of sexual harassment, we can empower them with better ways to handle it at the time rather than live for years and years and years to think about it.
MACCALLUM: Yeah. You know, the gist of it is that he talked about wanting to take a shower or something, and it's obviously completely inappropriate talk. But this person is still serving on Capitol Hill, and I know that you do not want to identify him. Why do you make that decision? You feel like it could be helpful if you did point a finger, as so many others have done?
BONO: No. You know, what was important was this talk it sort of happened over and over and over, and finally, one day I said you know what? Knock it off. This is just not appropriate, it's not right and it's not cool. And I served with that member for many years after that and it never happened again, and I think it was sort of eye-opening for him. I think he recognized, you know, it was inappropriate, it was sort of locker room banter, and when you're -- what, 20 percent of the congress are women, I think the guy sort of get -- maybe sometimes too careless, and they just don't recognize that it's demeaning and it may be kind of knocks you down and separates you in the eyes of the other colleagues.
MACCALLUM: I think that's what's so disturbing about it. And it has been said it's not really sexual, it's more like of a put you back in your place, right? Because you're a woman and you have risen up to this position, and this is kind of a guy's club, and we want to make sure you understand where your spot is, right?
BONO: I think to some degree, but I also felt that some men did not know how to actually communicate with a woman other than talking that way. So, you know, again, I don't name names because the people -- you know, I was lucky that it was a teaching moment for me too, that I found my voice to say knock it off, this isn't right. Yeah. So it was a teaching moment for him as well. And if he hadn't changed his behavior, if I was offended for many years after that it might be a different story, but he did, and that is what is important, that people stand up, be empowered, and say enough is enough.
MACCALLUM: Yeah. I mean, you look at the industries that this has spanned, and now, you know, women speaking out on Capitol Hill. There have to be a lot of men who are very worried that one day, one news story could ruin their career, and it's a very real fear in this environment right now. Do you think that this is the moment when a lot of this changes? When we kind of leave this era behind, is that possible?
BONO: Well, you know, yes, if we do it carefully and thoughtfully. Look, there's a huge extreme between the Harvey Weinstein example of predatory harassment onto a simple common.
MACCALLUM: Absolutely. It's a wide range.
BONO: Yeah. And I'm quick to say to a colleague of mine, hey, you look nice today, male or female. You don't want that to stop. I mean, there are gradients.
MACCALLUM: You don't want to live in a world where you can't say that to someone either.
MACCALLUM: You want to be careful that the pendulum could swing too far, and I understand what you're saying. Mary, we've got to leave it there, but thank you so much for joining us tonight. Hope to see you again.
MACCALLUM: Former congresswoman Mary Bono. My thanks to her.
So we want to take you to this live picture right now before we pass it off to Tucker. This is live at the airbase in Yokota Airbase in Japan, where President Trump is scheduled to take off any minute now for the second leg of the big Asia tour, and there he is. We've got complete coverage throughout the night here on Fox News Channel. We will see you back here tomorrow night at 7:00. Tucker Carlson is coming up next.
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