This is a rush transcript from "On the Record," March 12, 2010. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: Democrats need 216 yesses in the House, and our next guest is not helping them. He is a Democrat. He's Congressman Luis Gutierrez. He voted yes on the House health care bill, but says right now, he's a no. Why? And can he be turned? Congressman Gutierrez joins us live. Good evening, sir.
REP. LUIS GUTIERREZ, D - ILL.: Good evening, Greta.
VAN SUSTEREN: Sir, why have you decided to vote no now? What is it about the Senate bill that is so unappealing to you?
GUTIERREZ: A good point. We did pass a House bill. The House bill was different from the Senate bill, and we're going in the direction of the Senate bill.
Greta, you probably remember last September, after Labor Day, the president came before the House and he said illegal aliens will not benefit from this health care bill, and Congressman Wilson said "You lie." Well, the president wasn't lying. I voted for that bill in the House of Representatives reluctantly, even though I thought it was bad public policy not allowing everyone to be able to access health care. So I voted for that bill.
But then the president decided he was going to double-down on the anti-immigrant issue and say, if you go to the exchange, the public market exchange that we're going to create, and attempt to purchase with your own money, with no government subsidy, health care, we're not going to allow to you do that, either. I thought that was wrong.
And secondly, if you're legally in this country, you're a legal immigrant authorized to work in this country, you're going to be required to purchase health care, but you cannot go to that exchange with the subsidy in order to gain that health care. That's disallowed in the Senate version.
So as it stands today, we had a wonderful conversation last night at the White House. A dozen members of the Hispanic Congressional Caucus met with the president. I thought the president was very engaged, very sincere and very clear about the problems that he's confronting. And we shared with him what our issues were.
And I think we're going to continue to -- but as we speak today, we haven't overcome them. And so when reporters asked me this afternoon where I stood on the bill, I said I cannot vote for the bill as it's currently structured.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right, well, the way that I understand the procedure to be is that the anticipation is that the House will vote the Senate bill. You say that you can't vote in favor of that bill, is that correct?
GUTIERREZ: That's...
VAN SUSTEREN: That -- OK, so that...
GUTIERREZ: Yes, Greta, because -- because, Greta, here's my...
VAN SUSTEREN: And I understand why. And I understand why. Yes. Go ahead.
GUTIERREZ: Yes, because here's my point.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right...
GUTIERREZ: Look, we keep saying that undocumented workers, illegally here in this country, don't pay their fair share. Well, here's an opportunity for them to go to the public exchange, right, and acquire the health care that they should have, which every other American under this health care proposal is required to get. And if it's with their own money, with no taxpayer, so then they're complying with the law.
So what are we going to do? They can't pay their taxes because it's administered by the government? They can't go to large retail chains, which offer great subsidies on prescription drugs today in the private sector? Are we going to check their ID? Germs don't really...
VAN SUSTEREN: Here's the -- here's the...
GUTIERREZ: ... understand and don't have boundaries. So when a little child goes into a classroom from an undocumented family that doesn't have health care, my kid gets sick. We're...
VAN SUSTEREN: Congressman, here's the -- here's the problem...
GUTIERREZ: ... public policy...
VAN SUSTEREN: There are two things. One is the substance, which I understand that you're arguing right now. One is sort of the practical, procedural part. And what has to happen is that the House needs to -- if this is to go forward like the president wants it, the House needs to vote the Senate bill, essentially. If you are voting no, and I understand the Hispanic Caucus to be about 24, 21 of you apparently have votes, three do not, for -- one, of course, is a senator -- of the -- of the -- of the 21 in the House, are you the only Hispanic -- the only member of the Hispanic Caucus that is saying no tonight?
GUTIERREZ: Here's what I can tell you, Greta. Everybody's going to vote their conscience. Everybody's going to vote their commitment to what they think is fair and equitable. I know that...
VAN SUSTEREN: Do you know of any others...
GUTIERREZ: ... as a caucus, we have a debate...
VAN SUSTEREN: Do you know any others, though?
GUTIERREZ: I can tell -- here's what I can tell you. I know that as a caucus, we have debated and discussed this issue. And many have said, I've heard other of my colleagues say, We can't vote for a health care bill that includes these provisions and these verifications. They like the House bill. They don't like the Senate bill.
I can't speak for them. I didn't come on this program as a representative of my other colleagues...
VAN SUSTEREN: Let -- let me ask you -- let me ask you...
GUTIERREZ: ... but I share with you my own -- my own voice.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right, let me ask you the drop-dead question on your own voice. If it turns out, because these numbers are so very close, that you are the deciding vote to agree to the Senate bill or not, if -- if there were -- if the Senate bill is as it is, and you object to it now, if it turns out you are the deciding vote, do you still vote no, or does your conscience change at that point to vote yes?
GUTIERREZ: Greta, here's what I also said. I said we had a great meeting yesterday with the president of the United States. We've engaged many in the White House today. I had two lengthy conversations with folks at the White House today. I know we're going to continue to meet. The vote may take place...
VAN SUSTEREN: That's not a yes or no...
GUTIERREZ: ... next Thursday...
VAN SUSTEREN: Congressman -- Congressman...
(CROSSTALK)
GUTIERREZ: If I could just -- if I could just...
VAN SUSTEREN: ... yes or no.
GUTIERREZ: If I could just -- yes, well, I don't think it is, Greta, because within the context of what we're discussing today, we are trying to find a solution. We are trying to find common ground. But as I speak to you today...
VAN SUSTEREN: But the -- but the -- but the Senate bill...
GUTIERREZ: ... we haven't found it.
VAN SUSTEREN: ... is set. The Senate bill...
GUTIERREZ: If the vote were to take place...
VAN SUSTEREN: ... is set.
GUTIERREZ: ... today under the current conditions and the current agreement, I could not support it, Greta.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Congressman, thank you. Good luck. And I know that everyone will continue to talk, and we'll continue to follow it. Thank you, sir.
GUTIERREZ: Thank you.
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