HHS Secretary Azar: Coronavirus vaccine could be distributed 24 hours after approval
The FDA will consider emergency authorization for Pfizer’s coronavirus vaccine; Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar provides updates on ‘Fox News Sunday.’
This is a rush transcript from “Fox News Sunday” December 6, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: I'm Chris Wallace.
States plan for the first doses of COVID-19 vaccine as the number of daily
cases and deaths in this country hits a new record.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. ROBERT REDFIELD, CDC DIRECTOR: The reality is December and January and
February are going to be rough times.
WALLACE (voice-over): Grim news as the pandemic overwhelms health care
systems, threatens the economy, and locks down weary Americans, but there's
hope on the horizon. We'll talk with Health and Human Services Secretary
Alex Azar about the prospect for approval this week by the FDA.
Plus --
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: That is a total game
changer -- a new president and a vaccine.
WALLACE: Signs of compromise on Capitol Hill as momentum builds for a new
round of COVID relief.
We'll ask Louisiana Senator Bill Cassidy about the bipartisan effort to
break the logjam.
Then, the political world turns to Georgia, where two runoff elections will
determine control of the Senate. We'll ask our Sunday panel how the outcome
will affect Joe Biden's agenda, and the foreign policy challenges for the
president-elect. We'll ask former CIA Director John Brennan about the
biggest threats to this country.
And our Power Player of the Week, famed cellist Yo-yo Ma spreading comfort
and hope to his music.
All, right now, on "FOX News Sunday".
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WALLACE (on camera): And hello again from FOX News in Washington.
As we wait for approval and distribution of a COVID vaccine, the news about
the pandemic keeps getting worse, threatening to overwhelm the nation's
health care system. Almost 230,000 new cases just on Friday, more than
100,000 coronavirus patience in the hospital. And public health officials
say the next three months will get even tougher.
But this week may mark the beginning of a turning point. An FDA panel meets
to discuss emergency authorization of the Pfizer vaccine, and states are
already prepping for distribution.
In a moment, we'll speak with HHS Secretary Alex Azar, but we began with
President Trump's return to the campaign trail for the first time since the
November election.
Mark Meredith has that story from the White House -- Mark.
MARK MEREDITH, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Chris, President Trump appeared
thrilled to be back on the trail last night but his trip to Georgia also
exposed the turmoil in the Republican Party over his refusal to concede.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TRUMP: We've never lost an election. We're winning this election.
MEREDITH: The presidential election is over, but not according to
President Trump. While stumping for GOP candidates David Perdue and Kelly
Loeffler --
TRUMP: They believe, both of them, in America, and they believe in our
values and all that we stand for, and they understand the state. They love
your state.
MEREDITH: The president demanded Republican governors reject the
November's election results.
TRUMP: Your governor could stop it very easily if he knew what the hell he
was doing.
MEREDITH: Both parties are spending heavily in the fight for Georgia's
Senate seats. Republicans need to win at least one of the two seats up for
grabs to keep their majority.
Meantime, nationwide, states are facing a nightmare scenario as COVID-19
cases and deaths reach record levels.
REDFIELD: We are at a very critical time right now about being able to
maintain the resilience of our health care system.
MEREDITH: Several states are imposing new lockdown measures to slow the
spread, but medical officials insist relief is in sight with hopes the FDA
will approve Pfizer's vaccine candidate, which the company says appears to
be 95 percent effective.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MEREDITH: There is also growing optimism up on Capitol Hill that lawmakers
will agree to pass a $900 billion stimulus within weeks. The president says
he's open to more stimulus, Chris. But he also wants to see what lawmakers
produce first -- Chris.
WALLACE: Mark Meredith reporting from the White House -- Mark, thank you.
And joining us now, Secretary of Health and Human Services Alex Azar.
Mr. Secretary, as we said, an FDA Advisory Panel is going to be considering
emergency authorization for the Pfizer vaccine on Thursday.
Two questions. First of all, is there anything in the technical information
that Pfizer has presented that raises any red flags? And second, assuming
that the panel approves, how long will it take the FDA to give the green
light and for the vaccine to be distributed?
ALEX AZAR, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: So Chris,
I've not heard of any red flags but I -- I'll have to leave that to career
scientists at FDA who are digging through all of the data.
In terms of timing, assuming everything is on track and the advisory
committee goes well, we could see authorization of the Pfizer within days
after the advisory committee and then Moderna one week later is their
advisory committee and similarly days after that. But I'm going to leave
that to the FDA career scientists to determine if everything's on track.
WALLACE: But if the panel approves on December 10, how soon might the
vaccine -- the Pfizer vaccine be out for people?
AZAR: Really within days, Chris. What we've said is within 24 hours of FDA
green lighting with authorization we'll ship to all of the states and
territories that we work with. And within hours they can be vaccinating.
WALLACE: President Elect Biden says that his transition team has looked at
the administration's distribution plan and that they have found some
problems. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT ELECT: There is no detailed plan, that we've seen
anyway, as to how you get the vaccine out of a container into an injection
syringe into somebody's arm.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Is the president elect wrong?
AZAR: With all respect, that's just nonsense. We have comprehensive plans
from the CDC working with 64 public health jurisdictions across the
country, as our governors have laid out very detailed plans that we've
worked with them on. We're leveraging our retail pharmacies, our hospitals,
our public health departments, our community health centers. We have the
McKesson built kits that have the syringes, the diluent, the needles, the
PPE to administer.
This is being micro-managed and controlled by the United States Military as
well as our incredible private sector. We do hundreds of millions of
vaccinations of a year. We're leveraging the systems that are known and
that work here in the United States.
WALLACE: Not that this is the administration's problem, but you originally
promised that there would be 300 million doses of the vaccine by the end of
the year. And now it looks like it's going to be roughly about 10 percent
of that, 35 to 40 million doses because of various supply problems on the
part of the vaccine makers. So this isn't going to go just according to the
book. There are going to be some obstacles.
AZAR: Well, Chris, we're looking at the really historic accomplishment.
You know, six months from when -- the president's direction I created
Operation Warp Speed. We're looking at having multiple vaccines FDA
approved and -- close to 40 million doses of FDA approved vaccine
releasable by the end of this year.
What I've always said is high tens of millions of doses of FDA gold
standard vaccine by the end of the year. We'll have that. We'll have 40
million releasable as well as a comparable amount that will be going
through final quality control for release in January. And then hundreds of
millions of doses from multiple manufacturers as we go into next year.
Really a historic achievement.
And it is the light at the end of the tunnel. It's what (ph) we need people
to hang in there with washing their hands, watching their distance, wearing
their face coverings when they can't watch their distance because those
bright days are ahead and we want everyone to be there to get their
vaccination.
WALLACE: But there is a hitch in this and that is as many as 40 percent of
Americans, according to polls, say they may not get the vaccine. And one of
the reasons is because concern about politics.
I'm going to put a tweet. On November 9, the president tweeted the U.S. FDA
and the Democrats didn't want to have the (INAUDIBLE) vaccine win prior of
the election, so instead, it came up five days later.
And when the White House chief of staff called in the FDA commissioner
twice this week to ask why it's taken the agency so long to approve the
vaccine, the FDA commissioner, Stephen Hahn, felt the need to write this:
We will make sure that our scientists take the time they need to make an
appropriate decision.
Mr. Secretary, why not stop the politics and let the scientists do their
job?
AZAR: Chris, that's exactly what I've done and I've reassured you and
others throughout this process and that's what's happened. Five independent
checks, independent Data Safety Monitoring Board, independent drug company
reviewing the data to make sure it meets the (INAUDIBLE) standards.
(CROSSTALK)
WALLACE: Sir, I understand -- I understand that. But you got the president
tweeting that somehow the decision on when to release the vaccine was an
effort to defeat him in the election. You got the White House chief of
staff calling in the FDA commissioner and saying, let's get going faster --
you may be letting the scientists do their job, but people in the White
House don't appear to be.
AZAR: Well, Chris, the facts just show that the five independent checks we
put in the system are what are driving this train here. And we're also
going to work to help improve vaccine confidence working, especially with
trusted voices in underserved communities.
But the most important thing is going to be, as we progressively roll out
vaccine to people, the positive experiences that they have by word of mouth
and reference are going to be what really drive I think increasing vaccine
confidence as we see the end of the -- end of the day of this pandemic
eventually.
WALLACE: All right. Let's turn from the vaccine to the terrible situation
that we find ourselves in right now. As I said that we are seeing a record
number of COVID cases, hospitalizations and deaths, and here's what we
heard this week from the head of the CDC, Dr. Robert Redfield.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ROBERT REDFIELD, CDC DIRECTOR: The reality is December and January and
February are going to be rough times. I actually believe they're going to
be the most difficult time in the public health history of this nation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Secretary Azar, isn't this the result of a massive failure by
President Trump and his administration?
AZAR: Chris, we're seeing this surge in cases in the United States, but
also in Germany, France, the U.K., Spain. It's about behavior and cold
weather.
People are going indoors. They're not minding the three Ws. They're not
wearing their first coverings. We're engaged in indoor behaviors where we
let our guard down.
We need people to renew their commitment.
But we're also not without tools. We have complete visibility, thanks to
tools that I built here earlier this year, so that we know what's going on
in the nation's hospitals. We're being proactive in reaching out to them.
We're getting them supply --
(CROSSTALK)
WALLACE: OK --
AZAR: It's important that people know that we're working to protect them.
They're getting supplies, testing (ph) --
(CROSSTALK)
WALLACE: I understand. But let me -- let me ask you --
AZAR: -- making sure there's capacity there.
WALLACE: But, Secretary Azar, let me ask you about some of those tools.
Let's just take the issue of masks.
Here's what President-elect Biden said this week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT: I'm going to ask the public for 100 days
to mask. Just 100 days to mask, not forever. One hundred days.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: But back on April 3rd, when the CDC director, Dr. Robert
Redfield, first recommended that all Americans wear masks, here's what
happened, sir.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REDFIELD: We know that a face barrier can actually interrupt the number of
virus particles that can go from one person to the other.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So, it's voluntary. You
don't have to do it. They suggested for a period of time, but this is
voluntary. I don't think I'm going to be doing it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: If President Trump had worn a mask then and urged everyone to
wear a mask then, back in April, the way Joe Biden is right now, wouldn't
we be in much better shape?
AZAR: Well, Chris, I welcome Vice President Biden to the club. Since the
middle of April, the president's guidelines for reopening have called to
wearing mask.
WALLACE: He's the president-elect, sir.
AZAR: The president has called -- the president has --
WALLACE: He's the president-elect.
AZAR: The president has called masks patriotic acts. Every one of his top
advisers, we are out there saying, wear your masks.
We talk about the data. You know, Chris, at one meeter (ph) if two people
wear the masks it can reduce viral transmission by 72 percent, protecting
both the source and the recipient. We've got the data. Masks work. We
encourage people, please, wear a mask when you can't engage in social
distancing.
WALLACE: But -- but, first of all it's -- it's the president-elect, Joe
Biden, Secretary Azar. And, secondly, the fact is, the president said on
the first day, April 3rd, he wasn't going to wear a mask, he didn't wear a
mask in public for three months, until July. And just last night, at that
rally in Georgia, not only didn't he wear a mask, but I was watching the
rally, thousands of people packed together. None I can see wearing a mask.
That is a direct violation of what the CDC and you were recommending.
AZAR: Chris, our advice is always the same, wash your hands, watch your
distance, wear face coverings when you can't watch your distance and be
especially careful of those settings like overcrowded indoor bars and
restaurants or multi-family household gatherings where you're going to let
your guard down and take that face covering off. So, Chris, our advice is
the same, regardless of the setting.
WALLACE: And regardless of whether the president ignores it or not?
AZAR: Regardless of the setting, our advice remains the same. And the
president has called mask wearing patriotic. We encourage people to wear
face coverings when they can't maintain their social distance.
WALLACE: Finally, you said this recently about lockdowns, you don't need
lockdowns. The data clearly demonstrate the interventions we need are
simply, they're demonstrated, they're proven, but they're not forcing --
they're not forcing people to stay in their homes, shutting down our
businesses, shutting our schools.
Is California Governor Newsom wrong to say with -- in the state of
California, literally, in many places, running out of ICU beds because
there's such a surge in hospitalization, is he wrong to say that he is
going to impose some stay at home order?
AZAR: Chris, our community mitigation efforts have to be based in science
and evidence or we lost public support and compliance for them. We know
that our workplaces, our universities, our K-12 schools, flying on
airplanes are not major vectors of disease transmission. It's overcrowded
indoor restaurants and bars, it is multi-household indoor gatherings where
we let our guard down. These are the things we need to protect against.
If we go too far, and we defer to governors on the steps they need to take.
It's their call. But we -- if we go beyond science and evidence, we will
undermine public support.
You know, as Dr. Fauci said, it's -- the most important thing is to
convince people why they should wear face coverings. More than band-aiding,
it's get people to understand why it matters to protect them and their
loved ones to wear face coverings. And that's our job, convincing people of
science and evidence-based interventions.
WALLACE: Well, I agree with you, as you say right there, wear a mask. I
wish everyone did.
Secretary Azar, thank you. Thanks for your time this weekend. We'll be
tracking what the FDA panel does on Thursday, sir.
AZAR: Thank you, Chris.
WALLACE: Up next, a new push on Capitol Hill for COVID relief shows some
promise. We'll talk with one of the key players, Louisiana Senator Bill
Cassidy about the prospects for getting a compromise across the finish
line.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WALLACE: After months of failed negotiations, there are signs of a
possible compromise on coronavirus relief. A bipartisan group of senators
is pushing a $908 billion package that would boost unemployment benefits by
$300 a week, provide $288 billion for struggling small businesses and $160
billion for state and local governments.
Joining us now, Republican Senator Bill Cassidy, who is a doctor as well as
a member of the bipartisan group behind the plan.
Senator, what are the chances that Congress will pass this compromise plan
that your bipartisan group has come up with? And I guess more specifically,
have you been -- how assured are you that Senate Majority Leader McConnell
will support it and that President Trump will sign it?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R-LA): President Trump has indicated that he would sign
a $908 billion package. There was only $908 billion package out there, and
that's ours.
Leader McConnell has said he's not interested in making a point. He wants
something which passes into law. It only can pass into law if it's
bipartisan in the House and the Senate and ours is.
Now, neither have said, we'll sign your bill. That's fair, we have final
language. Our final language, Chris, will probably come out early this
week, earlier this week. And so then people can look at it and we can
modify it as needed.
But the indications I get, the pain of the American people is driving this,
and I'm optimistic that both those leaders will come on board.
WALLACE: Let's do a lightning round, quick questions, quick answers, some
of the specifics about the legislation. Some members of your group and also
outside your group are calling for another round of $1,200 direct payments
to every adult American.
Is that go or no-go for you?
CASSIDY: This is a -- let me nuance that. It may be a go but it's not in
this bill. This is not a stimulus bill, it's a relief bill. And it's
something for the next three to four months to help those in greatest need.
There may be a stimulus check, but that would be part of a different piece
of legislation.
WALLACE: Will the moratorium on evictions be extended?
CASSIDY: We do extend that but we also bring relief to the landlords. They
are the ones holding the bag, and so, we're giving relief to the landlords
on the condition that the person not be evicted, we do think we get there.
WALLACE: Now, Democrats have made it clear -- not in your group -- but
generally, that they oppose liability protection for businesses that reopen
during the pandemic. Is that nonnegotiable for Republicans? Does that have
to be in the bill?
CASSIDY: Defined nonnegotiable. There has to be some -- there has to be
some liability protection. Think about it. At first, CDC and Dr. Fauci were
saying, don't wear a mask. And then they were saying wear a mask.
And so, there's been ambiguity as we have gone through, and then think of
that small restaurant when people were told not to wear a mask and now
someone is going to file a claim. Just the discovery would make them
bankrupt.
So we got to have something, but it has to be something that we negotiate
that's acceptable to both, and frankly, that's one of the sticking points
right now.
WALLACE: President-elect Biden says he supports this compromise that you
and the others are offering as a, quote, down payment, but that he fully
intends to come back after he's inaugurated in 2021 and ask for more.
Take a look at what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT: Americans need help and they need it now.
And they need more to come early next year.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Do you agree that Washington will need to pass more stimulus,
more relief in 2021 to help prop up the economy?
CASSIDY: Hey, tell me what the vaccine's uptake is. Tell me what the
infection rate is. If the vaccine is being deployed, infection rates are
falling, stores are reopening, small businesses are flourishing -- we
don't. But if the infection rate continues to climb, we may.
So, you have to kind of give me the variables upon which I'm deciding. I'm
hoping that vaccine deployment begins to reopen things as infection rates
fall.
WALLACE: I want to change subjects on you. You are one of the few
Republicans in the Senate to openly state that Joe Biden won this election
and is the next president.
I want to play a clip from President Trump at his rally in Georgia last
night. Take a look, sir.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They cheated and they rigged
our presidential election, but we will still win it. We will still win it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Does the president's refusal to accept their election results
more than a month afterwards, does that damage or democracy, sir?
CASSIDY: First, let me say that the president, in effect, has conceded
when he ordered the General Service Administration to begin the
transmission. And so if by damaging or democracy, you mean that the next
administration won't be prepared, that preparation is taking place.
Now, if you want to speak about how things are undermined, I think the
president -- by the way, if there's fraud, it should be uncovered. But it
should be uncovered in a way which a judge agrees. If the president is able
to show that, then that's important. If they can't show, that's also
important.
I'm hoping the American people would look and say, proven in a court of
law, no, the court of law threw it out, and use that to base their faith in
how the elections go.
And so that's -- it's incumbent upon the president and his legal team to
establish that.
WALLACE: But you've come to the conclusion, and you talk about the fact
that all of these cases that his team has offered have been thrown out.
You've come to the conclusion that Joe Biden has won. You know, even though
there are more cases out there.
Does it hurt, do you feel, the fact that the vast majority of our
Republican colleagues in the Senate refused to accept the results of the
election. Does that undercut, undermine the election, not in the sense that
there are transition meetings, but that it means that millions of people
may never accept Joe Biden as the legitimate president?
CASSIDY: You're giving a hypothetical and I can't -- I can't tell you what
millions of people are going to do. All I can say is that we are one
nation. And many we become one.
And so at the end of this, if the legal challenges are exhausted, ideal --
and by the way, if it goes as it's currently going, which appears likely --
then, ideally, the American people say, hey, we're first Americans, let's
work together for the future of our country as opposed to continue to
harbor grievances.
We don't want to be a nation which fights another nation for a thousand
years. We want to recognize that we are the American people. And we are
going to work for each other.
And yes, have your day in court, and if it's fraud, uncover that fraud, and
if not, we move on. That's where we are. I'm hopeful that we would move on
whichever direction that falls out.
WALLACE: Finally, Congress is expected to pass the Defense Authorization
Act this week and send it on to the president, but President Trump says he
intends to veto it unless it strikes Section 230, the Communications Act,
which provides protection for tech giants like Facebook and Twitter.
If the president -- and he has said he's going to veto it -- if he does,
will you vote to override that veto?
CASSIDY: We need to pay our troops. We need -- we need defense. And so, my
inclination would be to always vote for the troops and to vote for our
national security, but to look for another vehicle to address the 230 --
the Section 230 issues that are so important to the president.
WALLACE: And very quickly, do you think that your Senate colleagues will
agree with you that yes, they'll go for another vehicle, but if the
president vetoes the Defense Authorization Act, money for the troops, as
you said, that they will vote to override?
CASSIDY: I haven't done a whip count but we all recognize the world is an
increasingly dangerous place and God bless the members of our military and
our clandestine services. We need to support them as they protect us, but I
haven't done a whip count, but I do think there's an incredible respect for
the men and women who protect our country and we recognize our need to
support them.
WALLACE: Senator Kennedy -- Cassidy, rather, thank you. You think it's the
other senator from Louisiana is Senator Kennedy.
Thank you. Thanks for joining us. We'll be watching how negotiations play
out in Congress this week. Always good to talk to you, sir.
CASSIDY: Thank you.
WALLACE: Up next, we'll bring in our Sunday group to discuss the runoffs
in Georgia and the extended battle for control of the Senate.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WALLACE: Coming up, the balance of power in the Senate still in play.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. DAVID PERDUE (R-GA): We are going to win Georgia and we are going to
save America, right?
JON OSSOFF (D), GEORGIA SENATE CANDIDATE: Right now, the eyes of the whole
nation are on Georgia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: We'll ask our Sunday panel how the outcome of these two races
will affect Joe Biden's agenda, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You've got to make sure your
secretary of state knows what the hell he's doing.
And you've got to make sure your governor gets a lot tougher than he's
been. He's got to get a lot tougher.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: President Trump in Georgia last night,
still saying he did not lose that state's presidential election, as voters
there look ahead to two January runoffs that will decide the Senate balance
of power at the start of Joe Biden's presidency.
And it's time now for our Sunday group. Senator Mitch McConnell's former
chief of staff, Josh Holmes of Cavalry Consultants, Catherine Lucey, who
covers the White House for "The Wall Street Journal," and Mo Elleithee of
Georgetown University's Institute of Politics and Public Service.
Josh, not only did you have President Trump's comments about the
presidential election in Georgia in that rally last night, but also this
week you had Trump supporter and noted defense lawyer Lin Wood at a rally
saying that the Georgia state legislature should come back in special
session to overturn the November 3rd election.
Here is some of what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LIN WOOD, PRO-TRUMP LAWYER: If Kelly Loeffler and David Perdue do not do
it, they have not earned your vote, don't you give it to them. Why would
you go back and vote in another rigged election?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Josh, that cannot help Republicans trying to get their voters out
to participate and support the two Republican candidates in the January 5th
runoffs.
JOSH HOLMES, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO SENATOR MITCH MCCONNELL, PRESIDENT
AND FOUNDING PARTNER OF CAVALRY: Well, Chris, I think, once again, where
the media and the punditry in Washington, D.C., and New York City are is a
huge chasm between where voters are in Georgia. And I think you saw the
comments there from Lin Wood, who, by the way, is not associated with the
Trump campaign in any way, but yet has become famous here in the last
couple of weeks because he's been saying things that are, frankly, very
unhelpful to Republicans. So not surprisingly they're front page material
in the mainstream media.
I think the president addressed all of this extremely directly last night
when he said, if you're frustrated, use your frustration to work for Kelly
and David and make sure that we protect these Republican seats, protect the
Republican majority, and ensure ultimately that the legacy of President
Trump in the last four years is protected by a Senate majority that can do
things like get to the bottom of election reforms that might be necessary
here after the 2020 election.
WALLACE: Let's look at the latest Real Clear Politics average of recent
polls in the two Georgia runoffs, put them up on the screen. The race
between Senator David Perdue and Democrat Jon Ossoff, as you can see there,
is well within the margin of error. And in the race between GOP Senator
Kelly Loeffler and Reverend Raphael Warnock, another dead heat as they head
into their debate tonight.
Mo, Loeffler has been hitting Warnock for some pretty far left comments
that he has made over the years as a minister in Atlanta, including one
where he said that man cannot serve both God and the military.
Why hasn't that hurt him more than it seems to have so far?
MO ELLEITHEE, GEORGETOWN INSTITUTE OF POLITICS AND PUBLIC SERVICE, FORMER
DNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR AND FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, look, I think
there's a couple things going on.
Number one, the -- both Georgia Republican senators have had to deal with
some pretty brutal ethics allegations and that has sucked up all -- some of
the oxygen in the room and both Democratic candidates have been very
aggressive in hitting that.
But this is one of those areas where I think the -- the desperation of both
parties, to be honest, the desperation of both parties to nationalize these
two races, to connect them to one another and to connect them to -- to last
month's election I think has just completely changed the dynamic, making it
very different than any other Senate runoff any of us have may -- may have
ever observed. It's -- last night's the president went in there and said
this -- this election -- essentially what he said is this election is -- is
-- is a continuation of my fight.
WALLACE: Right.
ELLEITHEE: It wasn't about those two candidates. It was about him. And
Democrats are happy to stay, sure, make this about Donald Trump's. And so
it's a little hard to see what's going to happen here given that dynamic.
WALLACE: And then there is President Trump and his continued fight. He had
a 46 minute video this week in which he once again argued that he was the
rightful winner of the November 3rd presidential election.
Take a look at that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This may be the most
important speech I've ever made.
I am determined to protect our election system, which is now under
coordinated assault and seizure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Catherine, what are your sources in the White House telling you?
How far is Donald Trump prepared to take this? And do you expect him to
announce that he's going to seek election -- re-election in 2024 either
before or even on Inauguration Day?
CATHERINE LUCEY, "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL": Welcome, Chris, certainly, you
know, what we're hearing from folks close to the president is, you know,
that he's continuing to make these claims. You know, we heard this last
night in Georgia. We herded it in the video, these unsupported claims that
the election was rigged, that it was stolen from him.
Most people close to him do not expect him to make any kind of formal
concession. They really expect that he will likely leave office, you know,
making these same complaints. And looking ahead to the '24 bid, he has
again been talking about that. You know, privately, publicly, he wants to
stay in the conversation, he wants to remain a leader of the party, he
wants to continue raising money.
Some -- and we've heard basically mixed things from people. You know, some
people think he could make some kind of announcement, you know, ahead of
or, you know, around the time of the inauguration. Other people think he
might just continue to dangle this prospect out there and, you know, leave
it out there, which effectively, you know, freezes the field for a lot of
Republicans who may be considering a 2020 forbid.
WALLACE: Let me pick up on that with you, Josh, because if President Trump
announces or hints strongly enough that he plans to run again in 2024, what
does that do to the GOP presidential field for 2024? What does it mean for
Mike Pence? What does it mean for Nikki Haley and Tom Cotton? Can you
imagine any potential Republican candidate announcing, I'm going to run for
president if Donald Trump is still out there and run the risk that they're
going to get an attack from the former president?
HOLMES: Well, look, I think that President Trump's legacy within the
Republican Party is going to be pretty significant in 2024 no matter what.
I think the midterm 2022 he'll play a big role in. Clearly he is the
predominant voice within the party today and moves more of the electorate
than anybody else in the party.
You know, if he decides to run, if he makes an actual announcement about
running in 2024, clearly that does complicate life for people like Vice
President Mike Pence, who may be considering a bit of his own, and others
associated with the Trump administration. You saw a number of them asked
directly that question over the last couple of weeks. And, you know,
clearly it complicates it a bit.
But, look, there's never been two elections that are ultimately the same.
And I imagine that both the party and the country continue to go in
interesting, new, different directions over 2022 and 2024. We just don't
know ultimately what the electorate is going to be determining their votes
on at that point.
But I will -- I will say definitively that President Trump is going to have
a very serious impact, particularly in the primaries, for years to come.
WALLACE: All right, panel, thank you. Thanks for coming in today. See you
next Sunday.
Up next, Iran's nuclear program, the threat from China. We'll ask former
CIA Director John Brennan about Joe Biden's foreign policy challenges and
his own epic war of words with President Trump.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WALLACE: President-elect Biden promises to turn away from Donald Trump's
America first policies and once again embrace U.S. allies. But just how
different will American foreign policy be under this new administration?
Joining us now, former CIA Director John Brennan, author of the new book
"Undaunted: My Fight Against America's Enemies at Home and Abroad."
Director Brennan, you said recently that if Israel was behind the
assassination of Iran's top nuclear scientists, and that seems likely, that
it would be a case of state-sponsored terrorism.
Now, Iran has no qualms about going after and killing American officials,
American soldiers. So why is it off-limits to go after the scientist or
General Soleimani?
JOHN BRENNAN, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: Well, Chris, we condemn Iran when it
engaged in such activity. And I think there are certain norms and standards
of international behaviors by sovereign states that should be adhered to.
And assassinations should be condemned.
If China were to assassinate a Taiwanese nuclear scientist or if Russia
were to assassinate a Ukrainian nuclear scientist, it would be roundly
condemned, and rightly so. And just because it may have been Israel behind
the assassination does not make it right. I do think it is not consistent
with those norms of international behavior that sovereign states should
abide by.
WALLACE: But, I mean, you certainly would agree that -- that Iran is not
Taiwan or Ukraine. I mean they're a bad actor in the world. Do these
Marquess of Queensbury rules apply to them?
BRENNAN: Well, I agree, Chris, that there are many Iranians who are
extremist, radical and violent. But Iran is not a monolith. It is a
sovereign state. It does have a seat at the United Nations and, therefore,
again, I don't think the sovereign state should kill the senior officials
of another government because they can or because they want to. If that
were the case, I think the international environment would be rather
chaotic.
WALLACE: In your new book, "Undaunted," you say that the Iran nuclear deal
was one of the crown jewels of the Obama administration, which I'm sure
will give heartburn to people in the Trump administration.
If Joe Biden re-negotiates a deal with Iran, as he says he intends to,
doesn't he have to almost start from scratch? I mean there are some sunset
provisions in the Iran nuclear deal that have already lapsed and some that
are going to lapse within five years. Doesn't he almost have to start from
scratch?
BRENNAN: Well, I don't think he has to start from scratch because a lot has
been done as a result of that joint comprehensive plan of action in the
Iran nuclear deal. The Iranians did destroy a number of their centrifuges.
They did reduce the amount of heavy water that they had. But I agree that
there needs to be a return to discussions in order to determine what Iran
needs to do now in light of what has happened over the last four years so
that there can be a return to some form of an agreement whereby Iran will
be required to adhere to these limitations and restrictions on their
program so that they can benefit from some type of economic incentives that
can be offered to them.
WALLACE: Do we, in fact, have to push out any sunset clauses? I mean Some
of them end in 2025. That would be, what, four years from when the deal
would be renegotiated.
BRENNAN: Well, no one thought that the Iranian nuclear deal was a perfect
deal, but frequently in negotiations it's a series of compromises. And I
think the Obama administration viewed the Iranian nuclear deal as a
foundation upon which to build, not just in the nuclear realm, but also in
the other areas, ballistic missile developers, terrorism, other types of
things. But tearing up the U.S. agreement and adherence to it I think has
really set us back in terms making progress on these very important fronts.
WALLACE: I think it's fair to say that the mutual contempt between you and
Donald Trump is -- I was trying to think of the right adjective yesterday,
epic, profound. In fact, both of you have accused the other of treason.
Which raises the question, was it a mistake for you, as the CIA director,
to come out so publicly and to attack a sitting president so sharply? And
didn't you lend credence to President Trump's argument that there is a deep
state in the intelligence community working against him?
BRENNAN: Well, it's true, I'm a former senior intelligence official, but I
have been a private citizen ever since I started to shoot back at Donald
Trump because of his dishonesty, his deceit. And when he stood on the world
stage in Helsinki and sided with Vladimir Putin against the U.S.
intelligence community, yes, I did say that his actions were nothing short
of treasonous. And so, yes, I have been strident in my criticism of him,
but his irresponsibility on so many fronts, including on COVID, has angered
me and has led me to speak out as vociferously as I have.
WALLACE: One of the things that President Trump has gone after you about,
and has accused you and other officials of, is perpetuating what he calls
the Russia hoax.
Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (August 11, 2020): You can
look at Brennan and Comey and Clapper and the whole group. We caught them
spying on our campaign. This was an illegal act like no other illegal act.
This was treason. This was at the highest level of treason.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: As I said, you both accused each other of treason.
What do you think of Attorney General Barr extending the Durham
investigation into the Obama administration, the FBI, the intelligence
community, extending that investigation well into 2021?
BRENNAN: Well, I think that is fine. I have no problems with it.
I -- I do believe that John Durham is going to carry out his
responsibilities ably and hopefully not with any type of political
influence. I sat down for eight hours with John Durham and his team
answering all his questions. And so looking back at 2016, where there some
mistakes made in terms of the FISA applications, other types of things?
Yes. Apparently there were. But that doesn't mean that there was criminal
intent. And there was no spying on Donald Trump's campaign. And it's very
clear, from Robert Mueller's investigation, that there were a lot of
activities that I think were very unprincipled, unethical and it will be up
to individuals in the future to determine whether or not there was any
criminal activity that took place during that time.
WALLACE: But let me pick up on the Mueller investigation because it
concluded, in the long Mueller report, that it did not find sufficient
evidence that the Trump campaign either conspired or coordinated with the
Russian government during the 2016 election.
Do you accept that conclusion?
BRENNAN: Well, yes, I do. Bob Mueller was not able to establish that
evidence of a criminal conspiracy. But it's clear from his report about the
number of contacts that took place between the Trump campaign and Russian
and -- Russian and Russian officials. And none of them were referred to the
FBI. And so I think it is quite evident and clear that there was extensive
interactions that should not have happened. And that is why the FBI was
investigating, as it should have, the nature of those contacts, and whether
anybody was, in fact, conspiring with the Russians to try to affect the
outcome of the 2016 election.
WALLACE: You -- you talked about the FISA warrant to surveilled Carter Page
and the inspector general for the FBI said that that was improper, the
lawyer who -- who took actually some statements from the CIA and -- and
doctored them has pled guilty to a crime.
What about what seems to be the pretty total discrediting of the Steele
dossier?
BRENNAN: Well, as we have said previously, the Steele dossier was not used
in any way to undergird the judgments that came out of the intelligence
community assessment about the Russian actions in the 2016 election. And so
the 20 -- the Steele dossier was something that I never, you know, looked
at from a standpoint of credibility because it wasn't something that the
CIA had acquired.
And so I think, you know, people point to the Steele dossier as -- as this,
you know, reason why the whole thing was a hoax. No, there was so much
other evidence and intelligence to support those judgments.
So I am very comfortable with how the intelligence community came out on
that 2016 election.
WALLACE: And I've got about 40 seconds here, so I'm going to need a quick
answer. Trying to find some point of agreement between you and President
Trump.
Do you give him credit for being more aggressive in taking on China?
BRENNAN: I think it's important that we deal with China. It's not a one-
dimensional issue. And I think the Biden administration is going to have to
engage with the Chinese on all of the issues, whether it be trade,
economics, cyber, North Korea, you name it, naval power in the South China
Sea.
But I do believe that it's important for us to have our eyes wide open when
it comes to China. The threats that it poses, as well as possible
cooperation.
WALLACE: Director Brennan, thank you. Thanks for coming in.
Again, the name of the new book, "Undaunted."
Thank you, sir.
BRENNAN: Thank you, Chris.
WALLACE: Up next, our "Power Player of the Week." Cellist Yo-Yo Ma
spreading hope through his musical magic.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WALLACE: He has been a major figure in American music for decades, but in
this challenging year of 2020, he has found a new way to reach us.
Here is our "Power Player of the Week."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
YO-YO MA, CELLIST: Since you can't be touched, you can't be caressed, the
music is the caress, is -- is that piece of humanity that is missing from
your aloneness and when you need it the most.
WALLACE (voice over): World-famous cellist Yo-Yo Ma on the role music can
play in the time of COVID. Despite quarantines and social distancing, Ma
has found ways to bring people closer together.
MA: This is a moment for invention. The thing that we then need to look at
is the delivery system.
WALLACE: And deliver he has. Back in March, Ma began a project called Songs
of Comfort, where he posts video on social media playing his cello.
MA: One of my colleagues said, you know, maybe we could do what we usually
do in times of stress and disasters. How about if we do songs of comfort
and hope? I said, done.
WALLACE: Ma's videos have gotten almost 45 million views and he's invited
other artists to post their own songs of comfort, like James Taylor.
JAMES TAYLOR, MUSICIAN: Trying not to try to hard. It's just a (INAUDIBLE).
MA: I think we're all trying to figure out ways to find ways to help.
WALLACE: Music has always been a passion for Ma. Born in Paris, then raised
in New York City, he was a child prodigy, playing for President Kennedy at
age seven.
Over the years he's performed on a variety of stages, from Carnegie Hall to
"Sesame Street" to President Obama's first inauguration.
WALLACE (on camera): How difficult was it not to be in front of an
audience, on a stage, for all these months?
MA: It was not difficult for me because I think I was constantly in touch
with people. Music actually does play a part in helping.
WALLACE (voice over): As the world waits for vaccines and an end to the
pandemic, Ma believes music can heal our hearts.
MA: We turn to people. As Mister Rogers used to say, you go to the helpers.
WALLACE (on camera): And you want to be one of those helpers?
MA: Well, I think -- if you can be a taker or a giver, I think you get more
joy from being a giver.
WALLACE (voice over): And so Ma played songs of comfort for us and for you.
WALLACE (on camera): What a gift.
MA: Thank you so much, Chris.
WALLACE: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WALLACE: What a treat.
You can hear more of Yo-Yo Ma's music this Friday when he releases a new
album, Songs of Comfort and Hope.
Now, this program note.
Tune in tonight to Fox News Channel for special coverage of the Georgia
runoff debate between Raphael Warnock and Kelly Loeffler. That's starting
at 7:00 p.m. Eastern.
And that's it for today. Have a great week and we'll see you next FOX NEWS
SUNDAY.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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