Herbst: If they ask Volker a question, he'll answer it truthfully
Former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine John Herbst on former U.S. diplomat Kurt Volker testifying on Ukraine whistleblower complaint.
This is a rush transcript from "Your World," October 3, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
NEIL CAVUTO, ANCHOR: They are piling on, as President Trump is just trying to move on.
Welcome, everybody. I'm Neil Cavuto.
And a tale of two remarkable political worlds today, the president at The Villages in Florida promoting fixing health care once and for all, Democrats in Washington calling their first witness in a probe many of them say will lead to impeaching the president for and for all.
First to FOX Business's Blake Burman at the White House on how the president is handling it all -- Blake.
BLAKE BURMAN, CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Neil.
President Trump today calling for not one, but two investigations now into Joe and Hunter Biden. The president saying not only should Ukraine investigate the two, but also China.
The president making those comments as he left the White House earlier this morning on the South Lawn. And then he was then asked whether or not he has made that ask of the Chinese president, Xi Jinping.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT: I haven't, but it's certainly something we can start thinking about, because I'm sure that President Xi doesn't like being under that kind of scrutiny, where billions of dollars is taken out of his country by a guy that just got kicked out of the Navy.
He got kicked out of the Navy. All of a sudden, he's getting billions of dollars. You know what they call that? They call that a payoff.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURMAN: Now, the president takes issue with Hunter Biden's traveled to China with his father, that image right there, then the vice president, in 2013.
Days later, a private equity fund Hunter Biden was involved with received investment money from China. The president claims, as you heard there, $1.5 billion, but The Washington Post fact-checker has disputed that figure.
In a statement today, the Biden campaign said that President Trump continues to engage in what they are calling an abuse of power. They added as well -- quote -- "What Donald Trump just said on the South Lawn of the White House was this election's equivalent of his famous, 'Russia, if you're listening' moment from 2016, a grotesque choice of lies over truth and self over the country."
Those comments, by the way, from the president came, as I said, as he was leaving for Florida, where he signed an executive order just a little while ago involving Medicare. This held a bit of a dual role, as the president's executive order will try to strengthen Medicare Advantage, but it also allowed him to go to the swing state of Florida and attack Medicare for all, as he sees it, as socialism.
But, at one point, Neil, toward the tail end of the comments, the president also suggested that big pharma might be behind the -- quote, unquote -- "nonsense" or the -- quote, unquote -- "hoax," as he put it, essentially the impeachment efforts, by saying of big pharma he -- quote -- "wouldn't be surprised if it was from some of these industries like pharmaceuticals that we take on" -- Neil.
CAVUTO: I'm not sure I understand that, but OK. Thank you, my friend, Blake Burman at the White House.
BURMAN: You got it.
CAVUTO: Well, Democrats say that today's testimony by the former U.S. envoy to Ukraine confirms their case.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ADAM SCHIFF, D-CALIF.: Once again you had the United States suggesting, urging a foreign country to interfere in our presidential elections.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAVUTO: All right, California Republican Congressman Tom McClintock, a member of that Judiciary Committee, by the way, says Democrats don't have a case and today's testimony proved it.
Good to have you, sir.
Who is right on this? It's hard to keep track of it. But you're of the opinion that no case was proven here?
REP. TOM MCCLINTOCK, R-CALIF.: Well, I'm not privy to the discussions today. I sit on the Judiciary Committee. I wasn't involved in that hearing.
But I can tell you this. The Constitution is very clear. The president has broad range of authority over the conduct of our foreign affairs, and is commanded by the Constitution to take care that the laws be faithfully executed.
For the president to request the cooperation of a foreign government in an ongoing investigation involving corruption between the officials of that government and ours is not only fully within his authority and responsibility. He'd be derelict if he didn't.
And, in fact, there were three leading U.S. senators last year who wrote to the Ukrainian government asking for their cooperation in the Mueller investigation.
What is the difference between that and the president asking for their cooperation in the follow-up investigation? The only difference I can see is, the president actually had the authority and the constitutional responsibility to do so.
CAVUTO: Timing is everything, as you know, sir.
And the fear was that by involving another sovereign power in another U.S. election, at the very least, it looked bad. Do you think that part looked bad?
MCCLINTOCK: You know, it's true the president has never had an untreated or unspoken thought.
(LAUGHTER)
MCCLINTOCK: And I think the wording could be -- could be construed as somewhat ham-handed.
But what he's requesting is not assistance in his campaign. What he's requesting is the cooperation of governments to assist in the investigation of corruption by U.S. officials of -- in the last administration.
And don't forget, much of this Russian collusion hoax that was used to interfere with our election in 2016 and then to obstruct the lawfully elected president of the United States, a lot of that began with Ukrainian intelligence agencies.
And we have a responsibility to get to the bottom of it, find out who was responsible in that government and in ours, and hold them fully accountable.
CAVUTO: Do you look at this quid pro quo or this relationship, that it's one thing if it involves aid that might be delayed or denied a country.
Certainly, when it came to aid that Ukraine was looking for, it was ultimately not denied. They got it, albeit a little late, but they got it. But that the real quid pro quo here is getting that, for want of a better term, dirt on the Bidens, and that that is going to be slippery for him once impeachment proceedings likely continue?
MCCLINTOCK: Well, first of all, that was -- that was never mentioned in the conversation that has given rise to all of this.
Secondly...
CAVUTO: Well, he was clearly asking for something, right?
MCCLINTOCK: Secondly -- well, no, he -- he was asking for their cooperation in an ongoing investigation involving corruption of officials of both of our countries.
(CROSSTALK)
CAVUTO: And a man who could be his next opponent in the presidential election, right?
MCCLINTOCK: That -- that's true.
But, remember, these -- these investigations, yes, they involve his -- his potential rival, but they are also very, very serious, going to the heart of the use of government power, both by our government and perhaps by foreign governments, to intervene in the 2016 election.
The president has a responsibility to look into that.
CAVUTO: All right.
MCCLINTOCK: And remember this. You have a new administration coming in, in Ukraine that was elected specifically to clean up corruption.
The president needs to know that they're serious about that before he sends hundreds of millions of dollars to that government. So, I don't -- I -- I think they have got a very weak case. And I think they know they have got a very weak case.
How else do you explain Adam Schiff's...
CAVUTO: All right.
MCCLINTOCK: ... creating a fabricated narrative, when he had the actual transcript right in front of him?
CAVUTO: Sir, thank you very much for taking the time. I appreciate it.
MCCLINTOCK: My pleasure. Thanks for having me.
CAVUTO: Well, Democrats say that today's testimony by the former U.S. envoy to Ukraine confirms their case.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ADAM SCHIFF, D-CALIF.: Once again to have the United States suggesting, urging a foreign country to interfere in our presidential elections.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAVUTO: Now to Chad Pergram on Capitol Hill.
He's sort of been keeping track of this and who has the edge in what and what's happening now.
What can you tell us, Chad?
CHAD PERGRAM, SENIOR CAPITOL HILL PRODUCER: Well, just behind me a couple of steps here is Lee Zeldin, Republican congressman from Long Island.
He's been in this meeting with Kurt Volker, the U.N. envoy, for most of the day. He just appeared at these cameras a couple of moments ago. And he was asked, you know, what's going on in there?
And he says -- quote -- "This is blowing a hole in the Democrats' case."
Now, we don't know what's being said. Jim Jordan, Republican congressman from Ohio, came out a little bit earlier, and he said that he found Mr. Volker to be very impressive.
We haven't really heard from the Democrats here. Again, the take is slightly different. Adam Schiff, the chair of the Intelligence Committee, came out a few hours ago and he said this reinforces that they're trying to interfere in the elections.
Now, coming up tomorrow is going to be a key date. A week ago, Adam Schiff, the chair of the Intelligence Committee, along with the chairs of two other committees involved in this transcribed interview today with Volker, they set a deadline for Mike Pompeo, the secretary of state, to comply with a subpoena for documents.
Based on some of the things that Pompeo has said, we don't think that there's going to be compliance. Now, why is that important? We don't know. They said that end of the day, first thing in the morning. Just said by the 4th of October.
This is important, Neil, because, if they don't comply, as the Democrats began to write their articles of impeachment, they could use that as justification for a contempt -- or -- excuse me -- an obstruction of Congress article.
We saw that with Richard Nixon, that that was one of the articles of impeachment in 1974 that the House Judiciary Committee crafted. So if they don't get the information, they could incorporate that into that.
And Congressman Zeldin is still going here. One of the things I would like to know and I'd like to ask him here is, what if they don't hear from Mike Pompeo tomorrow and the State Department? What if there is exculpatory information that's not there?
That's something that Democrats and Republicans, frankly, would like to have. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, she talked about that the other day at her press conference, saying that the president ought to have the right to defend himself against these potential charges -- Neil.
CAVUTO: Here we go. All right, Chad, thank you very much, Chad Pergram on Capitol Hill.
Well, forget about who the president was talking to and when. Signs today he's going to keep pitching foreign leaders to make his case and get answers on anything Biden.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: China should start an investigation into the Bidens, because what happened in China is just about as bad as what happened with -- with Ukraine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAVUTO: All right, that makes three countries that we know to whom the president has reached out to help sort out anything they might have on Joe Biden or his son Hunter.
To our Judge Andrew Napolitano on a president doubling down, tripling down on something the president insists is on the up and up.
Judge Andrew Napolitano, what do you think?
ANDREW NAPOLITANO, JUDICIAL ANALYST: Well, I'm not sure I understand where the president is going with this.
And I have great respect for Congressman McClintock, whom you interviewed right before our colleague Chad Pergram, but a fair reading of the transcript of the conversation with the president, in which we now know there were gaps -- and that's another issue that the Congress can wrestle with -- is, hey, there's $391 million here, but, first, I need a favor.
And that's what the issue is, holding up military aid in return for a personal favor of investigating Joe Biden or bringing dirt on Biden's son.
I have to challenge Congressman McClintock on one issue. There is no criminal investigation of Joe Biden at the present time. The president was suggesting the generation of one in the Ukraine. There's no -- there's none going on here.
And I don't know if the president knows that. And I don't know if Congressman McClintock knows that, but the attorney general does.
CAVUTO: Well, he's making it clear it should, right? And he's looking for all the help he can get, even today adding China to that list.
So whatever he's doing, he's not doing it in secret. He's being very public about it.
NAPOLITANO: Well...
CAVUTO: What do you make of that?
NAPOLITANO: In his view, apparently, in the president's view, asking a foreign government to investigate a domestic political opponent is not troublesome or problematic.
The problem with that is the statute, which says, soliciting, asking for aid in a domestic political campaign, whether the aid is delivered or not, is a criminal event. That's clear in the statute. Whether the aid is delivered or not, asking for it is impermissible.
CAVUTO: What if you get the information you want?
NAPOLITANO: Well, that makes it even more of an issue, because then it's a -- then it's a benefit to the campaign from a foreign source, which is also prohibited in the statute.
CAVUTO: And the president must know that, or at least even the risk of the appearance, right?
NAPOLITANO: Well, that's -- that's why the interview with the whistle- blower is going to be key, because the whistle-blower says there was a debate in the White House in which some of the president's advisers said, hey, wait a minute, we can't ask for this. The president decided to ask for it anyway.
What was the president told? Did he understand it was against the law? His oath is to uphold the law, not to break the law.
CAVUTO: So when the president says, Judge, as he did kind of during the Mueller probe, it's a witch-hunt, et cetera, but he was very out in the open.
No one -- he wasn't doing anything sneaky or Nixonian behind the scenes or whatever you want to call it. And then he did it again today, doubled down, tripled down, on the heels of hearing that he was petitioning the Australian prime minister to debunk, if these reports are true, the Mueller probe.
It's all out there.
NAPOLITANO: Yes.
CAVUTO: So does that make a difference?
NAPOLITANO: Well, in the president's view, he has nothing to hide, he is transparent, and he's not, as you say, going behind anybody's back.
He must be getting advice from some source that there's no problem asking a foreign government to help in a domestic political campaign.
CAVUTO: Where do you think this is going?
NAPOLITANO: I think the votes to -- and, of course, you have a Democratic congressman from New York City coming on in a few minutes, for whom I have a great deal of respect.
I think the votes for impeachment are probably there. I also think that until the House...
CAVUTO: Two hundred eighteen votes are there?
NAPOLITANO: Yes.
Until the House votes to trigger a formal impeachment investigation, the president's going to resist. Once the impeachment becomes formal, he loses a lot of those privileges, and the House has the upper hand, because once they vote to do it, they have an absolute right to do it under the Constitution.
CAVUTO: But they have to vote for that first, before they get to that step?
NAPOLITANO: Correct.
CAVUTO: OK.
NAPOLITANO: Right now, it's six committees acting on their own, in their in -- their basis, in their category as an oversight over the executive branch.
CAVUTO: Wow.
NAPOLITANO: But once they trigger impeachment, they acquire a lot more authority, and the president loses a lot of privileges.
CAVUTO: Wow. We will see what happens next.
Judge, thank you very much, my friend.
NAPOLITANO: Pleasure, Neil.
CAVUTO: In the meantime, remember yesterday's big sell-off after we learned the manufacturing sector was slowing?
Word today the services sector is not doing much better, but a very different reaction, and we think we know why -- after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAVUTO: You know, you would never know.
For a while, we were down more than 300 points on the Dow, now, just like yesterday, on some grim economic news, but, unlike yesterday, very different reaction when all was said and done today, because investors this time focused on some potential good news. Wonder what that could be.
To FOX Biz all-stars Susan Li, Jackie DeAngelis, and Lizzy "Wicked" MacDonald.
So, Lizzy, I guess we had a services sector reading that also showed things slowing down. That would knock the kablooey of stocks. Then they recovered, up 122 at the end of the day. Is it that the Federal Reserve comes to the rescue? What?
ELIZABETH MACDONALD, CORRESPONDENT: Yes, likely the ladder, right, because -- so, this was supposed to be a down day. It was supposed to be a really ugly day on the market.
CAVUTO: Right.
MACDONALD: The manufacturing and services number are ugly. Neither of them are in recession.
The U.S. exports number in manufacturing is in recession. So the issue is, it's an ugly number. Do we keep getting down and down and tariff our way into recession? That's the issue right now I think that the White House is also dealing with.
CAVUTO: You know, we have services and manufacturing sector off their highs and in the case of factories going the other way.
SUSAN LI, CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
CAVUTO: But, by and large, you get the sense that most investors feel, you know, the overall economy is still fine.
LI: Well, manufacturing at its weakest in nine years, services at its weakest in three years, CEO, CFO confidence at its weakest in three years, and spending, by the way, at its weakest in six months.
I mean, there's a lot of indications that we're in this slowing environment, right, not caused by domestic issues, because it's obviously a globalized world. But it's all going to be OK if we get a pretty good print tomorrow on those non-farm payrolls, right?
CAVUTO: Yes, we should talk the jobs report is out tomorrow, Jackie. That's getting even more scrutiny now, because everyone's hanging their hats on that's got to confirm something good is going on right?
JACKIE DEANGELIS, FOX BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: It's got to. Hopefully, it will.
But ADP was a little weak too. And that sort of sets the stage for the jobs report.
CAVUTO: ADP is a private payroll look.
DEANGELIS: Private payrolls.
And so I think what investors are expecting here is the fact that the global economy is slowing, and we are slowing down with it. It doesn't mean we're not growing. It doesn't mean that things are terrible here, but it means that, as we discussed a little earlier, maybe there's some cracks in the armor.
I think what's going to also be important is earnings...
CAVUTO: Yes.
DEANGELIS: ... because the -- how it trickles down to the bottom line.
Are these companies going to start finally, as a result of trade tensions and tariffs, to guide forward and say, we're really worried, we're taking our numbers down? Remember, when Apple did it, it wasn't a pretty picture.
CAVUTO: That's right.
LI: And it may not be surprising.
CAVUTO: And they get worried.
LI: Yes. It may not be surprising to you that expectations are set very low once again for earnings season.
CAVUTO: Right.
LI: And it feels kind of like a trick. When you have low expectations, then corporations ease -- it makes it easier for them to look better, right?
Well, guess what? Going into the fourth quarter, it's looking pretty dismal once again. But I bet you that corporations, they will come up with some excuse anyways, whether it's the strong dollar, whether it's trade tensions or China. But when the bar is set low, we know companies tend...
(CROSSTALK)
CAVUTO: Hey, I built a career on it.
(LAUGHTER)
CAVUTO: But, no, you know, it's funny.
I used to do this with my parents. When the report card comes out, it's going to be B's and F's.
(LAUGHTER)
CAVUTO: And if I had C's and D's, they thought I was a genius.
MACDONALD: Yes.
CAVUTO: I know you can't relate to that.
MACDONALD: That's low enough up for a caterpillar to step over that expectation.
CAVUTO: Exactly.
(LAUGHTER)
CAVUTO: But I'm just saying now, another thing that was out there was the Federal Reserve will almost have to cut.
The expectations, people will put money on this. Lizzy, you're saying, yes, they're going to cut rates. It's about 90 percent certain now vs. 40 percent just a week ago.
MACDONALD: Yes.
But as I have said before, this is like the United States of amnesia. I mean, we have been 10 years that the Federal Reserve being the first responders every time there's a hiccup or hiccup in the economy.
CAVUTO: They don't have a lot of room.
MACDONALD: That's exactly right.
And we know that corporate borrowing rates are at 1956 era lows. So how much lower can you go? I mean, so this is the thing. Where do we go from here? We were told we were going to have 4 percent GDP growth, even 5 percent GDP growth.
LI: Wow.
MACDONALD: I mean, we need a tailwind to pop it -- the economy forward. There's a lot of headwinds right now.
The profit margins, though, for S&P 500 companies are coming in still sweet at 12 percent. That's pretty decent on average.
CAVUTO: And the president needs that running for reelection, right? You need it, because this has been his clarion call.
(CROSSTALK)
LI: Right.
Well, obviously, we have cyclicality as well. I mean, do...
CAVUTO: We don't use big words here.
(LAUGHTER)
LI: Oh, sorry, right, too many syllables there.
CAVUTO: Right.
LI: But, historically, we don't have economic expansions lasting 10 years.
CAVUTO: True.
LI: However, big CEOs have told us, is there really a timeline to the end? I mean, do these booms die of old age? Not necessarily.
CAVUTO: But it does affect their plans, right? And they will -- they will hold back if they're not sure how things are going to work out. They're uncertain about trade, uncertain about what's happening across the globe.
DEANGELIS: Sure. It's hard to invest.
CAVUTO: It can feed on itself.
DEANGELIS: It's hard to plan for the future.
We saw already a slew of retail companies saying, we're going to close down some of our brick-and-mortar stores just to make sure that some of that profit can come down to the bottom line. That could impact jobs, to your previous point.
CAVUTO: All right.
DEANGELIS: And just one final point on the Fed, to speak to what Liz was saying.
The Fed raised four times last year. We got two cuts already. If we get two more cuts, we're right back where we started.
CAVUTO: That's a good point. That's a very good point.
DEANGELIS: And so you have to wonder, what happened here?
CAVUTO: Very good.
All right, ladies, thank you all very much, stars of FOX Business, a brand- new look and everything else. It's there for you when you need it, in English.
(LAUGHTER)
CAVUTO: Meanwhile, one of the last Democratic holdouts on backing impeachment, even if it means constituents might not back him.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAVUTO: Welcome back, everyone. I'm Neil Cavuto.
Well, New York Congressman Max Rose is one of those moderate Democrats who managed to flip a safe Republican seat in a district the Republican president, by the way, won handily.
So it is understandable he might be deemed reluctant to pile on the impeach Trump bandwagon, that is, until now, because now Congressman Rose is for at least an impeachment probe.
He joins us now to tell us why.
Good to see you.
REP. MAX ROSE, D-N.Y.: Neil, it's good to see you too.
CAVUTO: So there is a difference, right?
ROSE: Certainly.
CAVUTO: You're pro-probe. That doesn't mean you're necessarily jumping the gun and saying, impeach the guy.
ROSE: Absolutely not.
And, quite frankly, the Democrats who are saying impeach him right away, who, quite frankly, were supportive of impeachment even before they got sworn in, they're absolutely wrong.
They're just as wrong as the Republicans who ignore and dismiss anything this president does because he's a Republican.
At this stage, though, as I announced last night, I certainly believe, especially as a consequence of the pure, unadulterated deflections and obstruction practiced by this administration, that an impeachment inquiry is appropriate.
CAVUTO: All right, now, in your district, you won nicely. The president also carried the district nicely.
ROSE: Sure.
CAVUTO: And I'm wondering if some of your constituents have mixed feelings about what you're doing.
ROSE: Look, I'm sure some people are happy about this, some people are upset about this.
Along with my pledge last night to support pursuing an impeachment inquiry, I also pledged that we will not let this completely captivate our agenda. We have got to maintain our focus on things like building a seawall on the East Shore of Staten Island, stemming the flow of fentanyl into this country.
CAVUTO: But none of that is happening.
ROSE: Well, those are all things that I have actually have accomplished already.
CAVUTO: I know. I know.
But I'm just saying, the rap against Democrats on this is, they're so zealous to get rid of this guy...
ROSE: Yes. Sure.
CAVUTO: ... that they're not paying attention to the job at hand.
ROSE: I think that that's ironic.
And you know I really have very little allegiance to the Democratic Party. The president retweeted a couple of videos about me, saying, Max Rose, only investigations, doesn't want to get anything done.
You should actually play it one day. It's such a lame video. But they deserve some free press.
CAVUTO: But how did your constituents react to that?
(CROSSTALK)
ROSE: No, but here's the thing, though, that I'm trying to say.
CAVUTO: Yes.
ROSE: Let's think back to 2016, 2017, 2018, when the Republicans had the keys to the castle. Pretty much the only thing they accomplished was a tax scam, a tax giveaway to the wealthiest people amongst us.
We have a problem with government today. We have a problem with hyper partisanship. We have a problem that we're not getting enough done. We need an infrastructure bill. And I lay the blame at that at the Democrats too that we haven't passed that.
We got to pass something on drug crisis.
CAVUTO: But do you fear the Democrats look too zealous doing this?
ROSE: No.
CAVUTO: Just as Republicans were too zealous going after Bill Clinton? It came back to bite them.
ROSE: Well, no.
Right now, that is up to the Democrats, how we are perceived going forward. What we have to do is, we have to pursue a fair, balanced, reasonable approach that doesn't jump to any conclusions. We have to earn the trust of the American people.
CAVUTO: But are you worried that it's going along party lines?
ROSE: Well...
CAVUTO: And what changed things for Richard Nixon is when Republicans started saying, you got to go.
ROSE: Sure.
CAVUTO: Now, I don't hear that, outside of reservations by people like Mitt Romney, maybe Susan Collins. I'm not hearing that.
ROSE: It's interesting.
I think that you can pursue a nonpartisan effort, and Republicans can still choose to stay out of it. And that's up to them.
CAVUTO: But did you face any pressure, Congressman, you have got to do this, toe the party line?
(CROSSTALK)
ROSE: So, no, you face pressure on both sides. That's the nature of this business.
CAVUTO: Yes.
ROSE: I would note to you that there's 19 Republicans out there that are holding seats right now that Donald Trump won by less than he's -- than he won my seat.
CAVUTO: Very good point.
ROSE: So, they should be under less pressure than I am.
CAVUTO: And there are 18 Democrats who win in districts the president won.
ROSE: Yes.
CAVUTO: And I'm wondering, do they feel the pressure?
Because I have talked to a couple of them who say, to a man or woman -- there are three women -- who were saying, no, I'm going to do the right thing, whatever it is, but, right now, I don't want to jump the impeachment gun here.
ROSE: Well, what -- what I believe at this point is that, look, I have sworn an oath twice in my life to the Constitution.
(CROSSTALK)
CAVUTO: I thought you were going to say just swore.
(LAUGHTER)
ROSE: I did that earlier too.
CAVUTO: Fine. Fine.
ROSE: But, look, I swore an oath when I enlisted in the military. And I swore an oath earlier this year when I became a United States congressman.
I swore that oath to the Constitution, not to politics. We have to do what we think is right. And there are serious questions out there right now that are backed by credible allegations.
CAVUTO: Yes.
ROSE: Did the president or not use the power of the state to advance his or her own self-interests?
CAVUTO: Do you think he did?
ROSE: Well, I think that there is certainly a credible allegation.
The whistle-blower report out there right now is backed up by the transcript, backed up by the fact that server existed and the transcript was placed on it.
But there's calls...
CAVUTO: So, it's more in some of the cover-up and obstruction potentially that is an issue to you, not so much the conversation?
ROSE: No, both are.
CAVUTO: OK.
ROSE: The conversation is an incredible issue for me. Rudy Giuliani's meetings are an incredible issue for me. What happened thereafter is as well.
There's a pathway to an investigation that we have to proceed with on a fair and balanced manner.
But you know what I often hear in response to this? Well, look, Donald Trump did something wrong, it's clear, but doesn't everybody do it, and he's just being singled out? This is politics, Max.
The American people have lost faith in their elected officials. We have to...
CAVUTO: Well, they are cynical about Democrats' intentions and Republicans' intentions.
ROSE: They're cynical about everybody, and rightfully so, rightfully so.
And I believe, for that reason, that we should initiate the most expansive anti-corruption effort in the history of this country, so we can finally clean up our politics and earn the trust of the American people again, so they will think that, when we proceed with something like this, we're being fair.
CAVUTO: If they throw you out of office because you're standing on this principle, would you still be OK with it?
ROSE: So, that's an extraordinary hypothetical.
CAVUTO: Well, it happens.
ROSE: And we will -- if they -- if I don't win reelection, and all the while, I followed my ethics, I tried to serve the people who elected me, and I upheld my oath to the Constitution, then I will leave office with my head held high.
Maybe you will hire me as your special assistant, buddy.
(CROSSTALK)
CAVUTO: Or maybe you become a doctor.
(LAUGHTER)
ROSE: Like my mother wants me to be.
CAVUTO: Like your mother wants you to be.
(LAUGHTER)
CAVUTO: All right, seriously, Congressman, thank you very much for taking the time.
ROSE: Neil, it's good to see you, buddy.
CAVUTO: Very, very good seeing you.
All right, in the meantime, you can hear this debate royal that rages right now. The president calls his latest probe another witch-hunt, and the press pounding it another case of fake news.
But it's how he is taking on the press that's very, very different, and to hear even his supporters tell it, very, very worrisome. They think something's wrong -- after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAVUTO: All right, vaping-related illnesses are now topping over 1,000 in 48 states and the U.S. Virgin Islands. That is according to the CDC.
What isn't clear is what, if anything, we can do to stall that -- after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAVUTO: Well, he's called them fake news, but, lately, President Trump has added something else, very real rage.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: That was a big win for the United States, right?
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: You never had wins with other presidents, did you? But we're having a lot of wins at the WTO since I became president.
QUESTION: This was a case that started, I think, 10 or 15 years ago.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Excuse me. The wins are now.
Listen, listen, are you ready? We have the president of Finland. Ask him a question.
QUESTION: I have one for him. I just wanted to follow up on the one I asked you, which was, what did you want...
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Did you hear me? Did you hear me? Ask him a question.
QUESTION: I will, but...
TRUMP: I have given you a long answer. Ask this gentleman a question.
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: Don't be rude.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAVUTO: And the Finland president is there, look at the time.
(LAUGHTER)
CAVUTO: Anyway, Spectator USA columnist Daniella Greenbaum is here. We have got Iona College political science Professor Jeanne Zaino, and GOP pollster Lee Carter.
Lee, it's now getting awkward. What do you make of it?
LEE CARTER, REPUBLICAN POLLSTER: It's getting award, but don't you expect -- this is what we expect.
I mean, this is why this president was elected. If he wasn't going to get angry, he wouldn't be being true to himself. If he wasn't going to behave this way, we would be like, what's wrong? So I think that he's doing the right thing.
CAVUTO: So, maybe this is showing his best stripes.
What do you think?
BO JEANNE ZAINO, IONA COLLEGE: Well, I don't know about his best stripes. It's showing his stripes.
I agree. I don't think it's a surprise. But I do think...
CAVUTO: But it's more edgy than it used to be, right?
ZAINO: It is edgier.
I do think it is designed to gin up the base. I think the real danger here for the president is if moderate Republicans start to become frustrated with the rhetoric, the B.S. comment the other day. Now we have gone to corrupt media.
You can go on and on.
(CROSSTALK)
CAVUTO: You know, you can say that word on cable. You can say it on cable. But we're not. We're not going to do that.
(CROSSTALK)
CAVUTO: What do you think of it, just the tone?
DANIELLA GREENBAUM DAVIS, SPECTATOR USA: Look, I think the reality is you're obviously correct that this is totally in character for him. Does that mean it's the right thing to do? I would argue not.
And I do think that there is a concern that moderate Republicans are going to say, look, we don't all want to decide not to run for reelection. Some of us want to stay in Congress. We don't want to support this guy. We don't want to tie ourselves to him. So we're going to actually come out and say, this is disappointing.
CAVUTO: Well, he still enjoys 95 percent approval among Republican voters, right?
CARTER: That's right.
And this is a really hard thing, because I get it. I mean, most people that support the president don't support him because of his personality. They support him because of his policies. That's why he is who he is. And that's why people hold a nose and vote for him again.
The alternative is what? I mean, what are we expecting moderate conservatives to do? Go out and vote for Elizabeth Warren, should she be the candidate?
CAVUTO: And this isn't faux rage on his part.
CARTER: No.
CAVUTO: He really is pissed, right?
So, if you know that's the case, he's not hiding it. I'm just worried whether he's upped the ante to the point where fake news, fake news, fake news, but this...
ZAINO: It's corrupt news now, Neil. It's corrupt. It's no longer fake. It's corrupt.
CAVUTO: Well, but do you worry that you can kind of risk jumping the shark here?
ZAINO: You can.
And this is where I go back and say absolutely, he has a right to be frustrated. He feels like he is being criticized, that he's being accused of something he didn't do.
CAVUTO: But taking it out on this reporter. Ask a question!
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
ZAINO: Ask a question. The poor Finnish president.
CAVUTO: Right.
ZAINO: But I think the real...
(CROSSTALK)
CAVUTO: That guy looked really comfortable.
(CROSSTALK)
CARTER: Oh, my gosh. Poor guy.
ZAINO: I think the danger here is that...
CAVUTO: What is Finnish for, get me out of here, right? Holy cow.
(LAUGHTER)
GREENBAUM DAVIS: The reality is, he's actually making his base happy by going after the press.
CARTER: Yes.
GREENBAUM DAVIS: But he's obviously not doing himself any favors, right?
Whether this should be the case or not, it's not like he's engendering any goodwill with the press by continuing...
(CROSSTALK)
CAVUTO: But he didn't have goodwill when he got elected, right?
And he has just flouted that in the press' face.
ZAINO: But you know what the problem here is?
When you're in a crisis, you have to have somebody serve as your crisis manager. You cannot do it alone. The president loves to do all this stuff alone. He usually does it brilliantly. This is too hot a fire for him to fight on his own.
He needs a staff. He needs a war room. He needs support.
(CROSSTALK)
CAVUTO: Well, he can argue it's always worked for him, right?
CARTER: This is the time for discipline, if there ever was a time for discipline.
He needs to be more measured.
ZAINO: Yes.
CARTER: But the bottom line is, I don't -- the same rules that apply to everybody else don't apply to this guy.
It's like a totally different game.
CAVUTO: Well, he also -- you could flip that around, because his view is he isn't treated fairly and that he is -- if you take him at face value -- annoyed and actually flabbergasted that, right after the Mueller probe and thought that was done, this comes along.
And it's just -- you could tell it's just igniting him.
GREENBAUM DAVIS: But the thing is, he actually makes that case pretty compellingly.
So he says to the American public, I'm not treated fairly. I'm constantly gone after. And so whether or not this impeachment proceeding actually goes forward, there's going to be a large cross-section of the American public that says, well, this is just like all the other things they went after him for.
CARTER: Exactly.
GREENBAUM DAVIS: It's no more valid.
And that may not be true.
CAVUTO: Do any of you think he's snapping, though, here, that...
ZAINO: I think he's been unhinged the whole time.
CAVUTO: Well, you're a hater.
(LAUGHTER)
CAVUTO: But, no, you know what I'm saying? Like, we all get to much pressure and all that.
ZAINO: I think he has to be very careful about not alienating moderates and independents who so far have said, you know what, we don't want Elizabeth Warren. We don't want Bernie Sanders. We will stick by this guy, despite the tweets.
CAVUTO: I don't know if independents are saying that, are they?
CARTER: No.
CAVUTO: No?
CARTER: I don't -- I don't think that independents are giving up on him yet, though.
(CROSSTALK)
ZAINO: But he can't get over -- he can't jump the shark, to your point, where they were they start to move away.
CARTER: I don't know if now's the time for him to back down. I mean, they say the best defense is a good offense, and he's just fighting back right now. He's doing the counterpunch.
CAVUTO: Do you have any question for anyone else?
(LAUGHTER)
CAVUTO: I don't know.
CARTER: See? It works.
(CROSSTALK)
CAVUTO: Exactly. I stopped you in your tracks.
(LAUGHTER)
CAVUTO: That's last time we will deal with it.
Ladies, thank you all very, very much.
Meanwhile, they're all saying, not coming back.
(LAUGHTER)
CAVUTO: And to think that Kurt Volker was acting as the president's special envoy for Ukraine for free. It was an unpaid part-time position, now a full-time national obsession.
Talk about sacrifice.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JIM JORDAN, R-OH: Ambassador Volker has been very impressive and, as I said, has said nothing that -- nothing that coincides with what the Democrats are saying with their whole impeachment narrative.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAVUTO: Republican Congress Jim Jordan praising a key witness from the Ukraine whistle-blower complaint, former U.S. envoy to Ukraine Kurt Volker, who is meeting as we speak with lawmakers behind closed doors.
That's a familiar theme throughout all of this.
The former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine John Herbst has known Volker for over a decade now, maybe can offer insight into the man.
Very good to have you, Ambassador. Thanks for taking the time.
JOHN HERBST, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: Happy to be here.
CAVUTO: All right, does he seem like the kind of guy who would be in on some sinister plot? What do you think?
HERBST: Volker is a top-notch diplomat, very skillfully promoting American interests in Ukraine.
CAVUTO: So he's there on -- explain this to me, Ambassador -- on a voluntary basis, unpaid basis. How does that work? What's that about?
HERBST: Well, this is unusual.
But he had a job which he liked. And the department only wanted him to work part-time. So they worked out an arrangement. So I don't think -- see anything peculiar about that. It's suited both parties.
CAVUTO: Got it. OK.
So his familiarity with the whistle-blower -- and we don't know a lot about what he is sharing with investigators and Democrats on the committee. But is it your sense that he'd be a straight shooter about it, that he would say, even if it meant saying something derogatory about the president, that he would do just that?
HERBST: He's a consummate professional and he is a straight shooter.
If they ask him a question, he will answer it truthfully, as best he can.
CAVUTO: Would he be aware of efforts to take some of the information or details or logs from that call, tapes -- not tapes and all, but anything having to do with it, put it on a different server, all of that stuff that you have heard about?
Would he be aware of that?
HERBST: He's a very savvy guy. He would understand the various political motivations of different actors.
But whether or not he would know about technical things done to the transcript, I suspect not.
CAVUTO: So, Ambassador, help me with just the logistics here.
I mean, in that capacity, you would be aware of what the president is saying. You might even be in on the call. Do you know whether he in fact was?
HERBST: I don't know if he was on the call. If he was not, presumably, somebody would have given him a briefing.
Whether or not that briefing would have been full and complete is also a separate question. It's hard to say.
CAVUTO: Yes, you're right.
HERBST: But if the system works the right way, he would know exactly what was said.
CAVUTO: So maybe tap your -- just your diplomatic mind here.
HERBST: Right.
CAVUTO: Is it unsavory, because that's the way the Democrats certainly presenting, at a minimum -- they go so far as to say impeachable -- for the president to mention a prospective opponent, and urging a sovereign nation to involve itself potentially in the next U.S. election?
On any level, is that bad?
HERBST: I would not comment on whether or not it is impeachable, but certainly I think the president was off-base.
People who know Ukraine well know that what Biden did in trying to get rid of a corrupt prosecutor general was what the entire international community promoting reform in Ukraine thought was the right thing.
CAVUTO: So the fact that we're -- a lot of people are just coming to understand that Joe Biden and his son Hunter had -- or at least Hunter had this relationship with this gas concern, a lot of people are trying to go back and say, all right, investigate what the president said, look maybe a little bit more into Hunter Biden and his relationship with that government at the time, is that fair, investigate both?
HERBST: There are two separate issues.
Whether or not Hunter Biden should have been on the board of that company is one issue. But regarding what Vice President Biden was doing, he was going after a prosecutor general who was believed strongly to be corrupt, and who, in fact, was not pursuing investigations into corrupt companies.
CAVUTO: Right. No, I remember quite well.
I guess what they're saying as well, though, as you know, is that it's waking people up, well, what was his son doing there in the first place? And should that have been investigated? And on and on, we go.
HERBST: Well, follows a sad American political tradition.
CAVUTO: Yes.
HERBST: Billy Carter, Hugh Rodham, Neil Bush.
CAVUTO: No, you're exactly right. It goes back a long ways.
HERBST: That's right.
CAVUTO: Sir, thank you very, very much. We will see what happens here.
HERBST: My pleasure. Thank you.
CAVUTO: All right, thank you.
Meanwhile, U.S. U.S. Attorney General Bill Barr wants Facebook to give law enforcement a way to read encrypted messages sent by users. That might be a toughie for Facebook.
We will see.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAVUTO: All right, you might want to just call it the college admissions parent trap, I think part three, part four, part five. I'm having trouble keeping count.
FOX News' Molly Line in Boston with the latest parent in big trouble -- Molly.
MOLLY LINE, CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
Neil, this is number four, the fourth parent to be sentenced, Gordon Caplan now slated to self-report to prison on November 6, sentenced to one month behind bars on this single count, a conspiracy and fraud charge.
Prosecutors argued in court today that, unlike others embroiled in the scandal who first engaged with Singer for legitimate services, Caplan's relationship with the scheme's mastermind was about fraud from the very start.
Caplan's attorneys, though, argued that Rick Singer is the real con man here and noted that Caplan has repeatedly apologized. He did so again today outside of the courthouse.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORDON CAPLAN, DEFENDANT: I fully respect the decision of the court today. I am deeply and profoundly sorry for being involved in this -- this mess.
I am focused now on doing everything I can to redeem some portion of my good name.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LINE: It's hard to say what exactly these sentences handed down thus far mean for the nearly 20 parents that are inching closer to trial, including Lori Loughlin and her fashion designer husband, Mossimo Giannulli.
Their cases slated to go to trial, if they reach trial, sometime next year in 2020. Neil, this case goes forward.
CAVUTO: All right, Molly, thank you very, very much.
Well, you know the saying put your money where your mouth is?
My next guest is doing just that when it comes to his beloved Houston Astros to win it all, the World Series. And you won't believe the amount of money he's putting down to make it happen, or hope to happen.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAVUTO: No, they call him Mattress Mack, businessman Jim McAlvane -- or McIngvale, I should say.
He's a Houston icon, best known, you might recall, for sheltering thousands of Houston residents in his Gallery Furniture store right after Hurricane Harvey.
And now he's putting his money behind the -- well, the Houston Astros, another passion of his, favored to win it all at the World Series.
Of course, I think the New York Yankees stop them first.
(LAUGHTER)
CAVUTO: But, anyway, Mattress Mack has put down bets of close to $5 million for the Astros to win it all.
He joins us right now.
Jim, good to have you back.
JIM MCINGVALE, OWNER, GALLERY FURNITURE: Hi, Neil. Great to be on the show.
CAVUTO: And on a much happier note. And very good to see you again.
Why are you doing this? I mean, you must be very confident.
MCINGVALE: We do a lot of wacky furniture promotions.
So the deal is, you came in to buy a Tempur-Pedic mattress, $3,000 or better, for the last several months, if the Astros win it all, you get the matches purchase free.
So making these big bets, $5 million worth of bets, is a way to hedge it off. So, if the Astros do win, then the customers get the mattress for free.
CAVUTO: All right, now, you know, anything can happen. Everyone starts off even in the playoffs right now. Houston has had a phenomenal year, but they could get cold, right?
MCINGVALE: Yes, anything can happen in baseball.
As Billy Beane said, playoff baseball is a crapshoot. But the Astros have a great chance. It will be interesting to see how they do against Tampa Bay and then see if they play the Yankees and Dodgers. So it's a lot of fun for our customers.
In brick-and-mortar retailing nowadays, we have to find new ways to be relevant. And having these promotions is a great way to stay relevant with our customers. And we're a huge Astros sponsor. And I'm a big Astros fan.
CAVUTO: All right, you might have a better record and maybe have an edge going in if you get to the Yankees. Of course, it ends there.
But leaving that aside, how are your customers reacting?
MCINGVALE: They love it. They love being able -- the fact they can by a mattress, and the worst that can happen is, they get the mattress, they get a great deal, a great night's sleep.
The best that can happen is, they get a great night's sleep and a free mattress. We did this in 2017, gave away about $13 million in free mattress when the Astros won it all that year. So hopefully this year we will give away a little more than that.
CAVUTO: Well, you have got a lot of goodwill in the community, and especially people remember how you were after Harvey and helping everyone out.
So there's obviously a lot of goodwill there. And, obviously, every time I have caught an Astros game, the stadium is always sold out. So there's no problem with that, from the earliest part of the year to now.
How do you think just fans are going to respond?
MCINGVALE: Fans respond great to it. The fans respond great to the fact that they can get a free mattress.
(LAUGHTER)
MCINGVALE: And they -- we're big Astros sponsors, so they -- the Astros are tremendously popular in Houston, just like the Yankees are in New York and New Jersey.
So riding on the Astros' tremendous success is a good thing for us to do as a retail business. It makes us very relevant and very popular with all of our customers.
CAVUTO: All right, it's a smooth strategy. You're on this network talking about it, a good businessman.
Jim, thank you very, very much. Good luck.
MCINGVALE: Thanks, Neil.
CAVUTO: Not too much luck, just a little luck. All right.
MCINGVALE: Go, Astros.
CAVUTO: There we go.
All right, in the meantime, just to let you know, we were up today. Of course, everything hinges tomorrow, with the Dow up today on the expectations of a rate cut and that better news is going to be coming.
We could get that in the employment report. That's due out bright and early tomorrow morning. That could set the tone for the markets and a lot of other things.
Here comes "The Five."
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