'Hannity' special: The Hunt for El Chapo

This is a rush transcript from "Hannity," July 17, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

SEAN HANNITY, HOST: Welcome to "Hannity." The notorious drug kingpin Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman is on the run after brazenly escaping from a Mexican prison.

Fox News senior correspondent Geraldo Rivera -- he traveled all the way to Mexico to cover this daring escape and the search for him -- Geraldo.

GERALDO RIVERA, FOX NEW SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: You know, Sean, this was, I think, the most extraordinary escape from a maximum security prison this century, at least. It was an act of engineering marvel. It was something that took well over a year of construction to move 2,000 tons of dirt.

It was a project that included the most extraordinary tunnel, escape tunnel, I have certainly ever seen. It is -- it far surpasses, Sean, the smugglers' tunnel that we see in Gaza, for example, or along the U.S. southern border.

Behind me is the escape house. That's the house where the tunnel exited. That's where El Chapo made his escape.

But follow me here to see how extraordinary that tunnel is. It runs under this field, through that person's house, under a railroad track three stories down, until you get to the prison that you see off in the distance. That is a distance of 1.5 kilometers. You see the three federal officers walking the road right now -- 1.5 kilometers or one mile.

Sean, this is amazing. And to think that nobody in authority was aware of this is something that smells fishy. It is an extraordinarily difficult thing to believe that in this dysfunctional and highly corrupt nation -- I love the Mexican people, but this government and previous governments have been very corrupt.

There's a malignancy to the corruption here, and there is a feeling, even among high-ranking authorities -- I'd like you to hear this before I take you inside the tunnel. Listen to what an opposition senator said about who he thinks is responsible, or at least knowledgeable, maybe even complicit in the great escape. Listen.


RIVERA (through translator): A lot of people are saying that the government probably had some participation in the escape. What do you say?

ALEJANDRO ENCINOS, MEXICAN OPPOSITION PARTY SENATOR (through translator):  I think the participation and collusion of different officials from various levels of authority is undeniable because independent of the technology, the engineering work, the resources involved in the construction of a tunnel of this nature -- it could not have been done without support and complicity of the authorities.

RIVERA (through translator): How high?

ENCINOS (through translator): I think it ranges from authorities inside the prison and the surveillance of the perimeter outside, to intelligence agencies of the Mexican state, and evidently, the heads of these organizations.


RIVERA: So incredibly, the opposition, at least, believes the government or high-ranking officials at the very minimum were involved in some way in El Chapo's great escape.

What is bitterly ironic is that it is the little people, the prison guards and the other prison officials, who are really being put through the wringer by interrogators. They have been held since Saturday night incommunicado behind the walls of the big house.

That has led their families to stage a protest outside the prison. Here are the families.


RIVERA (through translator): Why are you here?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): We are here because of our relatives of which we know nothing about since Saturday, others since Sunday. They have not let us see them. We haven't been able to go in, nor the lawyers. And today marks the 72 hours that according to law, they have to keep them detained without us seeing them or letting their attorneys be with them.


RIVERA: So an escape plot that required thousands of manhours, millions of dollars, took well over a year to construct -- it had to take over a year to construct, according to experts -- has led to what? It has led to El Chapo on the lam, and then without any real clues.

Let me take you now inside, if I may, Sean, inside the tunnel. It has to be seen to be believed. You go inside that place. That building, first of all, was built for the specific purpose of digging that tunnel. You go into the building. On the first floor, there is a waiting room, kind of, that has two big shaft entrances, one for ventilation, the other for the people, the workers to go down.

You go down to an intermediate level. In that intermediate level, there is a massive generator that was used to provide air-conditioning and lighting for the tunnel as it was being dug and for El Chapo as he made his way out.

Then from that intermediate level and the big generator and a power winch, as well, you go down approximately three stories to the actual tunnel, to the mile-long tunnel which has to really be seen to be believed.

Rails were laid in that tunnel. On those rails are three small carts, two of them to carry the sand that was being excavated. The other cart was a motorcycle rigged to provide power. So as they dug, they filled those small rail cars with the dirt. As they drove the motorcycle back, buckets were then used to take the dirt wheelbarrow by wheelbarrow out of there, 2,000 tons.

And when you see that tunnel, how it was reinforced, how it could hold a railroad passing over it, then to think, Sean, that that tunnel not only went into the appropriate location in the maximum security prison, but came up not merely in El Chapo's room, but precisely in the one location, two foot by two foot, that was his toilet area and shower, where they gave him just that little bit of privacy, as they do all prisoners, even the maximum security prisoners -- that one area not covered by the surveillance videocamera.

That's why now, in this now notorious video, you see El Chapo going to the bathroom, kind of disappears behind a half wall, and that's it. He's down the stairs three stories. He's onto that motorcycle. He's whisked a mile through that extraordinary tunnel. He comes up behind me at that house.

There are various accounts on how he got away from here, but rest assured, he's no longer in the neighborhood, Sean.

HANNITY: You know, Geraldo, boy, it's so reminiscent of when I was in Israel last summer and the Hamas tunnels into Israel that they were using to capture Israelis.

You know, there's so much to talk about here. I was in a drug warehouse on one of my many trips to the border, floor to ceiling drugs. It's estimated he is a multi-billionaire, perhaps. And it's estimated that he might be responsible for 34,000 deaths.

I want to ask about the corruption issue, and the corruption issue being nobody could do this without the consent of somebody involved here. And you know, two producers -- one we'll introduce in the next segment -- actually found him easily! And if they can find him, why can't law enforcement find him? They were able to find him, you know, fairly easily.

RIVERA: Sean, you mentioned the Gaza tunnels. Remember, the more modest drug-smuggling tunnels on the southern border. El Chapo was the tunnel master. He was the prince of tunnels. His Sinaloa cartel principally smuggled their drugs through tunnels.

So they put him in a prison surrounded by dirt, and apparently, no one thinks to think that El Chapo, the tunnel master, might dig a tunnel! That to me is one of the things that I find difficult to believe, at least the official version. It seems to me...

HANNITY: It's likely they did know, though, right?

RIVERA: ... almost inevitable that somebody knew.

HANNITY: Yes. All right, Geraldo, great reporting...

RIVERA: According to an opposition senator, they did.

HANNITY: All right, we're going to get back to Geraldo from Mexico later in the program.

But coming up next right here tonight on "Hannity"...


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Making billions of behalf of Chapo Guzman. I mean, you don't end up in Forbes magazine by not being a -- you know, a smart entrepreneur.


HANNITY: That was a clip from a documentary about the life of El Chapo.

Coming up next, you're going to meet the filmmaker who went inside the drug kingpin's world. And why, if they can find him, why can't law enforcement find him both in Mexico and the United States? You'll also hear from two former DEA agents who have tracked Guzman for years.

That and more on this special edition of "Hannity" as we continue.


RIVERA: This is the way they moved all that dirt, 2,000 tons of dirt. This is the rail system that they developed. (INAUDIBLE) This is one car, this is a second car. And pushing it all, this motorcycle.





UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a corporate operation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's no different than a Home Depot or Walmart, with a CEO and directors and financial staff. These are corporate infrastructures making millions on behalf of Chapo Guzman. I mean, you don't end up in Forbes magazine by not being a -- you know, a smart entrepreneur.


HANNITY: That was a clip from the documentary about El Chapo that is called "Drug Lord: The Legend of Shorty." Now, the film will air next Tuesday on PBS stations.

Joining me now is the film's director. Angus MacQueen is with us. Angus, how are you?


HANNITY: Tell us what you...

MACQUEEN: Thanks for having me on the show.

HANNITY: You're very welcome. And thank you. You know, I went to a drug warehouse, as I mentioned earlier, and I saw the drugs, floor to ceiling, the biggest warehouse you've ever seen. Those are only the drugs we confiscated.

What did you learn about how these drugs are penetrating into cities and towns big and small across the United States from him?

MACQUEEN: What did we learn? Well, it's something we've all known, that for decades, really, ever since the "war on drugs," quote, unquote, was declared, the -- there has been a supply of drugs to the United States, to Europe, all over the world that has essentially got greater, not lesser.  And the price of those drugs has essentially gone down, not gone up, which would suggest that supply has improved.

I think if you deal with any of the law enforcement agencies, when you meet lots of them and speak to them, they will all admit that they are touching the very, very small corner of supply.

I mean, I once made a film in Britain about drugs and the supply of drugs, and we discovered an astonishing figure, that the authorities were confiscating under 1 percent of the amount of drugs coming into Britain in the year.

HANNITY: What could you -- you know, how were you able to -- along with your fellow producer, to track down this guy, when Mexico can't get him, for the most part. I know they got him, but then they lost him. And the United States can't get him. How were you able to do this, when they can't?

MACQUEEN: We basically didn't believe the story we were being told. We thought we knew where we would find El Chapo Guzman, who was technically one of the most wanted men in the world. I think he rated just under bin Laden. And then when bin Laden was killed, up came El Chapo as the most wanted man in the world.

And we thought, We know where you are, so we're going to go and find you.  Now, if we did -- and the fact we found him exactly where we expected to find him -- would suggest to me that the American authorities and the Mexican authorities have known where he is for the whole 13 years he was on the -- quote, unquote, "on the run."

HANNITY: Wow. That's a pretty compelling story. Look forward to the documentary. Thank...

MACQUEEN: I mean, it's -- it's -- it's absurd, but it tells you something about the relationship between these drug cartels, and particularly the Sinaloa cartel, and the Mexican government and elements of the drugs agencies in the United States.

HANNITY: So you're -- you're saying that they -- that -- you're saying American law enforcement -- this is a pretty severe charge -- Mexican law enforcement have known all about where he is, where he's operating from for years, and they did nothing to stop him. Now, it was obvious from the escape that he had to have some inside help. So you're saying that they've known for years, and that the system and that American law enforcement is that corrupt?

MACQUEEN: Listen, I'm making no charges of anything. I state the simple thing. I'm a simple filmmaker. And with one other person, my colleague Guillermo Galdos, we started out knowing where he was and we ended up finding him exactly where we started out knowing where he was. I rest my case.

If we found him, I'm very sorry, it shouldn't have taken 13 years for the Mexican and U.S. authorities to find him.

HANNITY: What is your opinion of him?

MACQUEEN: I think he is an astonishing businessman. There is a really interesting history of how he has exploited the illegal drugs-smuggling operation. I think he is completely brutal and an implacable enemy. And those two things sit (ph) exactly as stated.

He clearly is a remarkable figure in the sense of how he has built up and managed to control this empire through a combination of money and fear, money and terror.

I mean, the situation -- I mean, the story of this man and the story of Mexico at the moment is a sort of tragic farce. Tens of thousands of people have been killed, yes? Tens of thousands. Some people say it's over 100,000 people have been killed in the last few years in the Mexican drug wars. This is innocent people, as well as a few guilty people.

But at the same time, you've got this farce. The man escaped from prison in 2001. He escapes again now. And he's been sitting around in the bit in between a couple of miles away from his mum.

HANNITY: It's unbelievable. But he also must have acquired over that period of time an extreme loyalty. When you look at the sophistication of the tunnel that was built -- they bring in the motorcycle so he can drive through the tunnel. It has lighting and air-conditioning in the tunnel. I mean, it's absurd to me, you know, that -- obviously, the people that work for him are willing to go to those lengths and free him and not try and take over his business while he is in custody.

MACQUEEN: Well, while he -- I mean, listen, the two really important things about El Chapo Guzman when we talk about him -- the first is that on one level, he's irrelevant to the story. The price of cocaine, heroin, methamphetamine on the streets of America did not go up when he got arrested last year. There was no change. Nor did they go down when he got out last week.

So he has an organization. There are a number of heads to it. He's the public face of it. Understand that. There are other figures who have been running it. It's a very complex family network that is at the heart of it, a network of intermarriage.

And you need to understand that that provokes a sort of tribal loyalty. He pays people very well. You get paid -- you know, the average policemen in Sinaloa or Culiacan (ph) can easily be paid by the cartel.


MACQUEEN: And listen, it's pretty clear that it was either money or fear that will have been applied to the various people in the prison industry or higher up that must have helped in that escape last week.

HANNITY: Well, I appreciate your time. Thank you, Angus, so much for being with us. We appreciate it.

MACQUEEN: It's a pleasure. I hope you all enjoy the film.

HANNITY: Joining us now with more reaction are two men that have tracked El Chapo for years, former chief of operations for the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration Michael Braun and former DEA agent, current director of the Texas Narcotic Officers Association Gil Gonzalez.

Gentlemen, let me get you first to respond to the filmmaker here. Michael, I'll ask you. I mean, he's saying that there's no way he could have survived. Here are two filmmakers that knew exactly where he was, found him exactly where they thought he would be, and he's saying it's no mystery that law enforcement had to have known, as well. What is your reaction to that?

MIKE BRAUN, FMR. DEA CHIEF OF OPERATIONS: Well, Sean, I would say this. I mean, look, there's conspiracy theorists that believe that Elvis is alive and well at Area 51. I can tell you that based on 40 years of experience in this business, Angus -- you know -- look, it would make for a wonderful Hollywood movie, but he's absolutely wrong on so many points.

I would agree with him that corruption is very much at the heart of all of this and played a critically important part to his successful escape.

HANNITY: Gil, with all that said -- and I'm a big supporter of law enforcement here -- it does strike me odd that two film producers will able to find him, you know, in a very short period of time. Meanwhile, law enforcement apparently didn't know where he was. That seems odd to me.

GIL GONZALEZ, FMR. DEA SPECIAL AGENT: Yes, that is very odd. In fact, if it is true -- which -- which -- I have not reviewed the films, but if that is true, we should -- they should be deputized, I mean, if that have that kind of influence. I suspect that he can be found by people that are not a threat to him.

HANNITY: Gil, couldn't law enforcement use that tactic themselves?  Couldn't they put cameras on their agents and say, Oh, we're here to film, we believe in drug legalization?

GONZALEZ: Yes. Yes. And I've done -- I've done -- I have been undercover many, many, many times and in many different circumstances. But there are certain rules and regulations that apply even to undercover tactics.

But I agree with Mr. Braun. It's -- I mean, General Pershing was looking for the bandit Pancho Villa, and he never found him. I mean, it is not -- it is not a simple task, but it is not an impossible task.

I really need to see the film to get a better idea of what were the circumstances involving that. But I can assure that every DEA agent on the ground, boots on the ground in Mexico, are dedicated -- are dedicated to going after these traffickers and assisting the Mexican government...

HANNITY: Listen...

GONZALEZ: ... in bringing him to justice.

HANNITY: ... I know they're doing a good job in this sense, Michael, is I go back to the drug warehouse, floor to ceiling. They're confiscating a lot of drugs. But again, this goes back to the immigration issue. You know, we have open borders. They can cross the border whenever and wherever they pretty much want, right?

BRAUN: Well, I mean, listen, part of this -- an important part of it also is the -- you know, is the border issue, but you need to understand something here, Sean, is that, you know, listen, not long after the attacks on our country in 9/11, over 60 percent of our Department of Defense detection and monitoring assets that were covering and working very closely with Mexican counterparts and counterparts throughout Latin America -- those D&M assets left the theater for other parts of the world where they were more desperately needed at the time, and they've never returned.

And then I would like to clarify one thing.

HANNITY: Real quick.

BRAUN: DEA and the FBI, federal law enforcement, are prohibited from posing as journalists while conducting undercover operations.

HANNITY: Wow. That to me seems absurd. I think police officers ought to be able to use any means necessary to get big drug dealers. But that -- wow, that -- that is something I think they ought to reconsider.

Anyway, thank you both for what you do, and thank you for being on the program. Appreciate it.

GONZALEZ: Thank you.

HANNITY: And coming up, you'll hear from a former Chicago gang member who sold El Chapo's drugs in the Windy City. So how far did the drug empire extend here into the U.S.? That is coming up next.


RIVERA: To understand the magnitude of the engineering feat involved, look how far it is to that prison. That's 1.5 kilometers, about one mile away. They tunneled all that way from this house. Now, talking about the house, the escape house -- this was built from scratch. There was nothing here before.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: El Chapo ran the cartel like a terrorist group. He had a whole range of distributors in Chicago.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Basically, we all work for the same guy.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How does he manage to build up so much power?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) I don't know. Just smart, smart little (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I don't know how he does it, but he does it well.


HANNITY: That was another clip from the documentary "Drug Lord" about El Chapo.

Joining me now is the author of "Gangstanomics," former Chicago gang member who sold drugs for the Sinaloa cartel, Herald "Noonie" Ward is with us. Harold, welcome to the program. How are you?

HAROLD "NOONIE" WARD, FMR. CHICAGO GANG LEADER: Thank you. Thank you.  I'm great. Thanks, Sean.

HANNITY: OK, now you...

WARD: Thanks for having me.

HANNITY: You sold cocaine. You were sentenced to 10 years in jail. You served five, right?

WARD: Exactly. Yes.

HANNITY: OK, when you were doing this, you didn't know you were dealing with El Chapo, right?

WARD: At all. Didn't know none of that. I just had a Mexican connect, and when I stopped selling, that's when I found out that they was affiliated with him.

HANNITY: How did you find out?

WARD: No, then I saw a couple of the guys that -- that -- well, I guess they, at the time I got out, had moved up in rank. And when I did saw them on TV, I went, Oh, wow, that's the guy I used to deal with. And that's how I found out.

HANNITY: Yes. Well, you sold heroin. You sold cocaine. You sold...


HANNITY: Am I wrong or...

WARD: I sold -- I sold -- right, I did. I sold...


HANNITY: ... heroin, cocaine, meth.

WARD: Yes.


WARD: I ain't sold no meth. I never sold meth.

HANNITY: You never sold meth?

WARD: Right.

HANNITY: Have you changed your life? I mean, are you out of the drug trade now?

WARD: I've been out of the drug trade since '89 (INAUDIBLE) '93, since I went to jail. Got out of it.

HANNITY: OK, so...

WARD: Changed my life around, born-again Christian now.

HANNITY: When you think back to those days, if you ever do, what do you think about being involved in what is contributing to somebody's ultimate demise, in many cases even death, what are your thoughts about that?

WARD: I'm glad you asked that. I always get this question all the time. What is my worst regret in selling drugs? It was selling to my people. That was my worst regret. And I think about all the different things that happened and how things was now. And I'm not trying to glorify, but things are different today than they was back then when I was selling. It's much wilder now, much crazier. No type of respect of nothing. Ain't no honor among thieves right now today at all.

HANNITY: And when you were involved in this gang, was there any violence, murder?

WARD: I mean, when I was doing what I was doing, it was murders everywhere. It wasn't just about that. It was just basically people just -- the drugs just took over, took their minds. It just did all -- everybody was trying to get their money. So it was basically like, you know, it was -- to be honest with you, when we was doing what we was doing, we had structure, believe it or not. And so it wasn't as many murders as it is right now. Now they renegades. They do what they want to do. But it was structure. So that's why the murders was less.

HANNITY: All right, Harold, I'm glad you're on the straight and narrow.  Thanks for being with us, sir, appreciate it.

Joining us now, former DEA agent Phil Jordan and former assistant director of the FBI Los Angeles field office Richard Garcia is with us. Richard, from what I understand, you're saying El Chapo and his drug distribution has reached over 1,000 American cities, is that true?

RICHARD GARCIA, FORMER ASSISTANT DIRECTOR OF FBI LOS ANGELES FIELD OFFICE:  That's what they're saying. And the reach is very common because he's all over the world besides the United States. He's in Australia, he's Europe, and he's in Asia. He's just not concentrated on the United States, even though the United States has the appetite for drug use.

HANNITY: Knowing what you know, seeing what you see, and I've been down to the border about 12 times myself and I've seen a lot, does it amaze you that we still don't have control of this border? Because it's stunning to me, all of these drugs coming in. This is targeted towards our kids, and we don't stop it. Are you as surprised as I am?

GARCIA: No, I'm not surprised. It's a big border. It's 2,000 miles of the southern border. And it's not just the Mexican border. The drugs come in from Canada as well.

HANNITY: How about we control all the borders, though? Don't you think it's imperative we do it?

GARCIA: Well, how are you going to control all the borders? There's not enough man power. Even if you build a fence, that's not going to stop anything. El Chapo is using tunnels. They're using catapults to haul and throw drugs over the fences in the places around Arizona, and that doesn't work. That's just a waste of money.

HANNITY: Phil Jordan, do you agree with that, because I would like to think we would really wage a significant war to stop all this?

PHIL JORDAN, FORMER DEA AGENT: Well, what Richard is saying is pretty much on target. The fact that if you built a fence, Sean, they can go over it and they can go under it. That's not going to stop it, OK. What's going to stop it is reducing the demand in the United States.

HANNITY: That's a good point.

JORDAN: That will stop it to a certain degree. But like Richard also stated eloquently, Chapo controls the world market on the drug distribution. So it's not just the United States where he's killing our children and increasing the violence. For example, that's happening in Chicago.

HANNITY: OK. Let me go back to you, Richard. El Chapo, here you have two TV producers, they can find him. The Mexican government can't find him or keep him in jail. And the Americans can't get this guy. But two producers find him literally in days. How is that possible?

GARCIA: Well, it all depends on who's the person. I think they said earlier, if they want to be found and if their eagle gets in the way that they want to be able to pounce their chest and say what we're doing and in your face to the United States, in your face to Mexico, yes, they'll accept this type of thing.

And if you try to do an undercover operation which is prohibited, which Mike was saying earlier, you can't have law enforcement do that because the check and balances to vet the person that's say who they are they're not stupid. They have very sophisticated ways to do background checks and look at who in fact they're talking to. And you have to be very sophisticated on your backstopping to insure you're not giving up the fact that you're an undercover agent. It's not that simple. And also the United States cannot just go into Mexico unless the Mexican authorities allow us to do so.

HANNITY: And they're not particularly helpful, are they?

GARCIA: No, they're not. And the change of administration that they had from the last time, when Calderon left the office, the various authorities that the DEA had, FBI even, in Mexico was reduced significantly with the new current president. They wanted to do it themselves.

HANNITY: We know that that's not going to work. All right, guys, I disagree on the immigration part, but I do thank you for the hard work that you put in every day. Thank you for doing that.

GARCIA: Thank you.

HANNITY: Coming up what we know about El Chapo's family. And will authorities ever find him? That's coming up next, straight ahead.


GERALDO RIVERA, FOX NEWS SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: And 2,000 tons of dirt was taken under the tunnel in that building, stored in this area right here, and then removed from the neighborhood. How did that happen with nobody noticing?





HANNITY: That was a clip from the documentary "Drug Lord, The Legend of Shorty." Joining me now with analyst, FOX News Latino contributor Jan- Albert Hootsen is with us, "Daily Mail" reporter Alasdair Baverstock, and the former chief of international operations at the DEA Mike Vigil is with us. Guys, welcome, good to see you all. Let's talk Yan, for a second about what we know about his family, because it's apparently very tightly knit. But he also married an American wife, wanted his children to have American citizenship. Isn't that true?

JAN-ALBERT HOOTSEN, FOX NEWS LATINO CONTRIBUTOR: That's correct. His wife, Emma Coronel is actually a family member of one of his closer associates who died several years ago. She had twin daughters, Chapo's twin daughters in Los Angeles several years ago. So yes, they're a very tight knit community and they have links across the border.

HANNITY: What is your reaction to -- Alasdair, are we going to find this guy? Do you think he's built an infrastructure even here in the United States where he's paying so many people off?

ALASDAIR BAVERSTOCK, DAILY MAIL REPORTER: I think in terms of finding him, the trail went cold at the end of the tunnel a mile south of the maximum security penitentiary he escaped from. So for the moment the Mexican authorities have named his wife as the highest priority surveillance targets. But they haven't indicated whether they have any idea where she is.

As Yan mentioned here, she gave birth in 2011 to two twin daughters. And since that time, she's kept an exceptionally low profile. But it's important to remember that she was the person who was found with him in February of last year with El Chapo when he was arrested. So the authorities will be hoping to keep a close eye on her and hope she leads them to him.

HANNITY: Mike, what is your reaction as you look at the families and the connections and the financial contributions that are apparently made to everybody that comes into this guy's life?

MIKE VIGIL, FORMER DEA OPERATIONS CHIEF: The fact of the matter is the Sinaloa cartel has unlimited resources. Chapo Guzman utilizing a lot of his sons to engage in the drug trade. One of them was arrested in Mexico on money laundering charges in 2005, was released three years later because they felt that there was no evidence. So he was released. He has now been indicted in the southern district of California on drug trafficking charges. Second oldest son has been indicted in the state of Indiana. And then his young son is engaged in the drug trade as well. And I think that Chapo Guzman wants to have his sons participate so that if something happens to him the Guzman legacy will continue to dominate the Sinaloa cartel.

HANNITY: A legacy of, let's see, dealing heroin, cocaine, methamphetamine, marijuana, a legacy that includes murder?

VIGIL: Wholesale violence and mayhem.

HANNITY: All right, guys, good to see you, and we appreciate your time.  Now, when we come back, will the notorious drug kingpin known as El Chapo ever be captured again? We'll go back to Mexico with Geraldo Rivera. He's standing by on the ground. We'll get his final thoughts and much more, straight ahead.


RIVERA: I'm having flash backs to Tora Bora, Afghanistan, December 2001, the caves and tunnel complex that hid Usama bin Laden. I must say that bin Laden had nothing on El Chapo. He dug a much better tunnel, much more impressive.



HANNITY: Welcome back to "Hannity." El Chapo's daring escape is making many question if authorities will ever be able to catch him again. Back with us on the ground tonight in Mexico, FOX News senior correspondent Geraldo Rivera.

I really can't say that I'm hopeful, Geraldo, considering he was caught once, he escaped, caught twice, he escaped. An elaborate tunnel, obvious collusion of some kind. It seems like they're going to have a very difficult time keeping him down. That's my take. What are you hearing on the ground?

RIVERA: That is the, I think, you just uttered the understatement of the year -- difficult, if not impossible. We know that he emerged from that house behind me. That's the last, I think we'll see of El Chapo in our lifetime.

Despite Mexico pulling out all of the stops, as we saw yesterday and today personally, there are thousands of uniformed Mexican federal police, state police, various agencies represented. There is a plethora of uniformed Mexican servicemen searching for El Chapo. But why they are searching in this particular area, I don't know. But they won't find him I don't believe, Sean.

HANNITY: You know something, Geraldo, you think of the level of loyalty or fear involved in this that they're going to dig a one mile tunnel as sophisticated as you showed us earlier in the program today, and you think that maybe there is competition, they want to knock him out, somebody wants to be the leader and take over for him and become a billionaire as well.  But no. They all went to work to make sure that their leader got out of prison, again. What does it say about the network that he's built up?

RIVERA: I believe, Sean, El Chapo is back in Sinaloa state, his home state, his beautiful mountainous pacific state where he is the absolute ruler. I believe he is back in those caves where everybody is on his payroll.

Who else was on his payroll is the question. When you have $1 billion, according to Forbes magazine to spend, and spend hundreds of millions, let's say, in terms of what is necessary for that physical plan, this is a man now insulated and isolated himself. I don't think we will hear from El Chapo. I believe that he will continue to taunt people like Donald Trump, other people maybe in the media. Maybe he's taunt his drug rivals. But they can't, from these other states, go into Sinaloa where El Chapo is the absolute ruler.

I believe that he'll be this with his four wives and his 10 children. He'll send out his son and others to continue his business. I think that this man will continue supplying drugs to the United States and elsewhere for some time to come.

HANNITY: You know, Geraldo, he's on "Forbes" most powerful people list, Chicago's public enemy number one. It is believed that as much as 50 percent of the cocaine, the heroin, the methamphetamine, the marijuana coming into America is coming from his cartel. And it's even been estimated about $3 billion a year in business that they're doing. That is an astronomical sum of money, and I guess that is being used for protect him.

RIVERA: You know, it's very difficult to keep people from becoming corrupt, Sean. When the average police officer or soldier is getting paid a couple hundred dollars a month, and the guy offers them a bribe of $500,000, let's say. And not only do I offer you the bribe of $500,000 or $100,000, or $25,000, whatever it is, if you don't take it, I'm going to kill your wife. I'm going to cut the ears off your child. It's very difficult to have an honest law enforcement, even a paramilitary organization when you have that kind of temptation as weighed against the neediness and relative impoverished condition of the people you expect to do this most difficult job for you.

HANNITY: All right, Geraldo, great work, as always. Thanks so much for being with us.

And coming up, more on the hunt for El Chapo coming up right after the break. Please stay with us.


HANNITY: We'll continue to follow the story of El Chapo, but that is all the time we have this evening. As always, thank you for being with us, and we hope you have a great night.

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