'Hannity' Debate Over Arizona Border Security Gets Heated

This is a rush transcript from "Hannity," April 28, 2010. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

SEAN HANNITY, HOST: Whether it's an opportunity to score some cheap political points the Obama administration is never far behind. And it appears the brewing controversy over Arizona's new immigration law is about to become a prime target of President Obama.

And like other opponents of the bill the president is doing his part to spread outrageous claims about the legislation.

Now take a look at the irresponsible comments he made at a town hall in Iowa.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: You can try to make it really tough on people who look like they, quote-unquote, "might be illegal immigrants."

One of the things that the law says is local officials are allowed to ask somebody who they have a suspicion might be an illegal immigrant for their papers. Now suddenly if you don't have your papers and you took your kid out to get ice cream, you're going to be harassed.

That's something that could potentially happen. I — that's not the right way to go.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

HANNITY: Alright, now, clearly the president has not read the bill because the only way that person at the ice cream shop could be asked for their papers if they were arrested while robbing the ice cream shop.

Now the law explicitly states authorities must have, quote, "legal contact before proof of citizenship is requested." But of course the anointed one — well, he didn't bother telling the audience about that.

Now maybe all of this stems from the fact that the administration has no answers on securing our borders. Now in fact they can't even answer simple questions about the subject.

Wait until you see this. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM, R-S.C.: Would you say — would you certify that the Arizona border is secure?

JANET NAPOLITANO, SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: If I were to — if I were asked that question now in this position — first of all it's an unfair question and that's why the border governor —

GRAHAM: If that is an unfair question —

NAPOLITANO: Well, let me finish my answer —

GRAHAM: — then it would be new to the people of the United States and Arizona. If it's unfair to ask a simple question, is the border secure, then we're never going to have the confidence to get it secure because it is a fair question.

And I'll give you my answer. I don't think it is.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

HANNITY: Now it's pretty amazing the former governor of Arizona is not able to answer that question truthfully. And here with the reaction on the very latest on the Arizona immigration battle is the author of The New York Times bestseller, "Culture of Corruption," Michelle Malkin and immigration attorney Francisco Hernandez.

Welcome, both of you.

Francisco, let's go —

FRANCISCO HERNANDEZ, IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY: Hi. Thank you.

HANNITY: — right to this question. I think it's a pretty simple, straightforward question. Would you certify that the Arizona border is secure? Do you think that's an unfair question?

HERNANDEZ: Not being a security expert, but I would say it is secure from terrorists which is what we're trying to talk about. If we're talking about immigration, we put millions and million of — of dollars on the wall and then billions on the —

HANNITY: You're not answering the question.

HERNANDEZ: On what we call a virtual fence.

(CROSSTALK)

HANNITY: No, no, that's not —

HERNANDEZ: I'm about to answer it. But now we are admitting that it didn't work. So secure from infiltration, from undocumented immigration, no, it's probably not secure. No, I would say that.

HANNITY: Alright — I'm talking immigration. Does that — so if it's not secure, if people could enter this country at any time they wish that means drug dealers can —

HERNANDEZ: No.

HANNITY: Wait a minute. If people can enter illegally that means drug dealers can enter the country? That means potentially people that want to bring harm to the American people and criminals? That means they can enter the country? Is that true?

HERNANDEZ: But the drug dealers don't carry the drugs across the desert. They have tunnels and airplanes and cars that they do it. Those aren't the ones that we were addressing here.

HANNITY: Wait a minute. Whoa, whoa.

HERNANDEZ: We're either talking about drug trafficking.

HANNITY: I was —

HERNANDEZ: Or undocumented immigration.

HANNITY: You're wrong.

HERNANDEZ: Two separate subjects.

HANNITY: Sir. Francisco, I was there where Border Patrol agents actually housed the drugs that they confiscated over the years.

Now let me go to Michelle Malkin.

HERNANDEZ: And we — unfortunately, we have some Border Patrol agents that are conspiring with the drug traffickers.

HANNITY: You know, I think this is a simple question, Michelle. Are our borders secure? I don't think that's an unfair question. The answer is no.

HERNANDEZ: It's a fair question.

HANNITY: The answer is no. It's not an unfair question, Michelle.

MICHELLE MALKIN, "THE CULTURE OF CORRUPTION" AUTHOR: No, the answer is actually hell, no. Pardon my French. And I think with all due respect that Francisco is delusional if he thinks that the border is secure from terrorists as he just said.

We are no more secure from terrorists on the southern or northern borders than we were in September 11th, 2001. And the point is that we are unable to sift through who is here merely to do harm or merely to do the work, so-called that other Americans won't do, which in itself is a big myth.

And I think the fact is, as we've seen this entire debate and debacle unfold with regard to the Arizona immigration enforcement law, that there are two kinds of public figures in American life right now.

There are people who pay lip service to border security and immigration enforcement. And there are people who actually step up and do the brave thing, despite all of the vilification. And that is the Arizona state legislature and the GOP Governor Jan Brewer. And I thank them for that.

You know I have no love for either Janet Napolitano or Lindsey Graham, frankly. And I'm very sick not only at the demagoguery on the left and by the — the country of Mexico and the government there, but also by a lot of Johnny-come-latelies, including John McCain and Lindsey Graham who are finally understanding the gravity of the situation down there. And now paying lip service —

HANNITY: Alright. Let me —

MALKIN: — to save their own jobs.

HERNANDEZ: And I agree, throw all the bums out. The point is, we're letting the tail wag the dog. We're letting this Arizona screaming for government action, for federal government action, for their failure under the Republican administration, and the Democratic administration.

They have failed to do it.

HANNITY: Alright.

HERNANDEZ: This is an economic issue. There are jobs that are people trying to get it.

MALKIN: Francisco, the only screaming — Francisco, the only screaming I see is from those open border activists who are smearing things on the state capital, who were accusing the good people of Arizona of being akin to Hitler, and fascists and a police state.

And as I pointed out in my newspaper column today, I think there's a rank hypocrisy on the part of Mexican officials and their sympathizers accusing Americans of being part of a police state when the immigration policies in Mexico are far more draconian when they treat illegal aliens than they are in Arizona or anywhere else in America.

HERNANDEZ: You bet you. You bet you. And thank goodness we live in America. Thank goodness we live in the United States.

HANNITY: Let me —

HERNANDEZ: But you know what?

MALKIN: I'm glad to hear that.

HANNITY: Let me advance this. Let me advance the debate here.

MALKIN: And I hope that you condemn that demagoguery as much as I do, Francisco.

HANNITY: Alright. Let me —

HERNANDEZ: Oh, they're hypocrites, too. Politicians down there are hypocrites, too.

HANNITY: Francisco, hang on a sec — Francisco, hang on a second. Let me advance the debate. Because the president used this example of somebody that would go into an ice cream shop and be harassed.

Now if you actually read the bill, it's impossible because — and clearly the president hasn't because the bill very specifically states, as I pointed out here, that there must be prior legal contact.

Meaning there had to be some other law that were broken before one's immigration status could be questioned by the police department.

HERNANDEZ: And —

HANNITY: So — hang on.

HERNANDEZ: And I'll tell you what my —

HANNITY: So the president —

HERNANDEZ: What my immigration —

HANNITY: Hang on a second.

HERNANDEZ: I'm sorry.

HANNITY: So the president — what he said to the American people in Iowa in this town hall was inaccurate and it was untrue.

HERNANDEZ: It was.

HANNITY: You agree with that?

HERNANDEZ: It was. I agree. But what he should have said is what my Immigration and Customs Enforcement agent friends call it when local authorities try to enforce federal immigration laws, is they end up doing what's called MOAD address. M-O-A-D. Mexicans out after dark.

Really what's happening is you just get a pretense offense — he was speeding because we wanted to just pull him over to find out if they're here legally or illegally.

HANNITY: Alright. You want to talk abuse of the law or abuse of law enforcement. That is a whole separate issue which we can talk about another time.

HERNANDEZ: Well, that's —

HANNITY: Hang on. Hang on. Here's my question.

HERNANDEZ: That's happens when you put —

HANNITY: We have millions of people —

HERNANDEZ: When put complicated issues in the hands of untrained folks.

HANNITY: Francisco, we have millions of people that have not respected American law, American sovereignty. It is wreaking havoc economically on states, on our health care system, on hospitals that have to close, on our educational system, on our criminal justice system.

HERNANDEZ: I would disagree with that.

HANNITY: Hang on — well, you can't disagree with the facts. So the question is, if people do not respect our laws or sovereignty, do you have a problem arresting them?

HERNANDEZ: Well, look, if somebody is willing to walk across the desert for 10 days so they can go clean our tables and change our linens, so they can feed their family in Mexico, you can't blame a human being for that. Those are just hardworking people —

HANNITY: Do you have —

HERNANDEZ: — they're no more criminals than you and I.

HANNITY: I didn't ask you that. Do you have a problem arresting them?

HERNANDEZ: Yes. Yes, I do. Absolutely.

HANNITY: Alright, so —

HERNANDEZ: They are otherwise hardworking taxpaying people. Absolutely.

HANNITY: Alright. So you want — wait a minute. Michelle, this is interesting. Because he wants to live in a society — any civil society has got to have a bedrock foundation of the rule of law and what Francisco is saying is that laws that were passed by Congress and signed by presidents, we should ignore them.

HERNANDEZ: No, that's not the point.

MALKIN: Yes, you know, I have —

HERNANDEZ: The point is —

HANNITY: No, Francisco, that was for Michelle.

HERNANDEZ: Please. Yes.

MALKIN: Thank you. You know I admire this about Francisco. He has a wonderful way of saying the most outrageous disagreeable things in a very agreeable way. And basically what he has articulated is the same philosophy of reconquista and open borders that many Mexican officials —

HERNANDEZ: No.

MALKIN: — have long advocated for, from Zedillo to Fox to Calderon. They all believe that the territory of Mexico extends beyond its borders and while they are very vehemently —

HERNANDEZ: No, they don't.

MALKIN: — protective of their own southern border, they don't believe in ours.

HERNANDEZ: No, they don't. You know, the American Indians —

MALKIN: That's the bottom line.

HERNANDEZ: — are pretty miffed about our illegal immigration coming from the east European countries. So —

HANNITY: Why — why would you —

HERNANDEZ: — so this issue goes way back.

HANNITY: My last question to you, Francisco. Why would you not want the laws of the United States of America enforced? Why?

HERNANDEZ: Well, of course you want them enforced. But the point is, it's a jobs matter.

MALKIN: No, you don't!

HERNANDEZ: The jobs are here in America —

MALKIN: You just said you don't want the law enforced against the poor person coming here to work.

HERNANDEZ: Now don't interrupt me.

MALKIN: You just said that. Well, fair play then, huh?

HERNANDEZ: Well, can I finish what I am saying?

MALKIN: You're contradicting yourself, Francisco.

HERNANDEZ: Well, let me finish my sentence.

MALKIN: You just said you don't want the law enforced against somebody who is just coming here to work. You said it.

HERNANDEZ: If they are coming here to work and we have the jobs and American citizens are not filling them, God bless them.

MALKIN: That's not —

HERNANDEZ: They're trying to feed their families. Go for it.

MALKIN: That clause does not — that is not part of our immigration law. It's not in our Constitution.

HERNANDEZ: It absolutely is not and it should be.

MALKIN: And it's certainly how Mexico treats its own illegal aliens.

HERNANDEZ: And you know what? It's reflecting our border, too.

HANNITY: Guys, we got to run.

MALKIN: Well, until then people should follow the law.

HANNITY: We got to run. Thank you both for being —

HERNANDEZ: I understand. And all we need —

HANNITY: Thank you both for being with us. We're just out of time there.

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