Greta Van Susteren previews her town hall with John Kasich
Fox News hosts powerful prime-time lineup
This is a rush transcript from "The Five," March 9, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Eric Bolling along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Dana Perino, and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."
After a big political night yesterday, we have a huge night for you right here on Fox News Channel, it's a powerful primetime lineup with a full hour dedicated to each of the four republican candidates. It all starts in just two hours from now. At 7:00 p.m. John Kasich goes "On the Record" as he makes his case to voters during a town hall with Greta Van Susteren. At 8:00, the spin stops at the "O'Reilly Factor." At 9:00, Ted Cruz joins "The Kelly File" to answer questions from voters in North Carolina. At 10:00 p.m. eastern GOP front-runner Donald Trump fresh off three victories yesterday joins Sean Hannity. And then at 11:00, Marco Rubio joins Megyn Kelly from his home state of Florida for a special second hour of "The Kelly File." Joining us now from Chicago is Greta Van Susteren with the preview of her "On the Record" town hall with John Kasich. Greta, great, great evening on Fox News Channel tonight, you're kicking it off. What do you want to know from John Kasich first?
GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, "ON THE RECORD" HOST: You know what I want to do and I'm hoping for Governor Kasich came is, sort of reintroduce him to the voters, because we really are down to the line. Next Tuesday is a very important time for him. He had a big night in Michigan. He came in third but only by a hair. I would say that he tied for second place. And he seems to be the one person who might have a chance. If Donald Trump's ever gonna be voted on a first place, it may be that it is Governor Kasich. And the American people don't know a whole lot about him because he hasn't got a whole lot of interviews, not a lot of publicity. So I'm hoping that he's reorient the voters. They may be interested in him, maybe not. I'm not accountable who to vote for. But you know we are all talking about what if Donald Trump doesn't get 1,237 delegates? It is going to be a brokered convention and that's where we may hear a lot more about Governor Kasich. And remember, Cleveland with the RNC convention is, that is his home state. So very exciting here, so I hope to learn a lot. But I want to ask a little bit about the news of the day too, Eric.
BOLLING: All right, very, very good. Hold on, this is Dana.
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: You cover a lot of this Greta, but I wanted to ask a couple of things. So last night, John Kasich in Michigan won late deciders, maybe by about 32 percent. People who decided in the last few days went for Kasich. He also apparently has a very good absentee ballot operation. So in Ohio, you have a lot of snow birds, people who leave the state during the winter. And the Ohio GOP operations have been very good at tracking them down and getting those absentee ballots in. And I also think that he does very well in this town hall formats, but in terms of connecting with voters, but we haven't seen him on television. So how will you break it up tonight in terms of you, asking him questions and then people in the audience given the chance to ask him?
SUSTEREN: Well, first of all Dana, let me tell you a little bit about the audience. There will be a few Kasich supporters but we have gone out and tried to find all the undecided, even at this late date. You talk about the absentee, but a lot of this people, you know, haven't voted. So they are still trying to make up their minds. And what I'm hoping to do tonight is to sort to go back to many the core issues. I mean, the problem is we've gotten to the point in this election where frankly, it is sort of hard to tell a lot of the candidates apart on some issues. So this will be his chance to try to distinguish himself and to try to sell himself to voters. I mean, the one thing we all know about immigration, Donald Trump wants to build the wall. The other three, we know they want to close the border, but it sometimes gets a little bit foggy, what the difference is it. So this is sort of his chance to sort of sell himself on these particular issues, because he's got to win next Tuesday, and he's got to win big next Tuesday. And I understand there is going to be a poll coming out later this evening on the Fox News Channel that may give us a lot of insight as to what's going on in Ohio. If he doesn't bring it home in Ohio, you know, he might as well just to accept the fact that he is just going to be a host in Cleveland and not a contender.
BOLLING: And Greta, we have the birthday girl who has a question for you, Kimberly.
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Hi, Greta. So, you know, I was in Detroit, I was on your show.
SUSTEREN: You know Kimberly, Kimberly first, happy birthday.
GUILFOYLE: Thank you.
SUSTEREN: Happy birthday, and tough to be 29, 30 won't be so bad next year, I assure you.
GUILFOYLE: Keep changing that license ideas. So yeah, thank you very much. I appreciate that. So I was on your show when I was in Detroit and there for the debate. And I have to tell you, I came away from that debate thinking, wow, what a great debate that Kasich had. He was, you know, very well-prepared, very informative, and he's the type of do you want to hear more from. And it seems to me, I list all the reactions that I got from people there that were in the debate. They thought like, wow, this is somebody I want to give a second look to. What he is going to do to try to get perhaps, peel away those undecided, so that they don't gravitate towards Trump?
SUSTEREN: I think what he's got to do is he's got to convince them why they should vote for him. I mean, he's not just a candidate, but why him instead of Trump? Can he deliver? You know, all these politicians give so many promises, year after year after year. And what he's got able to do is sell to the American people, sell to the voter that he is that, you know, that he will actually deliver on this. Now look, he's got two problems and that he's got Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders on the far left throwing Hail Mary passes to very angry electorate out there who are so desperate and not wanting sort of politics as usual. So he's got a tough time telling the American people to go with someone who has been steep in politics all these years. But what he needs to do is he needs to emphasize his experience. He was in the House for 18 years. And why that matters. And what he has achieved. Does he actually achieve that which he promises? I think that's important because we hear lots of talk. But who has actually done something? Have you done that for the American voters? And tonight he's got -- he's going to have a whole hour. This is his -- I see this is his big chance. He's got a whole hour to tell the American people whether or not they should do. The undecided ones or even those who've decided to switch over to Kasich.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah, good point.
BOLLING: All right, Greg, Greg has done something. Greg, what's your question for her?
GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: As this is a question from a viewer, Greta. It was sent to me today. It said, "My problem with Kasich is that he waited so long to get involved. He was like a hyena watching the lions eating the elephant, and now he's telling everybody to act like an adult." Is there some truth to that that he's kind of was always on the side lines? And now when he is there, he acts like he is above it all.
GUILFOYLE: Oh my, gosh.
SUSTEREN: You know, Greg, I'm so surprised that it's like sort of not the kind question I was expecting. I thought that, I thought that you got to tease me about something.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: Like I said, it was from a viewer which means it was intelligent.
SUSTEREN: Oh yeah, that's right. I forgot that's a viewer question, not one of your questions. You know, look, he's playing the elimination game. And you know Senator Marco Rubio is a big problem. If he doesn't win Florida, he's out. And he may decide to get out before Florida since he probably doesn't want to lose his home state. And these -- and the poll show that he is not doing particularly well there. Then you've got Senator Ted Cruz and you've got Donald Trump sort of duking (ph) it out. And I suspect, I don't know for sure, but what Governor Kasich is doing, sort of he's waiting and sort of letting them eat each other in the sense, and letting them eliminate each other. And if he is left standing, then he is left standing with Donald Trump, and he's the only other candidate. You know, the so- called GOP mainstream that, who seems to be attacking Donald Trump. They may be all throwing their force behind John Kasich. So, you know, being the last one standing besides Donald Trump, may be the effective way to, if you want to achieve this nomination.
BOLLING: Greta, we have one more question.
(LAUGHTER)
BOLLING: Juan?
JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: So Greta, it looks to me like John Kasich is betting everything on Ohio. But I saw today that even if he wins Ohio, he would have to win 60 percent of the remaining delegates in order to win the nomination. So my thought is he's really counting on a brokered convention. That's his strategy. What do you think?
SUSTEREN: Juan, I think that has to be it. I mean, I don't think he's going to walk away with 1,237 delegates at the end of this voting season. He's got to hope that he can deprive Donald Trump of reaching that mark. I don't think we Senator Ted Cruz, Senator Marco Rubio get it. So he has to hope to deprive of them and throw it in to a brokered convention this summer in Cleveland. I think that's the only route for him. I don't think he's -- I don't -- I'll be surprised if he could reach that mark himself. So I think you're absolutely right. This has got to be a brokered convention and he has to be a little bit of a spoiler for Donald Trump. And he's got to -- he's actually, I think probably got a hope that supposedly Senator Marco Rubio, who has said he is not. But let's say that Senator Marco Rubio get out before next week for Florida, and let's suppose that he gets a lot of those Rubio votes himself. It puts him in a much stronger position going to that convention. But I should note that Senator Rubio's campaign says he is staying in all the way.
BOLLING: All right Greta, thank you so much. Have a great time tonight. Greta, we will be watching you.
SUSTEREN: Thank you.
BOLLING: Following Greta's town hall with Kasich. Megyn Kelly hosts her first two special events tonight with Ted Cruz at 9:00 p.m., and later Marco Rubio at 11:00 p.m. eastern. Cruz weighs in on the contested convention controversy in this preview clip from Megyn show tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TED CRUZ, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: A contested convention is a different thing where you go if no one gets 1237 and you've got two front-runners. Look, Reagan and Ford battled it out at the contested convention, that's what conventions are for. If you're fighting between the candidates who have earned the votes of the people and it is the delegates at the convention that have been elected to do that, that's the way the system works. And that is perfectly appropriate. But I'll tell you, I don't believe we're going to need that either.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: So that's what you were alluding to. You said brokered which would mean anyone could come in and be the nominee. The contested meaning the current available nominee -- the current available candidates would be the likely nominee.
WILLIAMS: Right. And you just heard reference there to what happened between Ford and Reagan, we go way back, and you know, that was hot. And that was, though is interesting, because you look at it historically. That's where Reagan loses in the contested stuff. But Reagan then becomes the driving force in republican politics, sets him up for the next time. I don't think Donald Trump wants to wait for the next time. I think he's 69, but -- what you have here is a situation where you at, the party is in crisis and the question is, does the crisis go with the convention?
BOLLING: Yeah, and in that year, the Reagan/Ford contested convention you're talking about. They were both candidates, straight through.
WILLIAMS: Absolutely.
BOLLING: And then Ford and then winning on that one, your thoughts on -- at conventions?
PERINO: Well, I've wanted to say one thing about Kasich, which is just about the importance of Ohio for the Republican Party. I remember talking to Secretary Mike Leavitt when he was head of HHS under the George W. Bush administration, we were just reminiscing and then he was talk -- I was asking about his first campaign job, and it was for Ronald Reagan. And he was looking for this assignment. He was looking forward to traveling all over the country. And every time he went back to get an assignment, they would say go to Ohio. He's like, and he finally asked, it is like, can I go somewhere else? And they said, "No, because nothing else matters." So I think what Kasich is doing, one, for his path, whatever it might be, important for him. I also think just reminding republicans about the importance of Ohio, that it is a must-win. John Kerry knew that in 2004. He always laments with 60,000 votes in Ohio. He -- for then he would be president. That obviously didn't happen. But Ohio is just sort of that lynchpin for republicans.
BOLLING: KG, Marco Rubio tonight, I'm going to be listening to his attitude, his mentality with less than a week to go before that big important Florida primary on Tuesday.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah, and a lot of people are very curious about it. But from what I've heard him, you know, the speeches he's given, and want not, he really seems like he does not want to get out. He wants to stay in. He very much believed in his candidacy and his ability to be president. And that's why he is telling everybody that supporting him, hey, we can do this together. Don't abandon me now. Let's take Florida. I mean, if he does that, you know, he's got legs. And if not, then he's in trouble.
WILLIAMS: Let me just go add, add quickly. Isn't it interesting that Donald Trump is buying ads to attack him? I think the ads are all corrupts Rubio in Florida.
BOLLING: Greg, we go on your opinion, but I honestly think the best thing for Donald Trump would be Kasich and Rubio staying in at this point. You see the way it is, the way it is breaking down. They're beating each other up for votes. Cruz is beating up Rubio. Rubio is beating up Cruz. And as I'll lay it out a little bit in the next block, but the numbers --it actually helps Donald Trump in a whacky way.
GUTFELD: Well, you've answer general question, Eric. Can I talk about the town hall?
BOLLING: Yeah.
(LAUGHTER)
GUILFOYLE: Answer your own question.
GUTFELD: Exactly. So Sean will be interviewing Donald Trump. And as you know, Sean and I are very close. So I often give him some questions. So I have some questions for Sean Hannity that he could actually ask Donald Trump, that I don't believe that have been asked yet. How is China killing us? I'm still waiting for the evidence on how China is killing us when the American's average income per person is nine times there. I would like to know. I also want to know, how much an iPhone will cost when you start bringing those jobs back. And how will that cost of that iPhone affect the crime rate once those phones become scarce and incredibly expensive. Other questions? How can you go after Ford about moving their jobs overseas when dozens of your products are made overseas? I think these are good questions that you can ask Donald Trump that people haven't asked.
BOLLING: All right, we'll leave it right there. But it's going to be a great night on Fox. Coming up on "The Five," big wins for the outsiders during last night's primaries, Donald Trump, securing wins in three states, and Bernie Sanders pulling off a major upset. We break down the results as the race for 2016 intensifies.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUILFOYLE: Well, it was a big night for the Trump train last night rolling to victory in three out of four states, Michigan, Mississippi and Hawaii. This brings the GOP delegate count to 458 for Trump, 359 for Cruz, 151 for Rubio, and 54 for Kasich. Now after scoring his win last night, Trump called for unity in the Republican Party.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am a unifier. I unify. I mean, you look at all of the things I build all over the world. I'm a unifier. I get along with people. I have great relations. I think it is time to unify. We have something special going on in the Republican Party. And unfortunately, the people of the party, they call them the elite, so they call them whatever they call him. But those are the people that don't respect it yet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: Meanwhile, Ted Cruz, he won the Idaho primary vowed to take down the republican front-runner.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CRUZ: This race, I believe, will end up one-on-one between me and Donald Trump. And head to head with Donald Trump. We win. You don't want to hand the general election on a silver platter to Hillary Clinton and the democrats. Then I ask you to join us. If you were a Jeb supporter, if you are other a Marco supporter now, if you're a Kasich supporter, we welcome you to our team.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: So he's trying to aggregate them all Dana, to bring them into the fold in the hopes to derail the train.
PERINO: Yup. So this is what every -- if there is a big nomination process where you have a lot of contestants, then there's gonna --they're going to fight amongst each other and then they will try to unify them. The Republican Party, perhaps it is been held together by duct tape and chicken wire for the last several years, like under the big tent. And now someone came in and grabbed all the tent poles and had to rush out with it and say, "OK, now everybody get together." I mean, this is not going to happen overnight. It sounded to me like Donald Trump understands it. He's got a ways to go. And certainly I would say that a lot of his followers do. However, you see the polls today that there is a majority of republicans who say this is not my guy. This is not my candidate, and they're making other choices. Now, it might turn out that he is the nominee and then, that's a whole other ball of wax to have to deal with. But for the next seven days, well six days until Super Tuesday, next week, he might try to have that message. We'll see what happens tomorrow night in the debate. The same thing happened last week where on the night of the voting, the first Super Tuesday, March 1st. He had the first press conference with the press there and the cheering crowd, and he had this conciliatory tone. And two days later, they're in a debate where you can't necessary have that tone if you're being attacked. I think the same thing could happen tomorrow night. There is a debate before this election on a Tuesday.
GUILFOYLE: All right Greg, what do you think?
GUTFELD: Yeah. I think that, you know, if you crash the party and you break the furniture, and you stain the rugs, you got to spring for the damages. I do think he means what he said.
GUILFOYLE: Unless you're a rock band.
GUTFELD: Yeah, that's true. You throw TV in the swimming pool. But I think he believes and it's possible (inaudible), but he has to figure out how he's going to do that. When you created a rift, when your entire campaign has been a disruption that is actually succeeded in work, you have to then sit back and go, OK. Of all the people that I've been insulted or offended, how do I get those people to see me as a good person? Because somebody like me, who knows him, and I think I kind of know him pretty well. I always thought of him as a good person. I've always enjoyed his company. But there are things that he did that really pissed me off. So I'm saying as a friend, he bothered me. How does he win me back?
GUILFOYLE: I think that --
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: Friends, wow.
GUTFELD: Yeah.
GUILFOYLE: I think I know the answer to that.
GUTFELD: True.
BOLLING: Listen --
GUILFOYLE: How he wins Iraq.
GUTFELD: You know, but you see that's different. He could be a friend of mine, but I can still be critical of him. That's very important and different from a lot of people.
GUILFOYLE: Well, you've mentioned in particular of something that offended you.
GUTFELD: Yes.
GUILFOYLE: . with the statement of John McCain.
GUTFELD: Yes, it sticks with him.
GUILFOYLE: OK. All right, so Eric, so what do you think here? He started this tone more conciliatory. Please bring your prop.
BOLLING: Yeah, (inaudible) again. Look, hate me, hate the whiteboard, but the numbers don't lie.
GUTFELD: You do hate the whiteboard.
BOLLING: The numbers don't lie.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: Why does it have to be white? Juan?
BOLLING: This whiteboard is not predicting an Ohio win, yet. All right, so here's the deal. The way it breaks down. You have to throw out everything, all the numbers, all the delegate counts. Throw them don't out, they don't matter anymore. Other than were we, the starting point is. Going forward, the race has to be look in the different light. These are wins. These are state and locality where state and territory wins. Trump has 15, Cruz has 7. The two of them have 92 percent of the wins, now the reason why that matters Rubio and Kasich only have two to combine. The reason why that matters is it is winner take all in 19 of the next 25 contests, and that add the count for 1,055 of the delegates. So you can be really close or you can outscore Trump. Technically, outscore Trump and still not win the delegates. Think of this way, at the end of the season, it is not the team who scored the most runs that go to the World Series. It is the team with the most wins. It's time for Marco Rubio and John Kasich to get out of the way and let Donald Trump and Ted Cruz battle this out. The reason why I said in the last block, why it is actually helping Trump if Rubio stays in is because, right now the alternative to Trump are three choices, three. If you eliminate this, you only have one. So all the establishments, (inaudible) whatever we call them, the insider types that don't want Donald Trump maybe going to Rubio, maybe going to Cruz -- Kasich. But if you really want to stop him, you get rid of these, these guys drop out and you have one alternative. And then you can see who's going to win it --
WILLIAMS: All right. So here's an alternative view to this numbers chart, one, if you narrow the field to just republicans, last night, it would have been a very close victory for Donald Trump. The second thing to say is that if you look at republican women, they are not going for Donald Trump. In fact, that gender gap seems to be expanding. Third thing to say is we talk all about Trump, because Trump had a great night. But don't forget, Cruz, I think he had a surprising night. And right now, if you look at the delegate count that you were just saying, Cruz is only 100 delegates.
BOLLING: Forget that.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: How are you going to forget that?
BOLLING: Because it doesn't matter anymore, Juan.
WILLIAMS: I'm telling you, it does matter.
BOLLING: It doesn't matter anymore because the winner, 25 --
WILLIAMS: Don't you have to have a certain number of delegates to claim the nomination?
BOLLING: Listen, there are 25 contests left.
WILLIAMS: Yeah.
BOLLING: Nineteen of them are winner take all. The winner takes the most.
WILLIAMS: Yes, but what I think --
BOLLING: I think the winner --
PERINO: There are seven are winner take all.
BOLLING: There's winner --
WILLIAMS: Right.
BOLLING: Well --
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: What are rest are proportional.
WILLIAMS: Correct.
PERINO: . unless you get over 50 percent.
WILLIAMS: Correct.
BOLLING: It's not as not exactly correct. I mean, I eat these numbers up. I'm telling you, the winner take all --
PERINO: I know. I know nothing.
BOLLING: The winner takes the most and, that means Donald Trump has a huge when he wins a contest, even if Ted Cruz comes really close.
WILLIAMS: But I understand --
GUTFELD: Wait a minute. Does anybody have the right assessment of these phrases please, because I keep hearing two different things?
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: Believe me.
BOLLING: We said it around.
WILLIAMS: Pay attention to delegate --
PERINO: Winner takes all and winner take most are just definitely not the same thing.
BOLLING: But they are very similar and they're certainly not proportional.
PERINO: Well, yes.
BOLLING: They are very different from proportional.
PERINO: But they're not.
BOLLING: Which -- for the most part, every race until last night.
GUILFOYLE: Yes.
BOLLING: It's proportional.
PERINO: All and most I just think Webster's would agree are not the same thing.
BOLLING: Absolutely, but very similar --
GUTFELD: Do you mean Webster?
GUILFOYLE: Wait.
GUTFELD: Or the dictionary?
GUILFOYLE: So this is --
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
GUILFOYLE: Yes, yes, yes. What we're going to do is everyone take a.
(CROSSTALK)
GUILFOYLE: A quick commercial break. Everyone grab your thesaurus, your Webster's dictionary, whatever you can do. We're going to battle it out, which means which. And we'll be back. Directly ahead, Bernie Sanders scores a surprise upset over Hillary Clinton in Michigan. Well his momentum derails Hillary's fight for the democratic nomination, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PERINO: Bernie Sanders has the momentum coming out of his stunning upset victory in the Michigan primary last night. He beat his democratic rival Hillary Clinton. It's a major win for the Vermont senator, considering that Clinton led Sanders by double digits in pre-election polls in Michigan this year, just last week. What does this tell us about Clinton's chances in the (inaudible) states for the general election? Well, Ed Henry, chief White House correspondent joins us from Miami with more. And Ed, I will bring it up here, but I'm surprised you came on this show today. And you know exactly what I mean.
ED HENRY, CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Oh, I wonder.
PERINO: OK, I'm going to ask you the question. Just last week, one of the polls showed Hillary Clinton at 21 percent lead over Bernie Sanders. Late deciders went with Sanders, but what was it? Do we know what it was that made him decide to go with him? And did it surprise the Hillary Clinton team to be beaten so badly last night in Michigan?
HENRY: It did. Just moments before, it was finally called. They were telling us privately, the Clinton camp, that they thought they still had Michigan. That it was tight, but they were going to win. I think two things are significant. Number one, this is the Sanders' playbook. They've been telling this for a few weeks. And we're basically waiting for Michigan to happen to see whether Sanders was going to be for real at this point in the campaign or not. Meaning that they had said, look, once we get it out of the South, where Clinton is running the table, largely because of the African-American vote, they felt they'd be strong in the Rust Belt. The state of Michigan, Ohio next Tuesday, Illinois. Because people being upset about the loss of manufacturing jobs and Sanders' message, playing into that. Much like the Trump message is playing into that on the Republican side.
So he passes the first test. The other thing to watch is, I mean, look at these exit polls. Where Democratic voters -- this wasn't including Republicans in Michigan -- were saying by essentially an 80-20 margin, that if they cared about honesty and trustworthiness in a candidate, they went 80 percent to Sanders, 20 percent to Clinton.
The Clinton camp wants to say there is no hangover from the e-mail issues. That suggests even Democrats are saying they don't find her honest and trustworthy.
PERINO: K.G.
GUILFOYLE: Hi, Ed. So what do you think Sanders' idea is for going forward, a path for himself? Obviously, they're probably encouraged. And his supporters sort of rejuvenated by this big upset and win that they had in Michigan. So what are the thoughts from the campaign at this point?
HENRY: Well, they think they're going to do well in the Rust Belt, like I noted. But I think, for the Clinton camp, they feel like don't forget that this state of Florida, there's a debate here tonight in Miami.
But on top of that, next Tuesday, of course, voters go to the polls here in Florida. And you've got a mother lode of delegates. And Quinnipiac came out with a poll today saying Clinton is leading, basically, 2-1 over Sanders.
And so I just gave you the Sanders play book that seems to be working in the early stages in the Midwest. But were I think the Sanders campaign has struggled, and the Clinton camp is running on all cylinders, is in the South. The Sanders camp has largely written off the South. Clinton has dug in; she's got that edge with African-American voters.
And come next Tuesday, even if Sanders does well in the Midwest and some of those battlegrounds I mentioned, if Clinton cleans up here in Florida, the math is going to get very difficult for Sanders.
PERINO: It is important, I think, to point out that Democrats last night. African-American Democrats went 35 percent for Bernie Sanders, his highest percentage to date. Juan Williams.
WILLIAMS: That's what I want to ask about. By the way, Ed, I think that if you had eliminated independents...
GUTFELD: Killed them?
WILLIAMS: Eliminated them as voters, Gregory...
BOLLING: Quartered them.
WILLIAMS: ... in Michigan, Clinton would have won among Democrats last night.
But let's go to the African-American question that Dana raised, because I mean, this whole thing was a shock. I read today this is the biggest upset in political history going back to New Hampshire. And I think it was, I forget what year but a long time ago.
But my point about the black voters is, so you look at it. What's stunning to me is Clinton won among black voters, 65-31. We've never seen Bernie Sanders get 31 percent of the black vote.
But going into Ohio, going into other Midwestern industrial states where black people are suffering high levels of unemployment, it could be that you have a breakdown. That's bad news. Talk about a sign of trouble on the dashboard. That's it, buddy.
HENRY: Right. And I was in Cleveland with Hillary Clinton, and there obviously is a large African-American population there. And you're right, Juan, that if all of a sudden, this is what the Sanders camp has been saying. It didn't work in the first couple of months, but now maybe it is starting to, which is they're saying look, we don't have to beat Clinton among African-American voters, but if we just take a larger share, like he did in Michigan last night, she could have real problems moving forward.
PERINO: Eric Bolling.
BOLLING: Just a quick comment, and I'll throw it over to Greg. The comment is I'm blown away that Hillary Clinton lost Michigan given the amount of time she spent in Flint and the amount of backing she gave Flint, Michigan, on the water crisis. That's shocking. I do think the math is over, though.
PERINO: Greg.
GUTFELD: Isn't -- Ed, isn't -- are we basically just inflating a deflating balloon? That this -- we're making this into a really big deal, but it really isn't? I mean, he's -- she's got the nomination. It's fun to talk about, though.
HENRY: I mean, look, yes and no. I'm trying to be realistic in covering this that Hillary Clinton mathematically -- you're right and I think Eric's right -- has a big mathematical edge. Only a small one, by the way, among pledged delegates. But because of the super delegates, the party bosses, has a big edge and is very likely to get this nomination.
But I don't think we should dismiss the fact that, in an important battleground state, not just among Democrats, but potentially a big battleground if Trump is the nominee. He's talked about putting that state into play for Republicans. Hillary Clinton struggles in a state like that, if she struggles in Ohio, what the Sanders camp is trying to do, frankly, from talking to them in private, is keep this going until June 7. That's when California votes.
There are a lot of liberals there, obviously, who like Sanders and they think they could win California. There's a mother lode of delegates there, as well. And so the longer he keeps this going, you're absolutely right. Clinton is still the odds-on favorite for the nominee. But she has more stumbles like last night, this is still -- this is still a race.
BOLLING: All right.
PERINO: OK. Up next, if the election was held today, who would win? The numbers are in, and we'll have details when "The Five" returns.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUTFELD: According to a new NBC poll, both Clinton and Sanders beat Trump by historic margins. Head to head, Clinton clobbers the Donald, 51 to 38; and Sanders, 55-37. And let's not forget, Sanders is a socialist. So if you're a voter railing against the establishment, you're still going to lose to Sanders, who's also anti-establishment, making the establishment versus non-establishment argument a joke.
Division surely divides us, but it doesn't conquer them. Quality still matters in steak, vodka and people.
The fact is, when choosing a candidate, you've got to ask these questions: Does this person have an optimistic, unifying vision for the country? Two, does this person offer specifics to realize that vision? Three, can this person actually win a general election?
Trump fulfills the first one hands down. The second one, not so much. And the third, not yet. To close that gap, he must address his weaknesses. He needs specifics, discipline, humility. Put a leash on it. Is that too much to ask?
Unless you're happy with a candidate who captures the plurality of the Republicans, but not the majority of Americans. To go from one to the other, the only path is scrutiny. Because the Dems will surely unload on the frontrunner come July. We're talking potential for a huge defeat. So why not give him a fighting chance? A friend doesn't let a friend drive drunk. Nor does he let him destroy a party.
So Juan, what should -- when the Trump campaign sees these numbers, should they be worried, or should they say -- tell themselves that it's early, that you know, people maybe, you know, don't know him well enough, because there are other candidates? Or should they be worried?
WILLIAMS: You know, I mean, let me just take it from the other point, from the Democrats' point of view.
GUTFELD: Yes.
WILLIAMS: Which is you almost think, gee, I think they're rooting for Trump. Right? Because they think he could lose, if you look at the numbers put up there, Greg.
But on the other hand, there's got to be a certain sense of be careful what you wish for. Because Trump, not only is he bringing out new people, but Trump is a media phenomenon, as we saw last night with the hour-long coverage.
GUTFELD: You're welcome.
WILLIAMS: I'm welcome? Why am I welcome?
GUTFELD: I'm saying how did he become a media phenomenon?
WILLIAMS: Right, because of media. I agree. But I was thinking about, if you just break it down right now, it's pretty -- it's pretty one-sided. Because even on issues like terrorism, which you would normally think national security is a conservative Republican issue, Clinton leads in plus 14 right now among a general election group, plus 19 on immigration. Plus 29 on handling an international crisis. They're even on the economy. Clinton is plus 21 with American women. Those are big numbers to overcome.
GUTFELD: Eric, do you think it's just too early?
BOLLING: Well, eight months out is a long time out. And don't forget, it's pretty -- pretty obvious to most that Hillary Clinton is going to be the nominee on that side. Right? We all just talked.
And on this side, really, there are three, four if you want to be really nice, two who are really likely to be the nominee. So once that whittles down to one, then I think those things tighten up. It tightened up with Mitt Romney against Barack Obama.
GUTFELD: True.
BOLLING: Eight months ago, Ben Carson would have probably beaten Ted Cruz or Donald Trump. So as things get closer, then they become -- the numbers, I think, become more important.
But your comment about why would you want someone who has a plurality of Republicans but not a majority of Americans? I don't think anyone -- there's a chance -- chance Donald Trump or Ted Cruz could get a majority of Republicans. No -- neither one of them will get a majority of Americans, ever. Nor will the Democrats get a majority.
GUTFELD: Yes. I guess in the general, just a lot of -- you want to get 51 percent is what I'll trying to say.
PERINO: Well, no. No. No, you have to get the Electoral College votes. Like, you could -- the popular vote...
GUTFELD: We'd never -- yes, we haven't gotten -- yes.
PERINO: It is a difference, and it's frustrating to people, but that's the system we have.
GUTFELD: Yes.
PERINO: I think it's a good one.
GUTFELD: What do you make of the poll?
PERINO: Well, here's the thing. Like, if you're expected to believe all the other polls that show him winning in other states, I think if you're the Trump team, you have to take this seriously, and you have to be just realistic about it. There's time; there's not a ton of time.
And also, if you think about it, in Idaho, that was the only state where Our Principles PAC -- that's the name of the that's doing the -- running the anti-Trump ads from the Republican side. The only state where they ran ads was in Idaho. The only Trump loss was in Idaho. They -- that is mild compared to what the Democrats will do to them, so I think that wishful thinking is the biggest enemy of any candidate.
And in -- Romney won 61 million total votes in 2012. Obama got 65 million. That's just -- it's a big gap, including all the challenges that Juan said. I'm like, yes, I would say this is a big deal, Kimberly.
GUILFOYLE: News cycle change every single day. And there's so much that can happen between now and then. He may have some issues if he ends up being the nominee, and it's likely to be Hillary. You know, then it's just -- it's all-out, you know, warfare. So if she, in fact, gets indicted or we find out that they tried to cover it up, this is a complete game changer. And you would be very surprised to see how people might react to that in terms of favorables or unfavorables.
GUTFELD: Excellent point. All right.
Directly ahead, it's a big day here on the "The Five." I got a haircut. Stay tuned for a special celebration, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WILLIAMS: Party time. We're not only excited about tonight's big primetime lineup here on the FOX News Channel, there's also something else we're celebrating today. Kimberly's birthday. So let's party with some cake and some of Kimberly's favorite snacks.
I think we begin with the lemon cake from Del Frisco's. We've got chicken wings. We've got potato skins.
GUILFOYLE: Yes. I know. I'm not looking that healthy. Am I? I'm like, "Dana, are you going to have a piece of something?"
She goes, "I am going to have one of those carrots."
And I go, she's going to eat the wings. She goes, "Nope, some of that sauce."
What? I go, "You're going to eat vegetables? You must be very inexpensive to have at parties."
PERINO: I want to eat all of it.
GUILFOYLE: Well, this is some of my favorites. In fact, this is the real deal. I had a piece of this Del Frisco's yellow cake this week already. So what does that tell you? Issues.
BOLLING: I went over to Felix...
GUILFOYLE: Yes.
BOLLING: ... to see if he could get the butter cake that Juan recommended. And they said, "We only sell those in slices." So we got her the big yellow lemon cake. After we take a bite of this, you're going to see what happens. They'll just come in...
PERINO: Like vultures.
GUTFELD: Are you calling the people who do this show vultures, Dana?
PERINO: Yes.
GUTFELD: OK.
PERINO: They're like vultures.
GUILFOYLE: There's nothing better than sharing your birthday with your friends. So thank you to all of you and to the control room. Our wonderful producers are making this happen today.
And I also want to do on a personal note. It's great to share a birthday with someone special. A big birthday wish to Anna Capoignas (ph) from Chantilly, Virginia. She has M.S., and she is bedridden. We share a birthday. She's a huge, huge fan of "The Five." So we want to wish you, on behalf of the "The Five" and FOX News Channel, a very happy birthday. Isn't that sweet and nice?
PERINO: That's nice.
WILLIAMS: That's wonderful.
GUILFOYLE: Thank you for sending...
WILLIAMS: Kimberly, let's -- let's have a Kimberly Guilfoyle moment. Where were you born?
GUILFOYLE: I was born in San Francisco.
WILLIAMS: San Francisco?
GUILFOYLE: Yes.
WILLIAMS: And you're a Pisces.
GUILFOYLE: I am a Pisces.
WILLIAMS: What does that mean? What do you...
GUILFOYLE: It's a very fun sign.
PERINO: That's why you like water? Is that why you like water?
GUILFOYLE: I do love controlled water. Thank you for bringing that up. I must include that in my evening tonight. I like all kinds of controlled water. I'm not particularly fond of sharks.
BOLLING: Where would you find controlled water?
GUILFOYLE: I find it in my bathtub.
PERINO: Your new bath oils.
GUILFOYLE: Indoor, outdoor shower. Yes, Dana got me this amazing bath gel. It suds up so nice all over you. And also for the bathtub, the foaming one and then body oil that's quite nice.
So I'm going to cut some of this cake.
WILLIAMS: Gregory was...
GUTFELD: I want to apologize -- I want to apologize for the present that I got you. I should have poked holes in the box.
WILLIAMS: Oh, my God.
GUILFOYLE: You're disgusting.
I know. I knew it. One way or the other. You are trying to get into my apartment.
GUTFELD: You would have loved him. Fluffy McNutter.
GUILFOYLE: Is that who it was? He has -- he has definitely like...
BOLLING: Greg is on a diet.
GUTFELD: Yes. I am starting my vacation diet.
GUILFOYLE: Greg is fasting, because he wants to get skinsies.
GUTFELD: I've got to go to the beach in two weeks.
WILLIAMS: So let me just tell the audience that last night we did a midnight show. Right? And at midnight, guess what? They brought in a cupcake with candles, and we all sang happy birthday.
PERINO: Well, it wasn't really a cupcake.
GUILFOYLE: It was actually...
WILLIAMS: It wasn't a cupcake.
GUTFELD: A blueberry muffin.
GUILFOYLE: It was a blueberry muffin. It was delicious. I ate part of it, and I shared the rest of it with Ronan, and we really enjoyed it.
BOLLING: So do you have plans tonight?
GUTFELD: Yes. What time?
GUILFOYLE: You want to know? Yes. You're not coming. Security, doorman's in the front...
GUTFELD: A chaperone.
GUILFOYLE: Going with my girlfriends. We have Ainsley Earhardt, awesome friends.
WILLIAMS: Well, I think Gregory would love it. All right. "One More Thing" is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BOLLING: Time for "One More Thing." K.G. has a special one.
GUILFOYLE: Thank you so much. And a live look right now at the Reagan Library, where the public is currently paying their respects to former first lady, Nancy Reagan. She died Sunday at the age of 94.
And earlier today, the Reagan family held a short service at a funeral home in Santa Monica. Remember, the public can pay respects for a few hours today and tomorrow. The funeral is Friday, and that is closed to the public.
She will be missed. She was a national treasure. God bless her. Hearts, prayers to her family.
BOLLING: Amen. Amen. Absolutely.
All right. I just want to remind you, stay right here on FOX News Channel all through the night. John Kasich, 7 p.m. At 9 p.m., Ted Cruz. At 11 p.m., Marco Rubio. At 10 p.m., Donald Trump and Sean Hannity sent this clip along for us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We had no growth in the last two quarters, essentially no growth. It's unheard of.
If China gets down to 7 percent, it's like they'll have a national catastrophe. We have nothing. We have nothing left. We've been stripped. If we can get our growth up to 4 percent or 5 percent, then I think that's absolutely doable. We can pay for everything. We can have plenty of money left over for infrastructure. You know, the infrastructure of our country and also great jobs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: And don't forget "The Factor" at 8.
OK, Dana, you're up.
PERINO: I'm so excited about this. Remember mascot theory, which is a theory that I use to decide who's going to win -- or predict who's going to win a sporting competition? Well, there's something very cool that I just learned about. It is called March -- Mammal March Madness. Three "M's." Mammal March Madness. And it is actually -- it's a real thing. You can follow it on Twitter. It's been cracking me up. They pair, for example, a polar bear and a lemming. Who do you think is going to win that? A snow leopard and a Siberian chipmunk. And you actually have scientific -- scientists that are weighing in on who could actually win and what these kinds of...
BOLLING: In a fight?
PERINO: A lot of fun. Especially mom and dads, if you want to get involved with your kids, do something fun for March Madness. I would say Mammal March Madness is just a great invention.
BOLLING: Is it, like, a riot -- a race? A fight?
PERINO: Well, it just depends. Like so, for example, if you are a lemming, I mean, you can hide from the polar bear. And then it just depends how long can you hide?
That would be you, Greg. Cute.
GUTFELD: For a political campaign.
BOLLING: Greg, you're up.
GUTFELD: All right.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: Greg's Nutrition Tips.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: You know, I'm going on my yearly annual vacation diet. And I always find that, if I lack self-control, always enlist the help of a friend.
Let's take a look at these two fellows that are standing behind Donald Trump. This guy realizes that the best way to control your intake is to have a friend feed you your nachos. Nachos before the Trump rally in Orlando. I thought that was an excellent way to lose weight. It takes twice as long when somebody is feeding you.
GUILFOYLE: Is he available? That would be so fun.
GUTFELD: His name is Marius Lutz.
BOLLING: The feeder or the feedee?
GUTFELD: I'm not sure.
PERINO: Hilarious.
GUILFOYLE: I always get chicken wing sauce all over.
BOLLING: Juan is up.
WILLIAMS: All right. So last night around the globe, people witnessed a rare celestial event. A total eclipse of the sun. Only when the Earth, moon and sun are perfectly aligned do you get this. Sky watchers around the globe, Philippines, Indonesia, India saw it. Look at them. And then last night on Alaska Airlines, one of the planes at 37,000 feet got an ideal look. Unbelievable.
PERINO: Pretty cool.
GUTFELD: Fake!
WILLIAMS: It's fake?
GUTFELD: Didn't happen! False flag.
BOLLING: Parking lot in Houston.
GUTFELD: Yes.
BOLLING: Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. "Special Report" up next -- on deck. Next. Yes.
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