Gowdy and Scott on Mueller probe, new book

This is a rush transcript from "The Story," April 3, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST: Thank you, Bret. So, in moments, my exclusive interview with congressmen/authors now, Trey Gowdy and Senator Tom Scott will join me. What they make of these new revelations tonight in the Russia investigation and the scathing op-ed written by Andrew McCabe's wife. Also, those swirling rumors on the Hill that many Republicans are ready to give up on their conservative agenda until after the midterm elections.

But first tonight, the latest on two stories that are breaking right now. At the U.S.-Mexico border, where the president said today he will send our military, as a caravan of migrants in a coordinated effort to try to cross through Mexico and to the United States border to then demand asylum in the United States. And also, tonight in California where authorities are trying to figure out what let a woman to open fire on fellow employees at YouTube headquarters leaving several people injured before shooting and killing herself. Trace Gallagher joins us now live from our West Coast Newsroom with the developments as we get started tonight on 'The Story.' Hi, Trace.

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST: Hi, Martha. You're talking about a nightmare scenario: active shooter inside a 200,000 square-foot building with some 1700 people inside. The initial barrage of my 911 calls came in at 12: 46 West Coast time. Police were on the scene two minutes later and saw hundreds of employees fleeing the building. Initial reports said the shooter entered the back of the YouTube building and that shots were being fired outside. Police have not yet confirmed that, but they have said the female shooter did make her way inside the building. Here's the police chief. Watch.


ED BARBERINI, SAN BRUNO POLICE CHIEF: It was very chaotic as you can imagine. We did encounter one victim with apparent gunshot wounds towards the front of the business as we arrived. Several minutes later, while conducting a search of the premises, office located a second individual with a gunshot wound that may have been self-inflicted. We're still on confirming that.


GALLAGHER: For now, the working theory is the shooter came to the YouTube headquarters targeting a male and she was found inside a room with a man who was also shot and is in critical condition tonight. The shooter then apparently took her own life, but others were also wounded. And for now, it remains unclear if they were inside or outside the building, but one of the victims shot in the leg actually made her way into a Carl's Jr. Restaurant next door. Here's one of the employees.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn't hear the gunshots. I came out and I saw her. She was on the dining room with a couple of people who are taking care of her and then I tried to get something to stop the blood flow. I got a bungee cord and tied it on her leg.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you do it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just got the bungee cord and I tied it and try to make it as tight as possible.


GALLAGHER: Yes, her injury is not considered life-threatening. Just to be clear, there are at least four victim total -- one in critical condition, one serious, one with nonlife-threatening injuries, and the shooter who is dead. We don't know if the shooter was associated with YouTube, but her victims were all on campus at the time. San Bruno, as you know, was just on the northern edge of the Silicon Valley, an area that certainly remains a driving force in the economy, and the shooting there has gathered great response.

The president tweeting: 'Was just briefed on the shooting at YouTube's headquarters in San Bruno, California, our thoughts and prayers are with everybody involved. Thank you to our phenomenal law enforcement officers and first responders that are currently on the scene.'

Apple CEO Tim Cook writing: 'From everyone at Apple, we send our sympathy and support to the team at YouTube and Google, especially the victims and their families.' And you recall, Martha, it was just three weeks ago in the wake of the shooting of Parkland, Florida that YouTube banned all "gun sales" and 'how to' gun videos. Again, this shooting, very much tonight, appears to be a case of domestic violence. Martha.

MACCALLUM: Thank you very much. So, also breaking tonight, a showdown at the border, the likes of which we really have not seen as President Trump calls for our military to get down there and protect it and links all of this to the future of NAFTA.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're going to be guarding our border with the military. It's a big step. We really haven't done that before, certainly not very much before. But we will be doing things with Mexico and they have to do it, otherwise I'm not doing the NAFTA deal.


MACCALLUM: So, the Mexican government tonight is asking for some clarification on exactly what that means from the White House. Despite this from the U.S. Ambassador to Mexico just last night.


AMBASSADOR GUTIERREZ, MEXICAN AMBASSADOR TO US: We certainly understand the concerns, not only that President Trump has, but people in the United States here have about immigration. And I have to say that Mexico is now largely a country that resists immigrants. It's a source and a destiny for immigrants. So, we understand this very clearly.


MACCALLUM: That's interesting comments from him last night. So, this is the caravan from Honduras disperses in part in Mexico. And there are reports that more than 100 immigrants have boarded a train that is headed to the United States. So, here now, Brandon Judd, President of the National Border Patrol Union; and Juan Hernandez, Former Advisor to Mexican President Vicente Fox, who is a frequent critic of President Trump. Let me start actually by showing both of you this tweet from Vicente Fox. He says to President Trump, "To militarize the southern border is to provoke more hate and distance even further our nation. Somebody has to talk some sense into him. He's elevating his hate towards Mexico causing a greater conflict." And yet, Juan, you know, you heard from the ambassador to the United States from Mexico last night, he said we get it. You know, we have the same kind of problems that we want an orderly immigration system. There's every reason to understand why Americans and the president might be alarmed at what's going on.

JUAN HERNANDEZ, FORMER ADVISER TO MEXICAN PRESIDENT VICENTE FOX (via Skype): Well, yes, I was expecting that President Trump after Easter Sunday to have a little bit more of a humanitarian Christian attitude. I mean, we're talking about a few hundred people; some it's up 1200 people from Central America -- mostly from Honduras. They're looking for some type of help, asylum in the United States. They're not going to invade the United States. They're in a crisis to Honduras.

MACCALLUM: You know, Juan, I understand -- let me just interrupt you one second. Juan, I understand where you're coming from in terms of wanting to help people and wanting to help people is a great thing. The United States, I think, is probably the most benevolent nation in the world, when you look aid that goes to other countries. But it doesn't really matter if it's only a few hundred people or if it's thousands of people. What we heard from the ambassador to Mexico last night, when he spoke with Bret, was that Mexico turns back tens of thousands of people back over that Honduras border. So, I mean, it just, it sort of raises a lot of questions about the process here. I mean, imagine people were coming across the border from Mexico, and then buses and caravans were being arranged for them to go straight into Canada. I mean, is that something that you would expect Canada to be OK with?

HERNANDEZ: No, of course not, but the attitude of President Trump saying that he's going to have thing called it a build the wall at any cost. We're talking about the friends of south of the border -- Mexico. Mexico and Canada are the closest allies to the United States, and of the millions of people who have blood from Mexico living in the United States. Mexico is not a nation of enemies. I have never --

MACCALLUM: I don't think -- no one is suggesting that Mexico is a nation of enemies. We're talking about the constructive way to deal with this problem. Sorry for stepping on you, we have a little bit of a delay in the signal. But I want to get Brandon Judd in here, the Border Patrol Union President, with your response to what we've said so far, Brandon.

BRANDON JUDD, PRESIDENT, BORDER PATROL UNION: Well, what you have to look at is you have to look at what we need to do to, in fact, secure the border. And if you're a fan of border security, you have to appreciate what President Trump has done to this point. He's put an awful lot of time and awful lot of effort. It was his number one domestic policy when he was campaigning and he's followed through on that. When he talks about putting the military on the border, we've done that before. President Obama did that. We did that during the Vicente Fox's time as president in Mexico. So, he's not escalating any hate. He's not any escalating any discontent. What he's trying to do is he's trying to secure a sovereign nation from people that are crossing the borders illegally. If they want to come here and claim asylum, let them do it properly, let them do it lawfully. But that's not what's happening.


MACCALLUM: That's exactly, again, what the ambassador said last night, Juan, is that there need to be a lawful -- you know what, no one can hear you if you don't wait for me to ask you the question and then I'll wait for you to answer. That's exactly what the ambassador said tonight that there should be a process. There needs to be a process. You can't just have an open border that people can cross whenever they want or need. Go ahead.

HERNANDEZ: Yes, you're right. And since 2014, to set as an example, Mexico has put in place when this whole begun -- in which they have detained thousands and thousands of people Central America coming into Mexico who are on their way to the United States. So, once again, Mexico is not the enemy. Mexico is going to have elections this year, they will have a new president most likely (INAUDIBLE), and people stand up to Trump. But you also see a man who will be able to discuss business, and will discuss a better relationship, but without the insults that President Trump keeps directing toward the good people of Mexico.


JUDD: I'm sorry I couldn't hear him very well, but what I will tell you is this --

MACCALLUM: It's true that your audio isn't that good, with respect to Brandon. So, it's not that he didn't hear you, it's that he literally didn't hear you. Brandon, go ahead.

JUDD: But if you look at -- if you look at putting the military on the border, we're not actually talking about putting them in enforcement posture. That's the border -- that's my job, that's Border Patrol agents' job. It's our job to actually determine whether or not somebody is here in the United States illegally. What they do for us, is they free up our resources. If you look at this multibillion dollar industry, with the smugglers and the cartels do, is they cross these asylum-seekers, if you will, across the border illegally instead of through the ports of entry, and what that does is that ties our hands because we then have to respond, we have to takes those individuals into custody, it takes manpower out of the field and it leaves gaps in the border which then allows the smugglers to run their higher profit products through the border like opioids, drugs, and other contraband. And so, the smugglers know exactly what they're doing and they're using these asylum-seekers as pawns. That's why we have to do something to secure the border so that we have an orderly immigration process. And without that, we're going to continue to talk about this year after year, after year, and it's always going to be a topic of presidential campaigns.

MACCALLUM: And I think, you know, the president is unique in that he is not averse to tying trade agreements and other economic discussions to the issues of the security at the border. And my guess is that you're going to see a response from Mexico that says let's work together in some way on this. So, we will see. We will see. Gentlemen, thank you very much. Good to have both of you with us tonight.

JUDD: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: So, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein is giving Robert Mueller the thumbs up to dig into Paul Manafort's business dealings that happened a long time before he joined the Trump campaign. So, what about the scope of this investigation? We've learned quite a bit about that tonight. We'll bring it to you. Ed Henry joins me in a moment to answer some of those big questions that have arisen today, coming up next. Also, president Trump says that he wants to pull our troops out of Syria. General Jack Keane says we should not repeat the mistakes of President Obama that led to the proliferation of ISIS in Iraq and Libya.


TRUMP: I want to get out. I want to bring our troops back home. I want to start rebuilding our nation.




TRUMP: There's nobody been tougher on Russia. And with that being said, I think, I could have a very good relationship with President Putin, I think. And remember this, getting along with Russia is a good thing.


MACCALLUM: President Trump standing firmly with three Eastern European allies at the White House today and tab low that could really only be interpreted by Russia as a sign of real solidarity between these countries and the United States right on Russia's border. Leaders from Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia -- nations that were once part of the Soviet Union, but now long independent Baltic states determined to stay that way. Today, in a message, no doubt watched by Russia, they profess their strong connection to the United States.


KERSTI KALJULAID, PRESIDENT OF ESTONIA: Today, we stand together; like- minded partners and allies.

DALIA GRYBAUSKAITE, PRESIDENT OF LITHUANIA: We are standing together and we hope that as the president said, (INAUDIBLE) will be even better.

RAIMONDS VEJONIS, PRESIDENT OF LATVIA: The United States of America is our closest friend and ally.


MACCALLUM: Here now: General Jack Keane, Chairman of the Institute for the Study of War and Fox News Senior Strategic Analyst. So, if Vladimir Putin, general, is watching that in his office at the Kremlin, what do you think his reaction is?

GEN. JACK KEANE (RET.), FOX NEWS SENIOR STRATEGIC ANALYST: Well, first of all, he knows for a fact that President Trump has spread to the NATO alliance. President Trump is absolutely backing the Eastern European countries. Putin is conducting massive information of political warfare against these countries. He's hitting them with cyber every single day; he's trying to rally a bunch of minorities, create a situation where he has to go in there like he did with Crimea. We're all over this.

MACCALLUM: I mean, I think it can be understood that actions speak louder than words. The president has said he believes he could have a good relationship with Vladimir Putin and yet he stands there with these three countries, who you know Putin would love to find a way to get back under the mother Russia title.

KEANE: I got a theory about that. It's interesting because we are pushing back on Russia and confronting him more than his predecessors did for eight years. Under President Trump, that's actually happening. But he is conspicuous in his silence and not criticizing Putin for anything. So, what's really going on? I think he's itching to get in the room with Putin. He knows he's a thug, he knows he's a bully, he knows he's ambitious, he's aggressive, he knows that Russia is becoming more capable and more dangerous. He knows he's manipulated world leaders, he wants in that room with him. He knows he also had to deal with guys like this.

MACCALLUM: I think you're exactly right. I want to talk about Syria. Here's the president on Syria and also right after that. Our envoy Brett McGurk they're singing slightly different tunes here. Watch.


TRUMP: As far as Syria is concerned, our primary mission in terms of that was getting rid of ISIS. We've almost completed that task and will be making a decision very quickly. I want to get out, I want to bring our troops back home, I want to start rebuilding our nation. Sometimes it's time to come back home.

BRET MCGURK, SPECIAL PRESIDENTIAL ENVOY FOR THE GLOBAL COALITION TO COUNTER ISIL: We're in Syria to fight ISIS that is our mission. And our mission isn't over, and we're going to complete that mission.


KEANE: Well, McGurk is right, the mission isn't over. There's 3000 fighters between Iraq and Syria. The ISIS leadership is in the Southeastern part of Syria -- along the Euphrates River. We have to clean all that out. And even then, when we finally do that, we have to recognize that winning the conflict is not sufficient. You have to win the peace after that. That's what Obama walked away from. Bush won the war in Iraq. Obama lost the piece. The same thing and Libya. We deposed Gaddafi. The new regime came in, elected by his people, wanted some help to deal with the radicals. We've said no; we lost the whole country. We were out of there and we lost our embassy. And it's a failed state. You've got to be willing to work the peace after the conflict. Hoping the president gets some advice from his new national security advisor to that effect.

MACCALLUM: You know, you have to wonder what the president said right after that was directed at Saudi Arabia, which makes me wonder, you've use of these meetings between the crown prince of Saudi Arabia -- he's now in the United States, he's out on the West Coast, he spend a lot of time here, a lot of time with the president, and that Saudi Arabia was president's first stop. He said today that if you want us to help you with Syria, you're going to have to pay up and some people said, you know, that's not the way it works. What do you think?

KEANE: Absolutely. Actually, I know for a fact that the deal was made that Saudi Arabia would give the United States $4 billion, anticipating the recovery effort in Syria. That has not happened. So, we've got to call out the Saudis on this. The president is actually right. Listen, when he -- that's one of the great things that he has done. Why is the United States the only bill payer here? In NATO, in other places. The other participants have got to ante up and this is their neighborhood. This is where all his hell is going on, in their neighborhood. So, they've got to pay some of the price tag to help these countries recover. I think he's better at that.

MACCALLUM: Absolutely. So, you've got this changing dynamic where you have the Gulf States led by Saudi Arabia, the United States, and Israel on one side of the fence. And then, you've got the leadership in Syria and Iran, the other side of the fence. Saudi Arabia and the gulf states are going to say, we don't want you to leave, don't leave Syria because this is part of the deal, right? And they're going to have to pay up.

KEANE: He's actually already said that to the president. They don't -- they don't want him to leave.

MACCALLUM: General, thank you. Always good to see you. So, coming up: a well-known columnist, Tom Friedman, says that he thinks that former Presidents Bush and Obama are actually waiting in the wings to fix the country after the coming constitutional crisis of the Trump administration. Watch this.


TOM FRIEDMAN, COLUMNIST AND PULITZER PRIZE WINNER: Barack Obama and George W. Bush have both been staying out of the political fray despite all the attacks on them from Trump, it's because they understand they're going to have to come together and face this constitutional crisis.


MACCALLUM: So, that's what's happening. We're going to get reaction from Former Trump Campaign Manager Corey Lewandowski to that. And from the Hill, new authors from South Carolina, Congressman Trey Gowdy and Senator Tim Scott, join me next.


MACCALLUM: So, a just revealed memo: Deputy Attorney Rod Rosenstein gives the OK to the Special Counsel Robert Mueller to dig into a period of Paul Manafort's business dealings that occurred long before he became Donald Trump's campaign manager. This as this lawyer becomes the first person to be sentenced to time behind bars as a result of the Russian investigation broadly, although the charge is lying to the FBI, it's not collusion. We're going to get reaction from Congressman Trey Gowdy and Senator Tim Scott and some more from in all of that in just a moment. But first, Ed Henry at the White House, tracking all of the latest with all of this tonight. Hi Ed.

ED HENRY, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Martha, great to see you. The first look we're getting at this memo that was buried deep in a 57-page court filing by Robert Mueller, it was submitted by the special counsel showing that his authority was widened to covered a lot more than just Paul Manafort's alleged coordination with Russia officials, specifically this may give President Trump more fodder for his criticism that this investigation has gotten too far in its scope. The bottom line is, specifically, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein authorized Mueller to investigate any crimes related to payments that Manafort receive from the government of the Ukrainian president who served from 2010 to 2014. So, not in Russia. And long before the Trump campaign was in business. That news came as we saw the first sentencing in the probe today, 32-year-old Dutch attorney, Alex van der Zwaan, sentenced for the lying to federal investigators. That carries a maximum penalty of five years in prison. But the attorney whose father-in-law is a Russia oligarch with ties to President Vladimir Putin got 30 days in prison, a $20,000 fine, and two months of supervised release. He worked with Rick Gates who's a former business partner, of course, of Manafort, and is now cooperating with the special counsel. The council now probing contacts between Gates, Manafort, and the lawyer, and a suspected operative for Russian intelligence as well.

Meanwhile, the wife of fired FBI Deputy Director, Andrew McCabe, went on the record for the very first time, calling last year a nightmare for her family. Remember, she ran unsuccessfully for Virginia State Senate seat in 2015. Now insist her husband did not campaign for her despite this photo we so many times it appeared to show otherwise. As for the more than $600,000 she received in campaign money with help from then Virginia Governor Terry McAuliffe -- of course, a close Clinton ally. She says, the FBI concluded there was no conflict for her husband because he was overseeing the Clinton email investigation after the campaign was over. Now, in a Washington Post op-ed, she writes: 'I have spent countless hours trying to understand how the president and so many others can share such destructive lies about me. I want people to know that the whole story, that everything is based on just false and utterly absurd.' Now, critics of McCabe believe the ethics findings were off-base and that McCabe's real problem is that he had those unauthorized leaks to the media which were found by the FBI Office of Professional Responsibility and he lied to investigators. Martha.

MACCALLUM: Ed, thank you very much. Joining me now: Congressman Trey Gowdy and Senator Tom Scott, both from South Carolina, of course, and authors of the new book: 'Unified: How Our Unlikely Friendship Gives Us Hope for A Divided Country." Gentlemen, it's great to have both of you here. Thank you so much for being here.


MACCALLUM: Just a quick thought, you know, coming off of Ed's report, first of all with regard to the McCabe's who have both spoken out now in editorials. They believe that they were wronged by this investigation. Any thoughts on that?

REP. TREY GOWDY, R-SOUTH CAROLINA: Well, let's wait and find out what the inspector general -- you know, people are not inherently objective about themselves, so I get the desire to defend yourself. But let's let a neutral investigator, in this case the inspector general, issue his report and then that we'll know exactly what Mr. McCabe did or did not do. As for Ms. McCabe, that was a couple years ago. I don't hear that many Republicans talking about it, so I get the desire to defend yourself, but I don't know what anybody's accusing her of right now.

MACCALLUM: What about the timeline in terms of she said we've got the money from my campaign long before her husband was involved in the Hillary Clinton investigation?

GOWDY: That may well be true. He was not disciplined for a failure to act in the Hillary Clinton investigation, he was disciplined for a lack of candor, which could be a lie or it could be a material omission.

MACCALLUM: Senator Scott, in terms of the widening of this investigation and how far back they're going, it feels like this is largely an effort by Paul Manafort's attorney to say, you know, you shouldn't be looking into this part of my past. They may have an argument for doing that, right?

SEN. TIM SCOTT(R), SOUTH CAROLINA: Certainly, it seems like the investigation has expanded, and perhaps it expanded back in August where we're now finding out that the definition of the footprint was extended. But the reality of it is if you're Manafort's attorney, you're looking for a way to dissect the case and find a way to get your client in a better position. The fact of the matter is that to be able to investigate Ukraine did not seem like it was connected unless it's a connection of intent with Russia.

MACCALLUM: All right. We will see. So, the book is called, 'Unified: How Our Unlikely Friendship Gives Us Hope for a Divided Country.' And I want to read the dedication because I thought this was particularly touching, and I want to share it with everybody. Two artists were, Tim's grandfather, who grew up in a segregated south in a polarized world, but who learned to love everyone. His faith and his perspective were transformational. And to Jesse Lee Evans, Trey's grandmother, who shared with artists a love of South Carolina and a profound faith in God. In a segregated age in which they lived, the two never met, but two generations later, their grandsons became the best of friends.

SCOTT: Yeah. It really is a story of progress. So often, we find people criticizing the south and south plants, specifically the start of the civil war. The truth of the matter is that the southern heart has come so far in such a short period of time. And when we were born, we would not have been able to play together, lunch together, drink out from the same water fountain, but 50 years later, the good Lord and the good people of South Carolina have transformed who we are, and that has provided an unlikely friendship to start and to blossom. So much so that after the church shooting, Emanuel, another church shooting, the first person I turned to was Trey Gowdy, a white guy from the very state that has a provocative, and yet, rich history on race. And it's just a testament on how far we can come if we focus on the things that we have in common. And in 'Unified' we try to help people understand though we differ on some parts of law enforcement, some part of education, spiritually we're in different corners at times, the fact of the matter is if you focus on the things you have in common, our country as polarizing as it's seems today, could still be one nation under God, indivisibles with the best and brightest days of our future ahead of her.

MACCALLUM: Congress is not that all popular, but people seem to like you two, because when I tweeted that you're both coming on the show tonight, I got an enormous response. So, I think there's going to be a really genuine embracing of wanting to read this story. Why was this story important to you to write, Trey?

GOWDY: For a lot of the reasons Tim just said, but also -- I'm worried about that divisiveness. I like contrast. I like the fact that we don't root for the same sports teams, eat at the same restaurant on the same night, same time, but conflict is debilitating. And I just feel our country being torn apart such that we're not even willing to have a conversation. And Tim and I don't agree on lots of things. It's never interfered with our friendship. We mention Democrats by name in the book that we have wonderful personal relationships with. My 21-year-old daughter doesn't agree with me on anything, politically, literally on anything.


GOWDY: But they're still our family. So, you still have the conversation. And I don't want us to get to the point where we kind of retreat to our own corners, questions one's other motives, and then forget the fact. We have a lot in common if we just listen to each other.

MACCALLUM: A lot of people, senator, believe that the president has led to this divisiveness in the country. What do you think?

SCOTT: They're two points of reflection that I think are incredibly important. After the Charlottesville situation, he and I were on very different pages as it relates to the provocative history of race in this country. He invited me to the oval office to have a conversation about it. One of the things that came out of that conversation was legislation that I was pushing. It was investing in opportunity to focus on distressed communities. President Trump said yes, let's find a way to work for those folks who are stuck, who lack the same opportunities that he had and that I have had. That really has had a major impact and I think we'll have a ripple effect throughout this country for years to come.

Number two, African-American unemployment has not seen this level, 6.9 percent, in probably two decades, if I'm right, maybe three decades. So, the economic policies of this administration have led us to a level of prosperity that we cannot -- we would not have imagined two years ago. So, the truth of the matter is, the president had said some things that I totally disagree with on a racial perspective, but he's also done some things from a policy perspective that is undeniably in the best interest of this country long term, and I think a good economy makes a lot of things possible.

MACCALLUM: Thank you so much, gentlemen. Congratulations on the book. I look forward to reading the rest of it, and good to have you both here. Don't be strangers, come back anytime. Take care.

SCOTT: Absolutely.

GOWDY: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: So, Roseanne Barr is shaking things up with some huge numbers with the new version of her old TV show. What it might reveal about what's really going on out there in America.


ROSEANNE BARR, ACTRESS: Aunt Jackie thinks every girl should grow up and be president, even if there are a liar, liar, pants suit on fire.



MACCALLUM: Plus, Tom Friedman says President Obama, this is his theory, and Bush, are just waiting in the wings to sweep in and fix the damage from the Trump administration. We're going to talk to former Trump campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, about that and other stuff right after this on The Story.


MACCALLUM: So, a New York Times columnist, well known one, now calling on former President's Obama and Bush to unite in order to save the country from a constitutional crisis that he believe is coming from the Mueller probe. Take a look.


THOMAS FRIEDMAN, NEW YORK TIMES COLUMNIST: Barack Obama and George W. Bush have both being staying out of the political fray despite all the attacks on them from Trump, it's because they understand they're going to have to come together on the face of this constitutional crisis that's in our future and stand up for the constitution. It's going to have to be done in a bipartisan way by two ex-presidents. I think they still have a lot of credibility, and my guess is they're saving their powder for that.


MACCALLUM: Very interesting. Corey Lewandowski served as President Trump's campaign manager and is the author of, Let Trump Be Trump. Corey, good evening to you, good to have you here tonight. You know, what is it you think in the Trump presidency -- I mean, obviously, this is a very unique presidency. This president acts and behaves in a way that, you know, other presidents simply have not. It's just not the way he operates. But he has definitely inspired this sort of reaction I thought we're getting from Tom Friedman that these two former presidents are going to come out of the woodwork and save the country. What you make of it?

COREY LEWANDOWSKI, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIG MANAGER: You know Tom is another one of these geniuses who predicted Trump would never run on Election Day. Predicted that Hillary Clinton, in the New York Times, said Hillary Clinton was going to get 340 electoral votes, and Donald Trump was on his way to the largest defeat in modern election history. So, look, what is a constitutional crisis? The lowest unemployment rate between Hispanics and African-Americans ever recorded? A stock market that continues to go up? A president who's defending our borders? Cutting taxes for Americans and businesses across the country? What is the constitutional crisis? Putting America first? The constitutional crisis is that we're not globalists anymore. That we're unapologetic to be Americans. That this president has said we're not here to be the policeman of the rest of the world, that we're going to protect our own people first. If that's a constitutional crisis that Friedman thinks is in front of us, then he's absolutely right. This president is here to protect Americans, sometimes maybe he should think about more often.

MACCALLUM: Yeah. I mean, he goes on to say, you know, I feel more stronger than ever, and everything that's happened in the last six weeks is a real threat to our democracy. He's sitting in the Oval Office. We have a president who is a disturbed person that's kind of tweeting. He's overthrowing of cabinet secretaries is not normal behavior. You say let Trump be Trump, right? It definitely rankles a lot of people. It's a process, you know, what happened with Rex Tillerson, and now, perhaps, Scott Pruitt who appears to be and a somewhat tenuous position. People are uncomfortable. People like him for sure with the way he does this.

LEWANDOWSKI: Well, they are. But you have to remember, you know, in August or September of last year where Donald Trump, the president, said, look, if North Korea attacked us, they will be met with fire and fury like the world has ever seen, and now we see that they have agreed to halt their nuclear testing capabilities until a sit-down happens, because this president has put a strangle hold on North Korea with the help of the Russians and the Chinese, something that for 30 years no president has done. Does Tom Friedman disagree with relocating the embassy in Israel? Is that the constitutional crisis that he's opposed to?

You know, these guys love the hyperbole of attacking this president. The bottom line is this, this president, like every president, has the right to have the cabinet that he wants surrounding him, so that they can make decisions. And this president, more than any other, loves to have different individuals give them their opinion, and then he makes the final decision. Now, maybe it's not the decision that 30 years of government in Washington, D.C. dogma has been entitled to. But I can tell you this, we know, unequivocally, if Hillary Clinton would have been elected, we would not have a potentially denuclearized North Korea, we wouldn't have a leader that has cut taxes for the American people, unemployment rates for African-Americans and Hispanics would not be at historic lows. What is Tom so opposed to of helping the American people?

MACCALLUM: I don't know. We'll ask him. Maybe he'll answer your question if he's listening. How about this? So, President Trump, basically, is butting heads over and over again against the state of California. There's already 27 lawsuits from California against the Trump administration. Now, there's the possibility that there may be a new one. The attorney general there, Xavier Becerra, saying this about the EPA's new move to roll back the laws for greenhouse gas omission with relation to the auto industry, he said this, the Trump administration assault on clear car standards with our abilities to protect our children's health, tackle climate change, and save hard working American's money. We're ready to file suit if needed to protect these critical standards, and despite the administrations war on our environment. So, this is just the latest front between the Trump White House and California.

LEWANDOWSKI: Well, look, California, as you know, the only thing that is not protecting American citizens in California, a sanctuary cities, because we've seen time and time again they continue to get refuge to individuals who come to this country illegally, kill Americans, and then has no accountability for it. So, you know, this president has been very clear. He's going to release the burden on American individuals and corporate America from an overzealous government bureaucracy, and the EPA has been one of the worst proprieties of that problem. And, look, you know what California loves? They love to have it both ways. They love to attack the president, but when there's a natural disaster, when there's a tragedy, when something terrible happens, they call the federal government and they asks for their help and support. And every cycle time, this president has responded because it's the right thing to do. But, look, you know, this is a political football that the attorney general wants to use. What he should spend time on is protecting the American citizens from the illegal aliens that are coming in and killing them in his home state.

MACCALLUM: Corey Lewandowski, thank you. Good to see you, Corey.

LEWANDOWSKI: My pleasure, thank you.

MACCALLUM: So, actor turned activist, Rob Reiner, has a message to the millions of Americans who have been tuning in to watch Roseanne. He says it's all a big lie.


ROB REINER, ACTOR: I've got a feeling they're going to try to rain Roseanne in outside the show, because they're going to run into some very, very severe problems if you see any of those, you know, tweets that she's putting out outside the show.


MACCALLUM: The Democrat, Mark Penn, says underestimating her fans could cost his party the midterms, when we come back.


MACCALLUM: So, Roseanne returns to TV tonight. The reboot of the '90s sitcom has become a huge hit in its debut last week. Rake in over 25 million viewers. Those are enormous numbers for sitcoms that are very challenged by all different options that people have to watch these days. It has shocked critics. Barr's praise of President Trump in this show is also huge focus of the attention it's getting. But my next guest is not surprised that this reboot is resonating in America, and it could possibly signal some of what we might see that could also surprise people in the 2018 midterms. Mark Penn writing, quote, Roseanne is bringing conservative American women out of the closet. Here now, Mark Penn, presidential pollster and advisor to Bill and Hillary Clinton, and author of the new book, 'Microtrends Squared,' the new small forces driving the big disruption today. Mark, good to have you here.


MACCALLUM: So, why -- where do you get this idea that there are classic conservatives, 15 million you say?

PENN: Well, I've been observing for a while that very few people realize that 53 percent of nonminority women voted for President Trump. And that - - when we look at polls, there's about 5 percent or 15 million that I call classic conservatives and 'Microtrends Squared,' peoples whose views are more conservative than they feel free to admit, either with their family or at work. In fact, astounding numbers of people now, 40 to 60 percent are afraid to give their political views at home or at work.

MACCALLUM: Yeah. That's sad. We ought to live in a world where you can at least talk about how you feel about something without, you know, people jumping all over you on either side. Watch this from Rob Reiner, because he has very incensed and fired up at the success of this new TV show. Watch this.


ROB REINER, ACTOR: It goes back to the original sin of this country, which is slavery. And we are fighting this last battle of the civil war, and those people who are the alt-right, the white supremacists, are hanging on for dear life and they're using these propaganda tools, which are not just, you know, like I say, lunatic fringe. They're now invading us and you guys in the mainstream media seeking the truth, are really fighting an uphill battle. This is the -- this is a real battle right here for the soul of democracy.


MACCALLUM: Wow. That's, in part, his reaction to the Roseanne show. What do you think about that, Mark?

PENN: Well, I always believe that you have to respect all American voters. And this is the classic thing that we've seen more where the people who vote against you are demeaned, called the lunatic fringe. Look, over 60 million voters are not a lunatic fringe. There are more conservatives in this country that there are liberals. It's time to recognize both sides exist and let's solve our differences. This is no way to do it with this kind of name calling.

MACCALLUM: Let's listen to one more, because he says that Roseanne is the personification of Donald Trump. Watch this.


REINER: I think it can help him because you have the star of the show, essentially, outside the show, Trumpeting all of the things that Donald Trump stands for. When you take the main character and that person is of personification of Trump's point of view, then that puts that idea forward. Now, 18 million people, that's a lot of people.


MACCALLUM: I mean, I watched the first episode and there's a lot of different, you know, cultural issues that families are dealing with. There's, you know, issues of how Roseanne's grandson is dressing at school. That he's dressing, kind of, like a little girl instead of a little boy. And all sort of things that people talk about that affect American families in this show. So, I think he's selling it a little-bit short in terms of what's included in it. But, you know, I think it liberates people to a certain extent to say, you know, that's like the debate we have at my house or your house, you know. What do you think the impact is when people go to the polls in the midterms? I mean, do you think that this translates that far out?

PENN: Look, I think it's a little far to say this is going to definitely translate into vote. I think that this is a cultural outlet that they've been 50 shows that are anti-Trump. The reason this got 25 million viewers is because there are 50 million closet conservatives. There are a lot of people say, hey, I want to have a cultural connection to what I believe in, and that's incredibly important. And I also think people are sick and tired of being demeaned for their political views, so they like to see someone who really stands up for what she believes, and whose beliefs are close to theirs. And I think that is very good for democracy, very good for environment, regardless of whether you're a Democrat or Republican. This is better and this lets people express their real views. That's what the first amendment is about.

MACCALLUM: We're talking about the book, 'Unified' before, and there's so much division. And if this works as a vehicle to get people talking, I think it's a good thing. Mark, thank you so much -- go ahead.

PENN: Thank you. And, 'Microtrends Squared,' unfortunately says, we have become far too divided as a society and too many niches. And I hope we can recognize those other niches and come together better.

MACCALLUM: That's very true. Good having you on as always. Thanks, Mark.

PENN: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: Coming up next on the eve of a somber anniversary, Martin Luther King Jr.'s final speech and his powerful words that still resonate today. It's our quote of the night, next.


MACCALLUM: Exactly 50 years ago today, the Reverend Martin Luther King Jr. delivered what would become his final speech to a congregation at the Mason Temple Church in Memphis. His words spoken on the eve of his assassination are the quote of the night. He said, like anybody, I like to live a long life. Longevity has its place. But I'm not concerned about that now. I just want to do God's will. And he's allowed me to go up to mountain and I looked over and I've seen the Promised Land. I may not get there with you, but I want you to know, tonight, that, we, as a people, we'll get to the Promised Land, words of Martin Luther King Jr. That is our story for tonight. We'll see you right back here tomorrow night, thought, at 7 o'clock. Hope you'll join us. Tucker Carlson is up next.

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