Giuliani says unrest, protests a sign of lack of leadership

This is a rush transcript from "Hannity," September 21, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

SEAN HANNITY, HOST: And this is a Fox News Alert. Angry protests turn deadly in Charlotte, North Carolina. Our town hall, by the way, with Donald Trump will air tomorrow night.

One person tonight has been shot and killed during the clashes between the protesters and the police. It was a civilian-on-civilian violence after several gunshots rang out in the middle of all this chaos. Now, police say the victim was, in fact, shot and killed by another civilian, the second night of violent unrest stemming from the shooting of a 43-year-old black man who police say was armed and disobeying orders. The victim's family is claiming that he was only holding a book.

Police held a press conference earlier today and they tried to make the facts of the investigation open to the public. And despite all of this, we are seeing this intense unrest tonight after 16 officers were injured last night.

On the ground tonight in Charlotte is our own Steve Harrigan. Steve, I've been watching. You've got tear gas. You got rubber bullets, and you said now mace is being used as the police now try and hold that line.

STEVE HARRIGAN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Sean. You can see this line of police here right behind me, about 100 strong. They've been out here for more than an hour. Right now, they've pushed the crowd back after a heavy use of tear gas, and mace, as well.

They're being cursed at from the sidewalk by people. They've had bottles hurled at them and fireworks shot at them. At least seven officers have been injured. We don't know about the severity. And throughout this demonstration, which has lasted more than an hour-and-half, at least one young man, African-American man, one of the a protesters was killed.

The city of Charlotte is saying there was civilian-on-civilian shooting. That doesn't mean much to these protesters, who seem convinced that it was yet another police shooting. So really, we're seeing again here in this case in Charlotte two different versions of what happened, an official version and a version believed by many of the protesters. When that shot rang out, we just saw them run down this hill right here, saying, They shot another one. The police shot another one.

So really, some white hot anger here on the street. The people we've talked to, sometimes we (ph) try and grab the microphone out of your hands, just furious and not believing that we're going to give them a fair shake to say what they want to say. Police...


HANNITY: What are they saying there, Steve?

HARRIGAN: We've been given an order to disperse. We're going to obey that order to avoid arrest, and we're going to see what happens to the people who refuse that order. We've heard that order several times, and it has failed several times.

The police have pushed forward with tear gas. Over the course of 90 minutes, they've have been able to move just about a hundred yards. So they have not had great success against the protesters so far, who despite the fact that one man has been killed, one man injured, keep re-gathering after each round of tear gas.

So we're going to see if this group of -- not a very large group of police for the violence that we've seen here is going to be able to take control of the street and begin to make arrests, Sean.

HANNITY: Steve, what is that guy in blue screaming at you?

HARRIGAN: He's swearing at the police.


HARRIGAN: He's cursing them out. We've seen them throw bottles of beer at the police. And now we're seeing the first arrests of a few people who remain out here. We're going to keep backing up because they've included media, as well, in that -- and...

HANNITY: Yes. There's a conflict now breaking out there.


HARRIGAN: ... looting, as well, here, some looting of the hotel and some looting of a store here off to my left. Right now, the street is empty. We've seen this come and go, build and empty.

We can take a look here at this souvenir stand. You can see this is one of the casualties, some vehicles also smashed and looted, as well. We actually saw protesters shouting at some of the people who ere looting here, calling them idiots for ruining what they were trying to do here with the protests.

But obviously, a number of different groups among these 800 protesters. It began around 7:00 o'clock, and we saw a lot of families, mothers, fathers, young children out for the march, out to see what was going on, to take part in perhaps a historical event.

And like it did last night, it turned ugly again tonight. It's turned into a pitched battle and a battle that the police have not been able to gain control of as of yet. For the past 90 minutes, they've gone back and forth.

HANNITY: Well -- and Steve, just to be clear, you say we had 16 officers injured last night. Thankfully, not seriously. You're saying reports of at least seven injured tonight, and tear gas, as I saw you reporting earlier tonight. You could feel it in the back of your throat, rubber bullets, and you said mace was being fired at the crowd, as well, tonight.

HARRIGAN: That's right, a whole string of non-lethal force we've seen used. We've seen tear gas on multiple occasions. We've seen mace come out in a spray. We've seen flash-bang grenades really to stun the crowd, a large flash and loud explosion. Now the police are using their batons and beating on their shields and marching down the street.

Right now, just a few protesters in front of them, handful of six or 10 hard-core. The crowd has gone anywhere from a dozen to about 800 at its peak. And now just the hard core remain, as the police right now are unopposed, but that could change when the crowd re-gathers, as we've seen time and time again, Sean.

HANNITY: Let me go to the two different versions, Steve, that have emerged in this particular case. Very starkly different versions have emerged. Police very adamant and saying that Scott -- Keith Lamont Scott disregarded repeated demands to drop his gun. A gun was found at the scene. Also, a holster apparently was on his ankle.

Neighborhood residents are saying he was holding a book, not a weapon, as he waited for his son to get off a school bus. The police chief was adamant today in saying that the evidence would prove this. But then there's the issue of why, in fact, they didn't release a video that apparently they have available. They're saying it's because it's an ongoing investigation?

HARRIGAN: You're right, they haven't released that video yet because of the investigation. And you're right also to point out that these two versions of what happened could not be any more different.

On the one, it's a portrayal of a loving father, reading in his car, waiting for his son at the bus stop. On the other, it's a multiple convicted felon with a gun threatening police, an imminent threat to their lives. So really, two extreme versions.

And we're seeing the different versions play out here again tonight. On the one hand, protesters saying the police shot another young black man here. On the other hand, the city's saying it was civilian-on-civilian doing the shooting.

So two different versions, but I can tell you it's clear from being in this crowd that the protesters do not believe the official version. They do not believe what the city of Charlotte is saying. They do not believe what the mainstream media is saying. They believe that the police shot another man, and we're going to see how that plays out in the days ahead, Sean.

HANNITY: All right, Steve Harrigan, stay right there. We'll be checking in with you throughout the hour and also any people that you'll be interviewing there.

Joining us now is former speaker of the House -- Newt Gingrich is with us. Mr. Speaker, unfortunately, sadly, we have seen this time and time again now in Ferguson, in Baltimore, and it keeps happening. And you've got these two very distinct versions of what happened here, and nobody seems to want to wait for a full, complete investigation.

We've had issues involving even the president with the Cambridge police, in the Trayvon Martin case, and in what happened in Ferguson, Missouri, rushing to judgment. The police -- I'm sorry, the president and Hillary Clinton have embraced Black Lives Matter, Black Lives Matter activists on tape saying, What do we want, dead cops. When do we want it, now. Pigs in a blanket, fry it like bacon. Are they contributing to this atmosphere that everybody rushes to judgment against the police before facts are in?

NEWT GINGRICH, FMR. HOUSE SPEAKER, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, immunity, it's an objective fact that we are in the last months of an eight-year presidency of the first African-American president in American history, that we've had eight straight years of an African-American attorney general, and that their rhetoric and their approach and their attitude has made these things worse, not better. I mean, that's an objective fact.

But I think there are two really big truths here that are bigger than any one city or any one incident. One is that no healthy society can tolerate this kind of demonstration and violence when it involves looting, when it involves breaking the law. And so you have to ultimately apply whatever level of police power is necessary, including in some cases the National Guard, in order to ensure that you don't tolerate that kind of thing.

But there's a second half, and this is the deeper part of the anger that you see with some of the young people that are out there. No healthy society can trap hundreds of thousands, maybe several million people, in neighborhoods where the schools don't work, there are no jobs, there is no public safety, there is no sense of hope, where despair is the norm and where people feel totally abandoned. And I think that's big part of what you're seeing. You see it again and again across the country.

It's one reason that I'm very encouraged that Donald Trump has got the courage to go into neighborhoods that people normally don't get somebody on the Republican side, and say to them, Look, we've got to try something new and something different.

And I think that's big part of this. The people you're watching who are yelling and who are angry, they're angry for deep reasons that don't have anything to do with any particular shooting.

They feel that they have no future. They feel that they have no opportunity. They feel that they've been neglected. And as I said, after eight years of the first African-American president, as one of them said, they feel powerless and voiceless. Now, I mean, what a tragic moment in that context.

HANNITY: You know, Mr. Speaker, you're talking about the real root cause of why there is so much anger out there in the country. I often give statistics. Earlier today, I spent an hour with Donald Trump in a town hall in a predominantly African-American church, part of the continued outreach that you referred to.

And at the start of the program, which we hope we can air tomorrow night, I gave out a lot of statistics about what has happened in the last eight years -- eight years, particularly the disproportionate impact on the black community, a 58 percent increase in the number of African-Americans on food stamps, a 20 percent jump in the number of African-Americans who are no longer in the workforce. The African-American home ownership rate is down. It's more than 20 percent lower than the national average. African-American unemployment, 8.1 percent. The national average is 4.9. The wage gap between African-Americans and white workers is the worst in nearly 40 years. Median household income for African-Americans is $20,000 less than the national average. The average -- the African-American poverty rate is 24.1 percent, 10 percent higher than the national average.

You know, then we look at, you know, crime problems. You know, there have been this year alone in the city of Chicago, Obama's hometown, 3,100 people have been shot. And since Obama's been president, 3,660 people have been murdered, the vast majority African-American.

And I look at these statistics -- we don't -- I guarantee you, most of our audience doesn't know the name of one single person of the 3,660. But they know about Trayvon Martin and they know about Ferguson and they know about Freddie Gray and they know about the Cambridge police.

Why isn't the president -- you know, why do we not pay attention to an epidemic when the statistics also show that 99.9 percent of cops do not treat people this way?

GINGRICH: Well, look, I mean, here's the tragic secret of what's gone wrong with inner-city African-American life, and for that matter, inner-city Latino life in this country. And that is the people who supposedly cared the most about them, the liberal politicians who got elected, many of them from their own ethnic background, are basically owned by institutions that don't work.

So you go into a place like Detroit, where nine percent of the students are learning. You go into Baltimore, where 13 percent of 8th graders are able to actually pass a math test. And the 9 percent, by the way, is a reference to literacy I think in the 3rd grade.

But you go around place after place. If you tried to actually go in there and create real improvement, you run head-on into the teachers union, which is against you. If you go in and you try to create the kind of policing that Rudy Giuliani and Chief Bratton used, which brought down the murder rate by 85 percent, you run into liberals who would rather see people killed than have the kind of aggressive policing...

HANNITY: You're talking about stop and frisk.

GINGRICH: ... that made New York safe. That's a big part of it.

HANNITY: And Donald Trump -- well, but I mean, the murder rate went in New York City, and I lived here as it happened, from about 2,500 a year to below 500 a year. And a lot of the people that -- whose lives were saved because of policing in neighborhoods that needed it the most were minority Americans.

And you're right, there was a lot of criticism. Rudy took a lot of heat, was called racist day in and day out by local newspapers and the liberal media. But lives were saved.

GINGRICH: So what you have to really recognize is I think two things. First -- and I think this is -- conservatives find this difficult to really deal with. It is harder to be black in America. Slavery was real. In fact, it's a terrific thing that the Smithsonian is opening this new museum of African-American history because I hope it'll bring home to a lot of Americans -- slavery was real and terrible. Segregation was real and terrible.

Discrimination still exists. So if you're that one young black lady we saw in the last hour who was so angry, could barely articulate because she was so emotional and so fed up, you have to understand that her experience of life is different.

Now, the other side of that is, how are we going to make that -- turn that corner so her life could be dramatically better? And that's going to require real willingness to go into these communities and have very profound changes.

HANNITY: We have two very distinct different stories that have emerged here, and that is the community believes one thing, that this man was carrying a book. The police are saying, No, that's not what happened here. And we're talking about Keith Lamont Scott. And the police are saying, No, he had a gun, yes, he had on his ankle a holster. So you have two very different stories.

Now, I want to go back. If we look at these prior incidences -- and I don't care if it's the Cambridge police or Trayvon Martin or Ferguson -- you know, it was "Hands up, don't shoot" in Ferguson, but then it was black eyewitnesses that testified that it was Michael Brown after he robbed a store fighting a police officer, Darren Wilson, for his gun, then charged at the officer. And because of the testimony of black eyewitnesses, in fact, he was exonerated. He was not charged.

In the case of Freddie Gray, everybody had an expectation after listening to the local prosecutor and DA that there was going to be guilty verdicts in those cases. All six officers were found innocent. There was an expectation that George Zimmerman would be found guilty. But you had an eyewitness that -- that placed Trayvon Martin was placed on top of George Zimmerman, who we heard screaming for his life, and was grounding and pounding his head into the cement, into concrete.

So my question is, the leaders -- the president in this case, or Hillary Clinton, both of whom have embraced Black Lives Matter, a group that has said, What do we want, dead cops, when do we want it, now -- what responsibility do they bear in terms of these high-profile incidents, all while ignoring the violence and the statistics, the 3,660 dead, over 75 percent black Americans in Chicago, since he's been president.

GINGRICH: Well, look, I mean, obviously, they bear a substantial responsibility for setting a tone. I mean, things are worse today. People are more angry today. They are more likely to disbelieve the police today. That's a large part of Barack Obama's contribution.

In Hillary's case, all the way back to when she was a student at Yale, she was the associate editor of a radical newspaper which described police as pigs. She left Yale to go to the West Coast to work with a law firm which specialized in defending the Black Panthers. She recently, as recently as today, came out with one more anti-police statement. So in that sense, they deserve a great deal of responsibility.

But let me remind you of something, Sean, that may make you a little uncomfortable. You and I don't believe John Kerry about virtually anything. We don't believe the president's White House about virtually anything.

In a way, the collapse of belief in American institutions isn't just inner city blacks, it is that the establishment has lied so much on so many different topics...

HANNITY: That's true.

GINGRICH: ... and the news media has lied so much on so many different topics that reestablishing a sense of trust, rebuilding a belief that when the government talks, it's telling you the truth -- this is going to be a big mountain for Donald Trump to climb because we start with this notion that white conservatives don't believe A, B and C, and black inner city folks don't believe D, E and F.

And so the whole system is shaky right now in a way that's I think very dangerous...


HANNITY: ... really well said. And polls bear that out about trust in the media. Look at the exit polls in every primary -- 65 percent of Republicans feel betrayed by their party.

But Mr. Speaker, stay right there. I want to get back to that, and we'll get back to you in just a moment.

But first, Jonathan Serrie has some breaking news. He's on the ground. He's in Charlotte right now -- Jonathan.

JONATHAN SERRIE, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Sean. Police wanted to correct the record. Earlier this evening, they had reported that there had been a shooting apparently involving a civilian on another civilian, reporting that one person had died in that shooting. They're now saying that the victim is still alive but on life support, hanging on by a thread. So they wanted to get that information out, correcting the record.

Again, this was not -- the shooting that happened tonight out here at the protest did not involve a police officer. Apparently, it was civilian-on-civilian violence.

And because the protests here are turning violent, not just protesters turning on each other in the case of this shooting, apparently, but also turning on police officers, and so about two blocks from where I'm standing, there's a line of officers in riot gear. They are trying to clear people out of the area.

The police chief says that authorities here have been very patient and the protests started out peaceful, but then once they got violent, his main concern now is protecting everyone regardless of what side of the story they're on, what side of the story they believe. His responsibility is to all of the citizens and visitors here in Charlotte. And so authorities are trying to get people out of this area, get the protesters out and prevent any more violence.

Now, while there is this report of this very serious injured civilian-on-civilian case involving a shooting, they say that no officers, no police officers have been injured tonight, and that's a big difference from yesterday when at least 16 officers suffered injuries during protests turned violent, Sean.

HANNITY: All right, well, that's really important because we had reports earlier that seven officers with were injured tonight, 16 last night. And also, we had -- the police chief was actually on the air in the last hour with Megyn, and he had confirmed that this person was civilian-on-civilian violence. That part of the story remains the same. But the only thing that has changed -- he did not die. He is, in fact, on life support and in our prayers, of course.

Thank you so much, Jonathan Serrie.

We go back to Steve Harrigan, who's also on the ground and given us an update. We've got two different shots there. It looks like police -- I don't know if it's an outreach. They actually seem to be smiling and somewhat talking to some of the people there. You were calling them the stragglers earlier, Steve.

Where are you now?

HARRIGAN: That's right. As the police begin to move forward and pound their batons against those riot shield again, with their plexiglass helmets, they're moving forward slowly and steadily to try and take control of the street. We've seen really a pitched battle for the last two hours between demonstrators and police, and now with this march and with several volleys of tear gas, the police largely scattered the protesters.

If we look about 300 or 400 yards down the road, though, there's still about 200, 300 protesters there. So the test is going to be when these two sides meet again. Over and over again, we've seen the protesters rally, hurl bottles at police and then retreat under the threat of tear gas. So the police are marching forward, trying to take control of downtown Charlotte, and we're going to see in just a few minutes whether the protesters let that happen or not, Sean.

HANNITY: I see the distance. I see the police now moving in. And I know you've spoken with some of the protesters earlier. You're now moving in their direction, moving down towards them.

Are any of them expressing any -- I mean, is there just total doubt of everything that the police said? I mean, I know they haven't released the video. An investigation is ongoing. I understand all of that. But they either found a gun or they didn't find a gun. They either found a book or they didn't find a book. It seems -- it seems pretty cut and dried whichever way this story is going to break.

The police say it was a gun. They say they had a holster, and there was a picture of it. And the community is saying, No, it was a book and he wasn't doing a thing.

So I would think that there would be some clarification to get that information out to the public. That hasn't happened.

HARRIGAN: No, it hasn't happened. And really, the focus here now is on more immediate things, like who shot the young man here who's on life support clinging to life? Was it a police officer, as many of the protesters say, or was it civilian-on-civilian shooting, as the city of Charlotte says. So really, a whole 'nother case has got their attention.

And really, it's about reasoned debate right here on the street. It's about emotion. You have people who are really in a fury and who are throwing things at the police officers of their city. We had at least six police officers wounded again tonight. So it's an angry fight right now. Right now, it's...

HANNITY: And you said...

HARRIGAN: ... quiet, but we could see a standoff over the next hour as these two sides get closer together again.

HANNITY: And you're saying that -- from what I can see -- if we can pan your camera over to the other side, we got the police. We got our shot on the police right now. If they can now turn the other direction towards the crowd because what you're saying is that they sort of have re-gathered and there are now about 300 of them, where earlier, you said it was reduced to a dozen, and they keep regrouping.

So how many people would you -- your estimate of how many people are now standing on the other side of the police with this huge gap between them? If you can show us the crowd of protesters?

HARRIGAN: Sure. I'll ask Chris Bonnies (ph) to turn around and show you some of those protesters. You can see a lot of them have their shirts off, or other things wrapped around their noses or mouth to try and protect them from the tear gas. And it looks very small. This is a very fluid situation, where the numbers come and go. As it's gotten later, the crowd has gotten smaller, I'd say right about now, about 80 protesters. At its height, we saw about 800.

HANNITY: Yes. OK. Thanks so much for being with us, Steve Harrigan on the ground. We'll get back to you throughout the hour tonight.

Joining us now on the phone, watching all of this, former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani. M. Mayor, thanks for being us.


HANNITY: You did it -- we did a town hall today in Cleveland...


HANNITY: ... and -- and -- we did it with Donald Trump. And one of the things that came up was the whole issue of how to handle crime in big cities. We now have seen this in Ferguson. We have seen this in Baltimore. We have seen this elsewhere around the country, and I guess...

GIULIANI: Breaks my heart.

HANNITY: It breaks my heart, too, because it's so unnecessary.

GIULIANI: To see this breaks my heart and it makes me feel like my eight years of work as mayor of New York City went for naught. I took over a city that had two major riots much like this in the four years before I was mayor. And I had eight years without riots because I would not permit a riot. I had three major shootings. One was a justified shooting. One was an ambiguous shooting. And one was a totally unjustified shooting, and the police officer is sitting in jail for 25 years.

And this comes from a lack of leadership. This comes from the fact that the African-American community has been fed a false narrative from the very top, including the president of the United States, two attorneys general, the secretary of state, who found the police officers in Baltimore guilty after they were found not guilty by an African-American judge, I may add, and never apologized for it.

So they are being fed a group of lies. And you know, the truth is the only thing that will set you free, not a series of lies. And in a situation like this. The people have to have confidence enough in their leadership, even if they don't like them, even if they disrespect them, they have to have enough confidence in them to believe that there will be a fair and just adjudication (INAUDIBLE)

HANNITY: Mr. Mayor, there's conflicting stories. Now, either this individual had, in fact -- Keith Lamont Scott had a gun, had holster, where there's picture of as the police are saying, or he was holding a book, which the police say there was no book. So there doesn't seem to be any gray area here. It was either one or the other.

GIULIANI: It is not -- it's either one or the other. And what the president of the United States -- I will say what Governor McCrory and the mayor in that city should be saying to people is, Wait. Let us investigate this. If you don't like the result, you can protest.

But I've got to tell you one thing, you don't get to throw rocks. You don't get to shoot. You don't get to loot. None of that happens under any circumstances.

HANNITY: How would you be handling this differently?

GIULIANI: Even if it's an unjustified shooting, you do not get to destroy the property of some other African-American man who has -- or woman who has a business in that area. This is absurd, what we have happen here. We have gone back eight to ten years in our race relationships because of what Barack Obama and Eric Holder and a present attorney general and Hillary Clinton have done, which is jump immediately on these incidents and try to politicize them.

And if, in fact, this man walked out of the car with a gun, of course the police officer's going to shoot him. You would shoot him. You're not going to wait until the man pulls his gun up and shoots you. It might be too late. If the man didn't have a gun, then the police officer belongs in jail.

HANNITY: It's really that -- it's really that cut and dried. What would you -- look, we've watched now two nights a row here. And now can you see that the crowd is growing and getting a little bigger once again. Police have used tear gas, rubber bullets, mace and flash-bang grenades.

And my question to you is, if this was your city and you saw this happen last night, what would you be doing differently?

GIULIANI: It wouldn't happen in my city. I -- I...

HANNITY: How would it not happen?

GIULIANI: I set the rules down on day one. I mean, I gave a speech and a talk and I met with leaders and I said, You get to protest all you want, but you take my streets, I arrest you. You throw a rock, I put you in jail. You shoot a gun, we're going to shoot back.

I have 41,000 police, I don't know how many you have, but you're not going to riot in my city. Cities...

HANNITY: And it didn't happen.

GIULIANI: In American civilized society, there's no place for rioting. We have a criminal justice system. In Baltimore, Sean, the three police officers that were acquitted were acquitted by extraordinarily courageous African-American judge.

HANNITY: All six of them now have been -- their charges are dropped.

GIULIANI: Now, the shooting I had that was the most ambiguous, the police officers were acquitted by a jury, including four African-American.


GIULIANI: So we have to -- we have to educate people to understand that our criminal justice system is a fair system. And the fact that there may be more blacks in certain communities than white is merely a function of the fact that right now, as we're speaking here tonight, two or three blacks will be shot in Chicago. And nobody will pay attention to this.

HANNITY: And nobody will talk about it.

GIULIANI: The average is (INAUDIBLE)

HANNITY: Since Obama has been president...


GIULIANI: ... two every night, and none of these people protesting give a damn about those black lives! I had to...

HANNITY: well, the -- yes.

GIULIANI: I had to care about those black lives, and I saved somewhere between 7,000 and 8,000 of them. There's no mayor in the history of New York City that's saved more black lives than I did because I cared about the ones they don't pay attention to.

HANNITY: Over 3,000 citizens of Chicago shot this year. And since Obama's been president --

GIULIANI: No protesting in Chicago, no protesting in Chicago about the terrible schools in Chicago, about the jobs in Chicago, about the lack of opportunity in Chicago, about the fact that Chicago has been run by Democratic rule for 50 years that has deteriorated the state. We can substitute Detroit for that. We can substitute any other city you want for that.

You don't provide good schools because you're afraid to stand up for the teacher's union and then have you children who are poorly educated. You don't provide jobs because you drive jobs out of your city because there is so much crime. You don't provide jobs for your people. And then they become frustrated. They become angry. And they look to scapegoat.

Now, the African-American politicians, most of them, and the agitators don't want to say that because the teacher's union owns them.

HANNITY: There's something, though, Mr. Mayor, very profound here we have to address and that is a president that has been so quick to rush to judgment in cases where he has been proven wrong. In Cambridge, in Ferguson, in Baltimore, in Florida, Trayvon Martin. Now -- and he doesn't even talk about 3,660 -- am I looking that right? Is that a fire? It looks like there's a fire. Mr. Mayor, hold on one second if I can.


HANNITY: Hold on one second. Let me go to Steve Harrigan. He's down on the ground. Maybe he can give us some insight. There is definitely a fire there looking out. Steve, I understand you're actually with the protesters. Tell us what is going on?

STEVE HARRIGAN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Sean, you can see the police about 50 yards in front of with us riot shields. They are saying anyone who is still here is going to get arrested. I want to know why you're still here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're staying here because the fact is that police did do not understand yet to the day that people, they have to stand up for what they believe in. You guys are out here, media, press, and everyone else is out here because you believe in a story. We believe in the fact that there is unjust. We believe in the fact that this is wrong.

We also believe they are about to run up on us and so do some danger. So therefore I will tell you this -- I've done no wrong. I will not do no wrong. And the thing I will stand for is justice among our people, that means black, brown, white, of what it is, showing North Carolina has been built on minorities and everyone else. Please understand that.

HARRIGAN: Let me ask you what happened up there. Let me ask you one thing that happened up there. One young man shot very close to death up there. Do you know what happened? Do you know who is responsible for it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mecklenburg County is the reason why, because no one else had guns, dude. None of us have guns. The largest weapon we have is a camera phone. And that's the largest weapon that we have is a camera phone and knowledge.

HANNITY: Steve, let me ask this guy a question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's the biggest weapon you could probably ever have. And 704, Charlotte, North Carolina, and surrounding has been built on minorities, whether it's banking, whether it's money or anything else. And if we work to take away the money and start putting it within our own companies, within our own groups, there would be a problem. And that whole number two, number three would drop to 10.

HARRIGAN: Let me ask you, when the police do fire tear gas, what actions are you going to take? We have seen people throw bottles at police, throw rocks back. What's going to happen when tear gas is fired?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The bad part is that they've thrown tear gas. You know what else they've thrown? They've thrown bullets. They've also thrown hatred. They've also thrown racism. They've thrown --

HARRIGAN: Go ahead, Sean.

HANNITY: Steve, I want you to ask this guy a question because I'm paying very close attention to everything that he is saying. The police have a different version. Now, either this man is right and this man was carrying a book, or the police are right and the man was carrying a gun. So the question is, why can't he wait until all of the evidence is presented before he rushes to judgment?

HARRIGAN: Now, the original spark that set this off, the shooting of the man, do you know why that happened, why the police that shot the man? What is your version of events?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From what I understand they felt a threat by this young man. And I say young man because he is only 43, 45 years young. He was a young man. He had a family. He had kids.

HARRIGAN: Did he have a gun or did he have a book? Which version is true?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand he had both. It seems like, because the way that you guys cross it up, he has a gun. And now we are dealing with, the problem -- this is what happens when you bully.

HANNITY: Steve, the question is, why is he rushing to judgment before we know the facts in the case? The police said he had a gun and the residents say he had a book. Why do people rush to judgment? Why can't they wait for all the evidence?

HARRIGAN: There's not a lot of patience here, Sean. This man moved back into the crowd. This police line has moved forward, threatening arrest and threatening more tear gas. A lot of people have run backwards. So the police now have moved forward about 600 yards over the course of an hour as they slowly try to regain control here.

HANNITY: Steve, let me ask you this. You know, a lot of these incidents we've seen that professional agitators, people bussed in from outside communities and know nothing about the community. Have you gotten any indication in fact that's happened? And do you know what happened. It looks like there's a reporter down in the white shirt there -- what happened, Steve?

HARRIGAN: So what we seeing now what looks like paintball shots fired, exploding on the ground to try and drive some protesters back, and bottles being hurled at police. So a real back and forth here. The police in this line have shown tremendous patience. They've been pelted with bottles. They've had fireworks shot at them. And they are just basically holding their ground.

HANNITY: What was that bang we just heard?

HARRIGAN: There was an explosion. That was a flash bang explosion and some fireworks to try and drive people back.

HANNITY: OK. Who started the fire in the middle of the street?

HARRIGAN: It is having less and less effect as time goes on.

HANNITY: And do you know who started the fire that is --

HARRIGAN: Your question about the make-up of this crowd is interesting because it is kind of sad how this thing has evolved over the last couple of hours, because early on when it was still light out, you saw a lot of parents with children.

HANNITY: You've got to go. There's tear gas.

HARRIGAN: I don't know what that was.

HANNITY: It looks like tear gas.

HARRIGAN: Now, those are designed to intimidate and designed to frighten. And they are very effective. They've flash bang grenades.

HANNITY: We saw one go off just now.

HARRIGAN: More tear gas as well. There's a slight breeze out which has made the tear gas less effective than it ordinarily would be.

HANNITY: Steve, stay right there. If I can, I want to go back to former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani who is on the phone with us.

Is he gone? Is Ben Carson there?


HANNITY: OK. FOX News senior correspondent Geraldo Rivera is with us. He has been in many of these situations himself. Daryl Parks who represented the Trayvon Martin family is with us as well. Geraldo, you've been in many of these situations. You see what is going on. It looks like police now are trying to take the remaining protesters, thought it looks like a bottle was just hurled at them. And they are using flash bang and some tear gas to push the crowd back. You've been there many times yourself. It seems to me like they are showing a lot of restraint. That's my opinion.

GERALDO RIVERA, FOX NEWS SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: The cops are doing a great job in Charlotte. But you're in the fourth hour now, Sean, of the second day of the rioting there in Charlotte. By this time the people who are on the street are the pros. The vast majority of them I would think would be the people who are professional agitators, people who really have, you know, the ability to flock to these combat zones and to add their two cents. That happened in Ferguson and that happens time and time again. It happened in Baltimore.

But the bigger picture in listening to Mayor Giuliani and you speaking Sean and hearing Donald Trump's suggestion of a national stop and frisk, you know, I think that we have to recognize that too many black men are being killed and questionable circumstances in confrontations with cops. I think there are a lot of other things going on, obviously. The big question of black on black violence and the need for more cops in places like Chicago, and so forth, we get the big picture that they are really, you know, the fact that the African-American inner city community has fared so poorly in the last eight, ten years. That's real. But we have to concede. Every two days, now, Sean, we have to concede that too many unarmed black men if this guy was --

HANNITY: But Geraldo, let me stop you and gently disagree with you. As I've been pointing out and as Newt Gingrich pointed out, as Rudy Giuliani pointed out here tonight, there's been 3,000 people shot in Chicago this year. There has been 3,660 murders in the city of Chicago since Obama's been president. Geraldo, I defy to you name one of those people that are dead. And I bet you can't.

And here is the problem is you've got a prose president of the United States that rushes to judgment, high profile cases, and he ends up being wrong, creating an expectation within the community of a certain outcome and result, and then people feel betrayed and disappointed because their leaders told them something by rushing to judgment before facts are presented.

RIVERA: Sean, the story is to clear from your perspective. You see it, you analyze it, you know exactly what the problem is. And yet you have conceded, and I heard you speaking with Steve Harrigan earlier, that there are two different realities, at least two different realities.

HANNITY: That's my point. But Geraldo, that's my point. Why don't we wait until the facts? Why are we always rushing to judgment?

RIVERA: You have an emotional volcano going on here.

HANNITY: But that sounds like you're justifying this.

RIVERA: I'm explaing that we are at least two different Americas. We are. We have to face this.

HANNITY: Geraldo, wait a minute.

RIVERA: People who are drawn to the peaceful protests earlier this evening, and Steve Harrigan mentioned the families with the strollers and so forth, those people were good people, law-abiding people. But they were moved because this man, apparently, I don't know if it's true or not -- and you're right, either there was a gun or this is a book and we should know. And I don't know why they aren't releasing the video of the encounter. They should do as much as they can to give people the facts so the facts will replace all of these suppositions. But right few you have people are making presumptions. The angry --

HANNITY: Let me give you an example --

RIVERA: -- say it's the cops out of control and --

HANNITY: But Geraldo, stop for a second. This is the problem, because everybody rushed to judgment in Baltimore. People's entire lives were ruined by the looting. People rushed to judgment. The whole "hands up, don't shoot" nonsense was never true. But people rushed to judgment, repeated it, and a whole movement was built out of it when in fact you have a guy on video robbing a store. You've got black witnesses testifying, again, if you let the investigation go forward, black eyewitnesses saying that Michael Brown fought a police officers, Darren Wilson, for his gun, that black eyewitnesses said that he charged at officers Darren Wilson in that particular case. And by the way, I know that our friend Daryl Parks has been involved in both of these. He was wrong in the Ferguson case and wrong in the Trayvon Martin case, Daryl. You rushed to judgment also because we had an eyewitness that put Trayvon Martin on top of George Zimmerman grounding and pounding his head into cement and a recording of George Zimmerman screaming for his life.

Those are all rushes to judgment. And I'm saying that we don't know what happened here, Geraldo. I don't know what happened. You don't know what happened. And neither do any of the people protesting tonight.

RIVERA: Every time the overwhelming truth of what you are saying begins to sink in, and everyone says oh, yes, the problem is inner city, the ghetto civil war that's going on, every time the truth of that starts to seep in, a black guy gets killed by a cop. And then the right away, the overwhelming truth of your feelings, your sincere feelings, gets blown away and you get this sharp, you know, violent, disruptive anarchy.

HANNITY: Geraldo, but this is a problem. You've got a president of the United States of America who is a lawyer, for crying out loud, who rushes to judgment without any evidence, without any facts. There's no presumption of innocence by Obama when he weighs in on these high profile cases. And to add insult to injury, the same president ignores 3,660 dead people in his home city.

RIVERA: You can't ignore that Chicago has just announced they are hiring over 1,000 new cops. That's a good thing. I think we have to consider Donald Trump's suggestion of a national stop and frisk. Stop and frisk helped end the awful contagion of violence in New York City.

HANNITY: I love you to death, but you know something, and also then embracing Black Lives Matter, Black Lives Matter on --

RIVERA: You can't exaggerate that.

HANNITY: Wait a minute --


HANNITY: Geraldo, Black Lives Matter has been -- their members have been invited to the Oval Office with President Obama, the same group that have members chanting, "What do we want? Dead cops. When do we want them? Now," "Pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon." That's your president and that's Hillary Clinton who is running for president that has sought their advice and counsel on criminal justice issues.

Let me bring back former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani. Mr. Mayor, you're watching this unfold. As you said earlier, this would not happen if you were mayor of this city.

GIULIANI: No. And I'm very sad to listen to the conversation with Geraldo for whom I have a lot of respect. But he is setting forth the rationale that closes this problem maybe because he's never run a city and had to save people lives. So I ran a city in which 2,200 people were being killed, and 75 percent of whom were black. And I put more police officers in black communities in order to save black lives. That resulted in many more confrontations between blacks and police.

HANNITY: By the way, Mr. Mayor, the --

GIULIANI: The reason, the reason that there are more confrontations between police and blacks in these inner cities is because, for example, in New York city, 70 to 75 percent of murders are committed by blacks on other blacks. And the police are there at 75 percent because they are trying to protect the lives of innocent black people. So that causes more confrontations with black people. And it causes more ambiguous situations. And every once in a while it causes unjustified shooting or incident. And when it happened, I put in my lifetime 70 police officers in jail. I have no problem putting a police officer in prison when he commits a crime.

But I have a problem with the false narrative of the president, two attorney generals, and Geraldo is giving tonight. The problem here is the huge amount of crime that goes on in black communities. Now, you have another choice. You can just let them kill themselves and ignore it, which is what New York City did for 30 years until I became mayor. They just parceled out police based on some kind of a stupid formula that had nothing to do with the amount of crime. And had I done the same thing there would be 7,000 or 8,000 more African-Americans dead today.

HANNITY: Mr. Mayor, I want to ask you this. Tell me about, when a president of the United States, we always talk about the bully pulpit of the presidency, and he keeps rushing to judgment. And I've said this before. He is like a four-time loser, wrong on Cambridge, wrong on Trayvon, wrong in Ferguson and wrong in Baltimore.

GIULIANI: How about Baltimore. Hillary Clinton announced that the cops were guilty and she never apologized for it. All six have been found not guilty, three of them by an African-American judge. She found them not guilty. And the man you were interviewing or reporter was interviewing, he has no idea what happened at the shooting. He wasn't there. How does he know what happened?

HANNITY: But nobody does. I can't say with any sense of clarity or conviction what happened yet. But I know this.

GIULIANI: Lying to people never helps them. Only the truth can actually set them free.

HANNITY: How dangerous is it that the president and Hillary Clinton have embraced --

GIULIANI: It's the reason --

HANNITY: -- the Black Lives Matter movement.

GIULIANI: It is the reason you are seeing this, and you did not see this, when I was mayor. You didn't see this when George Bush was president. It is because President Obama, Attorney General Holder, the present attorney general, secretary -- former secretary of state Hillary Clinton, and others have given some credibility to what is a completely false narrative.

Of course there are occasionally unjustified police shootings. And when they happen, those police officers should go to jail like the ones I put in jail for 25, 30, or 35 years. But the massive problem is the enormous amount of crime that goes on in the inner cities. You need to put the police there if you're going to save the lives of the innocent people. Otherwise you're just going to let them all kill themselves, which would be terrible. It would be inhumane, indecent.

HANNITY: Mr. Mayor, if you could stay on the phone with us. We have Steve Harrigan standing by. Apparently there was a reporter that was hurt. We saw somebody being put into an ambulance. We believe we know who the reporter is. And Steve is on the ground for puss. Steve, what do you got going on?

HARRIGAN: Sean, people are out here with microphones and a lot of anger. This man is 28 years old, and you say the younger people who are even more angry?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. I feel that there is a disconnect -- I feel that there is a disconnect in different races. I feel like there's a disconnect in how we raise people in general. But I feel like there's a disconnect in America, period.

If you don't give a young person, whether they are black, white, Asian, Mexican, if you don't give them a reason to be happy to live in America, they are going to be angry.

HARRIGAN: Go ahead, Sean.

HANNITY: I want you to ask, there are two very different versions. Ask this guy what if it turns out that in fact that this gentleman killed, Keith Lamont Scott, in fact did have a gun and it wasn't a book as the narrative is being told. What if it turns out he is wrong? Why does this all rush to judgment?

HARRIGAN: This all started as a police shooting. And what do you know about the details of the man who was shot? Was he holding a book or was he holding a gun?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: About that situation is whether he was holding a book, whether he was holding a gun --

HANNITY: What if he turns out to be wrong?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police are training officers to use different mechanisms to take down a criminal, let's use them. But this is not just about the case that happened in Charlotte, North Carolina yesterday. We are talking about cases that happen across the United States every single day.

HARRIGAN: This is just the spark about something bigger. It doesn't matter to you if he had a gun or book?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not in this situation. I'm not here for the bigger cause. If he had a gun, I understand. If he didn't, it makes the situation worse.

HARRIGAN: You are 28 years old, articulate young man. You're 100 yards from police. Already one person has been killed. They are firing tear gas over and over again. Why are you still out here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have a son. I tell my son every day, I tell my daughter who is six, she's in the first grade, respect the police. I respect the police. I was out there yesterday. People were calling out their names and all this and that, like I told the police, captains, regular police officers. I don't think that you're a b. I don't think that you're an a-hole. I don't think that you're any of that. All I ask for is the same way you want us to hold our peers accountable, hold your peer accountable, hold your colleague accountable for what goes on in society. You know what I'm saying?

HARRIGAN: A 28-year-old father of two, he says he's out here tonight because of those children. It's really a mixed crowd right now. A lot of young men and women with masks over their face or with shirts over their face as the police continue to try and maintain control as they have for the past three hours in downtown Charlotte, Sean.

HANNITY: Thanks, Steve Harrigan. We'll get back to you. Apparently we'll be going longer than our usual hour tonight into the midnight hour. We hope you'll stay with us for 11:00 to midnight here on the Fox News Channel, our continuing coverage of the second night of unrest in North Carolina.

Joining us now is Daryl Parks. Daryl parks represented the family of Trayvon Martin and he also was involved with the Michael Brown family. Daryl, you and I have become very friendly over the years. We've had very strong disagreement. And here we go again, I don't know where you stand on this yet, but in reality you rushed to judgment in two cases where you were wrong. You had an eyewitness in the Trayvon Martin case that put Trayvon on top of George Zimmerman, grounding and pounding his head into concrete. We have the scream on tape.

And then in the case of Ferguson, Michael Brown robbing a clerk, fighting a cop for a gun, charging a cop, and a false narrative of "hands up, don't shoot" emerged. But it all turned out to be false and people rushed to judgment. And when the facts came in and witnesses gave testimony, in both cases it turned out the original narratives were dead wrong. Your side was dead wrong.

DARYL PARKS: Sean, I've got to tell you, I think there's one point we all agree on tonight that's rather clear here in Charlotte. There's a videotape that exists from a body cam that hasn't been produced to the public. I think that part of the response we see that's going on in the streets of Charlotte today deals with the fact that there's a video that should be released. In these cases --

HANNITY: We have a legal system, and within the legal system there's an investigative process. And part of the process is you get all the evidence together. And you heard the police chief definitively say that he is 100 percent confident that the officer acted because in this case Keith Lamont Scott didn't have a book, they didn't find a book. He is saying they found a gun, a holster, and there's pictures of a gun and a holster. So only one story is right and one story is wrong. But me question is, why can't people wait until we get the facts of the case, why are they rushing to judgment? Why did you rush to judgment in Ferguson? Why did you rush to judgment in Florida?

PARKS: Sean, let me say it like this. I think that when you have a situation, when it comes to black lives, why should justice be delayed? I think that we have a country where we want to see justice, whether it's terrorism or other things, we produce justice ASAP. Justice delayed is justice denied. And I think in this case right here, if there's a videotape, they need to show the videotape. And I think it would do a lot to help the public and all concerned come at ease.

But until people see what actually happened, we shouldn't have to take the word of the Charlotte mayor. We shouldn't have to take the word of the chief of police of Charlotte-Mecklenburg County.

HANNITY: Wait a minute, cops protect our presumption of innocence, don't they? Don't they, at least those that put their lives on the line every day to save people's lives and keep our community safe and to protect and serve their communities, don't they deserve the benefit of the doubt and the presumption of innocence before you have crowds injuring 16 people, mobs, riots like we saw last night?

PARKS: Sean, let me say this, and I think you make a good point. Just like you said, the cops deserve the benefit of the doubt, what we now have in America is black men, for whatever reason, don't get the benefit of the doubt, as well. So that should go both ways.

HANNITY: Daryl, wait a second. You were dead wrong about Michael Brown. You were wrong about Trayvon Martin when the evidence was presented by a jury in a court of law.

PARKS: This case is not those cases.

HANNITY: The evidence did not rise to guilty as you wanted and you predicted. So wait a minute, you don't know for a fact that's happened. We have 800,000 cops in America. They engage in about 20 million suspect-police confrontations a year. Maybe you have 25 questionable shootings by police a year.

With all due respect, I don't hear you or see you on the streets of Chicago asking why 3,660 citizens have been killed since Obama has been president. As a matter of fact, I doubt you could name five people that have been killed of the 3,660.

PARKS: Sean, I'll say this. I think as an individual person, I do a lot and my firm does a lot to try and find justice wherever we can. I think in this situation here, I want to go back to something you said about the president and the attorney general. The one thing that we've always asked for in all these cases was a fair investigation. The one thing we believe that once the feds are involved in most cases, you get better transparency and more efficient investigation.

We don't ask the feds to give us or promise us a result. We understand the federal laws are more difficult. But a fair investigation in many situations is the proper thing that --

HANNITY: But you know what? You represented the Brown family. We had that guy on tape robbing a store, that guy on tape intimidating a clerk. We had black eyewitnesses identifying him fighting a cop for his gun, and we had black eyewitnesses identifying him charging at Darren Wilson. Darrell Wilson's career is over. Do you think that's fair?

PARKS: Let me say this, I won't comment about that case in particular.

HANNITY: You won't comment about that case? You were quick to comment earlier when you didn't have any facts.

PARKS: We'll see justice at some point. But at the end of the day, we start an investigation --

HANNITY: At the end of the day, you were wrong. At the end of the day you rushed to judgment, didn't you?

PARKS: You had an investigation. You had a thorough investigation that wasn't just based upon what the St. Louis officials did. So, yes --

HANNITY: And at the end of the day -- at the end of the day people's lives were destroyed. People who invested every single penny they had in their businesses, you know, where did they go to rebuild their lives because what, they got looted, they got robbed, their stores were burned. We never arrest the people that do it even though we've got a lot of them on videotape.

Let me bring in former LAPD detective Mark Fuhrman here. Mark, I want you to weigh in. It seems that, and I guess from a law enforcement perspective, Mark, you know what it's like, that police put themselves on their line every day to protect and serve, and in order to give people the presumption of innocence. But in all of these high profile incidents, ignoring everything that's happening in Chicago, that presumption of innocence is not granted to them. What does that mean?

MARK FUHRMAN, FORMER LAPD DETECTIVE: Well, Sean, when you look at all these shootings we're talking about when we have a broad stroke of the brush here, that we're talking about all these supposed -- you used an example of maybe 25 shootings a year. I want somebody to tell me how many officers have been indicted by the Department of Justice in the cases that they've investigated. I believe one. And that was clear cut from the beginning. It was an obvious attempt of an officer to kill somebody and plant a weapon.

So the system worked, but they preemptively assumed that all these cases are going to be the same. And I think it's wrong that we have this false narrative that we put out. We have riots. We have demonstrations. We have people getting hurt, careers destroyed, families destroyed, reputations destroyed, when the facts are in front of us. In Michael Brown, it was in front of us. In this case, it is dead in front of us.

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