'Fox News Sunday' on July 25, 2021

This is a rush transcript of "Fox News Sunday" on July 25, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS ANCHOR:  I'm Martha MacCallum, in for Chris 


Washington in gridlock over infrastructure, police reform and the January 

6th Commission, six months since Inauguration Day. 


MACCALLUM (voice-over): The rise of violent crime in cities across the 

country sparks a rethink of police reform as bipartisan talks on the Hill 

hit a roadblock. 

CHIEF ROBERT CONTEE, D.C. POLICE:  The justice system that we have right 

now, it is not functioning the way that it should. 

MACCALLUM:  We'll ask South Carolina Senator Tim Scott, the lead negotiator 

for Republicans, about the outstanding issues holding up this bill. 

Meanwhile, inflation and jobless claims on the rise as the fate of a 

bipartisan infrastructure deal remains unclear. We'll discuss the state of 

play with Virginia Senator Mark Warner, who is helping craft the bipartisan 

deal, as well as the Democrats' broader spending plan. 

Plus, the bipartisan committee to investigate the January attack on Capitol 

Hill. It falls apart before their first hearing. 

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE:  We will not let their 

antics stand in the way. 

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA), MINORITY LEADER:  This is the People's House, 

not Pelosi's House. 

MACCALLUM:  House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy pulling all Republican 

members after Nancy Pelosi overruled two of his picks. We'll speak with 

Indiana Congressman Jim Banks, one of the GOP members who was rejected by 

Speaker Pelosi. 

Then -- 

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY:  We are engaged with public health 

experts and the CDC about how to continue to attack the virus. 

MACCALLUM:  The delta virus raises new debates over mask mandates, even for 

the vaccinated. We'll ask our Sunday panel about the science and the 


All, right now, on "FOX News Sunday." 


MACCALLUM (on camera): And hello again from "FOX News Sunday".

Time is ticking on key parts of President Biden's first year agenda, 

concerning Democrats who say that the most promising window of action may 

be closing for them. Infrastructure, obviously, one of the president's top 

priorities, is facing a crucial test of his ability to forge bipartisanship 

in Washington and hold his own party together to get a deal. 

Partisan polarization means little action on voting rights, on police 

reform, and on a budget resolution. The president is also facing backlash 

from fellow Democrats for his refusal to call for eliminating the 

filibuster to push his agenda through a divided Congress.

In a moment, we'll speak with key senators on both sides of the aisle, Mark 

Warner of Virginia, and Tim Scott of South Carolina. 

But, first, let's turn to Mark Meredith, traveling with the president in 

Wilmington, Delaware. 

Hi, Mark. Good morning. 

MARK MEREDITH, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT:  Martha, six months end, President 

Biden's top priority still appears to be ending the lingering pandemic and 

the rest of his domestic agenda really rests with Congress, where bitter 

partisan divides could halt progress. 



delivering on our promises. 

MEREDITH (voice-over): President Biden insists he's getting things done, 

but on Capitol Hill, both parties are still squabbling on everything from 

nominees to infrastructure spending. 

SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R-LA): We continue to work hard, worked all day 

yesterday and through the weekend. There are some thorny issues but we can 

get it done. 

MEREDITH:  Even Democrats are scrambling to keep their base on board with 

plans to pass two massive spending packages, especially as Republicans 

argue more spending could crash the economy. 

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC):  It will take an inflation problem that we have 

today and poor jet fuel on it. 

MEREDITH:  In major cities, crime is skyrocketing. Two recent high profile 

shootings have D.C.'s police chief calling for change. 

CONTEE:  We have a vicious cycle of bad actors who do things, no 

accountability, and they end up back in the community. 

MEREDITH:  But in Congress, comprehensive criminal justice reform seems out 

of reach. 

Meantime, the delta variant is calling a surge in new COVID cases and 

deaths. The White House is struggling to increase vaccination rates and now 

some cities, including St. Louis are re-imposing mask mandates even for 

vaccinated residents. 


MEREDITH (on camera): Over the weekend, the president had a chance to make 

a campaign stop in Virginia. The commonwealth is going to be holding a 

gubernatorial election this November and that race may give both parties 

crucial insight into how voters feel heading into next year's midterm 

elections -- Martha. 

MACCALLUM:  Mark Meredith, thank you very much, Mark, reporting from 

Delaware this morning. 

So, joining us now is Senator Tim Scott, the top Republican negotiator on 

police reform.

Senator, welcome back to "FOX News Sunday". 

SEN. TIM SCOTT (R-SC): Good morning, Martha. Thank you very much. 

MACCALLUM:  Good morning, sir. Good to see this morning. 

Let's start, though, with infrastructure, if I may. 

SCOTT:  Yeah (ph).

MACCALLUM:  It's a $1.2 trillion deal. It's something that, you know, 

always seems like a kind -- the kind of thing that we should be able to 

push through, right? You got 59 percent of Americans who say that they 

approve of doing an infrastructure deal, except last week, you know, 

Senator Schumer was trying to get the procedural votes through on all of 

this, and your side was arguing that you didn't know what was in it. 

Any more clarity on what is in this bill at this point? And how are you 

looking at it? 

SCOTT:  Not at all. It's amazing when we have a vote in the Senate on a 

procedural vote to move to a bill that you haven't seen. The days of 

actually having to pass it to know what's in it has to be over. 

That is not in America's best interest to literally have blank pages on a 

multitrillion dollar spending plan that doesn't seem to be negotiated on 

either side, frankly. When you have nothing to negotiate from a page 

perspective, you can't see it, you can't negotiate it. 

I don't support that. I voted no and I'm skeptical, along with the 

Democrats who are actually planning to do, not with just the 1.2, but with 

the 3.5 that is fused together. That's just in enormous spending.

And inflation is already a tax increase on people making much less than 

$400,000. It's a tax increase on people working paycheck to paycheck. This 

is a bad decision. 

MACCALLUM:  Let me ask you this. There was discussion from the president 

that he initially said, I only want the infrastructure deal if I'm also 

going to get the 3.5 spending bill, which is known as the human 

infrastructure side of this equation, has a lot of entitlement and spending 

in it. 

Do you think that that is still where the White House is on that, and is 

that one of the reasons that you're reluctant to support the infrastructure 

built? Would you be more likely to support it if you knew what was in it, 

if it was separate and apart? 

SCOTT:  Yeah, between Nancy -- Speaker Pelosi and President Biden, we're 

all confused, because they keep stepping on each other. We really don't 

know of what, in fact, we're negotiating. 

It seems to me that one thing is very clear -- the $3.5 trillion is, in 

fact, fused together with a trillion plus dollars of infrastructure 

spending. That human infrastructure plus, the actual infrastructure is a 

very confusing package, but one thing we're not confused about is nearly 

$4.5 trillion to $4.7 trillion of additional spending on top of the $1.9 

trillion COVID package that only had 1 percent in the COVID package for 


So, we should be asking ourselves what's really in there and without 

clarity, you don't move forward. 

MACCALLUM:  You know, there's a poll out this morning. It's partly online 

poll, ABC/Ipsos. But, you know, it gives one indication of where Americans 


And it said that 55 percent of Americans are pessimistic about the 

direction of the country and that's up from 36 percent in May. So it's a 

very big jump. 

SCOTT:  Yes.

MACCALLUM:  What do you think would account for that? 

SCOTT:  Well, listen, if you think about the fact that wages went up a 

little bit, but inflation was so high, over 5 percent, that your actual 

spending power is down. When you're paying more for fruit and for fish and 

for meat, when you're paying more for little Trey's shoes to go back to 

school next month, you -- you don't seem optimistic. 

When you see that our economy is grinding slower than it should have been 

in what should be the glory days, frankly, with the pent-up demand that 

we've had in the economy, you see the violence of -- let me say this way, 

Martha: we have the highest level of violence we've seen, the highest 

increase, in 50 years. We have inflation that makes your increase in pay an 

actual reduction in pay. 

And we have liberals in Washington literally saying, we need more. The 

economy is overheating, but let's spend and put more fire on the economy. 

We have almost 9 million jobs with fewer than 8 million people looking for 



SCOTT:  Their formula for success is miserable. 

MACCALLUM:  It's interesting because the president did a town hall this 

week and he cited this quote from Mark Zandi, the economist at Moody's, as 

their argument for why they believe that inflation is just going to be 


Here's what Mark Zandi: Worries that the plan will ignite undesirably high 

inflation and an overheating economy are overdone. The fiscal support it 

provides is only sufficient to push the economy back to full employment 

from the recession caused by the COVID-19 pandemic. 

And then, if I may just go to this. This is also from that same town hall. 

President Biden arguing, and really conceding, for one of the first times, 

that the additional benefits that the Americans got may have kept some of 

them home. 

Let's play that, then we'll get your thoughts on both, if I may. 


JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES:  I think your business and the 

tourist business is really going to be in a bind for a little while. And 

one of the things, we're ending all those things that are -- the things 

keeping people back from going back to work, et cetera. 


MACCALLUM:  What you think about that? He says we're ending all of those 

things that kept people from going back to work, Senator?

SCOTT:  Well, they continued for several more weeks except for states like 

South Carolina where we decided to do away with enhanced unemployment 

benefits. And what happened to our unemployment rolls? They went down. They 

dropped precipitously. 

There's no doubt that adding more money, adding more benefits for too long 

reduces the number of people who will go back to work. Secretary Yellen 

said just a few weeks ago that yes, we should expect inflation to continue 

to increase for the next several months. That's not transitory. 

MACCALLUM:  Let me ask you -- let's turn our attention to police reform, 

obviously something that you are very passionate about, and you've had a 

lot of frustration in trying to get this through. That was the big 

conversation for a long time after what happened to George Floyd and all of 

the protests and riots that followed after that. 

But now, we've got some serious increases in homicide and crime in cities 

across the nation at this point.

So, tell us where police reform stands. You've worked on this with Senators 

Booker and Representative Karen Bass. 

Is there any hope for this bill? 

SCOTT:  I think there is hope for the bill, without any question. We worked 

on it yesterday. We'll have it in the conversation today. We'll be meeting 

tomorrow. I will be talking with law enforcement leaders tomorrow as well. 

The one thing you cannot do in police reform is leave the impression that 

somehow we're going to demonize police officers. That is dead stop, not 

going to happen, can't happen. 

We can see today in Baltimore over almost 400 officers vacant. In other 

words, they need 400 more officers, so much so that they're asking for 100 

federal officers to come in and to fill the void. 

When you demonize police officers, when you defund the police and you start 

talking about this war on police and prosecution and not on crime, you're 

going to have a reduction of forces, and if you tell officers that their 

personal liability is on the line, it is a bad decision. 

That's one of the reasons why we've never been negotiating on qualified 

immunity for the individual officer. It's just bad policy. I won't support 


Things like the chokehold and 1033, which is the militarization of police -

- those are things we can negotiate on. No-knock warrants, we can make them 

better and more transparent. We're making progress on those issues.

But we cannot, and I will not support defunding the police. We need to 

frankly refund the police. We saw that with the mayor's race in New York, 

the new mayor ran on law and order. Sounds familiar to me. 

MACCALLUM:  Yeah. You know, just overall, when you look at the 

infrastructure package, the 3.5 human infrastructure deal, police reform -- 

how are you feeling about the ability to get anything done in a bipartisan 

way, particularly before the August break, Senator? 

SCOTT:  I can tell you that that's a full agenda. I see us getting some 

things done but I hope that we keep in mind, not Republicans or Democrats, 

but we keep in mind the American people. We are literally putting them 

under more stress by the bad policies coming out of Washington. 

We should not be a part of that conversation. We should force the 

conversation into what's best for America, reducing inflation, good for 

America, getting rid of the disincentives for work, good for America, and 

restoring confidence that we can actually have strong presence of law 

enforcement in the poorest and the hardest hit communities -- those things 

are actually celebrated. 

Eighty percent of African-Americans want the same level or more officers in 

neighborhoods. We should take those facts and use them to fuse together an 

agenda that the American people will celebrate because it's about them and 

not about politicians in Washington.

MACCALLUM:  Before I let you go, Senator, articles this week about the 

amount of money you were able to raise for your Senate campaign, almost $10 

million. I think it's the most of any incumbent that is running in a 2022 

races and you say this is going to be your last Senate campaign. What does 

that say about -- why are you not going to run for Senate again after that? 

And there's a lot of talk about you in 2024. Will you be running for 

president in 2024? 

SCOTT:  I'm going to run for reelection, as you've just stated without any 


Here's what I believe. I believe the American people would really 

appreciate politicians not being lifetime public servants. God bless the 

wonderful option I've been given and blessing to serve the people of South 

Carolina, but I had a job before I went into the Senate and I want a job 

when I leave the Senate.

So I believe in term limits for all elected officials, and it's one of the 

reasons why it I've committed myself to making this my last term in the 

Senate, and I'm excited to serve the great people of South Carolina any way 

they will allow me to. 

MACCALLUM:  All right. We'll be watching for more from you on whether or 

not 2024 is a possibility for you. 

Thank you very much, Senator. Good to see you today. 

SCOTT:  Thank you, Martha. Yes, ma'am, you too. 

MACCALLUM:  So, coming up next, we'll speak with Senator Mark Warner, who 

is working on that infrastructure deal as well. We'll ask him about how 

it's going with Democrats and Republicans and whether there's any hope for 

a deal. 


MACCALLUM: Senators say that they are on the brink of finalizing a massive 

bipartisan infrastructure bill after it failed to keep tests this week, but 

there are still obstacles. 

Joining us now, Virginia Senator Mark Warner, a Democrat in the middle of 

both bipartisan negotiations and a broader Democrats-only spending bill. 

Senator Warner, good to have you here this morning on "FOX News Sunday". 

Thanks for joining us. 

SEN. MARK WARNER (D-VA): Thank you for having me, Martha. 

MACCALLUM:  So, you said that you thought there would be an infrastructure 

bill that could be looked at on Monday and that you all were working 

through the weekend. Will you have that bill in place for everybody to look 

at come tomorrow? 

WARNER:  Martha, I believe we will, because the one thing I hear and all 

across the Virginia the last couple of days, people want us to invest in 

our infrastructure. If you step back, you know, we have actually -- are 

investing at about half the rate that we invested in our infrastructure as 

we did in the 1990s. Matter of fact, Infrastructure Week became, as you 

know, a joke line during the last administration. They kept planning (ph) 

they were going to do -- promising they were going to do infrastructure, it 

never came to pass. 

A group of us, ten of us, five Democrats, five Republicans, have been 

working on this for the last couple months. This is the same group who 

actually put together the last COVID deal under President Trump. So we know 

each other, we trust each other.

And I think you're going to see, whether it's $100 billion plus for roads 

and bridges, whether it's, you know, close to $50 billion for resiliency 

for those coasts who are having sea level rise, whether it's making the 

kind of investments in cleaner buses. For example, our country is going to 

buy 20,000 new school buses over the next couple years. Should those buses 

be made in China or made in America? I think they ought to be made in 


And there's a host of new things around making our grid smarter, broadband. 

I think we've got a menu of options. And candidly, we've had those menus of 

spends -- spending items agreed to for weeks. 

What we have had to work through, because my Republican colleagues did not 

want to use enhanced or actually making sure we follow our IRS tax laws, so 

we had to replace some of those pay-fors. We're down to the last couple of 

items, and I think you're going to see a bill Monday afternoon. 

MACCALLUM:  What do say to those -- I know there was that dispute over 

whether or not the IRS part of that deal would go through. There's also -- 

would you -- do you want to see $800 billion in unspent COVID funds be part 

of this infrastructure bill? Is that going to happen? 

WARNER:  Well, interesting thing, Martha, is everybody was for some of 

these unspent COVID funds that came from the 2020 legislation. Again, most 

of that legislation passed under President Trump. Everybody is for scraping 

most dollars until you go back and look at the actual programs. 

For example, hospital relief. For example, some of the programs for small 

businesses. We are and have agreed jointly on about roughly $70 billion of 

funds that were not unspent that will be redeployed to help pay for this 

infrastructure package. So -- 


MACCALLUM:  What do say to the criticism that you heard from Senator Scott? 

WARNER:  The challenge is though, Martha -- the challenges, Martha, you've 

got folks who want to make big bold statements but sometimes don't want to 

roll up their sleeves, get into the details and make the very hard choices 

about where we -- about where we find these pay-fors. 

But, go ahead. I'm sorry?

MACCALLUM:  You heard Senator Scott and others said, you know, they didn't 

have a bill to vote on last week.

And this is what Senator Schumer said about his intention and his timeline. 

Watch this and then I'd love to get your answer on the other side. 



of passing both major infrastructure packages, the bipartisan 

infrastructure framework, and a budget resolution with reconciliation 

instructions before we leave for the August recess. That's the schedule I 

laid out at the end of June, and that's the schedule I intend to stick to. 


MACCALLUM:  I mean, that's very ambitious. Democrats hold the House, the 

Senate, the White House, can you get those two things done by this August 

recess, Senator? 

WARNER:  I sure want to and -- by the way, I mean, there's a little bit of 

wordsmanship going on here. You know, there were a half-dozen times when 

Mitch McConnell was leader of the Senate where he would put up what's 

called a shell bill because you're not finished the details and then you 

substitute the actual text once you get into the negotiations, because 

there will be amendments on this infrastructure bill, but we'll have that 

text. It will be out there tomorrow. 

After we're done with the bipartisan bill, I would love to have some of my 

Republican friends join on the reconciliation effort, the larger effort 

that looks at things like universal preschool, that looks at things like a 

free community college, that looks at things like a broad-based middle 

class tax cut for every family that has a child in terms of the child tax 


I would hope some Republicans would join us on that, but if not, I think 

the group of 50 Democrats will have to work through that resolution as 


MACCALLUM:  Well, Senator, obviously, there's a lot of concern about the 

inflation that we see rising in the country and Senator Graham spoke to 

this just the other day. Let's watch that. 


SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC):  There's a mandate in this bill to require 

every employer to offer paid family leave. That sounds good, I guess, on 

its face, until the employer has to come up with the cash to meet the 

mandate in this bill. 

Guess what the employer is going to do? They are going to increase their 

prices because the government has increased their cost. And over time, as 

we increase taxes in this bill, which they will have to do, there's less 

money to do things that businesses need to do like to modernize and hire 


So this is a nightmare for American business. It's going to be a nightmare 

for American consumers if this reconciliation bill passes. 


MACCALLUM:  So he's talking about driving up the costs for American 

businesses across this country and what the impact might be on consumers. 

Do you share those concerns about this enormous $3.5 trillion bill? 

WARNER:  Well, Martha, unlike a whole lot of the folks I work within the 

Senate, I actually spent those 30 years in business. I was involved in 

telecommunications industry, started a very large company. I can actually 

read a balance sheet, which is something that some of my colleagues can't. 

The amazing thing that Lindsey just mentioned is there is every industrial 

country in the world, with the exception of the United States, provide some 

level of paid leave if somebody is having a baby or has got a death in the 

family. Other countries have managed to do that and their economies are 

still moving forward. 

Matter of fact, if there are inflationary pressures, it is because we put 

$5 trillion into the economy, $3.5 trillion of that under President Trump 

to respond to the COVID crisis. I think history will actually treat that -- 

those investments as appropriate because we are seeing our economy rebound. 

We've added 3 million jobs in the last five months.

And, Martha, I just got to tell you, as somebody who spent longer in 

business than I have in politics, if we don't invest in road, rail, water, 

and sewer systems, broadband, those infrastructure investments will 

actually help us grow the economy, virtually every economist from left to 

right agrees on that. 

MACCALLUM:  Yeah. You know, I mean, as somebody who spent 30 years in 

business, as you say, what about the bottom line? What about these 

trillions and trillions of dollars that have been spent since COVID? And 

then you have an economy that is starting to get moving again, the fear is 

that all of this money that you talk about that's being thrown at this 

problem is going to ignite inflation that will not just be transitory, that 

will be long-lasting. And I don't think Americans have a long memory for 

what that actually feels like for companies and individuals. 

Are you concerned about that as you seek to push through this $3.5 trillion 


WARNER:  Well, again, am I concerned about inflation? I'm always concerned 

about inflation. But I also believe the Federal Reserve has pointed out 

that they think this is short-term in nature. 

We've already seen things like the cost of lumber, which went sky high, 

starts to come down. We've already seen a little bit of relaxing in the 

used car market. Finally, one of the problems around our car market was 

because would not have it available semiconductor chips. We need to make 

investments there to keep up with China.

And when you talk about some of these numbers, 3.5 trillion, big, big 

number, but that is spent out over ten years, so that's not all being spent 

in a single -- 

MACCALLUM:  It's still a big, big number. 

WARNER:  Right, but -- 

MACCALLUM:  It's unprecedented. 


WARNER:  Nothing near to the -- nothing near to the $5 trillion that we 

spent in the last year under both COVID -- under both Trump and Biden. 

MACCALLUM:  All right. You know, just in general as a Democrat, when you 

look at this period of time with control over the White House, the House, 

and the Senate, are you disappointed with what you've been able to get done 

so far? 

WARNER:  Well, I actually think the American Rescue Plan that ended up 

providing, for example, middle-class tax cut for every family that makes 

less than 150 grand that's got children with the child tax credit, I think 

that makes sense. I think the dollars that have gone to state and local 

government to shore those up who lost revenues during COVID makes sense. 

And in a state like mine, I was a telecom guy, you know, I'm proud to work 

with my governor -- we're going to make sure every household in Virginia 

has high-speed broadband by 2024. That would only happen because of the 

American Rescue Plan.

I frankly think, and I would hope, every state would do that same kind of 

plan, because if you don't have broadband going forward, your chance for 

any kind of economic future is not going to be bright. 

MACCALLUM:  Before I let you go, do you -- do you think the president 

should move to get behind the idea of eliminating the filibuster in order 

to get some of these things through while this window is still open? 

WARNER:  Martha, I don't want the Senate to become like the House, but I do 

believe when it comes to voting rights, when it comes to that basic right 

to exercise and participate in democracy, I get very worried what's 

happening in some of these states where they are actually penalizing, 

saying if you give somebody water waiting in line to vote, or in states 

like Texas where they are seeing a local government can overcome the 

results of a local election, that is not democracy. And if we have to do a 

small carve out on filibuster for voting rights, that is the only area 

where I would allow that kind of reform. 

MACCALLUM:  You don't think that's a slippery slope? 

WARNER:  Listen, I would wish we wouldn't even have started this a decade 

ago. When the Democratic leaders actually changed the rules, I don't think 

we have the Supreme Court we did if we still had a 60-vote margin on the 


But we are where we are, and the idea that somehow to protect the rights of 

the minority in the Senate, we're going to cut out rights of minorities and 

young people all across the country, that's just not right to me. 

MACCALLUM:  Senator Warner, thank you. Good to have you here today. 

WARNER:  Thank you, Martha. 

MACCALLUM:  So coming up next, the bipartisan investigation into the 

January 6th insurrection devolves into partisan warfare over the makeup of 

the committee. We will speak with one of the Republicans who was dropped by 

Speaker Pelosi, Jim Banks of Indiana, next. 


MACCALLUM: Coming up, the partisan fight over the makeup of the January 6th 

select committee. 


REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): In light of statements and actions taken by them 

of -- I could not appoint them. 

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): We will run our own investigation. 


MCCALLUM: We'll talk with one of the Republicans booted by Speaker Pelosi, 



MACCALLUM: Plans for a bipartisan committee to investigate the January 6th 

insurrection at the Capitol fell apart this week when House Speaker Nancy 

Pelosi rejected two of the Republicans who were named to that panel, 

prompting House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy to pull all of his GOP picks 

and threatened to launch his own investigation. 

Joining us now, Indiana Congressman Jim Banks, who was one of those. He 

would have been the top Republican on the panel. 

Congressman, welcome back to FOX NEWS SUNDAY. Good to have you with us this 


REP. JIM BANKS (R-IN): Hey, Martha, thanks for having me.

MACCALLUM: So, tell me, you know, I know that you had had conversations 

with Representative Bennie Thompson about what were -- what was going to be 

the matters at hand, what would be discussed. What do you think blew up 

this commission last week? What was the motivation? 

BANKS: Well, it's more clear than ever that Nancy Pelosi is not interested 

in an investigation. She's only interested in a narrative. She claimed that 

the reason that she booted me from the committee was because of antics on 

the part of Jim Jordan and I. And in hindsight what I realized what she 

means by that now is that we were prepared to ask questions that no one 

else has asked and demand answers as to why the Capitol was vulnerable to 

an attack on January 6th. Why was there a systemic breakdown of security at 

the Capitol on January 6th? If we're going to investigate January 6th, why 

not ask those questions? 

And that's -- that's all that -- that's all that this comes down to. She 

has -- she has already predetermined a narrative about Donald Trump, about 

Republicans. She doesn't want to talk about what happened at the Capitol 

that day to make sure that something like that never happens again. 

MACCALLUM: So you don't think that she has concerns about those issues and 

how that security breakdown happened? Do you think that she feels it will 

reflect poorly on her? 

BANKS: I -- I -- I really do. And -- and here's why. On -- on Wednesday, 

before I found out that I was banned from the committee -- I found out, by 

the way, on Twitter -- I was meeting with the head of the U.S. Capitol 

Police Union, who represent the rank and file heroes that make up the 

Capitol Police who protect me, my family, my staff, every single day. And 

here -- here's what he told me, the head of the Capitol Police Union told 

me, that on January 6th the Capitol Police officers weren't prepared for 

what was going to happen, even though the head of the Capitol Police had 

intelligence reports dating back to three weeks before January 6th that 

something potentially very dangerous could happen that day. They weren't 

prepared for it, they weren't trained for it, and, maybe most important of 

all, they weren't equipped for it. They lacked -- they lacked equipment, 

basic equipment, to take care of something like what should at that point -

- should have been expected would occur. 

And here's the -- here's the bottom line. Once you go up the -- to the top 

of the -- the -- the flagpole of who is in charge of the Capitol Police, 

who the Capitol Police Union chief, they blamed the leadership of the 

Capitol Police. But -- but due to the rules of the United States Capitol, 

the power instruction of the Capitol, Nancy Pelosi, the speaker of the 

House, has more control and authority and responsibly over the leadership 

of the Capitol Police than anyone else in the United States Capitol. So she 

doesn't want us to ask these questions because at the end of the day she is 

ultimately responsible for the breakdown of security at the Capitol that 

happened in January 6th.

MACCALLUM: So, your colleague, and I think you used to have a pretty good 

relationship, Liz Cheney, came out swinging against you, calling the things 

that you had said about the commission disgraceful. 

Here she is. 


REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): I am absolutely confident that we will have a non-

partisan investigation, that it will look at the facts, that it will go 

wherever the facts may lead. There are three members that the minority 

leader proposed that the speaker did not object to. She has objected to two 

members. And the rhetoric around this from the minority leader and from 

those two members has been disgraceful. This must be an investigation that 

is focused on facts. And the idea that any of this has become politicized 

is really unworthy of the office that we all hold and -- and unworthy of 

our republic. 


MACCALLUM: So she -- she called some of the things that you said 

disgraceful with regard to this investigation. 

What do you say to Liz Cheney? 

BANKS: Well, as I -- as I've already said, Speaker Pelosi didn't just ban 

me and Jim Jordan from serving on this committee, she also banned the -- 

the very basic questions that we're asking. Why -- why was the Capitol 

vulnerable on that day when three weeks before January 6th there were 

intelligence reports that the leadership of the Capitol Police were aware 


So, whether it's Speaker Pelosi or Liz Cheney or anyone who sits on this 

committee, it's clear that those are questions that we should be demanding 

answers to. Nancy Pelosi doesn't want me on that committee, but she doesn't 

also -- also doesn't want us to ask those questions because it leads to a 

series of answers that don't fit her narrative. 

MACCALLUM: So, I guess, there are a lot of questions this morning about 

what this investigation is actually going to look like because Minority 

Leader McCarthy said you guys are all out. Everybody is not going to 

participate. And yet we're hearing that Speaker Pelosi intends to go 

through with this on Tuesday. 

Here's what she said about the makeup of what this committee might look 

like just a short time ago. 

Watch this. 



more Republicans to the committee like Congressman Adam Kinzinger? 

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): That would be my plan. 

STEPHANOPOULOS: So when will that be announced? 

PELOSI: Perhaps after I speak to Adam Kinzinger --

STEPHANOPOULOS: And you believe he'll --

PELOSI: But I'm not about to announce it right this minute.


MACCALLUM: She was pretty tight-lipped about that. 

What's your understanding of who they're going to add to the committee and 

are you planning to do your own investigation on the Republican side? 

BANKS: Well, again, it's clear that Pelosi only wants members on this 

committee who will stick to her talking points and stick to her narrative. 

That's why she's picked the group that she's already picked. And anyone 

that she asks to be on this committee, from this point moving forward, will 

-- will be stuck to her -- her narrative, to her point of view. There won't 

be another -- another side. And that's -- in the history of the Congress, 

something like this has never happened before. In the history of our 

country you've never had the speaker of the House deny the -- the 

representatives that the minority party submitted for a select committee. 

It's never happened before. It's a break in precedent.

And as everyone in America knows, you have a majority view, a minority 

view. That's the whole point of our committee structure in the Congress. 

So, why does Nancy Pelosi not want to hear the other side? Why does she not 

want to answer the tough questions that Jim Jordan and I were prepared  to 

ask and demand answers to? It's pretty clear why, because the further you 

go up that chain of command, the -- the closer you get to Speaker Pelosi. 

We also know that the Senate, by the way, recently completed an 

investigation of their own. The Homeland Security and the Rules Committee 

jointly published a report that came out in June, and it talked about the 

systemic failure of leadership and the -- and the -- and a breakdown of 

security on January. We -- we know that a number of documents from the 

speaker's office were submitted for that report, but there are also a 

number of documents that they refused to release, that the speaker's office 

refused to release for that investigation that still -- still sit on the 

computers in the speaker's -- speaker's office that we should be demanding 

to take a look at as well. And the reason I can only speculate as to why 

they don't want those documents to be released, because it -- it -- it -- 

at the end of the day, it -- it shows that -- that the speaker was involved 

and the lack of leadership and the breakdown of security that occurred in 

January 6th. 

MACCALLUM: Congressman Banks, thank you very much. Good to have you with us 

today. We'll be watching that as it plays out this week. 

BANKS: Thank you. 

MACCALLUM: And coming up next -- thank you -- should vaccinated people put 

masks back on again as COVID cases rise? We're going to bring in the Sunday 

panel to discuss the debate, the politics and the science coming up next.



LATOYA CANTRELL (D), NEW ORLEANS MAYOR: We know that masking up works. 

While I have, in the past, gone maskless, I'm making up, going into 

wherever I go with that mask on, even in my office.

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): There's been talk about potentially people 

advocating at the federal level imposing compulsory mask on kids. We -- 

we're not doing that in Florida, OK.


MACCALLUM: New Orleans Mayor Latoya Cantrell issuing an indoor mask 

advisory as COVID cases surge in her city. And then you saw the Florida 

governor, Ron DeSantis, doubling down on keeping masks optional this fall 

in classrooms across his state.

Time now for our Sunday group. 

We have Jason Riley of "The Wall Street Journal" and author of the new book 

"Maverick," Catherine Lucey who covers the White House for "The Wall Street 

Journal," and Fox News political analyst Juan Williams. 

Great to have all of you with us today.

You know, we have this sort of joyful reopening of full capacity 

restaurants and baseball games and everything, Catherine.

Politically, this is, obviously, a rewind that a lot of people don't want 

to see. 

What do you think the impact is of these decisions in Louisiana and in L.A. 

County and the fact that Ron DeSantis is sticking his ground on no more 


CATHERINE LUCEY, "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL": This is a tricky situation now 

isn't it, Martha? I mean we're really heading into a tougher phase here. 

Certainly at the White House, you know, they're making clear, you know, the 

CDC is saying for now they are -- they're not issuing new guidelines. The 

White House says they will follow whatever the CDC does, but that they will 

defer to local rules.

But, broadly, this does present a political issue, you know, for the 

president. You know, he really ran on, you know, getting shots to people, 

reopening. We saw this, as you said, on July 4th, this, sort of, turn the 

corner moment.

And, you know, if people are getting more anxious now, if their -- you 

know, as debate continues on. You mentioned earlier this ABC poll that 

suggests a rising, sort of, you know, lack in optimism, that people are 

more concerned about the future, you know, that could really president an 

issue for the president going forward as he tries to work on the rest of 

his agenda.


Jason, Catherine mentions those polls. One from ABC that shows 55 percent 

of Americans think the country is not headed in a positive direction. Also 

his own poll numbers have dropped about 6 points according to Gallup in the 

most recent week.

What's the impact of this resurgence of the delta variant on the Biden 

administration and their agenda?

JASON RILEY, "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL": Well, Martha, according to Dr. 

Walensky at the CDC, something like 97 percent of people being hospitalized 

for COVID are unvaccinated people. That sounds like a vaccination problem 

to me, not a masking problem. I understand that people -- some people are 

hesitant to get the -- the vaccine. A lot of Democrats spent time 

undermining the rollout the vaccine during the Trump administration. So 

here we are. But I still don't know why the rest of us need to mask up 

until these other folks decide whether or not to get the vaccine.

I also think that masking undermines the -- the -- the vaccination effort 

in some ways. I mean one reason to get a vaccine is so that you don't need 

to wear a mask. And if you force people to do both, I think they have less 

incentive to go get a shot.

MACCALLUM: Juan, how problematic is this resurgence for the Biden agenda.

JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think that, obviously, 

it cases -- it creates anxiety in the country because everyone's unsure, 

even those who are vaccinated. I mean you think about the mask issue, 

Martha, and, you know, masks are a matter of caution for people who are 

vaccinated, but they potentially are a matter of life and death for people 

who are unvaccinated, and that includes children under 12.

So when you have, you know, 99 percent of the people who are dying being 

unvaccinated, you come to understand, we have a solution as the American 

people. The solution is, get vaccinated. So this is the people's choice. 

Open schools. You know, get our offices back open after Labor Day. Keep the 

economic recovery rolling. 

You know, it seems to me that we should just be very clear, enough 

vaccinated people, then we don't have a debate over masks, we don't have to 

debate vaccine passports. And I think they should, you know, the governor 

of Alabama this week was saying, you know, you could blame the 

unvaccinated. But I think the people who have been telling folks, oh, you 

don't need a vaccine is what's led to high rates of COVID resurging in 

Florida, in Texas, in Missouri. These are red states. And it seems to me 

that's where this resurgence has taken a foothold in the country. So 

somebody has to be accountable for this and say, you know what, let's get 


MACCALLUM: Yes. I mean we've also seen people who are vaccinated, who are 

getting breakthrough cases. So it's not only those who are unvaccinated who 

have been impacted by this. 

I want to turn to President Trump -- former President Trump and President 

Biden, both out on the campaign trail, so to speak, over the last -- over 

the course of this weekend. The Virginia governor race is kind of going to 

be the first bellwether as we begin the midterm season. And there you have 

Glenn Youngkin running against Terry McAuliffe. And President Biden left 

the White House this weekend to go campaign for him, his first time out 

there as president. 

Here's part of what he focused on when he spoke in Arlington on Friday. 


JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have to keep cutting through 

the Republican fog that government is the problem and show that we the 

people are the solution. 


MACCALLUM: So, Catherine, how much of a help do we think that President 

Biden is going to be on the campaign trail for these candidates, and, you 

know, this is the first time he's gone out there for Terry McAuliffe. Mot a 

new name. He's been around a very long time. What about this race? 

LUCEY: Well, certainly Terry McAuliffe really wanted the president in 

there. This is an early, you know, stump to get out there before Labor Day 

to make the pitch. And I think you're seeing a lot of interest from 

Democrats in getting the president out on the campaign trail and he's done 

a number of events recently, not political events, you know, events 

promoting his agenda, but he's been out in Wisconsin, Illinois, Michigan, 

you know, in congressional districts that could be closely fought next 


And Democrats really think that a lot of -- and a lot of what we saw on 

Friday was kind of a preview of what the message could be for the midterms. 

So talking about the Biden agenda, you know, what he's done so far in terms 

of COVID and shots and checks, but also the legislative proposals around 

infrastructure and the poverty plans that they're trying to push through. 


LUCEY: Of course the issue though is that, you know, there are a lot of, 

you know, challenges rising. You know, as the delta cases rise, concerns 

about inflation, and, obviously, you know, they haven't gotten these 

legislative proposals across the finish line. So those things remain to be 


MACCALLUM: Yes, that's exactly the point, Jason. You know, how effective 

can President Biden be when he's having so much trouble with, you know, all 

three houses, the House, the Senate, and the White House, all in Democrat 

hands, and he's having a tough time getting these big things passed? 

RILEY: Yes, I -- well, the president's job approval rating is right around 

50 percent. So I don't think a Democratic candidate would have a problem 

with President Biden stumping for him. You know, Biden won the state by ten 

points. He's pretty popular in Virginia according to the polls. 

So, no, I don't -- I don't think him being out there right now is going to 

be a problem. I think the party still sees him as someone who can rally 

voters and get them out in this -- in this special election. 

MACCALLUM: Yes. And President Trump in Arizona, Juan, trying to make sure 

that Arizona gets back into his column. He also went after Mike Pence last 

night saying someone gave him some bad advice on certifying the election. 

Last thought on Trump in Arizona. 

WILLIAMS: Well, I think, you know, Biden said in Virginia, he ran against 

Trump and he whipped him. And that now you have Terry McAuliffe running 

against Trump in Virginia in terms of Glenn Youngkin. So I think that's a 

pretty good line. 

And what you see Trump doing in Arizona is trying to stir his base. I don't 

know that he has much ability at this point, though.

MACCALLUM: Thank you all. Good to have you with us on our Sunday panel this 


Coming up next, our "Power Player of the Week," Bryan Cranston, on the 

iconic roles that have made him one of our most respected actors. 


MACCALLUM: He was a journeyman actor who turned small parts into memorable 

characters. And as we first told you last winter, when he finally got his 

big break, he was ready to make the most of it. Here's Chris Wallace with 

the "Power Player of the Week." 


BRYAN CRANSTON, AWARD-WINNING ACTOR: From the time I was 25 years old, I 

was making a living as an actor. And that really was my goal. Once that 

happened, whatever happens on top of making a living is just gravy. 

CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS ANCHOR (voice over): Bryan Cranston is one of 

America's most accomplished actors, but he still seems surprised by his 


CRANSTON: My dad was an actor. He really wanted to be a star. And when he 

didn't become a star, it really kind of destroyed him. 

So I wasn't going to be an actor. I was going to become a police officer 

here in Los Angeles. 

WALLACE: But he was a natural and a scene stealer. 

WALLACE (on camera): The first time I remember seeing you was as Tim 

Whatley, the dentist on Jerry Seinfeld. 

How big a break was that? 

CRANSTON: Enormous. Being cast as Tim Whatley on "Seinfeld" was like 

permission to go to comedy camp. 

WALLACE (voice over): He gained a bigger following as the dad on the unruly 

family sitcom "Malcolm in the Middle." And then came his unforgettable turn 

as Walter White, the chemistry teacher turned drug kingpin on "Breaking 

Bad" that earned him four Emmys. 

CRANSTON: To all law enforcement entities, this is not an admission of 


WALLACE (on camera): Did you realize that was going to change everything? 

CRANSTON: No. A little show on AMC? I -- no one has any clue that it's 

going to become what it became. 

WALLACE: And why do you think the show and you made such a mark? 

CRANSTON: The most underrated element in all of performance art is the 

writing. I always say this, if Meryl Streep got C-level material, she could 

bring it up to a B. But that's it. When you get A-level material, as I was 

handed in "Breaking Bad," you get a little nervous, like, oh, I can't mess 

this up now. 

WALLACE (voice over): The role propelled Cranston to leading man status 

with turns on Broadway as LBJ and Howard Beale in "Network." 

Now on Showtime's "Your Honor," Cranston plays a judge using his legal 

knowledge to keep his teenage son alive and out of jail after a hit-and-run 

accident killing a mobster's son. 

CRANSTON: Your worst fear is the threat of -- of something happening to 

your child. Everyone said, oh, yes, if I felt my child was under mortal 

threat, I would absolutely become a criminal or do whatever it takes to 

save my child. 

CRANSTON: I can still make this work.

It's fantastic. 

WALLACE: Maybe it's time for Cranston to raise his sites from just making a 


WALLACE (on camera): You are now one of the most respected actors in the 

business. It's got to be kind of fun. 

CRANSTON: Oh, it's a blast! It's a blast! I love what I do. I love acting. 

I'll leave when it stops being fun. But, right now, it's still a blast. So 

I'll still do it as long as people will have me. 


MACCALLUM: And that is it for today. 

Have a great week, everybody, and I'll see you tomorrow on "The Story" at 

3:00 p.m. Eastern on Fox News Channel.

And we'll see you back here next FOX NEWS SUNDAY.

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