Federal bailout for airline industry under scrutiny

This is a rush transcript from "Your World with Neil Cavuto," April 24, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

NEIL CAVUTO, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: All right, Bill, thank you very, very much.

Well, open for business, a couple of states trying it out today, Georgia first and foremost, Texas giving it a stab here, as the country slowly begins the process of unwinding in bits and stages here, but it is happening, nevertheless.

Welcome, everybody. I'm Neil Cavuto. And this is "YOUR WORLD."

Now, some of the things we are following very, very closely today is not only the reopening in some states, but the controversy over the president saying that he was being sarcastic yesterday over comments he made about disinfectants.

Now, we're going to get into the pros and cons of that, a doctor who kind of accepts it at face value, and another doctor who's worried about the kind of stuff he says.

First and foremost, though, I want to get the latest on what's happening in Georgia. As you know, the governor there had come under immense criticism for even partially reopening the state to the degree he has, given the still high number of deaths and the fact that the so-called curve has not really curved the way it should for a state to normally consider doing something like this.

Having said that, though, we got the latest from Jonathan Serrie in Georgia -- Jonathan.

JONATHAN SERRIE, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Neil.

Although many of these businesses now have permission to reopen, not all of them are doing so. And those that are reopening are employing very strict safety protocols.

We really want to show you this video here. This is a sign of the new normal. We were outside one hair salon where we saw an employee holding an infrared thermometer up to the forehead of a customer, screening for fever before allowing the customer in.

Some of these salons are limiting customers to one at a time. And those that are showing up today, customers that are showing up today say they feel safe.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HEATHER DIRKSE, SALON CUSTOMER: I have absolutely no concern. I think that the data is just simply there -- not there to support how crazy the world has gotten.

Now, maybe in some cities that are more transient, like New York and California, I can see what's going on. But I am very proud of Governor Kemp for being the first to open a state.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERRIE: But not everyone's rushing to reopen.

The owners of this Atlanta barbershop say they're not ready until they can acquire proper safety equipment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEX TEYF, GINO'S CLASSIC BARBER SHOPPE: Without masks and without regular testing for our asymptomatic staff, we won't feel comfortable opening.

It's very similar to just letting us out and the desert with no water.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERRIE: Gyms and fitness centers are also allowed to reopen, but this L.A. Fitness here remains closed, the parent company wanting to play it safe.

And also Atlanta area YMCAs are also remaining closed. They want to employ more social distancing efforts, sort of undergoing a renovation, so that when customers do come back, it'll be safe.

Here at this strip mall, there are a number of spas that have reopened here, again, following those very strict social distancing protocols.

But as far as customers, Neil, this lot is less than a quarter full, judging from all the cars here -- back to you.

CAVUTO: All right, Jonathan Serrie, thank you very, very much.

Now let's go to Texas, of course, where they reopened things, not across the board. These are done incrementally here. But, in Texas, that was something that was widely waited on here, because the governor himself, who has really dialed back criticism from what he's been doing to keep the state kind of operating business as usual, but still dialing back when it comes to, like, distancing provisions of the rest.

Having said that, though, they were inching closer and closer to opening up a little bit more in the Lone Star State.

For the latest on that, Casey Stegall in Dallas -- Casey.

CASEY STEGALL, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Neil.

Yes, unlike where Jonathan was there in Georgia, stores, retail stores in Texas are open for business today, but you can't just walk in and shop around like you would normally do. It's a retail on-the-go capacity, which means they are putting out sales.

They're putting out merchandise on Facebook, on Instagram, all of these small business owners that don't have vast inventories of their products, like the big box stores do, Target and Walmart, for example, but going to social media, getting creative with trying to lure back some of their loyal customer base.

Now, dine-in restaurants and salons and gyms remain closed across Texas today. This retail on-the-go is phasing in, gradually starting to reopen the economy, and some of the shop owners say they are trying desperately to get back some of that lost revenue.

Meantime, let's take it north of here to Oklahoma. That is a very different situation up there. Fewer COVID infections allowed looser restrictions being lifted today. Nail salons, barbers, spas, they are all open in Oklahoma today, by appointment only.

The governors of both Oklahoma and Texas expect to tackle the next phase next week, which is limited to dine-in restaurants, gyms and movie theaters. So, on Monday, the governor of Texas is expected to hold a press conference and announce the next phase of reopening Texas.

This week, Monday, it was parks. Elective surgery restrictions were lifted on Wednesday. And, Neil, today, retail on-the-go, and proving to be pretty successful so far in Texas -- back to you.

CAVUTO: All right, fingers crossed, my friend, Casey Stegall in Dallas.

You know, imagine to be a business man or woman who'd been shut down for the better part of a month, and trying to get -- get back, and all of a sudden seeing that you have a chance to get your business back.

Imagine being this next fellow. Eddie Ares is the owner of the Academy Ballroom in Atlanta.

Eddie, good to have you.

How do you feel today, back in business?

EDDIE ARES, OWNER, ACADEMY BALLROOM ATLANTA: Oh, we feel great. I mean, it's time for us to try to do something to get all the dancers back making money.

CAVUTO: All right, so how does it work out? You get people in as well.

What's the crowd like when they hear that, hey, you're open for business?

ARES: Well, everybody's pretty excited.

So what we're doing actually today is try to figure -- we're figuring out a procedure, some type of guideline that we can go ahead and get everybody back to work. As you can see behind us, we're trying to follow the protocols of the CDC, by six feet, or two arms' length, and dancing without any dance contact, within two arms' length of each other, no touching, not at all.

Over here, we have one instructor with two dancers dancing solo within six feet apart, so they can go ahead and get their training, their exercise, and also the dancers will start making money again, which is -- because we're being hit really hard, as the artistic world.

CAVUTO: No, I can imagine.

Eddie, I notice that the two dancers right behind you to the left, as I'm looking at it, I'm wondering, they have to maintain a two arms' length distance, right?

ARES: Yes.

CAVUTO: So they don't have to subscribe to the six-foot distance. Does it depend on the dance, or...

ARES: Well, yes.

I mean, for example, they right now are doing a Latin dance. But, Paul, and -- can you do a tango or a waltz?

We can still use the two-arm-length distance to do a ballroom dance with the waltz, yes. So, before they were doing the rumba, a Latin dance. Now they're actually doing the waltz.

But as long as they stay within those two-arm distance, is what we're pushing. Also, when people are coming in right at the door, we stop them at the door. We get them to sanitize their hands. We get them -- we take the temperature.

We ask them five questions. Have you had these symptoms within the last five days? And so on and so on. Then we get them to put their mask on. And then they can go ahead and go change.

We only allow five teachers out of 25 instructors that are here at the studio to be here at the same time, along with their clients, so we can have no more than 10 people. We have a 14,000-square-foot ballroom, so we have a lot of space.

CAVUTO: Wow.

ARES: But we do not want more than five instructors here with their students at the same time.

CAVUTO: So, in your studio, you can have no more than 10 people, including instructors? That's a big studio.

ARES: It's a huge studio, yes.

CAVUTO: Yes.

ARES: But, right now, I do believe that this thing that's happening, we don't really know everything about it.

CAVUTO: Sure.

ARES: So, right now, we're trying to come up with a procedure where it's going to work for everyone, so we won't pass this epidemic on or this -- the virus on to anybody.

We want to try to make sure that we follow all the guidelines and we try to come up with a solution, like gloves. We teach with masks. Nobody's allowed to do that. When everybody goes home, wash their clothes, if they're going to use the same clothes, and come back the next day with fresh clothes.

So we're going to try to do everything in our power to see if we can continue to have the dance world, which the ballroom world is a huge community, back and running, especially in places like New York and California, and here in Atlanta, Georgia.

So, crossing our fingers.

CAVUTO: All right.

Well, good -- good luck to you, Eddie. May they keep dancing and you keep prospering.

ARES: Thank you.

CAVUTO: Eddie Ares, the owner of the Academy Ballroom in Atlanta, thank you, sir.

All right, in the meantime, we should draw your attention to the fact that not everybody is happy, because not everyone's state is open or even thinking about partially reopening right now.

We could see more of that next week, when some states do. But, as a matter of fact, in Wisconsin, there are concerns that it could get delayed significantly here. And a lot of protesters, like we have seen in a lot of states, well, a lot of them are violating these social distance rules.

But more of them are just impatient with the fact that the rules are even in effect at all.

The latest now from Matt Finn in Madison.

Hey, Matt.

MATT FINN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Neil, it is a large, loud protest outside of the capitol building here in Madison, Wisconsin. Starting to die down a little bit now.

Wisconsin protesters we talk to here say they're especially frustrated that large chain stores remain open, but many locally owned businesses are closed or suffering.

And both speakers at the mic and protesters in the crowd here in Wisconsin also say they have the common sense to hold safe religious services and feel their freedom to worship is being infringed upon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm for surgically addressing the problem with intelligence, data and not emotion. And that's what our governor is doing. He's bring emotion and politics into this, one size fits all.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am here because I'm doing what's right for my fellow citizens. I -- I'm -- I have never been a Donald Trump supporter. I'm not a Democrat or a Republican. I'm just an American. So that's why I'm here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FINN: These protests, Neil, like you said, are raising health concerns nationwide, because protesters are not socially distanced or wearing masks.

And, today, there are a lot of people in the crowd that are shoulder to shoulder and not wearing masks, although, a short while ago, this crowd cheered people not wearing masks or people who decided to wear them, because they say it's their choice and that really is a part of their protest -- Neil.

CAVUTO: It might be their choice, but they know they could potentially be putting others in danger. But they don't seem to care, or what?

All right, might have lost the connection on that.

But they are free to assemble. That is a right granted in our Constitution, but -- it is their choice, but you do have to worry about some of the other stuff that comes up. People get hot and bothered, impatient. I could get that and see that.

I can also understand Peloton, the biker, right now reporting its largest streaming class ever. Get a load of this. A while today, they had more than 23,000 people streaming the service from home.

That just blew away all records for Peloton. The fact of the matter, the stock was up 6 percent. It's up close to 20 percent on the year. That is considered among the small group of winners in this environment where we're all cocooning at home, especially among the more industrious of us who are actually exercising, and not doing what I'm doing, helping the food purveyors.

But the Dow was up 260 points today, Peloton not a member of that, but growing optimism that oil is stabilizing. It inched up a little bit today, up over the last three days a little bit north of 50 percent. That was welcome news to a market that thought we were slip-sliding into oblivion here. But these are wild and gyrating markets.

Then there is talk about still more stimulus to come, but maybe for the airline industry already looking at some big help from Uncle Sam. But it's a moving target.

The transportation secretary of the United States on that -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) CAVUTO: Well, it's all about getting back to business, whether you're talking about states that are slowly unwinding stay-at-home provisions or, well, the airline industry, which is trying, now with the help of some federal money, tens of billions of dollars' worth of federal money, to keep them afloat, to counter what has been a better-than-95-percent drop in bookings and traffic just since the start of the year, when this virus essentially first hit.

With us now, the transportation secretary of the United States, Elaine Chao.

Secretary, very good to have you.

ELAINE CHAO, U.S. SECRETARY OF TRANSPORTATION: Thanks for having me.

CAVUTO: Now, what is the breakdown of the money the airlines are receiving?

I know it's not an equal amount of money to each airline, but does it break down to 70 percent of it being a grant, 30 percent of it a loan?

CHAO: Well...

CAVUTO: Just explain how it's working, how many have gotten it.

CHAO: Well, basically, the $50 billion, that was the CARES Act, which was signed by the president on March 27, provided $50 billion for the airline industry and travel agents and also ground crews as well. So, it's not just totally to the airlines.

Furthermore, there are about 257 airlines that share that money as well. There are six major ones that we all know about, but it's actually money that's quite dispersed.

Number two, about 50 percent of it originally was supposed to go to grants, 50 percent -- 50 percent was supposed to go to loans. But the Treasury is administering this program, and a certain part of the grants will be low- interest loans.

So, overall, it's going to be a combination of loans and grants. And, of course, as part of these -- this disbursement of funds, there will be some equity that will be taken by the government in the form of warrants.

And we hope that most of it...

CAVUTO: All right, so the taxpayers might get something back on this.

Go ahead.

CHAO: Well, we hope that -- this money is supposed to meet payroll, first and foremost,

CAVUTO: Right.

CHAO: I mean, 90 percent of it is going to be maintaining payroll and operations.

And so, as the secretary of transportation, I'm concerned about the safe operations of the transportation system. And I'm also concerned about workers' payrolls, workers' jobs.

CAVUTO: The workers have been concerned that the few people who are flying these days, Secretary, they're not wearing masks. In fact, it's quite routine for a lot of people crowded in planes, eight out of 10 of them aren't.

Do you think they should?

CHAO: You know, we're just not accustomed to it as a country.

We see other -- other countries with its population wearing gloves and masks. It's quite common. For us, we are not used to that.

So, we have to get used to it. And some people are going to wear it and some people are not. We should really listen to the public health experts. United Airlines is thinking about asking their crew to put on masks.

CAVUTO: Right.

CHAO: But, at this point, with a 96 percent drop in passenger volume, I mean, the load factor is about 4 percent.

There can be social distancing on airplanes these days. And the airplane -- the airliners are taking each -- they're doing it their own way. They're not putting passengers in the middle seat. They're spacing the passengers out. They're cleaning the cabins much more frequently.

CAVUTO: Right.

CHAO: They're asking their crews to not use the same equipment and giving more flexibility to flight attendants, for example, to show the safety procedures, not necessarily using the...

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: Well, Secretary, you mentioned -- you mentioned flight attendants. You mentioned flight attendants.

CHAO: Yes.

CAVUTO: The flight attendants union was among those saying, they got to be wearing masks.

CHAO: Yes.

CAVUTO: Passengers have to wear marks. It's dangerous enough for us on these planes, and now a bunch of coughing, hacking folks come on board here, we're in danger, so that it should be required.

You say?

CHAO: So, this -- so, as mentioned, the tremendous decrease in passenger volume is a reality these days. So, so many of our airplanes are going with less than their usual load factor.

But, having said that, the safety of the passengers, the safety of the crew is important. And so we are encouraging the unions and management of the airlines to talk to one another.

And we are also participating in bringing them together and talking about some of these issues. But the airlines are already taking steps for social distancing on board the planes. They're also taking steps to frequently clean the planes, the cabins more than they have before.

But, again, these are issues that we're all facing together that we have to talk to one another about and decide on a path forward.

CAVUTO: Are you worried, though, that even when it's cleared for people to sort of venture out a little bit more, they're not going to do, they will be afraid to be on crowded planes, they will be afraid to go into restaurants and theaters and all, that this could take some time?

And, lo and behold, this money that's been provided, certainly to the airlines and certainly needed, they could blow through that, much like we just blew through the first tranche of the small business loans, right?

CHAO: Well, the president just signed today another $500 billion in assistance primarily to small businesses and hospitals.

That's why -- the economy has to come back. And so the whole-of-government approach is getting ready for that, but in a phased, deliberative fashion, which is why the president last Thursday talked about a three-phase return of the economy.

CAVUTO: All right.

CHAO: And so much of it is going to depend on each of the individual states.

So, the governors are going to have to decide for their own state how best to handle a recovery.

CAVUTO: And doing their part.

CHAO: Absolutely.

CAVUTO: Secretary, thank you. Thank you very much.

We will see how it all works, Elaine Chao, transportation secretary.

More after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: You know, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell might want to know more programming from his basement.

As it turns out, the National Football League said the first round of its virtual draft -- get this -- attracted 15.6 million viewers, at the high point of the night, around 9:30, 9:45 Eastern time, close to 20 million viewers.

That was a virtual draft, my friends. And it is up 37 percent from the crowds that watched last year. So, think about that. I wonder, after this, if the NFL gets some ideas, you know what, this might make a good model going forward.

We will see. Huge ratings for this.

All right, in the meantime, the governor of Nebraska is looking at eventually getting his state full-steam back to work, but he plans to do it in stages, and he plans to do it very, very carefully here. He's in no rush to get anything wrong.

The Republican Nebraska governor joins us now, Pete Ricketts.

Governor, very good to have you. Thanks for taking the time.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: So, you want to do this in stages. How -- explain how that is going to work.

GOV. PETE RICKETTS (R-NE): Yes.

So, what we're doing is looking at how we can gradually release some of the restrictions we have got. In fact, I just announced some more restrictions we're releasing today, for example, to allow for worship services, weddings and funerals, under certain circumstances, doing that physical distancing, the six-foot thing, to do that statewide.

We're also for, about half our public health districts, going to be allowing restaurants to be able to do -- have dine-in customers, but only to 50 percent of their capacity, and, then again, under certain restrictions, like all the staff have to be masked and that sort of thing.

So we're looking at easing some of these restrictions that we have, but do it in a gradual way. And the 10-person rule that the president launched March 16, we're going to keep that in effect until May 31, with some of these exclusions.

CAVUTO: All right, so the exclusions that you outlined, I know, separately, you have announced a testing initiative.

Can you explain how that's going to work?

RICKETTS: Yes, absolutely.

So, what we're doing is,we just launched a program called Test Nebraska. It is a program to get Nebraskans to sign up to be assessed, and then we will do the testing on them.

And then, if they test positive, we will do the contact tracing to be able to make sure that, not only are those people who tested positive isolating, but we go back and get all those people they have been in contact with over the last several weeks and get them to isolate or to quarantine, so that, if they develop systems -- symptoms, they're not infecting anybody else.

And so this is a way that we can really slow the spread of the virus and isolate the people who are most impacted to allow us to start doing some of these other things to lessen the restrictions on people who are not impacted by coronavirus.

So, it's a key part of how we open up our state. And all of this is about making sure we don't overwhelm the health care system. That's really our North Star there is, we're really watching what happens to our hospital beds, our ICU beds, and our ventilators? Are we keeping good capacity there?

CAVUTO: All right, you said, in the restaurants, that those working there have to wear masks. It would be kind of weird for the people going there, the customers, to be wearing masks while they're eating.

But I'm sure the restaurant workers, grateful though they might be to have their jobs back and be working again, do they have any reason to be concerned that this could trigger a spike in cases in your state?

RICKETTS: Well, again, what we have is not just that they're wearing masks, but we have other restrictions in place as well. I mentioned the 50 percent capacity.

CAVUTO: Right.

RICKETTS: But tables have to be six feet apart, again, social distancing.

Servers have to stand back from the tables. They can't handle cash. That can only be done at the cashier. So, we're putting other conditions in place to help keep the staff and the customer safe.

And what we're going to do is just monitor all this and see what happens with regard to the number of cases we're getting, how many people are testing -- what percentage are testing positive when we do testing, to make sure that we're doing this in a way that doesn't overwhelm the health care system.

CAVUTO: All right, Governor, we wish you well and your fine residents well.

Pete Ricketts, the governor of Nebraska, taking this step by step, a very cautious approach.

All right, did the president -- was he being sarcastic, or was he being real? He says today comments he made about disinfectants, of course, that was all taken out of context, it was the fake media.

So, we went back to the tapes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: Well, the president says his comments on injecting disaffected were sarcastic and that the fake news media made a big deal out of it.

We're talking to a couple of doctors who have very different views of the same conversation -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: What did he say? And what did he mean? And did he mean what he appeared to say?

The controversy over the president's remarks on disinfectants that the president kind of reversed today and blamed on the media for falsely claiming it was medical advice.

It gets a little hairier than that.

John Roberts following the controversy -- John.

JOHN ROBERTS, FOX NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hey, we will just play the tape for you, Neil, here, but let's set it up.

First of all, the president ignited controversy last night after a presentation from Bill Bryan, who's the head of science and technology for DHS. Bryan came up and gave a presentation on how long coronavirus lives on a hard surface, given certain circumstances, like heat, humidity and disinfectants.

The president then asked a question of Dr. Bryan, well, is it possible to inject or in some other way get disinfectant inside the body as sort of a cleanse?

But, today, in the Oval Office, when asked about that, the president said, nah, I was just punking the media. Watch here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, I was asking the question sarcastically to reporters like you, just to see what would happen.

Now, disinfectant or doing this maybe on the hands would work. And I was asking the question of the gentleman who was there yesterday, Bill, because when they say that something will last three or four hours or six hours, but if the sun is out, or if they use disinfectant, it goes away in less than a minute -- did you hear about this yesterday?

But I was asking you a sarcastic -- and a very sarcastic question -- to the reporters in the room about disinfectant on the inside.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS: All right, so, the president says it was just sarcasm.

But let's re-rack the tape and listen to what he said last night, how he said it, and who he said it to. Watch here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: A question that probably some of you are thinking of, if you're totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting.

So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it's ultraviolet or just very powerful light. And I think you said that hasn't been checked, but you're going to test it.

And then I said, supposing you brought the light inside the body, you -- which you can do, either through the skin or in some other way. And I think you said you're going test that too. Sounds interesting.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Right. And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute.

And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or -- or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs, and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So, it would be interesting to check that.

So, that, you're going have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds -- it sounds interesting to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS: So, the president was addressing the press in the room, but the questions were addressed to Bill Bryan, who was sitting there just beyond the podium, and sitting beside Dr. Birx.

Asked about it by Jesse Watters for his program tomorrow night, here's what Dr. Birx said:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DEBORAH BIRX, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS RESPONSE COORDINATOR: You know, when he gets new information, he likes to talk that through out loud and really have that dialogue.

And so that's what dialogue he was having. I think he just saw the information at the time immediately before the press conference, and he was still digesting that information.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS: So, as you can believe, there's been a lot of reaction to this, including from Joe Biden, who said in a statement, in a tweet -- quote -- "I can't believe I have to say this, but, please, don't drink bleach."

Now, one area where the president is correct here, Neil, is on this idea of maybe getting ultraviolet light inside the body, because there is a company in Colorado that is experimenting with a medical device, it's not yet in use in patients, which embeds one of those ventilator tubes with ultraviolet light-emitting LEDs, in hopes that if you got that deep in the trachea, you might be able to treat some of the virus from the inside with ultraviolet light.

But, again, I'm told that research is very early. It's not ready for application in a clinical setting just yet -- Neil.

CAVUTO: To allay any doubts, I know the makers of Lysol, among others, said, just so you know, this is not something for ingesting.

But, obviously, they must have been concerned enough to say that the president gave that impression.

ROBERTS: Yes.

I mean, it says right there: "As a global leader in health and hygiene products, we must be clear that under no circumstance should our disinfectant products be administered into the human body through injection, ingestion, or any other route. As with all products, our disinfectant and hygiene products should only be used as intended and in line with usage guidelines. Please read the label and safety information."

I mean, if you're looking at a lot of these disinfectant products, whether it be Lysol, whether it be isopropyl alcohol, or some of the other things that we're using to disinfect, those are poisons.

And isopropyl alcohol, there's plenty of cases where somebody at a wedding spiked the punch, and a lot of people either went blind or died.

CAVUTO: Right.

ROBERTS: So, don't do it.

CAVUTO: Don't do it.

John Roberts, thank you very much.

I want to get the read from Nicole Saphier, her bestselling book, "Make America Healthy Again." She helps us on all medical matters here.

Doctor, what do you think?

DR. NICOLE SAPHIER, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, Neil, was the president being sarcastic? I mean, he says he was. We know that he speaks off the cuff.

I think part of the reason he won the 2016 election is because he does speak extemporaneously. But here's the issue. When you have people that are hunkered down at home, they're very afraid of this virus right now, that is possibly not the time to speak off the cuff, especially when you're thinking of things you can do at home to protect you from this viral illness.

You only have to go look as far as -- as far as the Tide pod challenge know that people don't necessarily have the wherewithal not to swallow laundry detergent. I mean, it's not going to wash your insides like it washes your clothes.

So, although I do believe -- I agree with what Dr. Birx said that he gets this information and then he chews on it, and he just likes to -- again, speak off the cuff. But the truth is, I think we have to be very clear in what we're saying to the general public, because people are afraid, and they really just need some concise information as to what they can do to stay safe, which I do think that they also are doing a good job of providing that information.

CAVUTO: But his words do carry weight. He is the president of the United States, so people obviously listen to him, pay more attention than they might others who go up on that -- to that microphone.

And it occurs the same week we learn that maybe hydroxychloroquine isn't the magic medical bullet that some, maybe even the president, had hoped, the FDA saying this is dangerous stuff outside of a clinic or clinical studies or a hospital, and this only days after these findings at a VA hospital that a number of people died who were vulnerable to some of the side effects or had some of the underlying conditions that could take -- make taking this a little risky.

Do you think that the president just has to be more careful or leave the medical advice to his experts?

SAPHIER: I do think, right now, because we are in such a heightened state of awareness, and we don't have a proven treatment for this illness, we don't have a vaccine yet, I think it's really important to be very clear and concise and straightforward with our information to the public, because we don't want to incite any undue panic.

And by telling people of certain bits of pieces of information that he may have heard from one report, that may not actually translate to information that the public needs to know right now, because I will tell you, I heard what you're talking about with the U.V. light being treated within the trachea.

We're a long way from using U.V. light in vivo like that. There are -- there are proven benefits of U.V. light, but not in that sort of way. And so it is it's important that we don't give fake news, and that we do just provide as much truth and factual evidence as possible to keep Americans safe and healthy.

CAVUTO: Right.

All right, Dr. Saphier, thank you very much.

Fair and balanced here, a read from another doctor, who says, you know, everyone, take a chill pill.

I don't think Dr. Makary is wording it that way, but the Johns Hopkins University physician and professor of public health joining me now on the phone.

You didn't take the president literally on his remarks. Is that right, Doctor?

DR. MARTIN MAKARY, JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY: That's right.

I was surprised at all the coverage over that comment. The president does speak sort of openly and likes to float big ideas. And out of all of the things in that press briefing, I took a lot of things away, but I didn't even pay attention to that.

So I was kind of disappointed with all the media coverage around it. And I -- look, I think everybody is in agreement here. Nobody should ever ingest disinfectant or bleach or inject it.

And I didn't hear that suggested. In fact, literally, what I heard was, maybe we could think about something like that. And I interpret that as some big idea, some big antiviral, some new therapeutic. Let's think big.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: All right, well -- well, it didn't strike me, Doctor, as -- it's a very good point, but it didn't strike me as being sarcastic, first off.

Here's exactly what he said. We made sure we didn't want to edit this. This is what he said last night. Take a look again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: A question that probably some of you are thinking of, if you're totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting.

So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it's ultraviolet or just very powerful light. And I think you said that hasn't been checked, but you're going to test it.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Right. And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute.

So, that, you're going have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds -- it sounds interesting to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAVUTO: You know, Doctor, I'm not one to read sarcasm or seriousness, but I did see a slightly petrified look in Dr. Birx.

You might be right about this that people pounced on this to say, did the president just say a disinfectant inside the body might be helpful?

Now, you read that, no, he didn't say that. But a lot of people did, so much so that the maker of Lysol had to put out this statement, no, no, no, no, don't do that.

Do you think he should just be quiet on these type of issues, and leave it to folks like you to suggest these things, if you would at all?

MAKARY: Well, I do think he should leave it to physicians. And I did hear him say that even a few times in the comment, I don't know and who knows, it could be interesting, and we will leave it up to the doctors.

But I have seen him -- I haven't worked closely with him, but I have had several meetings when I worked with him on price transparency, and he just throws gigantic ideas as, you know, hey, think about something along these lines.

And people take it, the experts take it for general motivational idea, thought to do -- think big. But I don't think anybody took that literally.

So, I think what I what I have also noticed is, he throws big ideas out when he gets excited. And there was some good news yesterday. I mean, a day ago, a study out of China found that, in 318 outbreaks, outdoor transmission was only identified in one of those 318 outbreaks.

That means being outdoors is relatively good. It's relatively safe. And that is a good -- a piece of good news right now.

CAVUTO: So, just to be clear -- and you're the medical expert -- certainly, I am not, Doctor -- but a disinfectant is fine for cleaning off surfaces and counters, doorknobs, that sort of thing, but to take it internally is not a good idea, right?

MAKARY: Never a good idea in any circumstance.

And I would be very disappointed if anybody interpreted the media reporting in a way that they thought perhaps it could be at. It absolutely is not. And it's very dangerous. And people die from that sort of thing in other settings. So let's be very clear about that.

And I think there is broad consensus.

CAVUTO: All right.

And then, on the hydroxychloroquine issue, if you will indulge me here, now, with the FDA concerned about outside of clinical trials in a hospital, taking this has significant risks, death being one of them, and this VA hospital study that shows that those who took it, a number died.

Now, of course, they were vulnerable amid a suspect group that might have had heart or respiratory issues. But do you think it's a reminder to the president to not tease a magic bullet here or to say, what have you got to lose? For those people with these conditions, the one thing they have to lose is potentially their lives.

Do you think that this puts that issue to bed, or continue to debate it?

MAKARY: Well, sure.

And I think, look, when we saw a tsunami headed our way, people were scrambling, and there was panic to grab it any idea of any kind of hope. And the reason you saw so much enthusiasm around hydroxychloroquine and remdesivir is that those were the only two therapeutics already on the shelf.

CAVUTO: Right.

MAKARY: There's a lot more promising stuff that's not FDA-approved.

But I think this hyper-enthusiasm came around the fact that those were already on the shelf and were being floated out there. I think any benefit we see from remdesivir will be small. It may be there.

Hydroxychloroquine, generally speaking, from the data now, I don't recommend patients take it. Sure, if you're on a ventilator, maybe you could throw the kitchen sink at the patient and try everything, if the patient wants, on a compassionate basis.

But absolutely nobody outside of a hospital setting or a trial should be taking hydroxychloroquine. There are dangerous arrhythmias that can occur in those patients.

CAVUTO: Real quickly, Doctor, do you think we will have a spike in cases when people start slowly returning to work? Is that unavoidable, or how do you see it?

MAKARY: I think we can manage a continual reduction, while going back to work, because we have already seen it in the grocery industry.

Grocery stores have been functioning with precautions, and other businesses can follow their lead. And we can -- if we're careful, can watch that -- that the burden of this virus go down.

The key is, we have got to be ready for the fall. If we see some cases in the fall, we don't want hysteria. We want people to know, it may be partly seasonal, and that we can address it the same way that we will be going back to work cautiously.

CAVUTO: Doctor, thank you very much. Good catching up with you, getting straight on some of this stuff.

We wanted to give you the pro and the con views on this from the medical community. That's what we do. No politics, just life or death.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GIANNO CALDWELL, FOX NEWS POLITICAL ANALYST: We're asking the homeless population in this area, what are you doing to stay safe from the coronavirus?

Do you know what the coronavirus is?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I don't.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, it's supposedly said that it was some kind of virus discovered by a scientist, kind of doctor or so, and they named it either after him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It lays in the air, in your face. So we have to take care of ourselves. If not, we're going to die.

CALDWELL: How do you get your news regarding the coronavirus?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I probably listen to it probably on the radio, people walking past with a radio, or I watch the TV.

CALDWELL: So, you're not getting any cohesive information? You're just kind of word of mouth and maybe you hear a radio or a TV, where they may mention it here or there?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAVUTO: Gianno Caldwell talking to a good chunk of the homeless population in California, largely oblivious to the seriousness of what's happening with coronavirus, and very, very vulnerable to the virus itself.

He decided, obviously, to them directly to get a sense of where they're coming from and what they know about this.

And Gianno, it was riveting, but very unsettling. What did you find out?

CALDWELL: Yes, I went there with the interest of learning, what do they know about the coronavirus, how do they get their information regarding the coronavirus, and if they were aware of the thousands of beds the Governor Newsom Has said are available for the homeless in the state of California.

And I was very shocked and surprised to see that many were completely uninformed, and the fact that this is the most vulnerable population in the state of California, because of the conditions in which they live in.

If you look at the video, which is on the screen, you see a lot of them live around trash, and some of them do drugs. And there's a lot of mental issues among this population, not only that, that they're vulnerable and they live in clusters. They still go on the street and ask for money from individuals on a day-to-day basis.

So there's the very real possibility of them, if they have it, to contrast that with individuals who are going about their daily lives.

CAVUTO: You know, the homeless situation is out of control.

You go to cities like L.A. and San Francisco. I have seen in Seattle and elsewhere. So it's a huge problem. And I'm not blaming any city or mayor or governor or population there.

But when you see such large groups of people, just by the nature of crowding themselves into areas and tents, none of them within the distancing measures that average folks are told to adhere to, and most unaware of how serious this thing is, you got to wonder whether we don't get it under control there, it's going to be a potential out-of-control problem there and maybe everywhere.

CALDWELL: Absolutely. Absolutely.

And there's about 5,000 people that live in the Skid Row area, among a 50- block radius. You talk about in the state of California over 151,000 homeless individuals in the state of California, a quarter of the nation's population of those that are homeless.

This is a very, very serious issue. And, as you mentioned, a lot of the things that I have heard Mayor Eric Garcetti say, Gavin Newsom about there's going to be social distancing on Skid Row, which is where I'm just a matter of a couple of miles away from right now, I haven't seen.

I didn't see any -- any way for them to wash their hands. And the reason why some of them even had on masks in that situation is because some of them, I was surprised to learn, didn't know about it, is because they go into the homeless shelters. And the homeless shelters require them to wear the mask before they come in.

But worse is, one homeless person told me, when it's 10:00 at night, they all take the mask off, which means, what's the point of you wearing the mess more in the beginning, because you may still contract that?

So, if anyone wants to see the full video, you can look at my Instagram or Twitter, @GiannoCaldwell, and see the full video my interviews.

CAVUTO: All right, "Taken for Granted" is the bestselling book.

CALDWELL: Thank you.

CAVUTO: Aptly, really, it addresses this situation, "Taken for Granted," and we forget.

Gianno Caldwell, thank you very, very much.

Stick around. We will have more after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: Peter Navarro played hardball with the Chinese, because you couldn't trust them, he said. He wanted to verify everything, and now all these discoveries about what they knew and maybe didn't know about the coronavirus.

He will be my special guest tomorrow on "Cavuto Live," 10:00 a.m. Eastern time. Also going to be hearing from the former BP CEO John Browne on this oil shock that stabilized by week's end, but I got to tell you, a lot of folks are still nervous that oil is slip-sliding away.

It may be good for you at the gas pump, maybe not so good for the U.S. economy. We shall see.

We will see you tomorrow.

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