Ellen apologizes to staff

This is a rush transcript from “Media Buzz," August 9, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

HOWARD KURTZ, Fox NEWS ANCHOR: This is MEDIA BUZZ. I'm Howard Kurtz. Ahead, Greg Gutfeld joins us for some media analysis and a bit of personal advice. President Trump was getting decidedly mixed coverage for authorizing new Coronavirus aid by executive order, has also been pushing hard for the nation's schools to reopen despite the pandemic.

And he's drawing plenty of media flak based on these comments to Fox and Friends.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, UNITED STATES PRESIDENT: This thing is going away. It will go away, like, things like go away. And my view is that schools should be open. If you look at children, children are almost, and I would almost say definitely, but almost immune from this disease.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why would he lie to you about it? Why would he put you in the position to expose your kid that way? How can we deal with a president who lies so much?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president of the United States, who is charged with setting some level of standards for when kids go back to school, opined about his perspective, which is kids are less vulnerable. To shut that down is to shut down one side of the conversation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it helpful for the president of to tell parents that children are nearly immune from this and then have it factually spreading child to child in places like Mississippi where they've the opened the doors to their schools.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think the president is making clear that overall the average age of those who pass from Coronavirus is still at about 78. Over 40 percent of those who have passed away were in long-term facilities or nursing homes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Both Facebook and Twitter took down clips of that interview posted by the Trump campaign, drawing criticism on Fox's early morning show.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely incredible. All of those great doctors in Silicon Valley will decide what is right and what is wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: The pundits are also piling on the president over this exchange with Jonathan Swan of Axios.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How, 1,000 Americans are dying a day?

TRUMP: They are dying. That's true. And you have -- it is what it is. But that doesn't mean we aren't doing everything we can. It's under control as much as can you control it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Joining us now to analyze the coverage, Ben Domenech, founder and publisher of The Federalist, Kristen Soltis Anderson, a Fox News contributor and co-founder of Echelon Insights, and Joe Trippi, a Democratic strategist and host of the new podcast, That Trippi Show. All right, Ben, is it fair for the media to rip the president for saying students, kids are almost immune, given that the CDC says children under 18 account for 7.4 percent of confirmed virus cases.

BEN DOMENECH, THE FEDERALIST: I think the president obviously was talking about the death rates that we're seeing among young children, which are incredibly low. And that's a very good thing. I think that obviously in this situation, he used the word immune as opposed to vulnerable or something like that. When we see the case counts that are there, obviously, children are not immune to this disease.

But they are not vulnerable to it the way that the elderly are, those with significant health risks. That being said, the most concerning part of what you just said there in your opening there is the aspect of Facebook and Twitter, major media outlets. We do have to think of them as media entities, taking down clips of the presidential interview.

To me, that's the most disturbing part of the story. Whatever you think of the president, whatever you think of his politics, the people deserve to be able to hear what their president has to say. And when he says something like that, even if people are fact checking it, even if they're saying, you know, that's not true. There's different aspects of this that we have look at.

It is extremely troubling to me that any kind of entity, especially one with the kind of power that Facebook has, the kind of power that Twitter has, would eliminate that type of interview from the public eye as if it's something that needs to be shut down or eliminated from the conversation, as opposed to having more sunlight on it.

KURTZ: What do you think of that point, Kristen? Because Facebook and Twitter say that it violates their policies against COVID-19 misinformation. But as you know and as our audience knows, Trump and conservatives generally have long accused those two Silicon Valley giants being biased against the right.

KRISTEN SOLTIS ANDERSON, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: I think there should be a higher bar from when it comes to taking something down that the president himself said, because there is inherently a news-worthiness to that. On the other hand, what I really wish is that news about whether this disease is particularly a threat to certain populations was coming from our nation's scientific advisors.

And this is why, for instance, the controversy over Dr. Birx over the last week where you first had Nancy Pelosi criticizing her. And then you had Donald Trump criticizing her. Folks don't want to hear from politicians. They want to hear from those who are scientific experts. And they want to hear the truth, so that they can gauge for themselves truly what is the risk to say their school age children. I think that's the most important thing we need to take away from all this.

KURTZ: But Trippi, for the president's detractors in the media, almost immune is kind of upbeat talk he often engages in when it comes to COVID- 19. But for the president's supporters, they feel he's countering a lot of media exaggeration about the magnitude of this pandemic.

JOE TRIPPI, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Right. But if you actually listen to the whole piece there, he starts to say, again, it's going to disappear. It's going to disappear. This goes all the way back to there's 15 cases. And it's going to go to zero soon. And he can't -- and I think the key word was immune. I mean, they're not immune.

And there's no scientific group or medical professionals out there who think -- who will make the case that children are immune. And further, I think it is important for Facebook and Twitter and these social media -- when you start to use things like it -- children are immune and that starts to move. There's a lot of damage that can be done from making that argument.

So I think it's -- I do agree that it's problematic that that happened. And I think it's something we all need to -- why shows like this, we should be talking about whether it was the right move or not for the social media firms to do. But there is a real question there when you have that kind of information flowing from the president of the United States, telling parents their children are immune from this, that's --

(CROSSTALK)

KURTZ: The media can certainty critique that. Let me move on because the U.S. has now passed 5 million cases, 160,000 plus deaths. On CNN last week, Deborah Birx said the virus was extraordinarily widespread, rural and urban areas combined, prompting a presidential tweet. So crazy Nancy Pelosi said horrible things about Dr. Deborah Birx, going after her because she was too positive on the very good job we're doing.

And he went on to say in order to counter, Nancy, Deborah took the bait and hit us, pathetic. But Ben, Dr. Birx didn't criticize the job the administration was doing. She just painted a much more dire portrait of the state of the virus. And that causes the president's media critics to say he's denying reality.

DOMENECH: Howie, I'm not trying to drill your show. But what Joe just said there needs to be responded to. It sounded to me like he was endorsing exactly the kind of censorship I said was so problematic. He said it was dangerous for the president to be spreading that kind of information. I don't think that that's true at all.

I think that this is a situation where you want more sunlight on these things. Joe, I mean, are you actually saying that this was a good thing that they took down what the president of the United States was saying?

TRIPPI: That's not what I said at all. I said -- I thought --

(CROSSTALK)

DOMENECH: It sounded like you were saying that.

TRIPPI: Well, it sounds like a lot of things. That's not what I was saying. I was saying that I think it's a good thing for this show to talk about -- to have shows like this that talk about that, because I think it is -- there's a big -- it's both danger -- there's danger on both sides of what you're saying and what the president said. And I'm agreeing with what you're saying.

But I understand why people -- we need to have this debate and discussion about what this president says and the way the media is responding to it. And again, social media, you're right. They are, you know, driving information. So they have a bigger responsibility, and maybe it is for -- but they --

(CROSSTALK)

KURTZ: Joe, I've got to move on. Sorry to cut you off there. Kristen, so now you have, at different times, the president of the United States publicly disagreeing with both Anthony Fauci and Deborah Birx. Now, does that suggest to you -- does it have an impact on public opinion or do you think the media are just playing up these feuds perhaps a bit too much?

SOLTIS ANDERSON: I wish folks wouldn't play up these feuds, because it's really important that there be a good relationship between the president and his scientific advisors. And I know that the president watches a lot of shows like this. He watches a lot of news. He tries to take it all in. And when there are attempts to sort of stoke these divisions, I think it's bad for the country.

I want our country's scientific advisors to be in the driver's seat on this to have the ability to say candidly what they think and to not worry that if they come out and say that the Coronavirus is spreading widely, because that's what their data shows, that the president will be mad. Or if they say they think the government is doing a good job at X, Y, and Z, that the Speaker of the House will come for them. I think we need to let our scientific advisors do their job, which is focus on the science.

KURTZ: All right. Let me get to yesterday's news as I alluded to at the top. The president yesterday announcing the executive order to provide $400 a week in jobless benefits, the $600 a week had expired. Congress was unable to come to the agreement. And let's take a look at a question that he got at that presser at his New Jersey golf club.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why did you decide on $400 when previously families were receiving 600? That will be a hardship for many. What do you say to that?

TRUMP: This is not a hardship. This is the money that they need. This is the money they want. And this gives them a great incentive to go back to work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Ben, the president also announcing a temporary payroll tax cut for people making under 100k. Don't media conservatives oppose unilateral action and executive orders of this magnitude by presidents?

DOMENECH: I think they generally do. But I also think that in this circumstance, you know, the situation that was facing conservatives was one where House Democrats were going to demand everything and the kitchen sink in terms of getting this type of aid out there to folks as they need it. They were using the crisis to achieve other aims.

In terms of the $400 that the president's talking about, 300 from the Feds and $100 theoretically from the states. He's pulling on this disaster relief money that has not yet been spent. That's something that I think, you know, will go to help folks that -- about the question of whether $400 is enough. We actually saw personal household incomes increase in the last quarter, according to analysis by Justin Wolfers.

And he was a left of center economist, which is something that is, I think, indicative that perhaps this is a level of money that will aid people but also maybe not prevent them from trying to go out and find work again.

KURTZ: You know, Joe, the headline on liberal Huffington Post is Trump relief de-funds social security and Medicare, because that's where the payroll tax goes. On the other hand, he's just deferring it. People will still have to pay these taxes -- but after January. But while the pundits debate the legalities and the constitutionality of all this, I bet the average person says, look.

Congress couldn't do anything. They're going home. At least, the president acted.

TRIPPI: I'm sure that's what the president wants to put out there by doing these executive orders. But the fact remains. He could have pushed Republicans to go for 600. He doesn't -- they don't think that's enough. I mean, they think that's too much. On the payroll tax cut, there's not even a guarantee that people who -- this deferral of it that they won't have to pay the whole thing next year.

I mean, there's -- it's just a bunch of holes. It's a gimmick. It was just -- it literally, by executive order, trying to act like he was in charge and trying to do things, he -- the big question is legally whether he can even do it.

KURTZ: Well, that may end up being tied up in the courts. But gimmick or not, a lot of people are hurting. Let me get a break. Ahead, Greg Gutfeld of The Five says what's on his mind. When we come back, as President Trump looks to add an earlier debate, some media liberals say Joe Biden should skip the debates all together. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ: President Trump is demanding a fourth debate with Joe Biden in early September. But the debate commission has rejected that request. Now, the move comes as some media liberals are pushing the notion that Biden should just blow-off the fall debates. Veteran journalist Elizabeth Drew joined the chorus the other day, writing in the New York Times that presidential debates should be scrapped because they're mostly about scripted one-liners.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's no surprise a growing list of Democrats are urging Biden to skip the presidential debates. Now, even Clinton's former White House spokesperson is begging Biden not to show.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He will take the truth and then destroy it. And Biden will be in the position of correcting him over and over and over again. I don't think he should give him that platform.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: That was former Clinton spokesman, Joe Lockhart. And Ben, isn't it a bit hypocritical for pundits to say Biden doesn't need to do these debates? Tom Friedman recently wrote in the New York Times. Biden shouldn't debate unless Trump releases his tax returns. Some of these people, their heads would have exploded if Trump had refused to debate Hillary in 2016.

DOMENECH: This is a huge roll of the dice. And I think that a lot of people are not looking at this moment seriously. They're assuming that Biden can just skate by. They look at the poll numbers. And they think that he's far enough ahead. They don't want him to trip over anything or have any gaffes. And so they're engaging in this ludicrousness as if the president of the United States needs to be given a platform by being put on stage with his opponent.

I think that in this case, ultimately, debates will happen. But the fact that this is getting so much attention and so much serious consideration among people who we are supposed to treat as if they are intelligent commentators just tells you how nervous they are about the way that these present a potential minefield for Joe Biden.

KURTZ: Kristen, the Biden campaign says he'll be there. I just want to be clear about that. But is there any other interpretation of the advice from some of these liberal pundits, other than we want Joe to win, and we don't want to take any risk that he might turn in a bad performance?

SOLTIS ANDERSON: I think the risk of Joe Biden going to a debate, giving a bad performance, is in some ways less than the risk if he just doesn't show up at all, that he's throwing away one of his potentially strongest campaign attributes with swing voters, which is that he wants to be the guy who will be the return to normalcy.

Trump is the disruptor who does things very differently. But that Joe Biden is let's go back to the way things normally are. If you suddenly decide that the debates are just a thing you don't want to do, that's a massive disruption to the campaign trail. It's a big disruption of people's ability to get information about how these two men, head to head, square off on key issues.

I think it would be a huge disaster for the Biden campaign, if they sat out all of these debates. America needs to see who their choices are.

KURTZ: Well, I think we'll all agree on that point. I mean, the Trump campaign is setting the expectations so low for Joe Biden, suggesting he can't even string a couple sentences together. But Jason Miller, the campaign advisor, telling the Washington Post he's a pretty good debater, I think they're trying to shift that.

Joe, the president in asking for this fourth debate, it's actually -- he has a decent rationale. He says all this early mail-in voting, which of course he opposes, that, you know, many people will have voted by late September. Let's do it in early September, but the media portraying this as a move by a nervous incumbent.

TRIPPI: Well, both those things are probably true. If I were the president, I would want more debates. And so -- I mean, whenever you're behind, that's what you want to try to do. Get the person who is ahead of you into more debates. And hope, by the way, you know, that Joe Biden will gaffe in one of them. But look, the reality is there are going to be three debates.

Joe Biden is going to show up. I think Miller's -- whoever it was. I can't remember now. They are clearly shifting from lowering expectations on Joe Biden, which was a massive mistake that they've done, to realizing better raise that bar. Because right now, if Biden goes in there and just strings sentences together the whole way, he will have beaten the Trump expectations game that they've set.

(CROSSTALK)

KURTZ: All right. Let me get to Ben now. So Joe Biden has confirmed he's not going to Milwaukee to give his acceptance speech. He'll do it in Delaware. And President Trump says he'll probably give his, quote, "acceptance speech" at the White House, perhaps in the East Wing. The media are being highly critical to saying the people's house should not be used at a partisan backdrop, your take?

DOMENECH: Well, I thought that Karen Attiah of the Washington Post made a pretty good argument that this was OK, and particularly given the context of the moment, where you have all of the risks entailed with a global pandemic, of traveling somewhere and all the logistics related to it. President Reagan obviously announced his run for re-election from the White House. I do think that there's a way to make that work.

But, you know, one of the real challenges that we have, Howie, is, you know, in covering a campaign that is really a non-campaign. I don't know if Joe Biden's going to have any campaign events between now and Election Day. I don't know if the debates might be the only thing that he does. And so it's a very odd situation where we're working in the dark, and we don't have the normal things to look at.

A lot of people made hay about the fact that Hillary Clinton, you know, didn't go to Wisconsin in the 2016 election. This is a situation where, you know, you may not have Joe Biden going to any of these major key swing states. And that ends up being something that makes all of this harder to predict.

KURTZ: It might face a little bit of media criticism if he does that. Kristen, the Commission on Presidential Debates picks the moderators. But the Trump campaign publicly released a list of 24 names that they would like to see. It may include ABC's David Muir and CBS' Norah O'Donnell, but also, 10 people who work for Fox, though no Chris Wallace.

Should the campaigns have input as to who gets to moderate these all- important debates?

SOLTIS ANDERSON: I think campaigns will inevitably want to shape this to be more favorable to them. But remember, there's another campaign involved that also has to agree to participate. I've got to say, out of that whole list of the folks that they said they want to have moderate that debate, Dagen McDowell of Fox. I would watch that debate and love every minute of it. I have no doubt that she would leave no stone unturned.

KURTZ: All right. You've cast your vote. I want to thank everybody here. Kristen Soltis Anderson, Joe Trippi, Ben Domenech, thanks very much for coming by this Sunday. Up next, the president's threat to ban TikTok has taken some strange twists and upset millions of teenage girls. Charlie Gasparino is on deck.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, guys. It's Charlie. And I'm super, super excited to share with you my first ever nail polish collection.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: That's Charli D'Amelio, a high school student with 75 million followers on TikTok. But the popular Chinese-owned app is in jeopardy after President Trump said he would outright ban it, then seemed to authorize a sale to Microsoft, but now has thrown a monkey wrench into a possible deal, joining us now from Connecticut, Charlie Gasparino, senior correspondent at Fox Business Network.

And Charlie, the media rather stunned when the president made the argument that the U.S. government should get a substantial cut of any sale between Microsoft and TikTok. Fair for journalist to say this is unusual or even unprecedented.

CHARLIE GASPARINO, FOX BUSINESS SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: It's both. It's unusual and unprecedented. Listen, Howie, if you look at his executive order, which he issued just a couple days ago. That's essentially banning TikTok if they cannot find a U.S. buyer within the next 45 days. It made no mention of this investment banking fee. So it looks like he backed off that. I mean, that's typical Trump.

I mean, I think he was just, like, blowing smoke, whatever was off the top of his head. He was, like, listen. I'm making this deal happen, why can't the U.S. government benefit directly. The U.S. government will -- and I think some people went to him and made this argument to him -- will benefit directly. Because if Microsoft buys this, it is a U.S. company that will benefit from Chinese -- from technology that began in China, it's a big thing for Microsoft.

And we should point out that social media is the way news is being transacted these days. You know, this is a big thing for a U.S. company to get a foothold into something that's like Twitter, only it is video, right? It's a Twitter video, essentially.

KURTZ: Well, for those who don't know, TikTok has a huge and passionate following, especially among teenage and preteen girls, including a member of my family, so I know a lot about this. I mean, they dance. They lip sync. They do special effects. They make videos with their dogs. And so I imagine the president came up under a lot of pressure not to just ban this outright, especially with a couple thousand U.S. jobs at stake as well.

GASPARINO: Yeah. I think that's definitely in the mix. I think Microsoft, when the CEO of Microsoft, Mr. Nadella, went to -- when he spoke with Trump. I think he made that point that this is good for the U.S. if he can buy this thing. By the way, the Microsoft deal is no done deal. I mean, this is a heavy lift. They have to literally buy the company or at least a big chunk of the company.

It's unclear if they're going just for the U.S. or the whole thing. And then they have to make sure it's secure that there's no Chinese fingerprints in it. And they have to convince the Trump administration of that. Listen, there's lots of talk of other companies interested in TikTok. And they clearly are -- we've reported Facebook, Google.

The Journal came out today and said Tik -- Twitter had a conversation with them. The best company that's positioned to buy them, just so you know, for all intents and purposes, Microsoft, they have the money. They have the technology. They can do this deal. And still, that's going to be a heavy lift. I find it fascinating that Legacy Media is not in on this.

Listen, I do know this about TikTok. My 12-year-old niece loves it. Your kids may love it. But a lot of people are looking at this.

(CROSSTALK)

GASPARINO: As a way, yes, as a way to deliver news. It's going to be a way to deliver news. It does have potential beyond, you know, generation z-ers if that's what they're called. And I think --

(CROSSTALK)

GASPARINO: -- Legacy Media. They should be playing in this and they're not.

KURTZ: Well, most of the people on TikTok are not interested in politics. But some of them are, and clearly that could change. So just briefly, do you see legitimate national security concerns here? The president worrying about Beijing getting access to data from users, or is this largely about being tough on China in an election year?

GASPARINO: Listen. The Chinese are always looking for a leg up. I mean, if you were -- if someone told you that Chinese are trying to use the data for surveillance purposes, I mean, would you really argue that point? I think he's on pretty strong grounds of that. How much of if -- they do, I can't tell you. TikTok says they don't, their servers are in the U.S.

I think the bigger point here is that this is a win for America if Microsoft can do this deal, because we would -- the president essentially would be arranging a transaction. He doesn't deserve an investment banking fee to help a major U.S. company become stronger. And that's an economic plus. And again, the other story is media, Howie.

You know, in the old days, The New York Times should be putting a bid in.

Obviously, they don't have the currency to. It just tells you that media, social media, the way media is going to be transacted is essentially now the province of the big tech companies. And that tells you a lot about what's going on.

KURTZ: Huge. Got to go. Got to go. Charlie, great to see you.

Coming up, a media eruption over the president bringing religion into his latest attack on Joe Biden.

Greg Gutfeld weighs in on that and much more, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ: President Trump made his most personal attack yet on Joe Biden, one that invokes religion, and much of the mainstream media are calling it an act of desperation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He's following the radical left agenda. Take away your guns, destroy your Second Amendment, no religion, no anything, hurt the bible, hurt God. He's against God.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Joining us now from New York, Greg Gutfeld, co-host of the "The Five," host of the "Greg Gutfeld Show," and now the author of "The Plus: Self-Help for People Who Hate Self-Help."

GREG GUTFELD, FOX NEWS HOST: Mm-hmm. KURTZ: And Greg, I understand President Trump charging Joe Biden will take your guns away. That is a pretty standard republic attack line. But the media are calling out the president for Joe Biden often talks about his Catholic faith, being against God. Biden has called this attack shameful. Are the media on Biden's side on this one?

GUTFELD: Of course. Any time you invoke any kind of religious criticism, you're going to get a lot of handwringing in the media, which is hilarious given the overwhelming agnostic nature of the media.

The media can mock Catholicism, any kind of Christianity, but if somebody they don't like does it, then all of a sudden it's sacrilegious.

Look, the one thing you know about Trump is that he's always reciprocal in insult, meaning if you come after him, he's going to come after you. We have been doing this for four years. The idea of continually of being surprised by his insults is like waking up every morning and being surprised by a sunrise.

Joe Biden had criticized Trump, I don't know, three or four weeks ago, maybe longer on religion and him being maybe phony and not being able to hold the bible.

So, it's just fair game. You're putting Biden out there. He's going to be a target. I can't -- my hands cannot be wringed over this, Howie.

KURTZ: All right.

(LAUGHTER)

KURTZ: I get your point. Look, the media often saying President Trump said or did something erratic. So for example, he's got this crusade against mail-in voting, which the president portrays as potentially --

GUTFELD: Right.

KURTZ: -- leading to fraud or chaos. But then Trump comes out and says, well, but mail voting is OK in Florida. He's asked why. Well, they've got a good Republican governor. And the media pounce on him. GUTFELD: Yeah. The -- I think the wise way of portraying this problem is it's about capacity and not corruption. Compare mail-in voting to how you had to deal with hospitals before the pandemic, which means you need to flatten the curve, i.e., ease the burden, and we haven't done that.

And so everybody has a right to be concerned. Maybe Florida is ahead of the game because they've done this more often. But the fact is we're not ready. We haven't flattened the burden for the postal service. It's a capacity issue. Everybody has a right.

And Democrats should be worried, too. If they're not going to have -- if you're not going to have results on election day or a week after election day, we're heading into mass chaos, and we should all admit that, that this could be really, really bad. So we have to find the most effective way to deal with this election.

KURTZ: Yeah, that's troubling. I doubt we'll know who the next president is going to be after election night and morning.

GUTFELD: Yes.

KURTZ: Look, as you know, as everybody knows, the press has been hammering the president's handling of the coronavirus, especially since the surge that began in June and July.

So for example, on "Meet the Press" today, Chuck Todd said that he's a president who has chosen to deny, dismiss, and distract for too long on COVID-19. What do you make of the constant pounding? I mean, I think one thing that's fair to say is that any president would be dealing -- would find great difficulty in dealing with a pandemic of this magnitude. GUTFELD: Yeah. Is Chuck still on TV? I can't -- I don't think this has worked out too well for him. Look, the media portrays everything Trump does as evil. So you cannot take their assessment of his COVID response seriously, especially when they said nothing at the start, from CNN to The Washington Post.

They all played down the pandemic early on, comparing it to the flu and so on, and they offered no path forward. So, their armchair quarterbacking needs to be dismissed. You can't -- also, you can't compare our plan to the responses of other countries because, remember, we did the opposite of an autocracy. Fifty states got to figure it out on their own. Yet the media still cause him autocratic.

So the problem here, bottom line, the media cannot handle more than one data point. So they look at cases, but they don't look at age, death rates, population density, island versus not island, or living situations in general. So you cannot take them seriously.

This is a once in a lifetime event. And I think we achieved what we set out to achieve, which was flatten the curve and try to control the death rate.

KURTZ: When you call armchair quarterbacking, a lot of people would call journalistic scrutiny. But let me give you a quick one here, and that is --

GUTFELD: Not me.

KURTZ: -- the press loves to accuse the president of shattering norms. So, he's going to give the speech probably -- his acceptance speech at the White House. He did a press conference at his New Jersey golf club yesterday. People said he shouldn't be doing that. Is everything get dialled up to 11 when it comes to this president? GUTFELD: Yeah. But the response from the media has been dialled up to 433. Their hair is on fire. You can actually see their hair from space because it's like a giant wildfire. You could see it from Saturn. When your hair is on fire for four years, no one is listening to you.

The greatest thing that Trump did was he exposed what the media is really like, that they're an emotional -- they're an emotional moving tantrum. And when things don't go their way, they come after you.

KURTZ: He said emotionally. All right, let me ask you about your book, "The Plus," because you talk about --

GUTFELD: No, I'm the opposite of emotion. I'm the opposite of emotion. How dare you, Howie.

KURTZ: Thank you for correcting me on that. All right, so in your book, you talk about --

(LAUGHTER)

KURTZ: -- brainwashing yourself into better behavior. I want to ask you about one line where you say, resist the media's command to expand destructive narratives. So here's my question. How do you do that?

GUTFELD: Right.

KURTZ: Why do the media push destructive narratives? And are you and I and everybody else part of that? GUTFELD: I would say that right now, the content, especially with the growth of social media, is now discontent. If you can get people upset, they tend to click more. So a lot of the stories are framed in a way to kind of upset you.

And I think that Fox is the least offender because we've always been pretty -- we are obviously fair and balanced. And we're also a very -- we're a positive -- we believe in the American people. I do not feel that way about the media, the rest of the mainstream media.

I think they -- the underlying profit model is discontent and divisiveness. If we were at each other's throat, the media can maintain its stranglehold on us.

But the moment that we get rid of this identity politics and the intersectionality and kind of bond together, the media would lose its power, which is why they have to keep pitting us against each other. One you're aware of this, once you understand this, it becomes very obvious.

KURTZ: All right. I think all Fox's critics are writing to you right now on Twitter. I love this line from your publisher. Greg Gutfeld wants to be your --

GUTFELD: They can't write. Howie, they can't write.

KURTZ: Greg Gutfeld wants to be your new guru and he hates himself for it. Well, you can hate yourself all the way to the bank (ph).

Greg, good to see you. Thanks for joining us.

GUTFELD: Same here, bud.

KURTZ: After the break, Joe Biden gives a rare interview and talks his way into trouble. That and more in our campaign buzz segment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KURTZ: Joe Biden doesn't do many interviews these days. But things got rather tense during a discussion with CBS's Errol Barnett for the National Association of Black Journalists, who asked whether he had taken a cognitive test. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No, I haven't taken a test. Why the hell would I take a test? Come on, man. That's like saying to you, before you got on this program, if you take a take a test whether you're taking cocaine or not. What do you think, huh? Are you a junkie?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Joining us now, Mara Liasson, national political reporter for NPR and a Fox News contributor. Mara, it seems like Joe Biden really went off on this reporter. Why didn't this get Trumpian levels of coverage? I would argue that the president got a thousand times more attention from mispronouncing Yosemite.

MARA LIASSON, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER FOR NPR: Yeah. I think that this did get some coverage. But don't forget, there were other Biden gaffes that were competing with this one for information -- for attention.

Lulu Garcia-Navarro from NPR also on that panel of Black and Hispanic journalists asked him what about openings to Cuba, that's something that Latino voters in Florida really care about. And he said, well, unlike African-Americans, Latino voters are not a monolith, they have a diversity of views. So, very similar.

These gaffes share a couple traits. They're always unprompted, gratuitous, and they are usually about African-Americans. I mean, going all the way back to Barack Obama being clean and articulate. This is a theme.

The question I have is -- well, of course, how much attention they are going to get, because Trump dominates the media narrative so completely and utterly. Joe Biden just kind of gets left behind. But also --

KURTZ: That was my point.

LIASSON: -- are they going to matter? You know, are they going to matter? In 26 --

KURTZ: You know, whether they matter or not -- let me jump in. Let me jump in.

LIASSON: Yeah.

KURTZ: Whether they matter or not depends in part on how much attention the media devotes to such things. The example that you gave --

LIASSON: Yeah.

KURTZ: -- the second example about the Latino community --

LIASSON: Yeah.

KURTZ: -- Biden had to apologize for it. So my question to you --

LIASSON: Yeah.

KURTZ: -- my follow-up question is: Is this part of the reason that maybe his advisors are kind of keeping him off the interview circuit?

LIASSON: There's no doubt that keeping a low profile has worked for him because so far, this election has been a referendum on the incumbent. That doesn't mean it's going to continue. Donald Trump is trying hard and spending tens of millions of dollars to turn this race into a binary choice. Maybe it will get there.

But so far -- and I think the pace is quickening. I mean, Biden is now giving more interviews. He interacted with reporters just there and there were two gaffes in that event. Plus, you know, we're going to get to the conventions in September and October.

But the question is, if these gaffes have already been figured into Biden's stock price or not. I think they do get attention. But don't forget, you've got someone who says something outrageous almost every day. That's Trump.

He doesn't make gaffes. He has a kind of different issue. But he dominates the media so completely that I think even though these things are reported about Joe Biden, they just don't get as much traction.

Howie: well, I don't think the former vice president is doing many interviews at all and the contrast here -- LIASSON: No, not as many as Trump. He hasn't sat down with Chris.

KURTZ: I understand, but that's my point.

LIASSON: He hasn't sat down with Jonathan Swan.

KURTZ: That's my point, Mara.

LIASSON: Yeah.

KURTZ: Exactly.

LIASSON: I agree with you, he's not --

KURTZ: He hasn't sat down with Chris Wallace.

LIASSON: But he's doing a little bit more. Yeah, but the minute he came out a little bit more, he made some gaffes. Yeah.

KURTZ: The factual record would support that. All right. Let me ask you the same question I asked Greg Gutfeld. Media are pounding the president for saying Biden is against religion, against God.

Is it taking sides for journalists to point out, one, that Biden has often talked about his Catholic faith, particularly in terms of the family tragedies that he has suffered, and then two, the media say the president is not a regular churchgoer. Is that taking sides?

LIASSON: Geez. I -- you know, I really wish religion would stay -- the personal religious beliefs and practices of candidates would stay out of it. But I think that to say Joe Biden will take away your guns is one thing. To say that Joe Biden will hurt God and is against God, I just think kind of is like flailing.

I think the media was right to point out that that was kind of over the top and to ask why would Trump goes that far.

KURTZ: Well, one of the things that president does is he sometimes uses over-the-top or what can be described as over-the-top rhetoric to get the media to cover it for five days instead of five hours, thereby getting more attention.

All right, I got less than a minute here. Somebody who spent a lot of time at the White House, do you think the media flak is warranted over the president apparently planning to do the acceptance speech, insists no actual commencement in Jacksonville, to do the acceptance speech either from the south lawn or the east wing or wherever? LIASSON: I think the media is right to raise the question where in the White House complex would it be legal to do this. I am sure there are places and the White House will work that out. I don't think it is that big a deal.

KURTZ: But the media are making a kind of a big deal. Never before has this sort of thing --

LIASSON: Some of the media. Some of the media. It is not across the board. But yes, I think that those who are making it into a huge deal are probably like going too far.

KURTZ: Thank you for reminding us that the media are not a monolith. Mara Liasson, NPR, great to see you.

LIASSON: I like to do that. Yeah, thanks.

KURTZ: Thanks very much.

Still to come, Ellen DeGeneres apologizes to her staff, a CNN contributor does an event for Joe Biden, and the passing of a legendary newsman Pete Hamill.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELLEN DEGENERES, AMERICAN COMEDIAN: I don't know if you notice, but it is world kindness day.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: Ellen DeGeneres is having a rough time. Warner Media is conducting an internal probe of allegations, some reported by BuzzFeed, of a toxic work environment and sexual misconduct by two top executives.

Ellen told her staff in a memo that she wanted her show to be "a place of happiness -- no one would ever raise their voice, and everyone would be treated with respect. Obviously, something changed, and I'm disappointed to learn that this has not been the case. And for that, I am sorry."

Ellen plans to return for the fall season but her image of niceness has clearly been marred.

CNN contributor Ana Navarro hosted an event for Joe Biden's campaign in Florida the other day. Navarro, who by the way is supposed to provide republican viewpoint, helped lead a roundtable discussion with a top Biden official and a couple of Democratic lawmakers on the candidate's agenda for the Latino community.

A CNN spokesman told me that Navarro is part of a diverse set of political contributors -- quote -- "Some contributors choose to support candidates at political events or with their wallets. We are transparent about the causes and candidates our contributors will support."

Well, I've been critical of this sort of thing at all the cable networks from time to time and still think it crosses a line.

Pete Hamill, who died this week, was a tabloid titan, former editor of The Daily News, maybe the last of the Jimmy Breslin era of gritty New York columnists, a magazine writer, a novelist, and a celebrity who once dated Jackie O and interviewed John Lennon. But newspapers were in his blood.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE HAMILL, AMERICAN JOURNALIST: Papers gave us a sense of meaning that was a binding element. You could see it on the subway. You were trying to help the new arrivals to understand the city and the older people to understand the new arrivals.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KURTZ: You know, I was lucky to get to know Pete Hamill. The most fun I ever had in journalism was sneaking into The New Pork Post, this is couple of decades ago, very New York thing to do, after a whacky owner named Abe Hirscfeld, just fired Hamill and the rest of the staff.

I watched as dozens of employees cheered and bear hugged Hamill as he led a newsroom occupation, it was coup, installed himself in the editor's office and put out an entire edition, trashing the owner. Pete Hamill, a mentor to generations of journalists, was 85. What a life that he led.

That is it for this edition of MEDIA BUZZ. I am Howard Kurtz. We hope you will also like our Facebook page, where we post my daily columns. Let us continue the conversation on Twitter at Howard Kurtz. Check out my podcast, "Media Buzzmeter." You can subscribe at Apple iTunes, Google podcast or on your Amazon device.

You talk about the power of social media. A couple of students got suspended at a Georgia high school that just reopened, reposting pictures of a very crowded hallway. Almost nobody seems to wear masks. There was such an online uproar that those suspensions have now been lifted and unfortunately nine people have tested positive at that school, kind of an omen as we all going to grapple with as some of the schools in this country struggle with the question of reopening.

Thank you all for watching. We are back here next Sunday, 11:00 Eastern. You know the time. We'll see you then with the latest BUZZ.

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