This is a rush transcript from "The Five," April 1, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Lisa Boothe, Juan Williams, Pete Hegseth, and Tyrus. It's 5 o'clock in New York City, and this is "The Five."
President Trump threatening bold new action in the fight over border security, Trump saying he'll shut down the southern border amid new warnings about a wave of immigrants overwhelming the system. The president already cutting foreign aids to three Central American countries, Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, this weekend.
This comes as border patrol agents expect to see over 100,000 apprehensions in March alone. That's the highest in over a decade. And the custom border patrol commissioner saying the situation is at a breaking point and that he's, quote, never seen anything like this before.
Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen announcing she's ordering hundreds of additional agents to the border to deal with the problem. This latest potential move by President Trump is igniting fierce debate from both sides.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It certainly isn't a bluff. You can take the president seriously. This president is looking at the metrics.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the president says he's going to close the border that is a totally unrealistic boast on his part.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Democrats will not give us additional money to do this thing. Won't give us any additional people, and importantly they will not change the law that is acting as this giant magnet for people from South and Central America to come into this country.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But we're going to do everything we can to stop it. It's totally absurd.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are we supposed to do? You have the Mexican government allowing thousands of people to walk all across Mexico. They provide them busses. They drop them off at the border and they say here, United States, deal with this problem.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
PERINO: Pete, we've got a very serious problem. You have the secretary of homeland security saying, I can't guarantee that I can protect the country. I can't guarantee who's coming in. I -- you have now those border patrol guys saying they've never seen anything like it. They're completely overwhelm. This is a cry for help. And Washington is actually where the problem could be solved but they're throwing up their hands.
PETE HEGSETH, GUEST CO-HOST: But they're throwing up their hands, including former Obama administration officials like Jeh Johnson coming out this weekend saying it is a crisis. A thousand a day when I was the DHS secretary would have been a bad day.
HEGSETH: Now we've got 4,000 a day. Do not call it a crisis is just totally --
PERINO: Even Bernie Sanders did call it a crisis this weekend.
HEGSETH: But they call it a different kind of a crisis in a certain sense. They don't see it as a law and order crisis. They don't see it as a reflection of the fact that this president is serious about this problem and Congress never has been. And why do we keep trying to do things that don't work on the question on aid to Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras.
You have leaders of those countries that are helping to facilitate their citizens to leave those countries through Mexico to our country. Yet, we spend hundreds of millions of dollars -- billions over years trying to fix their governmental structures and their economy so that we don't have this problem.
At what point do you say this aid isn't working? So we're going to curtail it because it's not helping us improve --
PERINO: Juan, two of those governments are center right and are supportive of the United States and -- I don't know. How do you feel about cutting off the aid? Do you think that will actually help us or backfire?
JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: It will backfire tremendously. Look at the percentage of where the money goes, Dana. It's like 40 percent of the money goes to economic aid to try to stabilize and help those economies grow so people can have jobs there.
More than half of the money goes to either law enforcement or crime suppression, in other words dealing with gangs and the like. So, again, that makes people feel safer there, less violent there, less likely to decide that it's worth their time to enter into --
PERINO: But they are leaving in droves.
WILLIAMS: Because, again -- and, you know, Dana's here. She's made this point on the show repeatedly. We need to invest in those countries substantially as a first step to stop people from making that trip. But I would say this. I don't think closing the border is going to help us if the problem is the humanitarian crisis.
I think that more people will come to the border if they say, oh, the borders being closed. The border's closed. And then you're going to have to detain more people. And we know the big problem here, this is what people are talking about, Pete, is that we don't have the facilities or the staff to deal with this --
HEGSETH: Because the Democrats don't want to fund it.
WILLIAMS: They do want to fund it, but they don't want to play what has been Donald Trump's cruel politics of family separation --
PERINO: Let's get Lisa in.
LISA BOOTHE, GUEST CO-HOST: Well, Dana, what I think President Trump is doing right now is trying to put as much pressure on Congress to actually do something because there are easy solutions to try to solve this problem with this influx of Central American seeking asylum in the country.
You can do things like the Flora's Degree. You can close loopholes like loopholes in the 2008 anti-human trafficking law that changes the way -- differentiates the way you treat Central American unaccompanied minors versus those coming from Mexico. There's things Congress can do.
Or look at our asylum and look at the disconnect between the amount of people that pass that initial screening, but just -- really small amount like 9 percent that actually get granted asylum in the courts. But instead, Congress is making the problem worse.
So we see that with the conferee solution that came -- for DHS funding. And essentially what they did is you had Democrats trying to reduce the amount of ICE detention bills. You have the -- tying the hand of President Trump in both funding for a wall in a way that he could build the wall.
And even things like Section 224 which essentially gives deportation immunity to potential sponsors with unaccompanied minors. So instead of helping the situation, Congress has made it worse.
PERINO: Well, that is sometimes the way it works.
TYRUS, GUEST CO-HOST: No, Congress making it worse. What's in that water?
BOOTHE: I know you're shock, Tyrus.
PERINO: OK. What do you think about -- the shutting down of the border. That's a --
TYRUS: Financially it's dangerous for us. But --
TYRUS: -- there's a crisis within a crisis and we don't have enough border patrol agents to cover this. So what we're doing is, is we're taking them away from our sea and airports to -- where we protect around to go to the situation is leading us vulnerable.
And looking -- I was doing some investigating and the hiring process is broken to get these border patrol agents out there. Nine out of ten applicants failed a polygraph, which means there's really -- like if they make -- especially with our veterans.
Veterans a lot of times are turned away because one of the questions is like, have you ever killed anyone? Someone in combat has a combat kill they're automatically disqualified. So getting --
PERINO: Is that right?
TYRUS: According to my source, yes. That's wild to me --
PERINO: We're going to have to look into that --
HEGSETH: We would have to look into that.
(CROSSTALK) PERINO: But -- and also I've heard that the morale for the people that are there is really low.
TYRUS: Well, they're exhausted. And there's some rumors that the last time they're in the big -- during the shutdown they haven't been paid yet, the back hours. So there's a lot of things going on -- a crisis within a crisis.
And on top of that, you know, Congress has to do a lot of things. One, they've got to fix those visa loopholes because most of our illegal immigrants are coming over legally, they're just not going back. So that's another big issue. So there's a lot of things going on.
And on top of all that, speaking of crisis, while we're dealing with all the stuff on our borders, let's not forget our farmers. Let's not forget those floods, like we have a lot of crisis right now that we don't need arguing in politics. We need --
PERINO: Yep. And that money is being voted on today.
WILLIAMS: By the way, you know, just going back to where you started, Tyrus, which was, economically, what an impact this is going to have on commerce, our third-largest trading partners -- Mexico.
HEGSETH: But why are you worried about Mexico?
WILLIAMS: Hang on. Let me finish.
HEGSETH: The point on my focus is on Americans' jobs is being taken away - -
WILLIAMS: But guess what, Pete? It's going to hurt American jobs. It's going to hurt American jobs because people will be put out of work. You're going to lose in terms of skyrocketing prices on cars, alcohol, produce, people are saying in three weeks we're not going to have avocados --
(CROSSTALK) PERINO: It is a big decision. It's not without consequences.
(CROSSTALK) BOOTHE: But this is the frustration of President Trump because -- people acknowledging now that there actually is a crisis on the southern border. Jeh Johnson --
PERINO: We have that, actually. Do you mind if I play that? We have the sound from former DHS Secretary Jeh Johnson.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JEH JOHNSON, FORMER DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: By anyone's definition, by any measure, right now we have a crisis at our southern border. According to the commissioner of CBP, there were 4,000 apprehensions in one day alone this past week, and we're on pace for 100,000 apprehensions on our southern border this month. That is by far a greater number than anything I saw on my watch in my three years as secretary of homeland security.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOOTHE: No, I mean, probably helps to hear from the guy himself. But as he lead out there this is worse -- what he saw when he served as DHS secretary. So I think the fact that he's entering the fray, he's going on TV, he's talking of this crisis, one, is acknowledgment of the fact there're really is a lot going on at the southern border that we need to be paying attention to.
And it lends a lot of credibility because the left and the media cannot say that this is manufactured crisis from President Trump with him weighing in.
WILLIAMS: It's not an invasion.
HEGSETH: It sure is. And we've mentioned -- we've mentioned --
WILLIAMS: It's an invasion?
PERINO: I think a 100,000 people a month is a lot.
TYRUS: I hate the word invasion.
(CROSSTALK) WILLIAMS: Let me tell you, by those standards we are at a low point, Pete --
HEGSETH: They exploit our laws.
WILLIAMS: Pete, I don't know who you're talking about?
HEGSETH: Gang violence, drug violence, human trafficking.
WILLIAMS: Pete, this is --
WILLIAMS: This is demonizing --
HEGSETH: We're not demonizing anybody. Come to our country illegally --
(CROSSTALK) PERINO: One of the best ways to deal with it would be the asylum law.
HEGSETH: You say fine. You're saying fine. Well, fine is not an answer.
WILLIAMS: Wait a second, these people -- most of these people are families and children applying for asylum, that's legal.
(CROSSTALK) PERINO: One of the things that -- and Congress could fix this by the end of the week which is the asylum law piece. That piece of it, we could fix that and then deal with all of these other things and the description and everything. That actually could help everybody including those children who should not be put in that dangerous position. All right --
BOOTHE: Dana for Congress.
PERINO: -- a brand-new fight -- no, never say that again, Lisa. All right. A brand new fight over the Mueller report, the details next.
HEGSETH: Democrats continuing to fume over the Mueller report. Attorney General William Barr said last week that he'll submit the redacted version to Congress by mid-April, but that's not good enough for Democrats. The House Judiciary Committee is planning to vote this week, subpoena the full, un-redacted reports.
Plus, they're still not giving up on their collusion claims. The latest example comes from Congressman.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. JIM HIMES (D), CONNECTICUT: My guess is that when -- when you see the whole report, you will see good reasons, good reasons for why a number of people, a lot of people, were concerned by the possibility since disproved that the Trump campaign was colluding with the Russians.
(END VIDEO CLIP) HEGSETH: President Trump tearing these Democrats to shreds this morning on twitter saying, quote, now that the long awaited Mueller report conclusions have been released, most Democrats and others have gone back to the pre- witch hunt phase of their lives before collusion delusion took over.
Others are pretending that their former hero, Bob Mueller, no longer exist. Juan, I'll ask you which -- is bob Mueller still a hero? Is he a truth teller? Where were you on this status of this report and what it means?
WILLIAMS: I think Bob Mueller is a truth teller. I don't see anybody attacking Bob Mueller. I've seen people disappointed with the findings but that's just politics. I mean, it's just people who had hope that there would be something more condemning of the president and it just wasn't there according -- we don't know about the Mueller report, but according to the letter from the Attorney General Bill Barr.
I will say this, I don't see if there's anything wrong in Jerry Nadler and people in Congress saying we want to see the actual report. I think it's like 80-plus percent of Americans, Republicans and Democrats want to see this report. And certainly is the Congress' responsibility, I mean, the constitution to make every effort to obtain this report and to act it with oversight of the executive branch.
Now, Bill Barr and the executive branch can then say we're not going to respond to this subpoena, in which case it will end up in the third branch of government, the courts, and they'll decide about it --
(CROSSTALK) HEGSETH: Do you need the whole report, every period, every comma --
(CROSSTALK) WILLIAMS: Obviously, you have to have some limits in terms of sources and ongoing investigation. But if you are trusting Bill Barr just on term of his politics to say, oh, this -- you can't say -- people aren't going to buy it. People are going to say, you know what, he got this job because he was so enamored of presidential power, go back to when he was attorney general before.
HEGSETH: Will they accept this? Will they accept this, Dana?
PERINO: Well, here's the thing. I feel like there's no benefit to Bill Barr to mischaracterizing the report. Like, what does he get out of that? Nothing.
And if the report -- if his summary was so off base, I truly believe that Mueller or somebody on his team, presumably, of course, many of them are much more political and left-leaning than Mueller was. Mueller was a Republican. I think that you would have heard something by now.
So I'm not surprised that there's this constitutional dispute. That's very classic. And I have a feeling that the shoe were on the other foot, the parties reversed, would Chaffetz and Gowdy have just said, yeah, OK, we're good here.
PERINO: There's no way they would have done this. So I think, partly, that's politics. But when the report comes out, at that point if the Democrats don't believe it, and if it holds up with what Barr said, then I think they will look ridiculous.
HEGSETH: Right now, Tyrus, they don't believe it. A new Washington Post poll from late-March shows that 63 percent of Democrats do not accept Mueller's findings.
TYRUS: Unfortunately, they're not going to. And we saw this with the Hillary Clinton emails. Didn't matter what the FBI said -- Republican hardliner -- Republican -- lock her up, all that other kind of stuff. It's going to be the same thing on this situation.
If you hate President Trump, you're going to keep hating him. If the report says that there were -- if there was questionable activity but nothing that was strong enough to warrant criminal prosecutions that's going to be, oh, well, he still did something. So it's just like I've said.
Unfortunately, we live in a time where facts don't really mean anything. So, it's going to continue to be that way. If you hate the president, you're going to continue to hate the president. If you support the president, you're going to support the president.
So, it's just -- just the one little page that came out where he said like there wasn't any collusion but it doesn't exonerate him. If you love him, you just read the top part. If you're a Democrat, you read does not exonerate him. And those two headlines went two different directions.
(CROSSTALK) HEGSETH: If sources and methods were a big thing when FISA applications were being released. Democrats were very concerned about them. I've got a whole page here redacted. But suddenly, now, they want every word released of the Mueller report, Lisa.
BOOTHE: Right. And that's not going to happen and that they're going to claim there's some sort of cover up going on. But to Tyrus' point, this is never-ending, just like Democrats didn't accept the results of the 2016 election. They're not going to accept the results of this investigation.
But the Democrats are honest about really getting to the bottom of Russian meddling. Where they would look is the dossier. Because if you look who has the biggest -- or what has had the biggest impact in sowing discord in the country it's not been $300 spent on Pennsylvania, on Facebook ads, or 2000 Wisconsin.
We know that votes weren't changed. That's not what's sowed discord in the country, what did was the dossier. Democrat funded Russian disinformation piece which is essentially what it is. You look at Christopher Steele sources it's former Kremlin intel officers, it's a foreign Russian ministry officer. That is what has caused division in this country.
So we need to get to the bottom of that. And also how it was used by the FBI. And Daniel Hoffman who works here that a, you know, 30-year CIA officer, actually wrote about this in 2018 for the Wall Street Journal which was particularly oppression.
WILLIAMS: So no surprise, but I just see things so differently. I mean, I think with you -- the key --
WILLIAMS: Because the key is what's dividing this country is the fact that we had a foreign government, and this is confirmed by the report, interfered in U.S. election. And secondly, we had a campaign that even if they weren't in a conspiracy with that foreign government --
TYRUS: That's my point.
HEGSETH: That no matter what?
TYRUS: That no matter what --
BOOTHE: I'm sorry, Tyrus' point.
WILLIAMS: By the way, here's the Wall Street Journal poll -- Wall Street Journal-NBC poll this morning, 40 percent, a plurality of Americans, it does not clear Trump. In fact, 30 percent -- an additional 30 percent say they're not sure what it means.
HEGSETH: So when we get the remainder of the report, if it shows that there's no collusion, are you prepared to counsel your fellow Democrats and say move on?
BOOTHE: He already has.
WILLIAMS: And what happens if it says there was a basis for arguing for obstruction. And lots of indicators, as we just heard from that congressman, that in fact, you know, the Trump campaign didn't exactly run to the police and say, hey, these foreign Russians are trying to interfere in our campaign.
BOOTHE: Yeah --
HEGSETH: Tyrus, you're right.
TYRUS: We've got to go.
PERINO: Is anyone actually going to argue with him?
HEGSETH: No, absolutely not. All right --
BOOTHE: I was.
(LAUGHTER) HEGSETH: After accused -- being accused of inappropriate behavior with women, what he's saying coming up next.
WILLIAMS: Joe Biden defending himself after a former Nevada state assemblywoman accused the former vice president of touching her inappropriately five years ago. Biden releasing a statement saying, quote, in my many years on the campaign trail and in public life, I have offered countless handshakes, hugs, expression of affection, support, and comfort, and not once, never, did I believe I acted inappropriately. If it's suggested I did so, I will listen respectfully, but it was never my intention, end quote.
The accuser, Lucy Flores, responding to a statement earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LUCY FLORES (D), FORMER NEVADA STATE ASSEMBLYWOMAN: I've never said that I thought that he was a bad person. I think that for me this and other positions that he's taken are problematic, and that he does not acknowledge that the way in which he treats or at least the way which he's interacted with many women because that was the reason why I decided to say something.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: This is now raising questions about whether or not Joe Biden is fit to run for president. Here are what other 2020 contenders are saying.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I believe Lucy Flores. And Joe Biden needs to give an answer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have no reason not to believe her. People raise issues and they have to address them, and that's what he will have to do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have no reason not to believe Lucy. What this speaks to is the need to fundamentally change the culture of this country.
(END VIDEO CLIP) WILLIAMS: One prominent Democrat is defending joe Biden. Here's Dick Durbin saying the allegation is not disqualifying.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. DICK DURBIN (D), ILLINOIS: I think all of us should take such allegations seriously and with respect. I took Joe Biden's statement to say just that exactly. Certainly, one allegation is not disqualifying but it should be taken seriously.
(END VIDEO CLIP) WILLIAMS: Dana, you know, Lucy Flores says there was nothing that made her felt this was a sexual overture. That it's just Joe Biden. I don't know if you remember that --
PERINO: OK, so why now?
WILLIAMS: Why she's doing it now?
PERINO: Why now? Like, I think it's pretty obvious why now. You know, Biden camp -- Biden does not have a campaign. There's no infrastructure. So the response is lumbering and it's slow footed. And they're also doing it by paper statements. There's nobody on camera to defend him.
And also, there's nobody on his team that can raise questions as to her political motivations, right? So basically by not having a campaign, he benefits by not having any expectations in this Q1 fundraising round that we're expecting -- the deadline was last night at midnight. So he doesn't have a way to respond to attacks.
And the media has mostly given Flores a pass on these questions of her political motivations while everybody else who are his competitors, Klobucher, Bernie, Elizabeth Warren are all saying we have no reason not to believe her. I don't have any reason not to believe her either.
But I would say this, there's a big movement about political Me Too stuff. Why not been -- if this happened five years ago, why not do this when Al Franken was being targeted? Why not to do this back then? Like, why now? Obviously, we all know why.
WILLIAMS: Wait, answer that question.
PERINO: Because she was a member of the Bernie campaign. I guess she's affiliated with -- or support Beto O'Rourke now. And she -- maybe she wants some attention. I don't -- I'm not saying that she didn't feel weird about this. I don't know.
But I've worked in Washington for a long time, been around Joe Biden a few times. I've never have felt in anyway or heard in any way that his way of showing affection, as he calls it, has been inappropriate or people thought that it was sexual.
WILLIAMS: Lisa, do you think this is --
PERINO: If she feels uncomfortable, I mean, OK.
WILLIAMS: Lisa --
PERINO: Are you upset?
HEGSETH: No --
PERINO: Do you agree with me?
HEGSETH: Hundred percent.
PERINO: All right.
BOOTHE: It's a political hit job. That's exactly what it is. That's why the timing is now. It's a political hit job. This is a warning shot to Joe Biden of what he's going to face if he wants to jump in the race.
I've worked on campaigns and on opposition research before. This is exactly what that is. And unfortunately for Joe Biden, there's endless amounts of video and photos of him being quite frankly creepy that are out there. And we've seen before with the Me Too Movement how it's weaponized against political opponents and that's what's going to happen with Joe Biden here.
But even more than this, I don't think Joe Biden is that strong of a candidate to begin with. If you go through his electoral history, he hasn't really had a tough election since his first one in 1972.
He's had two failed presidential bids under his belt. So I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up not even getting into the race.
WILLIAMS: Your turn.
TYRUS: Collusion, collusion, collusion between super left mainstream media and crazy left-wing Democrats. He's not the chosen one. He's not who they want. So first, they went after Bernie with little attacks about -- how Bernie is so squeaky clean. They're like -- there was sexual harassment in his campaign.
And he didn't know about it. So, how can we trust this guy to be our guy. This is what they do, and this is why we talked about this in the back that I'm predicting, anyone want to bet dollar. President Trump is going to end up winning the popular vote in the next election, because of - not because whether he does, because of what the Democratic Party - they cannot open umbrella together as a team. They're going to decide who they want. No disrespect, Biden has every right to run, but they're going to try to run him out, because he's not the one they want.
TYRUS: He's not their narrative. And as long as those decisions, let the people make the decision. You made this mistake with Hillary and Bernie before, but don't make it again.
PERINO: His polling is actually - despite all of these hits and not having a campaign, his polling has actually remained the highest of all of them.
TYRUS: But they will still go after him.
TYRUS: Because he's not the one they picked.
HEGSETH: I'd like to call him Jeb Biden. I think he's the Jeb Bush of this cycle for the Democrats. There is the institution, the Washington types. They like him because he's got big name ID, other than that there is no appetite for Joe Biden. I think the - elected to the left. Does he want every passing day, do I want my defining part? I'm 76-year-old man who has been the Vice President of the United States, do I want to spend the next year and a half of my life apologizing or at least the next year to win the primary, he's apologizing for the 1999 crime bill for--
TYRUS: But here's the double-edged sword.
HEGSETH: For calling the VP, a D.C. guy.
TYRUS: Biden people, Bernie people, if you treat them the way that Bernie was treated last time, they're going to go home and that's why I'm talking about the popular vote goes to Trump, because they're going to go home. They're not going to be like, you know what we're going to join the team. They're going to be like, you know what, you were terrible, our guy, our voting hands are right here. I'll bet, a dollar bet.
WILLIAMS: I'm willing to take the--
TYRUS: All right.
WILLIAMS: Because you know what, I think Democrats are so consistent in saying to pollsters that their number one priority is beating Donald Trump. So, I don't think ...
HEGSETH: If that was so, then they would choose Joe Biden.
WILLIAMS: No. Wait a second.
HEGSETH: But they won't choose him.
WILLIAMS: That's what Dana just told you that the numbers are consistent.
HEGSETH: But that's not what they're more obsessed with.
WILLIAMS: That he's far in the lead.
HEGSETH: They're more obsessed with what's your gender, what's your race.
WILLIAMS: No, I don't think so.
HEGSETH: How much you hate Trump.
TYRUS: The wrong--
WILLIAMS: But I tell you, I'm surprised that THE FIVE or at least the four of THE FIVE, because you guys are actually defending Joe Biden.
TYRUS: Because wrong is wrong.
PERINO: So, you try to be consistent here.
WILLIAMS: Yes, OK. Right. But remember--
TYRUS: You're not defending him?
TYRUS: Where are we, Bizarre world. April Fools America. April Fools.
WILLIAMS: Remember when it was Al Franken, and Al Franken the allegation--
PERINO: We defended him.
WILLIAMS: Some people on Republican side--
TYRUS: I know I'm sitting in Greg's chair, but I'm Tyrus.
WILLIAMS: Pushed and then the Republican side not only pushed.
TYRUS: We don't know what he did in here.
WILLIAMS: But then you had a lot of women on the Democratic side who said you've got to go. And Franken is gone.
PERINO: No, but also there is a lot of Democratic women who won't give any money to Kirsten Gillibrand.
HEGSETH: Democrats called for Al Franken to resign.
WILLIAMS: Because of what, Pete? Republicans who were saying, if you are going to have one standard for Donald Trump and not apply it to Democrats, then you are a hypocrite.
BOOTHE: Can I - all we know--
HEGSETH: Then how did they - that's not the Republicans' fault.
BOOTHE: We will know if Joe Biden is Jeb Bush if he puts an exclamation mark--
TYRUS: There you go.
BOOTHE: Ahead of his name, Joe. Remember Jeb.
HEGSETH: He said, never did I believe I acted improperly.
HEGSETH: It doesn't matter what he believes. Inside his party in this movement right now, what matters what she thinks she saw and there will be plenty more of this in the way that they accuse him. I think he's probably not a bad guy. I don't know Joe Biden.
WILLIAMS: I don't think he's a bad guy at all. And let's just say, as we end this segment--
HEGSETH: But he's - they're going to laugh at him.
WILLIAMS: That Stephanie Carter whose picture was all over this weekend. She's Ash Carter's wife, Ash Carter, the former Secretary of Defense at his swearing and at the White House, there were pictures of Joe Biden holding Stephanie Carter's shoulders whispering in her ear. And she came out that there it is. And she came out this weekend and said, he's a longtime friend and nothing untoward, nothing that she felt offended by. But apparently in the hashtag me too era, Joe Biden is going to have to address this issue along with by the way, his handling of the Anita Hill, Clarence Thomas confirmation.
HEGSETH: You can't call Pence a decent guy either. That's not OK.
WILLIAMS: You can't what.
HEGSETH: You can't call Pence a decent guy, which he's had to apologize for, for weeks.
WILLIAMS: All right.
PERINO: I wish he would just tell them to shut up.
BOOTHE: Yes, exactly.
TYRUS: That'll be awesome. I'll do it.
HEGSETH: That's the way to do it.
WILLIAMS: All right. Jussie Smollett getting slammed by fellow celebrities.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS ROCK, COMEDIAN: They said no Jussie Smollett joke, what the hell was he thinking.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: The latest on the Smollett side, it's ahead right here on THE FIVE.
PERINO: Welcome back. Well, dueling rallies in Chicago after prosecutors dropped charges against Jussie Smollett; Jesse Jackson rallying religious leaders in support of the embattled Cook County State Attorney Kim Foxx. She's facing criticisms over her office's decisions. Let Smollett off-the- hook. And on the other side, the city's police union is furious with Foxx over dropping the case.
Also, this weekend, the Empire star getting some heat from his colleagues in Hollywood. Comedian Chris Rock slamming Smollett at the NAACP Image Awards. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROCK: They said no Jussie Smollett jokes. What the hell was he thinking? You, Jesse from now on, don't even get the U no more. That U was respect. You will get no respect from me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: All right. Well, Smollett is also getting the SNL treatment he got it on Saturday night. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are not going to believe what's just happening.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Really man.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I know what you're thinking but it's not that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. So, what is it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've got a text again.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's exactly what we were thinking, Jussie.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh! OK. Good. So, you believe me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is wrong with you man?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOOTHE: So, Juan I'm going to start with you. You've got the Nonpartisan National Association of District Attorneys who just skewered Foxx for talking about her failing to recuse among other things. You've also got the Illinois Bar Association of Prosecutor set her handling of this was dishonest and unethical. Why would anyone defend her?
WILLIAMS: Why would anyone defend her?
WILLIAMS: Well, I think that she initially recuses herself or tried to apparently, she didn't officially recuse herself. When he was thought to be the victim and there was pressure and we've discussed this, where there was pressure coming from people high and mighty, some close to the Obamas and all saying, hey, have the FBI look at this, because they're at least coming out of the police department. That case shifted. And then suddenly he was the suspect and that's a whole different case and actually, it was the number one prosecutor who made the decision that there would be an alternate deal as we now know.
But to me, I love the humor. I think he deserved the humorous kind of skewering that he got over the weekend. And I'm so proud that other black people are doing, so it's clearly, it's not a racial thing. It's really, I think people said on this show, you know it's a money thing. Is he being treated like the rich, the different standard of justice for people who are well-connected to have some money or fame in their pocket?
But I mean to me, the whole idea of Jussie or should I say in Chris Rock tradition, Jesse, because he doesn't deserve the U. I don't know. But Jussie Smollett I think has damaged himself and you can see it in the fact that he is now the target of humor even among people you would assume would be his supporters.
BOOTHE: So, Pete to what Juan said. So, Foxx wrote an op ed in The Chicago Tribune and she alludes to the fact that you know evidence and testimony provided her would make prosecution uncertain. However, how does that square with what the police have told us because they've come out and pointed at hard core evidence, things like the $3500 check, the letter that he sent himself. Those two individuals, the brothers on camera buying all these supplies. So, how do you square those two?
HEGSETH: Yes, I mean last time I checked prosecution is almost always uncertain unless you have a smoking gun and bulletproof evidence and a videotape. In this case, you don't have a videotape. You have the words of a man who proven to be false. And so, I think from the public perception, it's when you see corruption, when you see privilege, you see political correctness, you see lies about race crimes which are so visceral inside the American consciousness.
You want that day in court, present the evidence if you have it and let someone else decide, not a prosecutor who could potentially be on one side of that issue, especially when you see the police come out the way they have. I've rarely seen police come out so strongly about something, because they think their time was wasted and money wasted and resources as well.
BOOTHE: Dana, so Foxx is up for re-election and clearly, she senses some vulnerability at least politically, legally whatever it is by going to writing this op ed, what sort of jeopardy is she facing?
PERINO: I'm not exactly sure about her, but the mayoral race which is happening right now is between two African-American women. One very progressive, one a little bit more traditional. And this has become a big issue in this case. I love the editorial writer Clarence Page and he writes for The Chicago Tribune. And he doesn't think it's funny, right.
But he is saying that it's an odd sign of progress to see that a black man with enough wealth and the right connections can receive the same sort of special breaks from the criminal justice system that used to be reserved with a nod and a wink for rich and well-connected white men. We know about - that's one of the reasons we have the first step back that President Trump just signed.
But he also said, more troubling is the possibility in this instance. That Smollett exploited his race and sexuality more than he was penalized for it and even the appearance of impropriety makes an ugly image.
TYRUS: Well, first of all to Chris Rock, I am using my life's goodness to the fullest of my abilities. Although, I'm not using my curly hair as I rock with a hat, but that's my choice. You know I think Chris Rock said it best. What was he thinking? And the fact that as bad as the deal was and all of that stuff, the speech afterwards and I think that's what's really made the outrage and that - at some point I know you're used to having directors. There has to be somebody who's campuses, hey don't talk because what's making this, polarize this as he came out and when he made that statement, I wouldn't be my mother's son, if I didn't tell you I was always and that at that moment, it became outrage.
TYRUS: Like - and still this isn't completely over kids. There is still that little - that Creole letter, the death threat letter--
PERINO: The powder.
TYRUS: Set to himself with the powder on it.
TYRUS: That the U.S. Postal Service got some issues within the FBI. So, it's still potentially could be some jail time for this. We'll just call him an actor, just to be polite.
BOOTHE: Yes. Stay tuned on that. Also, I wonder what his mother thinks. But anyways, up next why Chick-fil-A isn't flying at some airport. Stay with us.
TYRUS: Chick-fil-A facing new controversy over two airports banning the fast food chain. Buffalo Niagara International blocking the restaurant after liberal backlash erupted. This comes after San Antonio airport did the same thing last week. The Texas Attorney General says, he's going to investigate the city's decision to see if Chick-fil-A's religious liberty was violated. This chicken outrage, I guess we'll call it. You know there was even a magazine article where it was in New York here which was giving you 17 more choices for chicken sandwiches besides Chick-fil-A.
Listen, I'm all for it if you don't agree--
BOOTHE: And yet Chick-fil-A is still filled.
TYRUS: I think Chick-fil-A is going to be fine. But here's the deal. Personally, I played arena football in South Carolina, one of our sponsors was a local Chick-fil-A restaurant. I went in there and I was disrespected of the racial sort. I never went back, and I've never eaten a Chick-fil-A again. I have chosen not to eat their products because of my bad experience. But do I want Chick-fil-A closed down. No, I don't. They have a right to be open and I have a right not to eat there. But telling them they can't go somewhere, they can't be, or I couldn't be more against this.
BOOTHE: Could they make it up to you.
BOOTHE: Could Chick-fil-A make it up to you now?
BOOTHE: Whatever happened. It's over. OK, got it.
TYRUS: It's like a divorce.
BOOTHE: Yes. You're done.
TYRUS: Let's just move on.
WILLIAMS: I'm very concerned about the religious rights of opinion here. So, they have a different opinion.
WILLIAMS: They close on Sundays for example. So, I'm very respectful of that and I think people like their Chick-fil-A, but do I think even in their religious sense that they should be anti-gay? No, I think that's wrong. I mean I'm a Christian. I think Jesus said, you can hate the sin but not the sinner and they should not be doing that.
HEGSETH: I think they would probably say the same thing.
WILLIAMS: Well, they don't act that way, Pete.
HEGSETH: That's not true. They put out a statement saying regardless of race, religion, gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation or gender identity you are welcome at Chick-fil-A.
WILLIAMS: No, that's true.
HEGSETH: So, this is a free country.
TYRUS: They'll take your dollar.
TYRUS: But they're still donating to that certain group.
HEGSETH: But in a free country, are you not allowed as a private company to have a corporate culture? And that is an assault on religious freedom.
WILLIAMS: Well, that's the question I have. But you must acknowledge Pete, we should all abide by the idea and I think especially for Christians that we all should be treated as equal.
HEGSETH: That's called tolerance. If you tolerate someone else's opinion isn't your own, that's tolerance.
WILLIAMS: Regardless of sexual orientation.
BOOTHE: It seems to me that Chick-fil-A are the ones that are being discriminated against here, because they're not preventing anyone from walking into their restaurants, they're not preventing people who are gay from working there going in and getting food. They're actually not discriminating against anyone as they put out in a statement. Essentially anyone is welcome to work here, so they're not actually actively discriminating against anyone. But you have people, they're actively discriminating against them by trying to prevent them from being able to hold up shop in an airport. That's discrimination to me.
WILLIAMS: Wait, wait. But didn't you hear what Tyrus said, it's the foundation, it's the money they put into the anti-gay movement.
BOOTHE: They give $9.9. million to charity.
HEGSETH: They're allowed to have a political position.
BOOTHE: in 2017, a ton of great organizations trying to help people, Dana--
TYRUS: Well, you have 9.9 million, but then you give 10 bucks to the clan. That's an issue. That's just an issue.
BOOTHE: Which is not--
HEGSETH: But that's different.
TYRUS: It's not true. Just making a point, kids. Yes.
PERINO: There seems to be a counter right there. Is there an organization - like there is not an organization that gives a lot to liberal groups that conservatives say, OK, I'll never eat there? I don't know--
HEGSETH: It is a double standard.
PERINO: Can I think of any.
PERINO: I am like that lady in Gillibrand's event. I'm just trying to get some ranch.
TYRUS: Yes, listen. They have every right--
PERINO: Just trying to get some chicken here.
TYRUS: To open. I don't think that and like I said, I personally never eat there, but they have every right to be at those airports.
HEGSETH: And have the corporate culture they want.
BOOTHE: They should make T-shirts just trying to--
PERINO: Trying to get some chicken.
TYRUS: Yes, Burger King's got a great chicken sandwich.
BOOTHE: What's in chicken, the chicken nuggets.
TYRUS: I love my Bacon chicken sandwich, my way.
BOOTHE: All right, ready. Tyrus?
TYRUS: Yes, I'm sorry. My way. One More Thing is up next. My Way.
PERINO: It's time now for One More Thing. I'm going to go first and pay tribute to Arlene Howard. She passed away this weekend. You might remember her, she was the mother of a New York City police officer who lost his life on September 11th. She passed away on Sunday at 95 years old. She was the one who gave her son's badge to President Bush on the day he visited Ground Zero shortly after the attacks.
George, Arlene's son was an NYPD officer. He raced into the city on his day off to help save as many lives as he could. President Bush actually carried that badge with him every day of his presidency as a symbol of lives lost. And when he addressed a joint session of Congress the following week, he had it there saying it was given to him as a proud memorial.
Arlene served as a naval clerk during World War II. She went on to hold a special place in President Bush's heart, but also everybody in America. She was very close friends with Long Island Congressman Peter King, and he described her as strong, tough and caring and indeed she was. Rest in Peace, Arlene.
TYRUS: Very cool.
WILLIAMS: All right. Busy spring weekend for the Williams family. The grandkids had fun at the zoo. A packed zoo by the way.
BOOTHE: I love a zoo.
WILLIAMS: And my wife and I went to take a look at nature's glory. The cherry blossoms in full bloom. It was jam packed around the Tidal Basin, but man, was it worth it. Here's a glimpse of how awesome this site cherry blossoms can be. Of course, you have to take a picture of your loved one next to the Cherry Blossom. So, here's my wife and then here's me. And afterwards, I took back some cherry blossom headbands for the grand girls. The cherry blossoms. I've got to tell you, just heavenly folks. But so, we're seeing all the families and elderly and I can't tell you. Some people were moved to tears by springtime beauty. Welcome springtime.
PERINO: Well, I'm about to move to tears because spring has not arrived in New York yet.
WILLIAMS: Still chilly.
TYRUS: Stuck in traffic. It's in traffic.
HEGSETH: Well, at Fox Nation we'll continue to try to prove that we are the Netflix of conservatives, so we've got a new one as Easter and Palm Sunday come. I've got a two-part documentary about Jerusalem debuting on April 11th that's called the battle in the holy city. Here's a quick preview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The history of Jerusalem is as long as the history of humanity. But does the history matter as much today as it did over the millennium. Battle in the holy city. It's a story about the undercurrents. On the surface, things may look still. Underground, a silent battle is being waged for control of Jerusalem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEGSETH: It's filled with a lot of exclusive footage where cameras have never gone. Interviews and access, even got to sit down with Israeli Prime Minister Bibi Netanyahu, who says a lot of interesting things about Jerusalem. You think you know the story until you go underground, you're on camera and off camera, and it is not over.
BOOTHE: All right.
HEGSETH: April 11th.
BOOTHE: We are in the midst of March Madness and the final fours this weekend. I've got a potential prospect for colleges. This is a video of Calvin Shannon, a little four-year-old. There he is--
BOOTHE: Just banking all the shots. He's taken the Internet by the storm with these impressive moves that he's got. His dad says it before he could even stand or walk, he was obsessed with shooting a basketball. His dad said that he is also obsessed with Michael Jordan documentaries and of course the movie Space Jam obviously. So, colleges be on the lookout. This little cutie could potentially be a prospect for you.
WILLIAMS: I think he's a little Pete Hegseth.
BOOTHE: He is four-years-old.
TYRUS: All right. Well, first of all on a high note. You know speaking of Fox Nation, I'm not the guy who runs the flagship show on NBC. He's got another show coming out. Spoiler alert. Enough Said with Tyrus, it's me. We're going one-on-one with great people around the world.
BOOTHE: Am I going to be on it?
TYRUS: Yes, you are. And then on a more somber note the reason why I'm wearing black today is to pay my respects to Nipsey Hussle who was shot and killed at 33. The most devastating part of this, you always hear people talk about put America first. This young brother put his neighborhood first. He was investing in his neighbor which you often just never see. I've got a chance to spend some time with my music video back in the day. He was a humble good dude and we are sorely sad to see him go.
PERINO: Devastating one. All right, everybody. Thanks for joining us. Way to kick off the week. We appreciate it. Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of "The Five."
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