Democrats ramp up demands for John Bolton to testify at Senate impeachment trial
The New York Times reports that in an unpublished manuscript, former National Security Adviser John Bolton alleges that President Trump tied Ukraine aid to an investigation into the Bidens; reaction and analysis on 'The Five.'
This is a rush transcript from "The Five," January 27, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
(LIVE COVERAGE OF SENATE IMPEACHMENT TRIAL)
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: That was Pam Bondi. She was presenting a portion of the president's legal defense team case to focus mostly on Burisma and Hunter Biden's relationship. She also showed a clip of Joe Biden who, of course, as we know, bragged about his role in carrying out the United States policy, which was at that time, to fire that particular prosecutor in Ukraine.
We're going to take it around the table here because we have a lot to get to. Jay Sekulow's going to continue. We'll monitor that. We'll bring you any additional news. We'll just give you some thoughts about what THE FIVE is thinking. We'll take it around quickly. Dagen, you've been up all morning since the beginning and watched all of this, any opening thoughts?
DAGEN MCDOWELL, GUEST CO-HOST: We'll get to John Bolton shortly. But this is a way for them to put a placeholder in place if the Democrats force a vote on calling Joe Biden -- John Bolton as a witness. This is a place holder to potentially press the Republicans to call Hunter Biden, even Joe Biden. I think that Byron York last week wrote that there was a growing chorus of Republican senators who are talking about trying to call Hunter Biden, including Ted Cruz.
Hunter Biden is not only relevant, he's now critical. But this is also a political adventure. It has been throughout the House impeachment and now in the trial and the Senate. So, again, score some political points and point out the huge conflicts of interest that are going on in Ukraine with the work of Hunter Biden.
In the meantime, Hunter Biden just in the last few days, he's tooling around Hollywood on $130,000 thousand Porsche Panamera being photographed there. And he's got an answer. He's got enough money to rent what is reportedly a $12,000 thousand a month house in Hollywood, but can't pay child support on his fourth -- soon will have five.
PERINO: When I saw that report yesterday that he -- with the picture, I zoomed in because I knew somebody here would know what kind of car that was. I'm not very good on the whole car front. But I'm glad to know exactly what it is. Jesse, why don't we get some thoughts from you?
JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: Well, I think Pam Bondi just established meticulously how much Hunter was making at Burisma compared to the average family in the United States, how this is not a conspiracy theory that not only President Trump but the Obama State Department, the British, and every single media outlet in this country, then and now, have said that this gig in Ukraine by Hunter Biden.
This arrangement, and his father demanding the firing, was extremely suspicious and borderline corrupt. She did an excellent job doing that. And she also established the fact that the firing just didn't come out of nowhere. It came amid heavy lobbying by Burisma lobbyists and executive to the Obama State Department before and after the firing.
It doesn't look good for Joe Biden. And I completely agree that if you are a Democrat and you want to start calling witnesses, well, that's a witness. Hunter, that I don't he would withstand that kind of scrutiny when they have the bank records, the reporting, and all of what they have. And I just don't think he's going to ever have to testify. They are too scared.
PERINO: There might -- yeah. I wonder about that, which is like mutually assured destruction. Does that make it that there are no witnesses? We don't know. Greg, how about you?
GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: I want to state the obvious that the Republicans are obviously digging themselves out of a hole that the Dems dug all week. Eighty hours of un-criticized filibustering loathed in -- I mean, bathed in the drool of media. And what do the Republicans get? Saturday morning. When all of us fun people are walking home.
You know, I didn't watch it. It's like being a comedian who gets the 3:00 a.m. spot at a telethon, you know? It's like they have to work their way out of this. I think that's why a lot of the polls have been favorable in a way, because, you know all you got was that perspective. But the bottom line, I think, is the big point.
The previous week was a collection of presumptions over actions, mind- reading, more opinions and facts. The reason why the hearing was so popular was it reflected exactly what CNN and MSNBC wants, so they were -- they loved it. It mirrored their thoughts. This is going to be something different. This is the fact part of it.
That's why they are showing the ambassadors talking and stating the facts, the things that Schiff had ignored. On another note, though, I will say this because we are going to talk about Kobe later in the show, but that does -- that was a horrible event that happened this weekend. And it kind of makes the stuff in some ways seem really, really silly and gross.
Because what you saw yesterday was a country essentially uniting in sorrow over a really horrible thing. And this is the damage that is divisive as ever.
PERINO: Tragedies certainly can focus the mind indeed. I wonder -- if you can pull up the Ken Starr comment. You have that there? I'll play this for you, Juan, and then maybe get some thoughts. Because we were sitting together but we didn't have a chance to talk about it. Here we go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are living what I think can aptly be described as the age of impeachment. In the House, presidential impeachment has become a weapon, to be wielded against one's political opponent.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We deal with transcript evidence. We deal with publicly available information. We do not deal with speculation, allegations that are not based on evidentiary standards at all. We live in a Constitutional republic where you have deep policy concerns and deep differences. That should not be the basis of an impeachment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: How do you they've done today effectively?
JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Well, it's kind of a, you know, on the one hand and the other, Jay Sekulow when he started, the business about not addressing the Bolton issue which will come to in a moment. I think a lot people are like, how can you not do that. But then he goes on and goes and he says we are going to look at the facts.
And then when he introduced one of the White House lawyers, that lawyer attempted to look at the facts. And that's where I think the Trump defense team did its best work, which is trying to say, hey, listen, a lot of stuff that the Democrats said wasn't wrong but it lacked context. There are people who said additional things that would put it in a more full picture for you.
And might, in fact, lead you to think, hey, maybe the president wasn't acting wrong. Maybe in fact he was concerned about overall corruption. And it wasn't directly tied to the investigation of Joe Biden, therefore undercutting the quid pro quo. Now, we've heard though, you know, Mick Mulvaney said, you know, get over it.
Foreign policy is often tied to meeting American demands. And of course, then you've heard Gordon Sondland and others say there was a quid pro quo. But what didn't impress me, Dana, was Ken Starr. I mean, I guess they put Ken Starr out there for a reason. But it's hard --
PERINO: He kind of basically laid the groundwork, saying impeachment is not a remedy that we should use.
WILLIAMS: Right, but it is hard coming from Ken Starr.
PERINO: He was appointed under the impeachment law statute, which we do not live under anymore.
WATTERS: I thought Ken Starr did a nice job. He started off a little slowly. You have to warm up to Ken Starr.
(CROSSTALK)
WATTERS: At first, I got a little nervous. But as you get into it and you start kind of feeling the rhythm of his voice, he's very captivating. And I would agree. He talks about the history of impeachment. And right now, we are at a fever pitch. I think in the first 150 years, we had one impeachment. Now we've had three in the last 20, 30 years or something.
And he said now, traditionally, impeachment is supposed to be bipartisan. It's supposed to have -- I'm not saying it can't have a crime. But all of the writings and the rulings and the thought about impeachment, there has to be an underlying crime. And due process was shredded in the House. The Magna Carta shredded in the House.
And that was really destructive to the Democrats' argument. They came in here destroying their own precedent and saying to a commander-in-chief, to a president who was relying on their own office of Special Counsel in the Justice Department's opinion, he's not going rogue. He's abiding by the opinion of the office of the Special Counsel, very talented lawyers.
And he's being impeached for taking the advice of counsel in the executive branch. That never happened before. And they need to walk that back and realize this is just gross.
GUTFELD: I would add one thing to this just because looking at the stock market today, which is I think is about down 450, 460?
MCDOWELL: It lost almost all if not all of its gains this year.
GUTFELD: So what that's reflecting is an anxiety over an issue that we are not talking about, right? So as we do impeachment every day --
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: -- it's about the Coronavirus.
GUTFELD: Yeah, exactly, exactly. I was getting there. So what would you -- I think the question is what would you rather have your government do? Because clearly, it can only do one thing, run impeachment theater for weeks and months on end, or deal directly with a global pandemic that could be doubling every six days.
MCDOWELL: This actually goes to something about the argument against impeachment and removal. It -- was this a threat to our national security. No, but the Coronavirus is. The government has one job and that's protecting its people. And I do think it will come down, Juan, that all these senators, particularly the Republicans will have to look and say will we vote to remove a president nine months before an election when a majority of Americans are not in favor of that removal.
WILLIAMS: Wait a minute. We just had a Fox poll -- anyway.
(CROSSTALK)
MCDOWELL: -- average.
WILLIAMS: President Trump's legal team on the Senate floor right now making the case against impeachment, as you know. This comes as the fight over witnesses intensifies yet again. This time, it's over claims in former national security advisor John Bolton's new book. The New York Times reporting, that in an unpublished manuscript, Bolton alleges that President Trump tied aid to Ukraine to the investigation into the Biden's.
The report fueling a new battle over testimony among lawmakers, and here is the president denying John Bolton's claims earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I haven't seen the manuscript. But I can tell you nothing was ever said to John Bolton. But I have not seen the manuscript. I guess he's writing a book. I'm not sure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: Dana, let me ask you. Do you think this moves the needle on Republicans voting to call witnesses?
PERINO: It's possible. It's possible. But I think there's -- we've got a ways to go because before you even get to a vote about witnesses, you have another two may be even a day or so, depends on how much time the president's lawyers want to use. So it could. But maybe we'll find out more about all of this before then.
Even if we do get to witnesses, as Jesse was pointing just a moment ago, you could get to a point where it's clear there's going to be witnesses and there's going to be all the witnesses. It's not going to just be John Bolton, Mick Mulvaney. It's going to be like -- you won't get to do the no witnesses like the House did.
A couple of things on this, as far as I know, John Bolton, I was his spokesperson when he was trying to be appointed -- when President Bush had appointed him to the United Nations and the Democrats blocked that. They called him a liar, all sorts of things. Remember that. They're not calling him a liar now.
I also am -- I'm for people writing books. But I also have long believed that the best way to write a book if you've had an opportunity and a privilege to work in an administration is to do so after a term is over. Either when the president is no longer the president, I think folks come in the middle of it always end up being -- looking like it's for personal gain even if it's not necessarily that way.
And that they're always taking the wrong way and they hurt the very person that gave you the opportunity to work in the White House, typically, because the media will always try to find a way to see if there is a way to divide. Third thing is, though, that I predicted this on Friday. I said I would not be surprised if by Sunday night there is another one of these little leaks.
Because the Democrats might realize that they know that the president is going to be acquitted, but they are going to figure out a way to make it very difficult for them as much as they possibly can. And this happens on Sunday night. But here's what I would also say. That might be wrong. But the White House, any White House, has to figure out a way to get much more coordinated.
Like, everybody needs to know that, oh, heads up, everybody. John Bolton's manuscript just landed in the National Security Counsel's desk, who needs to be there to know about it? But they didn't do that. Apparently, it looks like they didn't do that. And so that means it looks like they were caught a little bit flat-footed today.
WILLIAMS: All right. Dagen, you know, one thing that strikes me is picking up on what Dana just said about her accurate prediction, that we had the Lev Parnas thing come out. We've then had the OMB email about the money being withheld after the phone call. We have the GAO saying this was illegal. Now we've got Bolton and he's naming names. It's like a drip, drip, drip.
GUTFELD: Exactly.
(CROSSTALK)
MCDOWELL: Where do you go? Where do you go? Do you know why we are laughing?
WILLIAMS: Tell me.
MCDOWELL: You tell him.
WATTERS: No, I mean, it's obviously a coordinated stunt, Juan.
WILLIAMS: Wait, wait. You said -- but wait, in fact, Bolton and his lawyer have said they didn't review --
(CROSSTALK)
WATTERS: Here's why I'm not buying this Bolton stuff. I've been around not that long, but long enough to know this is a hatchet job. How many perfectly-timed anonymous cherry-picked revelations have been leaked perfectly-timed to help the Democrats to The New York Times?
MCDOWELL: Jim Comey.
WILLIAMS: Are these the same anonymous sources that said that there was Russia collusion? I mean are these the same anonymous people in the NSA who tried to draw up this whole whistleblower complaint?
GUTFELD: So we don't know who leaks it. We know why. The timing tells you why. This is in order to, like, to nail the president. But nobody's actually seen the actual --
(CROSSTALK)
MCDOWELL: -- could actually defend the president.
GUTFELD: I mean here's the deal. People are freaking out on the right about this. And I'm going, like, it vindicates Trump because he's telling everybody what Trump really thought, which is was, like, Ukraine was corrupt. And he was -- on behalf of the Dems, and this is what he's trying to do. But now this is just like another bombshell.
The media has TBD, terminal bombshell disease about -- is a bombshell, but it's nothing. But the bottom line is nobody knows what it is.
WATTERS: Well, here's what I think it is, because they actually lied about what they say their revelation is. They do not get to page four until they tell you the meat of the conversation that Bolton had with the president. This is a direct quote from The New York Times, OK? This is supposed to be the good stuff. He, the president, quote.
"Preferred sending no assistance to Ukraine until officials had turned over all the materials they had about the Russia investigation that related to Mr. Biden and supporters of Mrs. Clinton and Ukraine." So this was not about Burisma or Hunter. This was about them releasing information about election interference and collusion by the Democrats against the president.
So that's why this murky leak is probably from some guy that maybe saw a manuscript, spun it to The Times, and they can't corroborate because they don't have it.
PERINO: Can I make a recommendation on something? Do you have something that's --
(CROSSTALK)
MCDOWELL: I was just going to say conspiracy theory.
PERINO: OK. I don't have it -- I never have those. So I think that when you do a book in the middle of a president -- especially if you had top- secret clearance. You have to get it cleared from the government. So he sends it in. That's the appropriate procedure to do. Well, they haven't cleared it. But the president of United States has the ability to clear it if he wants to.
So they could release that chapter, or they could tell John Bolton, like, we are good with your book, like, whatever. They could release it, and then -- and trying to do that before this question --
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: He was on Amazon today. I mean how's that not a conspiracy?
PERINO: That's my conspiracy theory. It has nothing to do with the impeachment. It's the publisher.
(CROSSTALK)
MCDOWELL: -- categorically state they had absolutely no coordination with it. But I will point this out. So if you think that your author is going to give away what's in the book, you need to pre-sell that book -- expletive, before he actually testifies potentially. This is you striking while that iron is hot and this is the moment. And by the way, this is not number one, Kobe Bryant is number one. So this doesn't even do sales. But they're trying to sell it ahead of possible testimony.
WILLIAMS: Let's just get back to today. I don't think there's any question. He tied President Trump to a quid pro quo. And this is a Trump official. That's why --
(CROSSTALK)
WATTERS: Not Burisma and Hunter, though.
WILLIAMS: Up next, brand new details on what Jesse's talking about, the helicopter crash that killed NBA star Kobe Bryant.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WATTERS: The president's legal team is arguing against impeachment on the Senate floor right. And we're going to monitor it and bring you any big developments. But in the meantime, as the world mourns, we have brand new information on the tragic death of Kobe Bryant. We are learning what was happening inside the helicopter before the terrible crash that killed the NBA legend, his daughter, and seven others. Jonathan Hunt is alive in Calabasas, California, with the latest.
JONATHAN HUNT, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Jesse, good afternoon to you. Since first light, investigators have been on scene here in Calabasas where that helicopter went round and down, and job one for them this morning was to start the grim process as a look at the crash site of removing the bodies of the nine people who died in the helicopter, working alongside the recovery personnel.
NTSB investigators looking for the precise cause of the crash, they are looking very closely at weather as a major factor. There was dense fog over Calabasas at the time. And the pilot, Ara Zobayan, had requested special visual flight rules to aid him as he flew through the fog. Listen here to part of his conversation with air traffic control. Listen here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BURBANK AIRPORT TOWER: Follow THE FIVE freeway. Maintain special VFR -- correction, special VFR conditions at or below 2,500.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Maintain special VFR at or below 2,500, I-5 northbound, 2-echo-X.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Shortly after that conversation, the pilot made a final turn to the southwest, having requested what's called flight following, tracking of his helicopter to ensure that he didn't come too close to any of the aircraft. Listen again now to the very final communication from air traffic control.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SOCAL APPROACH: Two echo x-ray, you are still too low level for flight following at this time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Too low level for flight following. Just seconds after that, it is believed that the helicopter slammed in to the hillside here. Meantime, fans across the sports world paying tribute to a man they considered a legend, a man many of them consider a brother, a man many of them considered an inspiration. Listen here to some of those fans.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm numb. I'm numb right now. He's my hero. I grew up with Kobe. He's of my age.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's in my prayers. I'm lost for words. You know, I'm still having a hard time with it. So all I can do is just, you know, hope that his family, you know, wish them the best. I can't imagine what they're going through.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONATHAN HUNT, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CHIEF CORRESPONDENT: Tomorrow night, the Lakers are due to play the L.A. Clippers at Staples Center, so commonly known as the house that Kobe built. It will be a deeply emotional evening. Jesse?
WATTERS: Jonathan, thank you. And yes, and they had the Grammys last night, Juan, at the Staples Center, the house, the Kobe built. And they had the cameras pan up to the rafters where his jerseys were retired and everybody came together and sang and, and there's a lot of love there last night.
WILLIAMS: I think there's a lot of love across the country. And it's not that you know, he was a perfect man. He had that terrible case but I just - - I think it's really touching how people have reacted to this because he was 41 years old. The idea that his daughter died he was -- he was coaching his daughter. He really, I think had changed his image for the better.
You know, I'm an NBA fan and as are you, Jessie, 20-year career, 18 time All-Star. He comes from Philadelphia, never went to college, but he was a sensation in high school and then a sensation right away in the NBA. And you know, for me, one of the things that always struck me is, everybody talks about him scoring like 80 points in Toronto one night, last game he played, he scored 60. But I think that he was five or six times All-NBA Defensive Team.
WATTERS: Yes. (INAUDIBLE) defender.
WILLIAMS: And the intensity of him as a competitor comes through. That guy cared.
WATTERS: And that's what everybody is saying. They actually went to Tiger Woods as he was getting off 18 yesterday. He just heard the horrible news and they went to him with the microphone. And he said, the guy is probably the fiercest competitor he's ever met.
MCDOWELL: It also reminded me because you struggle to come to grips with it, you know, just having lost my mother, it's very -- it's very raw. And I think people feel that. But it's a reminder of how a sports team or a transformative sports figure not only unites your family, but connects you to your friends, ties you to a community.
And I don't think people go to look, look for talking heads are people who wear makeup for a living to tell them what this meant to them. They already know. And you get that from perfect strangers just riding the bus as I did.
WATTERS: Yes, it makes you think, Greg, you mentioned at the top of the show.
WATTERS: Well, we have to remember too that there were three families devastated in this. I can't even -- I don't know how you can like assess the scale of this misery for everybody involved. It's a devastating event and it puts everything in perspective and reminds you that everything that you have can be gone in an instant.
I was -- when I was reading this tragedy, next to me -- next to that article was another article on the Web site. I won't say which paper. Model -- the headline was model remembers trauma of trying on clothes at Abercrombie and Fitch. And I'm thinking to myself, perspective, perspective, the words trauma are placed in the right perspective when you see something this horrifying, and it makes your life look well, like maybe I don't have it so bad.
WATTERS: Dana?
PERINO: I would just say, just to wrap it up, obviously, grief comes in waves and it could last for a long time. And one of the things I've been learning more about him -- I don't really follow basketball, obviously, you all know that, but he had really committed himself to being a person that people looked up to. And it is a reminder of the -- of the power of one person. If you commit to something, you can really make a big difference and he certainly did.
WATTERS: He sure did. All right, more of "The Five" coming up. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(LIVE COVERAGE OF SENATE IMPEACHMENT TRIAL)
PERINO: Hi there again. We're going to break back in. This is "The Five." Eric Herschmann has been presenting the President's legal defense and continued to talk about Burisma, the Biden's, and the Obama administration. They're still on the floor. I'm just going to get some final thoughts from "The Five" before we turn it over to Bret Baier. So Jesse, let me go to you for -- just wrapping it up here.
WATTERS: OK. Well, I thought that was a good inversion of reality -- inversion of reality presentation by the defense counsel there. So they're saying the most corrupt company and Ukraine is paying millions of dollars to the V.P. son, and the V.P. is in charge of looking into corruption in Ukraine, and then fires the prosecutor investigating the son's corrupt company.
And then you have Obama whispering about flexibility needed by the Russians to buy himself time to get a political advantage in an election year that jeopardizes national security with regard to missile defense and they played the soundbite of the debate of Barack Obama scolding Mitt Romney for how dare you say Russia is our number one foe.
And then the Democrats saying this is such an urgent threat, they go on vacation after they launch impeachment. And then they wait another three weeks until after the Super Bowl, or the -- was it the NCAA championship game. And then finally, and I learned this, and I thought I knew everything. I didn't know this. Donald Trump put eight holds on Afghanistan, Central America, South Korea, Pakistan for all host of reasons regarding corruption, not doing what's in America's best interest. So this happens all the time, except this time, they thought they could nail him on it.
PERINO: Now, there's a slight difference, though, which is I don't know -- I mean, if they can tie other people to all these other countries and asking for an investigation, but --
WATTERS: Well, Hunter, and James Biden, and a lot of Biden brothers have been working in a lot of different countries if you read his book.
PERINO: I know. And also, Juan, to that point, President Obama and his team had gone to the Vice President's office and said, we have some concern here because their instincts like doesn't look good.
WILLIAMS: Correct. But nobody argues with that. The argument is that they didn't say there was anything illegal or wrong, and they didn't ban it. They looked into it and said nothing. And I think Joe Biden said today, he's not playing this game, because he just didn't do anything wrong and nobody has accused him of doing anything wrong. And that's why I think this is the weakest part.
I think it's stronger when they try to confront the facts and say, here's what the Democrats left out. But this stuff looks like you're just trying to, you know, pull people's minds away from the fact that this is an impeachment of President Trump, not Joe Biden.
PERINO: Look ahead a little bit if you could, Dagen, to tomorrow, where the President's legal defense team is still going to have some time on the clock, though they might not use all of their 24 hours, but they're going to probably continue this tomorrow.
MCDOWELL: So their audience of -- the defense teams audience, it just isn't the American people and particularly the senators, it's also President Trump. Can we expect a little more "zaz" out of their performance, like a secular Pat Cipollone? Because this is -- I mean, they're presenting the facts. But again, a little more passion, a little more passionate defense of the President of the United States.
PERINO: What do you think it goes from here, Greg?
GUTFELD: Well, I'm looking forward to hearing Alan Dershowitz. I thought that was today, but maybe not. I think the media is going to continue to frame the story that when Trump requests an investigation on corruption, that's actually into election interference. So that's the way they're going to present the story.
The problem is Bolton has just backed it up saying that Trump has always been concerned about the Ukraine meddling in 2016, so that kind of blows that to shreds. Although we really don't know because we haven't even seen the book yet. I'm looking forward to it.
PERINO: And we also have all this other breaking news that is happening, especially there's additional cases around the world, not in the United States, but of the coronavirus, the stock market, we're taking a look at that. We have of course the Kobe Bryant and the death of nine people and that helicopter crash. Everybody's covering that.
And of course, there are other things happening like the we haven't even talked today. It is a week from today that Iowa will have the first caucus of the nation for the 2020 election.
WATTERS: Yes. Isn't Bernie Sanders ahead in Iowa in the latest couple polls? Wow, you can see Bernie win in Iowa, and then he's ahead in New Hampshire poll, and then Juan is going to start sweating bullets, because it's going to be a civil war and we're just going to love every minute of it, Juan.
WILLIAMS: Well, you know what, you should get some points of disagreement or delineation among Democrats at this juncture. But I must say, I think I'd be sweating the Tuesday after because that State of the Union. Can you imagine, Trump trying to give State of the Union and this is still going on?
WATTERS: Well, that's why they're going to vote for --
GUTFELD: That's why the impeachment, it's always about trying to handicap Trump. That's all it's about.
WILLIAMS: No, it's not.
MCDOWELL: I can't quite play button up the Bernie Sanders phenomenon. Haven't they learned anything from the Republicans? The more you go after him, the more you target him --
PERINO: And the more you say he can't win.
MCDOWELL: Yes. The more you energize his base, and people look at him and go, he's consistent.
PERINO: All right, thanks, everybody. Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of "The Five."
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