Debra Messing retweets post calling Ivanka and Jared 'national security threats'
Trump-hating Hollywood at it again? Reaction on 'The Five.'
This is a rush transcript from "The Five," September 11, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
DANA PERINO, HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Katie Pavlich, Juan Williams, Jesse Watters, and Tom Shillue. It's 5 o'clock in New York City, and this is “The Five.”
It's been 18 years since the 9/11 terror attacks that killed nearly 3,000 people as America remembers and promises to never forget. President Trump observing a moment of silence at the White House, and honoring those who lost their lives at a ceremony at the Pentagon where President George W. Bush also paid tribute with a wreath laying. And earlier today, New York City mayor, Rudy Giuliani, revealing new details about a powerful conversation he had with President Bush at the time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: The anger was tremendous. When I saw President Bush for the first time and he got off the helicopter, as of Governor Pataki, he greeted the governor, he came up to me and says -- very famous picture, back of my head like that, and he says to me, you know, Rudy, what can I do? I said when you get Bin Laden you let me kill him. I might have said execute him. I think was -- I think I was thinking as a lawyer. I thought there'd be capital punishment and I could try the case. I have done that for two Nazis.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were headed towards --
GIULIANI: I only had two capital cases in my career and both of them are Nazis. One that kills 7,000 people, and it killed 12,000 people. Capital case is easy when it's like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: And while our country reflects, the families of the victims are still looking for justice, most specifically for admitted 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. His trial has faced numerous delays and it isn't slated to begin until January of 2021. And a day of remembrance was not without controversy. Emotions were running high at ground zero at times, the son of a 9/11 victim going after Congresswoman Ilhan Omar for her previous comments about the terror attacks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some people did something said a freshman congresswoman from Minnesota. The support and justified the creation of CAIR. We know who and what was done. There's no uncertainty about that. Why your confusion? On that day, 19 Islamic terrorists, members of Al-Qaeda, killed over 3,000 people and cost billions of dollars of economic damage. Is that clear?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: Jesse, part of never forgetting is being very specific and clear minded about what happened so that people who were not born yet can understand it in the future. I didn't realize you were in Philadelphia on 9/11 back then.
JESSE WATTERS, HOST: I was, and I was about 23 years old. And for me, my life breaks down into pre-9/11 and post-9/11 because the America before that, it's very hard to understand for people that weren't there. A lot of young people don't understand it how it changed air travel. How it's changed how we feel vulnerable in the homeland. About how we feel about privacy. The deployment after deployment after deployment.
So it's important to hear things like what Rudy Giuliani said so everybody can reflect and remember and keep that flame alive. So when we say as a hashtag, never forget, we actually know what we're talking about. I woke up this morning and I watched the “Fox & Friends” montage from about 8:30 to 9 o'clock. What we do, we only play this once a year where we show the footage of the planes hitting the towers, and we show all of our anchors and all of our correspondents report the attacks in real time, and it's very important for all of us to do that.
Also, very important, listen to the names that are read of those who passed away that day. You don't have to listen to every single name. Just a few letters, C through D, E through F, whatever it takes. It's a very sobering experience. Also today, always a good day to go up when you see a police officer, or firefighter, a service member, just shake their hand and say thank you. And you and I have also talked about this. Go to Ari Fleischer's twitter feed today and he will deliver a blow-by-blow of the events as is proximity to George W. Bush was right there, and he can tell you what went down that close to power.
And go online and watched two videos, George W. Bush throwing out the first pitch at Yankee Stadium, and then him standing on top of the rubble with the bullhorn. And also, if you have children, as I do, who weren't there, or if you have children who are born after, just explained to them what happens, in simple term, maybe you go visit the memorial, or go up to the top of the Freedom Tower. It's important for it to survive generation after generation.
PERINO: And, of course, Juan, I know you're a big baseball fan. I remember learning about Derek Jeter telling the president, don't bounce it.
(LAUGHTER)
JUAN WILLIAMS, HOST: Well, I don't think New York was going to boo President Bush. He did such a great job. And Jesse mentioned when he was standing on top of the rubble with the bullhorn and saying, you know --
PERINO: And just a spontaneous moment, right? And just the transformational moment for him.
WILLIAMS: Do you think so?
PERINO: Absolutely. Not necessarily the bullhorn but I think that when -- just knowing him the way I do and I think just based on his reflections, and if you read in his book, Decision Points, the moment that Andy Card comes into the elementary school where they're doing a no child left behind event, and Andy Card leans in and whispers to the president, and you can see it in his face it's like -- and there we have it.
And what's interesting to me, Juan, is that in 2000, I know you covered that election, neither Gore nor Bush was ever asked a single question about Al-Qaeda that entire campaign season.
WILLIAMS: Not at all. And I remember that day in -- I was in Washington, I was working for national public radio hosting a show there, and I was -- I remember, you know, going home or getting off in the morning, and it was the first time and I'd heard something that happened and I thought, oh, is this an accident? You know, a plane just happened to hit. And then, by the time I got home, I turned on the TV and you could see what Jesse was describing. It was on Fox & Friends this morning, the second plane hitting the building.
And at that moment, just being afraid for my son who was going to school across the river from the Pentagon, because then, all of a sudden, there was not only talk about the Pentagon, but about whether or not there was another plane heading for the Capital. I know you've been to Shanksville, I think Vice President Pence was there today, and you did a wonderful little segment about --
PERINO: Shanksville is so remarkable because -- I really learned this from Greg Gutfeld, is he talked about the first act of counter terrorism, right? The remarkable amount of heroism and how the people voted on the plane before they rushed the cockpit. I wanted to ask you about -- your girls are a little bit older than Jesse's, and how they think about or do you talk about?
TOM SHILLUE, HOST: Yeah, we do talk about it. And we -- we were new -- my wife and I, we weren't married yet, but we was new in our relationship and that was a very sobering time, obviously, that fall. I was doing stand-up at the time. A lot of people went right back on stage and said we've got to get up there. We've got to do our shows. I took the rest of the month off. I did not want to go do shows.
PERINO: Interesting.
SHILLUE: It was -- it was quite a time. But we talk about it. And the thing that hit me today, Johnny Joey Jones was on Outnumbered, and he said the people who are born on that day, they can vote today.
PERINO: Yeah.
SHILLUE: It's 18 years, and that was amazing to me that -- this what happens, every time we have this anniversary, I can't believe how long ago it was because it seems like yesterday.
PERINO: And there's a great new book called, the only plane in the sky, it's recollection and collection of people who -- they missed the flight or they were supposed to be on this flight, all the possible disasters for their own lives that could have happened and it's all collected in this book.
KATIE PAVLICH, HOST: People who are running late, right? Today, I've been actually reflecting a lot about my own generation, because this is obviously one of the biggest things we possibly could have gone through, and how grateful I am that I have had friends who did the call to service, who went into the military right after high school because of 9/11, and then moving into a professional career in Washington, D.C., and meeting all these amazing people who went into the intelligence services, who went into counterterrorism work, who went into the CIA, went to worked at the state department, who still are doing that work and dedicated their lives and their careers to fighting this evil.
And when you drive past the Pentagon on the side where the plane hit, the Pentagon is on the right side when you're driving towards Washington, D.C., and on the left side is Arlington Cemetery. And in Plot 60 is a lot of men and women who went over and served after 9/11, and that's where they are now.
PERINO: How old were you?
PAVLICH: I'm not -- 13.
PERINO: Thirteen, that's, you know, pretty transformational time and it help shape a worldview and we're grateful, of course, for your reflections, and everybody's. I didn't realize about the stand up. It's interesting.
SHILLUE: Yeah.
PERINO: All right. We will switch gears now. Brand new fallout over CNN's Russia spy report, Jesse has it next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WATTERS: What was left of CNN's credibility is now completely in the toilet. The self-proclaimed facts first network under fire for another botched Trump-Russia report, this time they claim the president was the reason why a CIA spy was extracted from Russia. The story has been debunked by numerous outlets, and it turns out Trump had nothing to do with it and wasn't even in office when the decision was made. Despite all of that, CNN still reported it this morning.
And new numbers show the network spent a hundred and eighty one minutes hyping the so-called bombshell earlier this week. Sadly, it's not just CNN that's clinging to the bogus story. Check out what NBC asked former secretary of state, Condi Rice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think it's possible that Russia's election interference actually worked? It actually elected Donald Trump over --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't think there's any evidence of that. And, you know, I really don't think that that's a good conversation to have. I think that really does devalue the people in Wisconsin and Michigan and others who decided to vote for President Trump, whether you like this president or not, whether you believe that he should have been president or not. Let's give the credit to the Americans went out and voted for somebody who they thought would bring change.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATTERS: All right, Juan, I have a theory on all of these. I think you might agree with me.
WILLIAMS: I'm looking forward to it.
WATTERS: I think the media might help get Donald Trump reelected and here's why. All they do is report on Donald Trump. Fake news, sharpie gate, and they give no room for any of the Democrats running for president. You don't hear anything about any of the other Democrats. It's Trump 24/7, and I think it's to the detriment of the Democrats running.
WILLIAMS: Well, I understand your point because he takes up so much air in the room.
WATTERS: And they give it to him.
WILLIAMS: Boy, do we give it to him.
(LAUGHTER)
WILLIAMS: But I must say, you know, Donald Trump, I think, every political conversation, I have a lot of them, tends to always come back to Donald Trump. He is still the, you know, 100-pound gorilla, or whatever, 800- pound gorilla in the room. I mean, he's the guy.
PERINO: A 100-pound gorilla.
WILLIAMS: Whatever, I don't know.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: That's not a very big gorilla.
WILLIAMS: No, no. But he's the biggest of the big ones. So, I think, obviously -- and also with the chaos, and like yesterday with John Bolton leaving, and all the arguments from the previous weekend with the idea of bringing the Taliban to Camp David. Imagine, today, 9/11, just -- it would have been awful. I think people -- the media has to cover the president. He's the President of the United States. But your point is well taken. I do agree with you.
SHILLUE: There you go. That's why --
(CROSSTALK)
WATTERS: Didn't take that long. If we could only do that every show, Juan, we'll have a hell of a program. What do you think, Tom, CNN at it again? Are they going to apologize or not?
SHILLUE: And not only CNN, I love that NBC clip, and I love Condi Rice with the push back. I mean, not only -- she almost was too nice. She said that's not a conversation we should have. How about stop saying that. Stop saying that Russia got Trump elected, and they're still doing it. So they're still going to play the Russia game. Regardless, this story that has been debunked and CNN is just going to let it fade away. But they're going to keep up the Russia thing and they're going to keep up the, did -- did the Russians get Trump elected? So, no, no one --
WATTERS: And 181 minutes, Katie, I mean, they've probably boosted their ratings quite a bit --
PAVLICH: Maybe.
WATTERS: -- when they're back to the Russia wall.
PAVLICH: I don't think it boosted the ratings, but --
WATTERS: Meaning, from zero to one.
PAVLICH: That's a nice thing for you to say about them. You know, the interesting thing to me is that CNN and Savannah Guthrie claim to be concerned about Russia interference in the election, but anytime she says and gives Russia credit for maybe tilting the election towards President Trump, she's actually emboldening Russian propaganda and giving Russia a win. And every single time that someone at CNN reports a story incorrectly and puts a source -- a CIA source at risk, and the Russians do think (INAUDIBLE) you know, that's a huge problem.
You're going -- you're setting up a situation where Americans are now debating about the Russia issue and tearing each other apart, politically, which the one thing in the Mueller report that we know is true, that was one of the Russians goal when they did the Facebook ads, and kind of the twitter troll farms was to sow dissent in America.
So every time the media acts like they're concerned about classified information, they're worried about protecting sources, they've actually exposed the source, and they actually emboldened the Russian propaganda by continuing to give Russia credit for something it didn't actually do.
WATTERS: And that goes to one of the theories, Dana, that's floating around right now, the person who was an asset in the Kremlin, people think that he was the one that gave all the disinformation about Donald Trump to Christopher Steele, which he cooked the dossier up. That's why he was had to have been brought out of that country as it broke.
PERINO: And so maybe that is why then CNN is clinging to their story?
WATTERS: Well, I think they're trying to get ahead of it now because the Durham investigation is on full tilt.
PERINO: Yeah, that would be -- everyone's on pins and needles waiting for that one to come out. I think when Secretary Rice talks about this it's worth listening, right? She understands Russians very well. And it's giving Russians way too much credit. It's building them up to up point of ridiculousness. The thing that she didn't say, she was very polite, didn't say it, which is that, if that were true, where was the Obama administration? Because they have responsibility for election security in the United States, and I don't know if that will be part of the Durham investigation.
But I feel like they kind of get off easy because no one really talks about it. We've talked about the media, no one else talks about that. The other thing I would point out is, back in the olden days, like ten years ago, there was really no way to fight back when a reporter wouldn't back down, even if you knew the story wasn't true. If they wouldn't retract it, you could complain a little bit. You could try to get it out there to people, but there was no twitter, there was no Facebook, there was no direct way to communicate directly to people to say that story is wrong. So I do think that it has helped -- social media has been a good leveling of the playing field.
WATTERS: So you like when the president tweets fake news?
WILLIAMS: No, I don't like. But let me just rebut some of this that I've heard here because I don't agree with it.
WATTERS: Don't worry, Juan.
WILLIAMS: One is, I think CNN -- I don't think that they have acted recklessly. They're standing by the story because they believe and they've said, partly responsible, that the anxiety over the fact that the president was having meetings in the oval office with the Russians. You know, later, this is a president who stood by Vladimir Putin, say, well, I believe him, not Americans --
(CROSSTALK)
WATTERS: Juan, even though the Washington Post, the New York Times, and the CIA, have all said that wasn't the case.
WILLIAMS: No, what they've said -- by the way, both the New York Times and CNN went to the administration before they ran their story and asked if we should this because there was no danger. The Russians knew this guy, knew where he was, so there's nobody's life was in danger. That's just not true. But what I would say is that you have a situation where CNN, when they were found to be wrong, I think it was a story about Scaramucci, they fired three people, including a Pulitzer-prize winner.
WATTERS: Well, they should fire the whole news --
WILLIAMS: I don't think --
WATTERS: -- they were wrong about Russia collusion.
WILLIAMS: No, they were not.
WATTERS: Really, Juan?
WILLIAMS: In other words --
WATTERS: Juan's clinging.
WILLIAMS: Are you kidding?
WATTERS: You're clinging.
WILLIAMS: This is what -- this is what I've said. You were talking -- you're acting like Russia didn't interfere, and it -- like, Russia --
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: Wait, hold it. And Russian propaganda didn't influence votes in this country?
WATTERS: Talking about collusion, not interference.
WILLIAMS: OK. And Obama didn't stand up and stand -- and we have a picture of Obama standing -- staring down at Putin and saying stop it --
WATTERS: Did it work?
WILLIAMS: -- and trying to get Mitch McConnell -- trying to get Mitch McConnell to -- let's put out a bipartisan statement --
PERINO: But all the blame -- all the blame ends up on --
(CROSSTALK)
PAVLICH: This is what the Russians want, guys, right here.
WATTERS: Last word, Dana?
PERINO: I've just said all the blame -- the Obama administration has been very skillful in trying to cast all of the blame against Trump and the Russians when they really were in charge of election security.
WILLIAMS: What would you have had them do? In other words --
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: Do you think Hillary Clinton thinks Obama should have done something more?
WILLIAMS: Yeah.
PERINO: Guaranteed.
WILLIAMS: And then, what would Trump and the Republicans have said? You're interfering -- you're putting your finger on the scale for Hillary.
WATTERS: So they were worried about politics, not national security. That's what I hear.
WILLIAMS: Thank you.
WATTERS: California's homeless crisis spiraling out of control with trash, rats, and threats of a plague. President Trump says he's ready to stop it. What he's planning to do, ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PAVLICH: President Trump has been railing against California's homeless crisis.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT: What they are doing to our beautiful California is a disgrace to our country. Look at Los Angeles with the tents and the horrible, horrible, disgusting conditions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAVLICH: And now he's ready to take action. The president sending a fact- finding team to the Golden State to figure out how to stop the epidemic of trash, rodent infestation, and threats of a plague outbreak, but local officials are telling him to stay away. A Democrat state senator saying, quote, Trump needs to back off and focus on his own mess of an administration.
So, Dana, it seems like though that the mayor's office in L.A. is welcoming them, at least to have a conversation --
PERINO: Well, they might need some help. Yeah, this is pretty interesting. Do you remember like the whole posse comitatus, remember that? Like can -- does the government come in to take care of something? Well, so what would be the reason? Is it because that there's a dangerous health problem? At some point, the government can't -- the federal government just go in unless they're invited to come in, or if the president decides there might be something actually that they could do.
He might also be saying we can help you. We have a plan. We know how to do -- I don't know what that is. I would be interested to find out. But I also think it's really interesting because the president is saying let's just do something. (INAUDIBLE) let's do something about it. Here's another thing that would be a result of it. I'm not saying this is why he's doing it. It could be the result of it.
Imagine you're in California, you're a taxpayer. You have had it. We have a couple of people here, Michael Loftus last week, Dr. Drew Pinsky, that we can't take it anymore. And the president says, well, I'll try -- I'll try to do something. You know that popular vote that Hillary Clinton won.
PAVLICH: Right.
PERINO: This could be something that actually helps President Trump. I'm not saying he's going to win the popular vote, but it could decrease that Democratic edge if he were able to win just a few more seats in California.
PAVLICH: So, Jesse, some of the ideas for -- under consideration are raising existing tent levels, camps for homeless, and creating new temporary facilities. As Dana said, the federal government would need permission to do that. But there has been talk about FEMA coming in because these encampments in places like L.A. are 30,000 people strong.
WATTERS: Yeah, imagine Trump sends FEMA in to California, though. It's just all hell would break loose.
PAVLICH: Not my idea.
WATTERS: I guarantee that. There have been so many parts of this country that Washington politicians have totally abandoned over the last couple of decades. The industrial Midwest, steel country, coil country, and now they're leaving behind large parts of these urban areas. If you look at Baltimore, north Philadelphia, south side of Chicago, downtown Los Angeles, Washington will show you so much love if you're like -- if you're producing, if you're innovating, you know, like the research triangle in North Carolina, getting so much love. Denver, Colorado, so much love. Silicon Valley, the navy yard here in Brooklyn. Showered with love and attention and funding.
But the minute the economic wind blows the other way, Washington is just like leaves them high and dry and hollowed out. And Trump is unique because he's going to these decaying parts of the country and he's saying we're going to revitalize this part of America, and here's how we're going to do it. He's not chasing the wind in the other direction.
I just wish Democrats would recognize this and look and say we can work with this president on certain issues. If he comes to homelessness, opioids, infrastructure, the NAFTA deal that's sitting on Nancy's desk decaying. If they could just wise up and think about how we could make America great again and get the politics out of it, we could get a lot of things done.
PAVLICH: Juan?
WILLIAMS: Wow. Get the politics out of it. The problem is that Republicans have been using -- weaponizing this issue to go after Democrats as, politically, the ones in control of big cities that are having problems with the homeless.
PAVLICH: Well, they are.
WILLIAMS: And in the course of it, then demonizing people who are addicts, or traumatized veterans, or people who are mentally ill.
WATTERS: I disagree with that strongly, Juan.
WILLIAMS: Hang on, let me finish. I just think that's deplorable, but I must say I have been on this show encouraging that if the President is sincere, if he's serious, well then offer ideas, go out there, take a look, see what you can do, because--
SHILLUE: But they say don't come.
WILLIAMS: He has not done that. He has been using it as a political attack and I saw - I think if it's more than a political attack, why not open their heart. If you're a Democrat or a big city leader, and say, well, Mr. President, do you have ideas that we haven't thought of. Do you have funding that you can bring to the table that would achieve something?
I mean to me the bigger story and again, an indication of how this is being politicized by the Republicans in the Trump, the bigger story today is the fact that we have more people who don't have health insurance in the country than in the last decade. But that doesn't get the attention. That's not politically beneficial to Trump.
KATIE PAVLICH, PANELIST: Speaking of politics, if these local officials were to invite the Trump administration and it would be an admission that things are out of control that their own policies have failed and that they need help from Republican President, so that might be part of the reason why they're not inviting him.
SHILLUE: Well also, so they invite him and then try out his solutions and if they don't work, they can say, oh, look his solutions didn't work either. He was all full of hot air. I wish I printed out my headlines and I left them up outside my office by the printer.
New York Times headline, Trump plans crack down on homeless. Washington Post, crackdown. They book used the word crackdown. There is no crackdown. I'm trying to think of the headline if it was the Obama administration offering assistance to California. I think the headline would have been, Obama administration offers assistance to California.
WATTERS: It's true.
PAVLICH: Jesse, shouldn't there be some headlines that say something like Democrats in San Francisco enable homelessness problem?
WATTERS: No, they don't write critical stories about that. They only criticize Republicans who has an idea to fix it.
WILLIAMS: Wait a second, how does anybody enable someone who is mentally ill or addicted to be homeless.
PAVLICH: There is plenty of enabling going on in places like San Francisco and LA by Democrat officials who want to make it easier for homeless people to live on the streets rather than getting them.
SHILLUE: It's true. Dr. Drew talks about it all the time.
PAVLICH: Rather than getting the mental health--
WILLIAMS: Oh! Yes. And the plague is coming, Tom. The plague and the rats. Oh! My God. This is - I mean it's just offensive that you would treat human being--
PAVLICH: It's true.
WATTERS: Juan, we showed video of rats scurrying all over the place.
WILLIAMS: You can show video--
WATTERS: Did you not watched the video?
WILLIAMS: You can show video of rats scurrying outside the studio.
PAVLICH: What more offensive enabling and saying--
WATTERS: I haven't seen any rats outside the studio.
PERINO: Well, here's an example - here something the federal government could do. One of the problems that you have the rats is because people are illegally dumping their trash in those areas and the federal government, the U.S. attorney's office could possibly work with local officials there and prosecute those offenders and make it really count. A federal offense rather than just a state offense.
SHILLUE: Rats can actually hold a slice of pizza. We've seen that video.
WATTERS: Pizza rat.
WILLIAMS: Yes. That was any homeless guy.
PAVLICH: All right. Well, a massive new lawsuit brewing in America's war on opioids. Details on that when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WILLIAMS: A major new battle in America's opioid crisis. New York's governor Andrew Cuomo announcing plans for a massive lawsuit against drug makers. He's accusing these companies of causing "immeasurable damage." The governor also claiming drug producers have been ripping off his state to the tune of $2 billion. But other stories, well, they're raising concerns if this fight might be going too far.
A new Washington Post story says the opioid crackdown is forcing chronic pain patients, people who need the drugs to taper off them. And the maker of OxyContin, Purdue Pharma reportedly now reaching a $12 billion agreement to settle thousands of opioid cases.
Dana, not only that, apparently the Sackler family loses control of Purdue Pharma now and there's going to be a trust--
PERINO: I think they probably want to lose control of--
WILLIAMS: Do you think they want out?
PERINO: I think a $12 billion settlement. Well, it looks like it would hurt a lot. It's not going to cover what these cities, states and some of the counties also are asking for. It's pretty amazing how many lawsuits have been filed against them because everyone is chasing this and so they're looking for a consolidation because there's not - they do not have enough money to actually pay out all of those claims.
But if Purdue decides to make that decision, enter in the settlement that hopefully will go a long way. I do think that this is a really interesting problem though about what's happening to people who actually do have chronic pain.
Purdue Pharma, whatever the culpability, whatever they admit to, set that aside. There is a black market problem. There is an illegal market problem and that has caused people who deserve the care that they can be given to have to suffer.
That's really wrong. Imagine - and we don't have - we don't live with chronic pain. We don't know what that's like. It absolutely destroys your life. And so, what I pray for is an amazing innovation, something that will deal with people's pain in a way that doesn't cause the additional problems. But I also think that the federal government's crackdown on the black market and the illegal mixing of these drugs is so critical beyond this settlement. That has to keep going.
WILLIAMS: This is a really interesting conversation, Katie because in fact there are people who need pain medication, but at the same time, we're talking public policy. And without a doubt, we've had an opioid epidemic. So, how do you balance it. And are we at the point where we should be concerned about individuals who say I need the medication versus the large number of people who we know have become addicted if not dying from the abuse of opioids.
PAVLICH: Well, the first thing is that Dennis Prager's stepson's father, he talked about on his radio show committed suicide because he was not able to get proper opioid treatment for severe--
PERINO: He was so painful, in pain.
PAVLICH: And so, there is a very serious consequence to overdoing it on one side. On the front end, they're assigning and prescribing these opioids and not thinking about what the consequences may be and telling people that they need them and over-prescribing them.
And so, you have all these efforts to throw extras away. You didn't use all of them to keep them out of the hands of kids, all that kind of thing. But the pharmacy companies are just the surface of this. I think they have to look at the insurance companies as well. Because when you go in to get an MRI now and this has happened to someone I know, you go into get MRI for too young or there is some reason they don't want to do it. They'll say, we know that you're in a lot of pain, you have to wait for six months.
We're going to give you opioids until that period and if you're still having a problem then we will grant you the MRI, even though you have health insurance and or you can pay out of pocket for it.
PERINO: Wow.
PAVLICH: So, the insurance companies aren't paying for things that would maybe fix the problem through some other means and they are - then the doctors are assigning opioids to people who will then take them and become addicted.
WILLIAMS: Jesse, where do you come out on this one?
WATTERS: The quality was a curse. These brilliant manufacturers at these pharmaceutical companies have these amazing scientists and they poured hundreds of millions of dollars into R&D and they created this perfect pill. It was so good; it was too good. And then it was over-prescribed, begin to a car accident. Here's a pill, you're back from Iraq and Afghanistan, use the pill.
Your back hurts from working in a factory, here's 20 pills. And it was over-prescribed, and it floods the market, especially the black market. It gets out on the street and everybody gets hooked and starts dying. So, you can't put the genie back in the bottle, because there is a legitimate need for it. So, the only people that can solve it are the lawyers.
So, now lawyers on both sides of this are going to get so rich.
PERINO: Right.
WATTERS: Figuring this out. And the only way I can think about doing this are a few things. You go after these illicit distribution networks. There is like one small town, population 40 in West Virginia and there's like a zillion pills in this one little pill mill that's totally corrupt.
You also have to limit the dosages and the purity and the quantity because you don't need a quadrillion pill out there in America. You need to limit that to a certain extent. I know this sounds corny, but there has to be an alternative maybe non-western healing method. That's not a narcotic.
PERINO: Vaping.
WATTERS: Not vaping, I'm not saying yoga, but there's got to be something they can maybe deter--
PERINO: Acupuncture.
WATTERS: Pain.
SHILLUE: Marianne. Marianne's on the line.
WATTERS: To a certain extent.
SHILLUE: She wants to talk to you.
WATTERS: You also going to get hit for that.
WILLIAMS: Tom, I'm just going to come to you and say that when - there is one state, Connecticut that's refusing to join in the settlement and guess why. They say they want more of the personal fortune that the Sackler's amassed put into this settlement. They say the Sackler's haven't put enough of their skin in the game. Are we making them into villains unfairly?
SHILLUE: Yes. Well, it's very easy, it's very easy to go after the usual suspects round them up and sue them. You know they're going to make this deal. They're going to - everybody wants to settle these things because that's what you do. You want to get it out of the way. But I think that that's not going to make the problem go away. I think we're all singing the same tune here.
It is an overcorrection. We shouldn't overcorrect it. Doctors should not be afraid to prescribe pain medication. And so, the crackdown is going to be worse than the epidemic itself because there are people who need these medications. Every time we talk about this, people tweet, I'm in pain, please help support me. People feel very strongly about this.
PERINO: Well, what's really troubling is that they are in pain, when you're in pain you get desperate, when you're desperate. If you can't get it legally, you will find it illegally. And that's when you have this artificial counterfeit stuff coming in.
PAVLICH: Exactly.
SHILLUE: Yes.
WILLIAMS: That is a terrible - it's an important conversation for us all to have. Hollywood actress Debra Messing is at it again, see why she's facing more backlash. That's next right here on The Five.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SHILLUE: Anti-Trump Hollywood liberal Debra Messing is at it again fresh off her call to out Trump donors. She's now raising eyebrows for retweeting an outrageous insult against the President's family. The tweet calling Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner national security threats. Wow. Jesse, look I feel bad for Debra Messing and I'll tell you why in a minute but let's make fun of her for a little while first.
WATTERS: Why would you go to me for that? I think Debra Messing should just stay off Twitter. You know take the L from last week. Cool off. Listen to your group, your entourage knows what's best. I would go on a little hiatus. Call it a Twitter vacation. Then come back refreshed and you can kind of dip your toes back in.
SHILLUE: Yes. Does she have an entourage? What makes you say that they--
WATTERS: All these Hollywood people have people, you know that. You're half Hollywood.
SHILLUE: After last week.
WATTERS: Yes, she's got publicist, she's got manager, she's got lawyers.
SHILLUE: Yes. Dana--
PAVLICH: And they all agree with her.
SHILLUE: Here's why I feel bad.
WATTERS: That's true. She's being enabled.
SHILLUE: She's in the bubble. Remember the boy in plastic bubble that was the John Travolta film, he didn't know what the world outside was like and that's what she is like.
PERINO: So, you feel bad for her?
SHILLUE: I feel bad that she's going to continue doing this, because she doesn't know the world outside her bubble.
PERINO: Attention is a hell of a drug. Right? She last week when we all were like, wow, she's had a terrible week. She actually thought she had a great week.
WATTERS: She did.
PERINO: Don't you think?
WATTERS: You think this has been good for her career?
PERINO: No. I think it's good for her attention level.
WATTERS: Yes.
PERINO: Right.
WATTERS: Yes, she likes the attention.
PERINO: It wasn't like oh wait, I touched the hot stove, I shouldn't do that again. Now she's like oh, I know what I'll do, I'll add the President's children to it.
SHILLUE: Yes.
PERINO: She just wants attention.
SHILLUE: Juan, do you know anyone else who impulsively tweets to get attention and never learns their lesson? Is there anyone else like that?
WILLIAMS: Tom, I'm streaming. Can you help me--
SHILLUE: I just threw that over the place, Juan.
WILLIAMS: This is like one of Tom's quizzes. He knows he's got me. But here look, Debra Messing, Jim Carrey says some crazy stuff. I'm just amused that you guys pay so much attention because I am on their side of the aisle and I think these people have no relevance to a political conversation.
To me it's like when the Right gets focused on Jon Voight or Kid Rock right or who else do you guys love to pay attention to?
PERINO: Clint Eastwood.
WILLIAMS: Kanye West, Clint Eastwood - Kanye West. And I'm thinking you know I really - I don't take political advice or consult from these folks, but I think it then becomes like anybody in Hollywood who has a platform who affirms my position or I'm going to like them.
But I think it then becomes like anybody in Hollywood who has a platform, who affirms my position or I'm going to like them but anyone who contradicts me, I'm going to say--
WATTERS: Wait Juan, when Clint Eastwood was up there at the RNC doing his thing, you were all over that. And Kanye West, you were all over that. You didn't act like that was no big deal.
WILLIAMS: Who invited them up there. That was the ridiculous part. Even to this in fact--
WATTERS: I think he was invited.
WILLIAMS: I think - yes, by who? The Republicans. By Romney.
WATTERS: Yes.
WILLIAMS: I think a lot of people said that was a mistake. They shouldn't have done it, but it opened the door.
PAVLICH: Like the one guy in Hollywood who was actually a conservative. It's a mistake for him to show up.
WILLIAMS: Kid Rock, Ted Nugent, believe me Ted Nugent is coming up.
PAVLICH: Compared to the population of Leftist in Hollywood. It's a very tiny percent of people.
WILLIAMS: My point is none of them, I don't see why we pay attention to any unless it's to mock them.
PAVLICH: Fair enough.
SHILLUE: Katie, what is the thing - what is the Jared thing. Is that something I don't know about, who's calling them national security.
PAVLICH: I don't want to turn the segment into a wonky situation.
SHILLUE: Yes.
PAVLICH: We're supposed to have fun right now.
PERINO: But you and I are very good at it. You and I can get right down into--
WATTERS: I want to know why is he a security threat.
PAVLICH: The security clearance drama with how they got their security clearances and whether they got them because the President went around the system and demanded--
WATTERS: He's bringing peace to the Middle East, guys. He's lessening the national security.
WILLIAMS: I forgot; I must have missed that headline. We have a peace plan now.
WATTERS: Yes.
SHILLUE: All right. One More Thing is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PERINO: Time now for One More Thing. Juan?
WILLIAMS: All right, guys, did you notice anything about yesterday's date September 10th. Well, yesterday was the first of 10 straight days in which every day will be a palindrome. Yes, for non-nerds out there that means you can write the dates backwards and it will still be the same date.
Take a look at how this amazing run of dates look when written in reverse, it's on the screen. This week of palindromes is a once in a lifetime event. Now personally, I always noticed the rush of people to get married on dates like 7/7/17 or 8/8/18. Well, we could have a week of celebrations coming up in the few days left on that 10 day run. My attention was called to this nerd fest by meteorologist Tyler Linder (ph). Thanks, so much for the crazy--
PERINO: Riveting.
PAVLICH: That's awesome.
WILLIAMS: That was awesome.
SHILLUE: I love palindromes.
PERINO: I love a palindrome but maybe not to leave One More Thing. Kidding, everybody. I want to talk about this though. Four military working dogs were honored for their service at American Humane's Fourth Annual Canine Medal of Courage award ceremony. That was in Washington last night. One of them was Sergeant Yaeger (ph), this is a black lab trained as an IED detection dog who survived a 2012 explosion that did take the life of his handler unfortunately.
Nico is a Dutch Shepherd, also honored. Niko went on over 600 missions in Afghanistan sniffing out IEDs. He also protected embassies and the U.S. dignitaries that visited. And this is a ceremony that allows all Americans a chance to see what these unsung heroes do every day. The other dogs honored include Troll, that's a Dutch Shepherd. He conducted 89 missions with the Air Force and Emmy, she is a black lab. She was detecting IEDs in Afghanistan. So, they're cute and they also do a lot of great work for us, patriots indeed.
PAVLICH: Awesome.
PERINO: Jesse.
WATTERS: Another cute story, a little student in Oklahoma City got the ultimate surprise. Take a look at this nine-year old. Trey was blindfolded, spun around a bunch of times, he had no idea what was coming next until they take off the blindfold.
PAVLICH: Oh! Dear.
WATTERS: It's his dad. His father is in the Air Force, he's been deployed overseas for many, many months and they've got to reunite. So that was very touching. You know what else is touching Dana? Wednesday's with Watters on Martha MacCallum 7 PM m. Eastern. But even more touching, Thursdays with Watters on Dana Perino show, “The Daily Briefing.”
PERINO: So, would you think it was touching if you were on with Juan too.
WATTERS: Sure. Juan can--
PERINO: It's going to be very touching.
WATTERS: I'll reach out and touch Juan all day.
WILLIAMS: This is an exercise in vanity. I'm on this show. I'm on that show.
PAVLICH: Promotion.
PERINO: Katie, do you have anything to promote?
PAVLICH: I will be on “Fox and Friends.” OK. Back to our One More Thing. So, obviously tributes from all around the world are pouring in for 9/11. But take a look at this powerful performance by New Zealand firefighters.
(VIDEO PLAYING)
PAVLICH: So, the firefighters are performing a traditional ceremonial dance known as the Haka under the sky tower in Auckland which happens to be the tallest free standing structure in the southern hemisphere.
Senator Scott Brown who is now the U.S. Ambassador to New Zealand and Samoa tweeted out the video and after the performance more than 200 firefighters took place part in this stair climb up that tower to remember the sacrifice that the firefighters--
WATTERS: The Scott Brown.
PAVLICH: The Scott Brown.
WATTERS: From Massachusetts.
PAVLICH: That guy. The Haka.
PERINO: What you've got, you've got this weird thing.
SHILLUE: It's got to be weird. The iPhone 11 Pro is kind of triggering potential customers who suffer from Trio phobia. You see the three circles; Trio phobia is when people see groups of circles grouped together it gives them anxiety.
WATTERS: No way.
SHILLUE: It's so - the thing is.
WATTERS: No.
SHILLUE: It seems weird. It's a real thing. I've heard a lot about this, and I would never be triggered by these three circles, but I almost get it when you have a lot of circles--
PERINO: It's about the honeycomb and then you have danger, danger, danger Will Robinson in your bed.
SHILLUE: Yes.
WILLIAMS: It sounds like Area 51.
WATTERS: You know palindrome--
PERINO: All right. Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of “The Five.” “Special Report” is up next. Hey, Bret.
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