'Death tax' set for Senate showdown

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," April 17, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Eric along with Kimberly, Juan, Dana and Greg. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

So yesterday, the House voted to repeal the estate tax, also known as the death tax, setting the stage for a showdown in the Senate. President Obama threatened to veto that legislation and as usual is making hardworking Americans, successful Americans, the bad guys.


BARACK OBAMA, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA PRESIDENT: They are also pushing a new $270 billion tax cut for the very wealthiest of the wealthiest. It would affect about 5,000 families all across America for $270 billion, which is the cost approximately of the tax breaks that I'm giving to 44 million people.

Their plan would cut taxes for the top one-tenth of 1 percent unless taxes go up on 25 million working families and students. And my view is we don't need tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires. I don't need a tax cut.


BOLLING: So you work your whole life, you build up few assets or a successful business, and President Obama and the liberals think they are entitled to steal a huge chunk of it. I wonder where he got that idea.


OBAMA: If you've been successful, you didn't get that on your own. If you've got a business, you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen.


BOLLING: So President Obama kind of like the Gordon Gekko of government.


MICHAEL DOUGLAS, AMERICAN ACTOR: The point is, ladies and gentlemen, that greed, for lack of a better word, is good.


BOLLING: So, Dana, why on God's green earth do politicians think after you work your whole life they can steal 40 more percent of it?

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Partly because the government is an insatiable beast that has to continually be fed. If there was ever a reason for tax reform, it is not just this one, but this whole month when everybody is working feverishly to pay their taxes, the date for this year was April 18th, everybody works from January 1st to April 18th, all of that money up until then goes to the government and then you get to keep the rest of the money that you're earning. I think tax reform is the answer and so is economic growth. I think that that's the most important thing. The more growth we would have in the economy, the better the treasury would be and the better workers would be and the more money people would have to invest.

BOLLING: I'm sorry. So the estate is taxed to 40 percent over $5 million. It's an individual and $10 million if it's a couple, but that's money that's already been taxed.



BOLLING: They've already been through the ringer once.


GUTFELD: It's double-dipping on the dead. It's corpse robbery without the shovel. But here's -- you know, this is where -- this is how wrong president Obama is. If it's only a few thousand families, so why should you care? It is only a few -- it's only 5,000 families, why should you care? That's his argument. It works in the reverse. Why should you care? Why are you doing this? If it's just so minimal, $22 million -- $22 billion every year, why is it a big deal? It is because -- the reason why it's so specifically focused on a small number of people is because if they get it any wider there would be hell to pay. We know it's theft. What he's counting on is the pettiness of human envy that people will say, "I agree with you, President Obama. That's not me." His philosophy is if it's not you and it's them, who the hell cares? He's preying on the sickest part of humanity which is, they are rich, screw them. You can do that to anybody.

BOLLING: You know, Juan, sometimes these businesses -- the owners of these businesses, they've been in the family for years. They put all of their money back into it. They reinvest all the money back into the business. So when someone dies and they want to leave it to an heir, they are charged 40 percent of the value. Sometimes they get -- in the case of farmers, sometimes they have to sell farmland.

PERINO: Yes. Because they are land rich and cash poor.


PERINO: So they have to sell off the land in order to pay for death tax.

BOLLING: You like this idea of death tax?

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: I like an inheritance tax if that's what you mean.


WILLIAMS: Yes. I think death tax is a loaded language. I mean if I keel over, I hope to take care of the kids. But I think that this is a situation where Republicans are looking after what President Obama rightly call super rich people. I mean it.

GUTFELD: It's a principle one.

WILLIAMS: Oh, that's a good way to put it, Greg. I think you're onto something. I don't think it's about the 5,000 people. I don't think it's -- I mean these are people, you know, more than -- you know, the only time you pay this tax is if you're more than 5 million, and as you said, 10 million if you're a couple. That's a tiny -- I think it's less.

BOLLING: It's 5,400 couples or situations.

WILLIAMS: So it's less than 0.10 percent. So what? Very little.


KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: What difference does that make? If you're saying no.

WILLIAMS: It makes a difference because if you take away that revenue, Kimberly, then that means you cannot have.


WILLIAMS: You have to - you have to find that money for the government from somebody else. You can't have the.


GUTFELD: Argue the principle then.


GUTFELD: If you said I was right on principle, argue the principle.

WILLIAMS: Yes. The principle is -- and this is really what interests me -- is that I think that people who earn money should in fact be able to give it to kids and all of that. But at some point you do have to have a cutoff. We shouldn't be supporting the Paris Hiltons and say, "Oh, you don't -- the middle class is going to have to work harder to pay more taxes but you, Paris Hilton, you get all of that money. Take it all."




GUTFELD: You see what that mentality is. That's an -- that's punitive based on envy. It's punitive. I don't like Paris Hilton because she's rich, take the money.

Williams: No, no, no. I believe in America that, Eric, you, Dana and I, you know what? Get out there and hustle. You got smarts. You got an advantage to be born to great Gutfeld. So you have advantages from birth. It doesn't you don't have to get billions and billions.

BOLLING: But if there is one thing president Obama said there, it's -- what did you call it? It's a revenue flow or revenue.

WILLIAMS: There is added revenue.

BOLLING: It's not. It's taxes. Those people earned that money themselves.

GUILFOYLE: Well, it's -- and it's punishment. It's punishment for families to say we're going to pick on you. We're going to single you out because for some reason or another your family has been good at making money. It's not a good enough reason to say, "We're going to this because we don't like the Paris Hiltons of the world." That defeats your whole argument. Tell me why it's a good policy, why you it is good for the economy, why you think that's it's better that the government can do a better job with that money than leaving it with the family that might reinvest it into the revenue stream that might open more businesses or employ more people. Why isn't that OK? Why is it okay to penalize hardworking families like farm families? When they first had the land, it's worth this much. There's been land value appreciation, farm equipment and a lot of those families fall into this group. And then they can't continue on with their family business. That's a real example of who this impacts in America today, not Paris Hilton on a tractor.

WILLIAMS: OK. Let me - let me - let me just say I -- because I'm really taking this quite seriously, I appreciate what you're saying.

GUILFOYLE: Thank you.

WILLIAMS: I went and I looked and I said, "Well, how many farm families really have to really pay this tax?" Because what I was saying earlier to Eric was, you know, it's really a small -- it's less than a tenth of a percent of Americans have to ever pay this tax because it's 5 million, 10 million if you're a couple. It says here only 0.6 percent of farmers pays - - needed to pay this tax in 2013. So we're not really talking about.

GUILFOYLE: But that's because not enough farm people didn't die to.



PERINO: Is that the problem?


BOLLING: It's the old line. It's the old class warfare though. As Greg points out, pick on the wealthy because their an easy target because there are so many people don't have that stature.


WILLIAMS: But doesn't the government have to support itself somehow?

GUTFELD: I don't think the government deserves to take money from the dead. This isn't about expanding government. This is about creating, in a sense, more division. What it does to is it is a great thing for an election. Right now, you've got four people here defending really, really rich people. The less loves that. And if they can get a politician.

PERINO: And we're not even them.

GUTFELD: I know. Exactly. Well, speak for yourself. That's my underwater mansion.

BOLLING: Just wait till that book comes out.

GUTFELD: Yes. Exactly.

PERINO: I think the principle that really bothers me is the fact that it's double taxed.


PERINO: And that's the problem. If the government wants to be honest about it, then try to pass a bill, Mr. President, that would raise those taxes on those -- on the income taxes while they are living.

GUILFOYLE: But she's right.

PERINO: From the investments -- I mean if the liberals want to actually try to capture this money from very wealthy people, they should do it while they're living and try to be honest about it. But they are not doing that because a lot of those rich people that fall into that category are actually Democratic supporters. John Kerry.

BOLLING: And they still vote.


BOLLING: The liberal mentality -- the liberal mentality is that everything belongs to the state.


BOLLING: Why don't they take 100 percent? And it's all.

GUILFOYLE: Because it's entitlement and it's all of -- yes. I mean really why don't you? Why don't you just leave us 1 percent and we can just, you know, live off.

GUTFELD: 1 percent for the 1 percent.

GUILFOYLE: . of top - you know, top rank (ph) in everyday. I don't - the problem is come up with a good solution. Comprehensive tax reform did make sense and works for all Americans. Don't single out and punish people because they've been good at getting the green. Why don't you think about, "Hey. I want to make sure that you and you and your family can get good at getting the green too." So let's do what we can to stimulate the economy. Let's not penalize and over regulate small businesses or entrepreneurship so people aren't saying, "You know what? I don't like Obamacare. I don't like this. I can't afford to have more employees." That is what is wrong with this thinking. This is such a populous, pathetic type attack to say I just want to punish the rich.

WILLIAMS: You know, I'm not - I'm not.


GUILFOYLE: There's no good sound economic principle behind it.

WILLIAMS: Let me just say -- you know, a friend of mine once said, "Juan, any time you need a job, who do you go ask? You go ask someone who is rich, someone who own as company, someone who is providing in our society, a capitalist." So I'm a capitalist. I'm all for it, Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: I feel for you.

WILLIAM: But I am not -- when I have - when I live in a country where we have increasing levels of poverty, even as we're doing better these days, we have high levels of poverty. We have lots of people on food stamps. We've got military in need and we've got sequestration. I'm thinking.


WILLIAMS: Somebody has got to pay for all this. And you know what? We.


GUTFELD: That's not enough -- you obviously think that taxing these families -- that's not what it supposed - that's not what it's about. It's not about helping the military.

GUILFOYLE: It's not.


GUTFELD: It's just about pouring more money into the government because you can.

WILLIAMS: What is government to you?

GUTFELD: Government is incredibly valuable.

WILLIAMS: Oh, thank you.

GUTFELD: I actually believe in paying taxes.

WILLIAMS: All right. So what you're saying?

GUTFELD: But this - but no. This is about making that the -- making Republicans look evil.

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: The more that we can sit there and defend -- I'm defending a principle. I'm not defending the rich. I believe that this is actual fact (ph)

WILLIAMS: I think you're onto something. I appreciate this argument because OK so you're defending the principle and not the rich but yesterday what we saw in the House was all the while many Republicans said (inaudible) argument in terms of you're stealing from the rich. Why are Republicans doing that to themselves?

GUTFELD: Well, stealing from the rich, it is -- that's -- it's true. But the principle is, going back, you are actually taking something that has been taxed. That is actual theft. If this person who spent 30 years of his life, 40 years of his life and working and paying taxes every single year, dies, and then this guy shows up and says, I want more. He's stealing from that - he's stealing from the dead.

BOLLING: Technically stealing from him while he's living and then steals the rest of the -- a good portion of it when he dies. Dana, Juan points out it's only a small percentage of households but guess what? The $26 billion or $25 billion a year is a very small percentage of what we spend a year.

PERINO: Very tiny. But the other thing is I think that you have to think about farms -- just think of farm families, for example. I realize it's a small number but do you realize how many farms are shrinking in America?


PERINO: The family farm is so important. The corporate farms are one thing, right? That's how I understand it. There's a whole argument against that. I grew up in a rural environment. That kind of upbringing and the values that you learn there and those people want to - they worked extremely hard. They work harder than anybody I know.


PERINO: They're up early. They actually have no security, right? They have to work hard and pray that there is going to be enough rain and there's going to be enough sun and that the crop is going to come in and calves are going to be born. To tax them twice is - that's a principle that is unacceptable.

GUILFOYLE: Cruel. Yes.

PERINO: It should be unacceptable in America. Farm families deserve more support.

BOLLING: And by the way.

PERINO: Thank God we have the system that of the government that we have so that farm families are actually represented well rather than the coastal greed attacking them.

GUILFOYLE: I agree. God bless our farms.

PERINO: Thank you for ending that.

BOLLING: On that note.

WILLIAMS: You know, you looked like you've been farm fed to me.

GUILFOYLE: You know it. Beef it up. Yes.

BOLLING: Coming up. Actress, Gwyneth Paltrow wanted to show her solidarity with the poor by going on a food stamp budget for a week, but she's back to eating like a celebrity after throwing in the towel after four days. Her food stamp fail just ahead.


PERINO: The Obama administration has been telling us that ISIS has been pushed back in Iraq.


JOE BIDEN, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA VICE PRESIDENT: Critics have made a number of claims regarding our policy in Iraq. We read that ISIL remains in a commanding position inside of Iraq. But Iran and its proxies are leading the fight against ISIL and that they are dominating Iraq. There's just one problem with these critiques. The claims do not reflect the circumstances on the ground. They don't reflect Iraq's progress against ISIL, incomplete but significant and growing.


PERINO: But the terror network is now closing in on the western city of Ramadi. The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is playing down on events (ph).


MARTIN DEMPSEY, PENTAGON CHIEF: The city itself is not symbolic in any way. It's not been declared, you know, part of the caliphate on one hand or the central to the future of Iraq. The issue here is not -- is not bricks and mortar. It's about defeating ISIL. So as I said, you know, I would much rather that Ramadi not fall but it won't be the end of a campaign should it fall. We've got to get it back.


PERINO: But retired four-star general, Jack Keane disagrees.


JACK KEANE, RETIRED FOUR-STAR GENERAL: He's just flat wrong here. I mean symbolically, Ramadi matters. It's the capital of the largest province in Iraq. It's the major Sunni province in Iraq and we cannot reclaim Iraq or have a stable Iraq politically without Sunni participation. This suggestion that we could lose their capital makes no sense.


PERINO: Kimberly?


PERINO: Do you think the administration is not playing it straight?

GUILFOYLE: Well, I mean, either that or they are just like sleeping in too much, not reading the intelligence report. And I don't want to impugn (ph) like bad motives or ill intentions on them, but at a certain point -- I mean the only other thing is perhaps they are just confused because they keep calling it ISIL and we're talking about ISIS. And maybe they're confusing the groups all together and this is just a big misunderstanding, Uncle Joe. I'm with the general on this with Jack Keane. This is very serious. The fact that we could be losing a place like Ramadi, which is key and integral to the area and the region, should be alarming to the administration and there should be immediate and swift response to make sure because, otherwise, we're stepping in after the fact and that's not good enough. We're letting too many things happen. They are gaining too much ground when we should be pre-empting this and be far more strategic about it.

PERINO: Don't you get the feeling, Greg, that if ISIS had already captured Ramadi and U.S.-led coalition forces were taking it back, that the spin from the administration would be that we are retaking a key post in the war?

GUTFELD: Yes. Exactly. The other thing too is symbolically it means something because American servicemen died there. That makes it very symbolic to the families of the lost ones there. If ISIS is truly the JV team then Hurricane Katrina was a spring shower, it's always going to be about language. And whenever President Obama and his administration hear about ISIS, they lose the oxygen necessary for what matters to them most, which is climate change. That's why they find this to be nuisance. When he was talking in Italy, he was -- he spent a lot of time on climate change. If we could hypnotize President Obama in depicting that ISIS is a gas- guzzling SUV, this war would be over. But this is what happens when the world's most powerful nation takes their eyes off the road. We're now paying the pricing. It's like the dad more interested in the kids fighting in the back seat.

GUILFOYLE: You're so right. This is the key. He has to be hypnotized.


GUILFOYLE: I'm not kidding. That may be the only hope.

GUTFELD: Then maybe (ph) Preston can do it.

GUILFOYLE: Preston could do it for sure and we just have to like tie up Valerie Jarrett for a second so we can get this done and spin it back around in the right direction.


PERINO: I've been wondering though, Eric, if maybe we should give the administration a little more time because they say that their strategy is working and that they need a little bit more time to make it work. I'm trying to put myself in their shoes and be generous to them. Are you buying it?

BOLLING: So they -- apparently they say that they pushed the ISIS territory back by 25 percent. They said that's working given the time. The concern is Ramadi is right in the very middle of Iraq. Now, they are also - ISIS is just helping Ramadi and also Baiji. Baiji has oil. It's oil rich. It has a refinery right there. So they're fighting back ISIS there and apparently holding them back, but they're not so sure about Ramadi. Ramadi, everything happens from the middle out, right? So Ramadi is easy for ISIS. There's -- it's all land and wide open. We really have to draw a line at Ramadi because if they go south from Ramadi, that's where all of the oil is. If they get access to the southern oil fields of Iraq where 2 million barrels of oil a day are produced and access to the Persian Gulf to sell the oil, there's going to be -- look at it. There's the picture right there. That southern part of Iraq towards the Persian Gulf, you have -- they have to draw a line right through the middle of the country and say no ISIS below this line at any cost, and hopefully, they are.

GUILFOYLE: Not a red line. God, they are color blind to red. Red lines, don't see them.

PERINO: Juan, what would you suggest that the administration try to do to ask the American people for more time before they start thinking that this is something that the administration doesn't have a handle on?

WILLIAMS: Well, I think that the, you know, the administration doesn't clearly has a handle because the United States, our powerful military, could wipe out ISIS.

PERINO: And why doesn't it?

WILLIAMS: Because what you're trying to do I think is assert the idea that Iraqi forces should control their own territory and make sure that that military is together enough to.


PERINO: So we're allowing ISIS to grow like a cancer because we want to wait to make sure that the Iraqis can do it themselves?

WILLIAMS: No. I think what General Dempsey said was, in fact, we are pushing them back. They are having some success in Tikrit. But even there, we think -- the United States government thinks that the Iraqi forces are able to push them back. The key point that Eric was making is you want to make sure that they don't get access to the oil because that would allow them to have revenue to grow.

PERINO: But why do we let it get to this point?

GUILFOYLE: Thank you.

PERINO: I mean wee could with our air power.

WILLIAMS: Yes. But then you wouldn't have Iraq standing on its own feet, and you know, this comes back to my argument -- my ongoing argument with you is we don't want to be in the nation building business.

GUILFOYLE: But let me tell you something. So what is this now? We're in the tough love business? Is this going to hurt me more than you, Iraq? Come on. Step in. Do something. God.

GUTFELD: Fighting terror is -- should not be conflated with expansionism. We're not buildings nations.


GUTFELD: We're just killing creeps.

WILLIAMS: Yes. But if you do it and the other guys says, "Oh, you know what, Greg?"

GUILFOYLE: Just do it.

WILLIAMS: "Hey, Greg. Come on back. Greg, we can use you again, Greg."


GUTFELD: I know a lot of people that would do it.


PERINO: Juan, maybe we shouldn't -- maybe we shouldn't have done it prematurely before they were ready to work with them.

GUILFOYLE: Right. And that's the problem though. The stakes are too high to lead this to an experiment now. This is the real deal. Anybody within the intelligence background knows that this is the worst group ISIS that we have ever faced in the Middle East. So get real once again.

BOLLING: Until Iran starts something.

GUILFOYLE: Well, yes.

BOLLING: And boy.



PERINO: On that note, we're going to go. She knew a camera was rolling and she kept going anyway. Now, an ESPN reporter is suspended now after video surfaced of her car towing tantrum. You're going to see that next.


GUILFOYLE: All right. You should always be nice to everyone. You know it. Perhaps ESPN's Britt McHenry has learned that now after being suspended by the network when this video surfaced from lashing out at a parking lot attendant.


BRITT MCHENRY, ESPN REPORTER: I'm in the, sweetheart, I will (beep) sue this place.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. That's fine. I will play your video. So careful. I'll play (inaudible).

MCHENRY: That's why I have a degree and you don't. Do you feel good about your job? So I could be a college dropout and do the same thing? Why? Because I have a brain and you don't.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Goes right there.

MCHENRY: Maybe if I was missing some teeth they would hire me huh?


MCHENRY: Oh, like yours? Because they look so stunning. Because I'm on television and you're on a (beep) trailer, honey. Lose some weight, baby girl.


MCHENRY: Well, McHenry has since apologized saying she allowed her emotions to get the best of her in a very stressful moment and she's going to learn from this mistake. Greg, you seem to have sometimes on occasion anger management issues.

GUTFELD: This is going to happen to all of us. Mark my words. When I'm at a bodega late at night and I'm drunk and they are out of bacon, God knows the things I say. Thank God they don't know who I am. But you know what this is? This is what happens. Bureaucracy changes your brain chemistry. It creates a sense of powerlessness and you lash out at the person in front of you. This happens thousands of times a day at airports. The airline employees at the gate are faced with people like this all the time because people get angry even if what they're getting angry at is somebody is saying, "You can't get on a plane because you could die. There's a storm out there. You can't go out." But you blame them.

When you're faced with a human and no options, you become a horrible, horrible person, which is why my solution is robots. Robots solve everything. You can't scream at a robot, especially if it's an adorable robot.


PERINO: I see your point.

GUTFELD: Do prison guards deserve the abuse that they get? They didn't arrest that guy. They didn't cause them to commit the crime. But because they're there, they get the abuse. It's always the person closest to you...

GUILFOYLE: You want robot...

GUTFELD: ... who gets the abuse.

GUILFOYLE: Robot prison guards, too. All right.

OK, so Eric, has this ever happened to you? You're a big car driver?

BOLLING: You know what happens, though? I think what happened -- so she got really mad, and she averted to that natural instinct behavior.


BOLLING: Primal. Right.

GUTFELD: It's called being a jerk.

BOLLING: Think about road rage for a second. When people cut you off and you go at it, but I think she went too far -- yes. Do it, do your thing, yell at people, call them whatever you want, but when you start -- like missing teeth and just trashing people the way they look...

GUILFOYLE: Physical appearance. Yes. There it is.

BOLLING: It's just -- it's kind of gross. I mean, I've got to be honest with you. I don't think I would do that. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't. I hope I wouldn't.

PERINO: I'm surprised at ESPN's decision, actually. Because she wasn't on the clock. She wasn't working for them. And I realize that you do represent whoever you're working for, and I hope that I would never be caught in that situation.

GUTFELD: I wait for that day. It probably already happened.

PERINO: But I am kind of surprised that they suspended her. It really had nothing to do with ESPN.

GUTFELD: I could see you in a dog pound.

GUILFOYLE: It depends on her contract, and they could probably loophole it under some kind of a morality or behavior clause or something like that. It's conduct unbecoming that reflects poorly on ESPN. There's probably some loophole like that, yes?

WILLIAMS: So I want to know, when can I get angry?

GUTFELD: That's a great question now, with so many cameras.

WILLIAMS: I don't know that I can get angry. I can't even, like, do anything that someone might misconstrue...

PERINO: Get angry.

WILLIAMS: ... in the wrong way because I'm here at FOX.


WILLIAMS: So you know, I know...

GUILFOYLE: Because you're a nice guy.

WILLIAMS: ... it's not always the right thing to say, but I think that, you know, I'm very sympathetic to her, because I'm going to tell you something else. I happen to live in this jurisdiction, you know. I live in D.C. right next to Virginia.

PERINO: Right.

WILLIAMS: And these towing companies can be abusive.

GUILFOYLE: Well, apparently, this one is pretty bad.

WILLIAMS: And also, let me just say that Gregory, Mr. Sympathy here for airline employees, and I fly a lot, as you can imagine. I like airline employees but, guess what? You know, they will tell you in an instant crazy things, like you have to stay on this airplane on the tarmac for eight hours.

GUTFELD: I know.

WILLIAMS: Because we don't want to go back to -- Why can't we go back to the gate? Either the gate is occupied or, if you get off, it's going to take too long to reload all the -- So I get to sit here for eight hours?

GUILFOYLE: They don't want to do that.

BOLLING: You realize the reason why they won't go back to the gate. Because they pulled away from the gate on time...


BOLLING: ... and they don't want to screw up their "on time"...


WILLIAMS: But is that right to do to me as a human being?

PERINO: You can get angry here, Juan.

WILLIAMS: I'm sorry. I've got to say.


GUILFOYLE: Last week, actress Gwyneth Paltrow announced she was going to try to live on a Food Stamp budget. Bad idea. She posted this picture on Twitter, $29 worth of groceries, the same allowance millions of low- income families receive from the government each week.

But Paltrow has failed at being poor, because she gave up after four days. Can you believe this? Dana, what do you think? OK, go ahead. Dana's other half.

GUTFELD: I was just going to say, she failed because she was actually eating the Food Stamps.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, because she heard they were macrobiotic.

WILLIAMS: Did you hear that she broke it to eat licorice?

GUTFELD: Licorice is quite alluring.

GUILFOYLE: Only the red licorice.

PERINO: I like black licorice.

BOLLING: And chicken and other things.

GUILFOYLE: OK. What? Go ahead.

BOLLING: I'll throw this in very quickly. This stupid Food Stamp challenge is really, really -- it's severely flawed, first of all. Food Stamps, SNAP, Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, it's meant to supplement your nutrition, not be the only thing you eat for a week. So all these celebrities doing it, it's kind of a joke.

GUILFOYLE: I know. But let me tell you something. I might die if that's -- I can't eat that. The kale situation doesn't fill you at all. It's like a little cabbage patch rabbit.

OK. Anybody else? No.

Next, a proposal...


GUILFOYLE: She's good. Next, a proposal from Greg, to help combat -- and his head -- growing intolerance is moving on American...

GUTFELD: I'm going bald.

GUILFOYLE: ... campuses. Stay tuned.


GUTFELD: I finally watched the Comedy Central Justin Bieber roast. It was roasty. Roll it, Barbara.


NATASHA LEGGERO, COMEDIAN: It seems like only yesterday you were discovered on YouTube. Time flies when you're a piece of (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

MARTHA STEWART, FOUNDER, MARTHA STEWART LIVING: I do a lot of gardening, but you are, without a doubt, the dirtiest, used-up (EXPLETIVE DELETED) I have ever seen.

KEVIN HART, COMEDIAN: I don't how many (EXPLETIVE DELETED) we're allowed to see in this show, but I think -- I definitely think Snoop used them all. Like, we're done.

JUSTIN BIEBER, SINGER: When I tell people what I got for my 21st birthday, I get to tell them I got my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) kicked in.


GUTFELD: It was racist, sexist, sizist and, most of all, hurtist. In short, if any of this stuff had been said on campus, the speaker would be shamed into oblivion. The roast is the last place, apparently, where you can offend. It's the opposite of this:


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE PROTESTER: Why do you cease the activities (ph)? What do you have to say, huh?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE PROTESTER: You getting all of this?



GUTFELD: See, as campus-driven militant sensitivity spreads, the roast has become the release valve. The spread of safe spaces, where a joke is a threat equal to violence, drives real speech out.

It's just like prohibition. If you simply replace booze with words, you now have a modern temperance movement where speech is made in secret bathtubs. Illegal bars back then were called speakeasies. We need that for language. Call them "speech-easies." Places where we can say anything to anyone present to get angry. If you came, you'd be required to be mean, heartless, insulting and crass. But it's not about saying stuff to hurt people but being able to absorb things that said to you in return, to thicken your skin and develop muscles to sling it right back. Because no student on campus is going to be able to survive the real world until they learn that words are just words.

As infantile, emotionless, language-banning lunatics and cowardly academics limit speech, the only alternative left is for brave students to reverse the course. If it doesn't happen soon, forget roasting Bieber ever again. Truly then, the terrorists have won.

So Dana, I introduced this idea in a speech in Milwaukee last week to the YF, and already there are 50,000 speech-easies.

PERINO: The power of Gutfeld.

GUTFELD: It's amazing. That's a lie. I don't know. There's maybe two of them. Where am I?

PERINO: But I like your point.

GUTFELD: Thanks.

PERINO: And one of the things that we've seen and we talk about a lot about on this program, is the concern about words.


PERINO: Words are not violence.


PERINO: But that -- they have been equated and especially we see it over again on campus. I don't know what happens when these people from campus end up in the workplace, because you do really have to toughen up.

GUTFELD: Yes, I know. It's crazy.

PERINO: The things you say to me, just even when we're walking down the hallway.

BOLLING: And we have a speech-easy right here. It's the commercial breaks.

GUTFELD: Yes, exactly.

BOLLING: ... go on in the commercial breaks.

GUTFELD: Horrible things.

PERINO: You wouldn't believe the things Eric Bolling says.


PERINO: I'm kidding.

BOLLING: All of us, I think.

GUILFOYLE: Everybody.

PERINO: Not me.



GUTFELD: Juan, you have been known to frequent campuses, sometimes late at night. Don't students need a gym for their skin? They need to toughen their skin.

WILLIAMS: Yes. I think -- look, I'm going to tell you something. I'm sitting here, and I think to myself, if I can't handle words, I wouldn't have this job. Right?


WILLIAMS: I mean, the idea is that you have a capacity for critical thinking to respond to people effectively, and you've got to take what comes.


WILLIAMS: You can't be a chump.

PERINO: And also, let some things go.

BOLLING: Well, hold on, Mr. Williams. Aren't you one of the guys who say that the hip-hop community using the "N" word is...

WILLIAMS: Very offensive.

BOLLING: ... offensive? And isn't that -- aren't you being hypocritical on this, then?

WILLIAMS: No. Because look, that's not thought. That's not, you know, you coming to me and saying, "I disagree with you about the death tax."

BOLLING: Greg was talking about words being offensive.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, but that could be considered hate speech, I think, in my opinion.

WILLIAMS: Yes. The "N" word?


GUTFELD: Hate speech is a gimmick.

GUILFOYLE: You know, maybe. Maybe.

WILLIAMS: Wait a minute. If you -- wait, wait. Why is that a gimmick?

GUTFELD: Because it allows people who believe in -- who say they believe in free speech a way out. Like, "Oh, wait, no, no, no. That's hate speech." It's actually speech.

Like, I get it. You can't yell "fire" in a theater, you know, but this isn't that. I mean, I understand.

WILLIAMS: But if it's...

GUTFELD: The "N" word is offensive, but I don't know -- I guess that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about ideas...

GUILFOYLE: But I think it's racist...


GUILFOYLE: ... which I think is different.

GUTFELD: Well, it's not racist when...

GUILFOYLE: It depends on the use.

GUTFELD: The way it's used in music, it's not.

WILLIAMS: It's stupid. And it's stupid and demeaning.

But I think your point is, it's not about being intentionally personally insulting, Eric. It's about exchanging ideas and going at it. Now what they were doing to Petraeus, that wasn't...

BOLLING: Did you hear -- did you hear the roast?

WILLIAMS: That was personal.

BOLLING: Those roasts were personal.

WILLIAMS: That was rude. No, no, that was...

BOLLING: I think you're being inconsistent, Juan.

WILLIAMS: No, that's what you're seeing (ph).

BOLLING: On one hand you're saying, we should get a thick skin and be able to listen to that kind of stuff. Unless it's the "N" word. Or unless it's a hate speech.


GUILFOYLE: He's also saying it's contextual, people.

GUTFELD: Well, let me ask you, Kimberly. Without debate or discomfort, there's almost no growth. If you're on campus and you have your one ideology, and there isn't another one to debate you and strengthen your -- challenge your beliefs, you become weak.

GUILFOYLE: Well, I don't know. Maybe. Not if you're a winner in life, Greg. I mean, I don't think you can let somebody else's words -- whether they utter them...

GUTFELD: We're talking about debate.

GUILFOYLE: That's what I'm saying.


GUILFOYLE: I don't know -- I don't sit there -- I was on speech and debate, too. Like the super winner over there, Perino. And I didn't sit there and go -- you know what? I had -- I brought my argument and my comments and I didn't feel it was, like, valued or devalued depending on what the person next to me was uttering.


GUILFOYLE: Right. I brought my game; they better bring theirs. And I didn't feel like my measure went up or down depending...

PERINO: That's the best -- the best part of college was being there, having discussions that you're in a place where you can express yourself and they can express themselves. My favorite class was taught by Pauletta Otis (ph), who was my political science teacher in college.

GUTFELD: Well...

PERINO: We would have big debates, and I loved that.

GUTFELD: You sent me an article, before we go, by a professor who said that on campus professors spend less time engaging with liberal kids, because they figured they're already fixed and more times debating conservative kids. So the conservative kids actually get better education while the liberal kids are just happy believing in what they believed when they were in high school.

WILLIAMS: Yes, fixed, as if they can't grow. They can't...

GUTFELD: Yes. They're a chia pet without the hair.

WILLIAMS: Yes, buddy.

GUILFOYLE: Chia, chia.

WILLIAMS: I agree.

GUTFELD: Where did that come from?

OK. Up next, could this man save the world? David Hasselhoff is back and better than ever, which isn't saying much. No, I'm kidding. I love him. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: If any of you out there are hoping to relive the '80s, or you want to know what it felt like to live in that decade, well, the wait's over. Eighties icon David Hasselhoff is back with a new music video and, baby, it's something.

GUTFELD: It is. Did you watch it?





WILLIAMS: Wow! You know, the robot stuff -- you like the robot stuff.

GUILFOYLE: No, I'm saying that's why Gutfeld is, like, just goo-goo- ga-ga over this, because he loves robots and artificial intelligence. And he thinks this was, like, a brilliantly produced video, and he's got everything in there. So there's your talking points.

BOLLING: But it's ruining his street cred. All that great, you know, throwback music. You bumped into this segment. You liked that song?

GUTFELD: This is fantastic. He hit every single trope and nuance of the '80s. It was able to put it together. It's a work of art.

But it tells you how old you are. When I was in the 19 -- I grew up in the '70s and '80s as a teenager. Everything was about the '50s. You had "Happy Days," "American Graffiti." You had "Grease," "Laverne and Shirley." So basically, the '80s are today's '50s.


GUTFELD: My young adulthood is now officially nostalgia. I should be in a home.

WILLIAMS: Actually, though, "Star Wars" is hot.

PERINO: Are you -- why don't you create one of these videos?

GUTFELD: Nah. He's an amazing -- he's a great singer.

BOLLING: He's huge in Europe. I think he's the No. 1 act in Germany.


GUILFOYLE: Because he's the Hoff.

GUTFELD: Well, the No. 1 act in Germany can't be said.

GUILFOYLE: Interesting that you would know. You would know.

WILLIAMS: But you know what?

GUILFOYLE: Little odd one that you are.

WILLIAMS: I am surprised, as everyone on the panel says, that you really love that.

GUTFELD: How could you not?

GUILFOYLE: You know what that means?

GUTFELD: That was art.

GUILFOYLE: You know what that means?


GUILFOYLE: He really loves Bolling. Because he is the Hoff. He is the Hoff.

BOLLING: Right. God forbid I said I liked Hasselhoff in that video, you guys would have destroyed...

GUILFOYLE: No, you liked him because he didn't have his shirt on.

WILLIAMS: Oh, is that what it is?

GUILFOYLE: He's no blanco gordito.

BOLLING: Thanks, Amanda. This is Amanda. She loves this.

WILLIAMS: Oh, my gosh.

GUILFOYLE: I mean, you do look like him.

BOLLING: Did you guys have this planned the whole time?

WILLIAMS: Wait, wait, wait.

GUILFOYLE: Do the smile.

WILLIAMS: You know, like "Baywatch," right? "Baywatch," that was quite a show and for some of the reasons that I think you like...

BOLLING: Hasselhoff?


PERINO: All I've got to say is, Juan, you really get the great segments.

WILLIAMS: Well, thank you. Thank you. But you know, "Knight Rider," what was the theory of that?

GUTFELD: "Knight Rider"?


WILLIAMS: And that was the car in the video here.

GUTFELD: Yes, exactly.

PERINO: You bring it full circle. Well done.

WILLIAMS: "PERINOOne More Thing" coming right up.

GUILFOYLE: You just figured that out?


BOLLING: Time for "One More Thing".


BOLLING: K.G.'s up.

GUILFOYLE: Juan did not know that the whole thing was that was the Hoff singing in a video. He's like, "Is that what it was? Singing?"

Who cares about all that, because this is my new happiness, right here. A little delicious cup. Ben and Jerry's is going to be selling ice cream burritos called Brrr-itos. So they're soft and chew, waffle crepe- like wraps.

GUTFELD: Why do we care?

GUILFOYLE: Who cares? I want to do a food segment. Why are you bumming me out?

GUTFELD: Because they're commies.

GUILFOYLE: I don't care. Commies.

GUTFELD: Commies, punks.

PERINO: They look good.

BOLLING: Are they good? They good?

GUILFOYLE: Chocolate fudge brownie and chocolate chip cookie dough.

BOLLING: All right, Dana.

GUTFELD: And it makes people sick.

I will eat this.

BOLLING: Can you do you -- try to do "One More Thing" while you eat.

PERINO: OK. So Sunday, don't forget, I get to do something that is quite incredible. It's a real honor. I'm the honorary starter at the Food City 500 NASCAR race in Bristol Motorway.

GUILFOYLE: Very cool.

PERINO: I am a little nervous. There's Jasper. I call it Jas-car instead of NASCAR.

GUTFELD: Are you going to be a hood ornament?

PERINO; He's not really going, but there he is advertising that my -- am I going to be the hood ornament?


PERINO: Nice. Very good joke.

Actually, I'm going to go there. I'm very excited. And it's in support of Steve Burns and Stand Up to Cancer. So that's also a good cause.

My book comes out next week. There's a book tour scheduled that you can find on our website. And don't miss "The Five" on Friday, because the producers have put together a really great package that tells you a little bit about my book.

BOLLING: Monday.

PERINO: On Monday. What did I say?

BOLLING: Friday.

PERINO: Today is Friday. Monday. Don't miss us on Monday.

BOLLING: Beautiful. Great stuff, Dana. Looking forward to it. All right.

GUILFOYLE: Hey, this is delicious.


BOLLING: I took some of that, took a bite of that -- Greg.

GUTFELD: I'm going to be on "O'Reilly" tonight with McGuirk. It's sick.



GUTFELD: Greg's Sports Corner.


GUTFELD: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) voice. Anyway, as you know, there's this new "Entourage" film coming out. And Jeremy Piven had to get in shape, so he took part in a celebrity basketball league. And I believe we have -- it was water basketball. There he is.




GUTFELD: Jeremy Piven, getting in shape with some prime basketball moves. There he is again.


GUTFELD: Amazing. Jeremy Piven is still in shape, and the hairpiece has moved downward.

GUILFOYLE: You're so mean.

GUTFELD: But congratulations, Mr. Piven.

GUILFOYLE: That was actually really...

BOLLING: That was really, really good.

All right. It's Friday so time for...



GRAPHIC: Fool of the Week.


BOLLING: So many options for "Fool of the Week". Pull up the full screen very quickly. It could easily have been Harry Reid, Britt McHenry or Gwyneth Paltrow, for reasons we discussed earlier, but for this. You'll know why. Watch.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can see the media running behind me here to chase the Scooby van.


GUILFOYLE: Thank you.

BOLLING: The lapdog media for not asking any questions and for...

PERINO: They didn't get a chance to ask questions.

BOLLING: But you know...

PERINO: You should be nicer to the media. It's not the reporter's fault.

BOLLING: You're going to be nice because you're going to be on "The Today Show" on Monday.

GUILFOYLE: Oh! The whole show blows up at 5:58.

PERINO: I'm not talking about that. But I'm telling you something. The reporters are not at fault. That is Hillary Clinton's problem or it's their boss' problem. They should make Hillary come to them.

BOLLING: Jon Stewart is going to love you. What is it, Wednesday?

PERINO: Yes. Thank you for that extra promotion.

BOLLING: Juan, you're up.

WILLIAMS: All right. So you know that I'm a cranky old man. So on a flight from Chicago to Manchester, New Hampshire, on Thursday, Lenny Mordarski, who is 68 years old, was snoring. And what did the lady next to him start to do? She took a pen and she started stabbing him, the poor guy in his arm repeatedly.

GUILFOYLE: That was kind of brutal.

PERINO: Terrible.

WILLIAMS: That was awful. The woman stabs him. He's not going to press charges. Lenny is a good guy, but I just thought, this is so extreme and crazy.

GUILFOYLE: She shouldn't have opened the cap, because she left evidence with all the ink all over his arm.

WILLIAMS: Wait a minute. If I'm snoring, you're going to stab me?

GUILFOYLE: Well, I might go like this to you.

WILLIAMS: Well, that...

BOLLING: Hands up.

WILLIAMS: Hands up, really, because I wouldn't want to you do anything like stab me.

PERINO: K.G., this is good.

BOLLING: We've got to go.

GUTFELD: Disgusting.

BOLLING: That's it for us.

PERINO: You ate it, too.

BOLLING: Have a great weekend. See you on Monday.

GUILFOYLE: You ate it, too.

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