Cruz confronted over fairness of delegate selection process
Reaction on 'Hannity' to heated radio interview with the GOP candidate
This is a rush transcript from "Hannity," April 19, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
SEAN HANNITY, HOST: And welcome to "Hannity." And tonight, the 2016 race for the White House enters a new phase after front-runners Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton scored huge victories in their home state of New York.
And standing by tonight at the "Hannity" big board with more information, "Fox & Friends" Heather Nauert -- Heather.
HEATHER NAUERT, "FOX & FRIENDS" CO-HOST: Hi, there, Sean. A very good night for Donald Trump in the Empire State, 95 important delegates at stake. Trump added nearly all of them to his war chest. as he presses ahead to try to reach that magic number of 1,237 delegates needed to secure that nomination, Trump happy with the results from last night, of course, but he says there is still work to be done and was back on the campaign trail earlier tonight.
Take a look here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Look, hey, folks, to a large extent -- we have to build the military, we have to do so many different things. We'll go over them. We're going to build our military so strong, so powerful, nobody is going to mess with us, right? Nobody!
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: Now, it's a very important thing. We have to go out, we have to win, we have to win to make our country great again. We're going to make our country great again, going to make our country great again.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
AUDIENCE: Build the wall! Build the wall!
TRUMP: Yes, OK, OK! We'll build the wall, but who's going to pay for the wall?
AUDIENCE: Mexico!
TRUMP: Who?
AUDIENCE: Mexico!
TRUMP: Absolutely right. You got it right, folks! You got it right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NAUERT: So as for Trump's top rival, Senator Ted Cruz -- he had a tough time in New York, making his road to the nomination a whole lot harder. But he is not backing down in his battle with Donald Trump.
Earlier today, Senator Cruz predicted that there will be a contested convention in Cleveland. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ, R-TEXAS, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What is clear today is we're headed to a contested convention. Nobody is able to reach 1,237. I'm not going to reach 1,237, and Donald Trump is not going to reach 1,237.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NAUERT: Well, there you go.
Then on the Democrat side, Hillary Clinton easily winning her home state, and her campaign is now saying that Senator Bernie Sanders mathematically has no chance to defeat her for the nomination.
Sean, Tuesday, the candidates, both parties, facing off in Connecticut, Delaware, Maryland, Pennsylvania and Rhode Island, a combined 118 delegates on the line for the Republicans, 384 delegates in play for the Democrats. So we will be keeping a close eye on those races, as you know -- Sean.
HANNITY: All right. Coming down to the wire. Thanks, Heather.
NAUERT: Yes, certainly. Thanks.
HANNITY: All right. Appreciate it. Now, joining us now, the author of "The Greatest Comeback," Patrick J. Buchanan is with us. Sir, how are you?
PAT BUCHANAN, "THE GREATEST COMEBACK" AUTHOR: Doing fine, Sean.
HANNITY: All right, you have a column, the headline -- not sure if you wrote the headline -- "Is the GOP risking suicide?" You say Donald Trump has brought out the largest crowds in the history of primaries. He's won the most victories, the most delegates, the most votes. He's poised to sweep three of the five largest states in the country, New York, Pennsylvania, California.
If he does and the nomination is taken away from him, the Republican Party will be seen by the American people as?
BUCHANAN: Chinese tong (ph).
HANNITY: Explain.
BUCHANAN: What I'm saying is, look, if -- as I mentioned, Donald Trump has got millions and millions more votes than any other Republican candidate. He's won all these primaries. His victories have been massive. His crowds have been enormous. We see him almost every week, you know, winning a race, and sometimes he maybe loses one or two.
Sean, things perceived as real are real in their consequences. The American people are looking at this and they say, You know, what we like Donald Trump or not, the guy went out and he has won this thing.
Now, if by poaching and pilfering delegates here and there, Cruz and Kasich can hold Trump off from the nomination on the first ballot, and then they take it, it'll be like the -- you know, the heavyweight champ standing there with his gloves over his head, and the award going to the guy lying on the canvas!
HANNITY: Yes. What do you say to the argument, well, everyone knew the rules going in ahead of time, and Donald Trump should have competed better in Colorado, et cetera? What's your answer?
BUCHANAN: My answer is there's no doubt about it, Ted Cruz knows the rules better than Donald Trump. Ted Cruz has a better ground game than Donald Trump. And Ted Cruz is not doing anything criminal in pilfering delegates and telling them to hold out and all the rest of it.
But what I'm saying is the American people have perceived a tremendously exciting, interested contest, and the reality is that Donald Trump won it. And everybody knows it. Look at that TV last night, Sean. Are people going to turn around and say now they're going to give it to the guy who was runner-up by 300 delegates? Why?
HANNITY: All right, James Baker had an interesting line. He said, try and acquire as many delegates as possible, protect them and steal as many as you possibly can. And I guess that's the way the system is designed to work.
Let me go back because we're now at the point mathematically that there's only one candidate that can get to 1,237...
BUCHANAN: Right.
HANNITY: ... without a contested convention. That is Donald Trump. Here's Ted Cruz when John Kasich became -- when he got to the point mathematically he couldn't get to 1,237. Here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CRUZ: John Kasich is a good man. He's an honorable man. But he has no path to the nomination. It's mathematically impossible for John Kasich to become the Republican nominee. He needs more than 100 percent of the remaining delegates.
And it's worth remembering Kasich went 0 for 27, lost 27 states in a row, then he won his home state. You can't lose every state and expect to be the nominee. Right now, Kasich's role is really being a spoiler.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: Does that come back to hurt Ted Cruz, now that mathematically he can't get to 1,237 until he goes to a contested convention?
BUCHANAN: Sure, it does. Sure, it does. He can't win the nomination and get the delegates now on the first ballot, and Donald Trump still can. So his campaign is all about holding off and playing dog in the manger and taking delegates away to deny Trump the victory he has won over Cruz, over Kasich, over 15 other Republicans, deny it to him and hope working in the back rooms, they can get delegates who don't like Trump to break from him, faithless delegates, and win the nomination that way.
Sean, we've been at a political era since Jack Kennedy swept the Democratic primaries, Nixon swept the Republican primaries in '68, McGovern had a great campaign and took the Democratic -- the idea that we're going to back room politics like the 19th century and confer the nomination on somebody who is a clear loser -- it's not going to go with the American people. It looks like it's a contradiction of democracy.
HANNITY: What about...
BUCHANAN: And it is!
HANNITY: What about comments -- John Boehner, for example -- Oh, anybody can be nominated on the convention floor, or the comments yesterday of Mitch McConnell or the comments of Mitt Romney or the comments of Karl Rove about a fresh face? Clearly, there seems to be a strategy emerging behind closed doors about the white knight candidate that's going to come in, somebody who didn't even run in this primary, which would render everybody's vote, everybody's caucus time irrelevant...
BUCHANAN: You know, Sean...
HANNITY: ... and they would be disenfranchised.
BUCHANAN: Rove talks about a fresh face. We have watched this process for a full year almost. We've watched it every week. It has been terrific. We've seen millions and millions of people come out.
And the Republican Party, Rove and all the guys on Capitol Hill, the hated establishment, are going to get up and tell us, Hey, folks, that all was just advisory. We're going to decide on the nominee when we get to the convention in the back rooms and who we think will best represent this small party of ours.
I think, again, Sean, I mean, the Republican Party in the Reagan era was America's party. That would be the end of America's party, all the hope to become that again.
HANNITY: There's a contentious battle especially on social media, if you're a Cruz supporter, you're a Trump supporter. You can read it. It's intense.
Here's the question. I believe if the party doesn't unite behind the winner, and that means all of the 17 that originally began here and the rest of the party and the establishment -- and I think some establishment might want to see Hillary win so they can say to the voters, Oh, see? We told you so. You should have gone with our establishment candidate.
But the question is, do you see them uniting in the end knowing that if they don't, Hillary Clinton is the next president?
BUCHANAN: I think -- I think any Republican who -- major figure in the Republican Party who walks away if Trump is the nominee and says, I'm not endorsing him and I really don't care if he loses, is going to be just like those folks in '64, Rockefeller and Romney and Scranton and all the rest -- and after that, they were ancient history, Sean.
Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan went all out for Goldwater when he was 50 points behind. Nixon traveled to more states I think than Goldwater did. They fought for the party. And when the party went down to defeat, they were right there standing with their guy. The future belonged to them because of that, and it didn't belong to the guys who walked away and went over the hill.
HANNITY: All right, Pat Buchanan, always great to have you. Thank you.
BUCHANAN: Good talking to you, Sean.
HANNITY: And coming up -- Senator Ted Cruz was a guest on my radio show yesterday. It got a little heated. He got defensive when I asked him about the delegate process. We're going to play that interview.
And then later tonight...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL MANAFORT, TRUMP CONVENTION MANAGER: We have several ways to get to 1,237, you know, by early June.
CRUZ: Nobody is able to reach 1,237.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: Donald Trump's convention manager says that his candidate will win the nomination on the first ballot in Cleveland, but Cruz says otherwise. Our delegate experts break down the numbers.
Plus tonight...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID WEBB, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: What's the one word you would use to describe Hillary Clinton?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Treacherous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: In a "Hannity" exclusive -- you're going to love this -- we sent David Webb to ask Bernie Sanders supporters to describe Hillary Clinton in one word. Their answers are devastating for the Democratic front-runner.
That and more tonight on "Hannity."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
HANNITY: And welcome back to "Hannity." Now, yesterday, I had 2016 presidential candidate Senator Ted Cruz on my radio program, and I asked him about the delegate process. Now, since Cruz says we're headed to a contested convention in Cleveland, I think it's an important question. Well, things got a little heated when I asked him about it. Here's part of that interview.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
HANNITY: I am telling you that people are telling me that they find this whole process confusing. You know, I can read the articles, for example, about, you know -- if people want to know what actually happened in Georgia this weekend, where people that, I guess, on the first ballot, are going to Donald Trump, but representatives of yours talk to them and are persuading them to vote for you on a second ballot.
That is an important question because I think most people would like to know how this works, and I really an asking you more than a process question. It's an integrity of the election question. And everybody's asking me this question. So I'm giving you an opportunity to explain it.
CRUZ: Sean, the only people asking this question are the hard-core Donald Trump supporters.
HANNITY: Why do you...
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: Why do you do this? Every single time -- no, you got to stop. Every time I have you on the air and I ask a legitimate question, you try to throw this in my face. I'm getting sick of it. I've had you on more than any other candidate on radio and TV.
So if I ask you, Senator, a legitimate question to explain to the audience, why don't you just answer it?
CRUZ: Sean, can I answer question without being interrupted?
HANNITY: Go ahead.
CRUZ: In the last three weeks, there have been five elections in five states, Utah, North Dakota, Wisconsin, Colorado, Wyoming. We've won all five. Over 1.3 million people voted in those five states. We won all five.
All of this noise and complaining and whining has come from the Trump campaign because they don't like the fact that they've lost five elections in a row, that Republicans are uniting behind our campaign. So they're screaming on Drudge, and it's getting echoed, this notion of voterless election. It is nonsense. They are making it up.
HANNITY: What if the delegate selection doesn't represent the will of the people in that particular district or area?
CRUZ: Sean, that's why there's an election. And listen...
HANNITY: No, no, I mean, but if there's a conflict. That's why -- Senator, I don't know why you're mad. There's no -- I'm asking. I'm just trying to understand it. I'm really having a hard time understanding why you're getting angry at this.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
HANNITY: All right, joining us with reaction, radio talk show host Rose Tennent and author David Limbaugh, who also happens to be my attorney but also is a Cruz supporter.
David, this has now happened in the last three interviews that I've had with Senator Cruz. I feel like I've been more than fair to him. If you have a legitimate criticism as a friend, I'm willing to listen to it. I think it's a very important question. I don't think people understand it. I listen to, you know, people that write me and people that text me and people on Twitter.
What do you think?
DAVID LIMBAUGH, "THE EMMAUS CODE" AUTHOR: Well, Sean, you're one of my best friends, and I am completely supportive of Ted Cruz. I don't think he was really mad, and I think it's more of a misunderstanding. If he was aggravated, it's not at you, it's at Donald Trump for recklessly misrepresenting that stealing and cheating is going on.
This system has been in place for 150 years or more. In the states, we've had a hybrid of pure democracy. We have caucuses. We have primaries. And there has been no stealing going on. No one's complained about this before, and I think Lisa Boothe was correct when she said this was messaging.
This is an Alinskyite tactic Trump is using to get Cruz off message. And his frustration, if he had any, was not at you but that since Iowa, Cruz -- Trump has been accusing him of being "lyin' Ted" and he won't talk about the real issues. Cruz wants to get him in a debate where he can whip him fairly and squarely.
He's going to these precincts and caucuses and courting these people and convincing him. But Trump accusing Cruz of cheating is also accusing the grass roots people, saying that party bosses have stolen this thing. These are grass roots people who have walked these precincts and worked hard all their life for conservative principles, and for Trump to say there's cheating going on, he's impugning them and he's undermining the election process!
HANNITY: Rose, let's get your take on it.
ROSE TENNENT, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Hi, Sean. I thought you did a great job during that interview. I found him to be somewhat condescending not only toward you, but to the voters who really don't understand what's going on.
And for many of us, Pennsylvania especially, we've never really had to experience this, not for a very long time. So this is a very complicated process, and we don't understand that once we've gone through a primary or a caucus, that things can actually change. When we spoke our mind, we voted, and then we find out only later that those things can be changed.
And I think that's what frustrates a lot of people, and my listeners are especially concerned. And I've had listeners call me and tell me that they were Cruz supporters, but right now, they're confused by all of this and it reads as something that's not quite right. Even though we know it's legal, everything that's been done by Ted Cruz and his campaign is legal, they're not feeling right about it. They don't feel good about it.
And I think that's important. And I love David, and -- but I'll tell you what. There are grass roots volunteers on the other side, Trump's side, working for him tirelessly, putting in so much time, enthusiasm and passion into this campaign, and they're feeling as though the primaries don't matter.
HANNITY: David, I'm sympathetic to the idea that everybody knew the rules going in. Going forward -- meaning not in this election cycle -- I would like to see -- it's a national party. The party represents the people.
I think the states should have choices. They should either be a caucus state or primary state. They can be proportional distribution of delegates or winner take all. And I think every delegate needs to be unbound (sic).
Rose is talking about Pennsylvania. The winner of Pennsylvania gets 17 delegates, 54 are unbound. And you actually have names of delegates not representing the candidates. In other words, they don't have the name of the delegate and the candidate they're supporting.
So I think there can be improvements to the system going forward because it is confusing. I don't see any problems courting delegates for a second ballot if you think it's going to go to a contested convention. That's fine. But I think having it explained by the candidates what their strategy is is a legitimate question.
LIMBAUGH: Well, I don't disagree with that. I wish he would have answered it directly and blown it out of the water. But -- because these rules have been in placed and Trump knows it, and this is disingenuous for him to do it.
You're correct. If we want to change these rule, we have to go -- obey the process in doing that, too, obey the rules, do it in a timely way, do it in a way that's way before the election -- the primary process begins, not after the fact, after you've lost these elections because you've been outgunned, outprepared, outmaneuvered and outworked by Ted Cruz.
And so I just don't think it's right for Trump to raise these issues. It's a fine, legitimate question for you to ask, but states and the party have a right to do what they want to do, and they -- we don't want it forced down their throat, but there ought to be -- this -- what about the fact that 60 percent of the people voted for Trump last night and he'll get 90 percent of the delegates?
It's not a pure democracy any way you do it. And so -- and Trump has far more delegates, a far higher percentage of delegates than his percentage of popular vote.
HANNITY: Right.
LIMBAUGH: Part of the reason we have this convention thing is that people want to marshal a majority, a majority coalition which can go against the Democrats and defeat them. If Trump is unable to convince a majority of unbound delegates, should it go to a second or third ballot, then there's no way he could have beat Hillary Clinton.
HANNITY: All right, I've got to break. Rose, last word quick.
TENNENT: Well, I just think that people are looking right now as a vote for Cruz as a vote for a contested convention, and most people really don't want that, and I don't think it's a good idea. And I think that for Pennsylvanians, they better know who they're going in to vote for not just for president but delegates, as well. They got to get a commitment from those delegates.
HANNITY: Actually, in the next two days, I'm putting up on my Web site who the delegates are supporting. So this way, people in Pennsylvania will know. I think this is fair for them.
Guys, I love you both. Thank you both for being with us. Appreciate it.
TENNENT: Thank you. We love you, too.
HANNITY: All right, coming up -- are we headed to a contested convention, or can Donald Trump get the number of delegates needed to clinch the nomination? We have delegate experts weighing in.
Also, if you're courting a delegate, what are you allowed to offer them?
Then later tonight...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ay-yi-yi. I don't want to use the word crook, but untruthful.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: A "Hannity" exclusive you don't want to miss. We asked Bernie Sanders supporters to sum up Hillary Clinton in one word. Wait until you hear the rest of what they said. Now, the Clinton campaign should be very concerned. I'll give you that tip as "Hannity" continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HANNITY: And welcome back to "Hannity." The RNC spring meeting started today down in Hollywood, Florida, and one of the most crucial topics up for discussion is the possibility of a contested convention come July. But last night, right here on this program, Trump's convention manager, Paul Manafort -- he predicted the issue will not be an issue. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL MANAFORT, TRUMP CONVENTION MANAGER: There's not going be a second ballot, so there's not an issue.
HANNITY: And you're convinced?
MANAFORT: We have several ways to get to 1,237 by early June.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: And earlier today, The Washington Post reported that an internal memo is projecting that Donald Trump will have more than 1,400 delegates and will easily win the nomination on the first ballot at the GOP convention.
Now, Senator Ted Cruz, on the other hand -- he's telling an entirely different story. Take a look at him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CRUZ: What is clear today is that we are heading to a contested convention. Nobody is able to reach 1,237. I'm not going to reach 1,237, and Donald Trump's not going to reach 1,237. We're going to arrive in Cleveland with me having a ton of delegates and with Donald having a ton of delegates. And at that point, it is going to be a battle to see who can earn the support of a majority of delegates elected by the people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: Joining us now with reaction, the founder and president of High Noon Strategies, Lisa Boothe, and leader of Clark Hills National Political Law Practice, Charles Spies, is with us.
Lisa, let me start with you because mathematically, there's only one guy left that now has a chance to get to 1,237. If you look at the percentages, seems within the realm of possibility by a little less than 60 percent for Donald Trump to get the nomination to get to 1,237 before we get to the convention. Thoughts.
LISA BOOTHE, HIGH NOON STRATEGIES: Well, you're right, Sean. And we're seeing a lot of campaign spin from both campaigns. I don't think Donald Trump can get to 1,400, but he can get to 1,237. You're right, he's the only candidate right now that's poised to reach that number.
And look, we both know that this is about delegates, but it's also about optics. It's also about momentum. Donald Trump came off the bad couple weeks there where Senator Ted Cruz won Wisconsin, Colorado and Wyoming.
However, he had a huge win in New York last night. He got 60 percent of the vote. He shored (ph) up almost all of the 95 delegates that were on the table. He also heads into next week on the 26th, where there's Rhode Island, Delaware, Maryland, Pennsylvania, all states that he's poised to do very well
in. So Donald Trump needs to carry that momentum into May, and we'll see what happens. But there is definitely the opportunity for him to become the presentive -- present...
HANNITY: Presumptive.
SPIES: ... presumptive nominee, right...
HANNITY: Right. Yes.
BOOTHE: ... with the pledged delegates and/or pick up enough unbound delegates to win on that first ballot.
HANNITY: Charles, let's talk about Pennsylvania. The winner of the state of Pennsylvania -- Trump is up by about 20 points in the state, according to the RealClearPolitics average, but only 17 of those delegates are bound. Another 54 delegates are unbound. On the ballot itself, they have delegate names, but they don't have who the delegates are going to represent if elected. So it gets very confusing. How does that work out?
CHARLES SPIES, CLARK HILLS NATIONAL POLITICAL LAW PRACTICE: Well, this whole process is a combination of doing well at the polls, like Donald Trump did last night in New York, and doing well at the actual delegate selection process, and that's where Ted Cruz has really mastered the process and done better in Wyoming. And even if you look at the more recent states like Michigan, he did very well. And that's why the Cruz folks are really looking at a second ballot as the opportunity for some of those delegates to become unbound and switch over to him.
HANNITY: Yes. What do -- in the course of courting -- for example, let's say candidate A has on the first ballot, they have committed delegates, but if candidate B and C are courting those delegates for the second round of balloting, what are they allowed to offer those delegates, anything? Can they pay for their plane tickets? Can they pay for their hotel rooms? Can they take them out to expensive steak dinners? What are they allowed to do by law?
SPIES: That's a great question, and it matters if those delegates hold any sort of public office, in which case, if you're giving them a trip to Mar- a-Lago, you might be seeing the FBI outside your door.
HANNITY: Yes.
SPIES: But if they're just regular citizens that are serving as delegates, there's very few rules that govern what you can do. You certainly can court them.
HANNITY: When you say -- but court them and pay for their plane ticket, their hotel room and take them to a steak dinner -- that seems like a little more than courting. That seems like quid pro quo.
SPIES: It means that you've got to be very careful about the optics. But what governs here are party rules, and the party rules don't prohibit you from courting them or even giving them a plane ticket.
HANNITY: Can you buy them a car?
SPIES: I wouldn't recommend doing it because...
(LAUGHTER)
HANNITY: But you can...
SPIES: ... I think it would be...
HANNITY: ... spend money on them. I mean, you know, it seems -- you got to -- that would worry me and concern me.
Lisa, let me ask this question. There was a RealClearPolitics column yesterday, and the headline was that Cruz could come in dead last in Pennsylvania and still take home more than half the delegates.
LISA BOOTHE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, it's interesting. And look, what we're seeing this election cycle, because in previous election cycles we've had a nominee who has become the presumptive nominee at this point. Now, granted, we started out with 17 candidates, so everything about this election cycle has been unorthodox and has been a little bit different than previous election cycles in recent memory.
So what we're seeing now is sort of a curtain being rolled back about the process which is really something, Sean, that people just haven't been interested in because they haven't had to be interested in it.
And what I think Donald Trump has done which has been interesting is I honestly don't think he cares as much about the process as he's letting on. I think what he's doing from a communications standpoint is some table setting because what he has now done is created this scenario where the RNC delegates have a bull's-eye on their back, and people are going to be paying attention to everything -- what they are doing, and they're going to be paying attention to the convention rules and to everything to a degree that they wouldn't have been otherwise. So it's interesting to see him do this.
HANNITY: It's interesting both in Wisconsin and New York in exit poll, in Wisconsin a state that Donald Trump lost, and New York a state that he won, 60 percent of Wisconsin voters, 70 percent of New York voters, said that they think the person with the most votes, delegates, and states won should get the nomination regardless of 1,237. Do you think that if the party sticks to its rules, which I assume they will and that it is a contested convention, if they do leapfrog over somebody that has more votes, delegates, and states won, what do you think the result of that is, real quick? I'll ask you both.
BOOTHE: Well, I think they're going to see a lot of voters that are upset if that happens. But Trump, to point out one thing. For over a century, you've had to get to 1,237 number, and so I think it's in Donald Trump's best interest if he wants to be the nominee is to try to focus on the state --
HANNITY: To get the number.
BOOTHE: To get that number and to also be looking at the unbound delegates that could potentially help him on the first ballot become the nominee.
HANNITY: Yes, and Charles, there's, what, about 150 or so of those?
CHARLES SPIES, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: At least depending on how the state laws are applied by the credentials committee at the actual convention in terms of how people are bound. But, Sean, if you were to ask that same polling question about is the team that's ahead at the end of the eighth inning, should they be favored to win the game? Most people would say yes, but they would also say play that ninth inning, follow the rules and finish out the game.
HANNITY: All right, guys, good to see you both, appreciate it.
BOOTHE: Thank you, Sean.
HANNITY: And coming up next tonight on this busy news night on "Hannity" --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WEBB: What's one word you'd use to describe Hillary Clinton?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's a liar.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: Bernie Sanders supporters, we asked them one word to describe Hillary Clinton. It's a video you'll only see here on "Hannity" tonight. It's shocking.
And also later tonight --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERIFF CHUCK JENKINS, FREDERICK COUNTY, MARYLAND: If this Congress and the next president do not take an action to secure this border with Mexico and enforce the immigration laws, every county in America will become a border county.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: Every county in America a border county, a Maryland sheriff sounding the alarm about border security. That and more tonight on "Hannity."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILLARY CLINTON, D-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's humbling that you'd trust me with the awesome responsibilities that await our next president. And --
(APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: And to all the people who supported Senator Sanders, I believe there is much more that unites us than divides us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: All right, so after winning the New York Democratic primary, Hillary Clinton is trying to unify Democrats around her campaign, but I don't think it's going to be that easy. Now, in a "Hannity" exclusive, we sent our friend, David Webb, to a Bernie Sanders rally to ask his supporters the one word they would use to describe Hillary Clinton. It was not pretty. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WEBB: What's the one word you would use to describe Hillary Clinton?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Treacherous.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hillary Clinton? She said it -- opportunist.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Untrustworthy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Scary.
WEBB: What's your one word to describe Hillary Clinton?
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Avoidable.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't want to use the word "crook," but, um, untruthful.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ordinary.
WEBB: What about you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Traditional.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Disconnected.
WEBB: What about you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Establishment.
WEBB: What's the one word you would use to describe Hillary Clinton?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dishonest.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's a liar.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Opulent. That's the one word.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joke. Lies.
WEBB: That's two. You got one more?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Disgrace.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stale.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A fraud.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: Here with reaction, Bernie Sanders' campaign surrogate and adjunct professor of law at the University of Detroit Amer Zahr is with us, and former Clinton pollster and Fox News contributor Doug Schoen. Amer, it was interesting your comments on Twitter today. You said that to assert, people, Bernie supporters are obligated to support Hillary you said is wildly misunderstanding this movement.
AMER ZAHR, SANDERS CAMPAIGN SURROGATE: Yes, I mean, the Bernie Sanders supporters and the Bernie Sanders movement is about bringing a new generation of people into the political process, new kinds of thinking. Hillary Clinton kind of represents the old way of thinking, the traditional way of thinking. That's why I think you see a lot of the reactions you saw in that man on the street video.
HANNITY: What would be the one word you'd use to describe her?
ZAHR: Credibility issues. Is that two words?
HANNITY: That's not a word. Try again.
(LAUGHTER)
ZAHR: No, I mean, I think that's the main problem a lot of us have with her.
HANNITY: Do you think she's a liar?
ZAHR: I wouldn't go as far to call her a liar.
HANNITY: Do you think she's dishonest?
ZAHR: There are some honesty issues.
HANNITY: You think she's untrustworthy?
ZAHR: Many of us do, yes.
HANNITY: And you're one of them?
ZAHR: I do think that she's untrustworthy.
HANNITY: You think she's crooked?
ZAHR: I wouldn't use that word.
HANNITY: OK. Doug, fully 25 percent of Bernie supporters are saying they're not going, they're not supporting her.
DOUG SCHOEN, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Right. And that's now, Sean. We're in April. Feelings are necessarily quite heightened --
HANNITY: Raw nerves.
SCHOEN: But they'll come together after the convention. Frankly, it's the Republicans who are a lot more divided than the Democrats.
HANNITY: You know what, we're paying more attention to the Republicans, but in reality, there's a lot of Bernie supporters, and I bet, Amer, you're probably one of them. I look at what's happening with the Republicans, but I don't think I've ever seen anything as corrupt as this whole super delegate system where Hillary Clinton has, what, 700-some-odd super delegates, Bernie has 30. Really? That sounds to me like the establishment has stacked the deck to give Hillary the nomination. You take away the super delegates and this is a pretty narrow race.
ZAHR: Yes, the super delegate system is a problem --
HANNITY: Is it a corrupt?
ZAHR: I wouldn't call it corrupt.
HANNITY: I would.
ZAHR: It definitely is an incumbency protection system, right, which really --
HANNITY: That's corrupt. Come on, wait a minute. If you're saying it's there to protect one candidate over another, that means it's corrupt and it's not fair.
ZAHR: I'm not going to use the word "corrupt." But what it does do is it sidelines a lot of the new people that are trying to come into the system - -
HANNITY: Is it cheating? Is it dishonest? Is if unfair?
ZAHR: I'm not going to use any of those words.
HANNITY: You really believe it, don't you? You know it's unfair. I know it's unfair. I'm laughing. If I'm a Bernie supporter, I'd be pissed.
ZAHR: I'd say it's unfair because what it does is takes away the democratic power from the people, and it really --
HANNITY: OK, so that's corrupt.
ZAHR: -- this whole new generation of people that's coming in.
HANNITY: That's corrupt.
ZAHR: It's not a great system.
HANNITY: It's not a great system.
SCHOEN: If I can get a word in. Look, Hillary is going to be the next president. Republicans divided --
HANNITY: Blah, blah, blah, sick of hearing that. You know what, maybe she will. She starts out with 47 percent of the vote.
SCHOEN: Correct.
HANNITY: God help us if she wins.
SCHOEN: Five of the six states with, like, 250 of the 270 delegates, you need the Electoral College --
HANNITY: Is that super delegate system corrupt yes or no?
SCHOEN: It is effective --
HANNITY: I didn't ask if it's effective. Is it corrupt?
SCHOEN: I don't think it's corrupt. I agree with Amer. It's designed to protect incumbents. You know what, it works. It works.
HANNITY: It's designed to protect the establishment. So basically it's a system that screws Bernie.
SCHOEN: Yes, of course it does. That's right.
HANNITY: There you go, from a Hillary supporter.
SCHOEN: And Hillary will be the president.
HANNITY: He's saying what you're afraid to say, Amer. Speak up.
SCHOEN: Amer is perfectly fair and reasonable --
(CROSSTALK)
SCHOEN: Amer is an honest guy.
ZAHR: Nice to hear from a Hillary supporter, but it's not fair --
SCHOEN: We'll be working together, Amer, I look forward to it.
ZAHR: I don't know about that.
HANNITY: Last question. Will you vote for Hillary if she's the nominee, Amer?
ZAHR: I plead the Fifth Amendment.
SCHOEN: I think we'll be all together.
HANNITY: Why don't you answer? That's a no. Say no.
SCHOEN: Amer, you'll be with us.
ZAHR: I'm not a supporter of Hillary Clinton. I don't think I will.
SCHOEN: We'll talk privately.
HANNITY: Up next tonight on "Hannity" --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENKINS: If this Congress and the next president do not take an action to secure this border with Mexico and enforce the immigration laws, every county in America will become a border county.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: A dire warning from a sheriff in Maryland. He joins us next, along with A.J. Delgado and Bo Dietl. And you'll also hear from a mother who lost her son to an illegal immigrant who killed her son and tortured first, straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This has nothing to do with people in this country that came here through the front door. This has everything to do with people who snuck in this country and continue to take from America, including our children.
And you talked about fear, that illegals are afraid to come out of the shadows. Do you want know what fear is? When somebody reaches into your house and grabs your littlest kid and tortures them, you're afraid of everything for a long time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: Heartbreaking testimony on Capitol Hill yesterday from Laura Wilkerson. Her son Joshua was brutally murdered and tortured by an illegal immigrant. She delivered a very stern warning against sanctuary cities and illegal immigration. Joining us now with reaction is someone who testified alongside Miss Wilkerson. That's Maryland's sheriff Jeff Jenkins. Also with us is conservative columnist A.J. Delgado, former NYPD detective Bo Dietl. Sheriff, you made a very powerful statement, and you said every city is going to be a border city. What did you mean by that?
JENKINS: Well, Sean, what I mean was I've been to the border. I saw the impact of illegal immigration on the border counties. So I truly believe that if we do now seal the border, build the wall, start to enforce the laws the way they're written, every county will become a border county.
HANNITY: A.J., this has become such a big issue in the campaign, no mother -- I interviewed this woman yesterday. My heart goes out to her. Her son tortured and murdered by illegal immigrants. We're doing nothing to secure the border. And no mother should have to go through this. Why is it political will up to this point to solve that problem?
A.J. DELGADO, CONSERVATIVE COLUMNIST: It's hard to hear her testimony, Sean, without getting emotional. When you think about it, really, because of illegal immigration, Josh Wilkerson never got to go to his prom, never going to go a baseball game again, he's never going to walk down the aisle. His life ended because of illegal immigration.
And I blame all of us because we're all to blame for not standing up to politicians and saying enough already, enough of this illegal immigration for cheap labor, or your political correctness. When are we finally going to stand up for the Josh Wilkersons, for the Kate Steinles in San Francisco and say enough already, our children, American children deserve to be safe. And there is just this pressure of the political correctness of it that you just can't say that. People are dying, people are being victimized. It cannot continue.
BO DIETL, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: You know, Sean, with these sanctuary cities, you know, this is something that has happened around this epidemic.
HANNITY: Those cities are openly defying the law of the land.
DIETL: Right. And they're not turning them over to ICE when they're arrested. You got guys that are four, five times arrested. It's an epidemic going on in, and the sheriff will verify this. If you look at statistics of rapes across this country, young girls under 14 years old that are being raped by these punks and these gang members across this country, if we don't do something, this is a real epidemic.
And then when you capture them, then all of a sudden you turn them over and they let them go. Then, like I told you on your show the other night, if they say they've been here since 2014 they let them go. This is so ridiculous. And this stands out right now. Why? Look, I don't care if you like Trump or not Trump, but I will guarantee you, I know 35 years, we will stop sanctuary cities. We will stop this immigration. We will build a wall. And America needs it. You don't have to be a Republican or a Democrat to understand we're being raped in this country by illegal aliens, and our kids are victims.
HANNITY: Sheriff, I sat through a briefing with Governor Perry at the time, at the border, 642,000 crimes including rapes and murders against Texans in an eight year period. This is no small amount of crime we're talking about.
JENKINS: No, it's not, Sean. Each and every one of these crimes is avoidable. If we had taken action as far as enforcement, at least creating a law at the border, some sort of enforcement effort at the very highest levels, all this is unavoidable. Just in Frederick County in 2014, we had eight cases where rapes occurred, victims between the ages of five and 12 by people in my county illegally.
HANNITY: A.J., if you look at the polls, it seems like America has come around to Trump's position. How big an issue in the campaign?
DELGADO: It's the biggest issue in the campaign. I think the American public finally realizing, that is why you've seen this huge amount of support for Donald Trump. And it's only growing. No matter what your background or even political philosophy, the facts are what they are, and the American deserve to be safe. Let's unite behind the ideal of the wall and enforcing our laws. That's it.
HANNITY: And coming up, we have a very important "Question of the Day." We need your help. That is next, straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HANNITY: All right, time for our "Question of the Day." So do you agree with the people of Wisconsin and New York that the candidate with the most delegates should win the GOP nomination? We want to know what you think. Go to Facebook.com/SeanHannity, @SeanHannity on Twitter, let us know what you think.
That is all the time we have left this evening. As always, thanks for being with us. We'll see you back here tomorrow night.
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