Criminal behavioral experts analyze Las Vegas massacre

This is a rush transcript from "The Story," October 5, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, "THE STORY" HOST: There is brand-new reporting tonight that reveals that the Las Vegas shooter may have had a plan for a second attack, and possibly, a car bombing. Paddock wanted to make it out of there alive, we know that now, so what's his plan and who was helping him? I'm Martha MacCallum, and that is where "They Story" starts tonight as we continue to dig through the wreckage of what happened on Sunday night. This is a brand-new video that shows the chaos that was literally scattered everywhere, looking down at the scene at of what was left. You can see that's just horrific, mad dash to survive. Here is Sheriff Joe Lombardo.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there any evidence that he planned to survive this and try to escape?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are there any others persons of interest in this investigation?

LOMBARDO: Look at the weapons containing different amounts of Tannerite available, do you think this was all accomplished on his own? Self-value, face value, you've got to make the assumption he had to have some help at some point.


MACCALLUM: We are seeing a lot more layers here tonight. Tony Shaffer and Mark Fuhrman, standing by to take us inside the investigation. But we begin with Trace Gallagher live again tonight in Las Vegas with all of his coverage of this story and the latest breaking details tonight. Hi, Trace.

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Martha. There is certainly a pattern evolving of Stephen Paddock actually going out and surveilling various venues, possibly looking for other targets. There are reports out of Boston that he was doing research on venues there, including Fenway Park, and we have confirmed that, in fact, Stephen Paddock did book a hotel room in Chicago, in August during the Lollapalooza concert. He booked a hotel called the Blackstone, 21 stories high, it overlooks Grand Park, and that was the sight of the Lollapalooza concert. The hotel confirms that he made the reservation but he did not show up for the reservation. And one week before the shooting here at the Mandalay Bay down onto the concert, he also booked a room in downtown Las Vegas at a hotel that overlooked the Life is Beautiful concert.

It is unclear if he was actually inside the hotel room while the concert was going on. The sheriff, as you heard, is now on the record saying he believes that Stephen Paddock had an accomplice. He did not give us evidence to push that forward, but it's interesting because we now know that in the run-up, in the days before the shooting, inside the Mandalay Bay, Stephen Paddock was gambling very heavily for hours at a time, seven, eight hours at a time. And there were reports that he had a female companion with him most of the time. The authorities are now in the process of trying to track down that female companion. And today we learned, as you watched the people running out of the venue during and after the shooting, that firefighters and police officers found some of the victims, miles away. Listen to this.


GREG CASSELL, FIRE CHIEF, CLARK COUNTY NEVADA: We also had people jump the fence, break through the fences, and get into the airport property. They were laying in between the runways, trying to take cover because those areas that are carved out between the runways and the taxiways, and then we had reports of gunshots fired at the airport. So, there's another example of, we had a lot on our hands, a lot we thought was escalating. When it was really contained, but we just didn't know.


GALLAGHER: Speaking of a lot of their hands, we should note, finally, that those aviation fuel containers on McCarran Airport's property, the reports came out that they were hit with bullets. That is accurate, they were hit. Whether or not they were targeted still is unclear, but he certainly had the capacity to target those aviation fuel-holding canisters, though they are double steel wide. So, experts say it will be very difficult for a bullet to penetrate them. Martha.

MACCALLUM: Trace, thanks so much. So, here now with more, Lieutenant Colonel Tony Shaffer, a CIA Trained Intelligence Operative, he has been in contact with his sources in law enforcement; and former LAPD Detective and Fox News Contributor, Mark Fuhrman. Gentlemen, good evening. You have been with us throughout this process, and today, as I said, there a number of other layers that we are peeling back here to tell this story. Tony, what's the latest that you're hearing?

LT. COL. TONY SHAFFER, TRAINED INTELLIGENCE OPERATIVE, CIA: Well, look, the patterns we've been talking about, Martha, are now emerging. Remember, we started this journey two days ago, three days ago now, and what we've been talking about, about something larger probably being there is emerging. This is like a singularity, like a black hole. You can't necessarily see what's inside, but we can sure see what's going on around it. There are some clues here, the sheriff has put out there, which I think we have to pay very close attention to. First, the radicalization statement: two days he made the statement, during the press conference, a spontaneous utterance about this issue. That's not been resolved or addressed.

Secondly, they announced a global investigation now ongoing for people who may have been involved and help him. That talks about a network, that means there's something, either a criminal network or a terror network, but there's something else there. And third, to the other point of the fact now that they clearly said there is evidence and they know more than they're saying for obvious reasons. They don't want to give away any leads they're trying to work. Other people were probably involved at least helping him, possibly even in the room that night, and we just don't know what happened because it took SWAT an hour from the initial notification to break that door down. A lot of things could happen in that hour of missing time.

MACCALLUM: Absolutely. Mark, the suggestion that he had some kind of plan to get away, you know, we looked at this from the beginning as, you know, just a horrific suicide plot, what would ultimately end in a suicide plot, but now there's evidence that he wanted to get away. And you have to wonder about the $100,000 he sent to the Philippines, whether or not that was money that he was sending ahead and that was where he was headed. The Sheriff, Lombardo, said that there was -- you know, it would've been sort of a superman type move, the way that he hadn't rigged to get out of there. What do you make of all that?

MARK FURHMAN, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR AND FORMER LAPD DETECTIVE: Well, we really have to go back to the homicide scene itself, where the detectives are. And you kind of look at the scene, and they have to actually isolate themselves to actually concentrate on this. Quite possibly, he might have had a getaway bag, a bag with ammo, a handgun, some money, close to a door, someplace close to an exit. That could've been an indication that he's going to try to get away. But when you look at this scene, 23 firearms, 12 assault rifles, 12 bump fire stocks, all of this ammunition.

You know, by himself, could it be possible? Absolutely. Did they find some kind of unknown fingerprints, DNA, or trace evidence on some of the rifles or someplace in the room that he had contact with that they can't identify? Quite possibly. The detectives are working the scene inside, while other detectives are working the outside scene and all of the follow- up. So, the sheriff is probably concentrating on answering some of the questions with the suspicions that are coming out from the nucleus of this investigation, not the periphery.

MACCALLUM: Yes. And we know now, Tony, that he sent the girlfriend to the Philippines, and there's some other woman that he is spending time with at the gambling tables. I mean, there are few places in the world where there are more cameras than in a casino.

SHAFFER: Precisely.

MACCALLUM: So, you know, there's no way that this woman wasn't picked up on a number of those cameras, right?

SHAFFER: I'm very anxious to see that very footage as well as him moving things around. I mean, he's not a physical specimen -- you know, he's not Mr. Atlas. He very likely had someone moving stuff around. And like Mark said, you're talking about dozens of weapons. These things are not light, especially when they're actually, you know, full of loads of ammunition. So, we have to understand, and I, you know, do hope, because, if not soon, you're going to have other people filling that space -- that information space.

I hope they release this tape showing all of the things we're talking about. And most important, the information I have is that there was some tape of this guy in the room itself which it talks about the motivation issue. Which, again, I think people are very anxious to find out what exactly his motivation was for doing this. Let me hit that really quick, very clearly, we talked about it two days ago, three days ago, the first day we were together, Martha, about the fact that this target was selected. He very clearly went about detailed target selection to pick this venue after all the places he could have gone to do that.

MACCALLUM: Mark, before we go, you know, just the explosives in the car, there was a lot of money in the car as well, and you talk about a getaway plan, but, you know, does that fit any sort of indication of somebody who wants to, you know, go out in these horrific plays and then kill themselves?

FUHRMAN: Well, certainly it does, but it can also work the other way. He could've made multiple reservations looking for the greatest opportunity, having fallback plans and two other places. He could've also attempted to do something with the car and a car bomb before and not really have the opportunity or the knowledge or actually the positioning of the vehicle. So, he abandoned that idea and then he went to the hotel room and started bringing in the weapons over a two, three-day period.

MACCALLUM: Tony, before we go, are we going to figure out what happened here, do you think?

SHAFFER: Look, I think all the pieces were there. I think there are reasons why law enforcers are hanging back. As Mark talked about that they are focusing on the nucleus, you've got the FBI and other intelligence agencies looking overseas. This is not over yet. There are a lot of pieces out there that need to be cleared up.

MACCALLUM: Absolutely. Gentlemen, thank you, as always. Coming up next night tonight on THE STORY, this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She had no intentions of looking, ignore, acknowledging that there was a firearm in our store.


MACCALLUM: More questions for the gunman's girlfriend. What was she going to do with the $100,000 in the Philippines? Was she setting up a getaway potentially? We're going to talk to two former FBI behavioral experts. What she was talking about in that sound bite with that man is very interesting too, let's stick around for that. Also, growing calls to ban bump stocks. That is gaining steam tonight on Capitol Hill, and even the NRA says they are open to the idea. Former Congressman Jason Chaffetz joins us here. Plus, as President Trump calls for unity, many critics are playing the race card as a motive for the massacre. We are going to debate that straight ahead when we come back.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We stand together to help you carry your pain. You're not alone. We will never leave your side.


MACCALLUM: Those are just some of the beautiful faces of the innocent people who were killed on Sunday night, and we remember them throughout this whole process as we try to figure out what happened here. The investigation continues. There are reports that the killer planned more attacks, including a car bombing, and that continued questions, obviously, about Marilou Danley are piling up. Fox News chief intelligence correspondent Catherine Herridge joins me from Washington. Good evening, Catherine.

CATHERINE HERRIDGE, FOX NEWS CHIEF INTELLIGENCE CORRESPONDENT: Martha, Stephen Paddock had significant mobility issues and we understand it's a real puzzle for investigators because he managed to move so many weapons and ammunition into the hotel room, and load explosives into his vehicle. Another issue is how he moves between firing positions on the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay Hotel, and whether the guns were preloaded, and he simply swapped them out to save time. The sheriff and his team addressed some of the issues at the last news conference.


LOMBARDO: Do you think this was all accomplished on his own? Self-value, face value, you've got to make the assumption that he had to have some help at some point.


HERRIDGE: The sheriff said Paddock had an escape route. And based on evidence that's not public at this point, Paddock did not intend to commit suicide on the 32nd floor of the hotel. But the escape plan was so elaborate, it suggested Paddock would need help at some point. The search warrant on Paddock's vehicle, found in the hotel parking lot, found their ammunition and explosives suggesting the assault was meant to have two phases. Inside his car, 10 pounds of ammonium nitrate, which is an accelerant, 50 pounds of Tannerite, used in homemade exploding targets, as well as 1600 rounds of ammunition.

The AP reporting tonight, investigators are looking at the possibility, he planned other attacks possibly, a car bombing. One of Danley's close family members told investigators that they believe Paddock was unstable and "made them extremely nervous." But reports tonight suggest that law enforcement had found no evidence to suggest so far, his mental health had deteriorated to a point that he would take his own life. There's really no word tonight on whether Danley will be questioned again by the FBI, but her lawyers said she is voluntarily cooperating, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Catherine, thank you very much.

HERRIDGE: You're welcome.

MACCALLUM: Here more tonight, Mary Ellen O'Toole, is retired Senior FBI Profiler and is currently the director for forensic studies at George Mason University; and Tim Clemente, former FBI counterterror agent, both are experts into digging into the criminal and trying to figure out this kind of awful situation. Good evening to both of you. Mary Ellen, let me start with you. As you look at this, tonight, with what we know now, what really stands out to you the most?

MARY ELLEN O'TOOLE, RETIRED SENIOR PROFILER, FBI: Well, what really stands out is the behavior that's becoming more and more consistent, and that is that this is someone that was incredibly private to the point, maybe, or even being somewhat paranoid. He didn't value human relationships. Those weren't important to him. He was able to sustain his plan quietly for, probably, for a very long time. And at the very end of all of this, to suggest that he would have opened up this plan and brought somebody else it is inconsistent with what we have seen thus far. That's not to suggest though that he didn't physically need somebody else's help to move equipment from one location to another, but for him to open up this plan and everything that he intended to do with as private as he was and as suspicious as he was of other people, it really just makes no sense.

MACCALLUM: Yes. I mean, that's a fascinating point. And it's possible that he just paid somebody. You know, if you help me move this stuff -- and they didn't know was in the boxes or they don't want to know what was in the boxes but they were happy to take the money -- that's a plausible explanation. Tim, you say that you really have to look at the last 11 months, that that is the period during which he accumulated 33 of these weapons. So -- and obviously, something happened, something snapped. This man had some reason why he wanted to accumulate these weapons and kill all of these innocent people that we just saw. Those months, what do you want to know?

TIM CLEMENTE, FORMER COUNTERTERROR AGENT, FBI: Well, Martha, it's clear that there was a plan in place, how long the plan was to do this act from a hotel room on the crown of people is unknown. Hopefully, we will find that out. But clearly, since October of last year, he started amassing a large number of weapons, especially semiautomatic rifles, and a lot of ammunition for a particular act. This may not have been what he started out planning, but clearly, it's what he did plan and execute, and it is a tragic, horrific event. And Mary Ellen just said that it doesn't make sense, some of what we're trying to look for.

This is was what would clearly be defined as a senseless act, and so we can't always look for logic and sense in the behavior we're looking at. This individual was radicalized in some way, and when I say that, I don't mean necessarily a radical Islamist or radical leftists, or anything like that. It's just that something turned him away from society to the point that he could look down in a crowd of people and see them merely as targets. And that's something that may have happened prior to October when he started amassing these weapons in 2016 or it may have been something that evolved very slowly over the last year or more in that period of time.

MACCALLUM: Just sticking with you for a second, Tim, because I know you talked about this earlier and he talked about this earlier. You do think that it's possible that he could have been radicalized by ISIS or some political belief or something that made him snap, something specific like that.

CLEMENTE: Martha, we cannot rule it out. I know the FBI has clearly said they have no connection to Islamic terrorism or any international groups. That just means the evidence hasn't been found yet. It's not that it's not necessarily there. There have been people in the United States, in Germany, in Italy, that have been recruited by ISIS or have fallen prey to ISIS's propaganda and become ISIS wives or brides, become fighters for ISIS, and have volunteered themselves to do acts for ISIS. When you look at their life, they're not in any relation to the Muslim world prior to this, no relation to even the Middle East or to what ISIS is allegedly fighting for, and yet they somehow come from a private life in the Midwest, in the United States or, in one case, in Italy, a young girl that converted her entire Catholic family over to Islam just to fight for ISIS.

MACCALLUM: Unbelievable. I want to play one, you guys in the control room, just one of the sound bites on Eric Paddock, and get Mary Ellen to just give us their thoughts on the brother.


ERIC PADDOCK, BROTHER OF STEPHEN PADDOCK: Was he an angel? Of course, he wasn't an angel. Did he (BLEEP) about people that annoyed the crap out of him? Of course, he did.


MACCALLUM: Mary, what do you think about him?

O'TOOLE: Well, I think -- frankly, I think it's pretty typical when you talk to family members of someone who's the offender, they see them through a very different lens than anybody else. And so, as an investigator, you're trained to draw circles around people and say, this is the information that I expect to get from a family member, because they're very supportive of someone that they love, and they're very defensive about that person. So, that's not at all unusual. That reaction is, in fact, pretty typical in other cases where the family member just really feels that strong bond.

MACCALLUM: Yes, I keep going back to the father, who was wanted by the FBI, who was a bank robber, whose face was flashed across, you know, every post office in the area, and I wonder if he sought that kind of bizarre, horrible notoriety that his father had through those crimes. But we keep, we keep digging at it. Thank you very much. Thanks, to both of you. Good to see you tonight, Mary Ellen and Tim.

O'TOOLE: You're welcome. Thank you.

MACCALLUM: So, coming up here tonight on "The Story," banning the bump stock, a word, a phrase that none of us really had any familiarity with before the last few days. The powerful NRA, now throwing their support behind a possible new legislation to ban this once little-known accessory. Ed Henry live at the White House with the breaking detail there for us tonight. Plus, Jason Chaffetz's and Zac Petkanas, take on the very hot debate in this country over guns. Plus, despite the president's calls for unity, some are seeking to divide the country even deeper than before.


TRUMP: We will endure the pain together, and we will overcome together as Americans.


MACCALLUM: Breaking tonight, moments ago, President Trump weighing in on the big gun control debate on Capitol Hill. President Trump's saying that he will be looking into the proposed ban of what is called a bump stock. The NRA and Congress both say that they are open to discussing the ban of this gun attachment that allowed Paddock to fire hundreds of bullets in minutes. House Speaker Paul Ryan weighed in earlier today.


REP. PAUL RYAN, R-WIS., SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: I didn't even know what they were until this week, and I'm an avid sportsman. So, I think we're quickly coming up to speed with what this is. Fully automatic weapons have been banned for a long time. Apparently, this allows you to take a semiautomatic and turn it into a fully automatic. So, clearly, that's something that you'd look into.


MACCALLUM: Chief National Correspondent, Ed Henry, at White House tonight with very latest on this. Hi, Ed.

ED HENRY, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Marth, good to see you. Democrats today, openly admitting they want to use this tragedy in Las Vegas to pass all kinds of gun control measures. Republicans, including the White House congressional leaders, largely want to contain this to the regulation of bump stocks, as you suggest. Sarah Sanders, the White House Spokeswoman, saying today, the president is willing to have a conversation on that. But interesting turnabout by the NRA leadership today. Wayne LaPierre and Chris Cox, they actually gave ground on these devices that it can allow someone to fire hundreds of rounds per minute.

The leadership declaring, "The NRA believes that device is designed to allow semiautomatic rifles to function like fully automatic rifles, should be subject to additional regulation." Now, the NRA leaders adding that in 2010, it was actually then-President Barack Obama's Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms that decided not to regulate bump stocks after a Texas company initially sold these as devices that help people with disabilities bump fire from an AR-15 rifle. The federal government decided not to regulate since the device was modifying gun parts and not the machinery of the gun itself. Obviously, they're going to take another look at that. Now, Republicans like Speaker Paul Ryan saying he did not know what a bump stock was until this week, and is open to looking into regulations. So, Democrats are making quite clear they want to use this to go much, much further. Watch.


RYAN: We need to look at how we can tighten up the compliance with this law so that they are -- so that fully automatic weapons are banned.

REP. MIKE THOMPSON, D-CALIFORNIA: If this majority believes that a bump stock prohibition is enough, they've been smoking something.


HENRY: And that is exactly what is worrying conservatives tonight. Democratic Leader, Nancy Pelosi, openly declaring, "I certainly hope that cracking down on bump stocks," is what she called, "a slippery slope that leads to more gun control measures." Then, there's Conservative New York Times columnist Bret Stephens. He today, in an op-ed, called for a repeal of the second amendment, writing that while gun ownership should not be outlawed, "it doesn't need a blanket Constitutional protection, either." Stephens, declaring he doesn't get what he calls the conservative fetish with the second amendment. That's the kind of comments that is setting off alarm bells. Martha?

MACCALLUM: Absolutely. Ed, thank you so much. So here now with more tonight, former Republican congressman, Jason Chaffetz, who is a Fox News contributor, and Zac Petkanas, former senior DNC advisor. Gentlemen, welcome. So it seems like this bump stock ban could probably happen pretty easily, but what Democrats are saying is, there's no way that's going to be enough. What do you think, Jason?

JASON CHAFFETZ, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Nothing is ever easy when congress is involved. But the idea that you are trying to prohibit a weapon from being altered and turning into an automatic weapon, which has been prohibited for decades now, that seems like common sense, and something that I can support. I have five guns. I'm a conceal-carry permit holder. I'm a member of the NRA. And I do think it is reasonable to say, we don't need this tool there. There are other things we can also work on and I think in a bipartisan way, but you're not taking away my guns. And they're about as many guns as there are people in the United States.

MACCALLUM: A lot of guns in the United States, Zac.

ZAC PETKANAS, FORMER SENIOR DNC ADVISOR: Absolutely. Look, and I agree that there are common sense things that the parties can come together on. The bump stock is certainly one thing that we can do. But another thing we can do that has the support of 94 percent of the American public, that has the support of the majority of NRA members, is universal background checks. The other thing we can come together on is ensuring that -- and terrorists, they should not have access to guns. That is something that you almost universally Americans support, Democrats and Republicans. So this should be an opportunity for us to come together.

MACCALLUM: I absolutely hear you. And I think there is an appetite for change, and change that you guys can probably agree on as you say. But you look at what happened -- this particular situation, right, if you couldn't buy a bump stock, and he bought something like 23 of them, we have a tape of a guy that he walked into his shop and wanted to know how it would work, and how it would adjust, and how fast would make his machine gun, which is just horrifying. He obviously had something wrong with him but was never picked up. Wasn't treated for mental illness as far as we know. So there are so few ways to stop someone like him short of taking the gun out of their hand.

CHAFFETZ: And we're not going to be banning guns under the second amendment. There's no way that is possible going to happen.


CHAFFETZ: Well, that's a ridiculous idea. We have a constitutional right to do this. I, as a gun holder, my wife has a conceal-carry permit, we feel safer when we have guns at our homes. The bad guys, they don't pay attention to the rules. He still broke the law on multiple accounts. It would have maybe slowed him down and not have the bump stock. And I wish somehow, someway, I could go back in time and solve this and the one in Colorado, and in Connecticut, and the other ones that have happened, but let's do the things that will actually work, like work on mental health. I mean, most states will populate the national database with those that can distinguish right from wrong, but there are still states today.

MACCALLUM: But President Trump removed a piece of legislation that was put in place by President Obama that would have cracked down on mental health, people who can't make a decision for themselves fell under that category. Does he need to reverse that?

CHAFFETZ: I want the state to figure out who's going to populate that list, and that's going to be debate you have to do on the state level. But they should be in that national database after what happened in Connecticut. I worked with Governor Herbert in Utah and we populated that database, so you can't go across state line.

MACCALLUM: Zac, what other solution do you like?

PETKANAS: Look, this is the problem, I think, and I agree with almost everything that you're saying. This is the problem though with the patchwork of legislation. We have, for example, with background checks, why do we need them universal and not this.

MACCALLUM: Well, the only place there are no background checks are the private sale.

CHAFFETZ: Yeah, you have to have a background check.

MACCALLUM: Stephen Paddock had a background check.

PETKANAS: Yes. But there are various levels of background checks. So for example you could go in Virginia which has weaker background checks, and may be funneled to states with stronger guns safety measures in states like New York. We need something that's universal so that you can't go to another state.

MACCALLUM: A registry. A federal registry?

PETKANAS: No one is talking about a federal registry. What we are talking about is ensuring that everybody goes through the same checks to make sure that everyone is comfortable with them having a weapon that can do things like we've seen in Las Vegas, and like we see.

CHAFFETZ: They already did these background checks. You already have to go. You've go to an FFL, a federal firearms licensee, and you have to get a background check.

MACCALLUM: But Zac, it didn't stop Stephen Paddock. He had background checks. He went to all -- he bought them on-line, he went all over the place, and had background checks. And you look at the Sandy Hook shooter, he took his mother's gun. I mean, it's so infuriating, but so difficult to stop these.

PETKANAS: But this is, I think, the fallacy. Not any one single piece of legislation or one measure is going to stop all shootings from happening. But what we do know is things that work. So the terrible sort of patchwork of background checks that we have now, they stopped 2.8 million sales of guns from going forward. We need to make sure that all of the states are covered with the same kind of protection that all Americans support.

MACCALLUM: Thank you very much. Big topic, and it's going to be going on for a long time after this in Las Vegas. So coming up tonight, a new threat churning in the Caribbean, tropical storm Nate is looking like it's going to drum up to a hurricane as it heads towards the gulf area this weekend, if you can believe that. We'll show you where that's going to go and when. And President Trump urging unity following the Las Vegas massacre, but some suggesting that the issue of mass shooting is not being addressed because of who the perpetrator was. That debate after this break.



TRUMP: In the months ahead, we will all have to wrestle with the horror of what has unfolded this week, but we will struggle through it together. We will endure the pain together, and we will overcome together as Americans.


MACCALLUM: President Trump earlier this week calling for unity in the face of this week's tragedy, but clearly some people did not take that message to heart. A new op-ed on CNN's website suggests that the country doesn't address the contributing factors to mass shooting because this is, quote, a white man's problem. The author arguing that the issue would be handled differently if the perpetrators were brown or black, she writes. Joining us now, Gianno Caldwell, a Republican political analyst and Fox News contributor, Wendy Osefo, is political commentator and professor at Johns Hopkins University. Welcome to both of you. Good to have you here this evening.

Troublesome. You know, I read through this post on CNN, this article that she wrote, and she basically makes the argument that this is handled differently because the perpetrators are usually white, and if they were brown, they would be considered terrorists and there would be, you know, a question of them going against American values, and that these are handled differently. Gianno, let me start with you, what do you think?

GIANNO CALDWELL, REPUBLICAN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think it's a fallacy. I think it's politicizing something that is a very serious issue in our country. I'm saddened to see so much politics playing when this Las Vegas tragedy happened, immediately after, when the news began to break, we saw that. You know, me being from Chicago, I see these strategies on a regular basis, 529 people shot since 2017, murdered, rather, in Chicago. During Memorial Day weekend, my younger brother was in a car with two of his friends on the Southside of Chicago when two male individuals walked up to the car and riddled it with 25 bullets. My younger brother lived, thankfully, but his best friend died in his arms.

And then, we have this conversation about comprehensive gun-control, and its benefits, and how it would prevent tragedies like this. And I look at Chicago every day and I notice that it has had the most comprehensive gun- control laws on the book of any city, and yet it did not prevent my brother's best friend dying his arms. And you know what, my brother, I've talked to him the other day, and he's a gun license holder. He said his biggest regret is not having a gun to prevent the shooting, the murder of his best friend. This has become very troubling for anyone on the left to make this a political issue.

MACCALLUM: Wendy, what do you think?

WENDY OSEFO, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I don't think it's a political issue. I just think we have to look at what the data says and how the data supports this narrative. We have this study from 1982 to 2012 where we examine 66 cases of mas shootings, of those 66 cases, 44 of them were committed by a white man. So we have this empirical evidence to suggest that this whole narrative of the lone wolf is something that we have continued to perpetuate. So it's necessarily the data but how we characterize it. Whether we look at James Wolf, or Colorado, or when we look at Dylan Roof in Charleston, South Carolina, the first thing that came on the headline was the lone wolf. And it's not a lone wolf mentality, it's actually a pack of wolves. And we have to start looking at it like that because when a Muslim commits the same type of act, what we will say immediately is this was an act of terror. And we see that in the London subway bombing. Before the fact even came out, President Trump tweeted, this is a terrorist attack, and he called.

MACCALLUM: It is terrorism. I mean, no matter what you look at. What happened in Las Vegas is terrorizing. But I don't understand is, why we have to look at everything through that lens. Evil is evil, right? I mean, it really doesn't matter the color of this man's skin. Now I can see where it matters in terms of profiling, in terms of understanding, in terms of figuring out how to get at these issues. I mean, we've seen in Sandy Hook, you know, a kid who sits in his basement all the time playing violent video games and has mental health issues and access to guns, that's a poisonous cocktail right there. And we need to understand it. But this finger pointing and saying, oh, it would be judged differently if they were this or that. I want to just switch gears here for a moment and talk about something in a different context but that is also pointing out, you know, ethnicity and race and dividing us, perhaps, some would say when they see this. Let's play this from Michelle Obama, and then a tweet from Ronna McDaniel.


MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER FIRST LADY: At the state of the union address. One side, all men, all white. On the other side, some women, some people of color. I was always the most embarrassed at the beginning when people would see that.


MACCALLUM: This is Ronna McDaniel, it's unfortunate Michelle would disregard contributions of conservative women and people of all backgrounds with one sweeping false accusation. Gianno, we've got to get quick answers on this from both of you. Thanks. Go ahead, Gianno.

CALDWELL: I mean, Tim Scott, Mia Love, we kind go down a list. More importantly, you look at the people that are on the stage in the 2016 election, we had the most inclusive stage of anyone when you're talking about the Republican side. Ben Carson, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio. The Democrats didn't offer that whatsoever.

MACCALLUM: Carly Fiorina. Wendy, what do you think?

OSEFO: I think the fact that Gianno can actually name them proves Michelle Obama's point. When you talk about diversity.

CALDWELL: No, it doesn't.

OSEFO: Yes, it does, Gianno. Wait, let me answer. I didn't interrupt you. Gianno, I didn't interrupt you. Let's put this in context. She was at a diversity conference. That's what the topic was about. She didn't just pull this narrative out of the wind. She was talking about diversity when it comes to race and gender and she spoke to it. So we have to put it in context.

MACCALLUM: But the underlying facts have to be true. You can just go up stirring up that notion and rebuilding that notion in people's minds.


OSEFO: That's the truth of the matter.

MACCALLUM: I've got to jump out, Gianno and Wendy. Good to see you guys. Thank you, guys.

CALDWELL: Thank you.

OSEFO: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: So breaking news just in, President Trump just summoning the press back to his dinner with military leaders and makes a very provocative statement. We are going to play it for you after this. Trust me, stick around. Quite interesting. Brit Hume will join us to respond right after this.


MACCALLUM: So, moments ago, President Trump was wrapping up a dinner with some military leaders and their spouses at the White House, and briefly addressed reporters and hinted at some sort of oncoming storm. Watch this and see for yourself.


TRUMP: You know what this represents, this could be the calm before the storm. The calm before the storm. We have the world's great military people in this building. (INAUDIBLE) Thank you all for coming.

UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: What storm, Mr. President?

TRUMP: You'll find out.


TRUMP: Thank you, everybody.


MACCALLUM: Fox News senior political analyst Brit Hume joins me now on that, and a possible shakeup in leadership from Democrats in a moment. But you're our senior political analyst, so I need you to analyze.


MACCALLUM: Please analyze. What does that mean?



HUME: Well, the president is giving -- dropping these kinds of hints and suggestions from time to time. And he seems to enjoy the befuddlement of those who are listening at what he says. And of course, he didn't clarify. It sounds as if he's possible he's talking about some kind of military action that would go against North Korea. Remember, just a couple of days ago, Martha, Heather Nauert, the spokeswoman at the State Department, published a tweet that I saw that said that North Korea will not be permitted -- this is not the exact words, this is a gist of it.


HUME: Will not be permitted to acquire a nuclear arsenal. Either will happen diplomatically or by force, the choice is up to North Korea. We thought that was pretty startling. And he put that together with this, maybe he is hinting at something. Now, remember, Martha, the traditional view, long held by every military person I've ever talked to, and anybody else who has looked into the issue is, that military action, although we would unquestionably win any conflict against North Korea, possibly fairly quickly, is not a good option because of the vulnerability to Seoul, which is just a short distance from the DMZ and the North Korea-South Korea border.

Seoul has focused upon it, not nuclear weapons, but conventional weapons, artillery pieces in such numbers that the destruction on Seoul and the loss of human life there, heavily populated area, would be so great that it is unacceptable and means that military action of the kind we might contemplate is really -- it can't be on the table. Now, it's possible that with weaponry of today that didn't exist before, some kind of military way of dealing with this has been devised, and some plan is out there that the president is hinting at. But I don't know anything about that. And I haven't seen any reporting to the effect that that exists. And in this leaky city it's hard to believe something that dramatic could be developed in total secrecy, but there you are.

MACCALLUM: Yeah. I have the same impression. Of course, we don't know what he meant because he didn't say. But he's standing there with military leaders, and sort of dropping something like that, North Korea is the first thing that comes to mind. The only other subjects that I thought about was, you know, that some sort of shake up on his staff, whether it be the secretary of state position -- I mean, there's been so much flying around.

HUME: Why would you link that, though, to a comment about, you know.

MACCALLUM: No, my first pick would be North Korea.

HUME: Yeah. Who knows.

MACCALLUM: Who knows is right.

HUME: And doesn't he loves to keep us guessing.

MACCALLUM: And he loves to keep us guessing, exactly. I want to play a sound bite over on the Democratic side from Representative Sanchez talking about the leadership and get your thoughts on it. Let's play that.


UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't want to single her out.

UNINDENTIFIED MALE: All three of them?

UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think that it's time to pass the torch to the new generation. They're all of the same generation. And, again, their contribution to the congress and to the caucus are substantial, but I think there comes a time when you need to pass that torch, and I think it's time.


MACCALLUM: We need a quick answer here. What do you think?

HUME: Martha, if you look at the electoral wreckage the Democrats have experience in recent elections in the house, in the senate, the governorship, and now the presidency, it's completely understandable. Indeed, it seems almost inevitable that people would be looking around casting a bet for new leaders. And the senior leaders of the Democratic Party are pretty old. Nancy Pelosi is way up in her 70's, and Joe Biden, who still thinking about president, is old. Hillary Clinton is old. So it's probably on their minds, although, I'm sure she's backed off by now.

MACCALLUM: Brit, thank you very much.

HUME: You bet.

MACCALLUM: We will see what the storm is all about. Thanks for being here. Quick break and we will be right back.


MACCALLUM: OK, here we go. Another newly formed storm that could strengthen into a hurricane and hit the already-battered gulf coast this weekend. We sincerely hope that that doesn't happen. Tropical storm Nate, we're up to N now in the alphabet, is turning the waters near Honduras. Forecasters say it could reach working status as early Saturday morning. Expected to make landfall at this point, but it's a long way out, somewhere between New Orleans and Alabama as a category one on Saturday, or early Sunday morning. We're going to continue to keep a close eye on it on air and on as well. So we leave you with that. Thanks for joining us tonight, everybody. That is our story for tonight, to be continued at 7 PM tomorrow. Have a terrific night. Tucker Carlson is up next.


Content and Programming Copyright 2017 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2017 CQ-Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of CQ-Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.