Dr. Gorka: Threat of terror is here and it is real
Expert who provides counter-terrorism training to FBI weighs in on 'The Kelly File'
This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," December 3, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MEGYN KELLY, HOST: Welcome back, everybody. I'm Megyn Kelly. That news conference was remarkable. With the authorities not giving us new information in terms of what exactly happened, but giving us a lot of new information in terms of the details. We have known -- we have known that 14 people were killed. Tonight we learn that 12 of them were county employees. We have known now that 21 were injured. Eighteen of those were county employees. They set the scene inside that room. For the first time. That 91 people were invited. 75 to 80 were present when the gunmen showed up. It was a department of public health event.
They were starting out with business in the morning, transitioning to a Christmas Party. There was a Christmas tree inside the room. Christmas trees on all of the tables. They were trying to have a celebration. Of Christmas. Instead, 23 days before Christmas, 14 of them would die. The police officer you just heard from at the end Lieutenant Mike Madden who was the first responders talked about how they train for this. But they could never imagine what actually happened. They are trained to experience sensory overload but it was that and more. He said it was immediately evident upon arriving at the scene that the reports they had been hearing of an active shooting situation were true.
Victims who were obviously dead outside the conference room. The situation inside the conference room, he said, was surreal. Talking about the smell of gun powder. The fire alarms going off. The sprinklers going off. The people wailing in pain who were suffering. Those down the hall who were terrified, not knowing what was happening or whether there were more shooters in his efforts to coax them, to come to the police and how it took the courage of one person to actually come forward and then that opened the floodgates of the people who knew these police would protect them. And protect them they did. You heard the bit at the end there was no manifesto found on-site. There had been a question about that and we're looking at video on screen right of the police escorting people out of the building. Have you seen this tape yet? You hear what the cop says?
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you. Thank you. I'll take a bullet before you do, that's for damn sure. Just be cool, okay?
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KELLY: Relax. I'll take a bullet before you do. That's for damn sure. Okay. Tonight we have learned the identities of the 14 people murdered by their co-worker and his wife during the Christmas Party. The youngest victim, 26 years old. The oldest, 60. Police have also revealed that this crime was anything but spontaneous. Saying the killers had a huge assortment of weapons and a virtual bomb factory at their homes. Still we don't know whether it was terror. Police say, this evil husband and wife couple fired off some 75 rounds at their victims inside the Christmas Party conference room. They left three rigged together pipe bombs at the party. With a remote control detonating device that apparently malfunctioned.
They fired another 76 round at the cops during a fierce gun battle. They had more than 1600 rounds of unused ammunition in their rented SUV when police killed them. Meantime, at a family home, police found 12 pipe bombs, tools for making more, and an additional 3,000 rounds of ammunition. All of this combined with their use of tactical gear makes it clear this couple was ready to kill and the carnage could have been much worse. In moments tonight, we will be joined by Dr. Sebastian Gorka, who provides counterterrorism training to the FBI and by former Islamic extremist Maajid Nawaz.
But we begin tonight with Trace Gallagher reporting from San Bernardino, California. Trace?
TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: And Megyn, now the police confirmed the Associated Press that Syed Farook was in fact watching ISIS propaganda on-line and was in fact in contact with people the FBI had under investigation for terrorism. The next step is for them to find out exactly how deep these contacts were. Were these people, these groups, involved in any type of planning? The FBI has long said, this was a very well-planned event. The question now is, was there any outside planning? Did these suspects have any training? Were they getting any funding? And those answers might come in some of the evidence that was taken out of the home of the killers over the past 24 hours.
We have seen all kind of electronic equipment coming out. We are talking about computers, and cell phones, and experts say that would give police some type of idea of exactly when these conversations were going on, how long they were going on, and maybe how long the planning stage might have lasted. Because the firepower you just listed, Megyn, was so extensive, police were actually concerned or at least convinced that this might not have been the original target. The Christmas Party wasn't the original target and that somehow the killers got off track and they were planning for a much bigger attack and they certainly had the firepower to do so.
But we have also learned that in the weeks before this attack, there was a confrontation between Syed Farook and one of his co-workers. The co- worker was deeply devout Christian and there was an argument between them that got very heated, says the co-workers wife, about Islam, about whether Islam was a peaceful religion. That co-worker was among the 14 who were shot and killed. I just want to, for the viewers who missed that amazing press conference at the top of the hour, Megyn, it started right before "The Kelly File" went on the air and for those who didn't see Lieutenant Mike Madden, he grew up here in San Bernardino, he is not even a street cop anymore. He was an administrative cop. He was on his way to lunch when he got the call. And he said he had to go in and he said it, really summed it up saying, that look, these people were celebrating Christmas and the next thing you knew, they were dealing with death. I'm not sure if we have the soundbite. But we have Mike Madden -- I want you to hear what he said right at the top of the news conference. Listen to this.
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MADDEN: I tell you that, it was something that, although we trained for it, it is something that you're never actually prepared for. It was unspeakable. The carnage that we were seeing. The number of people who were injured and unfortunately already dead, and the pure panic on the face of those individuals that were still in need and needing to be safe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: And in every tragedy there is irony. There were 14 people who were killed, Megyn. Six of them were women. Eight were men. One of the men was the father of six. One of the women had escaped as a child Islamic extremism in Iran. And finally, we should note that police are very interested in this trip that Syed Farook took to Saudi Arabia in the early spring -- Megyn.
KELLY: We are learning a lot more about him today as well. Trace, thank you. The trip to Saudi Arabia. The trip to Pakistan. He was apparently born to two Pakistani parents as was his wife. And the wife is a whole story unto herself. We will get to her in a minute.
The FBI is now taken over this investigation. And my next guest just happened to have been with the FBI in Los Angeles while this attack was unfolding.
Dr. Sebastian Gorka provides counterterrorism training to the FBI and Special Forces. He serves as the Major General Matthew C. Horner, distinguished chair of Military Theory at Marine Corps University. He has a fascinating website as well. TheGorkaBriefing.com. In short, Dr. Gorka is the real thing. Doctor, thank you for being here. You were on the program ten days ago saying, we're on our own. That it's going to happen. And today as we sit at 9:16 p.m. Eastern Time, we are still being told it might not be terror. It might, it might not be.
DR. SEBASTIAN GORKA, MARINE CORPS UNIVERSITY: I think that discussion is over. If the report that your colleague just gave us, that there is confirmation of not only that this individual was accessing ISIS Jihadi propaganda. But also those in contact with individuals who had previously been investigated for connections to Jihadi groups like ISIS or al Qaeda, I think that train has left the station. You heard the Lieutenant himself, the first officer on the scene, say unequivocally, this was not a rogue incident. This isn't a question of somebody who had, you know, an individual grievance with a colleague or who had some kind of psychotic wreak. Everything we are hearing reinforces that this was a well-prepared plan by people who have an ideological commitment to holy war, to Jihad in the name of Allah, and that's what they did yesterday in that government building.
KELLY: We still like to believe that the FBI would be on to somebody like this. Somebody who is communicating with suspected extremists. Somebody who is building bombs in his apartment, in his house. Many of them. Somebody who is arming himself to the gills. Along with his wife who he just picked up over in Saudi Arabia, came back and married her. And we want to believe that, you know, people like you are monitoring these people and will know whether they are getting ready to do something like this. But it's not true.
GORKA: Well, look, the fact is, I work very closely with the FBI. I've worked closely with the NYPD. These organizations are doing incredible work. Look at the fact that in the last 20 months, we have killed or arrested 82 ISIS suspects. ISIS supporters on U.S. soil. That is through the amazing work of our federal state and local law enforcement and our intelligence community. But it is very, very challenging. The report that I mentioned previously, that my company has just published on ISIS as a domestic threat, which your watchers, your viewers can access at ThreatKnowledge.org. We have examples there of an ISIS dialogue who is here in the United States, who was pumping out the kind of material that apparently this mass murderer was consuming. And that individual had 48,000 followers on his social media site. So we've done a great job at intercepting and stopping those people who want to do Jihad here in America. But who knows how many more there are. That's the real question and it is fundamentally a human challenge, a human intelligence challenge.
KELLY: And what is being done to encourage the development of that intelligence by this administration.
GORKA: What is being done to stop it, that's the better question. You've had your own experience in New York with Mayor de Blasio shutting down some of the most incredibly powerful intelligence initiatives of the NYPD. And over the last several years, we have seen this at the federal level. We've had the attempt by the administration to excise, to censor training and the materials used to prepare our operators. For example, the word Jihad should not be used. Should be deleted from power point slides, from materials used for training, because it could be deemed inflammatory to Muslims. This is where you see politics getting into the intelligence cycle where you see censorship distorting the national security function. And I have talked to these people, I talked to our operators, and they are angry, they know that this will endanger Americans if you allow political correctness into our national security mission.
KELLY: And that is where we pick it up with our next guest. Doctor, thank you.
GORKA: Thank you, Megyn.
KELLY: Well, the things that relatives and neighbors are saying about this suspect, Farook, seem to paint a very contradictory picture. His father said he was, quote, "very religious." And a neighbor told reporters that about two years ago he became more devout, growing a beard and wearing religious clothing. Other say, he seemed normal, quite, was living the American dream. And our next guest who was once an extremist himself says, that's exactly the problem. And that the signs of someone going down the path of an Islamic radical may not be as obvious as you think.
Maajid Nawaz is a former Islamic extremist and author of "Radical: My Journey out of Islamist Extremism."
Maajid, thank you very much for being here. We would like to think we would know if we work next in the next county -- you know, for the county, we work next to somebody who is becoming radicalized. But we might not know.
MAAJID NAWAZ, FORMER ISLAMIC EXTREMIST: Actually, most times, Megyn, we don't know. That's the sad state of affairs. It's unfortunate. I mean, what we just heard from policeman Mike Madden, was nothing short of heart breaking. And those first responders deserve medals. The survivors of this atrocity deserve all of the condolences and respect. But we can never predict this. And one of the reasons, if we look back, we have the evidence to indicate exactly from past terrorist attacks what exactly happens here. If you look at 9/11 attackers, many of their passports were found in strip clubs and bars. If you look at the Tsarnaev brothers in the Boston marathon bombers, you find that it was very difficult to predict that these were becoming Islamist theocrats and terrorists. I mean, if you look at just even to this month, if you look to the Paris attacks, evidence indicates that some of the attackers owned bus and were fully integrated in French society --
KELLY: So, the question is, what people are supposed to do? Because we heard reports from one neighbor, she saw some suspicious behavior. She didn't want to report them because she didn't want to seem like a racial profilers.
NAWAZ: Yes. And actually, the evidence points to the fact that those who join terrorist organizations would try to conceal any ostensible sign of religious devotion. Precisely so they are not detected. So, if we're going to look to profiling, I think that ethnic profiling and profiling for overt signs of religiosity would actually miss the target as it has done so in this instance. If you have -- indicates this was indeed a Jihadist attack. I think what we need to start looking at is, psychological factors. We can start looking at ideas that are adopted and behavior.
Now, those sort of ideas we are familiar with, you know, anyone who starts saying things such as, it is a duty, it's incumbent upon Muslims to resurrect the so-called theocratic caliphate. Or somehow is a global war going on against the Islam and Muslims. Or somehow democracy is antithesis to Islam.
KELLY: Uh-hm.
NAWAZ: These are the sorts of ideas that radicals begin to adopt. And if they begin speaking in this way, I'd say to you Megyn, even if they are drinking alcohol and eating pork, if they are speaking in this way, they are a surer sign to radicalization than overt signs of religiosity, which will be concealed by a terrorist.
KELLY: And it is lead out quite well in your book. Thank you, Majid.
NAWAZ: Thank you.
KELLY: Two weeks ago on this broadcast, a former al Qaeda infiltrator turned CIA spy made a chilling prediction that just came true. He is back tonight with a disturbing follow-up.
Plus, is there a terrorist cell still hiding in San Bernardino? That investigation is next.
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DAVID ESPINOZA, WITNESSED SAN BERNARDINO SHOOTOUT: Gunshots. Gunshots. Gunshots. Oh, oh, they are killing that guy.
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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are in pursue of the suspect vehicle, East- bound on San Bernardino Avenue from Richardson. We've got shots fired out the back window.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: East San Bernardino, shots fired! We need a Bearcat! We need medical aid!
(Gunshots)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: We are tonight getting to hear for the first time some of what unfolded on the police scanners during the shootout between the cops and these two suspects yesterday. In 24 hours since that happened, we have learned that the suspects Syed Farook and Tashfeen Malik were husband and wife. They have a six-month-old baby girl. And that when police entered what was supposed to be the couple's happy home, they found what is being described as a, quote, "factory for explosive devices."
Adam Housley is live near that home tonight. Adam.
ADAM HOUSLEY, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Megyn. They were tipped off about that factory or that facility last night here in Redlands. We've learned a lot more today too. When we first got back out here this morning, some of the first information we're getting was, that this woman, this wife, was a bit mysterious to investigators. They were learning a lot about the husband and his family but not a lot about her. As the day has transpired, we're learning more. First of all, they do believe, now, at least they are working on the theory, that's the word to me, that this couple planned on a second hit. That their first hit was a soft target on purpose.
As one terror investigators told me, this is an m.o. for a terrorist attack. They go for the soft target first to make sure they have success. That way if the second target goes awry, the more difficult one, they've already had a success. And so they believe they were intending on hitting a second target. That's the premise is. They also believe that these two may have been married -- not married, may have been engaged in Mecca when they were in Saudi Arabia last year. And the third point I think is very interesting as well, they are now working on the premise that she may have radicalized him.
Which does makes some sense in some ways when you look at all the facts that have been laid out there in trying to connect the dots. And again we were told she was the one shooting out of the back of the car. We do know there was some training involved here. And they were going on that as well. A lot of information Megyn as you know coming out from a lot of different sources, both national and international as they continue to go forward in this case. But for us, the headline for us that came out tonight, is that they believe they were going for a second target -- Megyn.
KELLY: Wow! Adam, thank you.
Joining me now with more, Mia Bloom. She's a professor of Communications at Georgia State University. She is also the author of the book "Bombshell, Women and Terrorism" and she has been studying this issue for years. Mia, thank you so much for being with us tonight. Very happy to have these expertise. She may have radicalized him. How does that sound?
MIA BLOOM, PROFESSOR OF COMMUNICATIONS, GEORGIA STATE UNIVERSITY: You know, this is very consistent, Megyn. We've seen a lot of women who were far more radical than their husbands. And I think this preconceived idea that women are the kinder, gentler sex, is thrown out the window. Because we've seen a lot of very radical women associated with al Qaeda. ISIS. Even Hayat Boumeddiene is allegedly the person who pulled Ahmad Coulibaly into the organization. So, we shouldn't be surprised.
KELLY: He was very devout or then said to radicalize or seems have some signs of getting more religious, more recently.
BLOOM: And I think that it's consistent and maybe temporarily. When he met her, he went to Saudi Arabia twice, first to meet her and her parents, and then also then to get married. It is very likely that the relationship with her is what may have been the tipping point or the spark that radicalized him.
KELLY: What? What kind -- I mean, I've realize we are dealing with a different ideology, but what kind of radical Islamic woman goes on what's - - potentially, very much a suicide mission, when she has a 6-month-old baby girl?
BLOOM: Well, you know, it is interesting, Megyn, it's not just radical Islamic ideologies. We saw this in June of 2014, where Jerad and Amanda Miller, also a couple, shot up two police officers and killed someone at Wal-Mart. So this is not specific to the Islamic organizations. We've seen the couples in a variety of groups. These people were sovereign to the extreme right-wing. So we have radical women in all the groups. But we have also seen within the jihadist groups, whether it's the Chechen Black Widows, or in 2004, a Palestinian woman, suicide bomber Reem Riyashi blew up at Erez crossing and left her child. And In fact, she even posts with the child in her Last Will and Testament Videos. So a lot across a bunch of groups we have these women.
KELLY: You raised a question before the show of whether we might possibly be looking at a cell in San Bernardino. Why do you ask that?
BLOOM: I asked it because the fact that they have 4500 rounds of ammunition. They had body armor, they had 12 pipe bombs. If he was going to attack the community center, he would have just brought the weapons at the first, you know, when he first went there for the party. I wonder if maybe he had an encounter with the Mr. (inaudible) where he had a fight with before and he snapped. He knew he had all the weapons back at his house, went home, got his wife, got the weapons, it doesn't -- for me, make sense. Why he wouldn't have taken the weapons in the first place. I think maybe there might have been a different target, but that -- at the party, he got very upset.
KELLY: Mia, thank you so much for being here. We appreciate it.
BLOOM: Thanks for having me.
KELLY: All the best.
Coming up, the husband of a shooting survivor shares his wife's harrowing story from inside the building. Listen to this.
Plus, counterterrorism experts now saying the kind of devices these suspects left behind are signatures of al-Qaeda. Catherine Herridge is here on that. And then we will speak with Morten Storm, a man who was infiltrated al-Qaeda about the chilling prediction he made on this broadcast, two weeks ago.
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MORTEN STORM, FORMER CIA DOUBLE AGENT INSIDE AL QAEDA: And for that I believe that within the two weeks, next two weeks that we will have a (inaudible) begin. I also believe that a copycat in America will do the best to do what their brothers have done in Europe.
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AARON ELSWICK, NEIGHBOR: They had I guess been receiving packages -- quite a few packages within a short amount of time, and that they were actually doing a lot of work out in the garage. And she was kind of suspicious and was -- wanted to report it, but she said she didn't -- she didn't want to profile.
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KELLY: As more and more neighbors report what they considered to be suspicious activity at the San Bernardino shooting suspect's home. We were learning more about their weapons and other devices they left behind. And as one counterterrorism expert tells Fox News, some of those items appeared to be signatures of al-Qaeda. Joining us in a moment is Morten Storm, the former CIA double agent who infiltrated al-Qaeda, who predicted this kind of attack would happen on U.S. soil almost to the day of yesterday's attacks. But first, Chief Intelligence Correspondent Catherine Herridge is live in Washington with more about what we are learning on the possible terror ties here. Catherine?
CATHERINE HERRIDGE, FOX NEWS CHIEF INTELLIGENCE CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, confirmation tonight, the 12 pipe bombs and hundreds of tools to build IEDs found in the couple's garage and the key data point for investigators is the use of remote control toy car parts. This is a signature designed for al-Qaeda in Yemen and a practice borrowed by ISIS. The online al-Qaeda propaganda magazine inspire includes a how-to guide to build bombs using the toy car parts for the detonator. It can be set off with the controller using line of sight or an app on your cell phone. The sheer number of devices suggests some training and some familiarity with explosives, even though this device found near the scene did not detonate.
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CHIEF JARROD BURGUAN, SAN BERNARDINO POLICE DEPARTMENT: It's my understanding that somehow it was three pipe bombs that were attached together. Somehow attached to this remote control car and it was designed that the remote control device would somehow trigger or set that device off. We don't know if they attempted to do that and it failed or what the story is.
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KELLY: The FBI says the Tsarnaev brothers built pressure cooker bombs using the inspired recipe and also relied on these toy car parts for the detonator to kill at the Boston marathon. The assistant FBI director on scene today telling reporters they are looking for a connection to the al- Qaeda magazine inspired, Megyn.
KELLY: Catherine, thank you.
HERRIDGE: You're welcome.
KELLY: Our next guest infiltrated the al-Qaeda terror organization as a double agent for the CIA. And two weeks ago, he was on this broadcast, predicting that we would see domestic terror attack in U.S. soil within a couple of weeks. Morten Storm is now a terrorism consultant for the International Spy Museum and co-author of Agent Storm: My Life Inside the al-Qaeda and the CIA. Morten, thank you so much for being here and so, the question is, having predicted this, what do you think will happen next?
STORM: Well, I'm almost afraid to say something, because when I do say something, it happens. And I have a feeling that within the New Year, there could possibly be another one in America, possibly two in Europe, and the - - but it is a feeling I have. You know, these people, they are not going to stop. And we have Christmas, that's what they want it destroy. We have celebrations for New Year. These are the things they want to hit us. And in 2016, it's going to be a very bad year for all of us.
KELLY: You can't -- we can't think about the fact that they were having a Christmas party with Christmas trees on the tables and in the room and try to -- and get bewildered about why they would shoot up a room and a bunch of people. That's part of the joy for them. They want to destroy those moments.
STORM: Yes, of course. I mean, I just -- you know, I want to say that in this book here and had this in (inaudible) is 2,818. Prophet Muhammad tells the believers that paradise is under the sword -- under the shade of the sword is paradise for the believers. So -- no wonder that, you know, it's never going to end. You know if these people -- and I used to believe in this. I used to follow this (inaudible). You know, if Islam is, as it is, is very violent, we are facing people who are determined and who believe that paradise is under the shade of the sword.
KELLY: Do you think, Morten, that there is likely to be -- that there are likely to be more people connected to these two in San Bernardino?
STORM: You know, with all the ammunition, do you the explosive and all the preparation, of course they have more than that. They have a network out there. I'm a hundred percent sure about this.
KELLY: How -- we just had our last guest talking about the likelihood that she radicalized him, if that's in fact what happened. Did you ever see that?
STORM: Yes, I have seen women who are (inaudible). In fact, I've sent (inaudible), he ran his whole life to Yemen (inaudible). She also a Croatian converts Muslim. And then she was married first to a Muslim in Great Britain in London. But he wasn't strong enough. He wasn't good Muslim, devout enough. So she divorced him and she want (inaudible) because he wanted to commit (inaudible) jihad. And in fact, after he says, she sent me a letter, thinking of one of them. But I was double agent thinking she said in the letter that she wanted to become, she asked -- she follow for permission to blow herself up and become a suicide bomber.
KELLY: Unbelievable. And some -- I mean, you -- just so the audience, was he was talking about Anwar al-Awlaki's wife, who Morten, helped find who is communicating with him personally after Awlaki was killed and how she could blow herself up and kill more people. Morten, it's always unbelievable talking to you, thank you for being here.
STORM: (inaudible).
KELLY: OK.
STORM: You inspire magazine, as an inspiration to create those pipe bombs. And the strike where (inaudible) and went out of the -- sent me (inaudible) was also killed. He was an (inaudible). He was an American national Pakistani who also -- who was the editor of that magazine now. I'm happy that being a part of taking these people out.
KELLY: Absolutely. Now the CIA and the FBI are doing herculean work in trying to stop these guys, but the manpower, it's not what it needs to be - - Morten, thank you.
We are also getting new information on a search underway for the person who bought the guns used in the attack. It was not one of these two. And when we come back, Congressman Peter King will join us on where this investigation is going, next.
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KELLY: Breaking tonight, reports just coming in that authorities are now looking for a man who bought two of the guns used to kill 14 people in California yesterday. New York Congressman Peter King is a republican and member of both the Homeland Security and Intelligence Committee. It's good to see you tonight, sir. So they are looking for somebody else.
REP. PETER KING, R-N.Y., HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEE: Thank you, Megyn.
KELLY: It wasn't one of these two who bought two of the guns. Does that mean there's another person involved?
KING: It could be or he could be that he was just a person selling guns. You know legally or illegally, it could have been a cash transaction. Whether or not he was involved with them, again, that's all part of this investigation that's going on which -- again, could have many dimensions as it goes forward.
KELLY: What are the odds that this is a cell, that there is some cell in San Bernardino?
KING: You know, Megyn, it is almost impossible to believe that these two could have assembled all of this by themselves, to have that amount of firepower and bombs and long guns and amount of ammunition. So I would think right now that you have to assume that there's others involved. And there are other ramifications, because if that is true, then that could mean as other attacks that are planned. I think that's what the FBI is most concerned about now. Yes, they want to solve this and why they did it, and, but I think also, is this went off by itself or are other attacks planned? Is it coordinated or is it just something that these two, maybe one, two others had, you know, put together.
KELLY: Right.
KING: As if it is coordinated.
KELLY: Because if they had something bigger planned, who else --
KING: Yeah.
KELLY: Who were they planning it with, if anyone? What are they're looking at now? We have heard now that he had sketchy connections with this guy.
KING: Again, you know we are looking at any phone contacts he could have had with people who have shady backgrounds or people who were been suspicious. Who he could have met with, who he dealt with on social media.
KELLY: Well they said, they said he did have contacts with people who are suspect extremists, but the contact happened after the investigations were closed and police have moved on from them, or authorities have moved on from those guys.
KING: Well, in that case, Megyn, maybe they should reopen those investigations. Maybe they should look in. And again, just like, you know, the Tsarnaev brother, he was also cleared in Boston by the FBI. They looked into him and they cleared him. And he went out and turned out to be radicalized. So I think all of this shows the importance of full in-depth investigation. And when you listen to Lieutenant Mike Madden, you realize the outstanding jobs the cops have, but also the challenges they have. And in fact with the FBI and the NYPD and the police have been under siege because they want to carry out surveillance. Who is the one who find what is happening in these communities. Maybe this will be a wake-up call to people who somehow think the cops are spying and snooping when they are doing the type of police work that's essential to keep you and me safe.
KELLY: Congressman, good to see you.
KING: Megyn, thank you.
KELLY: Up next, a chilling story, one woman shared with us about what happened when she was shot in this attack.
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LIEUTENANT MIKE MADDEN, FIRST OFFICE RON SCENE: You know we've taken a lot of hits lately. Some justified. Much of it not justified. And it takes a toll. It takes a toll on all cops because it's hard being -- it's hard being labeled and hard being branded as, you know, being rogue or, you know. And I guarantee you that no cop comes into this job with the mindset that, oh, great. Now I have ultimate power to be corrupt and to violate people's rights. There are cops that go astray. But overwhelmingly, the vast majority of officers, and when I say vast majority, I'm talking 99.5 percent of the officers go out and they do the job to protect the public.
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KELLY: Joining me now with more on that, former L.A. police detective department -- department detective and Fox News Contributor Mark Fuhrman. Mark. Good to see you. Well said. Well said.
MARK FUHRMAN, FORMER LAPD DETECTIVE: Megyn, you know, when I listen to his words, they're so heartfelt and so meaningful. And you can tell they're coming from his heart. But I think everybody should know that right now in America, just to go out in a police uniform takes -- is really an act of courage. The way that the public has demonized the police and I think everybody should realize that I think this shooting in San Bernardino, we realize that we are at war with Islamic jihadist in this country, but the Special Forces, the special ops that are going to fight this war inside the borders of this United States are cops. The cops in uniform, the cops that are in plain clothes, the detectives and the more you demonize them, the less motivated they're going to be able to be the less sure of their actions. And this is going to be a safety issue for the entire country.
KELLY: For all we know this cop was watching, "pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon, a couple weeks ago, and what do we want? Dead cops, when do we want them? Now." You know, that's the context for, you know, how cops have to go on the job these days?
FUHRMAN: It is. And when you think about that, you kind to wonder just who would want to go into an environment like that where you're throwing yourself, you know, from the kettle into the fire. I mean that's crazy. But they do it, and they do it because they're a certain breed of person.
KELLY: And they know as we saw this cop on.
FUHRMAN: And doing something like this.
KELLY: Inside the building saying, "I'll take a bullet." Do we have it? Listen. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Try to relax, everyone. Try to relax. I'll take a bullet before you do, that's for damn sure. Just be cool, OK?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Go ahead, Mark.
FUHRMAN: That's exactly who they are. They don't want medals. They want recognition from their brother officers. They want recognition from their citizens from the victims. They're not looking for some kind of an award or even their name to be.
KELLY: Yeah.
FUHRMAN: To set on the media. They're doing their job.
KELLY: That's it.
FUHRMAN: That's what they are. That's what they do.
KELLY: They want to protect the public.
FUHRMAN: And people better respect them.
KELLY: Mark Fuhrman, thank you. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KELLY: Tomorrow, we'll bring you our survivor story, we told you about. We ran out, but short time tonight with that presser. These are challenging times, folks. Thank you for trusting us as your news source here at Fox. I'm Megyn Kelly, this is "The Kelly File," see you tomorrow.
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